If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Sky.com) NewsFlash Rocket explodes right next to Tel Aviv, Israeli ground troops are preparing to enter Gaza. But what's the latest with Patraeus?   (news.sky.com) divider line 716
    More: NewsFlash, Israeli PM, Tel Aviv, Petraeus, Gaza, Palestinian militants, airstrike, Palestinians, infantries  
•       •       •

9235 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Nov 2012 at 12:33 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


Want to get NewsFlash notifications in email?

716 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-11-15 08:50:36 PM

liam76: Amos Quito: in recognizing the mistakes that were made that caused past sufferings, in accepting that they were not simply the victims of "drive-by-history", but played an active role in it, and in taking responsibility for the role played.

Yeah, this guy totally thinks jews weren't behind the holocaust.



Are you running on full power, liam76? You wits seem a bit dimmer than usual.

Or maybe we're having a problem with basic definitions? Tell you what, you start by defining the following according to LiamSpeak:

1, Jews
2. Holocaust
3. Behind

Thanks.
 
2012-11-15 08:55:16 PM
Do unto others what has been done to you.

The genocide is on the other foot now, right Jews? Wouldnt you just like to put all those filthy, low life Philistines into labor camps, subjugate them, humiliate them? In Israel's eye's they are still Goliath and David is swinging his sling. Perpetual underdog heroes, tiny Israel.
 
2012-11-15 08:57:50 PM

Rocket To Russia: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Armageddon tired of this

/we've re-elected the anti-christ, let's get it over with

Yeah, but that was back in 1984


Bush the Elder was merely the vice-president in 1984.
 
2012-11-15 08:59:12 PM

oukewldave: This is the worst Israeli thread ever. All I see are words. Where are pics of IDF girls?


Do you know how I know you're 12?
 
2012-11-15 08:59:46 PM
Found this quote which seems to sum it up nicely...Link

"The current escalation in Gaza illustrates the point. The course of this conflict is actually fairly clear: Israel and Hamas will pound each other, and when the fighting stops each side will declare "victory." Israel will have degraded Hamas's military capacity, and Hamas will have killed some Israeli civilians, disrupted life in southern Israel, and lived to fight another day. There will be a lull in the violence, and the clock will start ticking until the next confrontation. The idea of making peace -- real, lasting peace -- will not occur to the leaders in the region."
 
2012-11-15 09:00:12 PM
Is it not enough for your Jew haters that every major Muslim power in the world has said that their end game is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth??

Come on people, it's not the politics or whom shot and whom first. Their Prime Objective is to wipe out the Jews. Israel has a right to defend itself. They're the flake salt in a sea of pepper.
 
2012-11-15 09:02:02 PM

Amos Quito: Lunaville: Gwendolyn: Not if they have to take it from someone else.

But they didn't. The land Israel was granted was taken by the British. It was ceded to Israel so that Britain and the USA could avoid taking in so many Jewish refugees.


There were Jewish refugees in 1917?


Uh, yeah. Lots. Ever heard of a little thing called WWI? How about the Russian revolution? Y'know who REALLY liked pogroms? Everybody on every side of those little conflicts in the Jewish part of Russia and Poland.
 
2012-11-15 09:02:47 PM
Anyone have any idea why Hamas picked now (specifically the past week) to provoke this fight?

I'm worried that it's because we reelected a weak president. But if that's honestly the case we're in for a hellish four years.

Anyone have any other guesses? UN posturing? A secret deal to bolster the brotherhood?
 
2012-11-15 09:07:11 PM

Leeds: Anyone have any idea why Hamas picked now (specifically the past week) to provoke this fight?

I'm worried that it's because we reelected a weak president. But if that's honestly the case we're in for a hellish four years.

Anyone have any other guesses? UN posturing? A secret deal to bolster the brotherhood?


Yeah, weak president. Weakly kicked the shiat out of Al Qaeda and weakly waxed bin Laden, weakly stomped Libya's dictator into a mudhole. He's so WEAK.
 
2012-11-15 09:12:58 PM

Frederick: Do unto others what has been done to you.

The genocide is on the other foot now, right Jews? Wouldnt you just like to put all those filthy, low life Philistines into labor camps, subjugate them, humiliate them? In Israel's eye's they are still Goliath and David is swinging his sling. Perpetual underdog heroes, tiny Israel.


I had you marked as "Holocaust denier" for "just asking questions".

Now you are trying to accuse Israel of Genocide despite Palestinians and arabs in general in the area having a population that is growing faster than the jews.

Guess I was right or you are dumber than I thought.


Amos Quito: liam76: Amos Quito: in recognizing the mistakes that were made that caused past sufferings, in accepting that they were not simply the victims of "drive-by-history", but played an active role in it, and in taking responsibility for the role played.

Yeah, this guy totally thinks jews weren't behind the holocaust.


Are you running on full power, liam76? You wits seem a bit dimmer than usual.


Who and what are you exactly talking about there? It had nothing to do with the jews and the holocaust?
 
