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(White House)   In this day of White House petitions, college students petitioning Obama to refund 100% their tuition in trade for their diplomas   (petitions.whitehouse.gov) divider line 335
    More: Fail, White House, obama, diplomas, tuition, petitions  
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9504 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Nov 2012 at 5:20 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-13 06:21:17 PM  
I'm working for a degree in IT and have a research job at my university, so I'm getting a real kick...

/$20 says there are a lot of journalism students on that list.
 
2012-11-13 06:21:23 PM  

nekom: I'd go a step further. Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be. You have no idea how many people this would help.

Oh, and I went to college WITHOUT any loans, so I am more than entitled to this opinion. Let 'em BK7 them, it's not without its consequences. Some people are absolutely CRIPPLED by this. Yes, there is the personal responsibility angle, but how many 18 year old kids are really capable of making a decision that can literally haunt them for the rest of their lives? Give them a break, a way out. The whole system is crap.


I don't disagree that there is a problem with school, and the loan system...


The problem is that I can easily imagine an entire wave of students taking out huge student loans (every last possible penny) and credit cards, and car loans, and whatever else for 4 years.... graduating, then filing for bankruptcy at age 21 or 22 (so long and thanks for all the fish) to discharge it all. How many 21 year olds care that their credit is in the 500s or they can't get a mortgage for 5-7 years?
 
2012-11-13 06:21:36 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.


Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.
 
2012-11-13 06:21:48 PM  

Spanky_McFarksalot: knbber2: Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee, to hell with personal responsibility.

sounds to me like a whinny republican trying to make a point.

and failing as they usually do


Excellent retort.
 
2012-11-13 06:22:46 PM  

olddinosaur: No symping farkathy here.

I graduated into the teeth of Nixon's recession with $100 in my pocket, no debts and a 5--year--old car.

There were no jobs for educated people so I had to work for two years as a laborer before I could stack up enough money to leave that dead--end town.

Suck it up crybabies, you make me flucking sick.


$550 in the pocket (equivalent to $100 in 1972 dollars), no debt, an old car, and steady work as a shiat-shoveler would be a considerable step up for a lot of people coming out of school these days. Some folks I know and care about are in worse situations than Fell In Love with a Chair up above. Comments like yours only show how out-of-touch the boomer generation is with the problems of young people trying to gain more than a tenuous foothold. The system as it is is farked, and attitudes like yours are not helping.


And for the record, I have a ~$1,600 monthly law school loan payment that I pay in full and then some every month - a ten-year note that I should have killed in 6 or so at the rate I'm going. So I'll tell you in advance not to waste your breath on the lectures about responsibility.
 
2012-11-13 06:22:53 PM  

brittmule:
Sallie Mae is a bunch of dicks, and it sounds like your parents are too.

That being said, if you have 10 years in IT experience, I'd be interested in seeing your resume. My company is hiring a bunch of IT folks in the next year. No guarantees, of course, but I'd like to help if I can.


Holy shiat! That's amazing- anything helps, and in this industry networking is extremely important in times like these. I'll email you ASAP.
 
2012-11-13 06:24:23 PM  

Blues_X: nekom: Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be

That.



What? And lose out on a generation of indentured servants?
 
2012-11-13 06:25:38 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: KidneyStone: Looks at profile....how about you get a haircut and take the shiat out of your face and ears and then look for a job,

Hey, guess what? That's what I look like in my FREE TIME. When I am on the job, I dress and style like a BUSINESS PROFESSIONAL. Thanks for looking at me in my pjs with my kitty and making baseless assumptions. I'm gonna go ahead and guess you're a dickweed, how'd that feel?


Hey wait.
She's busted broke but can afford Total Fark so that we mere liters can't see her profile, which is apparently hideous?

The irony is rather delicious.
 
2012-11-13 06:25:41 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.


Only if the loans are federal. She says they're private debt, which is much, much worse. They won't work with you like the DoE servicers will, and the loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.
 
2012-11-13 06:26:39 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.


