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(Baseball Writers Association)   To the surprise of approximately zero people, NY Mets knuckleballer R.A. Dickey wins 2012 National League Cy Young Award   (bbwaa.com) divider line 57
    More: Obvious, R.A. Dickey, Mets, knuckleball pitch, Cy Young Award, Major League Baseball, Tom Glavine, Johnny Cueto, American League  
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533 clicks; posted to Sports » on 15 Nov 2012 at 12:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-14 09:10:50 PM
Hell yes!
 
2012-11-14 09:26:08 PM
Add him to the long list of ex Mariners that went on to success after they left.

Happy for him, would have been nice if he'd figured out that knuckle thingie while he was still here.
 
2012-11-14 09:34:00 PM
Everyone should read his autobiography: Wherever I Wind Up. Great, great story.
 
2012-11-14 09:39:37 PM
Statistically, Kershaw had a good shot at getting the nod... but Dickey's a better story, being an old knuckleballer and all. Besides, even though I'm a Dodgers fan, I can't hate on Dickey since I picked him up for just $1 on my fantasy team
 
2012-11-14 11:04:08 PM
I'm glad Dickey got the Cy. The knuckleball is just too much fun to watch. That being said, have the baseball powers that be decided that we'll never give the Cy to a reliever again, because Craig Kimbrel just turned in (arguably) the best season in relief of the live ball era.
 
2012-11-15 12:05:59 AM
Good for him. I know he's on a division rival, but still, this guy's story is a good one, and he's deserving of the award.
It amazes me too, that he started throwing the knuckleball by accident, thinking it was some sort of forkball.

The major leagues needs more knuckleballers.

dameron: That being said, have the baseball powers that be decided that we'll never give the Cy to a reliever again, because Craig Kimbrel just turned in (arguably) the best season in relief of the live ball era.


the way I understand the train of thought of some of the writers, is that a relief pitcher, no matter how great the performance, just will never have the same impact, over the course of a season, that a great starting pitcher. I think the innings difference plays a big part of that. A relief pitcher gets what, maybe 80 innings a year? Whereas a starting pitcher, the great ones anyway, can go over 200 innings a year.

Its been brought up that perhaps then, there should be a separate award for relief pitchers, but I don't think that's gotten anywhere.
 
2012-11-15 12:47:13 AM

dameron: I'm glad Dickey got the Cy. The knuckleball is just too much fun to watch. That being said, have the baseball powers that be decided that we'll never give the Cy to a reliever again, because Craig Kimbrel just turned in (arguably) the best season in relief of the live ball era.


Craig Kimbrel had an absurdly fantastic year, but the best relief season belongs to someone throwing more than 62.2 innings.
 
2012-11-15 12:48:34 AM

SilentStrider: Its been brought up that perhaps then, there should be a separate award for relief pitchers, but I don't think that's gotten anywhere.


If only there was a famous antacid brand that was willing to lend its name to a relief pitcher award

i.ytimg.com
 
2012-11-15 12:48:49 AM
No fan of the Mets, and as a Giants fan, I'm certainly no fan of the Dodgers, but as a baseball fan I have to say the baseball writers got it right this time and Dickey and Kershaw definitely deserved to be voted #1 and #2, in that order. And again as a Giants fan, I'll admit that Dodger Matt Kemp got absolutely robbed by not being voted MVP last year as he richly deserved, and hopefully the Giants wll not be similarly robbed tomorrow when this year's MVP awards are announced and Buster Posey will be given his due recognition.

/submitter of this one
 
2012-11-15 12:56:32 AM
Good for R.A. His story should become a movie.
 
2012-11-15 01:04:17 AM

SilentStrider: Its been brought up that perhaps then, there should be a separate award for relief pitchers, but I don't think that's gotten anywhere.


Yeah, I think there should be a relief specific award too, butI was more pointing out that relievers do sometimes get the award (Gagne etc.) but if you'd ever give it to a reliever Kimbrel in 2012 would be the guy.
 
2012-11-15 01:05:10 AM

Cyberluddite: hopefully the Giants wll not be similarly robbed tomorrow when this year's MVP awards are announced and Buster Posey will be given his due recognition.


I will be shocked if Posey is not named MVP this year.

/Dodger fan
 
2012-11-15 01:13:59 AM

Maybe you should drive: Cyberluddite: hopefully the Giants wll not be similarly robbed tomorrow when this year's MVP awards are announced and Buster Posey will be given his due recognition.

I will be shocked if Posey is not named MVP this year.