2012-11-15 09:28:04 PM

Amos Quito: I don't want to see anyone killing anybody, but it irks me to see Israel whining they they have to "defend themselves" while these "defenses" inevitably wind up being vengeance massacres that kill 10/1 if jews get killed it is their fault.


FTFY.

Night!
 
2012-11-15 09:28:31 PM

Leeds: Anyone have any idea why Hamas picked now (specifically the past week) to provoke this fight?

I'm worried that it's because we reelected a weak president. But if that's honestly the case we're in for a hellish four years.

Anyone have any other guesses? UN posturing? A secret deal to bolster the brotherhood?


I would guess because of a few of those things i mentioned above. They have been in a power struggle with the PLO (Fatah in particular) and boycotted the recent elections where The PLO did not have a great showing. So a way to boost their own presence would be to start a dust-up with Israel. That also helps to draw away any attention that the PLO has been getting from the UN.

Second if the Islamic Jihad have been making some gains in power and control in Gaza this would help temper that and show Hamas is still the dominate force in the region. i would also guess that they have to unleash the militants under their control every once in awhile. I can't imagine all the people they have trained for war are too happy to just sit around and twiddle their thumbs.

As for Israel they had to respond. They couldn't ignore them any longer when Hamas decides to get this chippy. I would also imagine that they hope that it will bolster their party in the coming election.
 
2012-11-15 09:29:40 PM

DaCaptain19: Exactly. I don't know any country in the middle east that is as badass as the Israeli military. Those guys are so motherf*cking tough they make the U.S. military look about as relevant as a poopy-flavoured lollipop. They don't mess the f*ck around - they've had a history the average soft/cushy U.S. citizen can't comprehend. I wouldn't f*ck with them.


notsureifserious.bmp
 
2012-11-15 09:58:15 PM

mbillips: Amos Quito: Lunaville: Gwendolyn: Not if they have to take it from someone else.

But they didn't. The land Israel was granted was taken by the British. It was ceded to Israel so that Britain and the USA could avoid taking in so many Jewish refugees.


There were Jewish refugees in 1917?

Uh, yeah. Lots. Ever heard of a little thing called WWI? How about the Russian revolution? Y'know who REALLY liked pogroms? Everybody on every side of those little conflicts in the Jewish part of Russia and Poland.



A few of points here:

1. Lunaville claimed (or was under the impression) that Palestine was "ceded to Israel" following WWII because of the Jewish refugees as a result of THAT war. UNTRUE: In fact, the deal for the Jewish Homeland was sealed in the Balfour Declaration in 1917, and had little or NOTHING to do with any Jewish refugee problem at that time. The Zionists were in fact laying the groundwork for a conquest yet to come.

2. Yes, the Czars had been VERY hard on Russia's Jewish population, and Jews worldwide eagerly sought to see the Romanov dynasty overthrown. IN FACT, Jews worldwide (and especially in Eastern and Western Europe) had largely supported GERMANY during WWI, precisely because they wanted to see the czar's ass kicked.

3. Once the Czar was on the ropes AND the seeds of the Bolshevik Revolution were in place, the Zionist leaders publicized the aims of the Balfour Declaration. At this point, the sentiments of the Jews changed, and rather than backing Germany, they largely turned their efforts to supporting Britain. This change of heart did not go unnoticed by the Germans, hence the birth of the "stab in the back" myth which the Nazis used to blame Jews (and others) for their defeat in WWI. But the "myth" was not without some foundation: David Lloyd George, Prime Minister of Britain during WWI recounted the details of the events in his memoirs (1939), and fully credited the Zionists and Jews in general with helping to turn the tide of the war favor of the Allies following the signing of the Balfour Declaration.

And incidentally, Jews (by and large) did NOT see the Bolshevik Revolution as a "bad thing", at least not in the early days. They celebrated the defeat of the Czar and many played prominent (and often brutal) roles in the new government. See Trotsky's Thermidor and Anti-Semitism 1937.


To recap, Lunaville was incorrect when (s)he implied that Britain's ceding territory to Israel was due to a refugee problem following WWII. In fact, this was the fruition of a deal that was made nearly thirty years earlier. Also, while you were correct that Jews suffered harsh conditions under the Czar and in Poland, and refugees were no doubt created, the "rescue" of these refugees was NOT the aim of the deal between the Brits and the Zionist leaders, who had long sought to lay hands on the real estate so that it could, at some point, be populated by Jews and established as a "Jewish State".
 
2012-11-15 10:08:36 PM

liam76: Frederick: Do unto others what has been done to you.

The genocide is on the other foot now, right Jews? Wouldnt you just like to put all those filthy, low life Philistines into labor camps, subjugate them, humiliate them? In Israel's eye's they are still Goliath and David is swinging his sling. Perpetual underdog heroes, tiny Israel.

I had you marked as "Holocaust denier" for "just asking questions".

Now you are trying to accuse Israel of Genocide despite Palestinians and arabs in general in the area having a population that is growing faster than the jews.

Guess I was right or you are dumber than I thought.


Amos Quito: liam76: Amos Quito: in recognizing the mistakes that were made that caused past sufferings, in accepting that they were not simply the victims of "drive-by-history", but played an active role in it, and in taking responsibility for the role played.

