zedster: to everyone saying it's about sky fairies, Both Zionism and Palestinian nationalism started as parts of secular movements, Zionism was a response to 1800s European ethno-nationalism and Palestinian nationalism as part of the more broad early 1900s Pan-Arabism. The most religious Jews actually oppose the creation of Israel on religious grounds and Pan-Islamism didn't come about till the late 1970s with Hamas being an off shoot of it. The PLO was a secular organization at it's founding

Well yes and no. The problem is that there isn't much difference between the two that isn't religion. They're genetically indistinguishable (due to the fact that DESPITE delusions of ancestral chastity people tend to fark their neighbors) and they eat the same disgusting stinky foods and all that jazz. And those differences are how they drew their lines between "us" and "them" when they started fighting over post-Phoenicia's shiatty, shiatty land.

But yeah, it's still secular at heart. Assholes who want shiat and aren't capable of sharing. Hatfield/McCoy style feuding as quaint as it is annoying. The human condition.

fanbladesaresharp: Communist_Manifesto: fanbladesaresharp: Communist_Manifesto: fanbladesaresharp: OH cry me a farking river. Access to money my ass. Hell even the homeless guys in my town pull in $5 an hour at least. In the rain. In a remote part of CA. Sometimes, it's just best to move your ass out of the way.

A one way plane ticket from tel aviv to nyc is $530. The gross national income per capita is $1367. So you're saying they should be able to save almost have of their income for a plane ticket? What do they do when they get here? They can't buy anything, do anything etc. because they don't have money. So while your anecdote about homeless people getting $5 an hour is a great way to make yourself feel better while being a callous ass, it doesn't prove that they can simply move.

You aren't trying hard enough. Or are unemployed and NOT trying. $530 is chump change even to the street people and the weed growers and surfing Kayak for plane tickets is free at the library. So is getting a GreenDot Visa (minus the load charge) to pay for them.. Try to keep up with the times, buddy.

You're seriously arguing that since someone living on the street in America can feasibly buy a plane ticket, and in spite of the fact that the ticket price is almost have of the income of the average palestinian, that they "just aren't trying hard enough?" And why does my employment status matter at all in this? You're telling the palestinians to move, I try to explain why that's not as easy as you make it out to be and you respond to a totally different situation.

Yeah idiot, I can. So long as they have a valid ID. It's not easy? You're a goddam fool then. Thing is you make bullshiat claims in your little tirade with Tatsuma and you get called on some specifics. Your reply "you sound fat".

I just talked to a couple of the local homeless guys (that are usually drunk, if not spun out) that come into my work. They know how to work the various systems you seem to think make life impossible. They know how ...

What.....the.....fark?

US teenager's 18th in nov 2012: Congratulations! Here's your ballot...yes on 64!

Israeli teenagers 18th in nov 2012: Congratulations! Here's your Galil...

RanDomino: I'm not saying the real target is Iran... but the real target is Iran.

Of course it is. They've been attacking what are essentially Iranian assets.

Diogenes Teufelsdrockh: Vegan Meat Popsicle: Oh good. A bunch of people who think a magic sky man gave them a chunk of desert in the middle of someone else's property are going to go beat the shiat out of a bunch of people who think the appropriate response to losing their land is to blow up buses and pizzerias full of innocent people who largely had nothing to do with it.

[fc02.deviantart.net image 850x543]
/hot like the fires of hell all these people can go burn in

You know, genetically speaking, the Jews were there first and there the longest (and as the best defined location specific ethnic group). There was some hoopla a couple of years ago when the studies came out. I'm having trouble remembering where to find them, but I think this is one (unable to log in right now to verify). The Palestinians are fairly recent immigrees to the region (in consideration of that part of the world having a very deep history) moving in as a result of the Romans were doing their thing to run the Jews out. (You know, the whole ethnic cleansing, destroying their temples, outlawing the people and religion, stealing their property, etc all that fun stuff if the history I learned is right.)

The situation is a whole lotta gray once you know the actual history of the place and not the propaganda from both sides. One must be pretty retarded to think one side is right and the other wrong or that both sides are wrong. You say it's the Jews forcing their way onto someone else's property, but others could equate it to the homeowners returning after a long trip away and seeking to kick out squatters (squatters who enlisted the aid of some ethnic cleansers to run the family out in the first place). If there is any truth at all, it's probably in the middle, but where oh where? Can't be easy to find it else they wouldn't be handing Nobel Peace Prizes out like candy to anyone who seems to come close to figuring it out.

