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(AZ Family)   "There are times when you get old like this, you feel like you've lived too damn long" Man arrested for helping wife die in mercy killing   (azfamily.com) divider line 203
    More: Sad, euthanasias, Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, first call, MCSO, 3TV  
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10655 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Nov 2012 at 4:47 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-14 04:19:42 PM  
Standing in black-and-white jail clothes for his first court appearance Saturday, Sanders quickly interjected, "my wife," when the judge characterized Virginia Sanders as "the victim." He also asked the judge for help after admitting he didn't understand or have "any experience" with the criminal justice system.

"Excuse me, can I ask you a favor?" George Sanders asked the judge before being taken back to his jail cell. "I'm so cold and I've been so cold. At my age my back is spasming and I can't stop. Could I be given a blanket or two?"


Damn.
 
2012-11-14 04:41:26 PM  
Jesus Christ. My parents are getting there. I have no idea what I'd do in a situation like this.
 
2012-11-14 04:42:04 PM  
If we didn't have such a hang-up over quantity over quality, there would be no stigma over someone ending their own life, so they didn't have to ask a loved one to be merciful and kill them.
 
2012-11-14 04:44:42 PM  
legacyofcensorship.wikispaces.com

You can get everything you need at Party City
 
2012-11-14 04:45:24 PM  
And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?
 
2012-11-14 04:49:48 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?


tallskinnykiwi.typepad.com
 
2012-11-14 04:50:12 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?


I guess some people think that nobody in their right mind would want to die, and therefore anyone who wants to die is not in their right mind and shouldn't be allowed to make decisions. I guess.

I think there should, at least, be a way for people to check out. I'm not sure what I think that process should entail, though.
 
2012-11-14 04:50:26 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

[tallskinnykiwi.typepad.com image 350x348]


That would be my point
 
2012-11-14 04:50:29 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?


It's really odd--the people who tend to be against mercy killing are all for the Death Penalty. That's...odd.
 
2012-11-14 04:51:38 PM  

TimonC346: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

It's really odd--the people who tend to be against mercy killing are all for the Death Penalty. That's...odd.


And seem to love war.
 
2012-11-14 04:51:59 PM  

TimonC346: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

It's really odd--the people who tend to be against mercy killing are all for the Death Penalty. That's...odd.


I'm for both
 
2012-11-14 04:52:09 PM  

TimonC346: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

It's really odd--the people who tend to be against mercy killing are all for the Death Penalty. That's...odd.


They want to be In Charge. That's the point - control.
 
2012-11-14 04:52:11 PM  

sariq: Jesus Christ. My parents are getting there. I have no idea what I'd do in a situation like this.


Tank of helium, a rubber hose and a plastic bag with an elastic draw string. Insert hose into bag, place bag over head, turn on helium. The helium replaces oxygen, but does not cause gasping, you pass out and then die from lack of oxygen.
 
2012-11-14 04:52:20 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: If we didn't have such a hang-up over quantity over quality,


Every man dies. Not every man truly lives.
 
2012-11-14 04:52:25 PM  
It's sad that my dog will have a more humane end when he gets near the end of his days than I will.
 
2012-11-14 04:53:02 PM  
Lock this monster up before he does it again!
 
2012-11-14 04:53:09 PM  

Relatively Obscure: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

I guess some people think that nobody in their right mind would want to die, and therefore anyone who wants to die is not in their right mind and shouldn't be allowed to make decisions. I guess.

I think there should, at least, be a way for people to check out. I'm not sure what I think that process should entail, though.


A panel of 3 doctors is all you need. If all three conclude that the person is of sound mind and there's no way to help them they should be allowed to end their life and pain with the assistance of a doctor. Sometimes "do no harm" means not allowing the person to suffer needlessly.
 
2012-11-14 04:53:11 PM  
He shot her and she didn't die until 2 days later. Why not another method which would not have been so horrific?
 
2012-11-14 04:53:19 PM  
As much as I sympathize with him and believe there should be legal routes that people like his wife can take and as much as I would like an opportunity to lay into the Maricopa County Sheriffs Office, this was (under the law) unquestionably murder and he should be convicted as such although I hope the sentence will be mitigated somewhat.
 
