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(AZ Family)   "There are times when you get old like this, you feel like you've lived too damn long" Man arrested for helping wife die in mercy killing   (azfamily.com) divider line 203
    More: Sad, euthanasias, Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, first call, MCSO, 3TV  
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10648 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Nov 2012 at 4:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-14 07:12:21 PM
hasty ambush:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

On the other hand we only have his say so that she wanted him to kill her. There is always the possibility that he got tired of taking care of her.


SO?
 
2012-11-14 07:12:23 PM
Wow. People giving their fellow FARKers suicide advice?

Classy.

/right to die should extend to right to humanely end your own life if you have terminal or a painful, intractable illness and are of right mind.
//Helping random people to kill themselves on the Internet on the other hand? No.
 
2012-11-14 07:17:20 PM

jst3p: The One True TheDavid:


Tried those & failed: exhaust gave me such a horrible headache & nausea that I couldn't keep sitting there, and all three times I tried pills somebody found me and called 911. The result was even more "subtle" brain damage than I had already. See?

It is my firm belief that people who have "tried" to kill themselves, particularly multiple times, aren't really trying.


So I'm a failure and an idiot. So shoot me.
 
2012-11-14 07:23:10 PM

F22raptom: Lol well he is a killer and should stay locked up. if he really loved his wife, getting locked up shouldnt be a problem for him. The nazi's are old innocent looking killers too.


Poe's Law pretty much means that it's pretty hard to determine if this guy's a troll or fanatic judging merely from the post itself.

(Personally, I lean towards "troll" with a -23.5/10 for making it too obvious.)

Then there's Psycat's First Corollary to Poe's Law which states that "Any troll who is asinine enough to pose as a fanatic on the Internet is just as screwed up as any fanatic."
 
Poe
2012-11-14 07:40:39 PM
I have seen relatives suffer long lingering deaths to cancer, heart issues, and Alzheimers. The Alzheimers particularly scares me. Were I to get the news that I would be sharing that sort of fate, I would get my affairs in order, hopefully get to do a few bucket list items, and then take myself out.
 
2012-11-14 07:43:42 PM
I worked with an oncologist who gave his patients very large bottles of narcotics, and warned them that if they took too many of them, they might die. Did you understand me? If you take a large amount of these you might die.

Frankly, I can't imagine a less dignified end than being mindless and sitting in a little house somewhere being spoon fed and patronized by a bunch of paid helpers who talk to you condescendingly all day long and roll their eyes when out of your sight. There's a place like that behind my home and it looks so incredibly cruel - although children think they must put their folks there since to keep them at home would be too dangerous and disruptive.

The truth is: most of us will not die spontaneously, painlessly, quickly. We will dwindle, crumble, and drag out the end. If you don't plan for it you 1) will not save enough funds to make that end comfortable and 2) will be at someone else's mercy when you're at your most helpless.
 
2012-11-14 07:51:41 PM

NowhereMon: You can get everything you need at Party City


A full bar and an endless stream of high-end hookers, that's how I'm going to go.
 
2012-11-14 08:25:18 PM
A man should have the right to end the life of his wife, and the wife should accept that judgment. Men have the right to do as they please with their property.
 
2012-11-14 08:40:13 PM
shiat, I'm thirty and many mornings I just hope I don't wake up.

/farking tired of this place.
 
2012-11-14 08:42:57 PM
Pisses me off.

I got to watch my dad, who was not allowed food or drink, starve to death because he's "gone anyway" because we're not allowed to perform mercy killings.

A good dog is dying so we quickly say goodbye and help him along the way with mercy killing.

Why do we treat animals more humanely than people?
 
2012-11-14 08:43:41 PM

dmax: I worked with an oncologist who gave his patients very large bottles of narcotics, and warned them that if they took too many of them, they might die. Did you understand me? If you take a large amount of these you might die.

Frankly, I can't imagine a less dignified end than being mindless and sitting in a little house somewhere being spoon fed and patronized by a bunch of paid helpers who talk to you condescendingly all day long and roll their eyes when out of your sight. There's a place like that behind my home and it looks so incredibly cruel - although children think they must put their folks there since to keep them at home would be too dangerous and disruptive.

