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(White House)   In this day of White House petitions, college students petitioning Obama to refund 100% their tuition in trade for their diplomas   (petitions.whitehouse.gov) divider line 335
    More: Fail, White House, obama, diplomas, tuition, petitions  
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9500 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Nov 2012 at 5:20 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-13 04:10:18 PM  
If it took you 4 years to figure out that your degree in underwater basket weaving (with a minor in TV appreciation) wasn't going to fast-track you into a six-figure-salary position at a Fortune 500 company then you do not deserve a refund.
 
2012-11-13 04:17:03 PM  
Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee, to hell with personal responsibility.
 
2012-11-13 04:18:44 PM  
these people need to punch themselves in the nuts. I'm paying back my student loans. they can do.
 
2012-11-13 04:20:24 PM  
I'd go a step further. Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be. You have no idea how many people this would help.

Oh, and I went to college WITHOUT any loans, so I am more than entitled to this opinion. Let 'em BK7 them, it's not without its consequences. Some people are absolutely CRIPPLED by this. Yes, there is the personal responsibility angle, but how many 18 year old kids are really capable of making a decision that can literally haunt them for the rest of their lives? Give them a break, a way out. The whole system is crap.
 
2012-11-13 04:20:34 PM  
by the way, another thing the federal government may not be able to help you with. people are farking stupid.
 
2012-11-13 04:21:17 PM  
Beats the secession ones I suppose.
 
2012-11-13 04:23:15 PM  
Well, with the first two posters' idiocy out of the way, while this is a bit far-fetched it once again brings to light the point that many employers won't hire without some fancy sheet of paper that asserts the holder somehow knows how to do the job for which they are applying, and the only way to get that piece of paper is to place yourself in the amount of debt similar to a goddamn home mortgage.

Also while the market is certainly saturated, I doubt an MBA is ewquivalent to a degree in UWBW. And, as far as personal responsibility goes, when a college states "You have like a 68% higher chance of getting your dream job at a 42% higher salary!" and then you graduate and the market says "It's called the honey pot son, she played you good", well maybe those farkers would love to make those bill payments, but they can't afford to.
 
2012-11-13 04:23:29 PM  
I'm going to start a petition to end these stupid-ass petitions.
 
2012-11-13 04:27:55 PM  

nekom: I'd go a step further. Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be. You have no idea how many people this would help.

Oh, and I went to college WITHOUT any loans, so I am more than entitled to this opinion. Let 'em BK7 them, it's not without its consequences. Some people are absolutely CRIPPLED by this. Yes, there is the personal responsibility angle, but how many 18 year old kids are really capable of making a decision that can literally haunt them for the rest of their lives? Give them a break, a way out. The whole system is crap.


Meh said it better than I did. I work in bankruptcy. The two things I see as the primary cause are medical bills and home mortgages, and in the vast majority of bk petitions I review I see student loans, often above six digits. What an act of collusion to make them immune from discharge. They should have made it more like the "910" clause in Chapter 13 whereby you can't simply discharge them immediately after school, but to make them entirely non-dischargable absent ridiculously difficult to satisfy requirements?
 
2012-11-13 04:29:05 PM  

nekom: Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be


That.
 
2012-11-13 04:30:57 PM  
The problem here is that you're not paying for a diploma, you're paying for education. So in order to refund your tuition, we'll have to remove what you learned.

Therefore, we need this dude:

www.heroesrevealed.com
 
2012-11-13 04:33:02 PM  
Courtesy of @IowaHawkBlog, great thinker of our time

fark you, you self-aggrandizing, entitled little shiatstain.

Oh, wait. He's not a whiny little recent grad. He's a grown-ass man with 2 kids and a blog that links to the entire constellation of right-wing nut jobbery.

fark you, you teatard shiatstain.
 
2012-11-13 04:37:18 PM  

Elandriel: They should have made it more like the "910" clause in Chapter 13 whereby you can't simply discharge them immediately after school, but to make them entirely non-dischargable absent ridiculously difficult to satisfy requirements?


Alternate idea: Allow it to be discharged in a 13. Reasonable payments based on the particular situation for, what 5 years for a 13? I agree they shouldn't be able to discharge it right after receiving their education, it shouldn't be allowed to be done in bad faith. But for some people, it is absolutely the best option not currently available to them.
 
2012-11-13 04:40:43 PM  

nekom: Alternate idea: Allow it to be discharged in a 13. Reasonable payments based on the particular situation for, what 5 years for a 13? I agree they shouldn't be able to discharge it right after receiving their education, it shouldn't be allowed to be done in bad faith. But for some people, it is absolutely the best option not currently available to them.


I know the argument is essentially "The debtor has received a [tangible] service and/or product to which the creditor has no recompense" but then you know what? Maybe don't make your farking school so expensive.

And of course, if anyone wants to know the real reason why tuition rates have skyrocketed, look no further than the fact that you can not ever, ever escape them, even through bankruptcy, and in some cases death.
 
2012-11-13 04:41:34 PM  

propasaurus: Courtesy of @IowaHawkBlog, great thinker of our time

fark you, you self-aggrandizing, entitled little shiatstain.

Oh, wait. He's not a whiny little recent grad. He's a grown-ass man with 2 kids and a blog that links to the entire constellation of right-wing nut jobbery.

fark you, you teatard shiatstain.


Goddamn it. YOU RUINED A PERFECTLY GOOD HEROES REFERENCE @IOWAHAWKBLOG, YOU COCK!
 
2012-11-13 04:43:18 PM  
All you have to do is sign up for the military after graduation. They give you $$$$ and you sign a few years of your life away as an indentured servant. When your time is up, you leave. Now, you are a vet and you get points when job hunting.

It may not pay off all your loans, but you scammed the system by avoiding the ritualistic ROTC and having to walk around campus in the uniforms and passing inspections every week.


/didn't do this because (gasp) I worked a PT job making enough money in the summers and holidays to pay tuition, room, board, books, spending money, etc....

but did have a couple of friends that got a full ride on an Air Force ROTC program.

saw one of my fellow graduates join the Air Force after not being able to find a job. The ROTC guys jaws dropped when they saw that he got the money they got up front.

//was a couple of weeks away from joining before I got a job working offshore
 
2012-11-13 04:56:49 PM  
somebody please explain to me whether this a conservative thing or a liberal thing... I'm really confused.

/no student loans
//put last semester on credit card - so stupid.
 
2012-11-13 05:01:05 PM  
Who are the people that keep for-profit online "colleges" in business? A piece of paper from a brick and mortar university may not count for much, but wouldn't an employer think it's a helluva lot better than online "schools" where the student can sit in his pajamas and smoke weed all day.

The paper may not be worth much, but the experience of interacting with peers seems crucial if you ever want to work with other people.
 
2012-11-13 05:02:33 PM  

Voiceofreason01: If it took you 4 years to figure out that your degree in underwater basket weaving (with a minor in TV appreciation) wasn't going to fast-track you into a six-figure-salary position at a Fortune 500 company then you do not deserve a refund.


But I got a dual major in art films and history from a small private school, and my PhD from University of Phoenix in ancient Roman civilization. Why the hell shouldn't the government pay for my education since I've specialized so much and have so much to offer?
 
2012-11-13 05:09:29 PM  

Elandriel: Well, with the first two posters' idiocy out of the way, while this is a bit far-fetched it once again brings to light the point that many employers won't hire without some fancy sheet of paper that asserts the holder somehow knows how to do the job for which they are applying, and the only way to get that piece of paper is to place yourself in the amount of debt similar to a goddamn home mortgage.


This is the worst fallacy of the "student loan forgiveness" argument. Even with current tuition prices it's possible to go to a community college for 2 years, then work full time and finish the last two years of your degree over 3 or 4 years. Does it take a little longer and require you to not go to the school of your dreams? Probably. But does it mean little to no debt once your done as well as a whole lot of actual work experience? Yes. Yes it does.
 
2012-11-13 05:24:55 PM  
When you think about it, the Federal government is actually throwing money away on these student loans. With all the diploma mills out there, we could probably eliminate the spending deficit if the Government simply kept all the interest on all the liberal arts majors out there with $80k in student debt.

/it's a stupid tax
//it's the best way to get rid of spending/taxing gaps.
///it's worked for Nevada for decades.
 
2012-11-13 05:25:23 PM  

knbber2: Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee, to hell with personal responsibility.


sounds to me like a whinny republican trying to make a point.

and failing as they usually do
 
2012-11-13 05:25:52 PM  
I'd like a refund for my BS in Mechanical Engineering. I've never used it. I make a living hustling used books.
 
2012-11-13 05:25:53 PM  
Yes, I'm behind this completely, however with a caveat. Anyone who gets their student loan bailed out is beholden to the federal government and has to fill in potholes, collect rattlesnake venom or whatever menial labor the government requires with 15% of their minimum wages being taxed with the revenue going towards the "bailing out idiot college students" program for a minimum of 10 years.
 
2012-11-13 05:25:57 PM  
In an alternate universe, BYU coeds petition President Romney to refund 100% of their tuition in trade for husbands.
 
2012-11-13 05:27:36 PM  

Brontes: But I got a dual major in art films and history from a small private school, and my PhD from University of Phoenix in ancient Roman civilization. Why the hell shouldn't the government pay for my education since I've specialized so much and have so much to offer?


You have a doctorate in ancient Roman civilization? What do you do for a living?
 
2012-11-13 05:27:57 PM  

nekom: I'd go a step further. Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be. You have no idea how many people this would help.

Oh, and I went to college WITHOUT any loans, so I am more than entitled to this opinion. Let 'em BK7 them, it's not without its consequences. Some people are absolutely CRIPPLED by this. Yes, there is the personal responsibility angle, but how many 18 year old kids are really capable of making a decision that can literally haunt them for the rest of their lives? Give them a break, a way out. The whole system is crap.


In that case there would be no unsecured college loans. Because the obvious thing to do would be to borrow like hell and then go bankrupt after you graduate.
 
2012-11-13 05:28:12 PM  

Voiceofreason01: If it took you 4 years to figure out that your degree in underwater basket weaving (with a minor in TV appreciation) wasn't going to fast-track you into a six-figure-salary position at a Fortune 500 company then you do not deserve a refund.


Hey now! When I started; Halliburton was paying some chump $300 a basket for baskets woven underwater.

/ the market shrunk

// not everyone needs to go to college
 
2012-11-13 05:28:16 PM  
www.bls.gov
 
2012-11-13 05:29:05 PM  
I owed a lot in student loans, too. Know what I did? Made payments until they were gone.
 
2012-11-13 05:29:42 PM  
Because of the inability of recent college graduates to find gainful employment in order to repay their college debt, and since this college debt cannot be eliminated in bankruptcy, and most of the recent additions to the job market have been in service related industries, the Obama administration should take up the cause of reducing college debt and hold those accountable responsible.

And who, pray tell, is accountable for YOUR debt?
 
2012-11-13 05:30:20 PM  

nekom: but how many 18 year old kids are really capable of making a decision that can literally haunt them for the rest of their lives?


They can vote, can't they?
 
2012-11-13 05:31:05 PM  

lamecomedian: nekom: but how many 18 year old kids are really capable of making a decision that can literally haunt them for the rest of their lives?

They can vote, can't they?


Or join the military.
 
2012-11-13 05:31:13 PM  

knbber2: Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee, to hell with personal responsibility.


Y'know, I thought the same until it occurred to me that it never hurts to ask. I have to wonder if I'm the sucker for paying off my loans if all I had to do was politely say "Hey, can I stop doing this?" I'm all for manning up and dealing with your mistakes, but if nobody cares if you do, why do it? Just move on and don't do it again. And again, you'll never know if people are ok with you dropping it if you never ask.
 
2012-11-13 05:31:30 PM  
We could do what other countries do and have low/no tuition.
 
2012-11-13 05:31:39 PM  

knbber2: Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee, to hell with personal responsibility.


Standing here like a loaded gun waiting to go off?

/Better not be obscure!
 
2012-11-13 05:33:27 PM  
You mean to tell me not everyone gets their underwater basket weaving degree paid in full by the government like me?
 
2012-11-13 05:33:51 PM  

ManateeGag: these people need to punch themselves in the nuts. I'm paying back my student loans. they can do.


English major?
 
2012-11-13 05:33:55 PM  
I have $900 a month in private student loan bills. My DoE debt is bigger, but more easily manageable. I'm not really sure how I'm ever supposed to start a life, buy a house, have children with this millstone around my neck.
 
2012-11-13 05:34:07 PM  
When is the Student Loan Bubble (SLB) going to pop?

Going $200,000 in debt to get a BA degree in English Studies is not smart. Going $200,000 in debt to become a neurosurgeon is another story.
 
2012-11-13 05:34:21 PM  

knbber2: Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee, to hell with personal responsibility.




Why should college students be any different. Obama will provide for all the hogs at the trough.
 
2012-11-13 05:34:32 PM  
How about a compromise. College tuition rates locks in at time of acceptance for the entirety of a students pursuit (for that specific degree).
 
2012-11-13 05:34:51 PM  

queezyweezel: Brontes: But I got a dual major in art films and history from a small private school, and my PhD from University of Phoenix in ancient Roman civilization. Why the hell shouldn't the government pay for my education since I've specialized so much and have so much to offer?

You have a doctorate in ancient Roman civilization? What do you do for a living?


Probably works as an Army physician....paygrade is about the same too....
 
2012-11-13 05:34:52 PM  
weknowmemes.com

/sorry
 
2012-11-13 05:34:56 PM  

wildcardjack: I'd like a refund for my BS in Mechanical Engineering. I've never used it. I make a living hustling used books.


Can I have it? I want to go back to school for mechanical engineering but if you already have the paper I can just put my name on it. I will give you $50 and half a bottle of YooHoo.
 
2012-11-13 05:34:59 PM  

signaljammer: We could do what other countries do and have low/no tuition.


If you think it's expensive now, just wait until it's free.
 
