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(White House)   In this day of White House petitions, college students petitioning Obama to refund 100% their tuition in trade for their diplomas   (petitions.whitehouse.gov) divider line 335
    More: Fail, White House, obama, diplomas, tuition, petitions  
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9506 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Nov 2012 at 5:20 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-14 01:16:52 AM  

Soymilk: Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.


You were probably raised to believe that using welfare or social services of any kind is somehow shameful.
It's not. The reason we have those services is so that they're there when you need it, like now.
In Sacramento, here are some resources to tide you over:
Sacramento One Stop Career Center (job leads, interview practice, all free - and they may have paid on-the-job-training programs too, but each center varies) Link
Find a location in Sacramento County where you can enroll in health care by calling (916) 874-2072 or Healthy Families and MediCal (800) 880-5305
Find out how you can apply for assistance Link


Between you and the guy who guessed that not going to college would have been met with violence earlier upthread, you guys are pulling secrets out of me left and right.

I don't think I qualify for most stuff. :c The CMISP stuff yeah, though not mediCal.

I want to do EBT because I'm literally eating all I have left of my money, but my roomate/ex has a good job and thousands of dollars and literally won't buy me food. She just eats at work. However, since she's in the 'household' that counts against me, doesn't it? She DEFINITELY doesn't qualify for assistance and if we're in a 'household' together, whatever that means, well.... why the hell would they expect her to feed me?!
 
2012-11-14 01:28:44 AM  

Soymilk: You were probably raised to believe that using welfare or social services of any kind is somehow shameful.
It's not. The reason we have those services is so that they're there when you need it, like now.
In Sacramento, here are some resources to tide you over:
Sacramento One Stop Career Center (job leads, interview practice, all free - and they may have paid on-the-job-training programs too, but each center varies) Link
Find a location in Sacramento County where you can enroll in health care by calling (916) 874-2072 or Healthy Families and MediCal (800) 880-5305
Find out how you can apply for assistance Link


God, I'm rude as fark. Thank you so much for getting that info together for me, I'll be calling the Sac County health in the morning (what's the point in holding out for a non-contract job with insurance while my eyes literally need treatment NOW) and check out the career centre in the meanwhile. That was really sweet of you.
 
2012-11-14 01:37:20 AM  
The problem is that neither the lenders nor the schools take on any of the risk. The student takes on the entire risk.

Because student debt can't be absolved in bankruptcy, students are on the hook for it for life. It WILL be paid back at some point. The lender will make their money. They have zero risk, as opposed to normal lending situations which have risk and therefore force the lender to be discretionary. With current practice and no risk, there is no discretionary student lending. For instance, lenders could require student loan applicants to maintain degree declarations in fields that are actually hiring. They could do a lot of stuff to reduce risk IF they actually had risk. Give them some of the risk.

Schools also don't have any risk. They know all their consumers will have rubber-stamped infinite loan potential. Hence they can set their pricing non-competitively and jack up rates however they wish. Give them some of the risk.

Put a time-delay in for declaring bankruptcy after graduation. The entire "can't declare bankruptcy" was to ensure kids don't graduate with not a penny to their name and declare just to move on. Instead, make them not able to declare it for a minimum 5 year period. Force them to try to go out and get rid of that debt first, or live shiatty for five years. Maybe make it 10. Or make it dynamically dependent on how much debt is incurred: the more debt you have the longer you must wait until able to declare.
 
2012-11-14 02:38:02 AM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Soymilk: Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.

You were probably raised to believe that using welfare or social services of any kind is somehow shameful.
It's not. The reason we have those services is so that they're there when you need it, like now.
In Sacramento, here are some resources to tide you over:
Sacramento One Stop Career Center (job leads, interview practice, all free - and they may have paid on-the-job-training programs too, but each center varies) Link
Find a location in Sacramento County where you can enroll in health care by calling (916) 874-2072 or Healthy Families and MediCal (800) 880-5305
Find out how you can apply for assistance Link

Between you and the guy who guessed that not going to college would have been met with violence earlier upthread, you guys are pulling secrets out of me left and right.

I don't think I qualify for most stuff. :c The CMISP stuff yeah, though not mediCal.

