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(LA Times)   U.S. faces the difficult problem of finding 52,000 additional people who are smart enough to get through medical school and dumb enough to think that working with family medicine will be a fun and rewarding career   (latimes.com) divider line 56
    More: Fail, primary care doctors, School of Medicine, population ageing, American Made, careers  
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2129 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 Nov 2012 at 10:37 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-11-15 11:16:20 AM  
4 votes:
Much like the "nursing shortage", the problem isnt that you cant find enough people to fill the jobs. You could easily fill all the job openings with the available candidates, and you would fill them with adequately skilled employees. The problem is they want to fill them for as close to minimum wage as they can get away with, and they cant do it. You have enough of a workforce available. But you dont have a glut of employees desperate for work and willing to work for a pittance.

Yea tough shiat.
2012-11-15 11:03:54 AM  
4 votes:
HERE THEY ARE!!!!

www.mapsofindia.com
2012-11-15 11:03:11 AM  
4 votes:
Lots of comments about finding docs who aren't in it for the money. Stack up a quarter of a million in student loan debt and go be altruistic in Africa in your 30s while the interer accumulates. See how that goes.

Alternatively, find someone dumb enough to believe that they shouldn't be well compensated for their work and let me know how good they are with a scalpel.

It'd be like saying, the plumbing industry needs more people interested in pulling shiat out of toilets for the good of humanity. I'm not paying 100 bucks an hour for that! That engineer should build a bridge that doesn't collapse because he loves helping people get to work without dying, he doesn't need to be paid much for his specialized training and ability.
2012-11-15 11:02:08 AM  
3 votes:
I don't know, sounds like a pretty sweet gig to me:

- Triple book appointments all day, show up 25 minutes late to each one of them after the nurses have done all the actual diagnostic work
- Listen to the person gripe about whatever for 5 minutes
- Tell them that viruses just have to run their course, they should go home, sleep, and drink plenty of fluids
- If they look at you funny, realize they were complaining about a pulled muscle instead of the flu, write them a script for Loratab
- 3:30 already? Quitting time!
2012-11-15 02:20:57 PM  
2 votes:
If medical schools accepted more students and if there were more medical schools in the US they could probably fill that gap easily. I base this, of course, on my own medical school rejection.
/should have applied to osteopathic schools as well
//and schools in the Caribean
///and the Philippines
2012-11-15 01:55:10 PM  
2 votes:

mark12A: Primary care could easily be accomplished with a kick ass software package. Input symptoms, get list of tests/exams required to isolate the cause, and proceed from there. Wouldn' be surprised if someone like WebMD would put this online...


WebMD is farking horrible. Do you know how many patients come in, convinced they know more than their doctor, because WedMD told them they have this disease or that disease? And refuse to believe otherwise, making their doc's job three times harder?

/no, your blood sugar is not fine, fattie
2012-11-15 01:00:00 PM  
2 votes:

natazha: I expect LPNs (licensed practical nurse) will fill many of the slots currently filled by GPs.


Except the hospitals have already tried to go that route (my wife was looking in to it). Some states don't recognize them as qualified to write prescriptions so they have to run everything by a doctor anyway. They also get the joy of working the same grueling pace and hours of a real doctor for just about the same (or in some cases less!) then they were making as a floor nurse.

Three of the four LPN's she talked to said they wouldn't recommend it as a career path right now.
2012-11-15 12:33:14 PM  
2 votes:

TofuTheAlmighty: weiserfireman: You have to greatly increase the size or number of medical schools in the US to do that. Current graduations are not keeping up with the number of people leaving the profession, plus the demands of universal healthcare and population growth.

This is a big part of the fix. The AMA is essentially a cartel because they artificially constrain the number of accredited med schools thus increasing scarcity of doctors and inflating doctors' wages.

(The second big part is to stop covering new/experimental treatments that are no better than old, established methods or drugs. But that runs directly against American consumerism.)


It also runs contrary to the financial interests of the insurance industry.
2012-11-15 12:11:44 PM  
2 votes:

karmaceutical: Maybe... just maybe... medical professionals should be in the profession because they genuinely want to heal, and not let the "half as much as a specialist" drive their decision.


