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(White House)   In this day of White House petitions, college students petitioning Obama to refund 100% their tuition in trade for their diplomas   (petitions.whitehouse.gov) divider line 335
    More: Fail, White House, obama, diplomas, tuition, petitions  
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9500 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Nov 2012 at 5:20 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-13 07:37:41 PM  

Rye_: Fell In Love With a Chair, just forget about the debt altogether. Change your number. Move. Sallie Mae will go after your folks. Sure, your credit will be in the crapper for a long, long time, but that's gotta be someone else's fault, too. And fark them for not letting you read what you were signing, or giving you time to do a little math before forcing a pen in your hand. Where did they get off, taking advantage of somebody who couldn't think for himself? I'm with you buddy. I hope this all just goes away.


She's being made into a criminal by a system that doesn't account for systemic variations or the vagaries of micro economies.
So she'll have to account for the variations herself.
Might as well act like a criminal in a criminal system, right?
Be a criminal to beat the criminal system.

/Cause it feels good to be a bankster, fark yeah.
//Think I'm being sarcastic? I'm not.
///Because if you're an emotional/psychological wreck, you can't focus on helping yourself or anyone else.

Fark the money lenders. Hard.
 
2012-11-13 07:37:44 PM  
While I feel bad for people who got into debt pre-bubble, how the hell are there still people out there who think six figures of law school debt is a good idea at this juncture? How completely oblivious do you have to be to the state of the world to go into an entire house worth of debt for a degree at this juncture?
 
2012-11-13 07:38:44 PM  

Rye_: HotIgneous Intruder: kxs401: Get a restraining order, if necessary. Just cut them out of your life. Pay the student loans when you're able, but they voluntarily agreed to cosign. Legally, there's nothing they can do to you.

It'll be okay, I promise.

This times ten.
They signed the papers.

Yeah, fark them for trusting him. That's their own fault.

Fell In Love With a Chair, just forget about the debt altogether. Change your number. Move. Sallie Mae will go after your folks. Sure, your credit will be in the crapper for a long, long time, but that's gotta be someone else's fault, too. And fark them for not letting you read what you were signing, or giving you time to do a little math before forcing a pen in your hand. Where did they get off, taking advantage of somebody who couldn't think for himself? I'm with you buddy. I hope this all just goes away.


Your sarcasm is unwarranted. I'm guessing you don't remember what it was like being 17 or maybe you don't have a tiger mom, but going to college and where I went to college wasn't an option. They didn't have me read what I was signing, the sat me down at the kitchen table, gave me a pen, and told me I was going.

When you're 17, that is your whole world. You don't get a choice about what your parents tell you to do, unless you have somewhere else you can go. If I hadn't gone, I probably would have just killed myself instead. I spent every from my 15th birthday counting down til my high school graduation- that was the date I'd be able to leave and never come back. The fact that they presented me with an option that wasn't "cardboard box", you farking bet I signed. I signed every last paper and I'd probably do it again too.

Instead of busting ass and getting that 4.0 while having a part time job, I'd get a 2.0, as close to full time work as I could get, and then I'd quit college and not give my parents my address instead of being their debt slave for the rest of my life.
 
2012-11-13 07:39:07 PM  

radarlove: HotIgneous Intruder: radarlove: Can we have a "looking for work" thread? I'll take pretty much any job that doesn't require me to cut my beard (religious reasons) and is located in Los Alamos. I'll even wear a beard-net if it's food services.

It'd be neat to be able to buy my wife a birthday or Christmas present again. Haven't been able to do that for a few years now.

Los Alamos? Another small-town trap.
The small cities are really small towns with limited options.

Yup. Wife and I were living in Fort Collins, CO until I lost my job and couldn't find another and we ended up going homeless.(DAMN Ft.C is an expensive town to live in). Fortunately, our family here in Los Alamos took us in. UNfortunately, there's nary a job to be had in town, unless you qualify to work at the lab.


Why don't you apply for jobs in Santa Fe or Albuquerque? There are plenty of people who live on the hill and commute to Santa Fe. And Albuquerque is less than a couple of hours away, if I remember right. People in NoVa or Chicagoland do that sort of thing ever day, timewise at least.
 
2012-11-13 07:40:57 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: kxs401: Fell In Love With a Chair: You betcha, even if you send those farkers your last $80.

Then they call your folks, they pay $800, call you up screaming and tell you they're going to take you away from your partner, your house, your family, friends and support network, and make you live in their house in the middle of the woods on the complete opposite coast with no car, no possessions, and lots and lots of Jesus to pray the gay away while you get a job "somewhere in town" ten miles away.

Difficulty: no car, no sidewalks, and they're under a foot of snow already. I have decent outdoor survival skills but my mom works for the PD so if I did end up having to make an escape attempt, I wouldn't make it to the main road before I got caught. I have pals in NYC who're ready to come get me back if my partner tells them I went missing out here in CA.