I want to do EBT because I'm literally eating all I have left of my money, but my roomate/ex has a good job and thousands of dollars and literally won't buy me food. She just eats at work. However, since she's in the 'household' that counts against me, doesn't it? She DEFINITELY doesn't qualify for assistance and if we're in a 'household' together, whatever that means, well.... why the hell would they expect her to feed me?!


FWIW, I'm not sure a roommate really counts as 'household' if you are not combining expenses. But it costs nothing to look into it by contacting the agencies.

Do try the Career Center though - they have multiple locations, there must be one near you. I work with the centers in Southern California and it's like the best kept secret ever.
 
2012-11-14 03:51:16 AM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Soymilk: You were probably raised to believe that using welfare or social services of any kind is somehow shameful.
It's not. The reason we have those services is so that they're there when you need it, like now.
In Sacramento, here are some resources to tide you over:
Sacramento One Stop Career Center (job leads, interview practice, all free - and they may have paid on-the-job-training programs too, but each center varies) Link
Find a location in Sacramento County where you can enroll in health care by calling (916) 874-2072 or Healthy Families and MediCal (800) 880-5305
Find out how you can apply for assistance Link

God, I'm rude as fark. Thank you so much for getting that info together for me, I'll be calling the Sac County health in the morning (what's the point in holding out for a non-contract job with insurance while my eyes literally need treatment NOW) and check out the career centre in the meanwhile. That was really sweet of you.


I want to also say Sacramento is a very rough economic environment, so do not feel bad. I see more beggars in Sacramento than I did in China. I see more grown men with bicycle trailers of recycling stuff they have scrounged than in 3rd world countries.

If you need the assistance take it - that's what its there for. If it can tide you over, you should volunteer at some place using your skills so that while you are looking for a job you are getting quasi-work experience. Hell, volunteer to help small companies for free. You will get recommendation letters at least and begin networking. Sending in applications or sending out resumes is not how most people get hired.
 
2012-11-14 04:03:38 AM  
I am OK with this. Let the students turn in their diploma and have their student loans erased from the books, provided, of course, that they can figure out some way to remove the knowledge from their brain, too. I am thinking full frontal lobotomy.
 
2012-11-14 06:35:24 AM  
That pesky 3.8% unemployment for college grads is a real pain in the ass......
 
2012-11-14 07:01:28 AM  
But just think about high educated all of our waiters and waitresses will be though.

In any case, I think the government has already spent enough money. Could you imagine how much our debt would be if the government paid off every college students loans in the entire country?
You think $16.4 trillion is high?
 
2012-11-14 08:43:13 AM  
I'm all for personal responsibility. Yes. Definitely.

The government should adopt a vigorous policy of expecting more responsibility, starting with:

(a) the banks, and
(b) academia.

The only way to make banks and colleges more personally responsible for their actions (i.e., their failures) is to remove the massive, multi-trillion-dollar subsidies (extracted by force from taxpayers) that they currently enjoy. These subsidies are largely in the form of government sponsorship of debt.

If these organizations can't hack it, and succeed on their own, staffed though they are with the very best and brightest people in the world, then fark them. They should be responsible for their failure to run a successful enterprise, and be left to find another line of work.
 
2012-11-14 08:50:21 AM  
"hold those accountable responsible"

Always good when your petition contradicts itself half way through. The students are the ones responsible, or in this case, irresponsible.
 
2012-11-14 08:56:37 AM  

Elandriel: Well, with the first two posters' idiocy out of the way, while this is a bit far-fetched it once again brings to light the point that many employers won't hire without some fancy sheet of paper that asserts the holder somehow knows how to do the job for which they are applying, and the only way to get that piece of paper is to place yourself in the amount of debt similar to a goddamn home mortgage.

Also while the market is certainly saturated, I doubt an MBA is ewquivalent to a degree in UWBW. And, as far as personal responsibility goes, when a college states "You have like a 68% higher chance of getting your dream job at a 42% higher salary!" and then you graduate and the market says "It's called the honey pot son, she played you good", well maybe those farkers would love to make those bill payments, but they can't afford to.


College only costs as much as a mortgage if you're irresponsible about where you go to school. I went to a SUNY school at about $5,500 a year for undergrad and $10,000 a year for grad school. With the scholarship I got I was getting paid $1,400 a semester to go to school when I was commuting and living with my parents. Once I moved out my expenses were a little higher so I wasn't profiting off college anymore.

