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(Examiner)   Texans call for boycott of new foreign owned toll highway   (examiner.com) divider line 101
    More: Interesting, toll roads, target markets, Trans Texas Corridor, telephone operators, boycotts, Tyler Seguin, I-35  
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4148 clicks; posted to Business » on 14 Nov 2012 at 12:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-14 12:21:50 PM
This shiat should be illegal.
 
2012-11-14 12:22:05 PM
Texas, against privatization? Never thought I'd see the day.
 
2012-11-14 12:23:38 PM
If Texans were to vote for a state constitutional amendment against foreign ownership of roads would Cintra be able to do anything?
 
2012-11-14 12:25:24 PM
They did this in Ontario with the 407. Since they sold it off, the company has continued to increase the rates whenever they damn well feel like it. Unless I absolutely have to, I refuse to drive on it - it's about $25 each way to get across Toronto from where I am. I wouldn't care so much if the money was staying in the province to support the infrastructure.
 
2012-11-14 12:25:30 PM
Rick Perry has a massive hard on for toll roads.
 
2012-11-14 12:26:50 PM
1: Sell toll road
2: Refuse to use the toll road
3: Buy buy toll road at a discount from frustrated interests.
Go to Step 1
 
2012-11-14 12:29:23 PM
I dunno. The headline makes it sound like Texas just being dumb ol' Texas, but there's actually a lot of really sketchy stuff listed, like bribing the DOT for high speed limits and re-naming parts of the free roads nearby to match the toll road to mislead people who aren't totally sure where they're going
 
2012-11-14 12:30:24 PM
How many of these people voted for Rick Perry?
 
2012-11-14 12:30:27 PM
My first thought: "fark those whiny nativist assholes. This is the same b.s. that Dubai Ports World got caught up in."

After reading the article: "oh, it has nothing really to do with foreign ownership and everything to do with corporate welfare."

So the "foreign-owned" part of the headline is really a red herring.

/now I'm going to go home and sleep with my wife.
 
2012-11-14 12:30:50 PM
Yeah, that's all kinds of FAIL.

Except for Cintras.
 
2012-11-14 12:31:43 PM

Lost Thought 00: 1: Sell toll road
2: Refuse to use the toll road
3: Buy buy toll road at a discount from frustrated interests.
Go to Step 1


That won't happen. If the toll roads are producing enough revenue, the same politicians that took the bribes to allow the toll road to be sold in the first place will take additional bribes to lower the speed limits on the alternate non-toll roads.
 
2012-11-14 12:32:24 PM
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/new-york-to-repeat -chicago-s-parking-meter-catastrophe-20120613

At least with roads you get a choice.
 
2012-11-14 12:32:51 PM
So what you're telling me is that SH-130 will be clear this weekend if 35 gets backed up due to the F1 race?

Awesome. Good to have alternate routes. The higher speed limit would be nice, if I weren't going to be driving a crappy rental. Too bad I won't have my bikes or car with me.
 
2012-11-14 12:36:22 PM

Kuroshin: So what you're telling me is that SH-130 will be clear this weekend if 35 gets backed up due to the F1 race?

Awesome. Good to have alternate routes. The higher speed limit would be nice, if I weren't going to be driving a crappy rental. Too bad I won't have my bikes or car with me.


You have to take 130 to get to COTA.
 
2012-11-14 12:37:51 PM

Kuroshin: So what you're telling me is that SH-130 will be clear this weekend if 35 gets backed up due to the F1 race?

Awesome. Good to have alternate routes. The higher speed limit would be nice, if I weren't going to be driving a crappy rental. Too bad I won't have my bikes or car with me.


Pretty sure 130 is going to be a nightmare as it is closer to the F1 track than all the other freeways.
 
2012-11-14 12:43:00 PM
but private owned prisons are still ok?
 
2012-11-14 12:43:30 PM
Suck on that free market, biatches. Suck on it long and hard.

Whine about the government not being good for anything and how it all aught to be privatized. It makes me laugh when you cry about getting exactly what you asked for.
 
2012-11-14 12:45:07 PM
I'm cool with this boycott. Roads should be publicly funded, anyways.

/ I'm also OK with paying taxes ( at the gas pump ) to help pay for nice things..
 
2012-11-14 12:48:49 PM
In Virginia we're about to start giving our tolls to Australians. They're white and speak English, so nobody seems upset by it.
 
2012-11-14 12:52:22 PM
Is it me, or is crazy getting crazier???
 
2012-11-14 12:52:53 PM

Carth: If Texans were to vote for a state constitutional amendment against foreign ownership of roads would Cintra be able to do anything?


Yes, stop them under the contract clause.