2012-11-13 05:35:32 PM  

queezyweezel: Brontes: But I got a dual major in art films and history from a small private school, and my PhD from University of Phoenix in ancient Roman civilization. Why the hell shouldn't the government pay for my education since I've specialized so much and have so much to offer?

You have a doctorate in ancient Roman civilization? What do you do for a living?


Romans?
 
2012-11-13 05:35:43 PM  
Very simple question: Are the students going to give the knowledge back that they got at the university? Are they going to make up for the seat that they took up that the university could have filled with a different student?
 
2012-11-13 05:36:38 PM  
Look at all those college town signatures.
 
2012-11-13 05:36:41 PM  

ManateeGag: these people need to punch themselves in the nuts. I'm paying back my student loans. they can do.


There your have it.
The Famous American "I got screwed, so you'll get screwed too!" Attitude.
 
2012-11-13 05:36:49 PM  
how exactly do you forfeit a diploma? do they go into your records and white it out?
 
2012-11-13 05:36:51 PM  
I've got to believe they should've thought about how to pay for all that before spending the 4+ years in school.

Granted, I am not using my degree at all and there is probably no future I can see where I will actually be working on embedded microcontrollers....but the school listed on the degree is enough to trick people in to thinking I can be a good employee.
 
2012-11-13 05:36:52 PM  
So I heard something a little while ago that I thought would be interesting to try. I was listening to Minnesota Public Radio and they were talking to three foreign reporters to get an outsiders perspective of the election. One of them was from Australia. When the topic of university debt came up, he talked about how they handled it. I believe that, if you go to a public university in Australia there is no tuition. However, after you graduate and your income reaches a certain level the cost is added to your income tax bill. I think it was something like an added two or three percent added per year. While I obviously don't have the specifics, it would be interesting to see if that could work here.
 
2012-11-13 05:38:16 PM  
www.memecreator.net 

/Leaving it here.
 
2012-11-13 05:38:23 PM  

nburghmatt: how exactly do you forfeit a diploma? do they go into your records and white it out?


They cook your brain at 105 degrees until you can do basic algebra and read at a 12th grade level
 
2012-11-13 05:38:36 PM  

bradkanus: somebody please explain to me whether this a conservative thing or a liberal thing... I'm really confused.

/no student loans
//put last semester on credit card - so stupid.


It's mainly a liberal cause at this point, although it doesn't have much traction there either. The solution would be to make student debts dischargeable in bankruptcy which would mean fewer loans would be given out, thus there would be less money to pay tuition, and tuition would have to go down. That would be a free market solution but since it helps students conservatives don't seem to support it.
 
2012-11-13 05:38:40 PM  

bulldg4life: I've got to believe they should've thought about how to pay for all that before spending the 4+ years in school.

Granted, I am not using my degree at all and there is probably no future I can see where I will actually be working on embedded microcontrollers....but the school listed on the degree is enough to trick people in to thinking I can be a good employee.


Depends on if the tuition doubled during those 4-years. Here in California, students are finding out mid-way through that their loans no longer cover everything. This leaves them with the choice of dropping out or taking on more debt then they can handle. Granted dropping out does not discharge the debt they've already accumulated.
 
2012-11-13 05:39:31 PM  
"...the Obama administration should take up the cause of reducing college debt and hold those accountable responsible."

I couldn't agree more, hold these asshats accountable and bring back debtor's prison.
 
2012-11-13 05:39:35 PM  

Aarontology: Beats the secession ones I suppose.


Sure, but the potential for overlap scares the bejeesus out of me.
 
2012-11-13 05:40:33 PM  

kxs401: I have $900 a month in private student loan bills. My DoE debt is bigger, but more easily manageable. I'm not really sure how I'm ever supposed to start a life, buy a house, have children with this millstone around my neck.


Help me to help you.

/Doh!
 
2012-11-13 05:40:35 PM  
YixilTesiphon
If you think it's expensive now, just wait until it's free.
???

//f'rexample
//free in France
 
2012-11-13 05:40:55 PM  

cgraves67: Yes, I'm behind this completely, however with a caveat. Anyone who gets their student loan bailed out is beholden to the federal government and has to fill in potholes, collect rattlesnake venom or whatever menial labor the government requires with 15% of their minimum wages being taxed with the revenue going towards the "bailing out idiot college students" program for a minimum of 10 years.


In British Columbia they have a Loan forgiveness program where you can work in the public sector depending on what you went to school for and your loan will be gone faster than you can say Romney 2012.
 
2012-11-13 05:41:33 PM  

Brontes: But I got a dual major in art films and history from a small private school, and my PhD from University of Phoenix in ancient Roman civilization. Why the hell shouldn't the government pay for my education since I've specialized so much and have so much to offer?


i176.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-13 05:41:51 PM  

kxs401: I have $900 a month in private student loan bills. My DoE debt is bigger, but more easily manageable. I'm not really sure how I'm ever supposed to start a life, buy a house, have children with this millstone around my neck.


Well, you could have just not borrowed all that money.
 
2012-11-13 05:42:23 PM  

Ex-Texan: [www.memecreator.net image 407x405] 

/Leaving it here.


www.nationalww2museum.org


These are ditch diggers, you damn moron.

And the Department of Defense is downsizing.
 
2012-11-13 05:42:34 PM  

netweavr: Depends on if the tuition doubled during those 4-years. Here in California, students are finding out mid-way through that their loans no longer cover everything. This leaves them with the choice of dropping out or taking on more debt then they can handle. Granted dropping out does not discharge the debt they've already accumulated.


I wonder what people are expecting when they are planning this out as a senior, though. Does everyone assume that college MUST be a 4-year school for 25,000 a year across the country?

Perhaps I'm lucky since GT was in my backyard and is a great engineering school. But, it didn't seem like it was that hard to realize what would help me after college. And, the cost wasn't life threatening.
 
2012-11-13 05:42:43 PM  

netweavr: bulldg4life: I've got to believe they should've thought about how to pay for all that before spending the 4+ years in school.

Granted, I am not using my degree at all and there is probably no future I can see where I will actually be working on embedded microcontrollers....but the school listed on the degree is enough to trick people in to thinking I can be a good employee.

Depends on if the tuition doubled during those 4-years. Here in California, students are finding out mid-way through that their loans no longer cover everything. This leaves them with the choice of dropping out or taking on more debt then they can handle. Granted dropping out does not discharge the debt they've already accumulated.


Well I guess it's a good thing California offers in state tuition for illegal aliens as long as you can prove you went to high school here illegally for at least 2 years. Good thing those leeches get a break.
 
2012-11-13 05:43:22 PM  
Courtesy of @IowaHawkBlog, great thinker derper of our time
 
2012-11-13 05:43:44 PM  

signaljammer: YixilTesiphon
If you think it's expensive now, just wait until it's free.
???

//f'rexample
//free in France


Then we end up with a gazillion people taking useless majors just so they can party.
 
2012-11-13 05:44:01 PM  

signaljammer: YixilTesiphon
If you think it's expensive now, just wait until it's free.
???

//f'rexample
//free in France


The professors work for free in France? I could see how that would help.
 
2012-11-13 05:44:06 PM  
With the exception of NW, colleges and unis are subsidized at about 4-10x tuition by the state as things stand today.
 
2012-11-13 05:44:11 PM  
Can I sign AGAINST this petition?
 
2012-11-13 05:44:19 PM  

CujoQuarrel: kxs401: I have $900 a month in private student loan bills. My DoE debt is bigger, but more easily manageable. I'm not really sure how I'm ever supposed to start a life, buy a house, have children with this millstone around my neck.

Well, you could have just not borrowed all that money.


I suppose so, but once I started, I felt like I needed a degree to be able to pay off the debt I had already accumulated, which required... taking out more loans.
 
2012-11-13 05:44:22 PM  

Elandriel: you can not ever, ever escape them, even through bankruptcy, and in some cases death.


Are you serious? Holy shiat.

I paid off mine a long time ago, but really, until after death? Who do they try to collect from?
 
2012-11-13 05:45:29 PM  

Broktun: Going $200,000 in debt to get a BA degree in English Studies is not smart. Going $200,000 in debt to become a neurosurgeon is another story.


$200,000 is mighty low for a medical degree. An associate's degree in something like PT or massage will run you $40,000. I know someone in dental school who has over $500,000 in debt and still has a year left.

Tuition at the state school I went to has doubled since I was a freshman there in 2002. My brother graduated 3 years after me, and needed $20,000 more in loans than I did.
 
2012-11-13 05:45:40 PM  
Sovs had free tuition, and their unis were on a much higher standard than USAs.
 
2012-11-13 05:45:53 PM  

kxs401: CujoQuarrel: kxs401: I have $900 a month in private student loan bills. My DoE debt is bigger, but more easily manageable. I'm not really sure how I'm ever supposed to start a life, buy a house, have children with this millstone around my neck.

Well, you could have just not borrowed all that money.

I suppose so, but once I started, I felt like I needed a degree to be able to pay off the debt I had already accumulated, which required... taking out more loans.


What did you major in?
 
2012-11-13 05:45:57 PM  
some of us chose majors that weren't shiat tier and spent our weekends doing work instead of riding the frat boy cock carousel are now making good money in a great job and own a house and contribute to society while you wonder why your education in post feminist transgender studies is worth less than your ruined vagina.
 
2012-11-13 05:46:21 PM  

TenaciousP: Who are the people that keep for-profit online "colleges" in business? A piece of paper from a brick and mortar university may not count for much, but wouldn't an employer think it's a helluva lot better than online "schools" where the student can sit in his pajamas and smoke weed all day.


You think that's not happening at the brick and mortar schools? I have a bridge on the moon to sell you...
 
2012-11-13 05:46:54 PM  

signaljammer: Sovs had free tuition, and their unis were on a much higher standard than USAs.


Their economic system wasn't at all different, so, that's probably a good model for the USA.

/seriously, you bring up the USSR as a policy model?
 
2012-11-13 05:47:17 PM  

CujoQuarrel: nekom: I'd go a step further. Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be. You have no idea how many people this would help.

Oh, and I went to college WITHOUT any loans, so I am more than entitled to this opinion. Let 'em BK7 them, it's not without its consequences. Some people are absolutely CRIPPLED by this. Yes, there is the personal responsibility angle, but how many 18 year old kids are really capable of making a decision that can literally haunt them for the rest of their lives? Give them a break, a way out. The whole system is crap.

In that case there would be no unsecured college loans. Because the obvious thing to do would be to borrow like hell and then go bankrupt after you graduate.


In Canada we can get rid of our student loans through bankruptcy after 10 years. We have a lot more people that go to school here (over 50% of the population is of least college educated) and we don't have an issue of borrowing like hell and then choosing to go bankrupt. Even if you choose to go through bankruptcy, there are plenty of downsides to having your credit rating go in the crapper, it's not a win win to get rid of your student loan through bankruptcy.
 
2012-11-13 05:47:24 PM  
This would sure as shiat help me out and I'm not one of these "snowflakes" I hear so much who took out loans to pay for everything and not work while in college. I worked full time (I was a service technician for a large window and door company theyy let me work 3 12 hour days on monday, wednesday, and friday plus any weekend appointments I could make it to while going to class from 8-6 on tuesday and thursday) while going to school full time and I still had to take out loans. I was able to pay for about 2 years my self but I still have about 13k in debt. I want to choke out every mother farker that says, "Well maybe they should have tried to pay for school themselves". I would have had to give literally like 60% of my income for just tuition. At a STATE SCHOOL. I graduated in 08, I can't even imagine how much more it must cost to go now and it has only been 4 years. I personally think we should make higher education free to all who want it and are able to pass the aptitude tests required to get in to college, but I think that's a bigger pipe dream than a discharge of debt.
 
2012-11-13 05:48:22 PM  

YixilTesiphon: signaljammer: Sovs had free tuition, and their unis were on a much higher standard than USAs.

Their economic system wasn't at all different, so, that's probably a good model for the USA.

/seriously, you bring up the USSR as a policy model?


Did they allow just anyone to go to college? Doubt it.
 
2012-11-13 05:49:00 PM  

Soymilk: Elandriel: you can not ever, ever escape them, even through bankruptcy, and in some cases death.

Are you serious? Holy shiat.

I paid off mine a long time ago, but really, until after death? Who do they try to collect from?


There was a story of a student loan collector going after the parents of someone who died (I think while in his last year at the university).
 
2012-11-13 05:49:06 PM  
 
2012-11-13 05:49:33 PM  
As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.

Seems like plenty of people in this thread are ready to pass a snap judgement that anyone crushed by a $44k debt clean out of college is just a lazy asshole. You sound like my parents, completely out of touch with reality. Just go down to the Wal-mart and get a job with those groceries. Saying you're "over-qualified" is narcissistic bullshiat, they TOOOTALLY hire people with four year degrees to stock shelves. Get over yourself, kid. You're not too good to make fries.

Even with a bachelor's degree, 10+ years of experience in my field (IT/Networking), clean drug/background/dmv screens, a willingness to work for just barely above minimum wage, and I'm STILL having a hard time finding work. Meanwhile Sallie Mae wants $500 a month. My income is next to nothing, I do art commissions for $10-20 bucks a pop. I'll do literally anything legal for money, $500/mo is more than my rent by a fair share. I live with my ex-girlfriend. She pays my rent still. I don't know why.

I've never been on welfare, foodstamps, and apart from two months on unemployment years ago, I've paid tens of thousands of dollars into the system and asked for less than a grand in return over the 12 years I've been employed.

fark you people.

I'm 28 years old and at this rate I will never own a house or a new car. I cannot get out from under this debt. I signed my tuition papers at 17, not understanding what would happen, or how this impacted my future. I was a child and we were told IF YOU DO NOT GO TO COLLEGE, YOU WON'T GET WORK. Now graduates are told "Without experience, you will not get hired". How do you get experience in your field without having a job in the first place? I am one of the lucky ones, I have the experience, but get passed over for being a young woman, and only having my A+ certification, because I can't afford to get more.