2012-11-14 04:53:31 PM  
www.popsci.com

Petition your town today to have one of these installed.
 
2012-11-14 04:53:38 PM  
Anybody who is even remotely interested in this topic owes it to themselves to watch last night's Frontline:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/suicide-plan/
 
2012-11-14 04:54:03 PM  
TimonC346: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

It's really odd--the people who tend to be against mercy killing are all for the Death Penalty. That's...odd.

and against abortion! don't forget that one!

seriously, poor old guy. If assisted suicide laws were allowed, he wouldn't have had to shoot her. I wonder if the prosecutor will go ahead with 1st deg murder charges?
 
2012-11-14 04:54:30 PM  
My dad says that he doesn't want to go in a nursing home. If he goes for a walk in the woods and doesn't come back, don't go looking for a week. However, that seems unlikely to me. He's such a tough sumbiatch that he won't give up on living till well after he loses the capacity for walking.
 
2012-11-14 04:54:36 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: sariq: Jesus Christ. My parents are getting there. I have no idea what I'd do in a situation like this.

Tank of helium, a rubber hose and a plastic bag with an elastic draw string. Insert hose into bag, place bag over head, turn on helium. The helium replaces oxygen, but does not cause gasping, you pass out and then die from lack of oxygen.


Plus you sound really funny while telling the tragic story of your horrible life.
 
2012-11-14 04:54:41 PM  

TimonC346: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

It's really odd--the people who tend to be against mercy killing are all for the Death Penalty. That's...odd.


Blowing shiat up to protect blastocysts and ensuring old people live long lives of pain and misery.

That's pro-life!
 
2012-11-14 04:55:01 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: sariq: Jesus Christ. My parents are getting there. I have no idea what I'd do in a situation like this.

Tank of helium, a rubber hose and a plastic bag with an elastic draw string. Insert hose into bag, place bag over head, turn on helium. The helium replaces oxygen, but does not cause gasping, you pass out and then die from lack of oxygen.


Yeah, but you'll sound like an idiot if someone walks in and tries to stop you.
 
2012-11-14 04:55:30 PM  
Lol well he is a killer and should stay locked up. if he really loved his wife, getting locked up shouldnt be a problem for him. The nazi's are old innocent looking killers too.
 
2012-11-14 04:55:57 PM  

cgraves67: My dad says that he doesn't want to go in a nursing home. If he goes for a walk in the woods and doesn't come back, don't go looking for a week. However, that seems unlikely to me. He's such a tough sumbiatch that he won't give up on living till well after he loses the capacity for walking.


I'm with your dad, as was my dad.

Our motto "If I ever can't feed myself or wipe my own ass, just take me fishing. I'll figure out a way to fall out of the boat."
 
2012-11-14 04:56:47 PM  

dywed88: As much as I sympathize with him and believe there should be legal routes that people like his wife can take and as much as I would like an opportunity to lay into the Maricopa County Sheriffs Office, this was (under the law) unquestionably murder and he should be convicted as such although I hope the sentence will be mitigated somewhat.


I'm not sure I can agree with a "well, it IS the law" mindset on some things. Not that this is exactly the same thing, but I doubt I could have brought myself, in the 1800s, to help convict someone for aiding in the escape of slaves, even if I watched them do it.
 
2012-11-14 04:56:49 PM  

F22raptom: Lol well he is a killer and should stay locked up. if he really loved his wife, getting locked up shouldnt be a problem for him. The nazi's are old innocent looking killers too.


You're an asshole
 
2012-11-14 04:57:19 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: sariq: Jesus Christ. My parents are getting there. I have no idea what I'd do in a situation like this.

Tank of helium, a rubber hose and a plastic bag with an elastic draw string. Insert hose into bag, place bag over head, turn on helium. The helium replaces oxygen, but does not cause gasping, you pass out and then die from lack of oxygen.


some old lady got arrested for selling that as a kit online, iirc they eventually had to drop the charges.
 
2012-11-14 04:58:20 PM  
I read that headline in Morgan Freeman's voice.
 