That's the biatch of it all, there is no clear-cut solution that will satisfy all parties involved... As you said, "a whole lotta gray." And with the conflicts in that region going back so far, good luck getting anyone to compromise. I believe the two-state solution to be the most equitable but unfortunately there would only be a temporary truce at best until the violence starts up again.

It's a complete clusterfark over there and I'm not comfortable with us getting dragged into yet another war in the Middle East but it's looking more and more likely. It's farking depressing that my nieces and my friends' kids have never known a time when we weren't at war.

ideamaster: TheBigJerk: I like how you contradict yourself in the same post. Makes things a lot quicker. Yeah I remember this story from back when it happened. They raided a ship they had no right to, they found NOTHING but tools and equipment that you would expect to find on an aid ship, and they refused to let a whole bunch of shiat on through because their "embargo list" is not meant to stop the militants from arming up but to keep the civilians miserable.

Did you know they banned chocolate? They stopped banning it later but that's what Israel is doing to Gaza.

How do you rebuild a destroyed neighborhood without cement?

i included it from the article, because i knew you wouldn't read it.

Didn't need to do more than skim it, since I have a functioning memory and already KNOW the story. Though to be fair I didn't remember the night-vision goggles and actually find the claim suspect.

Of course you are just spewing your ignorance. nothing but tools and equipment on an aid ship. bullet proof vests and night vision googles. yep.

Yes, exactly. Glad you agree. Because if you DIDN'T agree, if you wanted to claim that some light-enhancement goggles and (what, 2?) bulletproof vests are tools of terror I'd have to point and laugh at you. That would be as ridiculous as claiming chocolate is a military munition.

You also skipped over the part where they were offered to have their materials scanned. You are welcome to provide the embargo list if you want.

Why? The shiat you LISTED is already bananas. A war-ravaged territory is denied farking cement "because they might use it to build bunkers"? Here's the wiki article if you're curious. It was outright insane, now it's just fairly asinine. By the way "offered to have their materials scanned" was, if you didn't pay attention when it was happening, the nice way of saying, "demanded by an agency with questionable (at best) authority to hand all their goods TO said authority with the dubious promise those goods would be delivered at a later date after exhaustive search and seizure."

But it isn't worth my time arguing with you. After all night vision goggles are fun for the whole family.

Well actually, they are. But they are also useful for things like spotting things at night, which sailors are known to want to do, from time to time.

I mean there are no beautiful perfect flower-children in this tawdry tale of violence and human evil, but calling the hijacking of that ship "piracy" is at worst, mild hyperbole.

cegorach: The whole 'LEAVE ISRAEL ALONE' whinefest might hold some water if it wasn't, you know, for the fact that Israelis actively expand into Palestinian territory.
.

You know as well as anyone else that they do that to create a buffer zone because of the endless stream of crazies launching mortars and declaring "death to israel", crossing the border to capture people, and driving suicide bombers through checkpoints, to kill as many israelis as they can.

If you want to claim "but they only do that because Israel did somehting first!" and not beacause "the existance of israel is an affront to my religion" then go ahead, but you will only look silly.

Israel wouldnt need a buffer zone if the crazies WOULD JUST STOP. Israel can live with Palestine if they would be peaceful. Palistine cannot live with Israel, if Israel decided to be peaceful.

That is the fundamental reason why siding with the palestines is just... stupid. Israelis arent raised to believe they need to kill palestinians. They would be happy if palestinians just became rational people.

Russky: I just talked to a couple of the local homeless guys (that are usually drunk, if not spun out) that come into my work. They know how to work the various systems you seem to think make life impossible. They know how ...

What.....the.....fark?

I believe that's the old "if you don't like it, move" line of reasoning - a favorite with bullies and simpletons for thousands of years.

I should be in the kitchen: That's the biatch of it all, there is no clear-cut solution that will satisfy all parties involved... As you said, "a whole lotta gray." And with the conflicts in that region going back so far, good luck getting anyone to compromise. I believe the two-state solution to be the most equitable but unfortunately there would only be a temporary truce at best until the violence starts up again.