I'm asking this seriously: how would your parents do that? Your parents cosigned the loans, which means they voluntarily agreed to make the payments if you couldn't. You can't, so it's their responsibility. If I were you, I might consider not taking my parents' phone calls anymore.

Private student loans are f*cking evil.

I've had them on my block list since then. They gave me a week to come up with $800 bucks and I managed $100 that I'm probably going to have to put toward sudden medical expense. However, that won't stop my dad from literally flying out here and pounding on my door until I call the cops. Or my mom mailing me a $500 plane ticket I'll have to refuse. They've threatened me with taking me out to their shack property in vermont (atv storage) and making me do nothing but chop wood and dig rocks for an entire year.

They have really humble origins, my dad was a dirt poor welder working on nuclear subs and my mom was a homebody who couldn't even drive. They didn't have money for food a lot of the time (it was the mid 70s) and their apartment didn't have heat, but they loved eachother and that was good enough. M ...


Just out of curiousity, do you have any local food banks or food shelves you can go to? (You might also find some local charitable organizations that could help you regardless of your religion or sexual orientation. ) I understand how it might be hard to take advantage of these resources if they're too far away or in bad parts of town, but it might be worth looking into. The local food bank in my area asks no questions--it just hands out boxes of food to whomever asks (albeit only once per month.) Some people might be too proud to stoop to asking for this level of help, but hey, if you need it, you need it.

You may also be able to find a local career center (like Sacramentoworks.org) that can help you in writing a resume or provide a database of local employers, give career seeking advice, etc. You might be aware of all of this stuff already, but I've known plenty of unemployed people who could have used the help but were unaware of it.
 
2012-11-13 07:43:27 PM  

WhoGAS: And you said " "I'm selfish and making excuses because I'm reluctant to work an ass-backwards minimum-wage job with no chance for advancement" as told by a generation that got the benefit of that middle class boom and have apparently decided they don't want anyone else to. "

So I was responding to your personal beliefs about those who didn't make it as you did, apparently. I'd rather everyone succeed according to their own definitions.


I ain't made it yet. I'm just tired of listening to mouthbreathers who got the benefit of the greatest middle class expansion in the history of the world, a government that was willing to spend money on infrastructure while taxing its richest to do it, and a private sector which acknowledge half-a-century of worker's rights gains to give people stable jobs and pensions, mouthbreathers who seem to think they got by on hard work and nothing else.
 
2012-11-13 07:43:56 PM  
I gotta step out for a bit.

I love you all so much, and thank you for the support. I needed that. I needed that badly. It's good to remember we're NOT alone, and we know that we try hard no matter what they say. Thank you all for understanding and giving stellar advice, sharing stories, and just listening, because sometimes that's what people need.

Hopefully I can get back to a computer before the thread is up! If not- thank you, thank you, and again, thank you.
 
2012-11-13 07:44:56 PM  
Personal responsibility.

Someone is holding this debt and a good chunk of it belongs to the Federal government, debt held privately would be written down. So at the end of the day the Federal government would either lose capital and revenue which means that tax payers would be on the hook.

Handle it like TARP, buy the debt with a catch. A 10% Federal tax on all income until the debt is paid, interest calculated at the prime rate. They can keep the degree, it will increase their earning power.
 
2012-11-13 07:45:31 PM  
Oh and I'll just leave this here as it seems appropriate:

The Beast That Swallows Its Young
 
2012-11-13 07:51:39 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Rye_: HotIgneous Intruder: kxs401: Get a restraining order, if necessary. Just cut them out of your life. Pay the student loans when you're able, but they voluntarily agreed to cosign. Legally, there's nothing they can do to you.

It'll be okay, I promise.

This times ten.
They signed the papers.

Yeah, fark them for trusting him. That's their own fault.

Fell In Love With a Chair, just forget about the debt altogether. Change your number. Move. Sallie Mae will go after your folks. Sure, your credit will be in the crapper for a long, long time, but that's gotta be someone else's fault, too. And fark them for not letting you read what you were signing, or giving you time to do a little math before forcing a pen in your hand. Where did they get off, taking advantage of somebody who couldn't think for himself? I'm with you buddy. I hope this all just goes away.

Your sarcasm is unwarranted. I'm guessing you don't remember what it was like being 17 or maybe you don't have a tiger mom, but going to college and where I went to college wasn't an option. They didn't have me read what I was signing, the sat me down at the kitchen table, gave me a pen, and told me I was going.

When you're 17, that is your whole world. You don't get a choice about what your parents tell you to do, unless you have somewhere else you can go. If I hadn't gone, I probably would have just killed myself instead. I spent every from my 15th birthday counting down til my high school graduation- that was the date I'd be able to leave and never come back. The fact that they presented me with an option that wasn't "cardboard box", you farking bet I signed. I signed every last paper and I'd probably do it again too.

