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(CBS DC)   Dog owners are "devocalizing" their dogs to curtail the pets from barking. Some people have a problem with this   (washington.cbslocal.com) divider line 268
    More: Obvious, American Veterinary Medical Association, pets  
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4998 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Nov 2012 at 8:31 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-14 09:24:41 AM  
A few years ago, we adopted a mini-pincher who was debarked (pound said it happened during neutering, who really knows). Little guy chirps like a bird when he gets excited.
 
2012-11-14 09:24:45 AM  

RubberBabyBuggyBumpers: abhorrent1: Yeah, that's not a nice thing to do to the poor puppies. declawing cats is still okay though.

Indoor cats, sure. Cat doesn't get yelled at for destroying furniture, human doesn't have to yell at cat, furniture doesn't get destroyed, and cat doesn't need to hunt for food or protect itself.


There's this thing called a squirt bottle. Apply water from squirt bottle to scratching cats. Problem solved without amputating anything.

And then they can still act as an indoor mouser when needed.
 
2012-11-14 09:25:03 AM  
I swear, dog "parents" are worse than "snowflake" parents.
 
2012-11-14 09:25:15 AM  

lolumadbro:
Long story short might be worth looking into, and no the shock is not that bad .. more of a uncomfortable buzz like a cow fence. Trust me I got hamerd and had to try it out.

my 64 cents


I imagine it feels a bit different to a 180-200lb human than it does to a 10-50lb dog.
 
2012-11-14 09:25:21 AM  
Kaymon
You need to get your sarcasm meter calibrated.

I need to borrow that line if you don't mind. That could seriously come in handy where I work.
 
2012-11-14 09:26:41 AM  

martid4: RatMaster999: Can we do this to children, too?

And wives, girlfriends.


Hell, my wife would just learn sign language, and then I'd have to deal with this non-stop fluttering of her hands. At least with the talking I don't have to actively pay attention to her. I just have to pretend to listen!
 
2012-11-14 09:29:20 AM  

Researcher:

Having a dog is like having an alarm system - my dog is basically marshmellow fluff, love, and fur. I'm not counting on it to kill any intruders - that's what I'm for. So it just boggles my mind that you'd remove that ability from one of natures greatest sentries.

This is beyond the pale for me.


I was just gonna say something similar to this. Outside of faithful company, I think one of the best reasons for getting a dog is for the alarm system feature, i.e. barking, whether in the home or on a dog trail.

There again, when an owner has a dog that barks incessantly because it's not disciplined/cared for/exercised enough, that feature becomes just as ineffective as if the owner were to remove the vocal chords. But I guess if the owner is the sort of selfish, callous human being who doesn't care about their pet's well being, and views them just as an accessory, then doing something as disgustingly awful as cutting out the vocal chords is par for the course.

What I find hard to stomach, too, is the fact that there are surgeons who are willingly doing this and who aren't saying, "Are you farking kidding me, you sick fark? Get out of my office." to these sick farks.
 
2012-11-14 09:30:32 AM  
gmoney101 Smartest
Funniest
2012-11-14 09:18:10 AM


MythDragon: Mugato: abhorrent1: declawing cats

Declawing cats is a farked up practice.

But de-balling animals is still cool, right?

I really fail to see the difference.

That's because you are a farking dunce!




He's right. it's no different. Chopping off body parts for your convenience.
 
2012-11-14 09:30:46 AM  

simplicimus: El Brujo: Declawing cats is also a totally farked up thing to do to a cat. Fark those people too.

My Mom is 95, and her skin is very thin and fragile, so she had her cat declawed. That is the instance I could approve of. My cats are not declawed.


That's still not the cat's fault.
 
2012-11-14 09:30:49 AM  

GORDON: I don't need an animal to give me a facsimile of love and affection, and I am a light sleeper with asshole neighbors who put their big dogs out overnight in the winter so I get to listen to the dog equivalent of, "I'm cold! I'm cold!" all night.

Silence them, one way or another.


I hate when people neglect their dogs asking to be let back in. Had that at an old house - guy would let his dog out at 5am, then leave it there until 8am, regardless of the fact that it barked continuously.

I never did this, but they do make little ultrasonic bark deterrents you can hang on your fence. When it detects a bark it emits an unpleasant sound the dogs can hear. They work better if there's carrot with the stick, though, so without the owner's cooperation, you'd have to commit to throwing treats over the fence when they're being extra quiet, too.
 