There are too many jobs in the world that aren't fun. That's why we pay for them. The whole idea that everyone can "do what they love" or that only people who truly love something should do the job is not workable. Sure, we'd have lots of musicians and snowboarding instructors... but we'd have a vast shortage of nearly everything else.

If we don't have enough of some critical job at that job's current pay rate, we need to pay more. That's pretty basic.
2012-11-15 11:18:25 AM  
2 votes:

TofuTheAlmighty: weiserfireman: You have to greatly increase the size or number of medical schools in the US to do that. Current graduations are not keeping up with the number of people leaving the profession, plus the demands of universal healthcare and population growth.

This is a big part of the fix. The AMA is essentially a cartel because they artificially constrain the number of accredited med schools thus increasing scarcity of doctors and inflating doctors' wages.

(The second big part is to stop covering new/experimental treatments that are no better than old, established methods or drugs. But that runs directly against American consumerism.)


the AMA rolled over for prior health care "reforms ". if it comes to it, they'll get slapped down to please the Obamessiah, without a doubt.
2012-11-15 11:17:34 AM  
2 votes:
My BIL just finished his residency in family medicine and got hired on at an affluent semi-rural clinic.

He's something like 29 years old, paid off most of his med school debt because my sister worked through med school plus undergrad full ride. Works normal hours, has a 6 month old, is looking forward to another kid, pursues hobbies seriously (is competing nationally for his hobby), gets home often, goes for long walks in the evening, enjoys his work, helps people for a living, etc.

He's also a very social person, and would probably be dissatisfied if he didn't get enough patient interaction.

I dunno, he seems to like it a lot, and socially he's years ahead of some of his classmates who couldn't even *think* of settling down (at 29 jeez, no thanks).
2012-11-15 11:08:29 AM  
2 votes:

weiserfireman: You have to greatly increase the size or number of medical schools in the US to do that. Current graduations are not keeping up with the number of people leaving the profession, plus the demands of universal healthcare and population growth.


This is a big part of the fix. The AMA is essentially a cartel because they artificially constrain the number of accredited med schools thus increasing scarcity of doctors and inflating doctors' wages.

(The second big part is to stop covering new/experimental treatments that are no better than old, established methods or drugs. But that runs directly against American consumerism.)
2012-11-15 11:05:54 AM  
2 votes:

karmaceutical: Maybe... just maybe... medical professionals should be in the profession because they genuinely want to heal, and not let the "half as much as a specialist" drive their decision.


While I will applaud anyone who goes into the profession on altruistic motives, I've never understood this reasoning. While there is a base assumption that people should go into careers they find personally fulfilling in some manner, we don't expect businessmen, lawyers, engineers, politicians, or a host of other professions to effectively take salary cuts because they should be doing their jobs for the love of their work. And yet specialized professions like doctors and teachers are expected to enter a field that screws them financially because we apparently have either a lot of saints running. If you want people to enter a career, and want to attract top talent, make it more appealing through better working conditions, better pay, or better benefits.
2012-11-15 10:54:20 AM  
2 votes:
GP positions can largely be filled by NPs and PAs, and just have a GP available for consults.
2012-11-15 10:52:49 AM  
2 votes:
Maybe... just maybe... medical professionals should be in the profession because they genuinely want to heal, and not let the "half as much as a specialist" drive their decision.
2012-11-15 10:43:10 AM  
2 votes:
Lol, GP's. Most of the people my wife went to school wife who ended up GP's were the worst students in her class.
2012-11-15 06:16:51 PM  
1 votes:

rolladuck: KFBR392: karmaceutical: Maybe... just maybe... medical professionals should be in the profession because they genuinely want to heal, and not let the "half as much as a specialist" drive their decision.

Well, then...maybe...just maybe...it shouldn't cost $150,000-$200,000 a year to get a degree and maybe, just maybe...we shouldn't crap on doctors for their first 8 years on the job by over working and under paying them. Also, maybe, just maybe...we shouldn't sue the doctors every chance we get...?

I'm glad to see that what I wanted to say here has already been covered. We do, as a society, everything we can to make being a doctor a miserable existence, and then expect "somebody else" to line up to be the next cultural punching bag the minute we have a boo-boo. That's why we are, as a society, farked.


Teachers fall under that umbrella as well. I did a cost/benefit analysis and decided that even if I found a job right out of school, the student loan payments would be $400-500/mo right off the bat. Not to mention being one false accusation or angry parent away from losing my career entirely.