Yeah, this guy totally thinks jews weren't behind the holocaust.


Are you running on full power, liam76? You wits seem a bit dimmer than usual.

Who and what are you exactly talking about there? It had nothing to do with the jews and the holocaust?


Your quickness to insults suggest your nature. And what does growing faster than the Jews mean? Do you have a citation for that? A smaller group of people will grow faster than a larger group of people. That isnt an argument against Israel seeking the eradication of Palestinians.
 
2012-11-15 10:30:00 PM
Tatsuma, Thank you for the updates

/favorited
 
2012-11-15 10:36:37 PM
BgJonson79:
Shouldn't the Jews be able to have their own state?

Sure, but the fact that another group of people was already living there is what causes the problems. The Brits farked up big time on that call, and there have been massive geopolitical repercussions ever since. What happened to the Jews during WWII was horrible, but that doesn't mean that another group of people should have been kicked out of their homes and land and subjugated for decades solely because their connections were not as good as those of their new oppressors.
 
2012-11-15 10:44:27 PM

RanDomino: Gleeman
Looks like the Israelis/Jews were first.

If that's the criteria, you can probably tell the class who first built Jerusalem.



You realize Yeru-Salem is Hebrew, right?
 
2012-11-15 10:47:03 PM

Tatsuma: Things are about to get farking real. Holy farking shiat.


Reading the thread here, it seems that you actually live in Israel. As I'm always most interested in hearing thoughts/experiences from people who are actually LIVING this stuff (hence the link to the Real News piece above), I would be interested in hearing your opinion on how to solve the Israel/Palestine conflict.

Yes, it's a big question (feel free to give abridged version). Yes, I'm genuinely interested in your opinion. No, I have no intention of arguing/debating with you. No, I'm not being sarcastic.

1.bp.blogspot.com

/always like more info
 
2012-11-15 10:48:26 PM

evoke: GAT_00: topcon: Israel should just totally ignore this and not fight back. 

Totally.

Israel brought the rockets on themselves by telling Palestinians over and over again that they will not negotiate in good faith or make any meaningful concession. They forced a war, because they wanted a war. Much easier to justify wholesale acquisition of land by war than by moving settlers illegally on it.

Israel left Gaza in 2005. They don't want it back. What they want is the terrorists to stop shooting missles at their people in the south. Sounds reasonable to me.


and I am reminded of why GAT landed on my ignore list long ago...
 
2012-11-15 11:03:31 PM
And thanks to all the other Israelis in the thread...
 
2012-11-15 11:31:16 PM

Porous Horace: The trolling in this thread is rather stale and subpar.


sorry man.

lol
 
2012-11-16 12:26:25 AM
fluffy2097
So you missed the part about rockets landing in Israel for DAYS before Israel blew up that guy? As well as missing multiple warnings from Israel that the shiat wouldn't be tolerated?

To be thorough, here's electronic intifada's version of events, which they say started on October 29 and escalated only after offers for a truce on the condition that Israel ceased escalation and airstrikes, to which Israel responded with an airstrike on Hamas's military chief.

Not even I am going to try to claim that it's necessarily correct, but that's probably the most extreme version from a pro-Palestinian faction that is at least plausible. I would like to see a disproof of it, particularly the "Qassam Count" bits that imply that they are the total number launched that day.


Diogenes The Cynic
You realize Yeru-Salem is Hebrew, right?

What did the Jebusites call it?
 
2012-11-16 12:59:36 AM

RanDomino: fluffy2097
So you missed the part about rockets landing in Israel for DAYS before Israel blew up that guy? As well as missing multiple warnings from Israel that the shiat wouldn't be tolerated?

To be thorough, here's electronic intifada's version of events, which they say started on October 29 and escalated only after offers for a truce on the condition that Israel ceased escalation and airstrikes, to which Israel responded with an airstrike on Hamas's military chief.

Not even I am going to try to claim that it's necessarily correct, but that's probably the most extreme version from a pro-Palestinian faction that is at least plausible. I would like to see a disproof of it, particularly the "Qassam Count" bits that imply that they are the total number launched that day.


Diogenes The Cynic
You realize Yeru-Salem is Hebrew, right?

What did the Jebusites call it?


Yeah the qassam bits are dubious at best. They make it sound like there were no rockets launched on 11-11 but then the article they link to and wiki both record over 100

from their site: Qassam Count records no rockets on 11 November. This can perhaps be explained by the fact that Palestinian factions were in talks over a truce and were keen to see calm restored.

and then from the linked article :Over 100 Qassam rockets, mortar shells and Grads were fired at Israel in the span of 24 hours, causing property damage but luckily not fatalities.

and from wiki: Link

November 11

Gazan groups fired over 100 rockets and mortars at Israeli cities and towns. A barrage against Sderot, timed to coincide with the morning commute to work, injured 3 people. One victim, physical education teacher Moshik Levy, was moderately wounded by shrapnel and glass from his car windshield which exploded in his face. A fourth person was injured while fleeing for cover, and five more people were treated for acute stress reaction. Two homes, one in Sderot and one in the Eshkol Regional Council, were damaged by direct rocket hits. United States Ambassador Dan Shapiro declared that his country "supports Israel's right to defend itself and its citizens from these attacks."[294]
 
2012-11-16 01:07:36 AM
Tellingthem
Yeah the qassam bits are dubious at best. They make it sound like there were no rockets launched on 11-11 but then the article they link to and wiki both record over 100

Facts: Not just for breakfast anymore!
 