The truth is: most of us will not die spontaneously, painlessly, quickly. We will dwindle, crumble, and drag out the end. If you don't plan for it you 1) will not save enough funds to make that end comfortable and 2) will be at someone else's mercy when you're at your most helpless.


Hopefully when the time comes, I can drive to mexico, bang a mexican hooker, get stoned, then go out on those horse drugs...
 
2012-11-14 08:44:59 PM

WhoGAS: Pisses me off.

I got to watch my dad, who was not allowed food or drink, starve to death because he's "gone anyway" because we're not allowed to perform mercy killings.

A good dog is dying so we quickly say goodbye and help him along the way with mercy killing.

Why do we treat animals more humanely than people?


This.
 
2012-11-14 08:47:11 PM
~~OnlyM3: ~~FirstNationalBastard
~~>>> MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally"
~~>>> under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on
~~>>> controlling others?

~~bible.jpg

¨¨¨¨¨¨Ohhh look. The bigot's have entered.¨¨¨¨¨¨


Oh, look the idiot who denie's the link between the bible and euthanasia laws has trouble hitting the quote button.
 
2012-11-14 08:47:42 PM

BronyMedic: Wow. People giving their fellow FARKers suicide advice?

Classy.

/right to die should extend to right to humanely end your own life if you have terminal or a painful, intractable illness and are of right mind.
//Helping random people to kill themselves on the Internet on the other hand? No.


I'm pretty sure if you typed a couple of words into your favorite search engine you'd find all the information and 100000x more in about 3 seconds flat. Welcome to the internet.
 
2012-11-14 08:51:12 PM

The One True TheDavid: KrispyKritter:

Death is kind compared to living out your life in a tiny concrete & steel cage surrounded by screaming lunatics who's idea of a good day is raping you in the shower or beating your brains out in the cafeteria.

Very much "THIS."


Actually you might be surprised how well a man like this would do in prison. I would honestly give him 50/50 odds. He might get chewed up and spit out by the population, but there is also an almost equally good chance that if enough of them heard his story that an old guy like him might get a "pass". Essentially the prisoners would mostly ignore him, maybe even be polite due to his age. Not just the same race but all the race gangs would treat him as an old prison veteran due to his situation. If that were the case then he would be fairly comfortable and fall into the daily routine. There would be no cred for messing with him and if a few of the movers had a bit of sympathy for him he would be considered off limits so his old butt would be unmolested. He could settle in the yard where he wants and talk with anybody without too much worry as long as he didn't start any trouble.

Prison, is weird. Spent alot of time in prison...........for college :D

/I threw myself in front of a car at age 7 too. Didn't kill me but it did get mom to move the hell away from dad. Almost as good.
 
2012-11-14 08:51:43 PM

Kit Fister:
Hopefully when the time comes, I can drive to mexico, bang a mexican hooker, get stoned, then go out on those horse drugs...


I freaking love Taco Tuesdays!! :-D

Though o.d.ing on K sounds nice, I'd rather it was cut 50/50 with coke!!
 
2012-11-14 08:59:06 PM
My father was in hospice when he died...some of the last words he said were "he's the one that's mean to me" while trying to point at a young man standing at the end of the bed.


There were almost two deaths that day.
 
2012-11-14 09:00:27 PM

The One True TheDavid: farm machine: [www.popsci.com image 350x455]

[cartoon of suicide booth]

Petition your town today to have one of these installed.

You might be kidding but I'm not. Though bigger facilities like "going home" on Soylent Green would be better: more capacity, easier post-death processing, greater efficiency all around. Say 100 rooms in each facility complete with fiber optic Internet on a big flat screen and/or geishas, and don't forget the marijuana, heroin, tranquilizers and booze. There should also be a big room in each facility for mass exit parties. Hookers and masseusses would of course cost extra. And yes, it should be publicly subsidized but something like the YMCA could work too.


that is an excellent idea. celebrate with your loved ones, make the most of those final moments enjoying it to the hilt. the day such a place exists we will know a better world has evolved. someone is going to make mad money doing that some day. and they will be much loved too.
 