/Dodger fan


And I would be shocked if Mr. Cabrera is not named AL MVP
 
2012-11-15 01:16:24 AM

AliceBToklasLives: Maybe you should drive: Cyberluddite: hopefully the Giants wll not be similarly robbed tomorrow when this year's MVP awards are announced and Buster Posey will be given his due recognition.

I will be shocked if Posey is not named MVP this year.

/Dodger fan

And I would be shocked if Mr. Cabrera is not named AL MVP


I fully expect Cabrera to win it.

That said, it should go to Trout.
 
2012-11-15 01:16:40 AM

zarberg: If only there was a famous antacid brand that was willing to lend its name to a relief pitcher award


That's an award given by Rolaids. It's nice but it doesn't carry the same weight as being recognized by your industry.
 
2012-11-15 01:37:41 AM

dameron: zarberg: If only there was a famous antacid brand that was willing to lend its name to a relief pitcher award

That's an award given by Rolaids. It's nice but it doesn't carry the same weight as being recognized by your industry.


Well, it is sponsored by Rolaids, but more importantly it is a purely statistical award and only applies to closers.
 
2012-11-15 02:15:41 AM
As A Met fan and not really reading this thread, can I be the first to say, this does nothing? This team as a whole sucked - for years. One decent starting pitcher for one year does nothing. No power. shiatty defense. Bullpen has been a joke for a decade. Players do not respect the manager. Team is literally bankrupt. Anything else?

/As a Met fan - fark the Mets.
 
2012-11-15 02:15:41 AM
As a Mets fan, I'm glad he got the award. Every time he started this year, we always thought it could be the one. Santana finally got the no hitter but it was R.A. we always wanted to watch, even after the no-no. The story of him is just amazing, plus the fact he perfected a pitch that is imperfect.
He really kept me interested in what happens, even after the Mets were done. Every start of his was something you planned around.
I'm just happy for him, his family and everyone that supported him. He is about as true underdog story as there is out there.

/still think the Mets suck and are broke
 
2012-11-15 02:25:30 AM

sp0rtsfan86: even after the no-no.


Yeah, we finally got a NoNo. Yet, still it's a Met NoNo. You would have a good argument, it never should have been.

/As a Met fan - fark the Mets.
 
2012-11-15 02:28:00 AM
Dickey is a cool dude and he deserved it.
 
2012-11-15 02:37:27 AM

ozarkmatt: As A Met fan and not really reading this thread, can I be the first to say, this does nothing? This team as a whole sucked - for years. One decent starting pitcher for one year does nothing. No power. shiatty defense. Bullpen has been a joke for a decade. Players do not respect the manager. Team is literally bankrupt. Anything else?

/As a Met fan - fark the Mets.


The Mets are in better shape than they were in 2003 or 1993. Have some goddamned perspective.
 
2012-11-15 02:38:48 AM

Bonanza Jellybean: Dickey is a cool dude and he deserved it.


Ah, don't get me wrong, yes he deserved it. The man was awesome this year. But the team - sigh - the team - needs more than him.

/As a Met fan - fark the Mets.
 
2012-11-15 02:39:26 AM
sp0rtsfan86: even after the no-no.

Yeah, we finally got a NoNo. Yet, still it's a Met NoNo. You would have a good argument, it never should have been.

/As a Met fan - fark the Mets.


I watched that whole game, I wasn't interested much at first but after the 4th inning thought it could be. Just hearing the response of the announcers was amazing, They were in shock it happened too.

/Still don't care it was a no-no despite Beltran. Need more instant replay.
 
2012-11-15 02:40:53 AM

Dafatone: The Mets are in better shape than they were in 2003 or 1993. Have some goddamned perspective.


I don't give a fark where they were in 2003 or 1993. The perspective that matters is where they are in 2013.
 
2012-11-15 02:43:11 AM

ozarkmatt: Dafatone: The Mets are in better shape than they were in 2003 or 1993. Have some goddamned perspective.

I don't give a fark where they were in 2003 or 1993. The perspective that matters is where they are in 2013.


If you're going to be all "wah everything is the worst," at least be right about it.
 
2012-11-15 02:46:31 AM

Dafatone: "wah everything is the worst,


Uh, yeah. Until I am proven wrong, that will be my default position.

Have you actually paid attention to this team over the past few years?
 
2012-11-15 02:48:49 AM

ozarkmatt: Dafatone: "wah everything is the worst,

Uh, yeah. Until I am proven wrong, that will be my default position.

Have you actually paid attention to this team over the past few years?


Yeah. I just don't whine about a few 70-something win seasons. I've seen much worse.
 
