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(White House)   In this day of White House petitions, college students petitioning Obama to refund 100% their tuition in trade for their diplomas   (petitions.whitehouse.gov) divider line 113
    More: Fail, White House, obama, diplomas, tuition, petitions  
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9496 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Nov 2012 at 5:20 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-11-13 04:20:24 PM
12 votes:
I'd go a step further. Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be. You have no idea how many people this would help.

Oh, and I went to college WITHOUT any loans, so I am more than entitled to this opinion. Let 'em BK7 them, it's not without its consequences. Some people are absolutely CRIPPLED by this. Yes, there is the personal responsibility angle, but how many 18 year old kids are really capable of making a decision that can literally haunt them for the rest of their lives? Give them a break, a way out. The whole system is crap.
2012-11-13 05:29:05 PM
5 votes:
I owed a lot in student loans, too. Know what I did? Made payments until they were gone.
2012-11-13 04:23:29 PM
5 votes:
I'm going to start a petition to end these stupid-ass petitions.
2012-11-13 06:09:47 PM
4 votes:
afterthekidsleave.files.wordpress.com
2012-11-13 05:45:57 PM
4 votes:
some of us chose majors that weren't shiat tier and spent our weekends doing work instead of riding the frat boy cock carousel are now making good money in a great job and own a house and contribute to society while you wonder why your education in post feminist transgender studies is worth less than your ruined vagina.
2012-11-13 05:42:43 PM
4 votes:

netweavr: bulldg4life: I've got to believe they should've thought about how to pay for all that before spending the 4+ years in school.

Granted, I am not using my degree at all and there is probably no future I can see where I will actually be working on embedded microcontrollers....but the school listed on the degree is enough to trick people in to thinking I can be a good employee.

Depends on if the tuition doubled during those 4-years. Here in California, students are finding out mid-way through that their loans no longer cover everything. This leaves them with the choice of dropping out or taking on more debt then they can handle. Granted dropping out does not discharge the debt they've already accumulated.


Well I guess it's a good thing California offers in state tuition for illegal aliens as long as you can prove you went to high school here illegally for at least 2 years. Good thing those leeches get a break.
2012-11-13 05:36:52 PM
4 votes:
So I heard something a little while ago that I thought would be interesting to try. I was listening to Minnesota Public Radio and they were talking to three foreign reporters to get an outsiders perspective of the election. One of them was from Australia. When the topic of university debt came up, he talked about how they handled it. I believe that, if you go to a public university in Australia there is no tuition. However, after you graduate and your income reaches a certain level the cost is added to your income tax bill. I think it was something like an added two or three percent added per year. While I obviously don't have the specifics, it would be interesting to see if that could work here.
2012-11-13 04:27:55 PM
4 votes:

nekom: I'd go a step further. Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be. You have no idea how many people this would help.

Oh, and I went to college WITHOUT any loans, so I am more than entitled to this opinion. Let 'em BK7 them, it's not without its consequences. Some people are absolutely CRIPPLED by this. Yes, there is the personal responsibility angle, but how many 18 year old kids are really capable of making a decision that can literally haunt them for the rest of their lives? Give them a break, a way out. The whole system is crap.


Meh said it better than I did. I work in bankruptcy. The two things I see as the primary cause are medical bills and home mortgages, and in the vast majority of bk petitions I review I see student loans, often above six digits. What an act of collusion to make them immune from discharge. They should have made it more like the "910" clause in Chapter 13 whereby you can't simply discharge them immediately after school, but to make them entirely non-dischargable absent ridiculously difficult to satisfy requirements?
2012-11-13 04:17:03 PM
4 votes:
Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee, to hell with personal responsibility.
2012-11-13 04:10:18 PM
4 votes:
If it took you 4 years to figure out that your degree in underwater basket weaving (with a minor in TV appreciation) wasn't going to fast-track you into a six-figure-salary position at a Fortune 500 company then you do not deserve a refund.
2012-11-13 06:32:47 PM
3 votes:

Fell In Love With a Chair: Primum: Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.

Have you looked into IBR? aka Income-Based Repayment: http://www.ibrinfo.org/

Or are your lender(s) not public? I transferred my Stafford loans to DirectLoan (Federal) and then started the IBR plan. This is relatively new stuff (thanks Obama!). If you do IBR and make all payments, which can be very low or even zero if you don't work or have a crap job, they will forgive the remaining after 20 (25?) years of payments. If you get a job with a nonprofit, govt, or school, you can also get Public Service Loan Forgiveness, where it's 10 years.

/not intended as professional advice

Any advice is welcome, I literally have people threatening to abduct me over this and have nothing left to sell. I have private loans from Sallie Mae, and paid off my first year with some kind of grant because I managed to maintain a 4.0. I wish I hadn't let my parents handle it. I wish I'd know that I was farking up the rest of my life to the point of no escape. I can't even kill myself to get out of this debt, it'd just go back on my parents.

Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.


Uh, is that you in your profile pic? Cut your hair, take out the facial piercings, and cover the tats when you go on a job interview. I don't care what you're applying for or how much you want to stick it to "the man", when you go for an interview you need to look like White Bread America.

Update your resume. What have you been doing since you got out of school? Got any professional references? Your parents, friends and buds from college won't cut it anymore. You need somebody who works in the field, and ideally someone with more than 10 years on the job. Got letters of reference? If not, get some pronto. Make sure you put in any relevant volunteer work--it's better than having to explain three years of sitting on your ass.

Call Sallie Mae, and don't talk to anyone who isn't an actual American person who works in the US. Tell them what's going on. Have you used up your unemployment deferments? Ask about making interest-only payments if you can't get full deferments. Ask about income-based payments. Tell them you're not working and tell them you'll pay what you can. Don't let them scare you: Remember, you can't go to prison for non-payment and they can't threaten you with anything. Record your conversations. If they start harassing you, tell them to stop. If they don't, send them a "cease and desist" letter. Even Sallie Mae has to obey such a letter, as long as it contains the words "cease and desist". Sometimes just threatening to do so will work--it did for me.

Above all, stay in contact with them. Don't just blow off the letters and phone calls. Get the name of your account handler, and talk to THAT PERSON, no one else. Don't let them put you through to various call centers and offices. Deal with one person, not sixteen. Keep all your paperwork in order, or if you do it all online, print everything and keep it filed.

The worst that can happen is that they take you to court, get a judgment against you and put liens on any future property you own; this will f*ck your credit rating for the rest of your life, but will otherwise not impact your life. It is not illegal to be unable to pay a judgment (although it is illegal to REFUSE to pay one if you are able to do so). And it IS illegal to harass you if you have indicated you cannot pay and have made honest and reasonable efforts to communicate with your creditors. So don't give up.
2012-11-13 06:08:50 PM
3 votes:

Mr_Juche: So I heard something a little while ago that I thought would be interesting to try. I was listening to Minnesota Public Radio and they were talking to three foreign reporters to get an outsiders perspective of the election. One of them was from Australia. When the topic of university debt came up, he talked about how they handled it. I believe that, if you go to a public university in Australia there is no tuition. However, after you graduate and your income reaches a certain level the cost is added to your income tax bill. I think it was something like an added two or three percent added per year. While I obviously don't have the specifics, it would be interesting to see if that could work here.


Hearing what you wrote here, I thought it would be interesting if what *we* did instead of tuition was that whatever University you went to got 1% of your salary for the next 40 years, but only if it was over a certain amount. -Say 20% above the average salary for the nation.

$100,000 a year job means only $1,000... Over 40 years, that's $40,000.

Obviously the numbers would have to be made out of something rather than thin air, but this system might encourage Universities to be more interested in what their grads were doing once they left school.
2012-11-13 05:49:33 PM
3 votes:
As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.

Seems like plenty of people in this thread are ready to pass a snap judgement that anyone crushed by a $44k debt clean out of college is just a lazy asshole. You sound like my parents, completely out of touch with reality. Just go down to the Wal-mart and get a job with those groceries. Saying you're "over-qualified" is narcissistic bullshiat, they TOOOTALLY hire people with four year degrees to stock shelves. Get over yourself, kid. You're not too good to make fries.

Even with a bachelor's degree, 10+ years of experience in my field (IT/Networking), clean drug/background/dmv screens, a willingness to work for just barely above minimum wage, and I'm STILL having a hard time finding work. Meanwhile Sallie Mae wants $500 a month. My income is next to nothing, I do art commissions for $10-20 bucks a pop. I'll do literally anything legal for money, $500/mo is more than my rent by a fair share. I live with my ex-girlfriend. She pays my rent still. I don't know why.

