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(CBS DC)   Dog owners are "devocalizing" their dogs to curtail the pets from barking. Some people have a problem with this   (washington.cbslocal.com) divider line 268
    More: Obvious, American Veterinary Medical Association, pets  
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4992 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Nov 2012 at 8:31 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-14 11:31:05 AM  

Lollipop165: All of my indoor cats through out my life have had their front claws done as kittens during their neutering with no problems. Kittens are sore for about a day and then they act like it never happened. My only mistake was getting my older cat done, which I do regret. She was in a lot of pain and had complications. I won't ever do it to an older cat again.


I think the horror stories about how declawed cats are in pain come from people who had their cats declawed when they were older, probably because the cats were scratching their furniture. When done as a kitten, by a competent vet, there aren't any long term issues.

You *CAN* train a cat to use just the appropriate scratching posts, btw, just like you can train them to use the litter box. But you have to start young, and be consistent.
 
2012-11-14 11:32:32 AM  
lh5.ggpht.com
 
2012-11-14 11:39:54 AM  
if u take LSD u can sometimes hear what the dog's saying. and it's not just hey hey hey
sometimes it's more obvious
 
2012-11-14 11:42:34 AM  

HailRobonia: I know someone who owns a partially declawed cat; the front claws were removed. So the cat learned to do a ninja jump-double-kick with its hind legs when it want to fark something up.


I've always assumed that de-clawing meant front claws only. I had my cats front claws removed when it was a kitten. I intended it to be a indoor cat but he runs outside all the time and has loads of fun fighting other cats. He's half their size but seems to do well for himself. Found another cats collar on our stoop the other day.
From what I've witnessed cats fight by holding on to each other with their front arms in a sort of horozontal bear hug and use the back claws to attack. Seems like it's mostly for show.
 
2012-11-14 11:43:31 AM  

trappedspirit: It's called personification. It's a good thing to learn to recognize before it gets out of control.


You sound like my dog.
 
2012-11-14 11:45:53 AM  

rev. dave: A good example of people who should not be allowed to have a dog.


Same for those who "De-Claw" cats
 
2012-11-14 11:46:55 AM  

HailRobonia: I know someone who owns a partially declawed cat; the front claws were removed. So the cat learned to do a ninja jump-double-kick with its hind legs when it want to fark something up.


Growing up, our cats were indoor/outdoor cats. My parents had their front claws removed so they wouldn't damage the furniture, but left their back claws so they could still climb up trees and defend themselves when in confrontations with other cats (they could still rake with their back claws). My mom considered weekly clipping, but several cats she had before I came into the picture severely disliked the practice and usually squirmed and scratched when she tried.

I've heard about cats being incorrectly declawed that left them in permanent pain, but I don't know of anybody personally who had this issue when they had the procedure done to their cats. Could have been that at one time we had a rash of bad vets, but now because of increased awareness, vets are being more vigilant about doing the procedure correctly.
 
2012-11-14 11:47:24 AM  

simplicimus: shortymac: RubberBabyBuggyBumpers: abhorrent1: Yeah, that's not a nice thing to do to the poor puppies. declawing cats is still okay though.

Indoor cats, sure. Cat doesn't get yelled at for destroying furniture, human doesn't have to yell at cat, furniture doesn't get destroyed, and cat doesn't need to hunt for food or protect itself.

Or you know you could train your cat to not scratch.

But that would take some time, thought, and responsibility but no one has that these days.

Train a cat not to scratch? They need to scratch to renew their claws, much like you (I assume) trim your fingernails.


Scratch only appropriate areas.
 
2012-11-14 11:48:59 AM  

lolumadbro: beagle


Beagles generally fall among the smarter majority of dogs.

But dogs, of all breeds, are just like humans - some are brighter than others; some have difficulty learning; some have difficulty developing proper social behavior; some have difficulty taking orders; some love the sound of their own voice...
... some are just plain retarded.

Some are geniuses!
 
2012-11-14 11:51:30 AM  

Dinjiin: I May Be Crazy But...: Here's the thing. Dogs bark for a reason, mostly. They aren't just making noise to make noise like when your smart ass brother gives your 5 year old a kazoo for Christmas. So don't cut out their vocal cords.