2012-11-14 09:02:25 PM
I worked in the health care field for years and I saw a lot of folks die a miserable, lengthy, lingering death because of the laws. I'm for assisted suicide, especially when a person reaches the stage where living turns into sheer hell and that hell gets even worse once their money is sucked away by the hideous cost of care.

I've seen families all but abandon seriously ill loved ones, usually leaving them in the care of expensive nursing homes or dumping them on a single family member as care taker -- which then overloads the family member and they can become sick.

I understand the hesitation over assisted suicide, and not because of religious reasons, but because of inheritance. People bump off their ill relatives already if they become a nuisance or have something valuable they want. Plus for a time, before insurance companies applied restrictions, people suicided to get their families out of deep debt.

Then there is the whole temporary and treatable depression thing, brought on by any number of causes.

Still, there are obvious cases where assisted suicide has been justified. One should be allowed to not only die with dignity but not have to drain every last penny they have and mortgage their home to pay the costs of being required to live.

Dr. Kevorkian was ahead of his time. His suicide machine should be patented and made available to those who need it on Dr.s orders. (Cheaply!)

It's dawned on me over time that it's not the quantity of life lived, but the quality. When you've had enough, you should be allowed to go, not linger in abject misery.
 
2012-11-14 09:03:46 PM

Otto's_Jacket: My father was in hospice when he died...some of the last words he said were "he's the one that's mean to me" while trying to point at a young man standing at the end of the bed.

There were almost two deaths that day.


Wow. Gotta admit I'd spend a lot of my time figuring out legal ways to make that kid's life was miserable after that. He picked the wrong job and knew it.

I figure that as the end seems to be near, I might try some drugs that were labelled as "going to screw up your life." A friend recommends mushrooms at this point, saying that acid is a young man's drug.

There's something romantic (and impossible) about spending my end on the desert, camping out and enjoying the view of infinity, and messing with the doors to perception.
 
2012-11-14 09:10:13 PM
Big sigh.

Yup. I know what you mean, Mr. Jensen. What a shame that our nation can't work something out to allow our elders freedom of choice - and to facilitate them to carry out their choice - up to the very end.

This week I read about two similar cases in California, in both cases there were no charges brought. .

Let's hope wisdom and compassion get the upper hand and this man can go home and, I hope, be looked after a bit by his neighbors. I don't understand how the judge didn't do that already, after having a chance to look at the background. This poor man is not a threat to anyone. He shouldn't have to spend even one more minute behind bars.Let him go home and they can continue their investigation.

So much sadness in the world.
 
2012-11-14 09:14:16 PM
10 Years ago this past Jan. I gave the order to take my wife off life support and allow her to die with a bit of dignity, how the fark is this different? dnrtfa.
 
2012-11-14 09:18:36 PM

NowhereMon: Front


Also, How to Die in Oregon. I caught it on HBO Go (might still be up), and I know it's available on Netflix DVD. (Not sure about streaming.) It's hugely moving, and a very sobering look at how hard -- yet necessary -- the choice to end one's life with dignity is when faced with a terminal disease.

/
 
2012-11-14 09:20:07 PM
(Oops, I somehow managed to mangle NowhereMon's post when I quoted it, sorry!)
 
2012-11-14 09:29:54 PM
Eps05: As someone who knew a person with MS, i empathize heavily with him and his wife. Late stage MS is terrible.

Also this. A good friend of mine's mother is bedridden at this point.


When my mother gets to this point, I plan on seeing a doctor for some strong sleeping pills (can't sleep doc, stress of mom dying is keeping me awake!) and leaving them where she can get at them if she wants.
 
2012-11-14 09:37:41 PM
Black widow lying in wait! You law enforcement need to keep an eye onhim & his kind, born before 1920!!!!
 