United States Constitution, Article I, section 10, clause 1.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
 
2012-11-14 12:54:09 PM
If I drive exclusively on privately owned toll roads, can I get out of paying the gas tax? It seems only fair.
 
2012-11-14 12:54:17 PM
Freak them out and ask if they are really going to drive on the socialist roads instead?
 
2012-11-14 12:55:17 PM
Isn't this the free market paradise they have been begging for down there?
 
2012-11-14 12:56:22 PM
Texas - It's like a whole other country!
 
2012-11-14 01:01:38 PM

Uzzah: My first thought: "fark those whiny nativist assholes. This is the same b.s. that Dubai Ports World got caught up in."

After reading the article: "oh, it has nothing really to do with foreign ownership and everything to do with corporate welfare."

So the "foreign-owned" part of the headline is really a red herring.

/now I'm going to go home and sleep with my wife.


Call before you get here, we'd like to clean up a little
 
2012-11-14 01:08:20 PM

Dead for Tax Reasons: but private owned prisons are still ok?


The mentality is that both privately-owned prisons and these PeePeePee-done toll roads are A-OK... because we (the people with this type of mentality) don't use them so we don't pay tolls or for being in prison.

And the argument about "your taxes paid for all of that" is useless.
 
2012-11-14 01:10:15 PM
What I read is TxDOT has no way to enforce the collection of tolls from out-of-state drivers or those from out of the country

I might have to drive out to Texas to try out this free 85 MPH tollway.
 
2012-11-14 01:10:17 PM
Private roads are stupid for many reasons. None of those reasons are the fact they can be owned by foreign corporations
 
2012-11-14 01:13:28 PM
You did not build that!

This is what the context of that quote was about. So pay your taxes, build the infrastructure and use it.
 
2012-11-14 01:15:33 PM
Just like to Texas to go out of their way to prove the "you didn't build that" democrats wrong.
 
2012-11-14 01:16:08 PM
You made your laissez-faire bed, you farking sleep in it Textards
 
2012-11-14 01:18:39 PM
Why do Texans hate free markets, free trade, enterprise and job creators?

BECAUSE THEY ARE FARKING HYPOCRITES.

No, seriously.

Let's see what they have to say for themselves.

Love of public safety (Nanny Statism)
The Texas Trucker's Association has lost its need for speed. On this one particular pay road, that is. It's not safe, you see.

And why is a corporation allowing Texans to drive as fast as they please (or at least a bit faster than the Nanny State might allow on state-owned roads? Because corporations are greedy and profit driven:

" ... No matter how you slice it, their decisions are being made out of profit and greed, not the public interest."

Yep. The Occupy Texas movement couldn't have said it better.

And there is worse. Not only are corporations greedy, they're willing to pay the greedy government regulators big bucks:

"It throwing public safety under the bus out of pure greed. Things like speed limits are being manipulated for money for the benefit a private corporation. If Cintra was willing to part with $100 million to bribe our highway department to jack-up the speed limit, they think they're going to cash-in. TxDOT has demonstrated time and again it'll do anything for a buck, and this time, they've gone too far."

They've gone too far! The Government just doesn't understand that you can't let money make the decisions! They're just in it for the money. Profit, profit, profit, that's all the Government paid bureaucrats who don't make an extra cent for serving greedy corporations think of!

The players:

Side A
Cilantro Cintro, the evil greedy corporation that just happens to be Spanish, not American
The greedy, profit-driven Texas government transportation department (TxDOT) that makes the rules
Texas Transportation Commission, a conspiracy of corporation-lovers
Lockhart City Council (the greedy bastards who want a discount for their citizens)
Caldwell County Commissioners (more greedy, evil freeloaders on the corporation's dime)

Side B
Those who don't own Cintro.
Those who are all for free, unlimited, subsidized, government-run, taxpayer paid, highways, and not paying for government services that they themselves use a lot of at the expense of the general public, namely:

American Trucking Association
Governor's Highway Safety Association (not a real Governor's Association although it sounds mighty official)
Texans Uniting for Reform and Freedom (TURF) (a special interest group with a nice name)
Texans for Accountable Government (TAG) (another special interest group with a nice name)

Protection of the Public Purse
"Taxpayer money is subsidizing this toll road for private profits. Politicians from the president and Rick Perry on down are socializing the losses and privatizing the profits."

Of course, this is nothing like the Commie rhetoric used against the bootstrapy corporations and job makers of America. It may be made up of exactly the same words in exactly the same order as the objections to everything Obama has done in the last four years (and which Bush did before him, oddly enough), but it isn't radicalism because it is us.

Who is us? Remind me please. I forget.