Instead of busting ass and getting that 4.0 while having a part time job, I'd get a 2.0, as close to full time work as I could get, and then I'd quit college and not give my parents my address instead of being their debt slave for the rest of my life.


I'm sorry for your troubles, but it's difficult to be sympathetic when you take zero responsibility for the position you're in.

I took out a couple of sizable student loans when I was a kid, too. The last one was paid off this year. I'm 39. I'll bet you can wipe out $44k by the time you're 39.
 
2012-11-13 07:54:24 PM  

rumpelstiltskin: Why don't you apply for jobs in Santa Fe or Albuquerque? There are plenty of people who live on the hill and commute to Santa Fe.


Those people have cars. It is a hell of a hike to SF, and an even bigger schlep to ABQ. There is a bus that heads out there, but it only runs in the middle of the day on weedays. You damn well better believe though that if I get a car, job hunting in SF if going to be my life until I find work. Might even find it in my preferred industry if I can get there regularly.

Fell In Love With a Chair: If it comes down to it, joining the military is my last resort. I'll do it, if they'll have me (I have heart problems).


You won't. Tried that for exactly the same reason as you, and got turned away because of my heart problems. Nailed the ASVAB though.

Skywolf Philosopher: I really couldn't imagine how I'd do it if I didn't have the hope my God offers me.


THIS. I know Fark likes to bash on religion a lot, but if I didn't believe in a merciful, just, benevolent, and loving God I'd have blown my brains out years ago. But I do, so I don't, even though the temptation to do so is painfully strong sometimes.

I love you guys.
 
2012-11-13 07:57:54 PM  
Hi, Fell In Love With a Chair

Don't let the guys who mistake this is Fark for "I can be a cruel as I want" get you down

Maybe you ought to tell your parents the next time they call -- lay off or I WILL stick you with the bill
(after taping some of their crap and getting a restraining order.)

Here are some recent salary increases from Network World

That level of an increase usually means they need many more people

When you apply don't forget non-profits and public service
larger Libraries are usually happy to have an IT person on staff


If you have any experience with security or BYOD emphasize that, those positions are gold.

pure certification usually means dick but coursework in theory and 10 years of experience will help a great deal.

1. Mobile applications developer
2012 salary range: $85,000-$122,500
2013 salary range: $92,750-$133,500
Net: 9% increase

2. Wireless network engineer
2012 salary range: $79,250-$108,500
2013 salary range: $85,500-$117,000
Net: 7.9% increase

3. Network engineer
2012 salary range: $75,000-$107,750
2013 salary range: $80,750-$116,250
Net: 7.8% increase

4. Data modeler
2012 salary range: $85,500-$117,750
2013 salary range: $92,000-$126,750
Net: 7.6% increase

5. Portal administrator
2012 salary range: $80,500-$106,500
2013 salary range: $86,500-$114,500
Net: 7.5% increase

6. Data warehouse manager
2012 salary range: $101,250-$135,750
2013 salary range: $108,750-$145,750
Net: 7.4% increase

7. Business intelligence analyst

2012 salary range: $87,750-$123,500
2013 salary range: $94,250-$132,500
Net: 7.3% increase

8. Senior web developer
2012 salary range: $85,750-$118,500
2013 salary range: $92,000-$127,250
Net: 7.3% increase

9. Web developer
2012 salary range: $61,250-$99,250
2013 salary range: $65,750-$106,500
Net: 7.3% increase

10. Network architect
2012 salary range: $95,500-$137,000
2013 salary range: $102,250-$146,500
Net: 7% increase

11. Network manager
2012 salary range: $82,750-$114,500
2013 salary range: $88,500-$122,500
Net: 7% increase

12. Data architect
2012 salary range: $97,500-$134,250
2013 salary range: $104,250-$143,500
Net: 6.9% increase

13. Data security analyst
2012 salary range: $89,000-$121,500
2013 salary range: $95,000-$129,750
Net: 6.8% increase

14. Software engineer
2012 salary range: $78,250-$119,500
2013 salary range: $83,500-$127,750
Net: 6.8% increase

15. Network administrator
2012 salary range: $58,750-$87,250
2013 salary range: $62,750-$93,250
Net: 6.8% increase

best of luck
 
2012-11-13 08:02:13 PM  

Mike_LowELL: WhoGAS: And you said " "I'm selfish and making excuses because I'm reluctant to work an ass-backwards minimum-wage job with no chance for advancement" as told by a generation that got the benefit of that middle class boom and have apparently decided they don't want anyone else to. "

So I was responding to your personal beliefs about those who didn't make it as you did, apparently. I'd rather everyone succeed according to their own definitions.