It's a complete clusterfark over there and I'm not comfortable with us getting dragged into yet another war in the Middle East but it's looking more and more likely. It's farking depressing that my nieces and my friends' kids have never known a time when we weren't at war.

To be fair, how many people have? America doesn't FEEL it like the semites but we've been at a state of perpetual war for 11-60+ years (depending on how and which wars you count). Even when they're "at peace" neither side has the ability (or particularly strong interest) in stopping 100% of the violence, and whether it's a couple of asshole college kids dumping dirty diapers in a well or a suicide bomber blowing up a bus the "peacetime" and "unsanctioned" attacks will be used as justification. Hell, to pull out the ridiculous and retarded US/Mexico comparison, only 25 cartel-related kidnappings was counted as "No 'spillover' violence from Mexican drug-cartel wars.

RanDomino: Communist_Manifesto
Because you didn't include the phrase hamas sucks your argument is invalid apparently. I had Tatsuma upthread argue that because there weren't Israelis in gaza right now and they had a border with Egypt that Israel didn't control palestine at all. Then he tried to equate the US and Mexico to Israel and Palestine.

Tatsuma is one of the few people on Fark I would not hesitate to call evil and I sincerely hope he eats a Qassam in the next few weeks.

Also, Jordan is Israel's Mexico.

Because he's a dirty jew and ate your children? How adorable. I bet you're a blast at parties.

willfullyobscure: I should be in the kitchen: SkunkWerks: willfullyobscure: RELIGION OF PEACE

Funny enough from the standpoint of the history of human society, the point at which religion goes from worshiping feminine nature-based figures to revering male deities is typically shortly after you've seen the move from roaming, hunting and gathering societies that depend a lot on luck to survive (finding food, no ill turns in the weather which push herds away from their typical gathering places, and s on) to agrarian societies that don't move around much and whose survival depends largely on having big stockpiles of stuff.

Stuff you can take by force.

Then it's handy to make God a man 'cause, yanno, war's a man's game and all. All the Abrahamic faiths (including Christianity, Islam, and yes, Judaism)share more or less the same male deity, soooo.... you get this.

Very interesting point, thank you.

I'm not religious myself but find religions fascinating, especially as they relate to the history of mankind. I don't suppose you know of a book or website that goes into further depth about what you said? I'm always looking for new reading material :-)

It's new age wishful thinking.Link

Hunter gathers were just as violent and bloodthirsty as civilized societies. Hippies and Wiccans like to pretend otherwise to justify their critiques of modern society, but its all nonsense. The Pawnee, which certainly fit the definition above, kept slaves, engaged in human sacrifice and regular wars with rival tribes as late as the 1840s. All prechristian societies, agricultural or hunter-gatherer, did the same. Link

People are just people- religion is a symptom, not the disease.

Interesting, and thanks for sharing links!

Franko: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 500x303]

It strikes me as ironic that when a movie is made about Americans fighting against an invading/occupying force, they are seen as heroes.

But when Arabs do it in the real world, they're terrorists.

indeed.

I'm confused. A "defense" force that "attacks"?

It's almost like they chose the name IDF so people would always subconsciously presume they only fought in order to defend themselves.

And it's almost like anytime they go on the offensive, they claim it's part of a larger defensive tactic.

mrsirjojo: I'm confused. A "defense" force that "attacks"?

It's almost like they chose the name IDF so people would always subconsciously presume they only fought in order to defend themselves.

And it's almost like anytime they go on the offensive, they claim it's part of a larger defensive tactic.

exactly.

marsgwar: nmemkha: So we agree, they have a right to be upset. Given Israel's decades long brutal occupation, violence is expected and arguably justified.

So is the retaliation by Israel. It's called a war. If Native American tribes started shooting rockets at US tragets to get back land, we would retaliate accordingly and wouldn't be wrong for doing so.

yes.

we were wrong.

it was wrong then...and it's wrong now.

Yo! Semite Sam! Look out - he's got a falafel!

Communist_Manifesto: Israel does not allow freedom of movement for palestinians within Israel

Tatsuma: America does not allow freedom of movement of Mexicans in Israel. APARTHEID


Did ... did you just have a stroke? Do you need help?

Seraphym: My list of red names always swells during one of these threads.