I like the warm and fuzzy idea of teaching, helping young people succeed, etc -- but it's not worth it. Yeah, there are loan forgiveness programs, but you have to teach special ed most of the time to qualify for that. And once you've got special ed on your resume, you'll be hard-pressed to get hired for teaching anything but.

No thanks.
2012-11-15 06:12:52 PM  
1 votes:

robohobo: mark12A: Primary care could easily be accomplished with a kick ass software package. Input symptoms, get list of tests/exams required to isolate the cause, and proceed from there. Wouldn' be surprised if someone like WebMD would put this online...

WebMD is farking horrible. Do you know how many patients come in, convinced they know more than their doctor, because WedMD told them they have this disease or that disease? And refuse to believe otherwise, making their doc's job three times harder?


That's why what the medical profession needs is trained dispatchers, not more GPs. If we educate and certify some people to recognize a large number of symptoms, prescribe tests for further diagnosis if needed, and quickly route the results to a specialist for analysis, everyone would win.

The entry point into the medical system having to be a brilliant, sacrificing, jack-of-all-trades is the worst practice.in any industry.
2012-11-15 05:36:56 PM  
1 votes:

karmaceutical: Maybe... just maybe... medical professionals should be in the profession because they genuinely want to heal, and not let the "half as much as a specialist" drive their decision.


When you come out 200 to 300K in debt, and being a GP means fighting HMO's and Medicare for every dollar, getting about half of what you deserve, yeah, "half as much as a specialist" is a big consideration.

You sound like those idiots that say paying teachers minimum wage is acceptable because they should "do it for the love of teaching", regardless of how much of their already meager pay goes to pay for basic supplies that should already have been part of the budget.
2012-11-15 04:53:29 PM  
1 votes:

KFBR392: karmaceutical: Maybe... just maybe... medical professionals should be in the profession because they genuinely want to heal, and not let the "half as much as a specialist" drive their decision.

Well, then...maybe...just maybe...it shouldn't cost $150,000-$200,000 a year to get a degree and maybe, just maybe...we shouldn't crap on doctors for their first 8 years on the job by over working and under paying them. Also, maybe, just maybe...we shouldn't sue the doctors every chance we get...?


I'm glad to see that what I wanted to say here has already been covered. We do, as a society, everything we can to make being a doctor a miserable existence, and then expect "somebody else" to line up to be the next cultural punching bag the minute we have a boo-boo. That's why we are, as a society, farked.
2012-11-15 04:07:40 PM  
1 votes:
Perhaps they could bring more people in as GPs if they didn't require long, underpaid, horrible internships and residencies in hospitals for those who simply want to do general family practice. There's really no reason that someone who will MAYBE handle a suture or two needs a serious surgical rotation. Or the debt that comes with making almost no money for years and years after school.

I've got friends who are barely holding it together because their rotations are making them so miserable, but hope to get into family practice when they're done. Seems like a lot of superfluous training for someone who is going to end up treating nothing more serious than a broken arm here or there.
2012-11-15 03:58:08 PM  
1 votes:

Contents Under Pressure: robohobo: Lol, GP's. Most of the people my wife went to school wife who ended up GP's were the worst students in her class.

The person answering the helpdesk line is not the person who is running traceroutes on the network connection.


Yes I am.
2012-11-15 03:42:04 PM  
1 votes:

orclover: Much like the "nursing shortage", the problem isnt that you cant find enough people to fill the jobs. You could easily fill all the job openings with the available candidates, and you would fill them with adequately skilled employees. The problem is they want to fill them for as close to minimum wage as they can get away with, and they cant do it. You have enough of a workforce available. But you dont have a glut of employees desperate for work and willing to work for a pittance.

Yea tough shiat.


Kinda like the whole Jobs Americans Won't Do thing. Yes people will do x for y dollars. People will not do x for .25(y) dollars.
2012-11-15 03:25:12 PM  
1 votes:

karmaceutical: Maybe... just maybe... medical professionals should be in the profession because they genuinely want to heal, and not let the "half as much as a specialist" drive their decision.