2012-11-16 01:18:36 AM

RanDomino: Tellingthem
Yeah the qassam bits are dubious at best. They make it sound like there were no rockets launched on 11-11 but then the article they link to and wiki both record over 100

Facts: Not just for breakfast anymore!


Heh...I would like to think it was just a simple mistake and not meant intentionally. Either way they probably shouldn't use twitter as their main source. haha
 
2012-11-16 01:19:55 AM

RanDomino: fluffy2097
So you missed the part about rockets landing in Israel for DAYS before Israel blew up that guy? As well as missing multiple warnings from Israel that the shiat wouldn't be tolerated?

To be thorough, here's electronic intifada's version of events, which they say started on October 29 and escalated only after offers for a truce on the condition that Israel ceased escalation and airstrikes, to which Israel responded with an airstrike on Hamas's military chief.

Not even I am going to try to claim that it's necessarily correct, but that's probably the most extreme version from a pro-Palestinian faction that is at least plausible. I would like to see a disproof of it, particularly the "Qassam Count" bits that imply that they are the total number launched that day.


Diogenes The Cynic
You realize Yeru-Salem is Hebrew, right?

What did the Jebusites call it?


Are you aware of any records that there were Jebusites there at the time of Jerusalems founding?

How about the Arab towns with Arabized Hebrew names? How about the ones with Hebrew names in current PLO territory? There is a reason why Saudi Arabia is called Arabistan, and it has everything to do with the people who came out of it. Palestinians are essentially Arabs. You can't explain that!
 
2012-11-16 01:50:40 AM

rugby-n-beers: BgJonson79:Shouldn't the Jews be able to have their own state?Sure, but the fact that another group of people was already living there is what causes the problems.


So says the American.
 
2012-11-16 02:11:16 AM

Gordon Bennett: rugby-n-beers: BgJonson79:Shouldn't the Jews be able to have their own state?Sure, but the fact that another group of people was already living there is what causes the problems.

So says the American.


And a Brit is going to try and take the moral high ground over that comment??? Wow, now I've heard everything.
 
2012-11-16 02:25:23 AM

willyfreddy: Tatsuma: Things are about to get farking real. Holy farking shiat.

Reading the thread here, it seems that you actually live in Israel. As I'm always most interested in hearing thoughts/experiences from people who are actually LIVING this stuff (hence the link to the Real News piece above), I would be interested in hearing your opinion on how to solve the Israel/Palestine conflict.

Yes, it's a big question (feel free to give abridged version). Yes, I'm genuinely interested in your opinion. No, I have no intention of arguing/debating with you. No, I'm not being sarcastic.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 387x505]

/always like more info


Speaking as someone who has lived here a long time, been in the army and is still an active reservist...
Most Israelis have come to the realization that there will be a Palestinian state. Maybe not everyone actively supports it or campaigns for it, but we have accepted the reality that it will happen at some point. Meanwhile we don't feel the reciprocity from the Palestinians.
Basically after the second Intifada (early 2000s) Israelis were fed up with the whole things and the attitude was: Fark it, we don't have the time or patiences to deal with your shiat. Call us when you're serious.
We're still waiting for the call.
So stuff like rockets coming from Gaza doesn't help much. Abbas saying he is willing to give up the right of return does, except he then goes and takes it back which makes us wonder why the hell did he say it in the first place?
What can be done to solve all this you ask? Speaking from an Israeli perspective, I'd tell the Palestinians to Grow up and talk to us like adults. Negotiation means you aren't going to get everything you want. If you really want a country you are going to have to negotiate like a country.
We know that in the end we are going to have to remove settlements. But you have to understand that some of them, like the city of Ariel (with nearly 20,000 residents) are not going anywhere. Accept it and understand that you'll get something in return.
Also, how about building the infrastructre of a state instead of trying to kill people, as Hamas does. We aren't shooting at the West Bank for a reason. Not everything is perfect there but at least they are attempting to run a country and not shooting at us. That goes a long way with the Israeli public.
 
2012-11-16 02:54:44 AM

tjassen: willyfreddy: Tatsuma: Things are about to get farking real. Holy farking shiat.

Reading the thread here, it seems that you actually live in Israel. As I'm always most interested in hearing thoughts/experiences from people who are actually LIVING this stuff (hence the link to the Real News piece above), I would be interested in hearing your opinion on how to solve the Israel/Palestine conflict.

