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(AZ Family)   "There are times when you get old like this, you feel like you've lived too damn long" Man arrested for helping wife die in mercy killing   (azfamily.com) divider line 60
    More: Sad, euthanasias, Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, first call, MCSO, 3TV  
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10651 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Nov 2012 at 4:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-11-14 04:52:25 PM
6 votes:
It's sad that my dog will have a more humane end when he gets near the end of his days than I will.
2012-11-14 04:52:09 PM
6 votes:

TimonC346: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

It's really odd--the people who tend to be against mercy killing are all for the Death Penalty. That's...odd.


They want to be In Charge. That's the point - control.
2012-11-14 04:49:48 PM
6 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?


tallskinnykiwi.typepad.com
2012-11-14 05:02:22 PM
4 votes:
if he gets his blankets, he won't use them to keep warm.
2012-11-14 04:56:49 PM
4 votes:

F22raptom: Lol well he is a killer and should stay locked up. if he really loved his wife, getting locked up shouldnt be a problem for him. The nazi's are old innocent looking killers too.


You're an asshole
2012-11-14 04:50:29 PM
4 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?


It's really odd--the people who tend to be against mercy killing are all for the Death Penalty. That's...odd.
2012-11-14 04:42:04 PM
4 votes:
If we didn't have such a hang-up over quantity over quality, there would be no stigma over someone ending their own life, so they didn't have to ask a loved one to be merciful and kill them.
2012-11-14 05:15:11 PM
3 votes:

Sad King Billy: Two hundred years from now, people are going to think that this era was as barbarous as we think the dark ages were. There's no excuse for how we treat each other.


If they can read a corporate financial statement, they will understand perfectly.
2012-11-14 05:13:48 PM
3 votes:
Two hundred years from now, people are going to think that this era was as barbarous as we think the dark ages were. There's no excuse for how we treat each other.
2012-11-14 05:00:29 PM
3 votes:
I agree that it's clearly murder under the law.

I think he should be convicted of it, and then sentenced to time served and informal probation.
2012-11-14 05:00:11 PM
3 votes:
I hope I hit that sweet spot where I still have the motor skills to move and fire my Glock, while also realizing the jig is about to be up and I need to go out on my own terms. I don't want to be immobile in some bed and having to mouth "Kill me" to the nurses.

What is sad is how many old people do kill themselves via refusing medical treatment. I've seen some older people basically reject another round of some expensive medical treatment, sitting at home and waiting for the sickness to carry them off. They should have a more humane outlet when they feel that time comes.
2012-11-14 04:56:47 PM
3 votes:

dywed88: As much as I sympathize with him and believe there should be legal routes that people like his wife can take and as much as I would like an opportunity to lay into the Maricopa County Sheriffs Office, this was (under the law) unquestionably murder and he should be convicted as such although I hope the sentence will be mitigated somewhat.


I'm not sure I can agree with a "well, it IS the law" mindset on some things. Not that this is exactly the same thing, but I doubt I could have brought myself, in the 1800s, to help convict someone for aiding in the escape of slaves, even if I watched them do it.
2012-11-14 04:52:11 PM
3 votes:

sariq: Jesus Christ. My parents are getting there. I have no idea what I'd do in a situation like this.


Tank of helium, a rubber hose and a plastic bag with an elastic draw string. Insert hose into bag, place bag over head, turn on helium. The helium replaces oxygen, but does not cause gasping, you pass out and then die from lack of oxygen.
2012-11-14 04:45:24 PM
3 votes:
And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?
2012-11-14 04:19:42 PM
3 votes:
Standing in black-and-white jail clothes for his first court appearance Saturday, Sanders quickly interjected, "my wife," when the judge characterized Virginia Sanders as "the victim." He also asked the judge for help after admitting he didn't understand or have "any experience" with the criminal justice system.

"Excuse me, can I ask you a favor?" George Sanders asked the judge before being taken back to his jail cell. "I'm so cold and I've been so cold. At my age my back is spasming and I can't stop. Could I be given a blanket or two?"


Damn.
2012-11-14 05:25:40 PM
2 votes:
Jury trial.
Nullify.
2012-11-14 05:24:15 PM
2 votes:
Mom died two years ago. In a hospice with LOTS of morphine. Her last words were: "Oh goody! I get to die and it doesn't hurt."

/bless that doctor
2012-11-14 05:13:29 PM
2 votes:

sariq: Jesus Christ. My parents are getting there. I have no idea what I'd do in a situation like this.


Make sure they have advanced directives. Very thorough advanced directives.
2012-11-14 05:10:25 PM
2 votes:
Narcotics, sleeping pills, and alcohol.