2012-11-14 09:31:30 AM  

gmoney101: MythDragon: Mugato: abhorrent1: declawing cats

Declawing cats is a farked up practice.

But de-balling animals is still cool, right?

I really fail to see the difference.

That's because you are a farking dunce!


agree completely.

Also, having your pet spayed or neutered will usually improve their life span by a few years, reduce the incidence of reproductive organ cancers especially in dogs; guard against illnesses spurred by an animal reproducing late in their lives and generally is good for the overall health of an animal. Cutting their vocal cords does nothing but force an animal to comply with the will of a useless 'owner', serving no purpose other than making them more of a stuffed toy, and not a companion.
 
2012-11-14 09:34:16 AM  

simplicimus: We tried on of those on the Cocker, a vibrating one not a shock collar.


after the third time we had to use the shock he learned the deal
we haven't bought batteries for it in 2 years
we just put it on at the dog park or when we go camping and he knows to calm the fark down and play well with others
 
2012-11-14 09:34:16 AM  

moothemagiccow: Here's a compromise: don't get a dog

 
2012-11-14 09:34:32 AM  

doubled99: gmoney101 Smartest
Funniest
2012-11-14 09:18:10 AM


MythDragon: Mugato: abhorrent1: declawing cats

Declawing cats is a farked up practice.

But de-balling animals is still cool, right?

I really fail to see the difference.

That's because you are a farking dunce!



He's right. it's no different. Chopping off body parts for your convenience.


Dogs are spayed/neutered because human ownership has caused their population to grow much larger than could be sustained naturally. As caregivers to both the animal and the local environment we have to balance the needs of the two. I wish things like vasectomies were more common/safer for dogs but too many vets still won't do them. Dogs that are neutered also live longer and are less likely to run away and get hit by cars.

De-clawing cats on the other hand is just because the owner finds it inconvenient.
 
2012-11-14 09:37:01 AM  

Lunaville: A couple of years ago we were annexed into an area where it is against the law for a dog to bark for more than ten minutes at a time regardless of the time of day. I thought that was sick.
I wonder how long it will be before the helpful folks that pushed that through point out that if debarking were required of all the dogs in the city, no one would ever have to hear a dog bark? Why is that the people who made us all completely miserable in high school always seem to end up running things one way or another?


What? This is a brilliant idea! No dog needs to bark longer than ten minutes.
 
2012-11-14 09:37:53 AM  

Kaymon: It's ok to hack their balls off, but this is bad? Where to we draw the line at what parts of an animal we can remove?


Not to mention docked ears and tails.
 
2012-11-14 09:37:54 AM  
You'd think the Basenji would be more popular.
 
2012-11-14 09:39:30 AM  

bunner: Dear, sh*t for brains pet owners.

And if this is how you view your pets, as inconveniences, for God's SAKE don't reproduce.


And don't try to reproduce with your pet!
 
2012-11-14 09:39:44 AM  
Uuuuuuuuh, I'd never do that to Bob Barker (aka the Prince of Barkness). The fact that his only major interest other than farting around, going for walks, playing, sleeping and eating is guarding our house is what makes him awesome and a contributing member of the household. That's his job, he's supposed to bark at things when they're in our front or backyard (it's an open concept condo and the backyard isn't completely fenced so I'm extra grateful for his efforts because if someone ever stole my green egg I'd probably die).

Sure, he's occasionally too diligent and will bark at something just going by but all I have to say, from any floor in the house, is "That's enough" and he stops and goes about his business. Why? Because he's trained. My boss wishes I'd show that kind of work ethic.

Christ, all the cat does is gripe about crap.
 
2012-11-14 09:40:01 AM  

Greek: There's a non- surgical method now of de- barking a dog. Works pretty well. It's called "train the farking animal properly, or don't get a dog, you dumb shiat!"

Same goes for declawing a cat. Even an indoor one- the declawing process actually involves amputating the first knuckle from each paw. Cats often develop behavioral problems as a result. Contrary to popular belief, cats can be trained. It takes a bit more effort than it does with a dog, but it's possible. Provide lots of natural- feeling scratching surfaces, such as sisal rope door hangers, LONG cardboard scratchers, and scratching posts covered either in sisal or natural bark. Put them near the places they like to scratch, and squirt them with water when they try to scratch inappropriately, and give them a treat when they scratch something they should. Also, keeping their claws trimmed if they're an indoor cat helps a lot, too.