Now, personally, as a liberal and a quasi-socialist on sunny days, I am not very fond of the so-called British or European invention, "the Private Public Partnership". It reminds me of the SOBs who owned the water, the sewers, the schools, the hospitals, and so forth in Dickensian England. Mainly because the same SOBs who owned the prisons, the workhouses, the water, the schools, etc, in Victorian times own them still or have been replaced by more of the same. Meet the Workhouse Taskmaster, now Director of Re-Employment Services with the Tory Government's approval.

No, I do not object to a bit of muckracking. I do not resent a bit of socialism or a touch of commie radical or progressive rhetoric.

But I can't help but noticing that all this rhetoric is directed against a liberal democracy, an ally of the USA (even when it was Fascist under Franco, who is, I wish to note, still dead, thank God for small mercies), and a partner with the USA in the globalized economy.

The free market, globalized economy. The free-trading, globalized economy. I wouldn't be surprised if there is not some sort of bilateral free trade agreement which allows foreign corporations to own private roads in the US and US corporations to own private roads in Spain. Even if there aren't any or nobody wants them.

In short, this looks like an attempt to have you cake and eat it too. Business as usual, in other words.

Fark business as usual. Nonetheless, I was relieved to find that the evil greedy corporation that is screwing concessions out of the poor benighted evil and greedy Texan DOT and other transportation authorities is not Canadian, or God forbid, Mexican.

Thank God for small mercies--NAFTA rules are not involved here or we could all end up driving on US-owned roads, even here in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, North America, the Earth, the Solar Space, the Galaxy, Space, the Universe.

Adrian Mole is a ratfink. Yah, boo! says Molesworth.

But seriously. Good thing or bad thing? Governments doing business with corporations, privatizing right and left (mostly to the right, to the right, to the right, like Sonny Bono according to a joke told by Bob Dole about how right wing he was in Congress).

Well, it looks to me like it is business as usual, neither a good thing, nor a bad thing, but just a thing.

My father was in the trucking business for a good part of his career and his company did business all the way to Florida. American states are mighty partial to local truckers. In some states you can drive a leaky rat-trap past a cop a hundred times a day--unless you are an out-of-stater. Of course, if the cops realize there is a Canada at all, they think it is one of those states out there, you know, in that vague zone of the map where you can't remember all the state capitals or even the state names.

But partiality to the local business man is what America is all about. If you want to ruin a corporation, get up a Buy American campaign and tell people that you suspect they are French and might not even be from around here.

Perhaps my information is only hearsay, but hearsay put bread and steak on the table, and sometimes when a trucker was going to the North Shore, lobster at baloney prices.

I am not outraged by all this. Only very, very hurt. Because my father could have been making a lot more money (admittedly the money he made was pretty good--enough to put him way up the social scale in terms of percentiles of income and wealth).

Hope there's some of the money left when my mother dies at the age of 112. They are looking a lot frailer than they used to, but they're in damn good shape for old people. They climbed the highest mountain in New Brunswick a few weeks back. It took them about four hours or maybe five, which is about half the time they took to go up the professional climber side of the highest mountaini in Maine when they were in their fifties. Apparently the mountain looks smooth from a distance but it is made up of giant blocks of rock when you get close, which slow you down a lot.

Any hoo, back to our capitalist sheep here's a tip for commies and socialists and community organizers: you can really learn a Hell of a lot about how corrupt and unfair the system is when business people are on the wrong side of a PPP.

Well, I guess that is my main point. I don't know or cares who owns the roads of Texas. Toll roads were quite common in the bootstrapy days of the Founding Fathers. The Founding Fathers probably had a few shares in more than a few of them, seeing as all the Founding Fathers but one were rich white men and the lone exception among the Signataries was a rich peasant farmer, almost a rich white man.

And remember, SCREW WITH TEXAS AND TEXANS. They'll respect you for it. At least if you get rich and are white, male and Texan.
 
2012-11-14 01:19:41 PM
I am confused. So do they give the Texas DoT a cut of what they collect or is this just now a completely and entirely privately owned road? I always thought they put tolls in place to pay for the construction of a road and that at some point, when the construction was paid off, the tolls would stop (although I've never seen that actually happen).
 
kab
2012-11-14 01:24:56 PM
15 cents per mile, to go 85? Ooooh, where do I sign up?

No but seriously, fark you. The laughable toll cost is more than enough to never bother using this road, nevermind where the money's going.
 
2012-11-14 01:32:51 PM

Wellon Dowd: Carth: If Texans were to vote for a state constitutional amendment against foreign ownership of roads would Cintra be able to do anything?

Yes, stop them under the contract clause.

United States Constitution, Article I, section 10, clause 1.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.


They could eminent-domain the road away from Cintra, but they'd have to pay for it.