Morphine, diazepam and whiskey will work.
2012-11-14 05:08:41 PM
2 votes:

Relatively Obscure: dywed88: As much as I sympathize with him and believe there should be legal routes that people like his wife can take and as much as I would like an opportunity to lay into the Maricopa County Sheriffs Office, this was (under the law) unquestionably murder and he should be convicted as such although I hope the sentence will be mitigated somewhat.

I'm not sure I can agree with a "well, it IS the law" mindset on some things. Not that this is exactly the same thing, but I doubt I could have brought myself, in the 1800s, to help convict someone for aiding in the escape of slaves, even if I watched them do it.


I suppose I should say that I understand the law and can justify it. Especially when the man kills his wife in their home. I do believe his motivation, but I don't think events as described here should be legal. There is way too much room for exploitation and other issues. I believe that it should be decided with the assistance of a doctor and have strong documentation to back it up. However as that is impossible, and for that reason alone I hope he gets off with minimal punishment (even if just released on compassionate grounds of some sort).

Now I entirely disagree with slavery and therefore cannot possibly justify laws supporting it. I put this closer to the "starving man steals a loaf of bread" category than refusing to follow inherently unjust laws.
2012-11-14 05:04:55 PM
2 votes:
If I ever develop some form of dementia or debilitating illness, I damn sure hope someone will help me kill myself. That's no way to live.
2012-11-14 05:02:02 PM
2 votes:

biyaaatci: He shot her and she didn't die until 2 days later. Why not another method which would not have been so horrific?


I suspect it was faulty assumptions that caused that, plus the hospital may have kept her alive for a while. Many people think a gunshot is quick, easy, and reliable way to kill instantly.
I blame media where all the regular people die at the slightest graze and the major characters can take dozens of bullets without flinching. This causes people to either overestimate or underestimate the typical effects of getting shot.
2012-11-14 04:59:10 PM
2 votes:
Why do these mercy killers go with shooting? Ugh that is not a good way to go, and too much chance for farking up and just really hurting yourself.

Carbon monoxide poisoning? Pills? If I ever ask any of you to mercy kill me, use those methods, kk thanks.

/these stories are incredibly sad, there should be legal end of life options for those who so choose
//since there aren't, though, asking your loved one to do it isn't really a good option either
2012-11-14 04:54:41 PM
2 votes:

TimonC346: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

It's really odd--the people who tend to be against mercy killing are all for the Death Penalty. That's...odd.


Blowing shiat up to protect blastocysts and ensuring old people live long lives of pain and misery.

That's pro-life!
2012-11-14 04:54:30 PM
2 votes:
My dad says that he doesn't want to go in a nursing home. If he goes for a walk in the woods and doesn't come back, don't go looking for a week. However, that seems unlikely to me. He's such a tough sumbiatch that he won't give up on living till well after he loses the capacity for walking.
2012-11-14 04:54:03 PM
2 votes:
TimonC346: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

It's really odd--the people who tend to be against mercy killing are all for the Death Penalty. That's...odd.

and against abortion! don't forget that one!

seriously, poor old guy. If assisted suicide laws were allowed, he wouldn't have had to shoot her. I wonder if the prosecutor will go ahead with 1st deg murder charges?
2012-11-14 04:53:11 PM
2 votes:
He shot her and she didn't die until 2 days later. Why not another method which would not have been so horrific?
2012-11-14 04:51:38 PM
2 votes:

TimonC346: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

It's really odd--the people who tend to be against mercy killing are all for the Death Penalty. That's...odd.


And seem to love war.
2012-11-14 04:50:12 PM
2 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?


I guess some people think that nobody in their right mind would want to die, and therefore anyone who wants to die is not in their right mind and shouldn't be allowed to make decisions. I guess.

I think there should, at least, be a way for people to check out. I'm not sure what I think that process should entail, though.
2012-11-14 04:44:42 PM
2 votes:
legacyofcensorship.wikispaces.com

You can get everything you need at Party City
2012-11-15 12:28:05 AM
1 votes:

Rik01: I worked in the health care field for years and I saw a lot of folks die a miserable, lengthy, lingering death because of the laws. I'm for assisted suicide, especially when a person reaches the stage where living turns into sheer hell and that hell gets even worse once their money is sucked away by the hideous cost of care.

I've seen families all but abandon seriously ill loved ones, usually leaving them in the care of expensive nursing homes or dumping them on a single family member as care taker -- which then overloads the family member and they can become sick.

I understand the hesitation over assisted suicide, and not because of religious reasons, but because of inheritance. People bump off their ill relatives already if they become a nuisance or have something valuable they want. Plus for a time, before insurance companies applied restrictions, people suicided to get their families out of deep debt.