Have a few years in a profession that requires that kind of training and family sacrifice and let me know if you still feel that way.
2012-11-15 03:10:11 PM  
1 votes:

robohobo: Lol, GP's. Most of the people my wife went to school wife who ended up GP's were the worst students in her class.


The person answering the helpdesk line is not the person who is running traceroutes on the network connection.
2012-11-15 03:03:08 PM  
1 votes:
Fartbamacare will ruin this country. Mark my words.
2012-11-15 01:57:39 PM  
1 votes:

mark12A: Primary care could easily be accomplished with a kick ass software package. Input symptoms, get list of tests/exams required to isolate the cause, and proceed from there. Wouldn' be surprised if someone like WebMD would put this online...


Said by someone who has never worked in any medical field whatsoever.

Software can support clinical decisions when used right, and help drive care by refreshing provider memory. Any good provider is going to use aids like software and written to help them.

It cannot replace a human being. There's a reason Medicine is an art and a science.
2012-11-15 01:36:41 PM  
1 votes:

natazha: I expect LPNs (licensed practical nurse) will fill many of the slots currently filled by GPs.


Thank you. I haven't laughed like that in a long time.

When there are LPNs around, ask where the CNA is. You'll get better information in the nursing home. :)
2012-11-15 01:29:09 PM  
1 votes:
Create a Domestic Doctors Corp (DDC) which pays for medical school if they agree to serve for a set number of years. Think military academies but for doctors.

A Doctors Academy could be created or a ROTC like program could be created at existing schools.

One of the biggest challenges to becoming a doctor is the cost. This would eliminate that problem.

Doctors could be stationed in areas that there are needs and can be deployed to disaster areas as needed.
2012-11-15 12:50:10 PM  
1 votes:

TofuTheAlmighty: weiserfireman: You have to greatly increase the size or number of medical schools in the US to do that. Current graduations are not keeping up with the number of people leaving the profession, plus the demands of universal healthcare and population growth.

This is a big part of the fix. The AMA is essentially a cartel because they artificially constrain the number of accredited med schools thus increasing scarcity of doctors and inflating doctors' wages.

(The second big part is to stop covering new/experimental treatments that are no better than old, established methods or drugs. But that runs directly against American consumerism.)


The AMA isn't the only one that accredits med schools though. There is also the AOA and they have repeatedly stated their dedication to increasing the number of doctors, especially primary care, in the next decade.
2012-11-15 12:44:53 PM  
1 votes:

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Occam's Disposable Razor: It'd be like saying, the plumbing industry needs more people interested in pulling shiat out of toilets for the good of humanity. I'm not paying 100 bucks an hour for that! That engineer should build a bridge that doesn't collapse because he loves helping people get to work without dying, he doesn't need to be paid much for his specialized training and ability.

Neither of those industries exploit human suffering to drive clients to financial ruin. So answer this: how much money IS too much? At what point do you think it's too much? When we're all spending 50% of our income on basic preventative medicine? 80%? 90%? Throw a number out.


It's too high. My number would lower than what we're spending, no matter where that is, especially for preventative care. Stop smoking, eat less, move more. It's cheap as hell.

I know costs are too high. My wife is holding off on a surgery that would very much improve her quality of life because even with insurance that covers the condition and personally knowing the surgeon, the cost is still a little more than we can afford right now with both of us working. The system is broken, and I don't know how to fix it.

A 600 pound patient who never worked a day in his life can walk into our ER in respiratory failure secondary to the fat crushing his lungs and spend a year in the ICU costing the state millions of dollars with no hope of recovery and never spending a dime. Meanwhile, I've had my son forego a single X-ray because it would cost me, an insured employee of the hospital, 200 dollars. (He was fine, the tendency to rush for imaging is another problem)

I repeat. The system is farked. Not paying your doctor well is not the answer.

/need to get outside on my day off...
2012-11-15 12:41:07 PM  
1 votes:

DubyaHater: Good farking luck. With constant cuts to Medicare reimbursement (and insurance companies following suit), the pay isn't worth a career in family medicine. Maybe if there were more incentives (college and medical school loan forgiveness), you might have a chance.


I think part of our Veterans' Job Corp program, that I fervently wish existed, should be grants, not loans, to veterans to attend nursing and medical school provided they score high enough on the MCAT and maintain a predetermined, decent grade point average.