The problem is, often that reason is because the dog is isolated, lonely and bored. So the asshat owners ruin the quality of life for every neighbor around them as their dogs bark incessantly all day long.


I found that having two dogs prevents the isolation, loneliness and boredom. They have nightly play time with each other. We call them seal fights, because there's a movement and barking but no damage done. On the otherhand, they're both Spaniels, so pretty much harmless, except for the vigorous sniffing and occasional licking.
 
2012-11-14 11:52:33 AM  

freetomato: AcneVulgaris: freetomato: Anyone who allows their dogs to bark incessantly is a neglectful dog owner. Mine know that they can bark to their heart's content till dusk. If they bark more than twice after that, they are in for the night. As they love to be outside they are pretty much trained to be quiet unless a critter or an intruder gets in the yard.

The neighbor behind me has a Husky that I have never, in 6 years, heard make a peep. As the neighbor is a completed dickhead, I woudln't be surprised if he maimed his dog this way.

He is probably miserable because your shiathead dog barks from the time he gete home from work until 10pm.

They would probably bark at you too, zitface.


Dogs will bark at their own farking testicles. They need to be eradicated.
 
2012-11-14 11:53:42 AM  
I like true crime stuff and probably about 5 years ago I saw a case (on Court/True TV) where the family had a Weimaraner dog that they'd had this done to and it was just because, the dog did NOT have a history of problem barking.

Well, some criminal broke into their house during one night and took their young daughter and later killed her. The dog tried to alert the family, but could not bark and they ignored it.

Too bad for that little girl her parents were such dumb f*cks.

/If you would do this than you don't deserve a dog. That is all.
 
2012-11-14 11:54:03 AM  

shortymac: simplicimus: shortymac: RubberBabyBuggyBumpers: abhorrent1: Yeah, that's not a nice thing to do to the poor puppies. declawing cats is still okay though.

Indoor cats, sure. Cat doesn't get yelled at for destroying furniture, human doesn't have to yell at cat, furniture doesn't get destroyed, and cat doesn't need to hunt for food or protect itself.

Or you know you could train your cat to not scratch.

But that would take some time, thought, and responsibility but no one has that these days.

Train a cat not to scratch? They need to scratch to renew their claws, much like you (I assume) trim your fingernails.

Scratch only appropriate areas.


OK, that only requires a spray bottle of water.
 
2012-11-14 11:58:05 AM  
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
I threaten to cut his vocal cords sometimes. A Basset Hound bark in a house is crazy loud
 
2012-11-14 12:01:19 PM  

Researcher: Having a dog is like having an alarm system


Having a dog is better than having an alarm system, particularly if your dog has a nice, deep bark. (A yippity bark isn't going to do the trick quite so well.) Burglars tend to ignore house alarms, as they'll typically have at least around 30-45 minutes to get whatever they like depending on where you live and whether or not your neighbors respond. If you have an intimidating bark or two on the other side of the door, however, they'll think twice about whether or not they want to take a chance on getting bitten.
 
2012-11-14 12:02:17 PM  
I like cats enough and detest the thought of de-clawing them, but I do love dogs and this "de-vocalizing" sounds even worse to me. Yes, such people probably shouldn't have dogs, or cats.

A few people have brought up a real dichotomy here, though: why is it considered fine to spay or neuter animals? Well, we know why: for human convenience. With enough human supervision, we could prevent animals from reproducing without surgery.

The thing is, we value human time and effort over the comfort and feelings of lesser animals. No matter how beloved and noble a dog is, you must understand that is what we view such creatures as. They aren't humans; we don't see their existence as necessitating "humane" treatment. After all, we enslave them from the start, don't we? We (generally) have little problem slaughtering animals for food, etc; we could do without all these things, but we choose not to.

We humans follow a simple rule: our wants go before any pretty-sounding ideas of "rights" of animals. We discourage, and even outlaw cruel treatment of animals, assuming the cruel treatment is considered very easily avoidable. We can't eat chicken without being cruel to the chickens, so that's ignored.