Thank you for coming out of the woodwork, you illogical poorly-studied simpletons, and taking Hamas' side. You certainly didn't add anything new to the "debate," but reading your moronic hatred and basic inability to grasp simple fact and logic is always usually amusing. 

And, speaking of illogical poorly-studied simpletons, again we're back to there being only two "sides."

fanbladesaresharp: Communist_Manifesto: Seraphym: My list of red names always swells during one of these threads.

Thank you for coming out of the woodwork, you illogical poorly-studied simpletons, and taking Hamas' side. You certainly didn't add anything new to the "debate," but reading your moronic hatred and basic inability to grasp simple fact and logic is always usually amusing. 

/why yes, that's pure ad hominem... I'm not trying to debate you, your position has been crushed by not only multiple prior Fark threads but by the majority of modern western leaders' opinions as well (ooh, argumentum ad populum et ad vericundiam too!)
//but that's why you're so entertaining... you're like truthers, you just never quit

You sound fat

Ooooh, The communist is butthurt. If "you sound fat" is your retort, you've lost the arguement, homey. Go troll another thread.

That whooshing sound was the joke going over your head.

RanDomino: Tatsuma is one of the few people on Fark I would not hesitate to call evil and I sincerely hope he eats a Qassam in the next few weeks.

Really? Isn't that a little harsh?

Overzealous, certainly. A bit derptastic, probably. But evil?

BigNumber12: ciberido: RanDomino: Tatsuma is one of the few people on Fark I would not hesitate to call evil and I sincerely hope he eats a Qassam in the next few weeks.

Really? Isn't that a little harsh?

Overzealous, certainly. A bit derptastic, probably. But evil?


The world is a much simpler place when you just write off smart people who disagree with you as "consciously evil." Because it's unpossible for two people on opposite sides of an issue to both legitimately belive that they're advocating for the justified, correct side.

you assume he's smart.

you do not know the pre-conversion "tats".

not. at. all.

Communist_Manifesto: bostonguy: Objectively speaking, the ball is in the Palestinians' court. Israel just wants to be left alone. If terrorists in Gaza would simply STOP. FIRING. ROCKETS. then Israel would leave Gaza alone. After all, Israel packed up and left. But, no, the extremists there do not want Israel to exist.

Full stop. That's the situation.

I believe that's an oversimplification, but I agree Palestinians need to stop firing the rockets. On the different side of the same token though, there are Israeli extremists who do not want Palestine to exist. I just think that since Israel has pretty much ALL of the power (let's face it, the iron dome shoots most of these rockets down and they have an airforce and tanks etc.) it is Israel who has to stop the cycle. Maybe instead of responding to rocket attacks, respond with food drops instead of bombs. It's a very messed up situation but I believe that power dynamics only truly change when the entity with the most power decides to give some of it up.
To a degree, they have given some of it up. They stopped occupying Gaza, gave more autonomy to the West Bank, and generally gave Hamas free reign on the political side of the court when it came to Gaza, while tacitly supporting Fatah as the "legitimate" rulers of Palestine (Fun fact for people who keep saying Fatah / Hamas is the legit democratically elected government of the people: There were supposed to be re-elections on both sides a long, long time ago. They are both essentially straw-dictators supported by opposing factions. I saw straw because without the support they are getting, they would topple and the other side would pounce like a starved dog on sirloin)

Cast Lead in 08/09 gave Israel "back" some of the power (it also actually turned Gazan's public opinion somewhat against Hamas, not that it matters to anyone), but reversed the trend, unfortunately. Since Cast Lead, GDP and GNI have been rising -- dramatically, in Gaza and the West Bank, especially after the embargo was lessened as part of a cease-fire deal.

My personal belief, as someone with a pretty big stake in this whole thing, is that Israel has a good short term anti-terror policy (Targeted Killings, denial of attack), but really, really terrible long term strategy. A lot of people support or turn to terrorism because they have not many salient options left to those around them (generally, low ranking terrorists are from the middle class and act "on behalf" of those less fortunate than them). If Israel allowed more growth in the occupied territories, then the people who currently support terrorism or for whom terrorism is acted "on behalf of" would have a lot more to lose from a military conflict, and hence, there would be less support.