I ain't made it yet. I'm just tired of listening to mouthbreathers who got the benefit of the greatest middle class expansion in the history of the world, a government that was willing to spend money on infrastructure while taxing its richest to do it, and a private sector which acknowledge half-a-century of worker's rights gains to give people stable jobs and pensions, mouthbreathers who seem to think they got by on hard work and nothing else.


oh, yeah, that's not what i'm saying at all, sorry if that's what you got. I just work hard and try to do the right thing which helps (doesn't hurt) but I am under no illusions that most of this is luck.

but I'm just saying, as advice to others, that it doesn't hurt.
 
2012-11-13 08:03:33 PM  

CujoQuarrel: Forty-Three: CujoQuarrel: Just checked the local Comm College and it's rates still seem reasonable (about 2k a semester) and the local University (about 4k a semester). This is for state residents.

So how did you guys get into so much debt?

4k tuition a semester for a 4 year degree means 32k on tuition alone. Adding books, fees, room and board about doubles that. Typical payment on a 60k plus loan is something in the neighborhodd of $600/month.

It would be a bit better if you frontloaded the first 2 years at community college so it.s
2+2+2+2 then 4+4+4+4 for 24k. You can cut down the number of years by taking extra courses so maybe save 4kish to get it to 20k.


I teach at a state university and can tell you that doing the first half of you degree at a CC solely to save money is not really worth it. If you're going to be a full time student and can get in, it's better to do the whole 4yrs in one place. A large percentage of the transfer students I have seen end up either getting not-so-good grades, having to re-take one or more classes or just learning less over all because the pre-requisites for the upper division classes don't quite match what they took at their last school. Taking more than the normal amount of classes is also usually a bad idea because people who are overworked don't process information very well. Overnighters and caffiene might help you memorize stuff for the test but won't really help you learn anything.

Books prices suck I agree, check into renting from Amazon or getting several friends to take the same course and share a book (used to do that way back when).

This whole textbook rental (and resale, for that matter) thing is a big racket. If you want to use your degree after you graduate keep your textbooks. Even if you don't, or if it's for a non-major class, keep them. They are required for your class (usually) because they are good books. When I was an undergrad, I sold the books for the couple history and literature classes I took because I didn't think I'd need them but ended up regretting it years later and buying new copies because I wanted to read them again.

If possible live at home (I actually lived in my car for six months).

If you happen to live in a town with a public university that has a solid program in your chosen major this is a good idea. Unfortunately, it only applies to a very small number of students.

Eat ramen. Don't party. Don't smoke. Don't drink.

Sort of. Depending on where you go to school you can save a little bit by living off campus in a place that has a kitchen so you can cook for yourself and eat cheaply but then you're on the hook for utilities and transportation. Last time I checked, here my U, a shared room in the dorms and 3 squares a day in the dining hall was about 1k a month. Living off campus here is maybe a hundred bucks cheaper (and that's only if you take a place without indoor plumbing) a month and takes up more of your time than living on campus so the on/off campus choice is mostly a lifestyle choice and makes a small difference financially.

You need to find a job while going to school and something to work at during the summers. Fast food delivery is the best if you can swing it during school. Mowing in the summers.

Most students here work a few hours during the semester and full time in the summer. Unless you hit the job lottery, this will not substantially reduce the cost of the education. The best jobs to get are the work study or research jobs in or related to your major and these usually do not pay very much.

All of these are nice suggestions but will maybe cut a 65k loan down to a 55k loan for most students. Every little bit counts of course, but we're still talking at least $500 a month in loan payments after graduation.
 
2012-11-13 08:04:20 PM  

jgi: I agree with paying back your loans if you agreed to them, from a moral standpoint, but sometimes I feel those morals faltering when I also consider that I feel it amoral to charge as much as schools do to 18 year olds and pile on the interest. It's becoming a grey area for me.


How the fark is it a grey? No one is forcing anyone to pay their tuition rates.

Oh, look, that Mercedes is really nice. Go into debt, over pay for the car and then whine that you can't pay and they charged you too much.
 
2012-11-13 08:04:24 PM  

Rye_: I'm sorry for your troubles, but it's difficult to be sympathetic when you take zero responsibility for the position you're in.


Taking personal responsibility for shiat that genuinely isn't your fault does not make you an upstanding, bootstrappy person. It makes you a doormat and a piece of shiat and it dooms you to always being one.

It sounds to me from what I've read of her posts, that she was forced into a shiatty situation by circumstance.

Now as for me? I made the decision to go to college. I was pressured, sure, but the decision was mine. The decision to leave school in order to avoid living on the streets was mine as well. I accept responsibility for those decisions, but I'd be a schmuck if I bore the responsibility for the circumstances that led to those decisions.
 
2012-11-13 08:04:26 PM  

Blues_X: nekom: Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be

That.


What would this do to make things better? May as well cut out the middle man and just pay for college kids education outright. Let me guess, you are all for that, right? What about middle class people who make too little to afford it, and too much for any aid? Screw them?