2012-11-15 02:57:05 AM

Dafatone: Yeah. I just don't whine about a few 70-something win seasons. I've seen much worse.



OK, your team spends a shiat load of cash to build a team. You are the leftovers of your media market. Again, your team spent A shiat LOAD.

You got nothing.

And you have no cash for shiat.

- 70 win seasons SHOULD NOT be the problem for these guys.
 
2012-11-15 03:00:16 AM
My point is, great there was a Cy Young.

My point is, it does not help a team.

A team in the biggest media market - had a division title at the All-Star Break.

Became crap.
 
2012-11-15 04:03:26 AM

dameron: I'm glad Dickey got the Cy. The knuckleball is just too much fun to watch. That being said, have the baseball powers that be decided that we'll never give the Cy to a reliever again, because Craig Kimbrel just turned in (arguably) the best season in relief of the live ball era.


Entertainingly, he may not have even had the best season in relief THIS YEAR (Fernando Rodney: 0.60 ERA, 0.78 WHIP, 15ERA-, 2.4WAR vs 1.01 ERA, .65 WHIP, 26 ERA-, 3.6WAR)

Kimbrel's is more likely to be sustainable, but Rodney had the lowest ERA in baseball history for anyone with 50+ innings.
 
2012-11-15 08:19:13 AM

ozarkmatt: My point is, it does not help a team.


It's an individual award. Not a team award. Your point is invalid.

ozarkmatt: A team in the biggest media market - had a division title at the All-Star Break.


You were getting your hopes up at the All-Star break? I wish I had your optimism as a Mets fan. Years of mediocrity has taught me to remain skeptical until the season is over to even begin to get my hopes up they won't screw the pooch. If you really want to start gnashing your teeth about being a woeful Mets fan try stepping into the shoes of a Cubs fan. I feel far more sorry for those guys than I do my fellow Mets fans.
 
2012-11-15 08:23:03 AM
dameron:That being said, have the baseball powers that be decided that we'll never give the Cy to a reliever again, because Craig Kimbrel just turned in (arguably) the best season in relief of the live ball era.

Kimbrel's season doesn't even remotely compare to Eric Gagne's 2003 season. Arguments could be made about Gagne's subsequent naming in the Mitchell Report, but statistically that season of Gagne's was far beyond Kimbrel's this year.

Then again, I also would've voted for Gio Gonzalez to get Cy Young this year.
 
2012-11-15 08:39:13 AM

sp0rtsfan86: As a Mets fan, I'm glad he got the award. Every time he started this year, we always thought it could be the one. Santana finally got the no hitter but it was R.A. we always wanted to watch, even after the no-no. The story of him is just amazing, plus the fact he perfected a pitch that is imperfect.


Didnt Dickey throw complete game, one hitter, shut outs in his two starts following Santana's no hitter?
 
2012-11-15 08:41:45 AM

devioustrevor: Then again, I also would've voted for Gio Gonzalez to get Cy Young this year.


There were solid arguments for Aroldis Chapman too. I'm not surprised by a long shot, but I wouldn't be surprised if it went to Gio, Kershaw, Dickey, or Chapman. Anyone else and I would've shiat briaks.
 
2012-11-15 08:43:54 AM

Gunny Highway: Didnt Dickey throw complete game, one hitter, shut outs in his two starts following Santana's no hitter?


Yes. And IIRC one was disputably a no-hitter pending how a scorer marks a weird hop on the edge of grass and dirt.

Dickey was my pick up of the year for fantasy baseball.
 
2012-11-15 09:26:12 AM

Gunny Highway: sp0rtsfan86: As a Mets fan, I'm glad he got the award. Every time he started this year, we always thought it could be the one. Santana finally got the no hitter but it was R.A. we always wanted to watch, even after the no-no. The story of him is just amazing, plus the fact he perfected a pitch that is imperfect.

Didnt Dickey throw complete game, one hitter, shut outs in his two starts following Santana's no hitter?


Yeah. He would have had a perfect game in the second one but for two plays by Wright at third, one of which went for an infield hit and the other an error (which begat the baserunner that ended his scoreless inning streak).
 
2012-11-15 09:27:50 AM

jimpoz: Didnt Dickey throw complete game, one hitter, shut outs in his two starts following Santana's no hitter?

Yeah.


By "yeah," I mean that he threw two consecutive one-hitters, but the second one wasn't a shutout.