I don't like the idea of de-clawing cats. I've never de-clawed mine, and never will. I've also known de-clawed cats that appear to have no issues whatsoever. I'd surely never remove the vocal cords of a dog of mine - after all, I do view the ability to bark as one of the central reasons we keep dogs. That said, there's this little shiatzu of a dog a couple doors down that barks at every goddamned thing that moves, sometimes for ten hours a day. You know what? I wouldn't complain if it was made to shut up, just like I didn't complain when it had its balls forcefully removed.

It's not something I would do, and I would think less of an owner for it; a proper owner would have a properly cared for dog. But you know what? Human comfort goes first.

/no, I don't think it should be illegal for a dog to bark in a neighborhood; I'm reasonable
 
2012-11-14 12:08:19 PM  

supayoda: Burglars tend to ignore house alarms, as they'll typically have at least around 30-45 minutes to get whatever they like depending on where you live and whether or not your neighbors respond. If you have an intimidating bark or two on the other side of the door, however, they'll think twice about whether or not they want to take a chance on getting bitten.


v016o.popscreen.com
 
2012-11-14 12:10:28 PM  

Mugato: abhorrent1: declawing cats

Declawing cats is a farked up practice.


I don't know. My mom's torti probably would have benefited from being declawed. She's nine years old and still gets her claws caught in things. She sounds like velcro when she dashes at full speed across the carpet, too. (When she was a kitten she'd get a claw caught mid-dash and actually flip herself.) She's a smart cat otherwise, but I doubt she'll ever develop any claw sense. As she's agoraphobic, and 100% indoor cat, she might actually do better without her front claws.

But she still has hers, and continues to be a velcro kitty. C'est la vie.

With cats and declawing, I figure it's a case-by-case basis. But seriously, there's no reason to "devocalize" a dog unless it has some sort of throat cancer.
 
2012-11-14 12:17:24 PM  

for good or for awesome: trappedspirit: It's called personification. It's a good thing to learn to recognize before it gets out of control.

You sound like my dog.


I'll just leave this: Link
 
2012-11-14 12:26:15 PM  

Onkel Buck: sign


We taught our dogs to respond to hand signals.
 
2012-11-14 12:29:36 PM  

ModernPrimitive01: [sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 842x626]
I threaten to cut his vocal cords sometimes. A Basset Hound bark in a house is crazy loud


Beagles can be as bad. CSB: My fiancee's father has two beagles. At one point we were staying in his house, I got up in the middle of the night to pee and one didn't recognize me. So that one starts baying, and then the other one starts. Holy hell, that's loud, 'specially when I'm half asleep and trying to get them to stop so they won't wake everyone else up.
 
2012-11-14 12:44:59 PM  
If you can't get your dog to stop barking, It doesn't respect you and you probably shouldn't be owning a dog, because you clearly cannot train or control it.
 
2012-11-14 12:59:02 PM  

fluffy2097: If you can't get your dog to stop barking, It doesn't respect you and you probably shouldn't be owning a dog, because you clearly cannot train or control it.


There's a fine line between training a dog and breaking it. Sure, by the book, my dogs should follow me outside instead of leading. But they're bird dogs, bred for countless generations to run ahead and flush out birds. Should I break them of this habit?
Of course my dogs have each other, and don't really bark that much. But they live in a completely different sensory realm than we do, so I often don't know what they're responding to.
 
2012-11-14 12:59:08 PM  

jakrabit: GoldSpider: jakrabit: We adopted a dachshund... 7 years old, and barks constantly... Annoying as hell. I would never take that from her. Some days, I've thought about it.

You must live in the townhouse a few units down from me.

The wife has been working with her since we got her... About a year and a half. She's much better. Except at 3 am when an owl farts.

If you hear "LOU, SHUT THE FARK UP", occasionally, then we're neighbors.

~
~
Oh I get it. *You* are the owl. That took me about 4 goes and a fair bit of frowning. And that's only to get your comment to a point where it made any sense as being made up of coherent sentences. Then I had to figure out the hidden meaning. I even checked your handle to see if you were Indubitably, no shiat.
 