Where would there be any incentive to keep college costs down if Uncle Sam just pays anyway?
 
2012-11-13 08:11:54 PM  

radarlove: Taking personal responsibility for shiat that genuinely isn't your fault does not make you an upstanding, bootstrappy person. It makes you a doormat and a piece of shiat and it dooms you to always being one.


Well, sure, if you're able to convince yourself that the position you're in is genuinely not your fault. That's a great out.
 
2012-11-13 08:16:16 PM  

Rye_: radarlove: Taking personal responsibility for shiat that genuinely isn't your fault does not make you an upstanding, bootstrappy person. It makes you a doormat and a piece of shiat and it dooms you to always being one.

Well, sure, if you're able to convince yourself that the position you're in is genuinely not your fault. That's a great out.


From what I've read of her posts, he situation genuinely isn't. Maybe you know something I don't, maybe you're friends with her parents, maybe you're her dad...but I have to take her words at face value.
 
jgi
2012-11-13 08:19:15 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: jgi: I agree with paying back your loans if you agreed to them, from a moral standpoint, but sometimes I feel those morals faltering when I also consider that I feel it amoral to charge as much as schools do to 18 year olds and pile on the interest. It's becoming a grey area for me.

How the fark is it a grey? No one is forcing anyone to pay their tuition rates.

Oh, look, that Mercedes is really nice. Go into debt, over pay for the car and then whine that you can't pay and they charged you too much.


Kids are told by authority figures that they must go to college to get ahead in life. They are told any degree is worthwhile. These ideas aren't true of course, but when the people who hold the most authority in your little world (your parents, your teachers, your counselors, and to some extent the government) are telling you this is what you do, your mind doesn't really question it. Some particularly bright kids do question it and maybe do something else. But to expect every child to weigh the financial consequences of doing what they are told to do is really an absurd notion. In our current culture, the entire institution is becoming a grey area.
 
2012-11-13 08:19:29 PM  

Forty-Three: All of these are nice suggestions but will maybe cut a 65k loan down to a 55k loan for most students. Every little bit counts of course, but we're still talking at least $500 a month in loan payments after graduation.


Your suggestions seem somewhat palid.
Can't put my finger on why.
 
2012-11-13 08:21:34 PM  

Skywolf Philosopher: Ah yes, and this thread, strangely, is therapeutic for me. I normally hang out here for cheap laughs and pub humor, but damn it feels good to know that other folks are 'up in the same snatch' as I am. Car breaking down, struggling to get by, jobs don't want me around, I just get depressed and sigh, 'Why?' I feel like I'm alone sometimes.

/To all the other Farkers simply stuck in a quicksand pit of debt or poverty, y'all have my heartfelt condolences. It's maddening and dispiriting not being able to get by, and I really couldn't imagine how I'd do it if I didn't have the hope my God offers me.


You can NOT petition the lord!
/JM
 
2012-11-13 08:24:54 PM  

knbber2: Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee, to hell with personal responsibility. a man after midnight

 
2012-11-13 08:26:04 PM  

Rye_: radarlove: Taking personal responsibility for shiat that genuinely isn't your fault does not make you an upstanding, bootstrappy person. It makes you a doormat and a piece of shiat and it dooms you to always being one.

Well, sure, if you're able to convince yourself that the position you're in is genuinely not your fault. That's a great out.


Well, this is her fault, but at the same time her parents share a good part of the responsibility for their situation. Nobody held them down and made them cosign the notes.
Actions have consequences.
Their aggression and threats aren't helping payments magically appear.
They're probably inflicting a "life lesson" on their daughter, but these actions, too, will have consequences.
 
2012-11-13 08:31:28 PM  

radarlove: From what I've read of her posts, he situation genuinely isn't.


I read those posts, too. She saw a way out of a home life she didn't like, a way to go to college, accepted the terms, signed the papers, and now doesn't like the terms she agreed to.

I get it: Nobody wants to be $44k in debt, and nobody likes to believe that the choices they made put them there. It's a tough situation, but accept that you're in that situation and work to get yourself out. Stop saying it's not your fault.
 
2012-11-13 08:32:47 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Well, this is her fault, but at the same time her parents share a good part of the responsibility for their situation. Nobody held them down and made them cosign the notes.
Actions have consequences.
Their aggression and threats aren't helping payments magically appear.
They're probably inflicting a "life lesson" on their daughter, but these actions, too, will have consequences.


I agree.
 
2012-11-13 08:38:30 PM  

Rye_: I read those posts, too. She saw a way out of a home life she didn't like, a way to go to college, accepted the terms, signed the papers, and now doesn't like the terms she agreed to.