Seriously, fark you all. You got yours, no one else needs help. We're all just lazy people with useless farking degrees and didn't get a rug pulled out from under us. My parents co-signed this ridiculous mess, and my inability to pay ruins THEIR credit. My parents are threatening to abduct me from my family to try and make me pay my past due amount of $800 they paid without asking me. I was given a week to pay up or "they're coming to get me, one way or another". Sallie mae turned my (admittedly douchey) parents into extortionists.

I will probably have to get a restraining order.

Today I had a $200 medical expense. Rather, I paid $50 and was told it would be $150 to get the medicine I need for my eyes (Giant Papillary Conjunctivitis). I had to pass and hope it goes away. I have $76 to last me until god knows when, and Sallie Mae wants another $500 in 17 days. I can't even start a farking kickstarter to beg for help. Whatever, I didn't even like having corneas.

But don't help these farking losers. They don't deserve it. Teat-suckers, all of them, all for wanting just to farking live.

You got yours, fark all those idiot adult children, crippled by debt.

/Here, let me help
//CSB, shut up you whiny moron
///I am shaking in rage while filling out more job apps
 
2012-11-13 05:50:13 PM  

bulldg4life: netweavr: Depends on if the tuition doubled during those 4-years. Here in California, students are finding out mid-way through that their loans no longer cover everything. This leaves them with the choice of dropping out or taking on more debt then they can handle. Granted dropping out does not discharge the debt they've already accumulated.

I wonder what people are expecting when they are planning this out as a senior, though. Does everyone assume that college MUST be a 4-year school for 25,000 a year across the country?

Perhaps I'm lucky since GT was in my backyard and is a great engineering school. But, it didn't seem like it was that hard to realize what would help me after college. And, the cost wasn't life threatening.


They're told what the expected tuition is, they find a loan that matches that. Then 2 years later, tuition doubles and they're stuck with the bill.

It's not like they were told this would happen.
 
2012-11-13 05:50:45 PM  
No, the Sovs kicked you out and wouldn't let you back in if you dropped the ball. I would prefer to use France as a policy model, if we are going to be so general about things.
 
2012-11-13 05:51:16 PM  

Ex-Texan: [www.memecreator.net image 407x405] 

/Leaving it here.


I like to call mine my "barista degree."

/only did two years
//no debt if you qualify for financial aid and pell grants
 
2012-11-13 05:51:53 PM  
Dear Prexy,

I am a lazy worthless bastard who is not worth $8 an hour and cant get a jorb at Mickey D's cause you actually gotta work there, who needs that?

So I sat on my ass in college for 4 long years, studied crap like Problems Facing Minorities, Appreciation of Television and anything else I could pass easily.

Now that I am done with that I have been living in my Mom's basement but she is about to throw me out on the street. I am also $100,000 in debt, and it is not likely I can raise that kind of money standing by a freeway onramp with a cardboard sign, which is about all I am fit for.

Please give me four more years of free sucks on the titty nipple, cause I am only 26 years old and just a poor little helpless baby.

That about get it?

AND WHILE I'M ON THE SUBJECT:

Extended unemployment for workers under Obamunism: 199 weeks.

Time between Inauguration and re--election: 197 weeks.

Coincidence? I think not.
 
2012-11-13 05:52:24 PM  

CujoQuarrel: kxs401: CujoQuarrel: kxs401: I have $900 a month in private student loan bills. My DoE debt is bigger, but more easily manageable. I'm not really sure how I'm ever supposed to start a life, buy a house, have children with this millstone around my neck.

Well, you could have just not borrowed all that money.

I suppose so, but once I started, I felt like I needed a degree to be able to pay off the debt I had already accumulated, which required... taking out more loans.

What did you major in?


I have a BS in Economics.
 
2012-11-13 05:52:48 PM  
OK. But yu have to be lobotomized, too.
 
2012-11-13 05:52:53 PM  
Just stop with the goddamn petitions already
 
2012-11-13 05:52:57 PM  
Is college worth it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_N7MAr98CI

Short answer: yes
 
2012-11-13 05:53:15 PM  
If I can get a refund for everything I've just finished paying off, then I'm on board with this. Of course there will be a limited pool of money and they can start paying the older folks first, maybe I'll get paid maybe I won't. I can prove that my degree turned into an ok career.
 
2012-11-13 05:54:26 PM  
www.broodingdetective.com

EDUCATION DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!
 
2012-11-13 05:55:09 PM  

Valarius: Ex-Texan: [www.memecreator.net image 407x405] 

/Leaving it here.

[www.nationalww2museum.org image 532x395]


These are ditch diggers, you damn moron.

And the Department of Defense is downsizing.


/queensizing.

FTFK

window seat or aisle seat?
 
2012-11-13 05:55:54 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: I will probably have to get a restraining order.


Sallie Mae?
Here's what you do:
1) Income sensitive repayment play
Got no money to spare?
2) Hardship deferral.
 
2012-11-13 05:55:58 PM  

TheOnion: Is college worth it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_N7MAr98CI

Short answer: yes


He severely underestimates the opportunity cost.
 
jgi
2012-11-13 05:57:08 PM  
Serious question: if you don't pay back your student loans, the government can garnish your wages. What happens if you're self-employed, freelance, own your own business?
 
2012-11-13 05:57:51 PM  
...waste of money.

Of course, a degree in Humanities/Liberal Arts is to.
 
2012-11-13 05:58:18 PM  

cgraves67: Yes, I'm behind this completely, however with a caveat. Anyone who gets their student loan bailed out is beholden to the federal government and has to fill in potholes, collect rattlesnake venom or whatever menial labor the government requires with 15% of their minimum wages being taxed with the revenue going towards the "bailing out idiot college students" program for a minimum of 10 years.


You mean...they should work at something below their area of expertise in order to pay off their bills?!?
 
2012-11-13 05:58:43 PM  

kxs401: CujoQuarrel: kxs401: CujoQuarrel: kxs401: I have $900 a month in private student loan bills. My DoE debt is bigger, but more easily manageable. I'm not really sure how I'm ever supposed to start a life, buy a house, have children with this millstone around my neck.

Well, you could have just not borrowed all that money.

I suppose so, but once I started, I felt like I needed a degree to be able to pay off the debt I had already accumulated, which required... taking out more loans.

What did you major in?

I have a BS in Economics.


Sounds like you ought to be employable for something. More familiar with the STEM degrees myself.
 
2012-11-13 05:59:33 PM  

CujoQuarrel: kxs401: CujoQuarrel: kxs401: CujoQuarrel: kxs401: I have $900 a month in private student loan bills. My DoE debt is bigger, but more easily manageable. I'm not really sure how I'm ever supposed to start a life, buy a house, have children with this millstone around my neck.

Well, you could have just not borrowed all that money.

I suppose so, but once I started, I felt like I needed a degree to be able to pay off the debt I had already accumulated, which required... taking out more loans.

What did you major in?

I have a BS in Economics.

Sounds like you ought to be employable for something. More familiar with the STEM degrees myself.


I thought so too. Oh well, time to fake my own death.
 
2012-11-13 05:59:34 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Get over yourself, kid. You're not too good to make fries.


I can't remember where I read it, but I do remember reading an article that made a whole lot of sense that said that it's really no wonder that there is an entire generation that thinks that it is above flipping burgers because for their entire lives that they are above flipping burgers. "You'd better go to school, you'd better get a degree, you don't want to spend your life flipping burgers, do you?" Now, it's not true and they are going to get a quick reality check, but can you really put to much blame on them for thinking like that when that's the only way they have been taught to think?
 
2012-11-13 05:59:37 PM  

nekom: I'd go a step further. Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be. You have no idea how many people this would help.

Oh, and I went to college WITHOUT any loans, so I am more than entitled to this opinion. Let 'em BK7 them, it's not without its consequences. Some people are absolutely CRIPPLED by this. Yes, there is the personal responsibility angle, but how many 18 year old kids are really capable of making a decision that can literally haunt them for the rest of their lives? Give them a break, a way out. The whole system is crap.


Actually I think a better idea would be to:

1) Limit the amount of interest that can be capitalized on a loan. Often it's not the loan amount that's stupid...it's the killer interest which is constantly being compounded. Explain to me exactly how it makes any sense to pay back $100,000 over time, for an initial $60,000 loan? You're better off just burning the goddamn money.

2) Specify a maximum payment per month for ALL loans, not to exceed 2.5% of your total yearly gross salary (so if you make $42,000/yr before taxes, the maximum amount in loans you'll pay back per month is $1050...seems reasonable). I've come to find that it's not the amount of the loan that sucks...it's how insane the student loan payments are on a graduated repayment plan. Ever tried talking to a student loan servicing company about trying to lower your payment? You get asked less questions before going under the knife.

3) Allow a PORTION of student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy proceedings. Nobody should EVER be let off the hook entirely for a contract to which they agreed upon repayment at a later date.

4) We need to get off this notion that EVERYBODY has to go to college. No, not everybody HAS to go to college. College in the grand scheme of things isn't important unless you plan on pursuing a seriously advanced career like medicine, law, education, or engineering. Otherwise, you're WASTING YOUR MONEY.

Just my two cents...
 
2012-11-13 06:00:35 PM  

Shostie: The problem here is that you're not paying for a diploma, you're paying for education. So in order to refund your tuition, we'll have to remove what you learned.

Therefore, we need this dude:

[www.heroesrevealed.com image 277x320]


Yeah, whoever thinks this is a good idea has proven they're so stupid that it's obvious their diploma is doing them no good at all. So they might as well have their loans forgiven in exchange for their diplomas; because anyone that dumb is going to be flipping burgers all their life anyway.
 
2012-11-13 06:00:48 PM  
Speaking as a libby lib, this is BS.
 
2012-11-13 06:01:45 PM  
America: the land of racisim and entitlement.
 
2012-11-13 06:01:47 PM  

cgraves67: Yes, I'm behind this completely, however with a caveat. Anyone who gets their student loan bailed out is beholden to the federal government and has to fill in potholes, collect rattlesnake venom or whatever menial labor the government requires with 15% of their minimum wages being taxed with the revenue going towards the "bailing out idiot college students" program for a minimum of 10 years.


http://www.serve.gov/
 
2012-11-13 06:02:08 PM  
Just checked the local Comm College and it's rates still seem reasonable (about 2k a semester) and the local University (about 4k a semester). This is for state residents.

So how did you guys get into so much debt?
 
2012-11-13 06:02:20 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: I will probably have to get a restraining order.

Sallie Mae?
Here's what you do:
1) Income sensitive repayment play
Got no money to spare?
2) Hardship deferral.


I tried, they said I was ineligible and said I could push my payment back as far as the 15th. When I first got out of college, I had difficulty finding work and had to use my deferment at that time. I guess everyone gets one. Exactly one. Because my parents are capable of paying, I'm not eligible for income sensitive things. Unfortunately, we are almost completely estranged. They are hardcore republican fundamentalists, and I'm gay. Yesterday my mom told me I was an abomination to the lord and doesn't know where she went wrong. If I told her I was gay at 17, I would have been sent to a labor camp instead of a university.
 
2012-11-13 06:02:26 PM  
'Flipping burgers' isn't a practical remedy in a country saturated with guest workers, is it?
 
2012-11-13 06:03:13 PM  
I only spent $85,000 on my masters in puppetry. Children deserve to be happy! I am that enabler. By allowing me to trade in my master of puppets degree, I can make children happy, and thereby make the world happy! That's gotta be worth $85k.

/Post-Napster Metallica sucks
 
2012-11-13 06:03:33 PM  
No symping farkathy here.

I graduated into the teeth of Nixon's recession with $100 in my pocket, no debts and a 5--year--old car.

There were no jobs for educated people so I had to work for two years as a laborer before I could stack up enough money to leave that dead--end town.

Suck it up crybabies, you make me flucking sick.
 
2012-11-13 06:03:33 PM  

jgi: Serious question: if you don't pay back your student loans, the government can garnish your wages. What happens if you're self-employed, freelance, own your own business?


Serious answer: They can put a lien on any future property you may own, your business profits, etc. So that if in the future you sell your business, for instance, they have a right to whatever your share would have been before you get anything. Or if you were buying a house and someday hoped to sell it, there's going to be a judgment lien on it before the bank gets any. Stuff like that.
 
2012-11-13 06:05:05 PM  
Regionalism seems to play a role in this. In a first-world American city, 'flipping burgers' just isn't gonna cover the rent.
 
2012-11-13 06:05:12 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: Fell In Love With a Chair: Get over yourself, kid. You're not too good to make fries.

I can't remember where I read it, but I do remember reading an article that made a whole lot of sense that said that it's really no wonder that there is an entire generation that thinks that it is above flipping burgers because for their entire lives that they are above flipping burgers. "You'd better go to school, you'd better get a degree, you don't want to spend your life flipping burgers, do you?" Now, it's not true and they are going to get a quick reality check, but can you really put to much blame on them for thinking like that when that's the only way they have been taught to think?


I'd flip burgers. I'd flip burgers right now. I'd do it for twelve straight hours. For the love of god, if you know someone who needs burgers flipped, I'll do it. Partly why I can't get hired is because I have literally no burger flipping experience. At 16 I was the IT person/webmaster for a medium sized local business (Mustang Motorcycle Seats, actually). I'd flip every farking burger I swear to god I'm so desperate. I can't even sell my farking jalopy car for enough money to pay this shiat off. I need it though to live in, in case my ex decides she doesn't want me around any longer.
 
2012-11-13 06:07:22 PM  
I saw a flyer on a lamp post here in Minneapolis with some garbage about "unfair student loans" and getting Obama to do something about them. Shut up, idiots. No one forced you to take anything. Shut up and pay what you owe. That being said, if they succeeded in some fantasy world, you bet your ass I'd get in on that. I guess I'm the Ron Paul of student loan forgiveness. But the people screaming "Student loans are immoral" and shiat like that are dumbfarks.
 
2012-11-13 06:07:30 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.