I've never been on welfare, foodstamps, and apart from two months on unemployment years ago, I've paid tens of thousands of dollars into the system and asked for less than a grand in return over the 12 years I've been employed.

fark you people.

I'm 28 years old and at this rate I will never own a house or a new car. I cannot get out from under this debt. I signed my tuition papers at 17, not understanding what would happen, or how this impacted my future. I was a child and we were told IF YOU DO NOT GO TO COLLEGE, YOU WON'T GET WORK. Now graduates are told "Without experience, you will not get hired". How do you get experience in your field without having a job in the first place? I am one of the lucky ones, I have the experience, but get passed over for being a young woman, and only having my A+ certification, because I can't afford to get more.

Seriously, fark you all. You got yours, no one else needs help. We're all just lazy people with useless farking degrees and didn't get a rug pulled out from under us. My parents co-signed this ridiculous mess, and my inability to pay ruins THEIR credit. My parents are threatening to abduct me from my family to try and make me pay my past due amount of $800 they paid without asking me. I was given a week to pay up or "they're coming to get me, one way or another". Sallie mae turned my (admittedly douchey) parents into extortionists.

I will probably have to get a restraining order.

Today I had a $200 medical expense. Rather, I paid $50 and was told it would be $150 to get the medicine I need for my eyes (Giant Papillary Conjunctivitis). I had to pass and hope it goes away. I have $76 to last me until god knows when, and Sallie Mae wants another $500 in 17 days. I can't even start a farking kickstarter to beg for help. Whatever, I didn't even like having corneas.

But don't help these farking losers. They don't deserve it. Teat-suckers, all of them, all for wanting just to farking live.

You got yours, fark all those idiot adult children, crippled by debt.

/Here, let me help
//CSB, shut up you whiny moron
///I am shaking in rage while filling out more job apps
2012-11-13 05:29:42 PM
3 votes:
Because of the inability of recent college graduates to find gainful employment in order to repay their college debt, and since this college debt cannot be eliminated in bankruptcy, and most of the recent additions to the job market have been in service related industries, the Obama administration should take up the cause of reducing college debt and hold those accountable responsible.

And who, pray tell, is accountable for YOUR debt?
2012-11-13 04:40:43 PM
3 votes:

nekom: Alternate idea: Allow it to be discharged in a 13. Reasonable payments based on the particular situation for, what 5 years for a 13? I agree they shouldn't be able to discharge it right after receiving their education, it shouldn't be allowed to be done in bad faith. But for some people, it is absolutely the best option not currently available to them.


I know the argument is essentially "The debtor has received a [tangible] service and/or product to which the creditor has no recompense" but then you know what? Maybe don't make your farking school so expensive.

And of course, if anyone wants to know the real reason why tuition rates have skyrocketed, look no further than the fact that you can not ever, ever escape them, even through bankruptcy, and in some cases death.
2012-11-13 04:37:18 PM
3 votes:

Elandriel: They should have made it more like the "910" clause in Chapter 13 whereby you can't simply discharge them immediately after school, but to make them entirely non-dischargable absent ridiculously difficult to satisfy requirements?


Alternate idea: Allow it to be discharged in a 13. Reasonable payments based on the particular situation for, what 5 years for a 13? I agree they shouldn't be able to discharge it right after receiving their education, it shouldn't be allowed to be done in bad faith. But for some people, it is absolutely the best option not currently available to them.
2012-11-13 04:23:15 PM
3 votes:
Well, with the first two posters' idiocy out of the way, while this is a bit far-fetched it once again brings to light the point that many employers won't hire without some fancy sheet of paper that asserts the holder somehow knows how to do the job for which they are applying, and the only way to get that piece of paper is to place yourself in the amount of debt similar to a goddamn home mortgage.

Also while the market is certainly saturated, I doubt an MBA is ewquivalent to a degree in UWBW. And, as far as personal responsibility goes, when a college states "You have like a 68% higher chance of getting your dream job at a 42% higher salary!" and then you graduate and the market says "It's called the honey pot son, she played you good", well maybe those farkers would love to make those bill payments, but they can't afford to.
2012-11-13 07:57:54 PM
2 votes:
Hi, Fell In Love With a Chair

Don't let the guys who mistake this is Fark for "I can be a cruel as I want" get you down

Maybe you ought to tell your parents the next time they call -- lay off or I WILL stick you with the bill
(after taping some of their crap and getting a restraining order.)

Here are some recent salary increases from Network World

That level of an increase usually means they need many more people

When you apply don't forget non-profits and public service
larger Libraries are usually happy to have an IT person on staff


If you have any experience with security or BYOD emphasize that, those positions are gold.

pure certification usually means dick but coursework in theory and 10 years of experience will help a great deal.

1. Mobile applications developer
2012 salary range: $85,000-$122,500
2013 salary range: $92,750-$133,500
Net: 9% increase

2. Wireless network engineer
2012 salary range: $79,250-$108,500
2013 salary range: $85,500-$117,000
Net: 7.9% increase

3. Network engineer
2012 salary range: $75,000-$107,750
2013 salary range: $80,750-$116,250
Net: 7.8% increase

4. Data modeler
2012 salary range: $85,500-$117,750
2013 salary range: $92,000-$126,750
Net: 7.6% increase

5. Portal administrator
2012 salary range: $80,500-$106,500
2013 salary range: $86,500-$114,500
Net: 7.5% increase

6. Data warehouse manager
2012 salary range: $101,250-$135,750
2013 salary range: $108,750-$145,750
Net: 7.4% increase

7. Business intelligence analyst

2012 salary range: $87,750-$123,500
2013 salary range: $94,250-$132,500
Net: 7.3% increase

8. Senior web developer
2012 salary range: $85,750-$118,500
2013 salary range: $92,000-$127,250
Net: 7.3% increase

9. Web developer
2012 salary range: $61,250-$99,250
2013 salary range: $65,750-$106,500
Net: 7.3% increase

10. Network architect
2012 salary range: $95,500-$137,000
2013 salary range: $102,250-$146,500
Net: 7% increase

11. Network manager
2012 salary range: $82,750-$114,500
2013 salary range: $88,500-$122,500
Net: 7% increase

12. Data architect
2012 salary range: $97,500-$134,250
2013 salary range: $104,250-$143,500
Net: 6.9% increase

13. Data security analyst
2012 salary range: $89,000-$121,500
2013 salary range: $95,000-$129,750
Net: 6.8% increase

14. Software engineer
2012 salary range: $78,250-$119,500
2013 salary range: $83,500-$127,750
Net: 6.8% increase

15. Network administrator
2012 salary range: $58,750-$87,250
2013 salary range: $62,750-$93,250
Net: 6.8% increase

best of luck
2012-11-13 07:43:56 PM
2 votes:
I gotta step out for a bit.

I love you all so much, and thank you for the support. I needed that. I needed that badly. It's good to remember we're NOT alone, and we know that we try hard no matter what they say. Thank you all for understanding and giving stellar advice, sharing stories, and just listening, because sometimes that's what people need.

Hopefully I can get back to a computer before the thread is up! If not- thank you, thank you, and again, thank you.
2012-11-13 06:03:33 PM
2 votes:

jgi: Serious question: if you don't pay back your student loans, the government can garnish your wages. What happens if you're self-employed, freelance, own your own business?


Serious answer: They can put a lien on any future property you may own, your business profits, etc. So that if in the future you sell your business, for instance, they have a right to whatever your share would have been before you get anything. Or if you were buying a house and someday hoped to sell it, there's going to be a judgment lien on it before the bank gets any. Stuff like that.
2012-11-13 06:03:33 PM
2 votes:
No symping farkathy here.

I graduated into the teeth of Nixon's recession with $100 in my pocket, no debts and a 5--year--old car.

There were no jobs for educated people so I had to work for two years as a laborer before I could stack up enough money to leave that dead--end town.

Suck it up crybabies, you make me flucking sick.
2012-11-13 05:59:37 PM
2 votes:

nekom: I'd go a step further. Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be. You have no idea how many people this would help.

Oh, and I went to college WITHOUT any loans, so I am more than entitled to this opinion. Let 'em BK7 them, it's not without its consequences. Some people are absolutely CRIPPLED by this. Yes, there is the personal responsibility angle, but how many 18 year old kids are really capable of making a decision that can literally haunt them for the rest of their lives? Give them a break, a way out. The whole system is crap.


Actually I think a better idea would be to:

1) Limit the amount of interest that can be capitalized on a loan. Often it's not the loan amount that's stupid...it's the killer interest which is constantly being compounded. Explain to me exactly how it makes any sense to pay back $100,000 over time, for an initial $60,000 loan? You're better off just burning the goddamn money.