I was told on the phone that I still don't meet the criteria because my cosigner isn't in hardship (they're just estranged/disowned) and since they're private loans apparently I don't qualify for having used a hardship deferral in the past.
 
2012-11-13 06:26:58 PM  

Russky: olddinosaur: No symping farkathy here.

I graduated into the teeth of Nixon's recession with $100 in my pocket, no debts and a 5--year--old car.

There were no jobs for educated people so I had to work for two years as a laborer before I could stack up enough money to leave that dead--end town.

Suck it up crybabies, you make me flucking sick.

Do you honestly think that the debt incurred back then and the price of tuition is even close to the same? Before you answer, tuition has increased at twice the rate of normal inflation since 1970,

Since 1970 tuition and fees at UT have risen for undergraduates, the increase has been around 400 percent. In 1970, tuition was $50 for any in-state student enrolled in any college or school for any number of credit hours. Fees were $54 for anyone enrolled at the University. In the Fall semester of 2002, you won't get a twelve hour course load for less than $2,300.


When I graduated from the UT system (Midwestern State) in 1972, payout was about $125/semester and jobs paying $120--$1.50 an hour were available if you didn't mind eating sh*t with a smile on your face.

When I got fired from Halliburton in 1974, I was heavily in debt and went on a refinery turnaround for $9.50 an hour, 12 hrs a day 7 days a week. That lasted 3 weeks and paid slightly under $3000 in 1974 money. It wiped out all my debts with a little left over.

You're right it is somewhat harder for young people today, but the money is out there if you look.
 
2012-11-13 06:27:11 PM  

Amos Quito: What? And lose out on a generation of indentured servants?


Even the CSS was concerned about being outnumbered by its slaves.
 
jgi
2012-11-13 06:27:12 PM  

Gyrfalcon: jgi: Serious question: if you don't pay back your student loans, the government can garnish your wages. What happens if you're self-employed, freelance, own your own business?

Serious answer: They can put a lien on any future property you may own, your business profits, etc. So that if in the future you sell your business, for instance, they have a right to whatever your share would have been before you get anything. Or if you were buying a house and someday hoped to sell it, there's going to be a judgment lien on it before the bank gets any. Stuff like that.


Okay, and if you go the mafia route and put nothing (or very little) in your own name? I'm only asking to get a grasp on what the government could actually do. You're speaking in hypotheticals -- "you buy a house and someday hope to sell it." What if you buy a house and never plan to sell it? What if you don't sell your business? You're not going to prison for not paying. It's not the same as screwing over the IRS and getting busted for tax evasion.

I was recently at a friend's house and happened to see a student loan letter on the counter (it was out in the open) and read a little bit of it. It seems to me she stopped paying and they were offering her a hugely discounted rate just to get her to pay something. I think this was a private company (the school's name was on the letter, actually), though, not the federal government. Anyway, this friend is a bartender and as such I'm guessing earns most of her money in cash. While I wouldn't want to be in her shoes, I found myself wondering just what could be done to you if you decided to not pay and construct your life in a way that would make it difficult for anybody to collect.

I had a boss one time (small business) who, when I asked what she thought about paying student loans, she said to just not pay them. Maybe she was just being capricious at the time when I asked and has since paid hers, but her business has been hugely successful and as far as I can tell has found herself in even greater financial success. You run your own show, live a certain way, and avoid paying the loans.

I agree with paying back your loans if you agreed to them, from a moral standpoint, but sometimes I feel those morals faltering when I also consider that I feel it amoral to charge as much as schools do to 18 year olds and pile on the interest. It's becoming a grey area for me. Not to bring politics into it too much, but if a serious presidential candidate can get away with not paying taxes through various loopholes and constructing his life in such a way that it's possible, why can't the little guy save himself some money through a bit of financial jujitsu?
 