Later, civilians could be folded in to the program provided they agreed to "repay" the grant by working for a minimum of two or four years, whatever is decided, in a high need region as assigned by the federal government.
2012-11-15 12:28:21 PM  
1 votes:

karmaceutical: Maybe... just maybe... medical professionals should be in the profession because they genuinely want to heal, and not let the "half as much as a specialist" drive their decision.


Well if they weren't carrying crushing debt that's immune to bankruptcy maybe they could afford to accept a paycut like that.
2012-11-15 12:22:26 PM  
1 votes:

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Occam's Disposable Razor: Lots of comments about finding docs who aren't in it for the money. Stack up a quarter of a million in student loan debt and go be altruistic in Africa in your 30s while the interer accumulates. See how that goes.

Is doctor income driven by student loan debt? Or is medical school cost a function of what they know they can get away with charging? It seems a convenient excuse. If the local oncologist was puttering around in a '97 Sentra I'd believe this argument.


Doctor income needs to remain high to attract the best and brightest and to give them a chance to pay that crap off. Medical schools, just like medical device manufacturers, medical license testing companies, drug companies, etc... can charge whatever the hell they want because we have to pay.

Funny you mention a Sentra. Our pediatric ophthalmologist drives one about that age. He's one of the only guys in the state who sees uninsured kids. Patients whose parents are 14 years old and illiterate. Most with congenital abnormalities and other horrific shiat. I'm aware he's the exception, but these people are out there. But you can't force people to live that life. He should make what the urologist in the rich neighborhood makes, but their pay doesn't necessarily need to be inverted.
2012-11-15 12:21:25 PM  
1 votes:

Pharmdawg:
In pharmacy school rotations, we followed different physicians a week at a time. Most of them met us at the hospital at 7 am to check on inpatients, got to their office at 9, then took an hour and a half or 2 hour lunch during which they went back to the hospital, then back to the office for more appointments til 4 or 5, then they let us go home while they went back to the hospital AGAIN.


Sounds like Internal Medicine. My wife did that last year as a residency. Twelve hour or longer shifts were pretty normal with twenty four hour and longer shifts here and there. Barely saw her all year.
2012-11-15 12:13:44 PM  
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: BronyMedic: Hey, submitter?

Do you know what pisses any healthcare provider, from a CNA to an MD off?

For someone to insinuate they do it for the money, or that their pay is what makes them happy.

/GPs make the world go around.

You're right. Rushing people out of appointments so that they could get to the next one makes them happy, not the money they make doing it.


Get mad at the bureaucrat scheduling the patients for that GP or resident. Not the guy who has 100 patients forced on him.
2012-11-15 12:12:04 PM  
1 votes:

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: O RLY? Then why is the industry suffering from such a lack of pro bono work?


In which area? One of the main problems driving Paramedic pay in the US right now in comparison of nurses is the attitude of Paramedics being "volunteer" while nurses are "Professional"

Non-traditionally volunteer health fields also have legal barriers to pro-bono work in some areas of clinical practice too. Again, RN.

Altruism and volunteerism is great. I volunteer with two departments for no reimbursement. But people have to make a living too.

SacriliciousBeerSwiller:
So they do fleece people, but they just have no choice and they don't want to do anything to offset it. Gotcha.


No one said that, and those are incredible mental gymnastics. 10/10 bro
2012-11-15 12:11:06 PM  
1 votes:

orclover: Much like the "nursing shortage", the problem isnt that you cant find enough people to fill the jobs. You could easily fill all the job openings with the available candidates, and you would fill them with adequately skilled employees. The problem is they want to fill them for as close to minimum wage as they can get away with, and they cant do it. You have enough of a workforce available. But you dont have a glut of employees desperate for work and willing to work for a pittance.

Yea tough shiat.


Same with the nonexistent pharmacist shortage a couple years ago
2012-11-15 11:59:36 AM  
1 votes:

Occam's Disposable Razor: It'd be like saying, the plumbing industry needs more people interested in pulling shiat out of toilets for the good of humanity. I'm not paying 100 bucks an hour for that! That engineer should build a bridge that doesn't collapse because he loves helping people get to work without dying, he doesn't need to be paid much for his specialized training and ability.