Have you looked into IBR? aka Income-Based Repayment: http://www.ibrinfo.org/

Or are your lender(s) not public? I transferred my Stafford loans to DirectLoan (Federal) and then started the IBR plan. This is relatively new stuff (thanks Obama!). If you do IBR and make all payments, which can be very low or even zero if you don't work or have a crap job, they will forgive the remaining after 20 (25?) years of payments. If you get a job with a nonprofit, govt, or school, you can also get Public Service Loan Forgiveness, where it's 10 years.

/not intended as professional advice
 
2012-11-13 06:07:50 PM  

I_Hate_Iowa: I saw a flyer on a lamp post here in Minneapolis with some garbage about "unfair student loans" and getting Obama to do something about them. Shut up, idiots. No one forced you to take anything. Shut up and pay what you owe. That being said, if they succeeded in some fantasy world, you bet your ass I'd get in on that. I guess I'm the Ron Paul of student loan forgiveness. But the people screaming "Student loans are immoral" and shiat like that are dumbfarks.


fark you.
 
2012-11-13 06:07:59 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: I will probably have to get a restraining order.

Sallie Mae?
Here's what you do:
1) Income sensitive repayment play
Got no money to spare?
2) Hardship deferral.

I tried, they said I was ineligible and said I could push my payment back as far as the 15th. When I first got out of college, I had difficulty finding work and had to use my deferment at that time. I guess everyone gets one. Exactly one. Because my parents are capable of paying, I'm not eligible for income sensitive things. Unfortunately, we are almost completely estranged. They are hardcore republican fundamentalists, and I'm gay. Yesterday my mom told me I was an abomination to the lord and doesn't know where she went wrong. If I told her I was gay at 17, I would have been sent to a labor camp instead of a university.


HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: I will probably have to get a restraining order.

Sallie Mae is a bunch of dicks, and it sounds like your parents are too.

That being said, if you have 10 years in IT experience, I'd be interested in seeing your resume. My company is hiring a bunch of IT folks in the next year. No guarantees, of course, but I'd like to help if I can.

 
2012-11-13 06:08:39 PM  

olddinosaur: No symping farkathy here.

I graduated into the teeth of Nixon's recession with $100 in my pocket, no debts and a 5--year--old car.

There were no jobs for educated people so I had to work for two years as a laborer before I could stack up enough money to leave that dead--end town.

Suck it up crybabies, you make me flucking sick.


Do you honestly think that the debt incurred back then and the price of tuition is even close to the same? Before you answer, tuition has increased at twice the rate of normal inflation since 1970,

Since 1970 tuition and fees at UT have risen for undergraduates, the increase has been around 400 percent. In 1970, tuition was $50 for any in-state student enrolled in any college or school for any number of credit hours. Fees were $54 for anyone enrolled at the University. In the Fall semester of 2002, you won't get a twelve hour course load for less than $2,300.
 
2012-11-13 06:08:48 PM  
Might be a stupid question, but at least it's an honest one: when was the last time a petition on the federal level actually changed anything? I seem to recall the Bush administration turning away petitions in droves, basically rendering them pointless.
 
2012-11-13 06:08:50 PM  

Mr_Juche: So I heard something a little while ago that I thought would be interesting to try. I was listening to Minnesota Public Radio and they were talking to three foreign reporters to get an outsiders perspective of the election. One of them was from Australia. When the topic of university debt came up, he talked about how they handled it. I believe that, if you go to a public university in Australia there is no tuition. However, after you graduate and your income reaches a certain level the cost is added to your income tax bill. I think it was something like an added two or three percent added per year. While I obviously don't have the specifics, it would be interesting to see if that could work here.


Hearing what you wrote here, I thought it would be interesting if what *we* did instead of tuition was that whatever University you went to got 1% of your salary for the next 40 years, but only if it was over a certain amount. -Say 20% above the average salary for the nation.

$100,000 a year job means only $1,000... Over 40 years, that's $40,000.

Obviously the numbers would have to be made out of something rather than thin air, but this system might encourage Universities to be more interested in what their grads were doing once they left school.
 
2012-11-13 06:09:47 PM  
afterthekidsleave.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-13 06:11:11 PM  

signaljammer: 'Flipping burgers' isn't a practical remedy in a country saturated with guest workers, is it?


Also it's hard for someone with a college degree to get a burger flipping job because they're overqualified. They know you will drop them in a second to work in your field (assuming you didn't get a degree in high heat grease dispensing).
 
2012-11-13 06:11:15 PM  
There are a few ways to reduce your tuition:

1) go to a state university
2) go to a vocational school/community college
3) don't take fluff courses
4) don't fail a course and have to retake a course
4a) stop treating college/university as a 7 year party and graduate as fast as you can
 
2012-11-13 06:11:45 PM  
Dot Com Bubble...

Housing Bubble...

Student Loan Bubble...
 
2012-11-13 06:11:47 PM  

CujoQuarrel: Just checked the local Comm College and it's rates still seem reasonable (about 2k a semester) and the local University (about 4k a semester). This is for state residents.

So how did you guys get into so much debt?


out of state or private schools. And some people think spending 2 years at a CC makes you a failure.
 
2012-11-13 06:11:52 PM  
It seems keeping an eye on petitions to the WH is gonna keep fark amused.
 
2012-11-13 06:13:57 PM  

rf134a: I only spent $85,000 on my masters in puppetry. Children deserve to be happy! I am that enabler. By allowing me to trade in my master of puppets degree, I can make children happy, and thereby make the world happy! That's gotta be worth $85k.

/Post-Napster Metallica sucks


Get ordained and you could become a Pastor of Muppets.
 
2012-11-13 06:14:07 PM  

jgi: Serious question: if you don't pay back your student loans, the government can garnish your wages. What happens if you're self-employed, freelance, own your own business?


They still garnish your wages, and if you get caught lying on your taxes about how much you pay yourself, they send you to jail.

/good luck with that.
 
2012-11-13 06:14:37 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: I will probably have to get a restraining order.

....

If I told her I was gay at 17, I would have been sent to a labor camp instead of a university.



But look at the bright side. If you had been sent to the labor camp you wouldn't owe all that money and would have learned useful skills.
 
2012-11-13 06:14:51 PM  

Broktun: When is the Student Loan Bubble (SLB) going to pop?


Soon.
 
2012-11-13 06:16:13 PM  
I'd like to trade in the pitiful education I received when Reagan was governor of California and get back the 5,000 acres of land my family donated to the city of Los Angeles for the 'betterment of our fellow Americans' *Rolls eyes*.

I'd like Ventura Boulevard gift-wrapped please.
 
2012-11-13 06:16:14 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.

Seems like plenty of people in this thread are ready to pass a snap judgement that anyone crushed by a $44k debt clean out of college is just a lazy asshole. You sound like my parents, completely out of touch with reality. Just go down to the Wal-mart and get a job with those groceries. Saying you're "over-qualified" is narcissistic bullshiat, they TOOOTALLY hire people with four year degrees to stock shelves. Get over yourself, kid. You're not too good to make fries.

Even with a bachelor's degree, 10+ years of experience in my field (IT/Networking), clean drug/background/dmv screens, a willingness to work for just barely above minimum wage, and I'm STILL having a hard time finding work. Meanwhile Sallie Mae wants $500 a month. My income is next to nothing, I do art commissions for $10-20 bucks a pop. I'll do literally anything legal for money, $500/mo is more than my rent by a fair share. I live with my ex-girlfriend. She pays my rent still. I don't know why.

I've never been on welfare, foodstamps, and apart from two months on unemployment years ago, I've paid tens of thousands of dollars into the system and asked for less than a grand in return over the 12 years I've been employed.

fark you people.

I'm 28 years old and at this rate I will never own a house or a new car. I cannot get out from under this debt. I signed my tuition papers at 17, not understanding what would happen, or how this impacted my future. I was a child and we were told IF YOU DO NOT GO TO COLLEGE, YOU WON'T GET WORK. Now graduates are told "Without experience, you will not get hired". How do you get experience in your field without having a job in the first place? I am one of the lucky ones, I have the experience, but get passed over for being a young woman, and only having my A+ certification, because I can't aff ...


Looks at profile....how about you get a haircut and take the shiat out of your face and ears and then look for a job,
 
2012-11-13 06:16:33 PM  

Primum: Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.

Have you looked into IBR? aka Income-Based Repayment: http://www.ibrinfo.org/

Or are your lender(s) not public? I transferred my Stafford loans to DirectLoan (Federal) and then started the IBR plan. This is relatively new stuff (thanks Obama!). If you do IBR and make all payments, which can be very low or even zero if you don't work or have a crap job, they will forgive the remaining after 20 (25?) years of payments. If you get a job with a nonprofit, govt, or school, you can also get Public Service Loan Forgiveness, where it's 10 years.

/not intended as professional advice


Any advice is welcome, I literally have people threatening to abduct me over this and have nothing left to sell. I have private loans from Sallie Mae, and paid off my first year with some kind of grant because I managed to maintain a 4.0. I wish I hadn't let my parents handle it. I wish I'd know that I was farking up the rest of my life to the point of no escape. I can't even kill myself to get out of this debt, it'd just go back on my parents.

Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.
 
2012-11-13 06:17:04 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: I'd flip burgers.


Sure, you would. I would too (I actually did something similar, I went back to a manufacturing job when one I went to school for fell through, and back to roofing when it happened again). But you and I know that we aren't above doing menial labor if we need to do so. But my point is, if you had the idea that you were above it drilled into your skull for 18-20 years, what would your attitude be? I'm betting it would be very similar to a lot of younger people today, the idea that they can go do something 'below' them never even occurs to them, because that's how they've been trained to think. It's not a good way to think, but there it is anyway. We'd all be better if we explained why that sort of thinking is wrong instead of yelling at them for thinking that way.
 
2012-11-13 06:17:27 PM  
How many people think that whoever put this petition out is actually serious? Does anybody think that this is just a troll that is responding to the other dumb petitions, like the secession one, that are being posted?
 
2012-11-13 06:17:33 PM  

jgi: Serious question: if you don't pay back your student loans, the government can garnish your wages. What happens if you're self-employed, freelance, own your own business?


If you are a DBA they can simply garnish your bank accounts. If you have a business entity that entity is named in the garnishee summons and becomes liable in the event that the garnishment isn't answered. Your only hope of escape is to be self employed and keep your money under the mattress.

If you get to the point where your wages are garnished your only real option is to get on a payment plan and stick to it. Every garnishment just adds hundreds of dollars in fees and other charges.
 
2012-11-13 06:17:52 PM  

CujoQuarrel: Fell In Love With a Chair: HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: I will probably have to get a restraining order.

....

If I told her I was gay at 17, I would have been sent to a labor camp instead of a university.


But look at the bright side. If you had been sent to the labor camp you wouldn't owe all that money and would have learned useful skills.


Most people leave those with PTSD or just plain kill themselves. We had to bail a friend out of one once, it wasn't pretty.
 
2012-11-13 06:17:58 PM  
Does this absolve me of my family obligation for the national debt. Cause I like this petition, as my current student loan debt is lower.
 
2012-11-13 06:19:14 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Seems like plenty of people in this thread are ready to pass a snap judgement that anyone crushed by a $44k debt clean out of college is just a lazy asshole. You sound like my parents, completely out of touch with reality. Just go down to the Wal-mart and get a job with those groceries. Saying you're "over-qualified" is narcissistic bullshiat, they TOOOTALLY hire people with four year degrees to stock shelves. Get over yourself, kid. You're not too good to make fries.


What the average champion of "RARGH WHY CAN'T YOU JUST USE THE G.I. BILL LIKE I DID" fails to realize is that if the "powers that be" have their way, the only jobs left are going to be the shelf stockers. The George Carlin routine pretty much stands true.

They DON'T want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that, that doesn't help them. That's against their interests. That's right. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they're getting farkED by system that threw them overboard 30 farkin' years ago. They don't want that. You know what they want? They want OBEDIENT WORKERS. OBEDIENT WORKERS. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passably accept all these increasingly shiattier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime, and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And now they're comin' for your SOCIAL SECURITY MONEY. They want your farkin' retirement money. They want it BACK. So they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They'll get it. They'll get it ALL from you sooner or later -- 'cuz they OWN this farkin' place. It's a big CLUB. And YOU AIN'T IN IT. You and I are NOT IN the big club.

But please, older America, continue to lecture people on how taking a minimum wage job is eventually going to get people to the promised land. Because it's not.

Noticeably F.A.T.: I can't remember where I read it, but I do remember reading an article that made a whole lot of sense that said that it's really no wonder that there is an entire generation that thinks that it is above flipping burgers because for their entire lives that they are above flipping burgers. "You'd better go to school, you'd better get a degree, you don't want to spend your life flipping burgers, do you?" Now, it's not true and they are going to get a quick reality check, but can you really put to much blame on them for thinking like that when that's the only way they have been taught to think?


libranoelrose: afterthekidsleave.files.wordpress.com


Ding, ding, ding.
 
2012-11-13 06:19:40 PM  

Elandriel: nekom: Alternate idea: Allow it to be discharged in a 13. Reasonable payments based on the particular situation for, what 5 years for a 13? I agree they shouldn't be able to discharge it right after receiving their education, it shouldn't be allowed to be done in bad faith. But for some people, it is absolutely the best option not currently available to them.

I know the argument is essentially "The debtor has received a [tangible] service and/or product to which the creditor has no recompense" but then you know what? Maybe don't make your farking school so expensive.

And of course, if anyone wants to know the real reason why tuition rates have skyrocketed, look no further than the fact that you can not ever, ever escape them, even through bankruptcy, and in some cases death.


This.

I am in a bad student debt situation. Not only does my law degree dictate that I should be making more than an assistant manager at McDonald's, but my 5 years experience should, too. But thanks to the crashed economy, I have to compete with the 60 year old morons who lost everything in the housing bubble.

I gambled, I lost. The only difference is that the farktards who lost their pensions and huge ass homes and other moronic debt get to discharge it in bankruptcy.