Yes, it's a big question (feel free to give abridged version). Yes, I'm genuinely interested in your opinion. No, I have no intention of arguing/debating with you. No, I'm not being sarcastic.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 387x505]

/always like more info

Speaking as someone who has lived here a long time, been in the army and is still an active reservist...
Most Israelis have come to the realization that there will be a Palestinian state. Maybe not everyone actively supports it or campaigns for it, but we have accepted the reality that it will happen at some point. Meanwhile we don't feel the reciprocity from the Palestinians.
Basically after the second Intifada (early 2000s) Israelis were fed up with the whole things and the attitude was: Fark it, we don't have the time or patiences to deal with your shiat. Call us when you're serious.
We're still waiting for the call.
So stuff like rockets coming from Gaza doesn't help much. Abbas saying he is willing to give up the right of return does, except he then goes and takes it back which makes us wonder why the hell did he say it in the first place?
What can be done to solve all this you ask? Speaking from an Israeli perspective, I'd tell the Palestinians to Grow up and talk to us like adults. Negotiation means you aren't going to get everything you want. If you really want a country you are going to have to negotiate like a country.
We know that in the end we are going to have to remove settlements. But you have to understand that some of them, like the city of Ariel (with nearly 20,000 residents) are not going anywhere. Accept it ...


I would imagine that it was because (at least) Hamas and probably his own people threw a holy shiat-fit when they heard that. That is one of the main pillars of the "movement" Link Link 

Another tidbit from the second article "Saeb Erakat, a member of the executive committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization, told CNN,"Hamas taking to the streets and doing all of this is an attempt to undermine the PLO and our attempt to go to the U.N.," where the Palestinian government plans to push for Palestine to become a nonmember state based on 1967 borders. Erakat said Hamas was "sabotaging" those efforts." 

\figured you probably knew this already but posting more for the benefit of others
 
2012-11-16 03:41:30 AM

liam76: Uncle Tractor
How does one create a jewish homeland in an area where more than 90% of the population is arab? Before you start, I don't give a crap about deeds and ownership. It's just not relevant.

Because you don't like to care about facts that are inconvenient to your BS.


No, because I don't care about facts that are irrelevant. What matters is this:

How does one create a jewish homeland in an area where 90% of the population is arab?

You also don't care about the large swaths that were empty.

I'm not swayed by the terra nullius argument. It's an argument land-thieves use to justify their actions. "Oh, I see you've parked your car. Guess it's mine then." Pah.

You want to arbitrarily define an area, pretend that only the pockets that are filled with jews are jewish, and that all the empty land must be owned by the other group (regardless of who owns it).

I don't know how to respond to made-up BS like that.

liam76: What is racist is to say that jews can't own land some where because they are jews, and that jews can't have a voice in how a govt should be formed in a place they live where they own the land.


Yes, that would be racist, if one ignores the ethnic cleansing that had to take place for the jews to become a majority in said land. Again:

How does one create a jewish homeland in an area where 90% of the population is arab?

liam76: Tractor's argument against the existence of Israel rests on either jews not being allowed to own land there and allow other to move there, and/or them not having a voice in the govt when the British pulled out.


I'm tired of wasting time on your hasbarah BS, so I'll boil it down to one simple question:

How does one create a jewish homeland in an area where 90% of the population is arab?
 
2012-11-16 04:17:11 AM

Raharu: Tatsuma: Since Wednesday morning, 274 rockets were fired and 105 intercepted by the Iron Dome system.

That is what? Like, 38%... I guess its better then nothing.


It's kind of hard to shoot a bullet with a bullet.
 
2012-11-16 07:00:55 AM

Uncle Tractor: Yes, that would be racist, if one ignores the ethnic cleansing that had to take place for the jews to become a majority in said land. Again:

How does one create a jewish homeland in an area where 90% of the population is arab?


Lets say I lived in a county that was 90% white and 10% black, and there were huge swaths of empty land. The guy who owns that land decided to sell lots of it to people who built houses that mainly attracted black people. Some of the white people who were already living there were renters and the owner decided to rent rent to black people. Is that ethnic cleansing? Is saying that they should be able to build in the empty land and get a vote in the county a "terra nullius argument"?


If you really want to understand it you need to stop being dishonest. Your BS maps that only call pockets of jews as "jewish land" and declare every other square foot, no matter if anyone lives there as arab. Terra nullius implies they came in and took the land. That didn't happen.

Clinging to that 90% figure and pretending that jews had no right to have a vote there is no different than my racist grandfather complaining abotu all the black people who moved in around him and how they shouldn't get to vote.

Frederick: liam76: Frederick: Do unto others what has been done to you.

The genocide is on the other foot now, right Jews? Wouldnt you just like to put all those filthy, low life Philistines into labor camps, subjugate them, humiliate them? In Israel's eye's they are still Goliath and David is swinging his sling. Perpetual underdog heroes, tiny Israel.

I had you marked as "Holocaust denier" for "just asking questions".

Now you are trying to accuse Israel of Genocide despite Palestinians and arabs in general in the area having a population that is growing faster than the jews.

Guess I was right or you are dumber than I thought.

Your quickness to insults suggest your nature. And what does growing faster than the Jews mean? Do you have a citation for that? A smaller group of people will grow faster than a larger group of people. That isnt an argument against Israel seeking the eradication of Palestinians.


If the population of Arabs is growing at all it isn't genocide.