2012-11-13 06:27:28 PM  
http://blog.al.com/breaking/2012/11/alabama_computer_student_pays.htm l

Young Huntsville-area computer scientist Jonathan Hood went a different way. Hood paid most of his Auburn tuition - almost $4,000 -- with rebates from on-line shopping. "Probably 200 or 300 of them," he said Monday.

"Not all of them were debit cards," Hood said. But a lot of them - more than 100 - were debit cards loaded with rebate money. The cards arrived in Hood's mailbox after he found his own way to turn brain power and effort into the cash to pay for a Phd in computer science from Auburn.
 
2012-11-13 06:27:47 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: KidneyStone: Looks at profile....how about you get a haircut and take the shiat out of your face and ears and then look for a job,

Hey, guess what? That's what I look like in my FREE TIME. When I am on the job, I dress and style like a BUSINESS PROFESSIONAL. Thanks for looking at me in my pjs with my kitty and making baseless assumptions. I'm gonna go ahead and guess you're a dickweed, how'd that feel?

Hey wait.
She's busted broke but can afford Total Fark so that we mere liters can't see her profile, which is apparently hideous?

The irony is rather delicious.


I skipped eating for two days so I could ask a question in TFD about wether or not I was getting ripped off at the mechanic. I have it budgeted so I can eat for $2/day right now, but I'm probably going to have to cut back soon.
 
2012-11-13 06:28:12 PM  

kxs401: Only if the loans are federal. She says they're private debt, which is much, much worse. They won't work with you like the DoE servicers will, and the loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.


She said Sallie Mae is holding the loans. Sallie Mae holds my loans and so I know what's possible with Sallie Mae. Am I somehow wrong about that?
 
2012-11-13 06:29:00 PM  
Learn to weld, and join a union. You'll be able to pay off those pesky loans in no time. You'll make ALOT more then flipping burgers.
 
2012-11-13 06:29:03 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.

I was told on the phone that I still don't meet the criteria because my cosigner isn't in hardship (they're just estranged/disowned) and since they're private loans apparently I don't qualify for having used a hardship deferral in the past.


If your parents cosigned, they should help you out with the loans. It will negatively affect your parents' credit if the loans aren't paid on time.
 
2012-11-13 06:29:07 PM  

Miss Stein: In an alternate universe, BYU coeds petition President Romney to refund 100% of their tuition in trade for husbands.


Keyboard. You owe me one.
 
2012-11-13 06:29:35 PM  
They paid their tuitions to Obama? Idiots don't deserve a diploma.
 
2012-11-13 06:30:38 PM  

Shyla: They paid their tuitions to Obama? Idiots don't deserve a diploma.

Location: Kentucky


Argument destroyed. Please delete your account before the Feds take action.
 
2012-11-13 06:30:52 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: kxs401: Only if the loans are federal. She says they're private debt, which is much, much worse. They won't work with you like the DoE servicers will, and the loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.

She said Sallie Mae is holding the loans. Sallie Mae holds my loans and so I know what's possible with Sallie Mae. Am I somehow wrong about that?


Sallie Mae service both federally-owned and privately-owned loans. What kinds of deferments and forebearances and how many you can get are determined by who owns the loan (with some variation among servicers).

I briefly worked for one of the four federal student loan servicers.
 
2012-11-13 06:31:04 PM  
Wait.... liters can't see my profile? O_o I'll go check some settings, I guess. I'm not hideous, I'm just not gussied up in the pictures. Makeup costs money. I'm told I clean up well, however, and obviously don't wear piercings to work because that would be farking stupid.
 
2012-11-13 06:31:17 PM  
I have to wonder, are student loans being "bundled" and bought and sold as commodities like sub-prime mortgages of a few rears back?

Goldman?

AIG?
 
2012-11-13 06:31:20 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: I_Hate_Iowa: I saw a flyer on a lamp post here in Minneapolis with some garbage about "unfair student loans" and getting Obama to do something about them. Shut up, idiots. No one forced you to take anything. Shut up and pay what you owe. That being said, if they succeeded in some fantasy world, you bet your ass I'd get in on that. I guess I'm the Ron Paul of student loan forgiveness. But the people screaming "Student loans are immoral" and shiat like that are dumbfarks.

fark you.