2) Specify a maximum payment per month for ALL loans, not to exceed 2.5% of your total yearly gross salary (so if you make $42,000/yr before taxes, the maximum amount in loans you'll pay back per month is $1050...seems reasonable). I've come to find that it's not the amount of the loan that sucks...it's how insane the student loan payments are on a graduated repayment plan. Ever tried talking to a student loan servicing company about trying to lower your payment? You get asked less questions before going under the knife.

3) Allow a PORTION of student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy proceedings. Nobody should EVER be let off the hook entirely for a contract to which they agreed upon repayment at a later date.

4) We need to get off this notion that EVERYBODY has to go to college. No, not everybody HAS to go to college. College in the grand scheme of things isn't important unless you plan on pursuing a seriously advanced career like medicine, law, education, or engineering. Otherwise, you're WASTING YOUR MONEY.

Just my two cents...
2012-11-13 05:55:54 PM
2 votes:

Fell In Love With a Chair: I will probably have to get a restraining order.


Sallie Mae?
Here's what you do:
1) Income sensitive repayment play
Got no money to spare?
2) Hardship deferral.
2012-11-13 05:47:24 PM
2 votes:
This would sure as shiat help me out and I'm not one of these "snowflakes" I hear so much who took out loans to pay for everything and not work while in college. I worked full time (I was a service technician for a large window and door company theyy let me work 3 12 hour days on monday, wednesday, and friday plus any weekend appointments I could make it to while going to class from 8-6 on tuesday and thursday) while going to school full time and I still had to take out loans. I was able to pay for about 2 years my self but I still have about 13k in debt. I want to choke out every mother farker that says, "Well maybe they should have tried to pay for school themselves". I would have had to give literally like 60% of my income for just tuition. At a STATE SCHOOL. I graduated in 08, I can't even imagine how much more it must cost to go now and it has only been 4 years. I personally think we should make higher education free to all who want it and are able to pass the aptitude tests required to get in to college, but I think that's a bigger pipe dream than a discharge of debt.
2012-11-13 05:44:11 PM
2 votes:
Can I sign AGAINST this petition?
2012-11-13 05:34:07 PM
2 votes:
When is the Student Loan Bubble (SLB) going to pop?

Going $200,000 in debt to get a BA degree in English Studies is not smart. Going $200,000 in debt to become a neurosurgeon is another story.
2012-11-13 05:09:29 PM
2 votes:

Elandriel: Well, with the first two posters' idiocy out of the way, while this is a bit far-fetched it once again brings to light the point that many employers won't hire without some fancy sheet of paper that asserts the holder somehow knows how to do the job for which they are applying, and the only way to get that piece of paper is to place yourself in the amount of debt similar to a goddamn home mortgage.


This is the worst fallacy of the "student loan forgiveness" argument. Even with current tuition prices it's possible to go to a community college for 2 years, then work full time and finish the last two years of your degree over 3 or 4 years. Does it take a little longer and require you to not go to the school of your dreams? Probably. But does it mean little to no debt once your done as well as a whole lot of actual work experience? Yes. Yes it does.
2012-11-13 05:01:05 PM
2 votes:
Who are the people that keep for-profit online "colleges" in business? A piece of paper from a brick and mortar university may not count for much, but wouldn't an employer think it's a helluva lot better than online "schools" where the student can sit in his pajamas and smoke weed all day.

The paper may not be worth much, but the experience of interacting with peers seems crucial if you ever want to work with other people.
2012-11-13 04:30:57 PM
2 votes:
The problem here is that you're not paying for a diploma, you're paying for education. So in order to refund your tuition, we'll have to remove what you learned.

Therefore, we need this dude:

www.heroesrevealed.com
2012-11-13 04:29:05 PM
2 votes:

nekom: Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be


That.
2012-11-13 04:18:44 PM
2 votes:
these people need to punch themselves in the nuts. I'm paying back my student loans. they can do.
2012-11-14 02:53:08 PM
1 votes:

Bullseyed: Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.

Total Fark subscription, no problem!
Internet connection, no problem!
Computer, no problem!
What? No I don't have money to pay my bills. Go away.


Jesus farking christ, I explained it upthread. I live with my ex-girlfriend as a couch surfer, I'm on her computer and internet connection. I SKIPPED EATING to buy TF so I could talk to mechanics in the TFD area about my farking piece of shiat car, you ass.
2012-11-14 01:58:20 PM
1 votes:
The real problem is that we are telling everyone that they need to go to college.
2012-11-14 08:56:37 AM
1 votes:

Elandriel: Well, with the first two posters' idiocy out of the way, while this is a bit far-fetched it once again brings to light the point that many employers won't hire without some fancy sheet of paper that asserts the holder somehow knows how to do the job for which they are applying, and the only way to get that piece of paper is to place yourself in the amount of debt similar to a goddamn home mortgage.

Also while the market is certainly saturated, I doubt an MBA is ewquivalent to a degree in UWBW. And, as far as personal responsibility goes, when a college states "You have like a 68% higher chance of getting your dream job at a 42% higher salary!" and then you graduate and the market says "It's called the honey pot son, she played you good", well maybe those farkers would love to make those bill payments, but they can't afford to.


College only costs as much as a mortgage if you're irresponsible about where you go to school. I went to a SUNY school at about $5,500 a year for undergrad and $10,000 a year for grad school. With the scholarship I got I was getting paid $1,400 a semester to go to school when I was commuting and living with my parents. Once I moved out my expenses were a little higher so I wasn't profiting off college anymore.

But I understand, they had to go to that $40,000 a year party school as far away from home as possible so they could skip classes and drink all day.
2012-11-14 03:51:16 AM
1 votes:

Fell In Love With a Chair: Soymilk: You were probably raised to believe that using welfare or social services of any kind is somehow shameful.
It's not. The reason we have those services is so that they're there when you need it, like now.
In Sacramento, here are some resources to tide you over:
Sacramento One Stop Career Center (job leads, interview practice, all free - and they may have paid on-the-job-training programs too, but each center varies) Link
Find a location in Sacramento County where you can enroll in health care by calling (916) 874-2072 or Healthy Families and MediCal (800) 880-5305
Find out how you can apply for assistance Link

God, I'm rude as fark. Thank you so much for getting that info together for me, I'll be calling the Sac County health in the morning (what's the point in holding out for a non-contract job with insurance while my eyes literally need treatment NOW) and check out the career centre in the meanwhile. That was really sweet of you.


I want to also say Sacramento is a very rough economic environment, so do not feel bad. I see more beggars in Sacramento than I did in China. I see more grown men with bicycle trailers of recycling stuff they have scrounged than in 3rd world countries.

If you need the assistance take it - that's what its there for. If it can tide you over, you should volunteer at some place using your skills so that while you are looking for a job you are getting quasi-work experience. Hell, volunteer to help small companies for free. You will get recommendation letters at least and begin networking. Sending in applications or sending out resumes is not how most people get hired.
2012-11-14 01:37:20 AM
1 votes:
The problem is that neither the lenders nor the schools take on any of the risk. The student takes on the entire risk.

Because student debt can't be absolved in bankruptcy, students are on the hook for it for life. It WILL be paid back at some point. The lender will make their money. They have zero risk, as opposed to normal lending situations which have risk and therefore force the lender to be discretionary. With current practice and no risk, there is no discretionary student lending. For instance, lenders could require student loan applicants to maintain degree declarations in fields that are actually hiring. They could do a lot of stuff to reduce risk IF they actually had risk. Give them some of the risk.

Schools also don't have any risk. They know all their consumers will have rubber-stamped infinite loan potential. Hence they can set their pricing non-competitively and jack up rates however they wish. Give them some of the risk.

Put a time-delay in for declaring bankruptcy after graduation. The entire "can't declare bankruptcy" was to ensure kids don't graduate with not a penny to their name and declare just to move on. Instead, make them not able to declare it for a minimum 5 year period. Force them to try to go out and get rid of that debt first, or live shiatty for five years. Maybe make it 10. Or make it dynamically dependent on how much debt is incurred: the more debt you have the longer you must wait until able to declare.
2012-11-14 01:16:52 AM
1 votes:

Soymilk: Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.


You were probably raised to believe that using welfare or social services of any kind is somehow shameful.
It's not. The reason we have those services is so that they're there when you need it, like now.
In Sacramento, here are some resources to tide you over:
Sacramento One Stop Career Center (job leads, interview practice, all free - and they may have paid on-the-job-training programs too, but each center varies) Link
Find a location in Sacramento County where you can enroll in health care by calling (916) 874-2072 or Healthy Families and MediCal (800) 880-5305
Find out how you can apply for assistance Link


Between you and the guy who guessed that not going to college would have been met with violence earlier upthread, you guys are pulling secrets out of me left and right.