See, what I read in her posts was that she did what her parents told her to do. I was raised similarly. You either did what your parents told you to do, or you went to the hospital again with another broken bone due to "sibling roughhousing." Maybe I misread, maybe I'm projecting, but I saw her family life as similar to mine. I do what my parents tell me to do.
 
2012-11-13 08:46:15 PM  
I agree on allowing student loan debt to be cleared in Bankruptcy and also have colleges drop pointless majors that do not lead to jobs that could pay back the student loans taken out to pay for the education.

Examples : Philosophy and liberal arts.
 
2012-11-13 08:49:25 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Forty-Three: All of these are nice suggestions but will maybe cut a 65k loan down to a 55k loan for most students. Every little bit counts of course, but we're still talking at least $500 a month in loan payments after graduation.

Your suggestions seem somewhat palid.
Can't put my finger on why.


Eh. It's probably because there isn't much in the way of one-size-fits-all suggestions to give to college students that will magically reduce the average cost of their college education without compromising the quality. Broad answers to questions with few specifics tend to be boring and obvious.
 
2012-11-13 08:53:38 PM  

radarlove: Rye_: I read those posts, too. She saw a way out of a home life she didn't like, a way to go to college, accepted the terms, signed the papers, and now doesn't like the terms she agreed to.

See, what I read in her posts was that she did what her parents told her to do. I was raised similarly. You either did what your parents told you to do, or you went to the hospital again with another broken bone due to "sibling roughhousing." Maybe I misread, maybe I'm projecting, but I saw her family life as similar to mine. I do what my parents tell me to do.


Like pay your debts?

Listen, she can either pay what she owes or leave it to her folks to take care of. If she's ok with whatever consequences come from the latter, who am I to argue? Sounds like they don't get along, anyway.
 
2012-11-13 08:58:27 PM  

WhoGAS: Mike_LowELL: WhoGAS: I can't say that working a minimum wage job will start you on the path to "success" but I can definitely say that sticking to your values, looking out for others and thinking about the big picture outside your own selfish world will get you further than you believe. But it has to be genuine...you have to change yourself for real, not just go through the motions.

My only advice as an "older american" is that hard work and focusing on the positive will get you further in life than where you are now. No big promises of riches, but it won't hurt to get rid of the excuses with which you hold yourself back.

"Politicians and businessmen spend the last thirty years systematically destroying the social safety nets that led to the largest middle class boom in the history of the world" equals "I'm selfish and making excuses because I'm reluctant to work an ass-backwards minimum-wage job with no chance for advancement" as told by a generation that got the benefit of that middle class boom and have apparently decided they don't want anyone else to.

Got it.

I don't understand what you're trying to convey.

I don't agree with your viewpoint of yourself saying that "you're selfish and you're making excuses" because that's just a bad attitude to have in life.

And why wouldn't you want others to enjoy the benefit of what you got? That's silly. Why wouldn't you want people to succeed as you did?


Technically the more success others have, the less yours is worth.
 
2012-11-13 08:58:39 PM  
For the record, I'm not saying I'm not culpable, and I HAVE been paying them down. When I have a job, this isn't an issue so much (okay... $500/mo is a bit to handle sometimes) and I've always done everything I could to keep it off my parent's back. I'm saying 17 is a bad age to decide whether or not you want to be in debt for the next 15 years, and that if you stumble, Sallie Mae is completely ruthless. farking me into bankruptcy and going after my parents is NOT how to get money out of me.

I think educating teenagers on debt management while still in highschool and helping them make educated choices (regardless of of "you're going, sign here") would really help students out later in life.


I'm still on the hook, I'm still paying.... they just have no options to offer an unemployed person with zero income, which sucks. I sent them $80, they called me ten times a day. Ain't got nothin left to give.

/Back and catching up on the thread!
 
2012-11-13 09:02:26 PM  

Mike_LowELL: WhoGAS: And you said " "I'm selfish and making excuses because I'm reluctant to work an ass-backwards minimum-wage job with no chance for advancement" as told by a generation that got the benefit of that middle class boom and have apparently decided they don't want anyone else to. "

So I was responding to your personal beliefs about those who didn't make it as you did, apparently. I'd rather everyone succeed according to their own definitions.

I ain't made it yet. I'm just tired of listening to mouthbreathers who got the benefit of the greatest middle class expansion in the history of the world, a government that was willing to spend money on infrastructure while taxing its richest to do it, and a private sector which acknowledge half-a-century of worker's rights gains to give people stable jobs and pensions, mouthbreathers who seem to think they got by on hard work and nothing else.


Unfortunately most people can be replaced with a Perl script.
 
2012-11-13 09:03:26 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: For the record, I'm not saying I'm not culpable, and I HAVE been paying them down. When I have a job, this isn't an issue so much (okay... $500/mo is a bit to handle sometimes) and I've always done everything I could to keep it off my parent's back. I'm saying 17 is a bad age to decide whether or not you want to be in debt for the next 15 years, and that if you stumble, Sallie Mae is completely ruthless. farking me into bankruptcy and going after my parents is NOT how to get money out of me.