I understand the sentiment. I came on strong and didn't quite explain myself. You obviously are having a rough go at it. But I know people here who have jobs and can pay their loans and still biatch that they shouldn't have to do that. Those are the assholes I want to shut up. Sorry.
 
2012-11-13 06:31:46 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.

I was told on the phone that I still don't meet the criteria because my cosigner isn't in hardship (they're just estranged/disowned) and since they're private loans apparently I don't qualify for having used a hardship deferral in the past.


I see. The cosiger part was the mistake.
Sorry.
 
2012-11-13 06:32:14 PM  
Another country that is able to scrape by in the dark while providing free college: Germany.
 
2012-11-13 06:32:29 PM  
/cosigner, i mean.
 
2012-11-13 06:32:47 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Primum: Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.

Have you looked into IBR? aka Income-Based Repayment: http://www.ibrinfo.org/

Or are your lender(s) not public? I transferred my Stafford loans to DirectLoan (Federal) and then started the IBR plan. This is relatively new stuff (thanks Obama!). If you do IBR and make all payments, which can be very low or even zero if you don't work or have a crap job, they will forgive the remaining after 20 (25?) years of payments. If you get a job with a nonprofit, govt, or school, you can also get Public Service Loan Forgiveness, where it's 10 years.

/not intended as professional advice

Any advice is welcome, I literally have people threatening to abduct me over this and have nothing left to sell. I have private loans from Sallie Mae, and paid off my first year with some kind of grant because I managed to maintain a 4.0. I wish I hadn't let my parents handle it. I wish I'd know that I was farking up the rest of my life to the point of no escape. I can't even kill myself to get out of this debt, it'd just go back on my parents.

Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.


Uh, is that you in your profile pic? Cut your hair, take out the facial piercings, and cover the tats when you go on a job interview. I don't care what you're applying for or how much you want to stick it to "the man", when you go for an interview you need to look like White Bread America.

Update your resume. What have you been doing since you got out of school? Got any professional references? Your parents, friends and buds from college won't cut it anymore. You need somebody who works in the field, and ideally someone with more than 10 years on the job. Got letters of reference? If not, get some pronto. Make sure you put in any relevant volunteer work--it's better than having to explain three years of sitting on your ass.

Call Sallie Mae, and don't talk to anyone who isn't an actual American person who works in the US. Tell them what's going on. Have you used up your unemployment deferments? Ask about making interest-only payments if you can't get full deferments. Ask about income-based payments. Tell them you're not working and tell them you'll pay what you can. Don't let them scare you: Remember, you can't go to prison for non-payment and they can't threaten you with anything. Record your conversations. If they start harassing you, tell them to stop. If they don't, send them a "cease and desist" letter. Even Sallie Mae has to obey such a letter, as long as it contains the words "cease and desist". Sometimes just threatening to do so will work--it did for me.

Above all, stay in contact with them. Don't just blow off the letters and phone calls. Get the name of your account handler, and talk to THAT PERSON, no one else. Don't let them put you through to various call centers and offices. Deal with one person, not sixteen. Keep all your paperwork in order, or if you do it all online, print everything and keep it filed.

The worst that can happen is that they take you to court, get a judgment against you and put liens on any future property you own; this will f*ck your credit rating for the rest of your life, but will otherwise not impact your life. It is not illegal to be unable to pay a judgment (although it is illegal to REFUSE to pay one if you are able to do so). And it IS illegal to harass you if you have indicated you cannot pay and have made honest and reasonable efforts to communicate with your creditors. So don't give up.
 
2012-11-13 06:33:29 PM  

I_Hate_Iowa: Fell In Love With a Chair: I_Hate_Iowa: I saw a flyer on a lamp post here in Minneapolis with some garbage about "unfair student loans" and getting Obama to do something about them. Shut up, idiots. No one forced you to take anything. Shut up and pay what you owe. That being said, if they succeeded in some fantasy world, you bet your ass I'd get in on that. I guess I'm the Ron Paul of student loan forgiveness. But the people screaming "Student loans are immoral" and shiat like that are dumbfarks.

fark you.