I don't think I qualify for most stuff. :c The CMISP stuff yeah, though not mediCal.

I want to do EBT because I'm literally eating all I have left of my money, but my roomate/ex has a good job and thousands of dollars and literally won't buy me food. She just eats at work. However, since she's in the 'household' that counts against me, doesn't it? She DEFINITELY doesn't qualify for assistance and if we're in a 'household' together, whatever that means, well.... why the hell would they expect her to feed me?!
2012-11-14 01:02:45 AM
1 votes:

Ponzholio: Because of the inability of recent college graduates to find gainful employment in order to repay their college debt, and since this college debt cannot be eliminated in bankruptcy, and most of the recent additions to the job market have been in service related industries, the Obama administration should take up the cause of reducing college debt and hold those accountable responsible.

And who, pray tell, is accountable for YOUR debt?


According to my current state law, if I go AWOL or die, my spouse.

/which is completely bs law by the way.
//house always wins apparently.
2012-11-14 12:55:05 AM
1 votes:

Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.


You were probably raised to believe that using welfare or social services of any kind is somehow shameful.
It's not. The reason we have those services is so that they're there when you need it, like now.
In Sacramento, here are some resources to tide you over:
Sacramento One Stop Career Center (job leads, interview practice, all free - and they may have paid on-the-job-training programs too, but each center varies) Link
Find a location in Sacramento County where you can enroll in health care by calling (916) 874-2072 or Healthy Families and MediCal (800) 880-5305
Find out how you can apply for assistance Link
2012-11-14 12:11:46 AM
1 votes:

Fell In Love With a Chair: Even with a bachelor's degree, 10+ years of experience in my field (IT/Networking), clean drug/background/dmv screens, a willingness to work for just barely above minimum wage, and I'm STILL having a hard time finding work. Meanwhile Sallie Mae wants $500 a month. My income is next to nothing, I do art commissions for $10-20 bucks a pop. I'll do literally anything legal for money, $500/mo is more than my rent by a fair share. I live with my ex-girlfriend. She pays my rent still. I don't know why.


Part of it is location. Where I'm at we cannot find enough GOOD IT people. Pay isn't great, but it's pretty darn good. An entry level web dev is going to make 60+. With 10 years of experience you should easily be in the 80-90 range. Once again it's about where you're located and how hot the IT industry is there. The one downside here is if you've been unemployed for a substantial amount of time. The company I used to contract for could not find enough people for the work.

//Central Ohio
2012-11-13 10:36:59 PM
1 votes:

radarlove: jnapier: Hung out at a gas station with the illegals to pick up landscaping work.
Worked muultiple jobs below minimum wage
Have $250,000 in student loan debt.

Thinks the trophy generation is a bunch of entitled whiners.

Ummmmmmm...I don't really think I'm entitled to jack shiat except for a peaceful death that doesn't fark over anyone else, but you are MOST DEFINITELY entitled to a minimum wage. If you work for less than that, you are perpetuating a system that screws over EVERYONE.


Try being a waiter. Unless you live in a larger city, you are SCREWED. And for the record, it seems like a lot of pople are in similar situations...
2012-11-13 10:35:06 PM
1 votes:

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: I'm down to minimum wage, and still have trouble finding work. There's no way to lower my standards further. And when you can get work, they know you're desperate. Last job I had at $7.50/hr had me getting up at 3:30 in the morning and basically being completely responsible for $200,000+ in merchandise for 8-14 hours that day. Complain and you can GTFO. Minor farkup, you can GTFO. Looking at doing federal time if anything goes missing. Required CLEAN criminal history and MVR, drug screen, all that jazz.

For a minimum wage job. IF you can get it.

This guy gets it. I know my wife doesn't need me. I haven't had a "real" job in over five years now. She's been paying the bills, basically by herself. You have to be here to understand our kind of desperation. But I put on the optimistic face, keep sending resumes and filling out shiatty online apps. Swearing profusely every time that phone call turned out to be a telemarketer or bill collector or student loan collector instead of someone with some paying work. shiat sucks, and times are desperate as hell, but I still try.

If I wasn't a damned good father and one hell of a cook, I'd likely have been out on my ass years ago.

/two cents
//still happy with what I got


I'm in the same boat. Stuck in Huntsville, Alabama after getting my two-year at CC in Seattle. Thought I was doing the right thing by moving here to help my parents. But even in-state tuition is too much when you can't find any work!
2012-11-13 10:12:50 PM
1 votes:

SuperDuper28: I could have went to school for free but partying made me drop out after 4 semesters. Fast forward 10 years and I'm still paying off the loans I stupidly maxed out for cash in pocket each semester. I wish I had stayed in and just let grants pay for almost everything but going back now seems like a really bad idea with tuition seemingly at least doubling in the last 10 years and the market being seriously flooded with people with degrees having trouble finding work.

I really do feel for kids pretty much having go in huge debt right out of hichschool just because college is just like any other greed driven business. How else would you explain such a rise is costs for something that is mostly intellectual and not a commodity?


Fancy gyms, residence halls that will be nicer than your first apartment out of school, things like that.
Also the fact that the states have been steadily cutting the funding they used to give the universities, so they have to make up the shortfall somewhere, at least that's how I understand it.

/Back in school at a state U in the southwest
//3030.40 per semester, still haven't seen the inside of the rec center or the fancy new residence halls
///Too old for that stuff
2012-11-13 10:00:11 PM
1 votes:
I could have went to school for free but partying made me drop out after 4 semesters. Fast forward 10 years and I'm still paying off the loans I stupidly maxed out for cash in pocket each semester. I wish I had stayed in and just let grants pay for almost everything but going back now seems like a really bad idea with tuition seemingly at least doubling in the last 10 years and the market being seriously flooded with people with degrees having trouble finding work.

I really do feel for kids pretty much having go in huge debt right out of hichschool just because college is just like any other greed driven business. How else would you explain such a rise is costs for something that is mostly intellectual and not a commodity?
2012-11-13 08:58:39 PM
1 votes:
For the record, I'm not saying I'm not culpable, and I HAVE been paying them down. When I have a job, this isn't an issue so much (okay... $500/mo is a bit to handle sometimes) and I've always done everything I could to keep it off my parent's back. I'm saying 17 is a bad age to decide whether or not you want to be in debt for the next 15 years, and that if you stumble, Sallie Mae is completely ruthless. farking me into bankruptcy and going after my parents is NOT how to get money out of me.

I think educating teenagers on debt management while still in highschool and helping them make educated choices (regardless of of "you're going, sign here") would really help students out later in life.


I'm still on the hook, I'm still paying.... they just have no options to offer an unemployed person with zero income, which sucks. I sent them $80, they called me ten times a day. Ain't got nothin left to give.

/Back and catching up on the thread!
2012-11-13 08:46:15 PM
1 votes:
I agree on allowing student loan debt to be cleared in Bankruptcy and also have colleges drop pointless majors that do not lead to jobs that could pay back the student loans taken out to pay for the education.

Examples : Philosophy and liberal arts.
jgi
2012-11-13 08:19:15 PM
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: jgi: I agree with paying back your loans if you agreed to them, from a moral standpoint, but sometimes I feel those morals faltering when I also consider that I feel it amoral to charge as much as schools do to 18 year olds and pile on the interest. It's becoming a grey area for me.

How the fark is it a grey? No one is forcing anyone to pay their tuition rates.

Oh, look, that Mercedes is really nice. Go into debt, over pay for the car and then whine that you can't pay and they charged you too much.


Kids are told by authority figures that they must go to college to get ahead in life. They are told any degree is worthwhile. These ideas aren't true of course, but when the people who hold the most authority in your little world (your parents, your teachers, your counselors, and to some extent the government) are telling you this is what you do, your mind doesn't really question it. Some particularly bright kids do question it and maybe do something else. But to expect every child to weigh the financial consequences of doing what they are told to do is really an absurd notion. In our current culture, the entire institution is becoming a grey area.
2012-11-13 08:04:24 PM
1 votes:

Rye_: I'm sorry for your troubles, but it's difficult to be sympathetic when you take zero responsibility for the position you're in.


Taking personal responsibility for shiat that genuinely isn't your fault does not make you an upstanding, bootstrappy person. It makes you a doormat and a piece of shiat and it dooms you to always being one.

It sounds to me from what I've read of her posts, that she was forced into a shiatty situation by circumstance.