Boomers screw us again.
 
2012-11-13 06:19:44 PM  

CujoQuarrel: Just checked the local Comm College and it's rates still seem reasonable (about 2k a semester) and the local University (about 4k a semester). This is for state residents.

So how did you guys get into so much debt?


4k tuition a semester for a 4 year degree means 32k on tuition alone. Adding books, fees, room and board about doubles that. Typical payment on a 60k plus loan is something in the neighborhodd of $600/month.
 
2012-11-13 06:20:16 PM  

KidneyStone: Looks at profile....how about you get a haircut and take the shiat out of your face and ears and then look for a job,

Submitted links approved: 11


Stopped caring there.
 
2012-11-13 06:20:29 PM  

KidneyStone: Looks at profile....how about you get a haircut and take the shiat out of your face and ears and then look for a job,


Hey, guess what? That's what I look like in my FREE TIME. When I am on the job, I dress and style like a BUSINESS PROFESSIONAL. Thanks for looking at me in my pjs with my kitty and making baseless assumptions. I'm gonna go ahead and guess you're a dickweed, how'd that feel?
 
2012-11-13 06:20:31 PM  
I majored in Criminal Justice in college, but ended up having to drop out when my family moved out of town, my rent skyrocketed, and I ended up having to work two minimum wage jobs to make ends meet.

I tried paying off my loans...for a while. But the cost of living in a college town quickly put an end to that and I slid into default. That was ten years ago. Today I am unemployed, living with my in-laws in a jobless town, broken, pathetic, lost, aimless and goalless. My credit is utterly destroyed and a lot of employers have turned me down based on that alone. My student loans have repeatedly kept me from work and the loan company refuses to work with me on them.

I am only in my mid-30s and I am already in a deep dark hole from which there is no possible escape. I am somberly beginning to accept the fact that I will never have a job that isn't entry-level, menial, and minimum wage (if I'm ever able to find one at all)). I will never be able to really provide for my wife and will never own a home. If I am ever able to buy a car again, it will end up being a shiatty hand-me-down from a sympathetic friend. I will never retire, I will never be able to take care of my aging parents, I will never be able to afford to start a family, and I will never be able to afford (much needed) healthcare. I am utterly and completely f*cked for the rest of my life, and I can't even kill myself because the debt would just be passed on to my next of kin.

And all because I made the stupid, stupid, STUPID decision to try to better myself and get into a career where I could help people.
 
2012-11-13 06:21:08 PM  

nekom: I'd go a step further. Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be. You have no idea how many people this would help.

Oh, and I went to college WITHOUT any loans, so I am more than entitled to this opinion. Let 'em BK7 them, it's not without its consequences. Some people are absolutely CRIPPLED by this. Yes, there is the personal responsibility angle, but how many 18 year old kids are really capable of making a decision that can literally haunt them for the rest of their lives? Give them a break, a way out. The whole system is crap.



Like joining the military to pay for college?

/Most colleges are handicap accessible
 
2012-11-13 06:21:17 PM  
I'm working for a degree in IT and have a research job at my university, so I'm getting a real kick...

/$20 says there are a lot of journalism students on that list.
 
2012-11-13 06:21:23 PM  

nekom: I'd go a step further. Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be. You have no idea how many people this would help.

Oh, and I went to college WITHOUT any loans, so I am more than entitled to this opinion. Let 'em BK7 them, it's not without its consequences. Some people are absolutely CRIPPLED by this. Yes, there is the personal responsibility angle, but how many 18 year old kids are really capable of making a decision that can literally haunt them for the rest of their lives? Give them a break, a way out. The whole system is crap.


I don't disagree that there is a problem with school, and the loan system...


The problem is that I can easily imagine an entire wave of students taking out huge student loans (every last possible penny) and credit cards, and car loans, and whatever else for 4 years.... graduating, then filing for bankruptcy at age 21 or 22 (so long and thanks for all the fish) to discharge it all. How many 21 year olds care that their credit is in the 500s or they can't get a mortgage for 5-7 years?
 
2012-11-13 06:21:36 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.


Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.
 
2012-11-13 06:21:48 PM  

Spanky_McFarksalot: knbber2: Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee, to hell with personal responsibility.

sounds to me like a whinny republican trying to make a point.

and failing as they usually do


Excellent retort.
 
2012-11-13 06:22:46 PM  

olddinosaur: No symping farkathy here.

I graduated into the teeth of Nixon's recession with $100 in my pocket, no debts and a 5--year--old car.

There were no jobs for educated people so I had to work for two years as a laborer before I could stack up enough money to leave that dead--end town.

Suck it up crybabies, you make me flucking sick.


$550 in the pocket (equivalent to $100 in 1972 dollars), no debt, an old car, and steady work as a shiat-shoveler would be a considerable step up for a lot of people coming out of school these days. Some folks I know and care about are in worse situations than Fell In Love with a Chair up above. Comments like yours only show how out-of-touch the boomer generation is with the problems of young people trying to gain more than a tenuous foothold. The system as it is is farked, and attitudes like yours are not helping.


And for the record, I have a ~$1,600 monthly law school loan payment that I pay in full and then some every month - a ten-year note that I should have killed in 6 or so at the rate I'm going. So I'll tell you in advance not to waste your breath on the lectures about responsibility.
 
2012-11-13 06:22:53 PM  

brittmule:
Sallie Mae is a bunch of dicks, and it sounds like your parents are too.

That being said, if you have 10 years in IT experience, I'd be interested in seeing your resume. My company is hiring a bunch of IT folks in the next year. No guarantees, of course, but I'd like to help if I can.


Holy shiat! That's amazing- anything helps, and in this industry networking is extremely important in times like these. I'll email you ASAP.
 
2012-11-13 06:24:23 PM  

Blues_X: nekom: Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be

That.



What? And lose out on a generation of indentured servants?
 
2012-11-13 06:25:38 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: KidneyStone: Looks at profile....how about you get a haircut and take the shiat out of your face and ears and then look for a job,

Hey, guess what? That's what I look like in my FREE TIME. When I am on the job, I dress and style like a BUSINESS PROFESSIONAL. Thanks for looking at me in my pjs with my kitty and making baseless assumptions. I'm gonna go ahead and guess you're a dickweed, how'd that feel?


Hey wait.
She's busted broke but can afford Total Fark so that we mere liters can't see her profile, which is apparently hideous?

The irony is rather delicious.
 
2012-11-13 06:25:41 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.


Only if the loans are federal. She says they're private debt, which is much, much worse. They won't work with you like the DoE servicers will, and the loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.
 
2012-11-13 06:26:39 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.


I was told on the phone that I still don't meet the criteria because my cosigner isn't in hardship (they're just estranged/disowned) and since they're private loans apparently I don't qualify for having used a hardship deferral in the past.
 
2012-11-13 06:26:58 PM  

Russky: olddinosaur: No symping farkathy here.

I graduated into the teeth of Nixon's recession with $100 in my pocket, no debts and a 5--year--old car.

There were no jobs for educated people so I had to work for two years as a laborer before I could stack up enough money to leave that dead--end town.

Suck it up crybabies, you make me flucking sick.

Do you honestly think that the debt incurred back then and the price of tuition is even close to the same? Before you answer, tuition has increased at twice the rate of normal inflation since 1970,

Since 1970 tuition and fees at UT have risen for undergraduates, the increase has been around 400 percent. In 1970, tuition was $50 for any in-state student enrolled in any college or school for any number of credit hours. Fees were $54 for anyone enrolled at the University. In the Fall semester of 2002, you won't get a twelve hour course load for less than $2,300.


When I graduated from the UT system (Midwestern State) in 1972, payout was about $125/semester and jobs paying $120--$1.50 an hour were available if you didn't mind eating sh*t with a smile on your face.

When I got fired from Halliburton in 1974, I was heavily in debt and went on a refinery turnaround for $9.50 an hour, 12 hrs a day 7 days a week. That lasted 3 weeks and paid slightly under $3000 in 1974 money. It wiped out all my debts with a little left over.

You're right it is somewhat harder for young people today, but the money is out there if you look.
 
2012-11-13 06:27:11 PM  

Amos Quito: What? And lose out on a generation of indentured servants?


Even the CSS was concerned about being outnumbered by its slaves.
 
jgi
2012-11-13 06:27:12 PM  

Gyrfalcon: jgi: Serious question: if you don't pay back your student loans, the government can garnish your wages. What happens if you're self-employed, freelance, own your own business?

Serious answer: They can put a lien on any future property you may own, your business profits, etc. So that if in the future you sell your business, for instance, they have a right to whatever your share would have been before you get anything. Or if you were buying a house and someday hoped to sell it, there's going to be a judgment lien on it before the bank gets any. Stuff like that.


Okay, and if you go the mafia route and put nothing (or very little) in your own name? I'm only asking to get a grasp on what the government could actually do. You're speaking in hypotheticals -- "you buy a house and someday hope to sell it." What if you buy a house and never plan to sell it? What if you don't sell your business? You're not going to prison for not paying. It's not the same as screwing over the IRS and getting busted for tax evasion.

I was recently at a friend's house and happened to see a student loan letter on the counter (it was out in the open) and read a little bit of it. It seems to me she stopped paying and they were offering her a hugely discounted rate just to get her to pay something. I think this was a private company (the school's name was on the letter, actually), though, not the federal government. Anyway, this friend is a bartender and as such I'm guessing earns most of her money in cash. While I wouldn't want to be in her shoes, I found myself wondering just what could be done to you if you decided to not pay and construct your life in a way that would make it difficult for anybody to collect.

I had a boss one time (small business) who, when I asked what she thought about paying student loans, she said to just not pay them. Maybe she was just being capricious at the time when I asked and has since paid hers, but her business has been hugely successful and as far as I can tell has found herself in even greater financial success. You run your own show, live a certain way, and avoid paying the loans.

I agree with paying back your loans if you agreed to them, from a moral standpoint, but sometimes I feel those morals faltering when I also consider that I feel it amoral to charge as much as schools do to 18 year olds and pile on the interest. It's becoming a grey area for me. Not to bring politics into it too much, but if a serious presidential candidate can get away with not paying taxes through various loopholes and constructing his life in such a way that it's possible, why can't the little guy save himself some money through a bit of financial jujitsu?
 
2012-11-13 06:27:28 PM  
http://blog.al.com/breaking/2012/11/alabama_computer_student_pays.htm l

Young Huntsville-area computer scientist Jonathan Hood went a different way. Hood paid most of his Auburn tuition - almost $4,000 -- with rebates from on-line shopping. "Probably 200 or 300 of them," he said Monday.

"Not all of them were debit cards," Hood said. But a lot of them - more than 100 - were debit cards loaded with rebate money. The cards arrived in Hood's mailbox after he found his own way to turn brain power and effort into the cash to pay for a Phd in computer science from Auburn.
 
2012-11-13 06:27:47 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: KidneyStone: Looks at profile....how about you get a haircut and take the shiat out of your face and ears and then look for a job,

Hey, guess what? That's what I look like in my FREE TIME. When I am on the job, I dress and style like a BUSINESS PROFESSIONAL. Thanks for looking at me in my pjs with my kitty and making baseless assumptions. I'm gonna go ahead and guess you're a dickweed, how'd that feel?

Hey wait.
She's busted broke but can afford Total Fark so that we mere liters can't see her profile, which is apparently hideous?

The irony is rather delicious.


I skipped eating for two days so I could ask a question in TFD about wether or not I was getting ripped off at the mechanic. I have it budgeted so I can eat for $2/day right now, but I'm probably going to have to cut back soon.
 
2012-11-13 06:28:12 PM  

kxs401: Only if the loans are federal. She says they're private debt, which is much, much worse. They won't work with you like the DoE servicers will, and the loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.


She said Sallie Mae is holding the loans. Sallie Mae holds my loans and so I know what's possible with Sallie Mae. Am I somehow wrong about that?
 
2012-11-13 06:29:00 PM  
Learn to weld, and join a union. You'll be able to pay off those pesky loans in no time. You'll make ALOT more then flipping burgers.
 
2012-11-13 06:29:03 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.

I was told on the phone that I still don't meet the criteria because my cosigner isn't in hardship (they're just estranged/disowned) and since they're private loans apparently I don't qualify for having used a hardship deferral in the past.


If your parents cosigned, they should help you out with the loans. It will negatively affect your parents' credit if the loans aren't paid on time.
 
2012-11-13 06:29:07 PM  

Miss Stein: In an alternate universe, BYU coeds petition President Romney to refund 100% of their tuition in trade for husbands.


Keyboard. You owe me one.
 
2012-11-13 06:29:35 PM  
They paid their tuitions to Obama? Idiots don't deserve a diploma.
 
2012-11-13 06:30:38 PM  

Shyla: They paid their tuitions to Obama? Idiots don't deserve a diploma.

Location: Kentucky


Argument destroyed. Please delete your account before the Feds take action.
 
2012-11-13 06:30:52 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: kxs401: Only if the loans are federal. She says they're private debt, which is much, much worse. They won't work with you like the DoE servicers will, and the loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.

She said Sallie Mae is holding the loans. Sallie Mae holds my loans and so I know what's possible with Sallie Mae. Am I somehow wrong about that?


Sallie Mae service both federally-owned and privately-owned loans. What kinds of deferments and forebearances and how many you can get are determined by who owns the loan (with some variation among servicers).

I briefly worked for one of the four federal student loan servicers.
 
2012-11-13 06:31:04 PM  
Wait.... liters can't see my profile? O_o I'll go check some settings, I guess. I'm not hideous, I'm just not gussied up in the pictures. Makeup costs money. I'm told I clean up well, however, and obviously don't wear piercings to work because that would be farking stupid.
 
2012-11-13 06:31:17 PM  
I have to wonder, are student loans being "bundled" and bought and sold as commodities like sub-prime mortgages of a few rears back?

Goldman?

AIG?
 