I understand the sentiment. I came on strong and didn't quite explain myself. You obviously are having a rough go at it. But I know people here who have jobs and can pay their loans and still biatch that they shouldn't have to do that. Those are the assholes I want to shut up. Sorry.


The problem is, the easy availability of student loans has allowed college costs to get out of control, and college degrees are increasingly crucial. An individual student is in a tough spot -- we need jobs, which means we need loans.
 
2012-11-13 06:34:16 PM  

Ego edo infantia cattus: Might be a stupid question, but at least it's an honest one: when was the last time a petition on the federal level actually changed anything? I seem to recall the Bush administration turning away petitions in droves, basically rendering them pointless.


Got the White House Homebrew recipe released, iirc
 
2012-11-13 06:34:59 PM  
That makes no farking sense!!
 
2012-11-13 06:35:07 PM  

vygramul: I'm going to start a petition to end these stupid-ass petitions.


I'd sign it, but i'm against petitions.
 
2012-11-13 06:35:14 PM  

Amos Quito: I have to wonder, are student loans being "bundled" and bought and sold as commodities like sub-prime mortgages of a few rears back?

Goldman?

AIG?


If so, those bonds are triple-platinumAAAA rated.
Being as they are based on bond servitude.
 
2012-11-13 06:35:30 PM  

Elandriel: the only way to get that piece of paper is to place yourself in the amount of debt similar to a goddamn home mortgage.


SUNY-Binghamton has an annual in-state tuition + fees of ~$7,500.

After Pell, etc., I'd like to see the home we're talking about here. What, is it a foreclosure in Detroit, full of meth addict squatters busily stripping the wiring and pipes?

Knock off your general education at community college and you should be in the range of a fairly humble new car, tops. A Hyundai, maybe.
 
2012-11-13 06:36:49 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Even with a bachelor's degree, 10+ years of experience in my field (IT/Networking), clean drug/background/dmv screens, a willingness to work for just barely above minimum wage, and I'm STILL having a hard time finding work.


Have you considered a career in killbots?
The makers of killbots are hiring and very much like having women employees.

You may have to relocate.
 
2012-11-13 06:37:33 PM  

kxs401: Fell In Love With a Chair: HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.

I was told on the phone that I still don't meet the criteria because my cosigner isn't in hardship (they're just estranged/disowned) and since they're private loans apparently I don't qualify for having used a hardship deferral in the past.

If your parents cosigned, they should help you out with the loans. It will negatively affect your parents' credit if the loans aren't paid on time.


You betcha, even if you send those farkers your last $80.

Then they call your folks, they pay $800, call you up screaming and tell you they're going to take you away from your partner, your house, your family, friends and support network, and make you live in their house in the middle of the woods on the complete opposite coast with no car, no possessions, and lots and lots of Jesus to pray the gay away while you get a job "somewhere in town" ten miles away.

Difficulty: no car, no sidewalks, and they're under a foot of snow already. I have decent outdoor survival skills but my mom works for the PD so if I did end up having to make an escape attempt, I wouldn't make it to the main road before I got caught. I have pals in NYC who're ready to come get me back if my partner tells them I went missing out here in CA.
 
2012-11-13 06:38:18 PM  

Mike_LowELL: They want OBEDIENT WORKERS. OBEDIENT WORKERS. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passably accept all these increasingly shiattier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime, and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it


Mike_LowELL: But please, older America, continue to lecture people on how taking a minimum wage job is eventually going to get people to the promised land. Because it's not.


Quoting the relevant parts.

I think I'm considered older america...I dunno. I'm 40.

I'm making a six figure income with stock and bonuses and have been for quite some time. If you look at my yearly SS statement, you'll see my income, with the exception of two years (unemployed for 8 months), my salary has only gone up.