But this stuff all takes a little work, and some people are too lazy. These people shouldn't have pets. Or children, for that matter.


And every cat I've ever known has responded to a little demo on the approved scratching surfaces. "Hey, try scratching this instead!" *scritch scritch* Bam, they're trying it for themselves. Combine that introduction with the squirt bottle, and maybe some catnip rubbed on your scratching surface, and you'll quickly solve your scratching problems.
 
2012-11-14 09:40:11 AM  

WhippingBoy: So it's OK to take a cow, fatten it up with unnatural drugs, lead it to a slaughterhouse, blow it's farking brains out, chop it up, and eat it, but remove the vocal cords from your dog and you're worse than Hitler?


And this is why I do not own pets. I'm an unapologetic meat eater, and I can't justify in my own mind killing some for food while treating others like almost-but-not-quite people, and yet also property. I grew up on a farm, and we owned dogs, but our style of pet ownership was pretty reminiscent of Old Yeller. As in, pets are nice companions, but there comes a time in a dog's life when you might have to put it down, and it's important to be a grown-up about it. I've changed in a lot of ways since moving away from home, going to college, working for a while, and then going to graduate school, but it's still very hard for me to respect people who don't seem to recognize that their unguarded emotional attachments to their pets, although completely understandable, are also foolish and misplaced. I've learned not to comment when one of my nutty "cityfolk" friends tries to raise $10K to pay for a surgery for her German Shepherd, but in my mind, I still think... it's time for you to own up to the fact that you've become way too emotionally invested in an animal, and that's causing you to make stupid decisions. It's time to let go.
 
2012-11-14 09:40:17 AM  

El Brujo: Declawing cats is also a totally farked up thing to do to a cat. Fark those people too.


I agree with you but I have a cat that is really asking for it. He is an indoor cat since we live in the city and he really needs to be an outdoor cat. I haven't been able to find a home for him where he can be outdoors. He is mean and wild. I'm not concerned about the furniture and walls (he climbs up the walls and can go about 5 ft across the ceiling before he lets go). It is his attacks on my daughter that are going to be his downfall. I have had plenty of cats in my life but nothing like this one. It is like living with a bobcat for a pet. It looks like my choices are to either have him declawed, or put him down. I don't want to do either, but something has to give.
 
2012-11-14 09:40:47 AM  

Carth: Dogs that are neutered also live longer and are less likely to run away and get hit by cars.


Dogs that don't bark are less likely to end up poisoned by the neighbors...
 
2012-11-14 09:42:37 AM  

Greek: There's a non- surgical method now of de- barking a dog. Works pretty well. It's called "train the farking animal properly, or don't get a dog, you dumb shiat!"

Same goes for declawing a cat. Even an indoor one- the declawing process actually involves amputating the first knuckle from each paw. Cats often develop behavioral problems as a result. Contrary to popular belief, cats can be trained. It takes a bit more effort than it does with a dog, but it's possible. Provide lots of natural- feeling scratching surfaces, such as sisal rope door hangers, LONG cardboard scratchers, and scratching posts covered either in sisal or natural bark. Put them near the places they like to scratch, and squirt them with water when they try to scratch inappropriately, and give them a treat when they scratch something they should. Also, keeping their claws trimmed if they're an indoor cat helps a lot, too.

But this stuff all takes a little work, and some people are too lazy. These people shouldn't have pets. Or children, for that matter.


People can say this kind of stuff all they want, but I don't care how much training some animals have, they are going to do certain things. I had a cat that was 50% tabby and %50 percent minature tiger and I spent hours/days/months trying to train her not to scratch furniture. I bought her every kind of scratching post imaginable and she never scratched when I was home. But when I was at work, she ruined every piece of furniture I owned! She even ruined the doors and the cupboards! People suggested to put nail caps on her. I tried, she chewed them all off the first day!

I have since had 3 rescued cats that were declawed by their former owners and I love that I don't have to worry about everything I owned getting shredded! And they still fake clawed everything to their hearts content. They all lived long, happy lives. And the crazy tabby I have now would have shredded everything I owned if she had not been declawed!