That being said, I freaking hate toll roads and especially privately-owned toll roads. Roads are a public good, to be used for and by everyone - they are almost by definition a function of the state. State-owned toll roads are stupid; we have fuel taxes and property taxes speficially to pay for public roads already - if we need more money for some road, raise those taxes. Privately-owned toll roads are even worse - they're strongly encouraging the public to give money to a private entity.
 
2012-11-14 01:33:42 PM

brantgoose: Why do Texans hate free markets, free trade, enterprise and job creators?

BECAUSE THEY ARE FARKING HYPOCRITES.

No, seriously.

Let's see what they have to say for themselves.


Yeah, San Antonio and Austin are just full of the bootstrappy type.

/smh
 
2012-11-14 01:38:25 PM
WOW! Critical infrastructure should be kept in local hands?

If it is private, it can be sold. To anyone, anywhere.

It if is public, WE THE PEOPLE OWN IT.

Y'all just figgered it out?
 
2012-11-14 01:41:25 PM
So don't drive on the road. Take the slower, longer route as you watch how many people continue to pay the $$ and zip along. You have choices, but, that doesn't mean you have to like either option.
 
2012-11-14 01:42:20 PM
Given the history of Texas with respect to Spain, I am not surprised.
 
2012-11-14 01:45:39 PM

iron_city_ap: So don't drive on the road. Take the slower, longer route as you watch how many people continue to pay the $$ and zip along. You have choices, but, that doesn't mean you have to like either option.


That presumes no policy exists to prevent the introduction of a better alternative.

Exhibit 17: Link 

Oh, wait. There is one and that it prevents any upgrades of highways near it.
 
2012-11-14 02:03:13 PM

rtaylor92: ollect or is this just now a completely and entirely privately owned road? I always thought they put tolls in place to pay for the construction of a road and that at some point, when the construction was paid off, the tolls would stop (although


I've been taking yearly motorbike trips up the east coast into Canada and up the Cabot trail....last year, when entering St. John NB, I noticed the toll on the bridge across town had been removed. That evening, we asked the bartender what the deal was, and he explained that the bridge had been paid for so they removed it. He didn't understand our shock/surprise....
 
2012-11-14 02:05:03 PM

Sasquach: rtaylor92: ollect or is this just now a completely and entirely privately owned road? I always thought they put tolls in place to pay for the construction of a road and that at some point, when the construction was paid off, the tolls would stop (although

I've been taking yearly motorbike trips up the east coast into Canada and up the Cabot trail....last year, when entering St. John NB, I noticed the toll on the bridge across town had been removed. That evening, we asked the bartender what the deal was, and he explained that the bridge had been paid for so they removed it. He didn't understand our shock/surprise....


They did that in Kentucky as well. Bunch of nice intra-state limited access highways with wide spots that used to be toll plazas.

/strange.
 
2012-11-14 02:17:11 PM
Rick Perry doesn't want Texas to secede: that would be competition for his plan to sell the state one piece of infrastructure at a time.

But Mitch Daniels laughs at Texas. Because he got promoted to president of Macquarie State University at Purdue.
 
2012-11-14 02:26:27 PM

iron_city_ap: So don't drive on the road. Take the slower, longer route as you watch how many people continue to pay the $$ and zip along. You have choices, but, that doesn't mean you have to like either option.


I agree mostly, but having the toll people bribe TX-DOT to raise the speed limit on the toll road while simultaneously lowering it on the free road is BS.
 
2012-11-14 02:27:29 PM
bbbbutt, but, but smaller govermint.
 
2012-11-14 02:34:16 PM

Omnivorous: Rick Perry doesn't want Texas to secede: that would be competition for his plan to sell the state one piece of infrastructure at a time.


I am planning on doing another Whitehouse Petition to sell the Louisiana Purchase back to France and reopen the Treaty of Guadalupe Hildago so we can surrender to Mexico and let them keep Texas.

I think that just might do it.
 
2012-11-14 02:39:58 PM

Rent Party: Omnivorous: Rick Perry doesn't want Texas to secede: that would be competition for his plan to sell the state one piece of infrastructure at a time.


I am planning on doing another Whitehouse Petition to sell the Louisiana Purchase back to France and reopen the Treaty of Guadalupe Hildago so we can surrender to Mexico and let them keep Texas.

I think that just might do it.


You're too late
 
2012-11-14 03:17:17 PM
Your "America first" leaders sold out to foreign interests. Surprise!
 
2012-11-14 03:17:45 PM
People who don't live near this road generally have no idea. The tollway is really too far out of the way to make a difference going to Austin from San Antonio. Seguin is east of San Antonio. And there really is no time benefit as I can see based on its route.

Plus, you might miss out on the enormous Buckee's on 35.
 
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