Money, however, is not my measure of success and it never was and I'm starting to wonder if THAT is the attitude that got me where I am today.

I can't say that working a minimum wage job will start you on the path to "success" but I can definitely say that sticking to your values, looking out for others and thinking about the big picture outside your own selfish world will get you further than you believe. But it has to be genuine...you have to change yourself for real, not just go through the motions.

I'm not religious but that character is what I attribute to my success; however you define it.

My only advice as an "older american" is that hard work and focusing on the positive will get you further in life than where you are now. No big promises of riches, but it won't hurt to get rid of the excuses with which you hold yourself back.

/I do not have student loans
//I am not blind to the fact that everyone's lives are different
///One note: I literally grew up dirt floor poor. Seriously, my house growing up in Texas had a dirt floor until we could afford a trailer. That's where I started my life...I would gladly tell my whole story but only as advice; your life is different.
 
2012-11-13 06:40:01 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: brittmule:
Sallie Mae is a bunch of dicks, and it sounds like your parents are too.

That being said, if you have 10 years in IT experience, I'd be interested in seeing your resume. My company is hiring a bunch of IT folks in the next year. No guarantees, of course, but I'd like to help if I can.

Holy shiat! That's amazing- anything helps, and in this industry networking is extremely important in times like these. I'll email you ASAP.


Sweet! I'll try to put in some referrals tomorrow. Just make sure your name, address, etc is there.

Annnnnd now I sound like a stalker.
 
2012-11-13 06:40:16 PM  

ongbok: CujoQuarrel: Just checked the local Comm College and it's rates still seem reasonable (about 2k a semester) and the local University (about 4k a semester). This is for state residents.

So how did you guys get into so much debt?

out of state or private schools. And some people think spending 2 years at a CC makes you a failure.


Not only that, but 4k for a State University is JUST tuition. When I was in college at a SUNY, I was paying only a little less for my room and my meal plan than I was for my actual tuition. Add books and supplies and it was about even.

I went to a CC, got my AAS and followed up for my BS, but my Major wasn't available locally from a State School, so I had to go away. I even did 1 year as a Resident Assistant where they paid for my room and half of the full meal plan, and I STILL racked up 11k in loans over 4 semesters a decade ago. The only reason I got off that cheap was I worked a full time job and a part time job while at CC, so the money I banked carried me through (and my parents covering my car insurance) and I worked a single part time job while away.

I lucked out and had a connection that helped me find employment that started right after graduation, which was great because I was pretty much broke. The kicker is that's a contact I made while at CC. Aside from personal development and life experience the extra 2 years did little extra to help prepare me for my career.

I wish I knew that before hand, I wish someone had told me, but no one did. Everyone drilled into me that I needed at least a BA/BS, so that's what I did. In the long run I made out as well as anyone can expect to, but I know I'm the exception.

I have friends who are making substantially more than I am, but still paying off their loans, because they went away all 4 years to private schools.
 
2012-11-13 06:40:21 PM  
Fell In Love With a Chair

Even with a bachelor's degree, 10+ years of experience in my field (IT/Networking)

If you're willing to say (and I understand if you're not), what is the degree and from what school?
 
2012-11-13 06:40:55 PM  
Prisons are the answer. Debtors prisons. For the opportunists who created the debts based on for-profit "universities" where credits don't transfer and the debts are nondischargable in bankruptcy and everyone's on the take for the commission.

Jail these banksters, school adminstrators, loan aggregators, and everyone else with his hand in the diploma mills to destroy an entire generation. I'm sure the prisons will need real sadistic guards and wardens Each year as guard could discharge a year of "education."

For those "institutions" that were totally electronic, a form of taser-bracelet could work. Each semester hour foisted on a student would be one hour of tasering.
 
2012-11-13 06:41:52 PM  

kxs401: HotIgneous Intruder: kxs401: Only if the loans are federal. She says they're private debt, which is much, much worse. They won't work with you like the DoE servicers will, and the loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.