2012-11-14 01:11:37 PM  

freetomato: The neighbor behind me has a Husky that I have never, in 6 years, heard make a peep. As the neighbor is a completed dickhead, I woudln't be surprised if he maimed his dog this way.


Huskies aren't much for barking. Neither are dogs like border collies and Australian shepherds. I've had three Aussies, none of them bark much at all. Even if a stranger comes to the door, all they do is bark a few times to alert you, then back off.

The worst dogs I've seen for barking are hound dogs (beagles and others) and Labs. Labs are so stupid, they will stand in a yard and bark mindlessly at nothing for hours. Oh, but they're great dogs!! Any dog that barks like that is not a "great dog", I don't care what kind of temperament it has. And hound dogs just love to bay. It's fun to listen to them out in the woods, but not so much when they live next door.

And yes, it is OK to neuter your dogs. They don't sit around and cry while cupping their genitals, like all you guys do because your mom had you circumcised when you were two days old. Because they don't think like us, see--the dog or cat doesn't sit around thinking about all that pussy he's missing because his owner mistreated him.

You people who are so proud of your dog's nuts are weird, anyway. Like the guy who has to take his un-neutered pit bull everywhere he goes to show what a bad ass he is.
 
2012-11-14 01:20:00 PM  

cryinoutloud: Huskies aren't much for barking. Neither are dogs like border collies and Australian shepherds. I've had three Aussies, none of them bark much at all. Even if a stranger comes to the door, all they do is bark a few times to alert you, then back off.


My Border Collie loves to bark, but usually as a response to something else barking - and when he gets started he has no intention on stopping.
 
2012-11-14 01:23:06 PM  

Harry Freakstorm: We were looking in to this. My neighbor is complaining about my dogs. They're just three doxies who learned to bark at everything. But I can't seem find a reputable vet who will cut out the vocal chords of my neighbor.

The one guy that I found wanted the patient's permission to perform the operations. I brought him in unconscious. Now you want me to wake him up. Chloroform doesn't grow on trees, Doc. The guy on Craigslist wasn't really a vet but agreed to make a house call. Too bad we were outside the range of his ankle bracelet.


My favs list, welcome to it.
 
2012-11-14 01:25:09 PM  
As regards the article, only subhumans who can't be bothered to train and/or take care of their dogs would do that to them, IMHO. Get a stuffie, that's just about all you are able for. I feel the same about declawing cats and bobbing the ears and tails of show dogs too. It's mutilation for the human's convenience, or to make money on the dog.

Having said that, I do think that spaying and neutering is a good idea. 1/10 for consistency... but I do note that spaying and neutering does extend the life of the animal, and any declawed cats I have seen are all batshiat crazy and hate people. I haven't seen any debarked dogs that I am aware of; I'm not really sure what I would say to the owners who had that done to the dog.

While I don't like dogs at all, and my neighborhood is full of irresponsible dog owners who leave their animals out in all weather without shelter and let them bark all day and night, I realize it's not the dog's fault.
 
2012-11-14 01:27:38 PM  

cryinoutloud: Labs are so stupid, they will stand in a yard and bark mindlessly at nothing for hours. Oh, but they're great dogs!! Any dog that barks like that is not a "great dog", I don't care what kind of temperament it has.


Labs, man. The dumb blonde of the dog world.
 
2012-11-14 01:31:48 PM  

KatjaMouse: cryinoutloud: Labs are so stupid, they will stand in a yard and bark mindlessly at nothing for hours. Oh, but they're great dogs!! Any dog that barks like that is not a "great dog", I don't care what kind of temperament it has.

Labs, man. The dumb blonde of the dog world.


I'll put Cocker Spaniels in competition for that title. Love sponges, but dumb as a box of rocks.
 
2012-11-14 01:59:29 PM  
I have 6 front-declawed cats. Three were done by me before I really knew anything about it - my vet just sort of offered it with the neutering, said it wasn't that big of a deal, and it seemed like a good idea. Three I rescued/adopted that way.