I think educating teenagers on debt management while still in highschool and helping them make educated choices (regardless of of "you're going, sign here") would really help students out later in life.

I'm still on the hook, I'm still paying.... they just have no options to offer an unemployed person with zero income, which sucks. I sent them $80, they called me ten times a day. Ain't got nothin left to give.

/Back and catching up on the thread!


Best of luck to you!
 
2012-11-13 09:21:44 PM  

signaljammer: Another country that is able to scrape by in the dark while providing free college: Germany.


They also have that pesky two years of federal service thing.
 
2012-11-13 09:29:05 PM  

signaljammer: Another country that is able to scrape by in the dark while providing free college: Germany.


I think you mean no money out of pocket. No such thing as free. It's paid for somehow!
 
2012-11-13 09:30:54 PM  
Hung out at a gas station with the illegals to pick up landscaping work.
Worked muultiple jobs below minimum wage
Have $250,000 in student loan debt.

Thinks the trophy generation is a bunch of entitled whiners.
 
2012-11-13 09:35:20 PM  

jnapier: Hung out at a gas station with the illegals to pick up landscaping work.
Worked muultiple jobs below minimum wage
Have $250,000 in student loan debt.

Thinks the trophy generation is a bunch of entitled whiners.


Ummmmmmm...I don't really think I'm entitled to jack shiat except for a peaceful death that doesn't fark over anyone else, but you are MOST DEFINITELY entitled to a minimum wage. If you work for less than that, you are perpetuating a system that screws over EVERYONE.
 
2012-11-13 09:43:39 PM  

propasaurus: Courtesy of @IowaHawkBlog, great thinker of our time

fark you, you self-aggrandizing, entitled little shiatstain.

Oh, wait. He's not a whiny little recent grad. He's a grown-ass man with 2 kids and a blog that links to the entire constellation of right-wing nut jobbery.

fark you, you teatard shiatstain.


I'm quite certain he would be flattered that his humble website, filled with ideas you apparently cannot comprehend without bursting into tears, has ruined your day (life?).

Awesome.
 
2012-11-13 10:00:11 PM  
I could have went to school for free but partying made me drop out after 4 semesters. Fast forward 10 years and I'm still paying off the loans I stupidly maxed out for cash in pocket each semester. I wish I had stayed in and just let grants pay for almost everything but going back now seems like a really bad idea with tuition seemingly at least doubling in the last 10 years and the market being seriously flooded with people with degrees having trouble finding work.

I really do feel for kids pretty much having go in huge debt right out of hichschool just because college is just like any other greed driven business. How else would you explain such a rise is costs for something that is mostly intellectual and not a commodity?
 
2012-11-13 10:03:25 PM  

ds615: How about if we just stop offering student loans?

/ no, really.


Well then less people would be able to go to college and it may result in a drop in tuition. Personally my student loans go to paying for housing and food as tuition is covered 100% by grants and scholarship type items. I have 3 AA degrees and yet I don't get call backs from places actively hiring at minimum wage. Plenty of previous job experience but advanced soldering, computer programming and IT work apparently don't rub Safeway the right way.
 
2012-11-13 10:12:50 PM  

SuperDuper28: I could have went to school for free but partying made me drop out after 4 semesters. Fast forward 10 years and I'm still paying off the loans I stupidly maxed out for cash in pocket each semester. I wish I had stayed in and just let grants pay for almost everything but going back now seems like a really bad idea with tuition seemingly at least doubling in the last 10 years and the market being seriously flooded with people with degrees having trouble finding work.

I really do feel for kids pretty much having go in huge debt right out of hichschool just because college is just like any other greed driven business. How else would you explain such a rise is costs for something that is mostly intellectual and not a commodity?


Fancy gyms, residence halls that will be nicer than your first apartment out of school, things like that.
Also the fact that the states have been steadily cutting the funding they used to give the universities, so they have to make up the shortfall somewhere, at least that's how I understand it.

/Back in school at a state U in the southwest
//3030.40 per semester, still haven't seen the inside of the rec center or the fancy new residence halls
///Too old for that stuff
 
2012-11-13 10:35:06 PM  

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: I'm down to minimum wage, and still have trouble finding work. There's no way to lower my standards further. And when you can get work, they know you're desperate. Last job I had at $7.50/hr had me getting up at 3:30 in the morning and basically being completely responsible for $200,000+ in merchandise for 8-14 hours that day. Complain and you can GTFO. Minor farkup, you can GTFO. Looking at doing federal time if anything goes missing. Required CLEAN criminal history and MVR, drug screen, all that jazz.

For a minimum wage job. IF you can get it.