And in the apartment that I live in now, there is a very well mannered, well behaved West Highland White Terrier. He is just the perfect little dog. But when his owner is not home, he barks at everything! Including leaves that blow across the lawn! And once he starts barking, he does not stop for 15 to 20 minutes. So every squirrel, every person walking by, every person going to their apartment, every leaf that moves causes 15 minutes of furious barking.

Would I feel sorry for the dog if they nicked his vocal chords, sure. But who do I really feel sorry for, the neighbors to the right, to the left, above and below! I can hear him and I live two buildings away!
 
2012-11-14 09:42:57 AM  

El Brujo: simplicimus: El Brujo: Declawing cats is also a totally farked up thing to do to a cat. Fark those people too.

My Mom is 95, and her skin is very thin and fragile, so she had her cat declawed. That is the instance I could approve of. My cats are not declawed.

That's still not the cat's fault.


No, not the cat's fault, but a necessary preventive action to protect my mother while still allowing her the companionship of a cat. At 95, it takes her a week or more to heal from a cat scratch.
My cats get some outside time everyday, so they can scratch to their heart's content.
 
2012-11-14 09:45:53 AM  

MythDragon: Mugato: abhorrent1: declawing cats

Declawing cats is a farked up practice.

But de-balling animals is still cool, right?

I really fail to see the difference.


You would if you had a male cat marking everything you own with the most foul smelling stuff imaginable!
 
2012-11-14 09:46:41 AM  

Gramma: El Brujo: Declawing cats is also a totally farked up thing to do to a cat. Fark those people too.

I agree with you but I have a cat that is really asking for it. He is an indoor cat since we live in the city and he really needs to be an outdoor cat. I haven't been able to find a home for him where he can be outdoors. He is mean and wild. I'm not concerned about the furniture and walls (he climbs up the walls and can go about 5 ft across the ceiling before he lets go). It is his attacks on my daughter that are going to be his downfall. I have had plenty of cats in my life but nothing like this one. It is like living with a bobcat for a pet. It looks like my choices are to either have him declawed, or put him down. I don't want to do either, but something has to give.


Why spend the money on an asshole cat? I'd get rid of him, we're it me. Sounds like its a bad situation all around. Take him to a shelter or better yet see if you know someone with a farm.
 
2012-11-14 09:46:48 AM  

Carth: lolumadbro:
Long story short might be worth looking into, and no the shock is not that bad .. more of a uncomfortable buzz like a cow fence. Trust me I got hamerd and had to try it out.

my 64 cents

I imagine it feels a bit different to a 180-200lb human than it does to a 10-50lb dog.


probably, I cranked it up all the way where he has it on I think 1.5/5(i think) and also remember dogs have this thing called "fur" witch is rather good form insulation from such a device. Like i said he still barks here and there every 15-20 mins but he no longer constantly barks for 5m straight routinely. I sort of find it hard to believe if it nearly killed the dog he would keep on barking every 20 min.
 
2012-11-14 09:48:30 AM  
Anyone who debarks a dog should have the same done to them.

Declawing cats...ok in a few situations, but normally, hell no.

If you can't handle an animal without mutilating it, then don't get the damned animal.
 
2012-11-14 09:50:12 AM  

simplicimus: El Brujo: simplicimus: El Brujo: Declawing cats is also a totally farked up thing to do to a cat. Fark those people too.

My Mom is 95, and her skin is very thin and fragile, so she had her cat declawed. That is the instance I could approve of. My cats are not declawed.

That's still not the cat's fault.

No, not the cat's fault, but a necessary preventive action to protect my mother while still allowing her the companionship of a cat. At 95, it takes her a week or more to heal from a cat scratch.
My cats get some outside time everyday, so they can scratch to their heart's content.


I hope your mom's cat stays indoors. I'm glad she's able to have a companion, though. I'd want the same for any relative of mine reaching that age.
 
2012-11-14 09:50:25 AM  

Meethos: Neighbor across the street had a terrier that would bark for hours if there was a few minutes of silence interrupted by noise, like a car driving by at 10pm.

About 4 months ago, she backed over it with her car. I almost found religion that day, such fortune.


I dunno how many people read that as just another CSB, but that is freaken unbelievable. And bonus lulz for the spectacular way Rover bit it. You would have been pinching yourself for days.

Do you have magical powers like that Firestarter chick?
 