Not a one has a behavioural problem. All tear-ass around the house, not a limp or a sigh among them. They are sweet, mild-mannered dog-cats (they will mob you for pats if you come over and show the slightest interest in them). I wouldn't do it if I got another kitten (NO MORE CATS), but I do admit to actively seeking de-clawed cats at shelters. It does make life easier, although those claw caps are pretty cool too. I trim the back claws of all in residence because slidey hardwood floors mark up with cat claws pretty quickly in the kitty drag races if you don't trim. The part-mountain lion tortie gets claw caps because she will eat your face if you try to trim her up.
 
2012-11-14 02:02:01 PM  

Civchic: have 6 front-declawed cats. Three were done by me before I really knew anything about it - my vet just sort of offered it with the neutering, said it wasn't that big of a deal, and it seemed like a good idea. Three I rescued/adopted that way.


Oh, and they never, ever, ever, EVER go outside. Except the big Persian. He likes to be walked on a leash.
 
2012-11-14 02:27:24 PM  
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."
-Groucho Marx.
 
2012-11-14 02:34:10 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: crzybtch: But until you have lived next door to a serial barker, you cannot imagine how farking annoying it is!

I've lived right next door to people who kept their large dogs outdoors all the time, and those dogs barked constantly.

That is just as much a failure on the part of its owner as debarking the damn thing would have been.


Yeah, but at least if it was debarked the neighbor with the quiet indoor cat (me) wouldn't have to listen to it 24/7!

And I knew a debarked dog and he still thought he could bark and he did all the time but the difference was not everyone had to listen to it! He would stand at the window and smack his jaws together like a fiend, but the point is that he still got to live their instead of going to the pound!
 
2012-11-14 02:49:55 PM  
You see, this is why Obamacare is going to threaten all of us. I heard they are going to have "devocalizing" panels that are going to make decisions about taking the bark from your fluffy little fido. It will make burglarizing your house easier and is part of Lord and Master's new wealth distribution plan. That and taking all our guns so we can't protect ourselves from the raping and pillaging hoards.
/seriously.
//hey at least I didn't call him Fartbongo
 
2012-11-14 02:53:28 PM  

ChipNASA: You see, this is why Obamacare is going to threaten all of us. I heard they are going to have "devocalizing" panels that are going to make decisions about taking the bark from your fluffy little fido. It will make burglarizing your house easier and is part of Lord and Master's new wealth distribution plan. That and taking all our guns so we can't protect ourselves from the raping and pillaging hoards.
/seriously.
//hey at least I didn't call him Fartbongo


Heh. Dogs are property and legal to own. So are guns.
 
2012-11-14 03:10:30 PM  

simplicimus: ChipNASA: You see, this is why Obamacare is going to threaten all of us. I heard they are going to have "devocalizing" panels that are going to make decisions about taking the bark from your fluffy little fido. It will make burglarizing your house easier and is part of Lord and Master's new wealth distribution plan. That and taking all our guns so we can't protect ourselves from the raping and pillaging hoards.
/seriously.
//hey at least I didn't call him Fartbongo

Heh. Dogs are property and legal to own. So are guns.


/one......
//bring it.
-12/10
 
2012-11-14 03:14:21 PM  
One of our dogs had her vocal cords clipped by the previous owner. The scar tissue from this has left her with permanent breathing difficulties. Vets have to use special procedures to anesthetize her for dental treatments. And even though she has not been able to make a sound since she was a puppy, fifteen years later, she's still trying. She does have an expressive range of grunts and heavy breathing to affect some communication. And, of course, coming up and raising a paw always get her set up on a lap and pet until she falls asleep.

Cutting cords is not without risk. And it is especially dangerous in small breeds like our chihuahua.
 
2012-11-14 03:15:47 PM  

ChipNASA: simplicimus: ChipNASA: You see, this is why Obamacare is going to threaten all of us. I heard they are going to have "devocalizing" panels that are going to make decisions about taking the bark from your fluffy little fido. It will make burglarizing your house easier and is part of Lord and Master's new wealth distribution plan. That and taking all our guns so we can't protect ourselves from the raping and pillaging hoards.
/seriously.
//hey at least I didn't call him Fartbongo

Heh. Dogs are property and legal to own. So are guns.

