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(Slate)   Latest Bond movie features weapon we should actually make   (slate.com) divider line 179
    More: Interesting, golden gun, james bond movies, atomic bombings, personalized medicine, H.G. Wells, New America Foundation  
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17925 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Nov 2012 at 2:46 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-15 08:33:04 PM  
I love James Bond, but that movie was a giant ball of suck.
 
2012-11-15 08:33:12 PM  
A Mark II phaser would be a much better self defense weapon in my opinion. No recoil, the ability to disable a target regardless of size, no ballistics physics, etc.

Then conventional firearms would be for recreational use and hunting primarily, especially if the phaser weren't rediculously expensive. A nice pipe dream.
 
2012-11-15 08:38:00 PM  
Stupid article is stupid.

1. The technology doesn't exist.
2. It would be mind-boggling expensive even if it did.
3. No legislation requiring such expensive tech could possibly pass (cue the NRA's "poor people need self-protection, too." campaign).
4. There are more than a hundred million guns in private hands in the U.S. now. If every new handgun had the Bond tech in it, there would still be more than a hundred million guns without it, and those guns wouldn't go away. I own several dozen guns myself, and only a couple of them are less than 40 years old. Several are more than 100 years old, and work like new. Guns don't wear out.
 
2012-11-15 08:41:55 PM  

labman: Because if someone breaks into my house and is pointing a gun at me, I want my gun to have to verify i'm holding it before I shoot them. Because finger print readers are so accurate that I don't have to swipe my finger several times to use laptops that require them or go into an area that uses fingerprints.

A better solution might be an RFID implant in your palm that it's reading. That way if your hands are dirty or anything like that, it won't stop you from shooting someone/something when you want to.


It would have really sucked if Bond went anywhere cold, or if he had something on his hands, or if the battery ran out....like because he was someplace cold.... or if he burned his palm......


Really its the stupidest Idea I have ever seen for controlling access to a firearm. I would guess that it would cost over a thousand dollars for a commercial version, would work reliably about 30% of the time and almost never in a crisis situation. I think a gunsmith could also disable it in a few minutes.

The Slate is only interested in it because it would make guns more expensive and more difficult to own. They even get a bit snarky about our right to own a gun not extending to a right to have it stolen....? I wonder if they would be cool with a VTT filter installed on their face which would pre-screen their comments and only allow the politically correct ones to be vocalized.....or a filter going the other way which would monitor the food they tried to eat for fat content and disable their jaw before chewing. Sometimes rights shouldnt be abridged in any fashion because its just wrong to try.
 
2012-11-15 08:46:22 PM  

mbillips: Guns don't wear out.


Wha? Of course they do. They are mechanical devices, any kind of use is going to cause wear.
 
2012-11-15 08:48:02 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: dittybopper

Don't use a trigger lock. It's a mechanical finger near the trigger.


Huh?

My trigger locks have pieces that pass behind the trigger. Even if someone tried to move the trigger by applying force to the lock, he probably wouldn't be able to crush that piece enough to get the trigger to move.


This all assumes the locks are used...


I kinda laughed when a brother of a friend asked why I didn't have a trigger lock on my rifle. Then I showed him just how silly that would be on a lever action gun. If I wanted to secure it I'd have to use something more like a mike lock and there is no way I am wrapping something like that around my gun.

And while mine is old enough to count as antique I was at the store earlier today and several companies are still making lever action rifles.

My point is this, there is no perfect method of securing all weapons. Even gun safes can be broken into. They don't exactly have the complexity of bank vaults. No matter what they do to secure the door it doesn't matter when a couple of hundred dollar plasma cutter from harbor freight can just cut the top off the thing. Trigger lock can be removed with a cheap drill and a decent drill bit. palm/finger scanners are stupidly trivial to get around even with a photocopy of a print. Etc and etc.
 
2012-11-15 08:52:44 PM  

iheartscotch: Ethertap: iheartscotch: dittybopper: iheartscotch: It would also significantly increase the price of firearms.

That's the real reason behind it: So poor minorities can't afford them.

That is a possibility; but, as it stands, even the cheapest guns I know about are $250-$350. That's a huge investment for poor people.

The real goal is probably to increase the cost of all firearms; so it's expensive for everyone but rich people.

There's a pawn shop on the way home from work that has a banner advertising $99 9mm pistols. That's pretty cheap, although I'm guessing that the guns are pretty crappy.

I'm guessing its either a Croatian / soviet surplus number or it's a Hi-point. If its a Hi-point, it's utter crap. If its a surplus pistol; it depends. You can get some neat old pistols for super cheap. Last I knew, you could get a nagant pistol for under $100, the ammunition is very scarce though. But, for a new production pistol anything under $250 is going to be utter crap.


Let me introduce you to the Jennings family's line of fine products.

Compared to a Raven MP-25 or a Lorcin 9mm, a Hi-Point is a precision work of art.