None of this works without a functioning democracy on the side of the Palestinians, however. The current crop of leaders don't give two farks about the people, they just want to spit in Israel's eye. And Israel isn't too keen on there being a democracy nearby which could better advocate against the settlers.

i was here.

i saw it all go down.

he was a bush licking drone...from the states...who is a transplant "jew".

he's no more "jewish"...than the people who are bombing gaza.

he's "hipster jewish"...if there ever was such a thing.

ciberido: RanDomino: Tatsuma is one of the few people on Fark I would not hesitate to call evil and I sincerely hope he eats a Qassam in the next few weeks.

Really? Isn't that a little harsh?

Overzealous, certainly. A bit derptastic, probably. But evil?

lol...he's not evil.

he just longs to be.

-there is a difference.

TheBigJerk: ideamaster: TheBigJerk: I like how you contradict yourself in the same post. Makes things a lot quicker. Yeah I remember this story from back when it happened. They raided a ship they had no right to, they found NOTHING but tools and equipment that you would expect to find on an aid ship, and they refused to let a whole bunch of shiat on through because their "embargo list" is not meant to stop the militants from arming up but to keep the civilians miserable.

Did you know they banned chocolate? They stopped banning it later but that's what Israel is doing to Gaza.

How do you rebuild a destroyed neighborhood without cement?

i included it from the article, because i knew you wouldn't read it.

Didn't need to do more than skim it, since I have a functioning memory and already KNOW the story. Though to be fair I didn't remember the night-vision goggles and actually find the claim suspect.

Of course you are just spewing your ignorance. nothing but tools and equipment on an aid ship. bullet proof vests and night vision googles. yep.

Yes, exactly. Glad you agree. Because if you DIDN'T agree, if you wanted to claim that some light-enhancement goggles and (what, 2?) bulletproof vests are tools of terror I'd have to point and laugh at you. That would be as ridiculous as claiming chocolate is a military munition.

You also skipped over the part where they were offered to have their materials scanned. You are welcome to provide the embargo list if you want.

Why? The shiat you LISTED is already bananas. A war-ravaged territory is denied farking cement "because they might use it to build bunkers"? Here's the wiki article if you're curious. It was outright insane, now it's just fairly asinine. By the way "offered to have their materials scanned" was, if you didn't pay attention when it was happening, the nice way of saying, "demanded by an agency with questionable (at best) authority to hand all their goods TO said authority with the dubious promise those goods would be delivered at a later date after exhaustive search and seizure."

But it isn't worth my time arguing with you. After all night vision goggles are fun for the whole family.

Well actually, they are. But they are also useful for things like spotting things at night, which sailors are known to want to do, from time to time.

I mean there are no beautiful perfect flower-children in this tawdry tale of violence and human evil, but calling the hijacking of that ship "piracy" is at worst, mild hyperbole.

It was searched. It's intended and published destination was already Israel. So they prevented any prohibited materials from entering.

That hardly accounts to piracy. Especially since they were offered to land at an authorized port and have thier cargo inspected.

If they had nothing to hide then why didn't they accept the proper port and be searched? Also in the event you didn't know. Other weapons that fit into nice wooden boxes are easy to throw overboard.

If you still want to claim to your piracy nonsense them go right ahead. And I will file you in the right wing nut job folder. And that is an affront to right wing nut jobs.

Also it is clear that you don't have children (or you are too stupid to realize) that they will always test thier boundaries. They might not be commiting a cardinal offense today. But they are looking go a chance to see exactly what they can get away with and how.

If you don't find a list of embargoed materials and bring that to the conversation. You can consider this conversation over.

After all you of superior knowledge and intellect and you extoll of the non-weaponized virtues of concrete. I look forward to a discussion on the supreme evils of the devil Israel and thier extreme oppression on a mon-existent nation called Palestine and the non-existent "palestinian" peoples. No embargo list, no discussion.

BigNumber12: ideamaster: If you still want to claim to your piracy nonsense them go right ahead. And I will file you in the right wing nut job folder. And that is an affront to right wing nut jobs.


How does that make him "right wing?" That really seems to be becoming a catch-all insult anymore, like "troll" or "hipster."

-- That was sort of the point of the example. Chances are he would hate to be grouped as a right wing person, so that was simply my chosen label. Hence the "and that is an affront to right wing nut jobs".

Writing is not my strong point, however it appears that you have taken a similar agreement with me that calling someone a right wing nut job is essentially banging on the table.

ciberido: Seraphym: My list of red names always swells during one of these threads.