Then there is the whole temporary and treatable depression thing, brought on by any number of causes.

Still, there are obvious cases where assisted suicide has been justified. One should be allowed to not only die with dignity but not have to drain every last penny they have and mortgage their home to pay the costs of being required to live.

Dr. Kevorkian was ahead of his time. His suicide machine should be patented and made available to those who need it on Dr.s orders. (Cheaply!)

It's dawned on me over time that it's not the quantity of life lived, but the quality. When you've had enough, you should be allowed to go, not linger in abject misery.


THIS SO G-D MUCH.

I'm not sure if this applies for every state in the US, but in the 4 states I've worked EMS in, a family member can rescind a dying person's do not resuscitate order.

I've been a paramedic for 17 years. When I first got into medicine, I thought I was going to be a LIFE SAVER! It didn't take long to realize that wasn't going to be the case.

One of the toughest calls I've ever ran was for a woman with end-stage cervical cancer. Her brother was an RN and helped her and her husband with end-of-life issues, along with her "do not resuscitate " order.

She went into cardiac arrest one day, and her husband called 911. We got on scene to find a grown woman who, due to her disease, was merely skin and bones - maybe 70 pounds at the most. Her husband had lost it - "Do whatever you can for her!"

We tried to talk him out of it, be he wouldn't budge - "Please, save her!" Since he was her husband, we had no choice but to COMPLETELY DISREGARD this woman's wishes and do what her husband wanted.

Have any of you ever done CPR? It's not like "Baywatch." You break ribs. You break sternums. CPR, when done correctly, can cause a lot of damage to a person.

We "did everything we could" for this poor woman, and took her to the hospital. Her brother (the RN) was waiting for us, and when we walked in with his sister, he looked at his brother-in-law and said, "What the hell are you doing?" His brother-in-law looked at him for a moment and just started crying...at that point, we were able to stop.

I ran this call at the beginning of my EMS career, and it's stayed with me. I remember it like it happened yesterday. I felt (and still feel) like I let her down, because I did to her exactly what she didn't want done...I tried to save her.

Why am I telling you this? Because this woman made an informed decision about the end of her life and how she wanted it handled (do not resuscitate), and when that moment came, her wishes went right out the window because of her husband deciding to rescind her do not resuscitate order.

I get it, people - that was her HUSBAND. I know he thought he was doing what was right. I know he loved her very much. I can't imagine how hard his wife's disease and death was for him...

...but it was hard for her, too. SHE was the one with cancer. SHE was the person dying. And SHE didn't want her life extended.

I guess my point is this - if you have a friend or family member who is sick and/or dying, and that friend or family member chooses to die on their own terms, HONOR THEIR WISHES.

If medicine has taught me anything, it's QUALITY of life, not QUANTITY. Rik01 is right.
2012-11-14 09:43:07 PM
1 votes:
no - a bullet is not a mercy killing
2012-11-14 07:12:23 PM
1 votes:
Wow. People giving their fellow FARKers suicide advice?

Classy.

/right to die should extend to right to humanely end your own life if you have terminal or a painful, intractable illness and are of right mind.
//Helping random people to kill themselves on the Internet on the other hand? No.
2012-11-14 06:00:24 PM
1 votes:
Rent Party:

Our motto "If I ever can't feed myself or wipe my own ass, just take me fishing. I'll figure out a way to fall out of the boat."

By the way, Dewar's White Label ain't half bad but it improves with a wee splash of club soda.
2012-11-14 05:57:04 PM
1 votes:
I feel terrible for this man. He did the honorable thing by trying to relieve the suffering of the woman he loved. The hospital took care of her pain while she was there.She has passed. MS is a horrible disease. I watched a neighbor suffer from it for 30 years. Now he has to suffer in jail, cold, with back spasms, and with the real criminals--he is NOT one of them. Let the man go free.

The picture of him breaks my heart. He is lost without her and is lost in the criminal justice system. I want to bring him to my house, give him a warm, safe place to live and a decent hot meal. I want to listen to the stories of his life with his wife. Give him a chance to remember her from the best of times--before she was the great cook, before she knew how to make that pie or pot roast better than his mother, and the day he found out he was to be a father, a grandfather.

The criminal justice system is wasting its time.
2012-11-14 05:46:49 PM
1 votes:

theMagni


Go to the coroner's office, fill out a form, get a psych evalution, take a pill, and then have a forever nap. Optional organ harvest if you ticked that box on the form.