Now as for me? I made the decision to go to college. I was pressured, sure, but the decision was mine. The decision to leave school in order to avoid living on the streets was mine as well. I accept responsibility for those decisions, but I'd be a schmuck if I bore the responsibility for the circumstances that led to those decisions.
2012-11-13 08:03:33 PM
1 votes:

CujoQuarrel: Forty-Three: CujoQuarrel: Just checked the local Comm College and it's rates still seem reasonable (about 2k a semester) and the local University (about 4k a semester). This is for state residents.

So how did you guys get into so much debt?

4k tuition a semester for a 4 year degree means 32k on tuition alone. Adding books, fees, room and board about doubles that. Typical payment on a 60k plus loan is something in the neighborhodd of $600/month.

It would be a bit better if you frontloaded the first 2 years at community college so it.s
2+2+2+2 then 4+4+4+4 for 24k. You can cut down the number of years by taking extra courses so maybe save 4kish to get it to 20k.


I teach at a state university and can tell you that doing the first half of you degree at a CC solely to save money is not really worth it. If you're going to be a full time student and can get in, it's better to do the whole 4yrs in one place. A large percentage of the transfer students I have seen end up either getting not-so-good grades, having to re-take one or more classes or just learning less over all because the pre-requisites for the upper division classes don't quite match what they took at their last school. Taking more than the normal amount of classes is also usually a bad idea because people who are overworked don't process information very well. Overnighters and caffiene might help you memorize stuff for the test but won't really help you learn anything.

Books prices suck I agree, check into renting from Amazon or getting several friends to take the same course and share a book (used to do that way back when).

This whole textbook rental (and resale, for that matter) thing is a big racket. If you want to use your degree after you graduate keep your textbooks. Even if you don't, or if it's for a non-major class, keep them. They are required for your class (usually) because they are good books. When I was an undergrad, I sold the books for the couple history and literature classes I took because I didn't think I'd need them but ended up regretting it years later and buying new copies because I wanted to read them again.

If possible live at home (I actually lived in my car for six months).

If you happen to live in a town with a public university that has a solid program in your chosen major this is a good idea. Unfortunately, it only applies to a very small number of students.

Eat ramen. Don't party. Don't smoke. Don't drink.

Sort of. Depending on where you go to school you can save a little bit by living off campus in a place that has a kitchen so you can cook for yourself and eat cheaply but then you're on the hook for utilities and transportation. Last time I checked, here my U, a shared room in the dorms and 3 squares a day in the dining hall was about 1k a month. Living off campus here is maybe a hundred bucks cheaper (and that's only if you take a place without indoor plumbing) a month and takes up more of your time than living on campus so the on/off campus choice is mostly a lifestyle choice and makes a small difference financially.

You need to find a job while going to school and something to work at during the summers. Fast food delivery is the best if you can swing it during school. Mowing in the summers.

Most students here work a few hours during the semester and full time in the summer. Unless you hit the job lottery, this will not substantially reduce the cost of the education. The best jobs to get are the work study or research jobs in or related to your major and these usually do not pay very much.

All of these are nice suggestions but will maybe cut a 65k loan down to a 55k loan for most students. Every little bit counts of course, but we're still talking at least $500 a month in loan payments after graduation.
2012-11-13 07:54:24 PM
1 votes:

rumpelstiltskin: Why don't you apply for jobs in Santa Fe or Albuquerque? There are plenty of people who live on the hill and commute to Santa Fe.


Those people have cars. It is a hell of a hike to SF, and an even bigger schlep to ABQ. There is a bus that heads out there, but it only runs in the middle of the day on weedays. You damn well better believe though that if I get a car, job hunting in SF if going to be my life until I find work. Might even find it in my preferred industry if I can get there regularly.

Fell In Love With a Chair: If it comes down to it, joining the military is my last resort. I'll do it, if they'll have me (I have heart problems).


You won't. Tried that for exactly the same reason as you, and got turned away because of my heart problems. Nailed the ASVAB though.

Skywolf Philosopher: I really couldn't imagine how I'd do it if I didn't have the hope my God offers me.


THIS. I know Fark likes to bash on religion a lot, but if I didn't believe in a merciful, just, benevolent, and loving God I'd have blown my brains out years ago. But I do, so I don't, even though the temptation to do so is painfully strong sometimes.

I love you guys.
2012-11-13 07:38:44 PM
1 votes:

Rye_: HotIgneous Intruder: kxs401: Get a restraining order, if necessary. Just cut them out of your life. Pay the student loans when you're able, but they voluntarily agreed to cosign. Legally, there's nothing they can do to you.

It'll be okay, I promise.

This times ten.
They signed the papers.

Yeah, fark them for trusting him. That's their own fault.

Fell In Love With a Chair, just forget about the debt altogether. Change your number. Move. Sallie Mae will go after your folks. Sure, your credit will be in the crapper for a long, long time, but that's gotta be someone else's fault, too. And fark them for not letting you read what you were signing, or giving you time to do a little math before forcing a pen in your hand. Where did they get off, taking advantage of somebody who couldn't think for himself? I'm with you buddy. I hope this all just goes away.


Your sarcasm is unwarranted. I'm guessing you don't remember what it was like being 17 or maybe you don't have a tiger mom, but going to college and where I went to college wasn't an option. They didn't have me read what I was signing, the sat me down at the kitchen table, gave me a pen, and told me I was going.

When you're 17, that is your whole world. You don't get a choice about what your parents tell you to do, unless you have somewhere else you can go. If I hadn't gone, I probably would have just killed myself instead. I spent every from my 15th birthday counting down til my high school graduation- that was the date I'd be able to leave and never come back. The fact that they presented me with an option that wasn't "cardboard box", you farking bet I signed. I signed every last paper and I'd probably do it again too.

Instead of busting ass and getting that 4.0 while having a part time job, I'd get a 2.0, as close to full time work as I could get, and then I'd quit college and not give my parents my address instead of being their debt slave for the rest of my life.
2012-11-13 07:10:30 PM
1 votes:

Fell In Love With a Chair: /TMI + venting
//But it's better than freaking out


Your parents signed the papers, so they know the deal.
If they're making threats making you feel unsafe, file a police report. (Really.)
If they can't be civil with you, cut them off because you've got enough crap to deal with without them wrecking you psychologically.

Remember: Honey Badger just doesn't care.
Be. That. Honey. Badger.
2012-11-13 06:58:36 PM
1 votes:
How about if we just stop offering student loans?

/ no, really.
2012-11-13 06:53:30 PM
1 votes:

WhoGAS: I can't say that working a minimum wage job will start you on the path to "success" but I can definitely say that sticking to your values, looking out for others and thinking about the big picture outside your own selfish world will get you further than you believe. But it has to be genuine...you have to change yourself for real, not just go through the motions.

My only advice as an "older american" is that hard work and focusing on the positive will get you further in life than where you are now. No big promises of riches, but it won't hurt to get rid of the excuses with which you hold yourself back.


"Politicians and businessmen spend the last thirty years systematically destroying the social safety nets that led to the largest middle class boom in the history of the world" equals "I'm selfish and making excuses because I'm reluctant to work an ass-backwards minimum-wage job with no chance for advancement" as told by a generation that got the benefit of that middle class boom and have apparently decided they don't want anyone else to.

Got it.
2012-11-13 06:50:59 PM
1 votes:

brittmule: Fell In Love With a Chair: brittmule:
Sallie Mae is a bunch of dicks, and it sounds like your parents are too.

That being said, if you have 10 years in IT experience, I'd be interested in seeing your resume. My company is hiring a bunch of IT folks in the next year. No guarantees, of course, but I'd like to help if I can.

Holy shiat! That's amazing- anything helps, and in this industry networking is extremely important in times like these. I'll email you ASAP.

Sweet! I'll try to put in some referrals tomorrow. Just make sure your name, address, etc is there.

Annnnnd now I sound like a stalker.


Hey, after this stupid election season, I think one of the best things we can do is start helping each other instead of continuously kicking each other in the nuts, or ovaries, or whatever.
2012-11-13 06:50:28 PM
1 votes:

Mr_Juche: So I heard something a little while ago that I thought would be interesting to try. I was listening to Minnesota Public Radio and they were talking to three foreign reporters to get an outsiders perspective of the election. One of them was from Australia. When the topic of university debt came up, he talked about how they handled it. I believe that, if you go to a public university in Australia there is no tuition. However, after you graduate and your income reaches a certain level the cost is added to your income tax bill. I think it was something like an added two or three percent added per year. While I obviously don't have the specifics, it would be interesting to see if that could work here.


That's really not a bad idea, however, what happens if you leave the country?

I'd love to see the PnL numbers from that program to see what percentage is actually recouped vs the total cost.