/one......
//bring it.
-12/10


Ok, Obama has a dog. Never heard it bark, though. And he many people with guns around him and his family.
 
2012-11-14 03:27:27 PM  
Jesus Christ, the comments are a train wreck. 10 comments in and it turned into some BS about Obama.
 
2012-11-14 03:36:09 PM  

sodomizer: Most people buy a dog, put it in a cage, take it out once a day to walk it (if it's lucky, otherwise it gets let out in the yard) and hope the kids play with it.

The dog is bored, ignored, alone and generally feels valueless. Nicer dogs tend to withdraw and/or die young, but more attention-needy dogs tend to bark a lot until the neighbors poison them with antifreeze.

This is what I've seen in America's suburbs.


That kind of thing does happen, but the fact you think that is true for "most" suburban dogs says more about your cynicism than anything else. I'm a real estate appraiser and see all kinds of homes and pets. The majority of pets are well kept and loved, though I would say that's true by a slender margin. On average they are BEST taken care of in suburbia, worst in slums (barrios, ghettos, trailer parks), and somewhere in the middle for urban homes (high rises etc.)

Rural dogs, though in some cases free range and gloriously happy, also include some of the most abused and neglected.
 
2012-11-14 03:37:14 PM  
But circumcision is just farking fine, right?

/popcorn!
 
2012-11-14 03:39:28 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Mugato: abhorrent1: declawing cats

Declawing cats is a farked up practice.

This. It takes all of ten minutes to clip my cat's nails. And scratching posts are cheap.


If these procedures increase the number of people who are able/willing to house pets, rather than letting those pets sit in shelters, is it really harmful? Would a cat be "better off" being declawed and living in a normal home with a family, or keeping its claws and living in a cage at a shelter or with 100 other cats in the home of some obsessive cat-lady? The same question would apply to dogs & de-barking.

Owners are going to fall on spectrum, with some who are willing to go to any length for their pets. That's great. ...but I'd guess the vast majority of people aren't going to fall into that category -- they'll certainly provide care, but also have kids and careers to attend to and just want to minimize the amount of work that goes into the pet (and repairing the furniture).

/ own no pets
 
2012-11-14 03:40:46 PM  

nonvideas: But circumcision is just farking fine, right?


Wrong thread.
 
2012-11-14 03:41:38 PM  

jshine: nonvideas: But circumcision is just farking fine, right?

Wrong thread.


Not for long!
 
2012-11-14 04:02:53 PM  

nonvideas: But circumcision is just farking fine, right?

/popcorn!


I needed to circumcise my dog so he could have a bark-mitvah.
 
2012-11-14 04:10:53 PM  

crzybtch: had a cat that was 50% tabby and %50 percent minature tiger


I think I see your problem.
 
2012-11-14 04:38:16 PM  

nymersic: lolumadbro: beagle

Beagles generally fall among the smarter majority of dogs.

But dogs, of all breeds, are just like humans - some are brighter than others; some have difficulty learning; some have difficulty developing proper social behavior; some have difficulty taking orders; some love the sound of their own voice...
... some are just plain retarded.

Some are geniuses!


Distressed, borderline suicidal/caninecidal owner of an 18 month old beagle here. The dog is very smart...will dance in a circle on his hind legs on command, recognizes people on sight alone, i.e. looking through the window, as examples. The problem: zero, and I mean zero, impulse control. Whether it's barking, bolting the yard, stealing food, whatever. He knows he shouldn't and he knows he's going to be in trouble before he's even found out or told to stop. But he just can't help himself and after he gets scolded, he puts on the Snoopy face and he gets to live another day, because no one can be mad at Snoopy. And he knows it.
 
2012-11-14 04:55:44 PM  
Can we make it a requirement of dog ownership? I might finally be able to sleep all night. All dog owners must have hearing problems if they can sleep through the hours of barking their dogs do.
 
2012-11-14 05:53:19 PM  

HailRobonia: nonvideas: But circumcision is just farking fine, right?

/popcorn!

I needed to circumcise my dog so he could have a bark-mitvah.


Where did you find a willing mohel?
 
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