But I understand, they had to go to that $40,000 a year party school as far away from home as possible so they could skip classes and drink all day.
 
2012-11-14 08:59:49 AM  

Elandriel: Meh said it better than I did. I work in bankruptcy. The two things I see as the primary cause are medical bills and home mortgages, and in the vast majority of bk petitions I review I see student loans, often above six digits. What an act of collusion to make them immune from discharge. They should have made it more like the "910" clause in Chapter 13 whereby you can't simply discharge them immediately after school, but to make them entirely non-dischargable absent ridiculously difficult to satisfy requirements?


What school charges over a million dollars for a degree? Above six digits means seven or more...

Mortgages should also be non-dischargable. You don't want to let the "bankers that got us into this mess" to go back to their unregulated state, do you?
 
2012-11-14 09:03:25 AM  

Elandriel: I know the argument is essentially "The debtor has received a [tangible] service and/or product to which the creditor has no recompense" but then you know what? Maybe don't make your farking school so expensive.

And of course, if anyone wants to know the real reason why tuition rates have skyrocketed, look no further than the fact that you can not ever, ever escape them, even through bankruptcy, and in some cases death.


Yeah they should lower prices because you're far too stupid to be expected to make responsible decisions, like not going to a school you can't afford.

Tuition rates are up because people who are too dumb for college are going to college. When prices rise it is to curtail demand.
 
2012-11-14 09:06:36 AM  

EnviroDude: All you have to do is sign up for the military after graduation. They give you $$$$ and you sign a few years of your life away as an indentured servant. When your time is up, you leave. Now, you are a vet and you get points when job hunting.

It may not pay off all your loans, but you scammed the system by avoiding the ritualistic ROTC and having to walk around campus in the uniforms and passing inspections every week.


/didn't do this because (gasp) I worked a PT job making enough money in the summers and holidays to pay tuition, room, board, books, spending money, etc....

but did have a couple of friends that got a full ride on an Air Force ROTC program.

saw one of my fellow graduates join the Air Force after not being able to find a job. The ROTC guys jaws dropped when they saw that he got the money they got up front.

//was a couple of weeks away from joining before I got a job working offshore


The same people who can't find a job after college were the ones who couldn't go to class because they were busy drinking. So ROTC is definitely out.
 
2012-11-14 09:14:29 AM  

bulldg4life: nburghmatt: how exactly do you forfeit a diploma? do they go into your records and white it out?

They cook your brain at 105 degrees until you can do basic algebra and read at a 12th grade level


Wait, most college graduates can do algebra and read? Who did I go to school with then?
 
2012-11-14 09:28:39 AM  

Soymilk: Elandriel: you can not ever, ever escape them, even through bankruptcy, and in some cases death.

Are you serious? Holy shiat.

I paid off mine a long time ago, but really, until after death? Who do they try to collect from?


You can't borrow a ton of money and die... the debt passes on to your kids.
 
2012-11-14 09:32:22 AM  

Communist_Manifesto: This would sure as shiat help me out and I'm not one of these "snowflakes" I hear so much who took out loans to pay for everything and not work while in college. I worked full time (I was a service technician for a large window and door company theyy let me work 3 12 hour days on monday, wednesday, and friday plus any weekend appointments I could make it to while going to class from 8-6 on tuesday and thursday) while going to school full time and I still had to take out loans. I was able to pay for about 2 years my self but I still have about 13k in debt. I want to choke out every mother farker that says, "Well maybe they should have tried to pay for school themselves". I would have had to give literally like 60% of my income for just tuition. At a STATE SCHOOL. I graduated in 08, I can't even imagine how much more it must cost to go now and it has only been 4 years. I personally think we should make higher education free to all who want it and are able to pass the aptitude tests required to get in to college, but I think that's a bigger pipe dream than a discharge of debt.


No scholarships or financial aid? I mean, bravo for working and all, but if you can't get a scholarship with the billions of free dollars floating around out there...
 