2012-11-14 04:59:10 PM  
Why do these mercy killers go with shooting? Ugh that is not a good way to go, and too much chance for farking up and just really hurting yourself.

Carbon monoxide poisoning? Pills? If I ever ask any of you to mercy kill me, use those methods, kk thanks.

/these stories are incredibly sad, there should be legal end of life options for those who so choose
//since there aren't, though, asking your loved one to do it isn't really a good option either
 
2012-11-14 04:59:33 PM  

bugmn99: Slaves2Darkness: sariq: Jesus Christ. My parents are getting there. I have no idea what I'd do in a situation like this.

Tank of helium, a rubber hose and a plastic bag with an elastic draw string. Insert hose into bag, place bag over head, turn on helium. The helium replaces oxygen, but does not cause gasping, you pass out and then die from lack of oxygen.

Yeah, but you'll sound like an idiot if someone walks in and tries to stop you.



Probably about like my 5 year old when he's mad at his older brother...

STOP!!! STOOOP!!! STOOOOOP!

/all in that whiny, high pitched 5 year old voice.
 
2012-11-14 04:59:53 PM  

NowhereMon: Anybody who is even remotely interested in this topic owes it to themselves to watch last night's Frontline:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/suicide-plan/


what upset me the most about the Republican attack on PBS is their real target was Frontline.
 
2012-11-14 05:00:11 PM  
I hope I hit that sweet spot where I still have the motor skills to move and fire my Glock, while also realizing the jig is about to be up and I need to go out on my own terms. I don't want to be immobile in some bed and having to mouth "Kill me" to the nurses.

What is sad is how many old people do kill themselves via refusing medical treatment. I've seen some older people basically reject another round of some expensive medical treatment, sitting at home and waiting for the sickness to carry them off. They should have a more humane outlet when they feel that time comes.
 
2012-11-14 05:00:29 PM  
I agree that it's clearly murder under the law.

I think he should be convicted of it, and then sentenced to time served and informal probation.
 
2012-11-14 05:01:46 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Standing in black-and-white jail clothes for his first court appearance Saturday, Sanders quickly interjected, "my wife," when the judge characterized Virginia Sanders as "the victim." He also asked the judge for help after admitting he didn't understand or have "any experience" with the criminal justice system.

"Excuse me, can I ask you a favor?" George Sanders asked the judge before being taken back to his jail cell. "I'm so cold and I've been so cold. At my age my back is spasming and I can't stop. Could I be given a blanket or two?"

Damn.


Goddammit. That is why I DNRTFA.
I want to hug that man.
 
2012-11-14 05:02:02 PM  

biyaaatci: He shot her and she didn't die until 2 days later. Why not another method which would not have been so horrific?


I suspect it was faulty assumptions that caused that, plus the hospital may have kept her alive for a while. Many people think a gunshot is quick, easy, and reliable way to kill instantly.
I blame media where all the regular people die at the slightest graze and the major characters can take dozens of bullets without flinching. This causes people to either overestimate or underestimate the typical effects of getting shot.
 
2012-11-14 05:02:22 PM  
if he gets his blankets, he won't use them to keep warm.
 
2012-11-14 05:04:55 PM  
If I ever develop some form of dementia or debilitating illness, I damn sure hope someone will help me kill myself. That's no way to live.
 
2012-11-14 05:05:04 PM  

ha-ha-guy: I hope I hit that sweet spot where I still have the motor skills to move and fire my Glock, while also realizing the jig is about to be up and I need to go out on my own terms. I don't want to be immobile in some bed and having to mouth "Kill me" to the nurses.

What is sad is how many old people do kill themselves via refusing medical treatment. I've seen some older people basically reject another round of some expensive medical treatment, sitting at home and waiting for the sickness to carry them off. They should have a more humane outlet when they feel that time comes.


That's what my father did at the end except he was in a hospital. He couldn't take it anymore and simply refused any more treatment or medication. The doctors told us he could suffer in agony for up to 4 days. Mercifully he passed away the following day in his sleep. I simply cannot fathom the choice I would have had to make if he had lingered on and begged me to end it.
 