Oh, you can shoot .32 long in a Nagant gas seal; way cheaper than buying the actual Nagant ammo.

Why people buy new production pistols escapes me. You can get a much, MUCH better gun by buying used. Something made out of forged steel instead of plastic.
 
2012-11-15 09:00:52 PM  
the point of this is so homeowners with children can pay more... for a greater guarantee of home safety. This is not about stopping criminals, or changing the market composition....

it's about home safety only. Keep that in mind before you knock it.
 
2012-11-15 09:14:49 PM  

LookForTheArrow: the point of this is so homeowners with children can pay more... for a greater guarantee of home safety. This is not about stopping criminals, or changing the market composition....

it's about home safety only. Keep that in mind before you knock it.


I can remember when I was first taken to the shooting range with my parents at age 5. I had many conversations with my parents about firearms before that. I don't think that you need to get a biometric safety equipped firearm to not worry about firearms in a home with children. You just need to be a good parent. Those who think they can pay more to avoid being a good parent are among the worst.
 
2012-11-15 09:24:41 PM  

LookForTheArrow: it's about home safety only. Keep that in mind before you knock it.


I am aware of that. Being intended for home safety doesn't excuse a product for being poor.
 
KIA
2012-11-15 09:28:01 PM  
DRTT, but FTFA:

Maybe biometric guns could reduce the gang violence that contributes more than 90 percent of U.S. homicides, most of them committed with illegal firearms. 

Well, there's your problem right there. Illegal firearms = not compliant with the law. Pass all the laws you want and nothing will change as long as gangs can use illegal firearms.
 
KIA
2012-11-15 09:36:27 PM  

Boosterspice: I love James Bond, but that movie was a giant ball of suck.


Thank FSM I'm not the only one. Saw it at the afternoon matinee, was wide awake, almost fell asleep anyway. "Skyfall" sounded SO dramatic and fraught with peril, only... well, you know. Plot holes big enough for... for... anything to get through.

I seriously don't know what movie all of the glowing reviews came from.
 
2012-11-15 09:42:32 PM  

mbillips:
Let me introduce you to the Jennings family's line of fine products.

Compared to a Raven MP-25 or a Lorcin 9mm, a Hi-Point is a precision work of art.

I own both a Jimenez 9mm (which is the same family as the lorcin 9.) and a Hi-point. There's a reason they call Hi-point the poor man's Glock.
On the plus side with the Jimenez I get to practice dealing with misfeeds after every successful shot. (And I sent it in to get fixed, they cleaned the ramp at no charge, and... it's even worse now.) I would not suggest this gun for anyone for any reason. There are guns that are just as cheap without any problems. Go to a gun show, or pawn shop
 
2012-11-15 10:08:41 PM  

HoityToity: Mock26:

You should use your middle finger. Seriously. I forget the name of this style, but the idea behind it is to lay your index finger alongside the barrel, pointing forward, and use your middle finger to fire. The idea is that humans have the innate ability to point their middle finger accurately at just about anything. It is not good if you are trying to shoot coins or nail that bull's eye ring, but for larger targets it is supposed to be quite accurate.

Sure, great idea. I love it when the slide slices off most of my index finger.


And if you did that with a revolver the gas escaping from between the top of the cylinder and the forcing cone would rip your finger open.
 
2012-11-15 11:52:05 PM  
Keeve: you took the gun barrel (oops, meant to say words) right out of my mouth.
 
2012-11-16 01:11:13 AM  
HURR I DON'T WANT GUBBAMINT LOCKING ME OUT OF MY OWN GUN
DURRRR
 
2012-11-16 01:39:44 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: Mock26

It is not good if you are trying to shoot coins or nail that bull's eye ring, but for larger targets it is supposed to be quite accurate.


Don't take this the wrong way, but I could stand on my head and hit a "larger target". That does not mean head-standing is an effective technique; it means the target is so large that it masks the problems with the technique.


Israeli commandos use this technique without any problem.
 
2012-11-16 01:55:09 AM  

iheartscotch: That is a possibility; but, as it stands, even the cheapest guns I know about are $250-$350.

Ethertap: There's a pawn shop on the way home from work that has a banner advertising $99 9mm pistols. That's pretty cheap, although I'm guessing that the guns are pretty crappy.

Magnanimous_J: They are probably Hi-point. They are ugly as all hell, and the fit and finish is really rough, but they are actually very reliable and reasonably accurate.

Mayhem of the Black Underclass: And if you're patient you can pick up pistols from Gunbroker.com for under $100 (+$20 shipping +$35 transfer fee), You could go to your local dealer and fund any number of used pistols for under $200. You just can't be picky.


Do some reading on Bryco/Jennings/Jimenez. I see them going for ~100 new all the time, and most people agree that you are paying too much. I'll stick to my Walthers and H&Ks because they always work. And, unlike Bryco, they fire the bullet forward and don't explode afterwards.
But I did pick up a couple .22mag double shot "high standard" derringers a while ago, an RG14, and even a titan tiger - only paid a few bucks for each... though none of them can even shoot straight.
 