Organ donors should go to the guillotine instead: the compounds in the pill might make the organs unusable.
2012-11-14 05:31:44 PM
1 votes:

pxlboy: jso2897: TimonC346: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

It's really odd--the people who tend to be against mercy killing are all for the Death Penalty. That's...odd.

They want to be In Charge. That's the point - control.

Exactly. I am fairly certain that suicide was made a mortal sin to keep the subjects miserable, malleable, and taxable.


IIRC that's more of the Catholic Church's handiwork.
2012-11-14 05:29:51 PM
1 votes:
I don't know how common the practice is but I had a friend who was left alone in the hospital room with he dying father. The doctor instructed her how to increase the morphine drip before he left "to lessen his pain".
2012-11-14 05:26:32 PM
1 votes:

pxlboy: jso2897: TimonC346: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

It's really odd--the people who tend to be against mercy killing are all for the Death Penalty. That's...odd.

They want to be In Charge. That's the point - control.

Exactly. I am fairly certain that suicide was made a mortal sin to keep the subjects miserable, malleable, and taxable.


It was made a mortal sin because they promised paradise in the afterlife to people who were living horribly harsh lives and they didn't want them checking out early.
2012-11-14 05:21:29 PM
1 votes:
After that, he told Maricopa County deputies the same thing, adding that his wife was sick and had recently been told by a doctor that she needed hospitalized.

www.antifeministtech.info
2012-11-14 05:18:17 PM
1 votes:

AcneVulgaris: FirstNationalBastard: If we didn't have such a hang-up over quantity over quality, there would be no stigma over someone ending their own life, so they didn't have to ask a loved one to be merciful and kill them.

It's those crazies and their magic book, farking thing up for everyone!


I like to blame it on a woman who cheated on her husband and then covered it up with a story about being pregnant by a diety.
2012-11-14 05:17:04 PM
1 votes:
sariq:

Jesus Christ. My parents are getting there. I have no idea what I'd do in a situation like this.

Shoot them and then yourself. You have a son to carry on The Family Name (TM), don't you?

But don't mess it up. This lady didn't die for several days after she was shot: that's not mercy. A deer slug to the back of the head should do it.
2012-11-14 05:12:42 PM
1 votes:

Broktun: Narcotics, sleeping pills, and alcohol.

Morphine, diazepam and whiskey will work.


Yep, I plan on squirreling away a couple dozen vicodin as I get older - the rest can be gotten at any time,

I hope I die peacefully in my sleep but if me or my wife is just plain old suffering at the end I don't think most people will judge too harshly.
2012-11-14 05:11:29 PM
1 votes:

Jument: I gotta say, it's pretty horrific that he botched it. If my wife asked me to help her die and I really, truly believed it was the right thing to do I'd make sure it was done a hell of a lot better than this guy.


No kidding, 2 days later? He probably shot her in the gut. I can see wanting to have an open casket and all, but just put a bullet in the heart. If you really have to, that is.
2012-11-14 05:10:25 PM
1 votes:
FTFA: the prosecutor at his arraignment did call this a "mercy killing."

At least the prosecutor hasn't gone full asshole, my guess plea deal, house arrest, and probation probably for the rest of is life since let's face it at 85 5 years of probation would be a long time.
2012-11-14 05:09:55 PM
1 votes:

ha-ha-guy: If you want good results, muzzle against the temple./i>

Wrong, many people live after doing this but because they see it in movies think it's a sure bet. All you do is blow out your eyes and suffer in agony. Put it right behind the ear and aim perpendicular to your head. Blows out the brain stem and you're dead. I had a friend's dad who did this and he was gone instantly.

/You shouldn't give advice about something this serious you know nothing about.

2012-11-14 05:07:56 PM
1 votes:

sariq: Jesus Christ. My parents are getting there. I have no idea what I'd do in a situation like this.


Then you better ask your parents. My folks have said it a million times over the years... "If my quality of life is gone, then take me out back, and put a bullet between my eyes". They've made a pact with each other.. and I'm pretty sure they'll stick with it.
2012-11-14 05:05:40 PM
1 votes:

dywed88: biyaaatci: He shot her and she didn't die until 2 days later. Why not another method which would not have been so horrific?

I suspect it was faulty assumptions that caused that, plus the hospital may have kept her alive for a while. Many people think a gunshot is quick, easy, and reliable way to kill instantly.
I blame media where all the regular people die at the slightest graze and the major characters can take dozens of bullets without flinching. This causes people to either overestimate or underestimate the typical effects of getting shot.