2012-11-14 09:59:17 AM  

kxs401: CujoQuarrel: kxs401: CujoQuarrel: kxs401: I have $900 a month in private student loan bills. My DoE debt is bigger, but more easily manageable. I'm not really sure how I'm ever supposed to start a life, buy a house, have children with this millstone around my neck.

Well, you could have just not borrowed all that money.

I suppose so, but once I started, I felt like I needed a degree to be able to pay off the debt I had already accumulated, which required... taking out more loans.

What did you major in?

I have a BS in Economics.


So your career end game is what, having a tv segment on CNN?

A degree in Economics is only for people who plan on doing grad school and a PhD to become a professor of economics.
 
2012-11-14 11:53:30 AM  
When I was 5 (maybe 6) my dad taught me about loans using an instance where I wanted to buy a candy-bar I did not have the money for.

So at 6 I knew that, 1) when you borrow money you pay it back on a schedule, 2) you pay some interest even if paying on time, 3) you can pay penalties if you don't pay on time.

Six. I knew this when I was six. And now we have a generation of uneducated, really quite stupid in the cow-chewing-the-cud sense, so-called "graduates" who don't know - in their 20's - what I knew at the age of six.

Jesus you f*ckers are stupid. There's no "loan crises" - there's just a bunch of fuctards who apparently never learned you pay back money you borrow.

I think anyone who is in default or behind on student loan payments needs to have that red-stamped into their credit files and not be allowed to buy ANYTHING on credit (from a sweater to a car or home) UNTIL they become current on the loan. Period.

Learn to be adults, people. You can't hide behind mom and dad forever.
 
2012-11-14 12:40:29 PM  

DaCaptain19:
Jesus you f*ckers are stupid. There's no "loan crises" - there's just a bunch of fuctards who apparently never learned you pay back money you borrow.


Don't be cruel. Most people are doing their best to pay it back. They are not lazy or stupid or farktards. An economic/health setback can happen to anyone - remember, there but for the grace of God go you, too.
 
2012-11-14 01:03:32 PM  

CujoQuarrel: Just checked the local Comm College and it's rates still seem reasonable (about 2k a semester) and the local University (about 4k a semester). This is for state residents.

So how did you guys get into so much debt?


There's no point in going to college unless it is on a beach in California or Flordia!!! Where will they have keg parties?
 
2012-11-14 01:05:48 PM  

signaljammer: Regionalism seems to play a role in this. In a first-world American city, 'flipping burgers' just isn't gonna cover the rent.


Only idiots live in cities.
 
2012-11-14 01:07:06 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Noticeably F.A.T.: Fell In Love With a Chair: Get over yourself, kid. You're not too good to make fries.

I can't remember where I read it, but I do remember reading an article that made a whole lot of sense that said that it's really no wonder that there is an entire generation that thinks that it is above flipping burgers because for their entire lives that they are above flipping burgers. "You'd better go to school, you'd better get a degree, you don't want to spend your life flipping burgers, do you?" Now, it's not true and they are going to get a quick reality check, but can you really put to much blame on them for thinking like that when that's the only way they have been taught to think?

I'd flip burgers. I'd flip burgers right now. I'd do it for twelve straight hours. For the love of god, if you know someone who needs burgers flipped, I'll do it. Partly why I can't get hired is because I have literally no burger flipping experience. At 16 I was the IT person/webmaster for a medium sized local business (Mustang Motorcycle Seats, actually). I'd flip every farking burger I swear to god I'm so desperate. I can't even sell my farking jalopy car for enough money to pay this shiat off. I need it though to live in, in case my ex decides she doesn't want me around any longer.


The McDonalds down the street from me has open hiring advertised four days a week. Seems like everyone who works there is black, so I guess they get bused in from the city to work in the suburbs.
 
2012-11-14 01:09:44 PM  

Russky: olddinosaur: No symping farkathy here.

I graduated into the teeth of Nixon's recession with $100 in my pocket, no debts and a 5--year--old car.

There were no jobs for educated people so I had to work for two years as a laborer before I could stack up enough money to leave that dead--end town.

Suck it up crybabies, you make me flucking sick.