If it is growing faster than the rate of jews then they are really bad at what your addled mind claims they are seeking.

You are too stupid to be worth a citation, however in case anyoen else is following along.
 
2012-11-16 07:04:06 AM

Uncle Tractor: You want to arbitrarily define an area, pretend that only the pockets that are filled with jews are jewish, and that all the empty land must be owned by the other group (regardless of who owns it).

I don't know how to respond to made-up BS like that.


What is made up BS? British mandate wasnt' arbitrarily defined? You haven't insisted time and tiem agai that the empty land must be arab, despite who buys it?
 
2012-11-16 07:42:53 AM

give me doughnuts: JK47: I'm not even going to address the rest of your post since it's predicated on the false premise that Gaza is another country and not an occupied territory.

Occupied by whom? Just how many Israeli settlements to you think there are in the Gaza Strip? Or are you talking about the thousands of IDF troops that aren't in Gaza?


sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-11-16 08:03:42 AM

liam76: Lets say I lived in a county that was 90% white and 10% black, and there were huge swaths of empty land.


There's that colonistspeak again...

The guy who owns that land decided to sell lots of it to people who built houses that mainly attracted black people.

No, the people who buy the land rent only to black people. (and to non-black workers when needed)

Some of the white people who were already living there were renters and the owner decided to rent rent to black people.

So the white people get evicted to make space for black people.

Is that ethnic cleansing?

When one landlord does it, it's an example of a racist landlord. When all the landlords do it, and they're all motivated by the same "living space" ideology (say, "blackonism"), it's ethnic cleansing. Your example is as dishonest as you are.

Is saying that they should be able to build in the empty land and get a vote in the county a "terra nullius argument"?

Saying that empty land is up for grabs is the terra nullius argument.

If you really want to understand it you need to stop being dishonest. Your BS maps that only call pockets of jews as "jewish land"

Jewish *owned* land. The land itself (Palestine) was arab.

and declare every other square foot, no matter if anyone lives there as arab. Terra nullius implies they came in and took the land. That didn't happen.

Then stop going on about the empty land.

Clinging to that 90% figure and pretending that jews had no right to have a vote there is no different than my racist grandfather complaining abotu all the black people who moved in around him and how they shouldn't get to vote.

I'm clinging to the 90% figure because it's a fact. 90% of the population was arab. Some members of a european ethnicity (the ashkenazim, and yes, they are Jews) decided to make a country of their own, and to do so by buying property in Palestine and evicting those who weren't jewish. Also, the ashkenazim were very obnoxious to their non-ahskenazim neighbors.

I'm amused at the way you keep tying yourself in knots to avoid answering this simple question:

How does one create a jewish homeland in an area where 90% of the population is arab?
 
2012-11-16 08:06:00 AM

liam76: What is made up BS? British mandate wasnt' arbitrarily defined? You haven't insisted time and tiem agai that the empty land must be arab, despite who buys it?


The whole area was Palestine. Some of it happened to be empty of people. That doesn't make it up for grabs. I'm sure there's some unoccupied space in your home. Would it be OK for you if someone moved in there?
 
2012-11-16 09:27:48 AM

Uncle Tractor: liam76: Lets say I lived in a county that was 90% white and 10% black, and there were huge swaths of empty land.

There's that colonistspeak again...


You have to be a colonist to acknowledge that some land is empty?

If I decide to buy an empty lot to build houses I am a colonist?

Uncle Tractor: No, the people who buy the land rent only to black people. (and to non-black workers when needed)


You have some documentation that they were refusing to sell to Arabs?

Uncle Tractor: So the white people get evicted to make space for black people.


Peopel who aren't paying as much get evicted to make room for peopel who are paying more. Or soem peopel leave because they don't like how the neighborhood looks now. Neither of those are ethnic cleanisng.

Uncle Tractor: When one landlord does it, it's an example of a racist landlord. When all the landlords do it, and they're all motivated by the same "living space" ideology (say, "blackonism"), it's ethnic cleansing. Your example is as dishonest as you are.


Once again, show me the proof that the owners of that land in Jordan and Turkey were refusing to sell to Arabs.


Uncle Tractor: Saying that empty land is up for grabs is the terra nullius argument.


I never said it was "up for grabs". I was saying it was empty. When jews bought it they had every right to let jews live there.

Pretending that jews can't buy empty land and can't allow other jews to move there, and that when they do they have no voice in govt is racism. Plain and simple.

Uncle Tractor: Jewish *owned* land. The land itself (Palestine) was arab.


By what standard? If there were one jew and 9 arabs in all of the British mandate would you say the entire area is 90% arab? Or would you use some common farking sense and realize that a lot of the land was empty.

Uncle Tractor: Then stop going on about the empty land.


Stop pretending empty land is arab.

Uncle Tractor: I'm clinging to the 90% figure because it's a fact. 90% of the population was arab. Some members of a european ethnicity (the ashkenazim, and yes, they are Jews) decided to make a country of their own, and to do so by buying property in Palestine and evicting those who weren't jewish. Also, the ashkenazim were very obnoxious to their non-ahskenazim neighbors.