/last guy to throw two consecutive one-hitters: Dave Stieb
//each hit came with two outs in the ninth
 
2012-11-15 10:20:08 AM

ozarkmatt: Dafatone: Yeah. I just don't whine about a few 70-something win seasons. I've seen much worse.


OK, your team spends a shiat load of cash to build a team. You are the leftovers of your media market. Again, your team spent A shiat LOAD.

You got nothing.

And you have no cash for shiat.

- 70 win seasons SHOULD NOT be the problem for these guys.


93m is a shiatload? Hilariously, that's just under the Twins and just above the Cubs in payroll. And I don't really care about being "leftovers" in the media market. Still way better than not being in a market.

ozarkmatt: A team in the biggest media market - had a division title at the All-Star Break.


They were 3.5 out at the break. Anyone actually watching the team knew they had no shot. The team had 3 starting pitchers go down and was winning all their close games, which is to say, they were getting lucky.

I'll be pissed if/when the Mets start making bad teambuilding decisions. They haven't really, at least in the past couple seasons. They just have a bunch of bad old contracts lying around that they need to clear out.
 
2012-11-15 11:45:00 AM

puffy999: Good for R.A. His story should become a movie.


With Timothy Busfield as RA
 
2012-11-15 11:48:29 AM

Dafatone: ozarkmatt: Dafatone: Yeah. I just don't whine about a few 70-something win seasons. I've seen much worse.


OK, your team spends a shiat load of cash to build a team. You are the leftovers of your media market. Again, your team spent A shiat LOAD.

You got nothing.

And you have no cash for shiat.

- 70 win seasons SHOULD NOT be the problem for these guys.

93m is a shiatload? Hilariously, that's just under the Twins and just above the Cubs in payroll. And I don't really care about being "leftovers" in the media market. Still way better than not being in a market.

ozarkmatt: A team in the biggest media market - had a division title at the All-Star Break.

They were 3.5 out at the break. Anyone actually watching the team knew they had no shot. The team had 3 starting pitchers go down and was winning all their close games, which is to say, they were getting lucky.

I'll be pissed if/when the Mets start making bad teambuilding decisions. They haven't really, at least in the past couple seasons. They just have a bunch of bad old contracts lying around that they need to clear out.


Well. to be fair, the Mets do have a history of picking up big ticket players past their peak like other big market teams. It just seems to bite them in the ass more often than not because they haven't really just said "fark it" for a decade to build up their farm system. The last time I actually got excited about the prospect of the Mets being set for a while was when Wright and Reyes first came up, and we've seen how that turned out.
 
2012-11-15 11:48:31 AM

Generation_D: Add him to the long list of ex Mariners that went on to success after they left.

Happy for him, would have been nice if he'd figured out that knuckle thingie while he was still here.


To be fair, the M's were just one of many organizations he passed through. Nobody knew what they had in him, including the Mets, who cut him two years ago.

But congrats to Dickey for a well-deserved award.
 
2012-11-15 11:57:28 AM

Super Chronic: Nobody knew what they had in him, including the Mets, who cut him two years ago.


They all knew; he just didn't have it. RAD was throwing his knuckler as a Mariner, but he had to tweak the pitch quite a bit, which is not unusual for knuckleballers.

What's interesting is where he goes from here. Wakefield is the only knuckler I've ever known and he had one unreal year vs. a ton of mediocre ones, but RAD is (for all I know) the ONLY exclusive thrower of a hard knuckleball in major league history.
 
2012-11-15 12:09:38 PM

Dafatone: dameron: I'm glad Dickey got the Cy. The knuckleball is just too much fun to watch. That being said, have the baseball powers that be decided that we'll never give the Cy to a reliever again, because Craig Kimbrel just turned in (arguably) the best season in relief of the live ball era.

Craig Kimbrel had an absurdly fantastic year, but the best relief season belongs to someone throwing more than 62.2 innings.


While I don't necessarily disagree, I just want to throw out "98-64". That would have been the Brewers record had they converted HALF of their blown saves. It boggles my mind. I am not saying there is a valid reason or logical argument for a closer or even a reliever getting a Cy Young, just that a bad season by one can tank a team.

Honestly, I think that there should be separate "MVPs" for starters, relievers, and field-playing offensive players without having any overlap. I find it ridiculous that a starter could win an award that a right fielder cannot compete for and still win the overall MVP when only appearing in a fifth of the team's games.

///The DH is an abomination and deserves no consideration for anything related to positive achievement. That being said, I would still rather see the NL adopt it than continuing to play a completely separate game.
 
2012-11-15 12:16:40 PM

jackiepaper: puffy999: Good for R.A. His story should become a movie.