2012-11-16 02:08:29 AM  

Hacker_X: If I wanted to secure it I'd have to use something more like a mike lock and there is no way I am wrapping something like that around my gun.


You can probably take a cable lock and wrap a figure 8 through the lever loop over the stock twice. As long as it has a rubber coating it won't even leave a smudge. I've done it on 3 of mine and it worked well. If you ever go to a community event, look for those free "PROJECT CHILDSAFE" locks. I keep a few in my trunk just in case I happen to be out somewhere and accidentally pick up another gun :)

Mayhem of the Black Underclass: On the plus side with the Jimenez I get to practice dealing with misfeeds after every successful shot. (And I sent it in to get fixed, they cleaned the ramp at no charge, and... it's even worse now.) I would not suggest this gun for anyone for any reason


Perfect! I hadn't perused your post prior to posting my previous post.
 
dh2
2012-11-16 04:04:58 AM  

harlock: harlock: Am I really the first one to mention The Weapons Shop of Isher?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Weapon_Shops_of_Isher

Isher


I'll take Books of A. E. van Vogt for $200 Alex!
 
2012-11-16 05:19:08 AM  

whidbey: HURR I DON'T WANT GUBBAMINT LOCKING ME OUT OF MY OWN GUN
DURRRR


I doubt the government would be left in charge of such a system for long.
Every gun dealer and smith would need the means to update the keys, which means the technology will be out there to unlock stolen weapons (assuming we don't just open the thing and replace the trigger group).

/This is used in one James Bond movie to make the hero look like a boss.
/This will be used in a dozen horror films to make sure the monster eats as many teenagers as possible.
 
2012-11-16 07:34:53 AM  

ThreadSinger: I think it's a neat idea, if the sensor mechanism picks up the right person with more reliability than the chance to jam the weapon normally


Wrong thinking: the errors would be cumulative because they are unrelated. Say you have a gun that will jam every 500 rounds, and the sensor has a failure to read every 100 attempts, and the average number of shots fired per time you handle the gun is 5, which would put the failure to read rate for the sensor at once every 500 rounds. That means for every 333 pulls of the trigger, it won't go "BANG!".

You just made the reliability of your gun worse by a third.
 
2012-11-16 07:35:31 AM  

dittybopper: You just made the reliability of your gun worse by a third 50%.


FTFM.
 
2012-11-16 08:09:39 AM  

Mock26


Israeli commandos use this technique without any problem.


Link, please? A real link - no Wikipedia.
 
2012-11-16 08:58:06 AM  

Mikeyworld: There isn't a trigger safety that can stop a gun from killing someone when they want you dead. The safest thing that could done to protect the citizenry from wanton acts of gun violence is to make any use of firearms in the commission of a crime punishable by death. Yes, the death penalty for using a firearm while committing a crime. There has to be a conviction on the crime before this can be enacted, but it would thin the herd a little (there will always be those who will have guns, just less of them).

/any crime will do. It's the gun that counts
//also, register and limit bullets
///


Sigh.

If the death penalty deterred crime, Texas would be crime-free.

It ain't.
 
2012-11-16 09:05:58 AM  

ThatGuyOverThere:
Mayhem of the Black Underclass: On the plus side with the Jimenez I get to practice dealing with misfeeds after every successful shot. (And I sent it in to get fixed, they cleaned the ramp at no charge, and... it's even worse now.) I would not suggest this gun for anyone for any reason

Perfect! I hadn't perused your post prior to posting my previous post.


There's one more thing I hadn't mentioned about the design of the gun, the slide comes straight back, and it's a compact gun meaning that the slide literally rips flesh off of your hand if you actually manage to get a shot off.

/I bought it when trying to decide on size and caliber for carry. And figured it was a cheap option for a gun I WASN'T planning on using for reals.
 
2012-11-16 09:12:47 AM  

Mock26: Englebert Slaptyback: Mock26

It is not good if you are trying to shoot coins or nail that bull's eye ring, but for larger targets it is supposed to be quite accurate.


Don't take this the wrong way, but I could stand on my head and hit a "larger target". That does not mean head-standing is an effective technique; it means the target is so large that it masks the problems with the technique.

Israeli commandos use this technique without any problem.


I...... am dubious towards this claim.
 
2012-11-16 11:56:46 AM  
I'll second the demand that this be required for troops and police before there's a hint of requiring it for civilian arms. And how well do you think the M-16 would sell, overseas, with this as an integral part of the rifle? :-P
 
2012-11-17 06:42:52 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: Mock26

Israeli commandos use this technique without any problem.


Link, please? A real link - no Wikipedia.


If I remember correctly I saw it on the Krav Magra episode of Human Weapon.
 
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