2012-11-14 09:43:07 PM
no - a bullet is not a mercy killing
 
2012-11-14 09:50:14 PM
Maybe he was just sick of her and offed her. None of us have any idea what the story is there. She can not back up his claim. He looks and sounds like a nice old man. Maybe its all an act.
 
2012-11-14 10:04:01 PM

The One True TheDavid: jst3p: The One True TheDavid:


Tried those & failed: exhaust gave me such a horrible headache & nausea that I couldn't keep sitting there, and all three times I tried pills somebody found me and called 911. The result was even more "subtle" brain damage than I had already. See?

It is my firm belief that people who have "tried" to kill themselves, particularly multiple times, aren't really trying.

So I'm a failure and an idiot. So shoot me.


That is my point, I don't think you are a failure, well at least not because of this. Your goal is to get attention, and I am sure you get it each time you "try" and off yourself. I do know this. If I really wanted to kill myself I would be dead by morning. 99% chance same is true of you.
 
2012-11-14 10:22:37 PM

The One True TheDavid: Slaves2Darkness:

sariq: Jesus Christ. My parents are getting there. I have no idea what I'd do in a situation like this.

Tank of helium, a rubber hose and a plastic bag with an elastic draw string. Insert hose into bag, place bag over head, turn on helium. The helium replaces oxygen, but does not cause gasping, you pass out and then die from lack of oxygen.

Why not nitrous oxide if you can get it? That sounds like fun.


Oh, you'll get plenty high off the helium. NO is used when you want to put the patient out temporarily.
 
2012-11-14 10:25:31 PM

the lord god: Maybe he was just sick of her and offed her. None of us have any idea what the story is there. She can not back up his claim. He looks and sounds like a nice old man. Maybe its all an act.


If that is true--and it's not impossible--then what does it say for our medical care system that there is no other option for him EXCEPT killing her? He can't dump her in a nursing home? Foist her off on relatives or the kids? Leave her on the curb? No. Even if your scenario is the correct one, it only works at his age if he ran through the other options and felt killing her was the best alternative. There's no evidence that, for instance, he's getting some kind of huge insurance payoff, or that she's leaving him lots of property in the will, or that family and friends were standing by and would gladly have relieved him of the burden, he was just to ornery to accept.

The idea that someone kills their spouse because he/she was tired of caring for them is only a viable scenario if the killer is going to be better off in some way after the killing--financially, emotionally, physically, whatever. If the killer is going to be poor, alone, and bereft, then you have to consider the possibility that maybe, just maybe, they really couldn't bear to watch their loved one suffer and felt they had no other recourse.
 
2012-11-14 10:28:38 PM
If it came to it and my husband asked, I'd kill him. If I went to jail for it, I'd go in knowing that I did right by the most important person in my life and I'd have no shame, guilt, or fear. Such a thing is worth ruining your life for. Though, like this old guy, I might ask for a blanket.
 
2012-11-14 10:34:02 PM
Shoot your own damn self.
 
2012-11-14 10:34:26 PM

jst3p: If I really wanted to kill myself I would be dead by morning


I used to vemhently hold that position, until I woke in a psych ward. You have no idea. Trust me.
 
2012-11-14 10:37:28 PM

trappedspirit: Shoot your own damn self.


you tell that to my quadriplegic uncle. You'll get the nastiest sounding gurgle you heard in a while.
 
2012-11-14 10:54:10 PM
ahhhh, kill me and I just start over.
The big reset button

It's good being a Buddhist.
 
2012-11-14 11:00:13 PM
A gun not the best method, helium would have been better, in every respect.
 
2012-11-14 11:03:44 PM
As said previously - this is why jury nullification exists.

I would not convict this man, even if it meant I had to force a hung jury.
 
2012-11-14 11:09:16 PM

TimonC346: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

It's really odd--the people who tend to be against mercy killing are all for the Death Penalty. That's...odd.


The reason for that is the Death Penalty is a penalty for crimes. Mercy killing, is not.
 
2012-11-14 11:17:02 PM

Broktun: Fizpez: Broktun: Narcotics, sleeping pills, and alcohol.

Morphine, diazepam and whiskey will work.

