If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Russia Today) NewsFlash IDF reaches out and touches Hamas   (rt.com) divider line 512
    More: NewsFlash, IDF, Gaza, Ezzedin Qassam Brigades, Israelis, 2006 Israel-Gaza conflict, Al Arabiya, Gilad Shalit, reservists  
•       •       •

18147 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Nov 2012 at 1:39 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


Want to get NewsFlash notifications in email?

512 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-11-16 05:34:18 PM
Isildur
What it has to lose is exactly the part of my point that you're ignoring -- that Hamas attacks would intensify, not abate.

How do you know that, since it's never been tried? Are you a wizard?

Anyway, I said there's a chance they might, at least initially, but then drop off rapidly as potential militants decide to get real jobs because all of their friends are getting real jobs and buying flashy cars. Holy farking shiat, imagine what would happen to the Palestinian economy if there was an oil pipeline from Saudi Arabia or Iraq terminating in Gaza City! Everyone would forget about that whole "kill the Jews" thing before you can say "Should I spring for the sunroof?".
 
2012-11-16 10:04:34 PM

RanDomino: Isildur
What it has to lose is exactly the part of my point that you're ignoring -- that Hamas attacks would intensify, not abate.

How do you know that, since it's never been tried? Are you a wizard?

Anyway, I said there's a chance they might, at least initially, but then drop off rapidly as potential militants decide to get real jobs because all of their friends are getting real jobs and buying flashy cars. Holy farking shiat, imagine what would happen to the Palestinian economy if there was an oil pipeline from Saudi Arabia or Iraq terminating in Gaza City! Everyone would forget about that whole "kill the Jews" thing before you can say "Should I spring for the sunroof?".


How do I know? How about taking them at their own words to never renounce fighting Israel while it exists at any form within the former British mandate of Palestine?


Right, because the investment you describe is likely to happen while there's "initial violence" going on?

Look, extremist groups can possibly become more moderate, but there's simply no evidence currently supporting optimism in Hamas's case, and there likely won't be, as long as their stated goal is what it is: to end Israel -- not end "the current state of siege" -- but to thoroughly destroy "the Zionist entity". At least with Fatah/P.A., there are elements who seem more reasonable, but that doesn't appear to be the case with Hamas.
 
2012-11-16 10:08:22 PM
Why do you think Israel (and Egypt) set up the current blockade after Hamas took power in Gaza? Hint: Hamas said it would not stand by previous agreements.
 
2012-11-16 10:13:09 PM
Fark seems to have eaten an addendum post I just made while in mobile view. Let's try this again:

Why do you think Israe (and Egypt) blockaded Gaza after Hamas took power?

Hamas refused to agree to honor prior agreements. A real partner for peace there.
 
2012-11-16 10:14:50 PM
Oh, never mind, I was just not used to the pagination and didn't see that it was pushed to the next page. Duh.
 
2012-11-17 12:16:28 AM
Isildur
How do I know? How about taking them at their own words to never renounce fighting Israel while it exists at any form within the former British mandate of Palestine?

They say they want war = They can be taken at their word
They say they want peace = They are liars
Does that about sum it up?

Right, because the investment you describe is likely to happen while there's "initial violence" going on?

People naturally rebuild and get on with their lives in absence of external pressures. The only question is if they're going to be allowed to do so.

Look, extremist groups can possibly become more moderate

I never claimed that. I say that their members will become disinterested and they'll struggle for recruits. Look at Hezbollah, which was considered a bunch of old dorks with guns at the start of 2006 and subsequently control half of Lebanon.

Why do you think Israel (and Egypt) set up the current blockade after Hamas took power in Gaza? Hint: Hamas said it would not stand by previous agreements.

Who farking cares about agreements? Israel has absolute unilateral power. It can simply implement a plan that will result in peace.
 
2012-11-17 01:11:23 AM

RanDomino:
Who farking cares about agreements? Israel has absolute unilateral power. It can simply implement a plan that will result in peace.


You blew your cover with that line.

You are intentionally trolling people. Haha.

/fell for it
 
2012-11-17 06:18:45 PM

RanDomino: I never claimed that. I say that their members will become disinterested and they'll struggle for recruits.


That won't happen as long as they keep the fight going, and as long as they keep getting funds from abroad.


RanDomino: Look at Hezbollah, which was considered a bunch of old dorks with guns at the start of 2006


That's utter nonsense.


RanDomino: Who farking cares about agreements?


I... just... Wow.


RanDomino: Israel has absolute unilateral power. It can simply implement a plan that will result in peace.

 

Wow. There's you're problem right there. You categorically believe that Hamas (and any other Palestinian group) cannot possibly have responsibility for anything, because you think nothing they can do has any bearing on the situation and you think Israel has absolutely no limitations and simply chooses this situation.
 
2012-11-17 08:27:32 PM
Isildur
You categorically believe that Hamas (and any other Palestinian group) cannot possibly have responsibility for anything

No, I said they have no power. Respond to what I actually said, rather than trying to make it sound like I said they're blameless. I don't give a fark about who's to blame, just how to end the conflict.
 
2012-11-17 09:33:27 PM

RanDomino: Isildur
You categorically believe that Hamas (and any other Palestinian group) cannot possibly have responsibility for anything

No, I said they have no power. Respond to what I actually said, rather than trying to make it sound like I said they're blameless. I don't give a fark about who's to blame, just how to end the conflict.


They have power over what they themselves do, and to pretend that that is inconsequential makes no sense. This idea of Israel having "absolute unilateral power" is insane. Israel can unilaterally withdraw from an area. They can't unilaterally "arrest any violent criminals" -- e.g. people planning to blow up buses or pizza parlors -- with a magic snap of their fingers. When there's a giant organization behind such people, nothing is that "easy".

In any conflict, peace requires both sides accepting that they're ok with the other side living in peace, period.
 
2012-11-17 10:53:25 PM
Isildur
They can't unilaterally "arrest any violent criminals" -- e.g. people planning to blow up buses or pizza parlors

Here's the thing: Unless Israelis stop demanding that those be made impossible (which is never, ever going to happen), there will never be peace.

This is ridiculous. A rocket lands near Tel Aviv or Jerusalem and everyone panics and has to run to a stairwell for a WHOLE TEN MINUTES! OH GOD THE HUMANITY

meanwhile, the casualty count in Gaza is up to, what, 45 dead and 250 wounded? Whole blocks of the city destroyed and burned down, no one able to work, and everyone in constant terror.

There's no comparison. Are Israelis the world's biggest pussies?

Yes, periodically a rocket lands within earshot. Sometimes, maybe, someone gets killed.

They
need
to
get
over
it.

You know what, just for fun, let's compare the number of Israelis killed from rockets in 2011 to the number killed in car accidents: 384 vs zero. Nine if all types of attacks are included. What an epidemic! Something has to be done about this! Quick, blockade all Israeli car dealerships! Bomb Detroit! Demand international sanctions against Japan!
 
2012-11-17 11:48:39 PM

RanDomino: They
need
to
get
over
it.


No modern society would simply "get over" having the occasional civilian bus blown up. None. All of them would see that as something that has to stop, and take forceful steps to see that it does. If you're unwilling to recognize that, I don't know what to say to you.
 
Displayed 12 of 512 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report