She said Sallie Mae is holding the loans. Sallie Mae holds my loans and so I know what's possible with Sallie Mae. Am I somehow wrong about that?

Sallie Mae service both federally-owned and privately-owned loans. What kinds of deferments and forebearances and how many you can get are determined by who owns the loan (with some variation among servicers).

I briefly worked for one of the four federal student loan servicers.


That's pretty perverse.
Luckily, all my loans are federal. I had a private one, but I had it consolidated with others into one federal loan. It's pretty ridiculous that there's not one standard across the nation for this kind of thing.
 
2012-11-13 06:45:04 PM  

ongbok: And some people think spending 2 years at a CC makes you a failure.


Damn. I went to a great community college and I was pretty let down when I finally arrived at a four-year state school.

/My CC offered more languages than the state university college, including Russian, Greek, Latin, and Italian.
 
2012-11-13 06:47:57 PM  

Malacon: ongbok: CujoQuarrel: Just checked the local Comm College and it's rates still seem reasonable (about 2k a semester) and the local University (about 4k a semester). This is for state residents.

So how did you guys get into so much debt?

out of state or private schools. And some people think spending 2 years at a CC makes you a failure.

Not only that, but 4k for a State University is JUST tuition. When I was in college at a SUNY, I was paying only a little less for my room and my meal plan than I was for my actual tuition. Add books and supplies and it was about even.

I went to a CC, got my AAS and followed up for my BS, but my Major wasn't available locally from a State School, so I had to go away. I even did 1 year as a Resident Assistant where they paid for my room and half of the full meal plan, and I STILL racked up 11k in loans over 4 semesters a decade ago. The only reason I got off that cheap was I worked a full time job and a part time job while at CC, so the money I banked carried me through (and my parents covering my car insurance) and I worked a single part time job while away.

I lucked out and had a connection that helped me find employment that started right after graduation, which was great because I was pretty much broke. The kicker is that's a contact I made while at CC. Aside from personal development and life experience the extra 2 years did little extra to help prepare me for my career.

I wish I knew that before hand, I wish someone had told me, but no one did. Everyone drilled into me that I needed at least a BA/BS, so that's what I did. In the long run I made out as well as anyone can expect to, but I know I'm the exception.

I have friends who are making substantially more than I am, but still paying off their loans, because they went away all 4 years to private schools.


Very much this.

/Also went to a CC and then on to SUNY.
 
2012-11-13 06:48:19 PM  
I'm getting a big kick out of this thread, as I never had any student loan debt and have a math-centric worthwhile degree from a decent state university.
 
2012-11-13 06:49:30 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.


I just wanted to say that I completely understand what you're going through and know how dark and hopeless it all feels...I'm right there with you.

Solidarity, sistah.
 
2012-11-13 06:50:21 PM  

Gyrfalcon:
Uh, is that you in your profile pic? Cut your hair, take out the facial piercings, and cover the tats when you go on a job interview. I don't care what you're applying for or how much you want to stick it to "the man", when you go for an interview you need to look like White Bread America.

Update your resume. What have you been doing since you got out of school? Got any professional references? Your parents, friends and buds from college won't cut it anymore. You need somebody who works in the field, and ideally someone with more than 10 years on the job. Got letters of reference? If not, get some pronto. Make sure you put in any relevant volunteer work--it's better than having to explain three years of sitting on your ass.

Call Sallie Mae, and don't talk to anyone who isn't an actual American person who works in the US. Tell them what's going on. Have you used up your unemployment deferments? Ask about making interest-only payments if you can't get full deferments. Ask about income-based payments. Tell them you're not working and tell them you'll pay what you can. Don't let them scare you: Remember, you can't go to prison for non-payment and they can't threaten you with anything. Record your conversations. If they start harassing you, tell them to stop. If they don't, send them a "cease and desist" letter. Even Sallie Mae has to obey such a letter, as long as it contains the words "cease and desist". Sometimes just threatening to do so will work--it did for me.