Thank you for coming out of the woodwork, you illogical poorly-studied simpletons, and taking Hamas' side. You certainly didn't add anything new to the "debate," but reading your moronic hatred and basic inability to grasp simple fact and logic is always usually amusing. 

And, speaking of illogical poorly-studied simpletons, again we're back to there being only two "sides."

Nice try, but.... when it comes to "It's okay for Hamas to fire rockets at and suicide bomb among Israeli citizens, or it's not," there really are only two sides. Beyond that, I insinuated nothing in my post about any position or opinion limitations for any potential solution. But you knew that and just wanted to get in that quick jab. You missed, watch your footing next time.

Communist_Manifesto: I'd continually launch rockets at you as well if you kept me segregated in an apartheid prison state and were never going to let me out ever. It's time for Israel to give gaza and the west bank back to the palesitinians and let them administer themselves as a sovereign nation. If they still continue the rocket fire farkery after that, then nuke them for all I care. At least you could say you tried instead of looking like a bunch of complete assholes trying to keep a group of people living in utter despair.
They did try.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#Reasons_for_impas s e

Arafat walked away from the table because he didn't want a two-state solution. He wanted Israel gone.

Heh.

Every other day it seems I run into people who don't understand that just because someone is living in poverty, hungry, sick, almost powerless and weak, that doesn't automatically make them the good guys. I know the US loves an underdog, but some folks are just plain stupid about this.

The truth of the matter is very simple: As soon as Palestinians care more about their own children and lives than they do about killing jews, their whole world is going to get a lot better. Once they focus on making their lives better and not other people's worse, they'll quickly have access to industry, business, education, health care, art, technology, and maybe even be able to participate in global culture.

Kids throwing rocks at tanks is a powerful emotional image of defiance. It's easy to forget which side is actually the aggressor, and why the tanks had to be there in the first place.

Sadly, they've got that head disease called religion, and it's apparently better to have your children dismembered by return fire than to, say, not fire mortars from their bedroom or a school.

Seraphym: ciberido: Seraphym: My list of red names always swells during one of these threads.

Thank you for coming out of the woodwork, you illogical poorly-studied simpletons, and taking Hamas' side. You certainly didn't add anything new to the "debate," but reading your moronic hatred and basic inability to grasp simple fact and logic is always usually amusing. 

And, speaking of illogical poorly-studied simpletons, again we're back to there being only two "sides."

Nice try, but.... when it comes to "It's okay for Hamas to fire rockets at and suicide bomb among Israeli citizens, or it's not," there really are only two sides. Beyond that, I insinuated nothing in my post about any position or opinion limitations for any potential solution. But you knew that and just wanted to get in that quick jab. You missed, watch your footing next time.

It's cute that you think this is a contest with you the judge of the winner.

RanDomino: quietwalker
As soon as Palestinians care more about their own children and lives than they do about killing jews,

woof woof bark meow

Was that supposed to be a clever response? I see now! Let's look at your continued focus on the 2008 cease fire truce:

In 2008, two enemies who see every move by the other as a potential attack call a truce, and though neither side is completely committed, nor successful in maintaining their promises, much of the attempted murder stops.

However, the weaker party decides it has suffered one too many violations, even as they have violations of their own, and call off the truce, attacking by targeting civilian populations.

It may not have seemed fair to the palestinians, but this was not a very clever response - they were devastated as israel made good on their threats of escalated retaliation.

That's without addressing the ethical or legal issues of deliberately attacking a civilian population and indiscriminately firing ordnance into civilian areas, which regardless of it's provocation is considered a war crime.

Perhaps it will be of some comfort that you appear to have a response as clever as the Palestinians?

The thing I love about these threads is that I an genuinely convinced that at least half a dozen people in here are the same guy. Wasn't this proven a while back when that person responded to himself and forgot to switch to his alt?

RanDomino: ISO15693
Wow. Somebody defending Hamas.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x579]

Is there some aspect of this chart that you find disagreeable? Do you have some contradicting evidence, perhaps?
Will you just be ignoring it, like every other Israel apologist so far?

I find this chart fascinating. Can you show me the period on the chart with ZERO attacks?

No?

And yet you claim one party was "holding up their end of the agreement."

Unless that agreement was to only fire "a couple" of shells a month, then your chart is not showing you something useful.