2012-11-13 06:31:20 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: I_Hate_Iowa: I saw a flyer on a lamp post here in Minneapolis with some garbage about "unfair student loans" and getting Obama to do something about them. Shut up, idiots. No one forced you to take anything. Shut up and pay what you owe. That being said, if they succeeded in some fantasy world, you bet your ass I'd get in on that. I guess I'm the Ron Paul of student loan forgiveness. But the people screaming "Student loans are immoral" and shiat like that are dumbfarks.

fark you.


I understand the sentiment. I came on strong and didn't quite explain myself. You obviously are having a rough go at it. But I know people here who have jobs and can pay their loans and still biatch that they shouldn't have to do that. Those are the assholes I want to shut up. Sorry.
 
2012-11-13 06:31:46 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.

I was told on the phone that I still don't meet the criteria because my cosigner isn't in hardship (they're just estranged/disowned) and since they're private loans apparently I don't qualify for having used a hardship deferral in the past.


I see. The cosiger part was the mistake.
Sorry.
 
2012-11-13 06:32:14 PM  
Another country that is able to scrape by in the dark while providing free college: Germany.
 
2012-11-13 06:32:29 PM  
/cosigner, i mean.
 
2012-11-13 06:32:47 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Primum: Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.

Have you looked into IBR? aka Income-Based Repayment: http://www.ibrinfo.org/

Or are your lender(s) not public? I transferred my Stafford loans to DirectLoan (Federal) and then started the IBR plan. This is relatively new stuff (thanks Obama!). If you do IBR and make all payments, which can be very low or even zero if you don't work or have a crap job, they will forgive the remaining after 20 (25?) years of payments. If you get a job with a nonprofit, govt, or school, you can also get Public Service Loan Forgiveness, where it's 10 years.

/not intended as professional advice

Any advice is welcome, I literally have people threatening to abduct me over this and have nothing left to sell. I have private loans from Sallie Mae, and paid off my first year with some kind of grant because I managed to maintain a 4.0. I wish I hadn't let my parents handle it. I wish I'd know that I was farking up the rest of my life to the point of no escape. I can't even kill myself to get out of this debt, it'd just go back on my parents.

Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.


Uh, is that you in your profile pic? Cut your hair, take out the facial piercings, and cover the tats when you go on a job interview. I don't care what you're applying for or how much you want to stick it to "the man", when you go for an interview you need to look like White Bread America.

Update your resume. What have you been doing since you got out of school? Got any professional references? Your parents, friends and buds from college won't cut it anymore. You need somebody who works in the field, and ideally someone with more than 10 years on the job. Got letters of reference? If not, get some pronto. Make sure you put in any relevant volunteer work--it's better than having to explain three years of sitting on your ass.

Call Sallie Mae, and don't talk to anyone who isn't an actual American person who works in the US. Tell them what's going on. Have you used up your unemployment deferments? Ask about making interest-only payments if you can't get full deferments. Ask about income-based payments. Tell them you're not working and tell them you'll pay what you can. Don't let them scare you: Remember, you can't go to prison for non-payment and they can't threaten you with anything. Record your conversations. If they start harassing you, tell them to stop. If they don't, send them a "cease and desist" letter. Even Sallie Mae has to obey such a letter, as long as it contains the words "cease and desist". Sometimes just threatening to do so will work--it did for me.

Above all, stay in contact with them. Don't just blow off the letters and phone calls. Get the name of your account handler, and talk to THAT PERSON, no one else. Don't let them put you through to various call centers and offices. Deal with one person, not sixteen. Keep all your paperwork in order, or if you do it all online, print everything and keep it filed.

The worst that can happen is that they take you to court, get a judgment against you and put liens on any future property you own; this will f*ck your credit rating for the rest of your life, but will otherwise not impact your life. It is not illegal to be unable to pay a judgment (although it is illegal to REFUSE to pay one if you are able to do so). And it IS illegal to harass you if you have indicated you cannot pay and have made honest and reasonable efforts to communicate with your creditors. So don't give up.
 
2012-11-13 06:33:29 PM  

I_Hate_Iowa: Fell In Love With a Chair: I_Hate_Iowa: I saw a flyer on a lamp post here in Minneapolis with some garbage about "unfair student loans" and getting Obama to do something about them. Shut up, idiots. No one forced you to take anything. Shut up and pay what you owe. That being said, if they succeeded in some fantasy world, you bet your ass I'd get in on that. I guess I'm the Ron Paul of student loan forgiveness. But the people screaming "Student loans are immoral" and shiat like that are dumbfarks.

fark you.

I understand the sentiment. I came on strong and didn't quite explain myself. You obviously are having a rough go at it. But I know people here who have jobs and can pay their loans and still biatch that they shouldn't have to do that. Those are the assholes I want to shut up. Sorry.


The problem is, the easy availability of student loans has allowed college costs to get out of control, and college degrees are increasingly crucial. An individual student is in a tough spot -- we need jobs, which means we need loans.
 
2012-11-13 06:34:16 PM  

Ego edo infantia cattus: Might be a stupid question, but at least it's an honest one: when was the last time a petition on the federal level actually changed anything? I seem to recall the Bush administration turning away petitions in droves, basically rendering them pointless.


Got the White House Homebrew recipe released, iirc
 
2012-11-13 06:34:59 PM  
That makes no farking sense!!
 
2012-11-13 06:35:07 PM  

vygramul: I'm going to start a petition to end these stupid-ass petitions.


I'd sign it, but i'm against petitions.
 
2012-11-13 06:35:14 PM  

Amos Quito: I have to wonder, are student loans being "bundled" and bought and sold as commodities like sub-prime mortgages of a few rears back?

Goldman?

AIG?


If so, those bonds are triple-platinumAAAA rated.
Being as they are based on bond servitude.
 
2012-11-13 06:35:30 PM  

Elandriel: the only way to get that piece of paper is to place yourself in the amount of debt similar to a goddamn home mortgage.


SUNY-Binghamton has an annual in-state tuition + fees of ~$7,500.

After Pell, etc., I'd like to see the home we're talking about here. What, is it a foreclosure in Detroit, full of meth addict squatters busily stripping the wiring and pipes?

Knock off your general education at community college and you should be in the range of a fairly humble new car, tops. A Hyundai, maybe.
 
2012-11-13 06:36:49 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Even with a bachelor's degree, 10+ years of experience in my field (IT/Networking), clean drug/background/dmv screens, a willingness to work for just barely above minimum wage, and I'm STILL having a hard time finding work.


Have you considered a career in killbots?
The makers of killbots are hiring and very much like having women employees.

You may have to relocate.
 
2012-11-13 06:37:33 PM  

kxs401: Fell In Love With a Chair: HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.

I was told on the phone that I still don't meet the criteria because my cosigner isn't in hardship (they're just estranged/disowned) and since they're private loans apparently I don't qualify for having used a hardship deferral in the past.

If your parents cosigned, they should help you out with the loans. It will negatively affect your parents' credit if the loans aren't paid on time.


You betcha, even if you send those farkers your last $80.

Then they call your folks, they pay $800, call you up screaming and tell you they're going to take you away from your partner, your house, your family, friends and support network, and make you live in their house in the middle of the woods on the complete opposite coast with no car, no possessions, and lots and lots of Jesus to pray the gay away while you get a job "somewhere in town" ten miles away.

Difficulty: no car, no sidewalks, and they're under a foot of snow already. I have decent outdoor survival skills but my mom works for the PD so if I did end up having to make an escape attempt, I wouldn't make it to the main road before I got caught. I have pals in NYC who're ready to come get me back if my partner tells them I went missing out here in CA.
 
2012-11-13 06:38:18 PM  

Mike_LowELL: They want OBEDIENT WORKERS. OBEDIENT WORKERS. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passably accept all these increasingly shiattier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime, and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it


Mike_LowELL: But please, older America, continue to lecture people on how taking a minimum wage job is eventually going to get people to the promised land. Because it's not.


Quoting the relevant parts.

I think I'm considered older america...I dunno. I'm 40.

I'm making a six figure income with stock and bonuses and have been for quite some time. If you look at my yearly SS statement, you'll see my income, with the exception of two years (unemployed for 8 months), my salary has only gone up.

Money, however, is not my measure of success and it never was and I'm starting to wonder if THAT is the attitude that got me where I am today.

I can't say that working a minimum wage job will start you on the path to "success" but I can definitely say that sticking to your values, looking out for others and thinking about the big picture outside your own selfish world will get you further than you believe. But it has to be genuine...you have to change yourself for real, not just go through the motions.

I'm not religious but that character is what I attribute to my success; however you define it.

My only advice as an "older american" is that hard work and focusing on the positive will get you further in life than where you are now. No big promises of riches, but it won't hurt to get rid of the excuses with which you hold yourself back.

/I do not have student loans
//I am not blind to the fact that everyone's lives are different
///One note: I literally grew up dirt floor poor. Seriously, my house growing up in Texas had a dirt floor until we could afford a trailer. That's where I started my life...I would gladly tell my whole story but only as advice; your life is different.
 
2012-11-13 06:40:01 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: brittmule:
Sallie Mae is a bunch of dicks, and it sounds like your parents are too.

That being said, if you have 10 years in IT experience, I'd be interested in seeing your resume. My company is hiring a bunch of IT folks in the next year. No guarantees, of course, but I'd like to help if I can.

Holy shiat! That's amazing- anything helps, and in this industry networking is extremely important in times like these. I'll email you ASAP.


Sweet! I'll try to put in some referrals tomorrow. Just make sure your name, address, etc is there.

Annnnnd now I sound like a stalker.
 
2012-11-13 06:40:16 PM  

ongbok: CujoQuarrel: Just checked the local Comm College and it's rates still seem reasonable (about 2k a semester) and the local University (about 4k a semester). This is for state residents.

So how did you guys get into so much debt?

out of state or private schools. And some people think spending 2 years at a CC makes you a failure.


Not only that, but 4k for a State University is JUST tuition. When I was in college at a SUNY, I was paying only a little less for my room and my meal plan than I was for my actual tuition. Add books and supplies and it was about even.

I went to a CC, got my AAS and followed up for my BS, but my Major wasn't available locally from a State School, so I had to go away. I even did 1 year as a Resident Assistant where they paid for my room and half of the full meal plan, and I STILL racked up 11k in loans over 4 semesters a decade ago. The only reason I got off that cheap was I worked a full time job and a part time job while at CC, so the money I banked carried me through (and my parents covering my car insurance) and I worked a single part time job while away.

I lucked out and had a connection that helped me find employment that started right after graduation, which was great because I was pretty much broke. The kicker is that's a contact I made while at CC. Aside from personal development and life experience the extra 2 years did little extra to help prepare me for my career.

I wish I knew that before hand, I wish someone had told me, but no one did. Everyone drilled into me that I needed at least a BA/BS, so that's what I did. In the long run I made out as well as anyone can expect to, but I know I'm the exception.

I have friends who are making substantially more than I am, but still paying off their loans, because they went away all 4 years to private schools.
 
2012-11-13 06:40:21 PM  
Fell In Love With a Chair

Even with a bachelor's degree, 10+ years of experience in my field (IT/Networking)

If you're willing to say (and I understand if you're not), what is the degree and from what school?
 
2012-11-13 06:40:55 PM  
Prisons are the answer. Debtors prisons. For the opportunists who created the debts based on for-profit "universities" where credits don't transfer and the debts are nondischargable in bankruptcy and everyone's on the take for the commission.

Jail these banksters, school adminstrators, loan aggregators, and everyone else with his hand in the diploma mills to destroy an entire generation. I'm sure the prisons will need real sadistic guards and wardens Each year as guard could discharge a year of "education."

For those "institutions" that were totally electronic, a form of taser-bracelet could work. Each semester hour foisted on a student would be one hour of tasering.
 
2012-11-13 06:41:52 PM  

kxs401: HotIgneous Intruder: kxs401: Only if the loans are federal. She says they're private debt, which is much, much worse. They won't work with you like the DoE servicers will, and the loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.

She said Sallie Mae is holding the loans. Sallie Mae holds my loans and so I know what's possible with Sallie Mae. Am I somehow wrong about that?

Sallie Mae service both federally-owned and privately-owned loans. What kinds of deferments and forebearances and how many you can get are determined by who owns the loan (with some variation among servicers).

I briefly worked for one of the four federal student loan servicers.


That's pretty perverse.
Luckily, all my loans are federal. I had a private one, but I had it consolidated with others into one federal loan. It's pretty ridiculous that there's not one standard across the nation for this kind of thing.
 
2012-11-13 06:45:04 PM  

ongbok: And some people think spending 2 years at a CC makes you a failure.


Damn. I went to a great community college and I was pretty let down when I finally arrived at a four-year state school.

/My CC offered more languages than the state university college, including Russian, Greek, Latin, and Italian.
 
2012-11-13 06:47:57 PM  

Malacon: ongbok: CujoQuarrel: Just checked the local Comm College and it's rates still seem reasonable (about 2k a semester) and the local University (about 4k a semester). This is for state residents.

So how did you guys get into so much debt?

out of state or private schools. And some people think spending 2 years at a CC makes you a failure.

Not only that, but 4k for a State University is JUST tuition. When I was in college at a SUNY, I was paying only a little less for my room and my meal plan than I was for my actual tuition. Add books and supplies and it was about even.

I went to a CC, got my AAS and followed up for my BS, but my Major wasn't available locally from a State School, so I had to go away. I even did 1 year as a Resident Assistant where they paid for my room and half of the full meal plan, and I STILL racked up 11k in loans over 4 semesters a decade ago. The only reason I got off that cheap was I worked a full time job and a part time job while at CC, so the money I banked carried me through (and my parents covering my car insurance) and I worked a single part time job while away.

I lucked out and had a connection that helped me find employment that started right after graduation, which was great because I was pretty much broke. The kicker is that's a contact I made while at CC. Aside from personal development and life experience the extra 2 years did little extra to help prepare me for my career.

I wish I knew that before hand, I wish someone had told me, but no one did. Everyone drilled into me that I needed at least a BA/BS, so that's what I did. In the long run I made out as well as anyone can expect to, but I know I'm the exception.