Above all, stay in contact with them. Don't just blow off the letters and phone calls. Get the name of your account handler, and talk to THAT PERSON, no one else. Don't let them put you through to various call centers and offices. Deal with one person, not sixteen. Keep all your paperwork in order, or if you do it all online, print everything and keep it filed.

The worst that can happen is that they take you to court, get a judgment against you and put liens on any future property you own; this will f*ck your credit rating for the rest of your life, but will otherwise not impact your life. It is not illegal to be unable to pay a judgment (although it is illegal to REFUSE to pay one if you are able to do so). And it IS illegal to harass you if you have indicated you cannot pay and have made honest and reasonable efforts to communicate with your creditors. So don't give up.


I think I might just go "clean up" and put what I look like professionally in my profile so this doesn't get mixed up. I DO have a professional look that involves tat coverage, no piercings at all, and my hair is pulled back neatly from my face and styled. I'm not talking jeans either, I have a long dress style shirt, professional looking necklace, dress pants, and shined pumps. I do have a little makeup to cover blemishes too.

My resume is updated as of this month with five professional references, including two from 'current' clients. I'd never put friends or family on it, that would be foolish. I'd link a scrubbed version of my resume here but I think that'd be a bad idea, considering.

I was getting over 10 calls a day from Sallie Mae starting at 5am before my folks paid up. I wonder if that constitutes harassment... but getting a native english speaker on the phone sounds like a good idea. The overseas people uh, have little sympathy and won't deviate from the script. That's good advice- thank you. Especially the part about having ONE account handler. It'd suck to have my credit ruined for the rest of my life on this, but I literally have nothing left to give. I'm pretty sure my unemployment deferments are all used up, but there's nothing stopping me from asking again.

I think the best advice is to not give up. It'd be so easy to just end it. I have health problems, my car's falling apart (I had to turn down a job recently because it was too far and paid too low, it would have cost me money but GOD I tried to make it happen), and the stress is making my hair fall out. Just hearing anyone say "Don't give up" instead of "kill yourself, trash" means so much to me right now.

So, thank you.
 
2012-11-13 06:50:28 PM  

Mr_Juche: So I heard something a little while ago that I thought would be interesting to try. I was listening to Minnesota Public Radio and they were talking to three foreign reporters to get an outsiders perspective of the election. One of them was from Australia. When the topic of university debt came up, he talked about how they handled it. I believe that, if you go to a public university in Australia there is no tuition. However, after you graduate and your income reaches a certain level the cost is added to your income tax bill. I think it was something like an added two or three percent added per year. While I obviously don't have the specifics, it would be interesting to see if that could work here.


That's really not a bad idea, however, what happens if you leave the country?

I'd love to see the PnL numbers from that program to see what percentage is actually recouped vs the total cost.

Let's say i graduate at 24 and start hitting the income threshold @ 28 and i retire @ 62. Just pulling numbers out if my arse here, but let's say that the pay threshold is $100k and let's assume for simplicity sake that it stays the same over my lifetime, though i would disappointed if it did.

34yrs @ $3k a year = $102k paid back in my lifetime that i likely won't miss in that increment. Realistically it would be more with cost of living raises, but then again these numbers are purely rectal.
 
2012-11-13 06:50:59 PM  

brittmule: Fell In Love With a Chair: brittmule:
Sallie Mae is a bunch of dicks, and it sounds like your parents are too.

That being said, if you have 10 years in IT experience, I'd be interested in seeing your resume. My company is hiring a bunch of IT folks in the next year. No guarantees, of course, but I'd like to help if I can.

Holy shiat! That's amazing- anything helps, and in this industry networking is extremely important in times like these. I'll email you ASAP.

Sweet! I'll try to put in some referrals tomorrow. Just make sure your name, address, etc is there.

Annnnnd now I sound like a stalker.


Hey, after this stupid election season, I think one of the best things we can do is start helping each other instead of continuously kicking each other in the nuts, or ovaries, or whatever.
 
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