Let's say i graduate at 24 and start hitting the income threshold @ 28 and i retire @ 62. Just pulling numbers out if my arse here, but let's say that the pay threshold is $100k and let's assume for simplicity sake that it stays the same over my lifetime, though i would disappointed if it did.

34yrs @ $3k a year = $102k paid back in my lifetime that i likely won't miss in that increment. Realistically it would be more with cost of living raises, but then again these numbers are purely rectal.
2012-11-13 06:49:30 PM
1 votes:

Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.


I just wanted to say that I completely understand what you're going through and know how dark and hopeless it all feels...I'm right there with you.

Solidarity, sistah.
2012-11-13 06:47:57 PM
1 votes:

Malacon: ongbok: CujoQuarrel: Just checked the local Comm College and it's rates still seem reasonable (about 2k a semester) and the local University (about 4k a semester). This is for state residents.

So how did you guys get into so much debt?

out of state or private schools. And some people think spending 2 years at a CC makes you a failure.

Not only that, but 4k for a State University is JUST tuition. When I was in college at a SUNY, I was paying only a little less for my room and my meal plan than I was for my actual tuition. Add books and supplies and it was about even.

I went to a CC, got my AAS and followed up for my BS, but my Major wasn't available locally from a State School, so I had to go away. I even did 1 year as a Resident Assistant where they paid for my room and half of the full meal plan, and I STILL racked up 11k in loans over 4 semesters a decade ago. The only reason I got off that cheap was I worked a full time job and a part time job while at CC, so the money I banked carried me through (and my parents covering my car insurance) and I worked a single part time job while away.

I lucked out and had a connection that helped me find employment that started right after graduation, which was great because I was pretty much broke. The kicker is that's a contact I made while at CC. Aside from personal development and life experience the extra 2 years did little extra to help prepare me for my career.

I wish I knew that before hand, I wish someone had told me, but no one did. Everyone drilled into me that I needed at least a BA/BS, so that's what I did. In the long run I made out as well as anyone can expect to, but I know I'm the exception.

I have friends who are making substantially more than I am, but still paying off their loans, because they went away all 4 years to private schools.


Very much this.

/Also went to a CC and then on to SUNY.
2012-11-13 06:45:04 PM
1 votes:

ongbok: And some people think spending 2 years at a CC makes you a failure.


Damn. I went to a great community college and I was pretty let down when I finally arrived at a four-year state school.

/My CC offered more languages than the state university college, including Russian, Greek, Latin, and Italian.
2012-11-13 06:40:16 PM
1 votes:

ongbok: CujoQuarrel: Just checked the local Comm College and it's rates still seem reasonable (about 2k a semester) and the local University (about 4k a semester). This is for state residents.

So how did you guys get into so much debt?

out of state or private schools. And some people think spending 2 years at a CC makes you a failure.


Not only that, but 4k for a State University is JUST tuition. When I was in college at a SUNY, I was paying only a little less for my room and my meal plan than I was for my actual tuition. Add books and supplies and it was about even.

I went to a CC, got my AAS and followed up for my BS, but my Major wasn't available locally from a State School, so I had to go away. I even did 1 year as a Resident Assistant where they paid for my room and half of the full meal plan, and I STILL racked up 11k in loans over 4 semesters a decade ago. The only reason I got off that cheap was I worked a full time job and a part time job while at CC, so the money I banked carried me through (and my parents covering my car insurance) and I worked a single part time job while away.

I lucked out and had a connection that helped me find employment that started right after graduation, which was great because I was pretty much broke. The kicker is that's a contact I made while at CC. Aside from personal development and life experience the extra 2 years did little extra to help prepare me for my career.

I wish I knew that before hand, I wish someone had told me, but no one did. Everyone drilled into me that I needed at least a BA/BS, so that's what I did. In the long run I made out as well as anyone can expect to, but I know I'm the exception.

I have friends who are making substantially more than I am, but still paying off their loans, because they went away all 4 years to private schools.
2012-11-13 06:37:33 PM
1 votes:

kxs401: Fell In Love With a Chair: HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.

I was told on the phone that I still don't meet the criteria because my cosigner isn't in hardship (they're just estranged/disowned) and since they're private loans apparently I don't qualify for having used a hardship deferral in the past.

If your parents cosigned, they should help you out with the loans. It will negatively affect your parents' credit if the loans aren't paid on time.


You betcha, even if you send those farkers your last $80.

Then they call your folks, they pay $800, call you up screaming and tell you they're going to take you away from your partner, your house, your family, friends and support network, and make you live in their house in the middle of the woods on the complete opposite coast with no car, no possessions, and lots and lots of Jesus to pray the gay away while you get a job "somewhere in town" ten miles away.

Difficulty: no car, no sidewalks, and they're under a foot of snow already. I have decent outdoor survival skills but my mom works for the PD so if I did end up having to make an escape attempt, I wouldn't make it to the main road before I got caught. I have pals in NYC who're ready to come get me back if my partner tells them I went missing out here in CA.
2012-11-13 06:35:14 PM
1 votes:

Amos Quito: I have to wonder, are student loans being "bundled" and bought and sold as commodities like sub-prime mortgages of a few rears back?

Goldman?

AIG?


If so, those bonds are triple-platinumAAAA rated.
Being as they are based on bond servitude.
2012-11-13 06:31:20 PM
1 votes:

Fell In Love With a Chair: I_Hate_Iowa: I saw a flyer on a lamp post here in Minneapolis with some garbage about "unfair student loans" and getting Obama to do something about them. Shut up, idiots. No one forced you to take anything. Shut up and pay what you owe. That being said, if they succeeded in some fantasy world, you bet your ass I'd get in on that. I guess I'm the Ron Paul of student loan forgiveness. But the people screaming "Student loans are immoral" and shiat like that are dumbfarks.

fark you.


I understand the sentiment. I came on strong and didn't quite explain myself. You obviously are having a rough go at it. But I know people here who have jobs and can pay their loans and still biatch that they shouldn't have to do that. Those are the assholes I want to shut up. Sorry.
2012-11-13 06:30:52 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: kxs401: Only if the loans are federal. She says they're private debt, which is much, much worse. They won't work with you like the DoE servicers will, and the loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.

She said Sallie Mae is holding the loans. Sallie Mae holds my loans and so I know what's possible with Sallie Mae. Am I somehow wrong about that?


Sallie Mae service both federally-owned and privately-owned loans. What kinds of deferments and forebearances and how many you can get are determined by who owns the loan (with some variation among servicers).

I briefly worked for one of the four federal student loan servicers.
2012-11-13 06:29:00 PM
1 votes:
Learn to weld, and join a union. You'll be able to pay off those pesky loans in no time. You'll make ALOT more then flipping burgers.
2012-11-13 06:27:47 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: KidneyStone: Looks at profile....how about you get a haircut and take the shiat out of your face and ears and then look for a job,

Hey, guess what? That's what I look like in my FREE TIME. When I am on the job, I dress and style like a BUSINESS PROFESSIONAL. Thanks for looking at me in my pjs with my kitty and making baseless assumptions. I'm gonna go ahead and guess you're a dickweed, how'd that feel?

Hey wait.
She's busted broke but can afford Total Fark so that we mere liters can't see her profile, which is apparently hideous?

The irony is rather delicious.


I skipped eating for two days so I could ask a question in TFD about wether or not I was getting ripped off at the mechanic. I have it budgeted so I can eat for $2/day right now, but I'm probably going to have to cut back soon.
2012-11-13 06:26:39 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.


I was told on the phone that I still don't meet the criteria because my cosigner isn't in hardship (they're just estranged/disowned) and since they're private loans apparently I don't qualify for having used a hardship deferral in the past.
2012-11-13 06:25:41 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.


Only if the loans are federal. She says they're private debt, which is much, much worse. They won't work with you like the DoE servicers will, and the loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.
2012-11-13 06:24:23 PM
1 votes:

Blues_X: nekom: Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be

That.



What? And lose out on a generation of indentured servants?
2012-11-13 06:22:53 PM
1 votes:

brittmule:
Sallie Mae is a bunch of dicks, and it sounds like your parents are too.

That being said, if you have 10 years in IT experience, I'd be interested in seeing your resume. My company is hiring a bunch of IT folks in the next year. No guarantees, of course, but I'd like to help if I can.


Holy shiat! That's amazing- anything helps, and in this industry networking is extremely important in times like these. I'll email you ASAP.
2012-11-13 06:22:46 PM
1 votes:

olddinosaur: No symping farkathy here.

I graduated into the teeth of Nixon's recession with $100 in my pocket, no debts and a 5--year--old car.

There were no jobs for educated people so I had to work for two years as a laborer before I could stack up enough money to leave that dead--end town.