Neither of those industries exploit human suffering to drive clients to financial ruin. So answer this: how much money IS too much? At what point do you think it's too much? When we're all spending 50% of our income on basic preventative medicine? 80%? 90%? Throw a number out.
2012-11-15 11:56:50 AM  
1 votes:

robohobo: Lol, GP's. Most of the people my wife went to school wife who ended up GP's were the worst students in her class.


Classy..

GPs I've met have been some of the most down to earth and caring doctors. Not everyone is going to make it into a specialist slot, that doesn't mean they'll be a bad doctor.
2012-11-15 11:55:15 AM  
1 votes:

Occam's Disposable Razor: Lots of comments about finding docs who aren't in it for the money. Stack up a quarter of a million in student loan debt and go be altruistic in Africa in your 30s while the interer accumulates. See how that goes.


Is doctor income driven by student loan debt? Or is medical school cost a function of what they know they can get away with charging? It seems a convenient excuse. If the local oncologist was puttering around in a '97 Sentra I'd believe this argument.
2012-11-15 11:48:43 AM  
1 votes:

BronyMedic: Pharmdawg: GP positions can largely be filled by NPs and PAs, and just have a GP available for consults.

Or Community Care Paramedics. GPs are still necessary for oversight however.

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: The medical industry needs more people who are genuinely interested in helping humanity, and not just in it for the fleecing of the vulnerable.

Guess what? 99% of them are. While there ARE pay issues at some levels, no one goes into work with the normal mindset of fleecing someone.


O RLY? Then why is the industry suffering from such a lack of pro bono work?
2012-11-15 11:20:45 AM  
1 votes:

InfrasonicTom: HERE THEY ARE!!!!

[www.mapsofindia.com image 501x557]


You have nailed it.
If you are admitted to a hospital today, chances are your regular doctor will not be taking care of you.
Learn fast to understand that heavy Indian accent,
And if you think that your doctor doesn't care about you and is only concerned about the money, just wait for that certain subcontinent attitude.
That's the only reason they come here. For the money.
2012-11-15 11:18:35 AM  
1 votes:

Carth: R66YRobo: karmaceutical: Maybe... just maybe... medical professionals should be in the profession because they genuinely want to heal, and not let the "half as much as a specialist" drive their decision.

While I will applaud anyone who goes into the profession on altruistic motives, I've never understood this reasoning. While there is a base assumption that people should go into careers they find personally fulfilling in some manner, we don't expect businessmen, lawyers, engineers, politicians, or a host of other professions to effectively take salary cuts because they should be doing their jobs for the love of their work. And yet specialized professions like doctors and teachers are expected to enter a field that screws them financially because we apparently have either a lot of saints running. If you want people to enter a career, and want to attract top talent, make it more appealing through better working conditions, better pay, or better benefits.

Or we could just create incentives for needed fields by forgiving student loans and subsidizing malpractice insurance.


Yeah, it has the same effect of making the career more appealing, just be lowering entry barriers (school costs) and reducing financial burdens (insurance) associated with the work.

/realize now that I managed to start a thought and completely fail to finish it in my Boobies. I swear, I type like a chipmunk on speed sometimes, get distracted by something can't finish a
2012-11-15 11:13:35 AM  
1 votes:

jayhawk88: I don't know, sounds like a pretty sweet gig to me:

- Triple book appointments all day, show up 25 minutes late to each one of them after the nurses have done all the actual diagnostic work
- Listen to the person gripe about whatever for 5 minutes
- Tell them that viruses just have to run their course, they should go home, sleep, and drink plenty of fluids
- If they look at you funny, realize they were complaining about a pulled muscle instead of the flu, write them a script for Loratab
- 3:30 already? Quitting time!


The days of this shiat are coming to an end. If anyone reading this sees a physician who behaves in this manner, find a new one. They're out there, and they're better. That behavior could get by a few generations ago when we didn't have treatments for much, but medical knowledge continues to expand at a shocking rate. It's hard enough to keep up in one field, impossible for all of them, but we can do so much now. And so can patients. The internet allows people to really get a handle on their disease often times, if they can avoid some of the pseudoscience on the web. It's a really great time to be in medicine, and you deserve to be seen by a doctor who thinks so too.
2012-11-15 11:09:13 AM  
1 votes:

R66YRobo: karmaceutical: Maybe... just maybe... medical professionals should be in the profession because they genuinely want to heal, and not let the "half as much as a specialist" drive their decision.