I have friends who are making substantially more than I am, but still paying off their loans, because they went away all 4 years to private schools.


Very much this.

/Also went to a CC and then on to SUNY.
 
2012-11-13 06:48:19 PM  
I'm getting a big kick out of this thread, as I never had any student loan debt and have a math-centric worthwhile degree from a decent state university.
 
2012-11-13 06:49:30 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.


I just wanted to say that I completely understand what you're going through and know how dark and hopeless it all feels...I'm right there with you.

Solidarity, sistah.
 
2012-11-13 06:50:21 PM  

Gyrfalcon:
Uh, is that you in your profile pic? Cut your hair, take out the facial piercings, and cover the tats when you go on a job interview. I don't care what you're applying for or how much you want to stick it to "the man", when you go for an interview you need to look like White Bread America.

Update your resume. What have you been doing since you got out of school? Got any professional references? Your parents, friends and buds from college won't cut it anymore. You need somebody who works in the field, and ideally someone with more than 10 years on the job. Got letters of reference? If not, get some pronto. Make sure you put in any relevant volunteer work--it's better than having to explain three years of sitting on your ass.

Call Sallie Mae, and don't talk to anyone who isn't an actual American person who works in the US. Tell them what's going on. Have you used up your unemployment deferments? Ask about making interest-only payments if you can't get full deferments. Ask about income-based payments. Tell them you're not working and tell them you'll pay what you can. Don't let them scare you: Remember, you can't go to prison for non-payment and they can't threaten you with anything. Record your conversations. If they start harassing you, tell them to stop. If they don't, send them a "cease and desist" letter. Even Sallie Mae has to obey such a letter, as long as it contains the words "cease and desist". Sometimes just threatening to do so will work--it did for me.

Above all, stay in contact with them. Don't just blow off the letters and phone calls. Get the name of your account handler, and talk to THAT PERSON, no one else. Don't let them put you through to various call centers and offices. Deal with one person, not sixteen. Keep all your paperwork in order, or if you do it all online, print everything and keep it filed.

The worst that can happen is that they take you to court, get a judgment against you and put liens on any future property you own; this will f*ck your credit rating for the rest of your life, but will otherwise not impact your life. It is not illegal to be unable to pay a judgment (although it is illegal to REFUSE to pay one if you are able to do so). And it IS illegal to harass you if you have indicated you cannot pay and have made honest and reasonable efforts to communicate with your creditors. So don't give up.


I think I might just go "clean up" and put what I look like professionally in my profile so this doesn't get mixed up. I DO have a professional look that involves tat coverage, no piercings at all, and my hair is pulled back neatly from my face and styled. I'm not talking jeans either, I have a long dress style shirt, professional looking necklace, dress pants, and shined pumps. I do have a little makeup to cover blemishes too.

My resume is updated as of this month with five professional references, including two from 'current' clients. I'd never put friends or family on it, that would be foolish. I'd link a scrubbed version of my resume here but I think that'd be a bad idea, considering.

I was getting over 10 calls a day from Sallie Mae starting at 5am before my folks paid up. I wonder if that constitutes harassment... but getting a native english speaker on the phone sounds like a good idea. The overseas people uh, have little sympathy and won't deviate from the script. That's good advice- thank you. Especially the part about having ONE account handler. It'd suck to have my credit ruined for the rest of my life on this, but I literally have nothing left to give. I'm pretty sure my unemployment deferments are all used up, but there's nothing stopping me from asking again.

I think the best advice is to not give up. It'd be so easy to just end it. I have health problems, my car's falling apart (I had to turn down a job recently because it was too far and paid too low, it would have cost me money but GOD I tried to make it happen), and the stress is making my hair fall out. Just hearing anyone say "Don't give up" instead of "kill yourself, trash" means so much to me right now.

So, thank you.
 
2012-11-13 06:50:28 PM  

Mr_Juche: So I heard something a little while ago that I thought would be interesting to try. I was listening to Minnesota Public Radio and they were talking to three foreign reporters to get an outsiders perspective of the election. One of them was from Australia. When the topic of university debt came up, he talked about how they handled it. I believe that, if you go to a public university in Australia there is no tuition. However, after you graduate and your income reaches a certain level the cost is added to your income tax bill. I think it was something like an added two or three percent added per year. While I obviously don't have the specifics, it would be interesting to see if that could work here.


That's really not a bad idea, however, what happens if you leave the country?

I'd love to see the PnL numbers from that program to see what percentage is actually recouped vs the total cost.

Let's say i graduate at 24 and start hitting the income threshold @ 28 and i retire @ 62. Just pulling numbers out if my arse here, but let's say that the pay threshold is $100k and let's assume for simplicity sake that it stays the same over my lifetime, though i would disappointed if it did.

34yrs @ $3k a year = $102k paid back in my lifetime that i likely won't miss in that increment. Realistically it would be more with cost of living raises, but then again these numbers are purely rectal.
 
2012-11-13 06:50:59 PM  

brittmule: Fell In Love With a Chair: brittmule:
Sallie Mae is a bunch of dicks, and it sounds like your parents are too.

That being said, if you have 10 years in IT experience, I'd be interested in seeing your resume. My company is hiring a bunch of IT folks in the next year. No guarantees, of course, but I'd like to help if I can.

Holy shiat! That's amazing- anything helps, and in this industry networking is extremely important in times like these. I'll email you ASAP.

Sweet! I'll try to put in some referrals tomorrow. Just make sure your name, address, etc is there.

Annnnnd now I sound like a stalker.


Hey, after this stupid election season, I think one of the best things we can do is start helping each other instead of continuously kicking each other in the nuts, or ovaries, or whatever.
 
2012-11-13 06:51:12 PM  

Robo Beat: olddinosaur: No symping farkathy here.

I graduated into the teeth of Nixon's recession with $100 in my pocket, no debts and a 5--year--old car.

There were no jobs for educated people so I had to work for two years as a laborer before I could stack up enough money to leave that dead--end town.

Suck it up crybabies, you make me flucking sick.

$550 in the pocket (equivalent to $100 in 1972 dollars), no debt, an old car, and steady work as a shiat-shoveler would be a considerable step up for a lot of people coming out of school these days. Some folks I know and care about are in worse situations than Fell In Love with a Chair up above. Comments like yours only show how out-of-touch the boomer generation is with the problems of young people trying to gain more than a tenuous foothold. The system as it is is farked, and attitudes like yours are not helping.


And for the record, I have a ~$1,600 monthly law school loan payment that I pay in full and then some every month - a ten-year note that I should have killed in 6 or so at the rate I'm going. So I'll tell you in advance not to waste your breath on the lectures about responsibility.


^^^ So much THIS
I can't tell you how many older people in my life are amazed by the debt load I carry and in the same breath tell me, "Well I worked a part time job while I was in college to pay off my tuition, books, housing, ect. IN FULL." I can only respond that I DO have a part time job and I work my ass off while going to school full time. I still don't even come close to paying all my expenses without loans. It's damn near impossible if you don't have parents to rely on (I have none).

If I wanted to pay all my bills up front for the year I would have to make $40k/yr and I go to a cheap state school. If anyone knows of a part time job that pays $40k/yr then sign me up (no stripping because of the professional nature of my degree). There are no words to describe how frustratingly stupid it is to talk to someone who thinks that tuition/housing expenses have somehow stayed EXACTLY the same since the 70's and I the only reason I am saddled with so much debt is because I am not working hard enough.
/end rant
 
2012-11-13 06:51:14 PM  

vygramul: I'm going to start a petition to end these stupid-ass petitions.


Best damn idea I've heard all day.
 
2012-11-13 06:51:55 PM  
I'd be willing to work at Mickey D's, but I suck at being part of a team and if I get fired too soon, unemployment is out the window. Also, minimum wage is just not liveable. I understand I'll be in debt, but regardless, I'm pushing on towards a doctorate and a professorship. Hopefully, then, with those kind of credentials, I can get decent pay and multiple universities to choose from. I can only hope, I ain't living in the Stygian wasteland of poverty forever.
 
2012-11-13 06:52:35 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: You betcha, even if you send those farkers your last $80.

Then they call your folks, they pay $800, call you up screaming and tell you they're going to take you away from your partner, your house, your family, friends and support network, and make you live in their house in the middle of the woods on the complete opposite coast with no car, no possessions, and lots and lots of Jesus to pray the gay away while you get a job "somewhere in town" ten miles away.

Difficulty: no car, no sidewalks, and they're under a foot of snow already. I have decent outdoor survival skills but my mom works for the PD so if I did end up having to make an escape attempt, I wouldn't make it to the main road before I got caught. I have pals in NYC who're ready to come get me back if my partner tells them I went missing out here in CA.


I'm asking this seriously: how would your parents do that? Your parents cosigned the loans, which means they voluntarily agreed to make the payments if you couldn't. You can't, so it's their responsibility. If I were you, I might consider not taking my parents' phone calls anymore.

HotIgneous Intruder: That's pretty perverse.
Luckily, all my loans are federal. I had a private one, but I had it consolidated with others into one federal loan. It's pretty ridiculous that there's not one standard across the nation for this kind of thing.


Private student loans are f*cking evil.
 
2012-11-13 06:52:42 PM  
I thought people stopped putting notes in suggestion boxes a long time ago
 
2012-11-13 06:53:30 PM  

WhoGAS: I can't say that working a minimum wage job will start you on the path to "success" but I can definitely say that sticking to your values, looking out for others and thinking about the big picture outside your own selfish world will get you further than you believe. But it has to be genuine...you have to change yourself for real, not just go through the motions.

My only advice as an "older american" is that hard work and focusing on the positive will get you further in life than where you are now. No big promises of riches, but it won't hurt to get rid of the excuses with which you hold yourself back.


"Politicians and businessmen spend the last thirty years systematically destroying the social safety nets that led to the largest middle class boom in the history of the world" equals "I'm selfish and making excuses because I'm reluctant to work an ass-backwards minimum-wage job with no chance for advancement" as told by a generation that got the benefit of that middle class boom and have apparently decided they don't want anyone else to.

Got it.
 
2012-11-13 06:53:46 PM  

topcon: I'm getting a big kick out of this thread, as I never had any student loan debt and have a math-centric worthwhile degree from a decent state university.


Good for you (no sarcasm, that really is awesome), but hopefully you realize that anymore your situation is the exception and not the rule.
 
2012-11-13 06:55:41 PM  

Skywolf Philosopher: and if I get fired too soon, unemployment is out the window.


That sounded awful. I'm looking for work right now, and I'm struggling to hope I can find any. I got no skills, no frills, I'm just an average Joe, I got no money, it ain't funny, but the world is so.
 
2012-11-13 06:55:45 PM  

Skywolf Philosopher: I'd be willing to work at Mickey D's, but I suck at being part of a team and if I get fired too soon, unemployment is out the window. Also, minimum wage is just not liveable. I understand I'll be in debt, but regardless, I'm pushing on towards a doctorate and a professorship. Hopefully, then, with those kind of credentials, I can get decent pay and multiple universities to choose from. I can only hope, I ain't living in the Stygian wasteland of poverty forever.


Academia isn't the end all be all these days. It is TOUGH to get into a University, and once there you need to work your ass off and be exceptionally good to get tenure. Of course, colleges aren't above stringing you along as an associate prof for very little money. At least in Biomedical Engineering, there aren't enough prof. jobs to go about, and once tenured, you can stay until you die, so there isn't going to be turnover anytime soon. Good luck, though, seems like a wonderful career if you can achieve it and a great way to give back to society.
 
2012-11-13 06:56:24 PM  

nekom: Yes, there is the personal responsibility angle, but how many 18 year old kids are really capable of making a decision that can literally haunt them for the rest of their lives?


You mean like, say, voting?
 
2012-11-13 06:56:56 PM  
These people realize that they can go to small, in-state schools that still give a decent education and aren't that expensive, right? I just looked up my old alma mater. Full time state resident tuition is 4299.75 a semester. Less than 9 grand a year. My GI Bill would have covered the whole thing with cash to spare (this was the old Montgomery, not the new, way more awesome Post 9/11 Bill) even if I hadn't gotten a scholarship. And all professors are required to teach their classes (no TAs), and grade their own tests. With the exception of a couple of lecture courses, no classes were over 25 students.

Oh, and if you want a cheap way to get out of about a year of actual school, take CLEP tests. I transferred over 30 credit hours worth of those tests. Mine were free (Thanks base education center and you, the grateful taxpayer), but I think they cost a whopping 100 bucks to take, and if you have any basic knowledge, will pretty much let you skip all those useless 100 level classes you're supposed to take as a freshman. That, along with the classes I took while I was in, let me graduate in 2 years. Utterly useless degree, I've never used it, but hey, going to school without loans is easy if you put some work and time into it.
 
2012-11-13 06:58:36 PM  
How about if we just stop offering student loans?

/ no, really.
 
2012-11-13 06:59:16 PM  
Brontes:

Thank you very much, Brontes! That's the first nice thing I've had said to me on Fark for months! :D

//I'm going for degrees in Literature, Biblical Studies, and I'm thinking perhaps a niche field if that would help? Or is that just more debt?

///Dreams of living within driving range of the Library of Congress and Smithsonian.
 
2012-11-13 06:59:53 PM  
Can we have a "looking for work" thread? I'll take pretty much any job that doesn't require me to cut my beard (religious reasons) and is located in Los Alamos. I'll even wear a beard-net if it's food services.

It'd be neat to be able to buy my wife a birthday or Christmas present again. Haven't been able to do that for a few years now.
 
2012-11-13 06:59:56 PM  

olddinosaur: Russky: olddinosaur: No symping farkathy here.

I graduated into the teeth of Nixon's recession with $100 in my pocket, no debts and a 5--year--old car.

There were no jobs for educated people so I had to work for two years as a laborer before I could stack up enough money to leave that dead--end town.

Suck it up crybabies, you make me flucking sick.