If you want good results, muzzle against the temple. However I bet it is hard to shoot your wife of 50+ years right in the head. He likely shot her in the chest and then didn't have the stamina to double tap his beloved wife. Asking another senior citizen to shoot you is definitely a bad way to go. Plus odds are he wasn't operating anything that big or heavy at this age.
2012-11-14 05:05:12 PM
1 votes:
I gotta say, it's pretty horrific that he botched it. If my wife asked me to help her die and I really, truly believed it was the right thing to do I'd make sure it was done a hell of a lot better than this guy.
2012-11-14 05:05:04 PM
1 votes:

ha-ha-guy: I hope I hit that sweet spot where I still have the motor skills to move and fire my Glock, while also realizing the jig is about to be up and I need to go out on my own terms. I don't want to be immobile in some bed and having to mouth "Kill me" to the nurses.

What is sad is how many old people do kill themselves via refusing medical treatment. I've seen some older people basically reject another round of some expensive medical treatment, sitting at home and waiting for the sickness to carry them off. They should have a more humane outlet when they feel that time comes.


That's what my father did at the end except he was in a hospital. He couldn't take it anymore and simply refused any more treatment or medication. The doctors told us he could suffer in agony for up to 4 days. Mercifully he passed away the following day in his sleep. I simply cannot fathom the choice I would have had to make if he had lingered on and begged me to end it.
2012-11-14 05:01:46 PM
1 votes:

Nadie_AZ: Standing in black-and-white jail clothes for his first court appearance Saturday, Sanders quickly interjected, "my wife," when the judge characterized Virginia Sanders as "the victim." He also asked the judge for help after admitting he didn't understand or have "any experience" with the criminal justice system.

"Excuse me, can I ask you a favor?" George Sanders asked the judge before being taken back to his jail cell. "I'm so cold and I've been so cold. At my age my back is spasming and I can't stop. Could I be given a blanket or two?"

Damn.


Goddammit. That is why I DNRTFA.
I want to hug that man.
2012-11-14 04:58:20 PM
1 votes:
I read that headline in Morgan Freeman's voice.
2012-11-14 04:57:19 PM
1 votes:

Slaves2Darkness: sariq: Jesus Christ. My parents are getting there. I have no idea what I'd do in a situation like this.

Tank of helium, a rubber hose and a plastic bag with an elastic draw string. Insert hose into bag, place bag over head, turn on helium. The helium replaces oxygen, but does not cause gasping, you pass out and then die from lack of oxygen.


some old lady got arrested for selling that as a kit online, iirc they eventually had to drop the charges.
2012-11-14 04:55:57 PM
1 votes:

cgraves67: My dad says that he doesn't want to go in a nursing home. If he goes for a walk in the woods and doesn't come back, don't go looking for a week. However, that seems unlikely to me. He's such a tough sumbiatch that he won't give up on living till well after he loses the capacity for walking.


I'm with your dad, as was my dad.

Our motto "If I ever can't feed myself or wipe my own ass, just take me fishing. I'll figure out a way to fall out of the boat."
2012-11-14 04:55:30 PM
1 votes:
Lol well he is a killer and should stay locked up. if he really loved his wife, getting locked up shouldnt be a problem for him. The nazi's are old innocent looking killers too.
2012-11-14 04:54:36 PM
1 votes:

Slaves2Darkness: sariq: Jesus Christ. My parents are getting there. I have no idea what I'd do in a situation like this.

Tank of helium, a rubber hose and a plastic bag with an elastic draw string. Insert hose into bag, place bag over head, turn on helium. The helium replaces oxygen, but does not cause gasping, you pass out and then die from lack of oxygen.


Plus you sound really funny while telling the tragic story of your horrible life.
2012-11-14 04:53:19 PM
1 votes:
As much as I sympathize with him and believe there should be legal routes that people like his wife can take and as much as I would like an opportunity to lay into the Maricopa County Sheriffs Office, this was (under the law) unquestionably murder and he should be convicted as such although I hope the sentence will be mitigated somewhat.
2012-11-14 04:53:09 PM
1 votes:

Relatively Obscure: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

I guess some people think that nobody in their right mind would want to die, and therefore anyone who wants to die is not in their right mind and shouldn't be allowed to make decisions. I guess.

I think there should, at least, be a way for people to check out. I'm not sure what I think that process should entail, though.


A panel of 3 doctors is all you need. If all three conclude that the person is of sound mind and there's no way to help them they should be allowed to end their life and pain with the assistance of a doctor. Sometimes "do no harm" means not allowing the person to suffer needlessly.
2012-11-14 04:52:20 PM
1 votes:

FirstNationalBastard: If we didn't have such a hang-up over quantity over quality,


Every man dies. Not every man truly lives.
2012-11-14 04:41:26 PM
1 votes:
Jesus Christ. My parents are getting there. I have no idea what I'd do in a situation like this.
 
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