While I will applaud anyone who goes into the profession on altruistic motives, I've never understood this reasoning. While there is a base assumption that people should go into careers they find personally fulfilling in some manner, we don't expect businessmen, lawyers, engineers, politicians, or a host of other professions to effectively take salary cuts because they should be doing their jobs for the love of their work. And yet specialized professions like doctors and teachers are expected to enter a field that screws them financially because we apparently have either a lot of saints running. If you want people to enter a career, and want to attract top talent, make it more appealing through better working conditions, better pay, or better benefits.


Or we could just create incentives for needed fields by forgiving student loans and subsidizing malpractice insurance.
2012-11-15 11:03:00 AM  
1 votes:
In 10-20 years the shortage of doctors practicing geriatric medicine will be a big problem. It will be interesting to see how the medical profession draws people into the less desirable fields.
2012-11-15 10:59:55 AM  
1 votes:
You have to greatly increase the size or number of medical schools in the US to do that. Current graduations are not keeping up with the number of people leaving the profession, plus the demands of universal healthcare and population growth.

Another part of the problem is the cost of school vs how much the person will make as a family doctor or GP. The reality is a family doctor can have a comfortable middle class lifestyle, but never become wealthy. But not until they spend many years of their life paying off the mountain of debt they accumulated in medical school.

The more I read about the French Healthcare System the more I like it. Part of the French system is that the Government runs most of the medical schools and doctors graduate with no debt. They don't become wealthy under the French system, but they are comfortably upper middle class and there are a lot of them.
2012-11-15 10:58:15 AM  
1 votes:

Pharmdawg: GP positions can largely be filled by NPs and PAs, and just have a GP available for consults.


Or Community Care Paramedics. GPs are still necessary for oversight however.

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: The medical industry needs more people who are genuinely interested in helping humanity, and not just in it for the fleecing of the vulnerable.


Guess what? 99% of them are. While there ARE pay issues at some levels, no one goes into work with the normal mindset of fleecing someone.
2012-11-15 10:56:27 AM  
1 votes:

robohobo: Lol, GP's. Most of the people my wife went to school wife who ended up GP's were the worst students in her class.


Lots of my classmates who went with family medicine certainly weren't superstars, but a few were very sharp and will make excellent physicians. Don't underestimate the appeal of a short residency, lower stress, fewer hours, and the ability to send all your tough cases off to see the specialists.

The new selling point for family practice programs is "lifestyle." Work a 35-40 hour week for 150k and leave the competition and intense grind to those type A people who are only happy while working. Sure, you're the least compensated of doctors, but the money is still excellent by most standards, and maybe you get to enjoy life more.

Personally, I went for low hours and better compensation with a surgical sub speciality. It's rewarding work, but at the end of the day it's still work.

I think family medicine should keep pushing lifestyle as their selling point. Get some sort of loan reimbursement or debt forgiveness going, and it should be an easy enough sell to med students who are looking to actually settle down and get to know their wife and kids.
2012-11-15 10:55:27 AM  
1 votes:
The medical industry needs more people who are genuinely interested in helping humanity, and not just in it for the fleecing of the vulnerable.
2012-11-15 10:55:24 AM  
1 votes:

karmaceutical: Maybe... just maybe... medical professionals should be in the profession because they genuinely want to heal, and not let the "half as much as a specialist" drive their decision.


Some hobbies are too expensive to try to make careers out of.
2012-11-15 10:54:06 AM  
1 votes:
Hey, submitter?

Do you know what pisses any healthcare provider, from a CNA to an MD off?

For someone to insinuate they do it for the money, or that their pay is what makes them happy.

/GPs make the world go around.
2012-11-15 10:42:37 AM  
1 votes:
Good farking luck. With constant cuts to Medicare reimbursement (and insurance companies following suit), the pay isn't worth a career in family medicine. Maybe if there were more incentives (college and medical school loan forgiveness), you might have a chance.
2012-11-15 10:16:32 AM  
1 votes:
You can be a GP and work 80 hours a week and pull down half as much as a specialist that works half the hours.

Tough choice, really.
2012-11-15 09:12:26 AM  
1 votes:
More people (n general) + more old people + more insured people = need for more doctors.

Simple math, really...
 
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