With Timothy Busfield Jonah Hill as RA

 
2012-11-15 12:25:03 PM
Good for R.A. was fun to pull for / watch him pitch even though it was for the Mets.

/Former Vol trifecta in play
 
2012-11-15 12:35:57 PM
It surprises me. Not because he didn't deserve it (he did) but because I never thought they would vote in a voodoo-ball pitcher for the Cy Young award.

I am pleased to stand corrected.
 
2012-11-15 12:43:43 PM

devioustrevor: dameron:That being said, have the baseball powers that be decided that we'll never give the Cy to a reliever again, because Craig Kimbrel just turned in (arguably) the best season in relief of the live ball era.

Kimbrel's season doesn't even remotely compare to Eric Gagne's 2003 season. Arguments could be made about Gagne's subsequent naming in the Mitchell Report, but statistically that season of Gagne's was far beyond Kimbrel's this year.

Then again, I also would've voted for Gio Gonzalez to get Cy Young this year.



[lolwut.jpg]


Gagne appeared in 10 more games, pitched about 20 more innings, and had 12 more saves. All of the pitching stats, though (e.g., whip, ERA, K/9, K/BB) are in Kimbrel's favor. Not sure where the "remotely compare" statement comes from. Statistically, Kimbrel had one of the best seasons (if not the best season) ever by a reliever.

The only thing that is certain from the Cy Young vote is that the writers will not allow a reliever to win it again. Is it fair to not give the award to a played that pitches so few innings? Maybe. But, IMO, it's ridiculous that Kimbrel did not finish higher than 5th in the voting.
 
2012-11-15 12:58:17 PM

The_Great_Hambino: devioustrevor: dameron:That being said, have the baseball powers that be decided that we'll never give the Cy to a reliever again, because Craig Kimbrel just turned in (arguably) the best season in relief of the live ball era.

Kimbrel's season doesn't even remotely compare to Eric Gagne's 2003 season. Arguments could be made about Gagne's subsequent naming in the Mitchell Report, but statistically that season of Gagne's was far beyond Kimbrel's this year.

Then again, I also would've voted for Gio Gonzalez to get Cy Young this year.


[lolwut.jpg]


Gagne appeared in 10 more games, pitched about 20 more innings, and had 12 more saves. All of the pitching stats, though (e.g., whip, ERA, K/9, K/BB) are in Kimbrel's favor. Not sure where the "remotely compare" statement comes from. Statistically, Kimbrel had one of the best seasons (if not the best season) ever by a reliever.


You're also forgetting one other thing about Gagne that year. 55-0 in save opportunities.
 
2012-11-15 01:02:10 PM
Question for you farkers:

FTA: Below is a breakdown of the 32 individual ballots, submitted by two writers representing each team in the National League. Note that in some cases (*), when a city does not have enough eligible voters, a writer from another city will represent that chapter.

Why don't some cities have enough eligible voters? ATL only had one, and HOU had zero. I know it's Texas, but there has to be two people in Houston that can vote.
 
2012-11-15 01:03:50 PM

The_Great_Hambino: devioustrevor: dameron:That being said, have the baseball powers that be decided that we'll never give the Cy to a reliever again, because Craig Kimbrel just turned in (arguably) the best season in relief of the live ball era.

Kimbrel's season doesn't even remotely compare to Eric Gagne's 2003 season. Arguments could be made about Gagne's subsequent naming in the Mitchell Report, but statistically that season of Gagne's was far beyond Kimbrel's this year.

Then again, I also would've voted for Gio Gonzalez to get Cy Young this year.


[lolwut.jpg]


Gagne appeared in 10 more games, pitched about 20 more innings, and had 12 more saves. All of the pitching stats, though (e.g., whip, ERA, K/9, K/BB) are in Kimbrel's favor. Not sure where the "remotely compare" statement comes from. Statistically, Kimbrel had one of the best seasons (if not the best season) ever by a reliever.

The only thing that is certain from the Cy Young vote is that the writers will not allow a reliever to win it again. Is it fair to not give the award to a played that pitches so few innings? Maybe. But, IMO, it's ridiculous that Kimbrel did not finish higher than 5th in the voting.


Fair or unfair, Gagne's 55 for 55 made a big difference. And 20 innings more is a ton for a reliever. I don't think I'd say that there's no chance of a reliever ever winning again. If Kimbrel had a similar season to this year, plus pitched more than an average workload for a reliever, he'd be up there.

/Cueto should've been higher, pitching in Cinci. Gio should've been lower.
//Go Dickey.
 
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