2012-11-14 05:05:12 PM  
I gotta say, it's pretty horrific that he botched it. If my wife asked me to help her die and I really, truly believed it was the right thing to do I'd make sure it was done a hell of a lot better than this guy.
 
2012-11-14 05:05:40 PM  

dywed88: biyaaatci: He shot her and she didn't die until 2 days later. Why not another method which would not have been so horrific?

I suspect it was faulty assumptions that caused that, plus the hospital may have kept her alive for a while. Many people think a gunshot is quick, easy, and reliable way to kill instantly.
I blame media where all the regular people die at the slightest graze and the major characters can take dozens of bullets without flinching. This causes people to either overestimate or underestimate the typical effects of getting shot.


If you want good results, muzzle against the temple. However I bet it is hard to shoot your wife of 50+ years right in the head. He likely shot her in the chest and then didn't have the stamina to double tap his beloved wife. Asking another senior citizen to shoot you is definitely a bad way to go. Plus odds are he wasn't operating anything that big or heavy at this age.
 
2012-11-14 05:07:56 PM  

sariq: Jesus Christ. My parents are getting there. I have no idea what I'd do in a situation like this.


Then you better ask your parents. My folks have said it a million times over the years... "If my quality of life is gone, then take me out back, and put a bullet between my eyes". They've made a pact with each other.. and I'm pretty sure they'll stick with it.
 
2012-11-14 05:07:59 PM  

Fail in Human Form: Relatively Obscure: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And who are the people who insist your life must end "naturally" under any and all circumstances? On what do they base their insistence on controlling others?

I guess some people think that nobody in their right mind would want to die, and therefore anyone who wants to die is not in their right mind and shouldn't be allowed to make decisions. I guess.

I think there should, at least, be a way for people to check out. I'm not sure what I think that process should entail, though.

A panel of 3 doctors is all you need. If all three conclude that the person is of sound mind and there's no way to help them they should be allowed to end their life and pain with the assistance of a doctor. Sometimes "do no harm" means not allowing the person to suffer needlessly.


But how can they get months worth of medicare overcharges from that?

Think of the poor MDs!
 
2012-11-14 05:08:41 PM  

Relatively Obscure: dywed88: As much as I sympathize with him and believe there should be legal routes that people like his wife can take and as much as I would like an opportunity to lay into the Maricopa County Sheriffs Office, this was (under the law) unquestionably murder and he should be convicted as such although I hope the sentence will be mitigated somewhat.

I'm not sure I can agree with a "well, it IS the law" mindset on some things. Not that this is exactly the same thing, but I doubt I could have brought myself, in the 1800s, to help convict someone for aiding in the escape of slaves, even if I watched them do it.


I suppose I should say that I understand the law and can justify it. Especially when the man kills his wife in their home. I do believe his motivation, but I don't think events as described here should be legal. There is way too much room for exploitation and other issues. I believe that it should be decided with the assistance of a doctor and have strong documentation to back it up. However as that is impossible, and for that reason alone I hope he gets off with minimal punishment (even if just released on compassionate grounds of some sort).

Now I entirely disagree with slavery and therefore cannot possibly justify laws supporting it. I put this closer to the "starving man steals a loaf of bread" category than refusing to follow inherently unjust laws.
 
2012-11-14 05:09:48 PM  
This is relevant to my interests.

/sadly
//no significant other to help me though
///otherwise, i wouldn't be considering it
 
2012-11-14 05:09:55 PM  

ha-ha-guy: If you want good results, muzzle against the temple./i>

Wrong, many people live after doing this but because they see it in movies think it's a sure bet. All you do is blow out your eyes and suffer in agony. Put it right behind the ear and aim perpendicular to your head. Blows out the brain stem and you're dead. I had a friend's dad who did this and he was gone instantly.

/You shouldn't give advice about something this serious you know nothing about.

 
2012-11-14 05:10:25 PM  
FTFA: the prosecutor at his arraignment did call this a "mercy killing."

At least the prosecutor hasn't gone full asshole, my guess plea deal, house arrest, and probation probably for the rest of is life since let's face it at 85 5 years of probation would be a long time.
 
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