2012-11-14 09:50:38 AM  

Shaggy_C: Carth: Dogs that are neutered also live longer and are less likely to run away and get hit by cars.

Dogs that don't bark are less likely to end up poisoned by the neighbors...


Dogs are poisoned by criminals barking or pooping on your lawn are just the justifications they use. Sane people call 311 and let the owner deal with a $100-300 fine every time it is reported.
 
2012-11-14 09:50:46 AM  

mcwehrle: abhorrent1: Yeah, that's not a nice thing to do to the poor puppies. declawing cats is still okay though.

No, no it's not.


I'm generally against declawing cats, but look, sometimes there are two options: Declaw a cat, or get rid of a cat. I'd rather see Mr. Wiggles getting a home rather than keeping his claws.
 
2012-11-14 09:51:22 AM  
Shaggy_C Smartest
Funniest
2012-11-14 09:40:47 AM


Carth: Dogs that are neutered also live longer and are less likely to run away and get hit by cars.




That's why I had my dog's legs removed. It's much safer for him, really. Plus he's so easy to cuddle with now!
 
2012-11-14 09:51:25 AM  
All little farking yappy rodent-sized dogs should either be devocalized, and else stepped on and squished like a bug.
 
2012-11-14 09:51:48 AM  

TheGreatGazoo: As someone who has to listen to a dog howl from the other side of the neighborhood, I don't have too much of a problem with this.


move
 
2012-11-14 09:53:04 AM  

doubled99:
That's why I had my dog's legs removed. It's much safer for him, really. Plus he's so easy to cuddle with now!


www.hrwiki.org
 
2012-11-14 09:53:17 AM  

El Brujo: simplicimus: El Brujo: simplicimus: El Brujo: Declawing cats is also a totally farked up thing to do to a cat. Fark those people too.

My Mom is 95, and her skin is very thin and fragile, so she had her cat declawed. That is the instance I could approve of. My cats are not declawed.

That's still not the cat's fault.

No, not the cat's fault, but a necessary preventive action to protect my mother while still allowing her the companionship of a cat. At 95, it takes her a week or more to heal from a cat scratch.
My cats get some outside time everyday, so they can scratch to their heart's content.

I hope your mom's cat stays indoors. I'm glad she's able to have a companion, though. I'd want the same for any relative of mine reaching that age.


No, my mom's cat doesn't want to go outside, even given the chance.
 
2012-11-14 09:55:29 AM  
SevenizGud: All little farking yappy rodent-sized dogs should either be devocalized, and else stepped on and squished like a bug.

If your dog will fit in a microwave it belongs in one
 
2012-11-14 09:55:44 AM  
While I have no problem with declawing house cats that never ever go outside, people who cut the vocal cords out of dogs should be covered in bacon grease and thrown into a pen of angry pit bulls.

/hates cats anyways
 
2012-11-14 09:57:34 AM  
I agree that the "Barkectomy" surgery might be cruel, unusual and barbarous.

To bad there isn't some simple chemical compound, maybe some kind of powdered substance that could either be:
1) sprinkled on their food, or
2) poured down their throats,
that would effectively kind of "burn" the vocal cords of the offending yapper.

Any ideas?

lh4.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-11-14 09:57:49 AM  
We got a notice a few weeks ago that our dog barks incessantly. Future Mr. Mouse and I actually got into a fight over it because he was convinced it only happens at night but I had to tell him there were days when I'd come home in the middle of the day and could hear her all the way from the parking lot.

So after the dust settled and we agreed that barking was, indeed, an issue that needed addressing regardless we worked on it. We have to lock her in our bedroom at night so she doesn't bark at late night walkers or people running up and down the stairs outside. Anytime she runs to the door or window barking the closest human leaps up and stands between her and the barrier and begin to distract her and lead her away from said barrier. And we started playing with her more at night and on weekends. 2 hours at the dog park on a Saturday = 4-5 hours of silent bliss.

Since receiving the notice she's become much more bearable and quiet. If a maintenance guy needs to come into our place, however, no guarantees about the barking. Actually maintenance refuses to do work orders for us unless she's out of the apartment or one of us is home. Mini Schnauzers are effing loud, man.
 
2012-11-14 09:59:32 AM  

Oldiron_79: SevenizGud: All little farking yappy rodent-sized dogs should either be devocalized, and else stepped on and squished like a bug.