Do you honestly think that the debt incurred back then and the price of tuition is even close to the same? Before you answer, tuition has increased at twice the rate of normal inflation since 1970,

Since 1970 tuition and fees at UT have risen for undergraduates, the increase has been around 400 percent. In 1970, tuition was $50 for any in-state student enrolled in any college or school for any number of credit hours. Fees were $54 for anyone enrolled at the University. In the Fall semester of 2002, you won't get a twelve hour course load for less than $2,300.


12 credits? If you aren't taking 18 to 21 credits you're not in a real major.
 
2012-11-14 01:17:45 PM  

odinsposse: signaljammer: 'Flipping burgers' isn't a practical remedy in a country saturated with guest workers, is it?

Also it's hard for someone with a college degree to get a burger flipping job because they're overqualified. They know you will drop them in a second to work in your field (assuming you didn't get a degree in high heat grease dispensing).


So... don't list your degree on your resume.


Did you take a class on critical thinking or problem solving? You probably should have.
 
2012-11-14 01:19:59 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.


Total Fark subscription, no problem!
Internet connection, no problem!
Computer, no problem!


What? No I don't have money to pay my bills. Go away.
 
2012-11-14 01:58:20 PM  
The real problem is that we are telling everyone that they need to go to college.
 
2012-11-14 02:06:43 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: kxs401: Fell In Love With a Chair: HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.

I was told on the phone that I still don't meet the criteria because my cosigner isn't in hardship (they're just estranged/disowned) and since they're private loans apparently I don't qualify for having used a hardship deferral in the past.

If your parents cosigned, they should help you out with the loans. It will negatively affect your parents' credit if the loans aren't paid on time.

You betcha, even if you send those farkers your last $80.

Then they call your folks, they pay $800, call you up screaming and tell you they're going to take you away from your partner, your house, your family, friends and support network, and make you live in their house in the middle of the woods on the complete opposite coast with no car, no possessions, and lots and lots of Jesus to pray the gay away while you get a job "somewhere in town" ten miles away.

Difficulty: no car, no sidewalks, and they're under a foot of snow already. I have decent outdoor survival skills but my mom works for the PD so if I did end up having to make an escape attempt, I wouldn't make it to the main road before I got caught. I have pals in NYC who're ready to come get me back if my partner tells them I went missing out here in CA.


I guess it could be worse, you could be gay. Oh crap, sorry...
 
2012-11-14 02:53:08 PM  

Bullseyed: Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.

Total Fark subscription, no problem!
Internet connection, no problem!
Computer, no problem!
What? No I don't have money to pay my bills. Go away.


Jesus farking christ, I explained it upthread. I live with my ex-girlfriend as a couch surfer, I'm on her computer and internet connection. I SKIPPED EATING to buy TF so I could talk to mechanics in the TFD area about my farking piece of shiat car, you ass.
 
2012-11-14 03:11:53 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Bullseyed: Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.

Total Fark subscription, no problem!
Internet connection, no problem!
Computer, no problem!
What? No I don't have money to pay my bills. Go away.

Jesus farking christ, I explained it upthread. I live with my ex-girlfriend as a couch surfer, I'm on her computer and internet connection. I SKIPPED EATING to buy TF so I could talk to mechanics in the TFD area about my farking piece of shiat car, you ass.


Umm...couch surfer?
 
2012-11-14 03:13:04 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: I gotta step out for a bit.

I love you all so much, and thank you for the support. I needed that. I needed that badly. It's good to remember we're NOT alone, and we know that we try hard no matter what they say. Thank you all for understanding and giving stellar advice, sharing stories, and just listening, because sometimes that's what people need.

Hopefully I can get back to a computer before the thread is up! If not- thank you, thank you, and again, thank you.


Ditto.
 
2012-11-14 04:30:12 PM  
This reminds me of the angry old codgers and naive housewives who demand all their money back from the Franklin Mint.
 
2012-11-14 07:41:13 PM  
i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-14 07:51:29 PM  
If you are willing to go thousands of dollars into debt for a useless degree than perhaps you got what you deserve.
 
2012-11-14 08:22:20 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: God, I'm rude as fark. Thank you so much for getting that info together for me, I'll be calling the Sac County health in the morning (what's the point in holding out for a non-contract job with insurance while my eyes literally need treatment NOW) and check out the career centre in the meanwhile. That was really sweet of you.


No worries mate. I sent you more info to your gmail account. Let me know if you don't receive it.
 
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