Suck it up crybabies, you make me flucking sick.


$550 in the pocket (equivalent to $100 in 1972 dollars), no debt, an old car, and steady work as a shiat-shoveler would be a considerable step up for a lot of people coming out of school these days. Some folks I know and care about are in worse situations than Fell In Love with a Chair up above. Comments like yours only show how out-of-touch the boomer generation is with the problems of young people trying to gain more than a tenuous foothold. The system as it is is farked, and attitudes like yours are not helping.


And for the record, I have a ~$1,600 monthly law school loan payment that I pay in full and then some every month - a ten-year note that I should have killed in 6 or so at the rate I'm going. So I'll tell you in advance not to waste your breath on the lectures about responsibility.
2012-11-13 06:20:31 PM
1 votes:
I majored in Criminal Justice in college, but ended up having to drop out when my family moved out of town, my rent skyrocketed, and I ended up having to work two minimum wage jobs to make ends meet.

I tried paying off my loans...for a while. But the cost of living in a college town quickly put an end to that and I slid into default. That was ten years ago. Today I am unemployed, living with my in-laws in a jobless town, broken, pathetic, lost, aimless and goalless. My credit is utterly destroyed and a lot of employers have turned me down based on that alone. My student loans have repeatedly kept me from work and the loan company refuses to work with me on them.

I am only in my mid-30s and I am already in a deep dark hole from which there is no possible escape. I am somberly beginning to accept the fact that I will never have a job that isn't entry-level, menial, and minimum wage (if I'm ever able to find one at all)). I will never be able to really provide for my wife and will never own a home. If I am ever able to buy a car again, it will end up being a shiatty hand-me-down from a sympathetic friend. I will never retire, I will never be able to take care of my aging parents, I will never be able to afford to start a family, and I will never be able to afford (much needed) healthcare. I am utterly and completely f*cked for the rest of my life, and I can't even kill myself because the debt would just be passed on to my next of kin.

And all because I made the stupid, stupid, STUPID decision to try to better myself and get into a career where I could help people.
2012-11-13 06:20:29 PM
1 votes:

KidneyStone: Looks at profile....how about you get a haircut and take the shiat out of your face and ears and then look for a job,


Hey, guess what? That's what I look like in my FREE TIME. When I am on the job, I dress and style like a BUSINESS PROFESSIONAL. Thanks for looking at me in my pjs with my kitty and making baseless assumptions. I'm gonna go ahead and guess you're a dickweed, how'd that feel?
2012-11-13 06:19:44 PM
1 votes:

CujoQuarrel: Just checked the local Comm College and it's rates still seem reasonable (about 2k a semester) and the local University (about 4k a semester). This is for state residents.

So how did you guys get into so much debt?


4k tuition a semester for a 4 year degree means 32k on tuition alone. Adding books, fees, room and board about doubles that. Typical payment on a 60k plus loan is something in the neighborhodd of $600/month.
2012-11-13 06:19:40 PM
1 votes:

Elandriel: nekom: Alternate idea: Allow it to be discharged in a 13. Reasonable payments based on the particular situation for, what 5 years for a 13? I agree they shouldn't be able to discharge it right after receiving their education, it shouldn't be allowed to be done in bad faith. But for some people, it is absolutely the best option not currently available to them.

I know the argument is essentially "The debtor has received a [tangible] service and/or product to which the creditor has no recompense" but then you know what? Maybe don't make your farking school so expensive.

And of course, if anyone wants to know the real reason why tuition rates have skyrocketed, look no further than the fact that you can not ever, ever escape them, even through bankruptcy, and in some cases death.


This.

I am in a bad student debt situation. Not only does my law degree dictate that I should be making more than an assistant manager at McDonald's, but my 5 years experience should, too. But thanks to the crashed economy, I have to compete with the 60 year old morons who lost everything in the housing bubble.

I gambled, I lost. The only difference is that the farktards who lost their pensions and huge ass homes and other moronic debt get to discharge it in bankruptcy.

Boomers screw us again.
2012-11-13 06:17:04 PM
1 votes:

Fell In Love With a Chair: I'd flip burgers.


Sure, you would. I would too (I actually did something similar, I went back to a manufacturing job when one I went to school for fell through, and back to roofing when it happened again). But you and I know that we aren't above doing menial labor if we need to do so. But my point is, if you had the idea that you were above it drilled into your skull for 18-20 years, what would your attitude be? I'm betting it would be very similar to a lot of younger people today, the idea that they can go do something 'below' them never even occurs to them, because that's how they've been trained to think. It's not a good way to think, but there it is anyway. We'd all be better if we explained why that sort of thinking is wrong instead of yelling at them for thinking that way.
2012-11-13 06:16:14 PM
1 votes:

Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.

Seems like plenty of people in this thread are ready to pass a snap judgement that anyone crushed by a $44k debt clean out of college is just a lazy asshole. You sound like my parents, completely out of touch with reality. Just go down to the Wal-mart and get a job with those groceries. Saying you're "over-qualified" is narcissistic bullshiat, they TOOOTALLY hire people with four year degrees to stock shelves. Get over yourself, kid. You're not too good to make fries.

Even with a bachelor's degree, 10+ years of experience in my field (IT/Networking), clean drug/background/dmv screens, a willingness to work for just barely above minimum wage, and I'm STILL having a hard time finding work. Meanwhile Sallie Mae wants $500 a month. My income is next to nothing, I do art commissions for $10-20 bucks a pop. I'll do literally anything legal for money, $500/mo is more than my rent by a fair share. I live with my ex-girlfriend. She pays my rent still. I don't know why.

I've never been on welfare, foodstamps, and apart from two months on unemployment years ago, I've paid tens of thousands of dollars into the system and asked for less than a grand in return over the 12 years I've been employed.

fark you people.

I'm 28 years old and at this rate I will never own a house or a new car. I cannot get out from under this debt. I signed my tuition papers at 17, not understanding what would happen, or how this impacted my future. I was a child and we were told IF YOU DO NOT GO TO COLLEGE, YOU WON'T GET WORK. Now graduates are told "Without experience, you will not get hired". How do you get experience in your field without having a job in the first place? I am one of the lucky ones, I have the experience, but get passed over for being a young woman, and only having my A+ certification, because I can't aff ...


Looks at profile....how about you get a haircut and take the shiat out of your face and ears and then look for a job,
2012-11-13 06:14:51 PM
1 votes:

Broktun: When is the Student Loan Bubble (SLB) going to pop?


Soon.
2012-11-13 06:14:37 PM
1 votes:

Fell In Love With a Chair: HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: I will probably have to get a restraining order.

....

If I told her I was gay at 17, I would have been sent to a labor camp instead of a university.



But look at the bright side. If you had been sent to the labor camp you wouldn't owe all that money and would have learned useful skills.
2012-11-13 06:11:11 PM
1 votes:

signaljammer: 'Flipping burgers' isn't a practical remedy in a country saturated with guest workers, is it?


Also it's hard for someone with a college degree to get a burger flipping job because they're overqualified. They know you will drop them in a second to work in your field (assuming you didn't get a degree in high heat grease dispensing).
2012-11-13 06:08:48 PM
1 votes:
Might be a stupid question, but at least it's an honest one: when was the last time a petition on the federal level actually changed anything? I seem to recall the Bush administration turning away petitions in droves, basically rendering them pointless.
2012-11-13 06:08:39 PM
1 votes:

olddinosaur: No symping farkathy here.

I graduated into the teeth of Nixon's recession with $100 in my pocket, no debts and a 5--year--old car.

There were no jobs for educated people so I had to work for two years as a laborer before I could stack up enough money to leave that dead--end town.

Suck it up crybabies, you make me flucking sick.


Do you honestly think that the debt incurred back then and the price of tuition is even close to the same? Before you answer, tuition has increased at twice the rate of normal inflation since 1970,

Since 1970 tuition and fees at UT have risen for undergraduates, the increase has been around 400 percent. In 1970, tuition was $50 for any in-state student enrolled in any college or school for any number of credit hours. Fees were $54 for anyone enrolled at the University. In the Fall semester of 2002, you won't get a twelve hour course load for less than $2,300.
2012-11-13 06:07:30 PM
1 votes:

Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.


Have you looked into IBR? aka Income-Based Repayment: http://www.ibrinfo.org/

Or are your lender(s) not public? I transferred my Stafford loans to DirectLoan (Federal) and then started the IBR plan. This is relatively new stuff (thanks Obama!). If you do IBR and make all payments, which can be very low or even zero if you don't work or have a crap job, they will forgive the remaining after 20 (25?) years of payments. If you get a job with a nonprofit, govt, or school, you can also get Public Service Loan Forgiveness, where it's 10 years.