If your dog will fit in a microwave it belongs in one


Gotta say it depends on the dog. We rescued a minpin/chihuahua mix a few months ago, once she settled in she's a very calm, quiet, cuddly pup and gets along with our other critters. She's also the only one of our dogs that's immediately ok with guests. In the case of the ones that never shut up though, it's hard to argue...
 
2012-11-14 10:00:27 AM  

gmoney101: MythDragon: Mugato: abhorrent1: declawing cats

Declawing cats is a farked up practice.

But de-balling animals is still cool, right?

I really fail to see the difference.

That's because you are farking dunce!

You spelled Dunst wrong.
How did you know I was farking Kirsten? We agreed not to tell anyone. What with she being all famous and what not, and me just being some regular slob, we thought it best I didn't have to deal with the paparazi.
 
2012-11-14 10:00:43 AM  

doubled99: gmoney101 Smartest
Funniest
2012-11-14 09:18:10 AM


MythDragon: Mugato: abhorrent1: declawing cats

Declawing cats is a farked up practice.

But de-balling animals is still cool, right?

I really fail to see the difference.

That's because you are a farking dunce!



He's right. it's no different. Chopping off body parts for your convenience.


Spaying or neutering is not for convenience, it's to cut down on rampant over population among dogs and cats. Declawing a cat is mutilating an animal because of one's concern for their furniture. My dad's wife has a declawed cat. It just lays there like a stuffed animal with no will to live. It's a horrible thing to do to an animal.
 
2012-11-14 10:00:56 AM  

Rostin: Lunaville: A couple of years ago we were annexed into an area where it is against the law for a dog to bark for more than ten minutes at a time regardless of the time of day. I thought that was sick.

It sucks that the city moved in around you so to speak instead of you voluntarily moving into it, but I think that sounds like a wonderful policy. All dogs will occasionally bark, but 10 minutes is a long time, especially if it routinely occurs. I also think that bad pet owners can be like bad parents in that they find ways of rationalizing or ignoring the annoying misbehavior of their "children."


My dogs almost never bark, but I used to live next door to a pair of bassets that loved to bark. It was part of how they played outside. They were having a grand time and did me no harm. I can't imagine filing a complaint against my neighbor about that.
 
2012-11-14 10:02:28 AM  

HeartBurnKid: dittybopper: Mugato: abhorrent1: declawing cats

Declawing cats is a farked up practice.

Meh.

I have had cats that were declawed, and I've had cats that weren't. Currently, I have both: A 9 year old female that isn't declawed, a 1 year old female that is, and a male kitten that isn't and won't be*. For an inside cat, I don't have a problem with it so long as it's done when they are young. I haven't noticed *ANY* significant difference in behavior either way.

*Signed a contract for that one saying we wouldn't declaw, and my word is my bond.

I have a declawed cat (not by me, by his previous owner), and I've noticed some odd behaviors on his part. He treads very carefully on his front paws, for example, and licks them often. It makes me think they always hurt.

Just because you don't notice these signs, doesn't mean they aren't there. Cats are very, very good at hiding pain.


I watch my cats closely. The distaffbopper gets Persians, so they get *LOTS* of attention. None of them have displayed that behavior, declawed or not.

I suspect that when done badly, or done to a cat that is older, that's true. But I have yet to have seen signs of it in any of the cats we had declawed over the years. Of course, we always had it done by a good vet, and when they were young kittens.

Honestly, I don't care either way. I'm not for or against declawing, and if I take a cat that the breeder says "no declaw", I'm fine with that. I just think that the arguments against it are overblown.

/Would *NEVER* declaw an "outside" cat.
//Would never have an outside cat, either.
 
2012-11-14 10:03:17 AM  

doubled99: Shaggy_C Smartest
Funniest
2012-11-14 09:40:47 AM


Carth: Dogs that are neutered also live longer and are less likely to run away and get hit by cars.



That's why I had my dog's legs removed. It's much safer for him, really. Plus he's so easy to cuddle with now!


If having limbs removed actually resulted in a longer lifespan, and vets recommend it I bet it would catch on.
 
2012-11-14 10:04:28 AM  
but then how would u know what's on top of the house?

ROOF!
 
2012-11-14 10:07:56 AM  

Mugato: abhorrent1: declawing cats

Declawing cats is a farked up practice.


It needs to be done.
 
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  4. Click here to submit a link.

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