I am not denying that 90% was, however it doesn't matter if most of the land is empty. It doesn't matter if the land is owned by other peopel who sold it to the jews.

Uncle Tractor: I'm amused at the way you keep tying yourself in knots to avoid answering this simple question:

How does one create a jewish homeland in an area where 90% of the population is arab


I answered it. Multiple times. However you are too stupid to realize just because ot one point 90% of the peopel in an arbitrary land being arab doesn;t mean that the country is chock full of Arabs, nor does it mean there isn't empty land jews can buy and move into.


Uncle Tractor: The whole area was Palestine. Some of it happened to be empty of people. That doesn't make it up for grabs. I'm sure there's some unoccupied space in your home. Would it be OK for you if someone moved in there?


Never said it was up for grabs. I said it was empty.

You, being the raging antisemite you are, thinks that jews shouldn't be allowed to buy empty land.

If my home was owned by someone else and the lease said nothing about who got to use my basement, the owner would be able to rent it out, or sell it. I wouldn't get veto power based on the race/religion of the person.
 
2012-11-16 10:12:09 AM
So this wasn't anything but a minor flare up because CNN just has a giant twinkie on the from page today.

Looks like Super Jew Tats will need to wait for the Jewish solution of Hamas.
 
2012-11-16 10:50:11 AM

DaCaptain19: oukewldave: This is the worst Israeli thread ever. All I see are words. Where are pics of IDF girls?

Do you know how I know you're 12?


You shut your dirty mouth. He is right! This thread does need more hot IDF girls...
 
2012-11-16 11:15:30 AM

Uncle Tractor: decided to make a country of their own, and to do so by buying property in Palestine and evicting those who weren't jewish


As revolting as it is to discriminate against non-jews, the fact is they bought it. They didn't steal it or kill someone for it. They BOUGHT it. As in the Palestinians sold it, and were paid for it. They accepted deals and took the money from the Jews for their land. How is that the fault of the Jews who paid for it?

If I sold my car, and then after I spent the money I looked back at the guy who bought it and attacked him because I wanted my car back, that would obviously be wrong on my part, because if I wanted the car, I shouldn't have sold it. Somehow this is okay for arabs to do though.
 
2012-11-16 11:24:35 AM

tjassen: willyfreddy: Tatsuma: Things are about to get farking real. Holy farking shiat.

Reading the thread here, it seems that you actually live in Israel. As I'm always most interested in hearing thoughts/experiences from people who are actually LIVING this stuff (hence the link to the Real News piece above), I would be interested in hearing your opinion on how to solve the Israel/Palestine conflict.

Yes, it's a big question (feel free to give abridged version). Yes, I'm genuinely interested in your opinion. No, I have no intention of arguing/debating with you. No, I'm not being sarcastic.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 387x505]

/always like more info

Speaking as someone who has lived here a long time, been in the army and is still an active reservist...
Most Israelis have come to the realization that there will be a Palestinian state. Maybe not everyone actively supports it or campaigns for it, but we have accepted the reality that it will happen at some point. Meanwhile we don't feel the reciprocity from the Palestinians.
Basically after the second Intifada (early 2000s) Israelis were fed up with the whole things and the attitude was: Fark it, we don't have the time or patiences to deal with your shiat. Call us when you're serious.
We're still waiting for the call.
So stuff like rockets coming from Gaza doesn't help much. Abbas saying he is willing to give up the right of return does, except he then goes and takes it back which makes us wonder why the hell did he say it in the first place?
What can be done to solve all this you ask? Speaking from an Israeli perspective, I'd tell the Palestinians to Grow up and talk to us like adults. Negotiation means you aren't going to get everything you want. If you really want a country you are going to have to negotiate like a country.
We know that in the end we are going to have to remove settlements. But you have to understand that some of them, like the city of Ariel (with nearly 20,000 residents) are not going anywhere. Accept it and understand that you'll get something in return.
Also, how about building the infrastructre of a state instead of trying to kill people, as Hamas does. We aren't shooting at the West Bank for a reason. Not everything is perfect there but at least they are attempting to run a country and not shooting at us. That goes a long way with the Israeli public.


Thanks for your opinion. Much appreciated.

cdn.abovethelaw.com
 
2012-11-16 12:01:18 PM

spiderpaz: Uncle Tractor: decided to make a country of their own, and to do so by buying property in Palestine and evicting those who weren't jewish

As revolting as it is to discriminate against non-jews, the fact is they bought it. They didn't steal it or kill someone for it. They BOUGHT it. As in the Palestinians sold it, and were paid for it. They accepted deals and took the money from the Jews for their land. How is that the fault of the Jews who paid for it?

If I sold my car, and then after I spent the money I looked back at the guy who bought it and attacked him because I wanted my car back, that would obviously be wrong on my part, because if I wanted the car, I shouldn't have sold it. Somehow this is okay for arabs to do though.


Most of the people they were buying land from were from Turkey or Jordan.

Tractor likes to paing a picture of Palestenains forced into a corner with nowhere to go, but the fact is that there was no distinction between them and Jordanians at the time. Also prior to the formation of Israel there was also massive immigration of Arabs due to the economy that was growing because Jews were dragging the area out of the stone ages. If they had taken the deal in 1948 Paelstine would be economically ahead of all of their neighbors by being a trading partner with Egypt.
 