/not intended as professional advice
2012-11-13 06:07:22 PM
1 votes:
I saw a flyer on a lamp post here in Minneapolis with some garbage about "unfair student loans" and getting Obama to do something about them. Shut up, idiots. No one forced you to take anything. Shut up and pay what you owe. That being said, if they succeeded in some fantasy world, you bet your ass I'd get in on that. I guess I'm the Ron Paul of student loan forgiveness. But the people screaming "Student loans are immoral" and shiat like that are dumbfarks.
2012-11-13 06:05:12 PM
1 votes:

Noticeably F.A.T.: Fell In Love With a Chair: Get over yourself, kid. You're not too good to make fries.

I can't remember where I read it, but I do remember reading an article that made a whole lot of sense that said that it's really no wonder that there is an entire generation that thinks that it is above flipping burgers because for their entire lives that they are above flipping burgers. "You'd better go to school, you'd better get a degree, you don't want to spend your life flipping burgers, do you?" Now, it's not true and they are going to get a quick reality check, but can you really put to much blame on them for thinking like that when that's the only way they have been taught to think?


I'd flip burgers. I'd flip burgers right now. I'd do it for twelve straight hours. For the love of god, if you know someone who needs burgers flipped, I'll do it. Partly why I can't get hired is because I have literally no burger flipping experience. At 16 I was the IT person/webmaster for a medium sized local business (Mustang Motorcycle Seats, actually). I'd flip every farking burger I swear to god I'm so desperate. I can't even sell my farking jalopy car for enough money to pay this shiat off. I need it though to live in, in case my ex decides she doesn't want me around any longer.
2012-11-13 06:05:05 PM
1 votes:
Regionalism seems to play a role in this. In a first-world American city, 'flipping burgers' just isn't gonna cover the rent.
2012-11-13 06:02:26 PM
1 votes:
'Flipping burgers' isn't a practical remedy in a country saturated with guest workers, is it?
2012-11-13 05:57:51 PM
1 votes:
...waste of money.

Of course, a degree in Humanities/Liberal Arts is to.
2012-11-13 05:54:26 PM
1 votes:
www.broodingdetective.com

EDUCATION DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!
2012-11-13 05:49:06 PM
1 votes:
2012-11-13 05:47:17 PM
1 votes:

CujoQuarrel: nekom: I'd go a step further. Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be. You have no idea how many people this would help.

Oh, and I went to college WITHOUT any loans, so I am more than entitled to this opinion. Let 'em BK7 them, it's not without its consequences. Some people are absolutely CRIPPLED by this. Yes, there is the personal responsibility angle, but how many 18 year old kids are really capable of making a decision that can literally haunt them for the rest of their lives? Give them a break, a way out. The whole system is crap.

In that case there would be no unsecured college loans. Because the obvious thing to do would be to borrow like hell and then go bankrupt after you graduate.


In Canada we can get rid of our student loans through bankruptcy after 10 years. We have a lot more people that go to school here (over 50% of the population is of least college educated) and we don't have an issue of borrowing like hell and then choosing to go bankrupt. Even if you choose to go through bankruptcy, there are plenty of downsides to having your credit rating go in the crapper, it's not a win win to get rid of your student loan through bankruptcy.
2012-11-13 05:45:40 PM
1 votes:
Sovs had free tuition, and their unis were on a much higher standard than USAs.
2012-11-13 05:45:29 PM
1 votes:

Broktun: Going $200,000 in debt to get a BA degree in English Studies is not smart. Going $200,000 in debt to become a neurosurgeon is another story.


$200,000 is mighty low for a medical degree. An associate's degree in something like PT or massage will run you $40,000. I know someone in dental school who has over $500,000 in debt and still has a year left.

Tuition at the state school I went to has doubled since I was a freshman there in 2002. My brother graduated 3 years after me, and needed $20,000 more in loans than I did.
2012-11-13 05:42:23 PM
1 votes:

Ex-Texan: [www.memecreator.net image 407x405] 

/Leaving it here.


www.nationalww2museum.org


These are ditch diggers, you damn moron.

And the Department of Defense is downsizing.
2012-11-13 05:40:55 PM
1 votes:

cgraves67: Yes, I'm behind this completely, however with a caveat. Anyone who gets their student loan bailed out is beholden to the federal government and has to fill in potholes, collect rattlesnake venom or whatever menial labor the government requires with 15% of their minimum wages being taxed with the revenue going towards the "bailing out idiot college students" program for a minimum of 10 years.


In British Columbia they have a Loan forgiveness program where you can work in the public sector depending on what you went to school for and your loan will be gone faster than you can say Romney 2012.
2012-11-13 05:39:31 PM
1 votes:
"...the Obama administration should take up the cause of reducing college debt and hold those accountable responsible."

I couldn't agree more, hold these asshats accountable and bring back debtor's prison.
2012-11-13 05:38:36 PM
1 votes:

bradkanus: somebody please explain to me whether this a conservative thing or a liberal thing... I'm really confused.

/no student loans
//put last semester on credit card - so stupid.


It's mainly a liberal cause at this point, although it doesn't have much traction there either. The solution would be to make student debts dischargeable in bankruptcy which would mean fewer loans would be given out, thus there would be less money to pay tuition, and tuition would have to go down. That would be a free market solution but since it helps students conservatives don't seem to support it.
2012-11-13 05:38:16 PM
1 votes:
www.memecreator.net 

/Leaving it here.
2012-11-13 05:36:51 PM
1 votes:
I've got to believe they should've thought about how to pay for all that before spending the 4+ years in school.

Granted, I am not using my degree at all and there is probably no future I can see where I will actually be working on embedded microcontrollers....but the school listed on the degree is enough to trick people in to thinking I can be a good employee.
2012-11-13 05:35:43 PM
1 votes:
Very simple question: Are the students going to give the knowledge back that they got at the university? Are they going to make up for the seat that they took up that the university could have filled with a different student?
2012-11-13 05:34:59 PM
1 votes:

signaljammer: We could do what other countries do and have low/no tuition.


If you think it's expensive now, just wait until it's free.
2012-11-13 05:34:52 PM
1 votes:
weknowmemes.com

/sorry
2012-11-13 05:34:32 PM
1 votes:
How about a compromise. College tuition rates locks in at time of acceptance for the entirety of a students pursuit (for that specific degree).
2012-11-13 05:33:55 PM
1 votes:
I have $900 a month in private student loan bills. My DoE debt is bigger, but more easily manageable. I'm not really sure how I'm ever supposed to start a life, buy a house, have children with this millstone around my neck.
2012-11-13 05:33:51 PM
1 votes:

ManateeGag: these people need to punch themselves in the nuts. I'm paying back my student loans. they can do.


English major?
2012-11-13 05:31:30 PM
1 votes:
We could do what other countries do and have low/no tuition.
2012-11-13 05:31:05 PM
1 votes:

lamecomedian: nekom: but how many 18 year old kids are really capable of making a decision that can literally haunt them for the rest of their lives?

They can vote, can't they?


Or join the military.
2012-11-13 05:25:53 PM
1 votes:
Yes, I'm behind this completely, however with a caveat. Anyone who gets their student loan bailed out is beholden to the federal government and has to fill in potholes, collect rattlesnake venom or whatever menial labor the government requires with 15% of their minimum wages being taxed with the revenue going towards the "bailing out idiot college students" program for a minimum of 10 years.
2012-11-13 05:25:52 PM
1 votes:
I'd like a refund for my BS in Mechanical Engineering. I've never used it. I make a living hustling used books.
2012-11-13 05:25:23 PM
1 votes:

knbber2: Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee, to hell with personal responsibility.


sounds to me like a whinny republican trying to make a point.

and failing as they usually do
2012-11-13 05:24:55 PM
1 votes:
When you think about it, the Federal government is actually throwing money away on these student loans. With all the diploma mills out there, we could probably eliminate the spending deficit if the Government simply kept all the interest on all the liberal arts majors out there with $80k in student debt.

/it's a stupid tax
//it's the best way to get rid of spending/taxing gaps.
///it's worked for Nevada for decades.
2012-11-13 04:33:02 PM
1 votes:
Courtesy of @IowaHawkBlog, great thinker of our time

fark you, you self-aggrandizing, entitled little shiatstain.

Oh, wait. He's not a whiny little recent grad. He's a grown-ass man with 2 kids and a blog that links to the entire constellation of right-wing nut jobbery.

fark you, you teatard shiatstain.
2012-11-13 04:20:34 PM
1 votes:
by the way, another thing the federal government may not be able to help you with. people are farking stupid.
 
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