Yep, I plan on squirreling away a couple dozen vicodin as I get older - the rest can be gotten at any time,

I hope I die peacefully in my sleep but if me or my wife is just plain old suffering at the end I don't think most people will judge too harshly.

Even one bottle of tylenol is enough to do the trick, but it takes 3 or 4 days.


I'm told that the liver failure route is more than a bit agonizing.
 
2012-11-14 11:46:51 PM

uttertosh: trappedspirit: Shoot your own damn self.

you tell that to my quadriplegic uncle. You'll get the nastiest sounding gurgle you heard in a while.


Why are we dragging your quadriplegic uncle into this? Dismissing the fact that we have to drag him where ever he goes.
 
2012-11-14 11:59:21 PM
Extra tank of CO2 filled, at the now defunct pepsi bottling facility in town, decades ago. Good for boosting plant growth, and producing fertilizer.

Really need an implant of Fentanyl with wireless connection to activate the plunger. If I can no longer recognize my own face on the screen and type in my name in the allotted time? Well, what's the use of running a train with a `daffy' conductor, or wrecking friends and family at the end of that line?. Irreproducible, ever more frequent errors in the function of the wetware concern me more than taking a header into a wood chipper (gone all to shiat like an old Abit board fitted with capacitors loaded with contaminated electrolyte).

In these matters the law is an inadequate `judge' of what constitutes `humane', or, even, what is rational 

Went through paternal Grandfather's garage after his death (prof. Civil Engineering): He had spent serious time placing twenty Styrofoam packing peanuts in large paper bag, into which he placed a smaller paper bag in which there were another twenty packing peanuts into which he'd placed an even smaller bag with another twenty count - seemingly.ad infinitum - the garage half-filled with nothing but these nested constructs; during one of his more `lucid' moments he'd broken my grandmother's - `the `devil's' - jaw. I would rather surrender a few months of `bright eyed and bushy tailed' to prevent a drooling, recursively paranoic denouement (wouldn't be `me', anyway, fark that look-a-like husk). 

/plotting out exit with a lawyer is far easier (for all concerned) than having lawyers plotting afterwards
 
2012-11-15 12:23:55 AM

trappedspirit: uttertosh: trappedspirit: Shoot your own damn self.

you tell that to my quadriplegic uncle. You'll get the nastiest sounding gurgle you heard in a while.

Why are we dragging your quadriplegic uncle into this? Dismissing the fact that we have to drag him where ever he goes.


haters gonna hate, but that's just how I roll him.
 
2012-11-15 12:28:05 AM

Rik01: I worked in the health care field for years and I saw a lot of folks die a miserable, lengthy, lingering death because of the laws. I'm for assisted suicide, especially when a person reaches the stage where living turns into sheer hell and that hell gets even worse once their money is sucked away by the hideous cost of care.

I've seen families all but abandon seriously ill loved ones, usually leaving them in the care of expensive nursing homes or dumping them on a single family member as care taker -- which then overloads the family member and they can become sick.

I understand the hesitation over assisted suicide, and not because of religious reasons, but because of inheritance. People bump off their ill relatives already if they become a nuisance or have something valuable they want. Plus for a time, before insurance companies applied restrictions, people suicided to get their families out of deep debt.

Then there is the whole temporary and treatable depression thing, brought on by any number of causes.

Still, there are obvious cases where assisted suicide has been justified. One should be allowed to not only die with dignity but not have to drain every last penny they have and mortgage their home to pay the costs of being required to live.

Dr. Kevorkian was ahead of his time. His suicide machine should be patented and made available to those who need it on Dr.s orders. (Cheaply!)

It's dawned on me over time that it's not the quantity of life lived, but the quality. When you've had enough, you should be allowed to go, not linger in abject misery.


THIS SO G-D MUCH.

I'm not sure if this applies for every state in the US, but in the 4 states I've worked EMS in, a family member can rescind a dying person's do not resuscitate order.

I've been a paramedic for 17 years. When I first got into medicine, I thought I was going to be a LIFE SAVER! It didn't take long to realize that wasn't going to be the case.