2012-11-16 12:05:32 PM
tjassen
So stuff like rockets coming from Gaza doesn't help much. Abbas saying he is willing to give up the right of return does, except he then goes and takes it back which makes us wonder why the hell did he say it in the first place?
...
We know that in the end we are going to have to remove settlements. But you have to understand that some of them, like the city of Ariel (with nearly 20,000 residents) are not going anywhere. Accept it and understand that you'll get something in return.


Excuses. Israel has the ability to unilaterally impose peace. Why should they take YOU seriously when Israel refuses to show good faith by getting back to basic international law by ceasing settlement construction and removing the ones that will certainly be removed?

We aren't shooting at the West Bank for a reason. Not everything is perfect there but at least they are attempting to run a country and not shooting at us.

Gee I don't know, maybe because of hundreds of checkpoints and a constant military presence and military government that micromanages their existence?


spiderpaz
the Palestinians sold it

The people who were actually living there were tenant renters. The land was sold out from under them by absentee landlords. The farmers went from having nothing to having less then nothing and no future. Can't imagine why that would create resentment.
 
2012-11-16 12:14:14 PM

RanDomino: Excuses. Israel has the ability to unilaterally impose peace. Why should they take YOU seriously when Israel refuses to show good faith by getting back to basic international law by ceasing settlement construction and removing the ones that will certainly be removed?


What happened when they "imposed peace" by forcibly removing their settlements from Gaza?

RanDomino: The people who were actually living there were tenant renters. The land was sold out from under them by absentee landlords. The farmers went from having nothing to having less then nothing and no future. Can't imagine why that would create resentment


If they had nothing why were other arabs immigrating there?
 
2012-11-16 12:26:57 PM

liam76: You, being the raging antisemite you are, thinks that jews shouldn't be allowed to buy empty land.


You're still a liar, I see.

If my home was owned by someone else and the lease said nothing about who got to use my basement, the owner would be able to rent it out, or sell it. I wouldn't get veto power based on the race/religion of the person.

...But you seem to be OK with the new owners using ethnicity to determine who gets to live on their new property. I guess it's not racist when zionists do it.

i560.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-16 12:33:18 PM

spiderpaz: As revolting as it is to discriminate against non-jews, the fact is they bought it. They didn't steal it or kill someone for it. They BOUGHT it. As in the Palestinians sold it, and were paid for it. They accepted deals and took the money from the Jews for their land. How is that the fault of the Jews who paid for it?


That's not the problem. The problem is when the new owners kick out non-jews and only rent / sell to jews. Again; when one person does it, it's a racist landowner. When several hundred people of teh same ideology do it, it's ethnic cleansing. Either way, it's totally repulsive.

If I sold my car, and then after I spent the money I looked back at the guy who bought it and attacked him because I wanted my car back, that would obviously be wrong on my part, because if I wanted the car, I shouldn't have sold it. Somehow this is okay for arabs to do though.

i560.photobucket.com

If the new jewish landowners had behaved the same way as the previous non-jewish landowners, the arabs wouldn't have cared one way or the other.
 
2012-11-16 12:43:25 PM

Uncle Tractor: liam76: You, being the raging antisemite you are, thinks that jews shouldn't be allowed to buy empty land.

You're still a liar, I see.


Everytime I have pointed out there si nothing wrong wiht them buying empty land and having a voice in the govt there you have cried "terra nullius" and pretended it was wrong of them to do that. I don't really care what your excuse is but when you say jews can't do that, you are an anti-semite.


Uncle Tractor: ...But you seem to be OK with the new owners using ethnicity to determine who gets to live on their new property. I guess it's not racist when zionists do it


Prior to 1948 (you know when Israel was attacked) when were they saying arabs can't live somewhere?
 
2012-11-16 12:43:31 PM

liam76: Tractor likes to paing a picture of Palestenains forced into a corner with nowhere to go,


liam likes to paint a picture of himself as a mind-reader who knows more about me than I do.

but the fact is that there was no distinction between them and Jordanians at the time.

Another picture liam (and most israel-apologists) likes to paint is that of the arab world as a completely homogenous place where a plot of land in Iraq is exactly the same as a plot of land in Morocco. If your home is west of the Jordan, then your home is west of the Jordan, not east of the Jordan. Your friends, relatives, workplace, olive groves, and centuries' worth of family graves are west of the Jordan, not east of the Jordan. Why would you want to (or be willing to) move east of the Jordan?

Also prior to the formation of Israel there was also massive immigration of Arabs due to the economy that was growing because Jews were dragging the area out of the stone ages. If they had taken the deal in 1948 Paelstine would be economically ahead of all of their neighbors by being a trading partner with Egypt.

The arab immigration is vastly overrated. The arab population in the area doubled between 1850 and 1947 (and the ashkenazi population went from 0% to about a third). This could easily be accomplished simply by having more food and better medicine (which most likely came with the europeans).
 
Displayed 50 of 716 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report