This guy gets it. I know my wife doesn't need me. I haven't had a "real" job in over five years now. She's been paying the bills, basically by herself. You have to be here to understand our kind of desperation. But I put on the optimistic face, keep sending resumes and filling out shiatty online apps. Swearing profusely every time that phone call turned out to be a telemarketer or bill collector or student loan collector instead of someone with some paying work. shiat sucks, and times are desperate as hell, but I still try.

If I wasn't a damned good father and one hell of a cook, I'd likely have been out on my ass years ago.

/two cents
//still happy with what I got


I'm in the same boat. Stuck in Huntsville, Alabama after getting my two-year at CC in Seattle. Thought I was doing the right thing by moving here to help my parents. But even in-state tuition is too much when you can't find any work!
 
2012-11-13 10:36:59 PM  

radarlove: jnapier: Hung out at a gas station with the illegals to pick up landscaping work.
Worked muultiple jobs below minimum wage
Have $250,000 in student loan debt.

Thinks the trophy generation is a bunch of entitled whiners.

Ummmmmmm...I don't really think I'm entitled to jack shiat except for a peaceful death that doesn't fark over anyone else, but you are MOST DEFINITELY entitled to a minimum wage. If you work for less than that, you are perpetuating a system that screws over EVERYONE.


Try being a waiter. Unless you live in a larger city, you are SCREWED. And for the record, it seems like a lot of pople are in similar situations...
 
2012-11-13 11:01:19 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: For the record, I'm not saying I'm not culpable, and I HAVE been paying them down. When I have a job, this isn't an issue so much (okay... $500/mo is a bit to handle sometimes) and I've always done everything I could to keep it off my parent's back. I'm saying 17 is a bad age to decide whether or not you want to be in debt for the next 15 years, and that if you stumble, Sallie Mae is completely ruthless. farking me into bankruptcy and going after my parents is NOT how to get money out of me.

I think educating teenagers on debt management while still in highschool and helping them make educated choices (regardless of of "you're going, sign here") would really help students out later in life.

I'm still on the hook, I'm still paying.... they just have no options to offer an unemployed person with zero income, which sucks. I sent them $80, they called me ten times a day. Ain't got nothin left to give.

/Back and catching up on the thread!


If you're willing to slum it until you find better, may I suggest the Starbucks at harbor point (off the 80)? Always hiring because it's 24 hrs. It will sap your spirit, but hey, DOLLAH DOLLAH BILLS!

/At least I feel like a read that you were in Sac somewhere in this thread
 
2012-11-14 12:11:46 AM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Even with a bachelor's degree, 10+ years of experience in my field (IT/Networking), clean drug/background/dmv screens, a willingness to work for just barely above minimum wage, and I'm STILL having a hard time finding work. Meanwhile Sallie Mae wants $500 a month. My income is next to nothing, I do art commissions for $10-20 bucks a pop. I'll do literally anything legal for money, $500/mo is more than my rent by a fair share. I live with my ex-girlfriend. She pays my rent still. I don't know why.


Part of it is location. Where I'm at we cannot find enough GOOD IT people. Pay isn't great, but it's pretty darn good. An entry level web dev is going to make 60+. With 10 years of experience you should easily be in the 80-90 range. Once again it's about where you're located and how hot the IT industry is there. The one downside here is if you've been unemployed for a substantial amount of time. The company I used to contract for could not find enough people for the work.

//Central Ohio
 
2012-11-14 12:38:34 AM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.

I was told on the phone that I still don't meet the criteria because my cosigner isn't in hardship (they're just estranged/disowned) and since they're private loans apparently I don't qualify for having used a hardship deferral in the past.


Move to the Dakotas. They have plenty of jobs.

Or go overseas and teach English.
 
2012-11-14 12:43:54 AM  

knbber2: Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee, to hell with personal responsibility.


Attitude reflects leadership.
 
2012-11-14 12:55:05 AM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.


You were probably raised to believe that using welfare or social services of any kind is somehow shameful.
It's not. The reason we have those services is so that they're there when you need it, like now.
In Sacramento, here are some resources to tide you over:
Sacramento One Stop Career Center (job leads, interview practice, all free - and they may have paid on-the-job-training programs too, but each center varies) Link
Find a location in Sacramento County where you can enroll in health care by calling (916) 874-2072 or Healthy Families and MediCal (800) 880-5305
Find out how you can apply for assistance Link
 
2012-11-14 01:02:45 AM  

Ponzholio: Because of the inability of recent college graduates to find gainful employment in order to repay their college debt, and since this college debt cannot be eliminated in bankruptcy, and most of the recent additions to the job market have been in service related industries, the Obama administration should take up the cause of reducing college debt and hold those accountable responsible.

And who, pray tell, is accountable for YOUR debt?


According to my current state law, if I go AWOL or die, my spouse.

/which is completely bs law by the way.
//house always wins apparently.
 
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