One of the toughest calls I've ever ran was for a woman with end-stage cervical cancer. Her brother was an RN and helped her and her husband with end-of-life issues, along with her "do not resuscitate " order.

She went into cardiac arrest one day, and her husband called 911. We got on scene to find a grown woman who, due to her disease, was merely skin and bones - maybe 70 pounds at the most. Her husband had lost it - "Do whatever you can for her!"

We tried to talk him out of it, be he wouldn't budge - "Please, save her!" Since he was her husband, we had no choice but to COMPLETELY DISREGARD this woman's wishes and do what her husband wanted.

Have any of you ever done CPR? It's not like "Baywatch." You break ribs. You break sternums. CPR, when done correctly, can cause a lot of damage to a person.

We "did everything we could" for this poor woman, and took her to the hospital. Her brother (the RN) was waiting for us, and when we walked in with his sister, he looked at his brother-in-law and said, "What the hell are you doing?" His brother-in-law looked at him for a moment and just started crying...at that point, we were able to stop.

I ran this call at the beginning of my EMS career, and it's stayed with me. I remember it like it happened yesterday. I felt (and still feel) like I let her down, because I did to her exactly what she didn't want done...I tried to save her.

Why am I telling you this? Because this woman made an informed decision about the end of her life and how she wanted it handled (do not resuscitate), and when that moment came, her wishes went right out the window because of her husband deciding to rescind her do not resuscitate order.

I get it, people - that was her HUSBAND. I know he thought he was doing what was right. I know he loved her very much. I can't imagine how hard his wife's disease and death was for him...

...but it was hard for her, too. SHE was the one with cancer. SHE was the person dying. And SHE didn't want her life extended.

I guess my point is this - if you have a friend or family member who is sick and/or dying, and that friend or family member chooses to die on their own terms, HONOR THEIR WISHES.

If medicine has taught me anything, it's QUALITY of life, not QUANTITY. Rik01 is right.
 
2012-11-15 01:34:00 AM
If you want to have your family "pull the plug," don't use Catholic hospitals.

The bishops have decided they have the right to override your advance directives.

Wish I was kidding.
 
2012-11-15 01:55:49 AM
One of the young women docs at my job went home, injected the skin at the side of her neck with lidocaine, and the cut open her carotids and bled to death.

Ignoring the psychic pain preceding that, it sounded like she thought through, pretty clearly, how to leave without suffering any more.
 
2012-11-15 02:24:17 AM
You should have honored her wishes.
But I don't blame you.
Not one bit.
In that situation, just about anyone would have done the same.
 
2012-11-15 02:31:41 AM
I'm more than slightly concerned at the number of people in this thread that have "suicide kits" I mean, really? WTF?
 
2012-11-15 05:51:42 AM
My last stay in the hospital, my next door neighbor was an old Portuguese woman in her 90s. The nurses were having to fight her to give her the medication prescribed. She wanted to died. Didn't speak English. The nurses didn't speak Portuguese. Her family had power of attorney and all the decision making power and they said she needed to live - even though she was suffering. It's disgusting.

In a way, I'm glad I'm a type 1 diabetic - over dose on insulin and take some sleeping pills. My brain will be dead before they find me.
 
2012-11-15 09:00:15 AM

Lawnchair: Fizpez: Broktun: Narcotics, sleeping pills, and alcohol.

Morphine, diazepam and whiskey will work.

Yep, I plan on squirreling away a couple dozen vicodin as I get older - the rest can be gotten at any time,

You shouldn't need to squirrel. My mom certainly didn't want to be where she was at the end of her cancer fight, but was too far into confusion and pain her last week to make her own arrangements. But, she was in hospice care (in our house). They give you a big bottle of oral morphine. They don't say "you're using too much" or measure how much you've used.

I guess the worse case is when you don't really have anyone that close to nurse you.



I'm glad someone posted a hospice story like that before I had to. My little sister died at 25 from a recurrence of a childhood cancer and that's actually how she went. Doctor had prescribed a 30 day dose of morphine for a patient that had maybe 4-5 days left.
 
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