Do you honestly think that the debt incurred back then and the price of tuition is even close to the same? Before you answer, tuition has increased at twice the rate of normal inflation since 1970,

Since 1970 tuition and fees at UT have risen for undergraduates, the increase has been around 400 percent. In 1970, tuition was $50 for any in-state student enrolled in any college or school for any number of credit hours. Fees were $54 for anyone enrolled at the University. In the Fall semester of 2002, you won't get a twelve hour course load for less than $2,300.

When I graduated from the UT system (Midwestern State) in 1972, payout was about $125/semester and jobs paying $120--$1.50 an hour were available if you didn't mind eating sh*t with a smile on your face.

When I got fired from Halliburton in 1974, I was heavily in debt and went on a refinery turnaround for $9.50 an hour, 12 hrs a day 7 days a week. That lasted 3 weeks and paid slightly under $3000 in 1974 money. It wiped out all my debts with a little left over.

You're right it is somewhat harder for young people today, but the money is out there if you look.


With tuition for public schools over 50x what you paid in 1972 - it's a little harder for students to do these days.

My only gripe is I can't refinance my federal loans for anything close to what you can get in the private loan business. It sucks paying 6.5% interest when private student loans are like 2~3%....
 
2012-11-13 07:01:08 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: I think the best advice is to not give up. It'd be so easy to just end it. I have health problems, my car's falling apart (I had to turn down a job recently because it was too far and paid too low, it would have cost me money but GOD I tried to make it happen), and the stress is making my hair fall out. Just hearing anyone say "Don't give up" instead of "kill yourself, trash" means so much to me right now.

So, thank you.


At the end of the day, money isn't why we're all here. Just remember that. Ask yourself how much money you would accept to kill yourself. (Correct answer? ZERO dollars)
You may just need to configure your life a bit differently so that collection isn't so easy, but first get them to play fair. Tell them you can't pay and ask for options and don't stop until you get some.
Last resort, just toss your phone number and get a prepaid tracphone or whatever so they can't spam your phone to death (been there, done that, up to 22 messages per day, finally gave up the number.)
They will torment your cosigners, though, so that's not so good.

Try temp agencies and clean up your act if you want to get through this rough patch in your life less scathed. It will pass.
Keep moving and keep trying and never stop, never quit, never give up.
Be like the honey badger.
Really, truly.
 
2012-11-13 07:01:09 PM  

Skywolf Philosopher: I'd be willing to work at Mickey D's, but I suck at being part of a team and if I get fired too soon, unemployment is out the window. Also, minimum wage is just not liveable. I understand I'll be in debt, but regardless, I'm pushing on towards a doctorate and a professorship. Hopefully, then, with those kind of credentials, I can get decent pay and multiple universities to choose from. I can only hope, I ain't living in the Stygian wasteland of poverty forever.


You'll need to work on the whole team thing, even in academia. As for poverty and becoming a professor, I sincerely hope that you aren't actually aiming to get your degree in philosophy. I'll tell you the same thing my g/f, a philosophy professor, tells her starry-eyed students: DO NOT DO THIS.

Even the community colleges are flooded with doctorates wanting jobs, and how many people who start it actually finish? The most likely outcome is many years of adjuncting at a school in an awful place where you'll be expected to work like a Roman orchard slave while receiving full-time pay with health insurance only if you're very lucky.

kxs401: I'm asking this seriously: how would your parents do that? Your parents cosigned the loans, which means they voluntarily agreed to make the payments if you couldn't. You can't, so it's their responsibility. If I were you, I might consider not taking my parents' phone calls anymore.


I agree with this. From what I just read there, those are family this guy doesn't need.
 
2012-11-13 07:01:24 PM  

signaljammer: Sovs had free tuition, and their unis were on a much higher standard than USAs.


But they only let smart people in. That would never fly in America.
 
2012-11-13 07:01:55 PM  

radarlove: Can we have a "looking for work" thread? I'll take pretty much any job that doesn't require me to cut my beard (religious reasons) and is located in Los Alamos. I'll even wear a beard-net if it's food services.

It'd be neat to be able to buy my wife a birthday or Christmas present again. Haven't been able to do that for a few years now.


http://www.reddit.com/r/forhire/
 
2012-11-13 07:01:57 PM  

Forty-Three: CujoQuarrel: Just checked the local Comm College and it's rates still seem reasonable (about 2k a semester) and the local University (about 4k a semester). This is for state residents.

So how did you guys get into so much debt?

4k tuition a semester for a 4 year degree means 32k on tuition alone. Adding books, fees, room and board about doubles that. Typical payment on a 60k plus loan is something in the neighborhodd of $600/month.


It would be a bit better if you frontloaded the first 2 years at community college so it.s
2+2+2+2 then 4+4+4+4 for 24k. You can cut down the number of years by taking extra courses so maybe save 4kish to get it to 20k. Books prices suck I agree, check into renting from Amazon or getting several friends to take the same course and share a book (used to do that way back when). If possible live at home (I actually lived in my car for six months). Eat ramen. Don't party. Don't smoke. Don't drink.

You need to find a job while going to school and something to work at during the summers. Fast food delivery is the best if you can swing it during school. Mowing in the summers.
 
2012-11-13 07:02:10 PM  

kxs401: Fell In Love With a Chair: You betcha, even if you send those farkers your last $80.

Then they call your folks, they pay $800, call you up screaming and tell you they're going to take you away from your partner, your house, your family, friends and support network, and make you live in their house in the middle of the woods on the complete opposite coast with no car, no possessions, and lots and lots of Jesus to pray the gay away while you get a job "somewhere in town" ten miles away.

Difficulty: no car, no sidewalks, and they're under a foot of snow already. I have decent outdoor survival skills but my mom works for the PD so if I did end up having to make an escape attempt, I wouldn't make it to the main road before I got caught. I have pals in NYC who're ready to come get me back if my partner tells them I went missing out here in CA.

I'm asking this seriously: how would your parents do that? Your parents cosigned the loans, which means they voluntarily agreed to make the payments if you couldn't. You can't, so it's their responsibility. If I were you, I might consider not taking my parents' phone calls anymore.

Private student loans are f*cking evil.


I've had them on my block list since then. They gave me a week to come up with $800 bucks and I managed $100 that I'm probably going to have to put toward sudden medical expense. However, that won't stop my dad from literally flying out here and pounding on my door until I call the cops. Or my mom mailing me a $500 plane ticket I'll have to refuse. They've threatened me with taking me out to their shack property in vermont (atv storage) and making me do nothing but chop wood and dig rocks for an entire year.

They have really humble origins, my dad was a dirt poor welder working on nuclear subs and my mom was a homebody who couldn't even drive. They didn't have money for food a lot of the time (it was the mid 70s) and their apartment didn't have heat, but they loved eachother and that was good enough. My dad slowly moved up from welding to punch and then to rotolase and then to rotolase instruction with a prominent company and has been there 35 years. My mom got a job working in town hall with the mayor and police department in town, and together they pull down a good chunk of change. My 25 year old sister moved out of their (paid off) house last month for the first time, but apparently I'M the shiathead moocher after having left at 17 and never gone back.

Now they have all the money they will ever need, and they don't give a shiat about anyone else. Dad says uninsured people should just die, while I look around my apartment for something I can get $150 for so I can buy medicine.

/TMI + venting
//But it's better than freaking out
 
2012-11-13 07:03:38 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Then they call your folks, they pay $800, call you up screaming and tell you they're going to take you away from your partner, your house, your family, friends and support network, and make you live in their house in the middle of the woods on the complete opposite coast with no car, no possessions, and lots and lots of Jesus to pray the gay away while you get a job "somewhere in town" ten miles away.


You know what's gay? Your excuses

/Sorry. I sympathize. Just couldn't resist lol
 
2012-11-13 07:03:51 PM  

Mike_LowELL: WhoGAS: I can't say that working a minimum wage job will start you on the path to "success" but I can definitely say that sticking to your values, looking out for others and thinking about the big picture outside your own selfish world will get you further than you believe. But it has to be genuine...you have to change yourself for real, not just go through the motions.

My only advice as an "older american" is that hard work and focusing on the positive will get you further in life than where you are now. No big promises of riches, but it won't hurt to get rid of the excuses with which you hold yourself back.

"Politicians and businessmen spend the last thirty years systematically destroying the social safety nets that led to the largest middle class boom in the history of the world" equals "I'm selfish and making excuses because I'm reluctant to work an ass-backwards minimum-wage job with no chance for advancement" as told by a generation that got the benefit of that middle class boom and have apparently decided they don't want anyone else to.

Got it.


I don't understand what you're trying to convey.

I don't agree with your viewpoint of yourself saying that "you're selfish and you're making excuses" because that's just a bad attitude to have in life.

And why wouldn't you want others to enjoy the benefit of what you got? That's silly. Why wouldn't you want people to succeed as you did?
 
2012-11-13 07:04:06 PM  

radarlove: Can we have a "looking for work" thread? I'll take pretty much any job that doesn't require me to cut my beard (religious reasons) and is located in Los Alamos. I'll even wear a beard-net if it's food services.

It'd be neat to be able to buy my wife a birthday or Christmas present again. Haven't been able to do that for a few years now.


Los Alamos? Another small-town trap.
The small cities are really small towns with limited options.
 
2012-11-13 07:04:53 PM  

netweavr: radarlove: Can we have a "looking for work" thread? I'll take pretty much any job that doesn't require me to cut my beard (religious reasons) and is located in Los Alamos. I'll even wear a beard-net if it's food services.

It'd be neat to be able to buy my wife a birthday or Christmas present again. Haven't been able to do that for a few years now.

http://www.reddit.com/r/forhire/


Nothing in my town...thanks for the link, though. =)
 
2012-11-13 07:05:22 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: I've had them on my block list since then. They gave me a week to come up with $800 bucks and I managed $100 that I'm probably going to have to put toward sudden medical expense. However, that won't stop my dad from literally flying out here and pounding on my door until I call the cops. Or my mom mailing me a $500 plane ticket I'll have to refuse. They've threatened me with taking me out to their shack property in vermont (atv storage) and making me do nothing but chop wood and dig rocks for an entire year.


Get a restraining order, if necessary. Just cut them out of your life. Pay the student loans when you're able, but they voluntarily agreed to cosign. Legally, there's nothing they can do to you.

It'll be okay, I promise.
 
2012-11-13 07:06:22 PM  

Skywolf Philosopher: Brontes:

Thank you very much, Brontes! That's the first nice thing I've had said to me on Fark for months! :D

//I'm going for degrees in Literature, Biblical Studies, and I'm thinking perhaps a niche field if that would help? Or is that just more debt?

///Dreams of living within driving range of the Library of Congress and Smithsonian.


If that is what you want to do, don't let me discourage you. Your field could be vastly different from Biomedical Engineering, but certainly investigate before taking the plunge. How often do the positions you like open up? Where in the country are they? What do you have to do to get them? Can you get grant funding? How many grants a year do you need to write? How much research needs to be done?

Getting a PhD may hurt more than help if you like doing hands on research. That was the conclusion I came to: I love developing circuits and software and a PhD would be about the worst thing to get if my goal is the development side of R&D.
 
2012-11-13 07:07:29 PM  

WhoGAS: I don't understand what you're trying to convey.

I don't agree with your viewpoint of yourself saying that "you're selfish and you're making excuses" because that's just a bad attitude to have in life.


As far as I got out of your post, that's what you were implying about me.

WhoGAS: And why wouldn't you want others to enjoy the benefit of what you got? That's silly. Why wouldn't you want people to succeed as you did?


Honestly, I don't think we're on the same page here. I'm not following you.
 
2012-11-13 07:08:27 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Noticeably F.A.T.: Fell In Love With a Chair: Get over yourself, kid. You're not too good to make fries.

I can't remember where I read it, but I do remember reading an article that made a whole lot of sense that said that it's really no wonder that there is an entire generation that thinks that it is above flipping burgers because for their entire lives that they are above flipping burgers. "You'd better go to school, you'd better get a degree, you don't want to spend your life flipping burgers, do you?" Now, it's not true and they are going to get a quick reality check, but can you really put to much blame on them for thinking like that when that's the only way they have been taught to think?

I'd flip burgers. I'd flip burgers right now. I'd do it for twelve straight hours. For the love of god, if you know someone who needs burgers flipped, I'll do it. Partly why I can't get hired is because I have literally no burger flipping experience. At 16 I was the IT person/webmaster for a medium sized local business (Mustang Motorcycle Seats, actually). I'd flip every farking burger I swear to god I'm so desperate. I can't even sell my farking jalopy car for enough money to pay this shiat off. I need it though to live in, in case my ex decides she doesn't want me around any longer.


This guy gets it.

I'm down to minimum wage, and still have trouble finding work. There's no way to lower my standards further. And when you can get work, they know you're desperate. Last job I had at $7.50/hr had me getting up at 3:30 in the morning and basically being completely responsible for $200,000+ in merchandise for 8-14 hours that day. Complain and you can GTFO. Minor farkup, you can GTFO. Looking at doing federal time if anything goes missing. Required CLEAN criminal history and MVR, drug screen, all that jazz.

For a minimum wage job. IF you can get it.

This guy gets it. I know my wife doesn't need me. I haven't had a "real" job in over five years now. She's been paying the bills, basically by herself. You have to be here to understand our kind of desperation. But I put on the optimistic face, keep sending resumes and filling out shiatty online apps. Swearing profusely every time that phone call turned out to be a telemarketer or bill collector or student loan collector instead of someone with some paying work. shiat sucks, and times are desperate as hell, but I still try.

If I wasn't a damned good father and one hell of a cook, I'd likely have been out on my ass years ago. 

/two cents
//still happy with what I got
 
2012-11-13 07:09:22 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Now they have all the money they will ever need,


I highly doubt that... unless they are in the 1%, which seems unlikely given your story of them.
And if your loans are as much as you are claiming, them paying them off might just wipe out their retirement.

I'm not joking about the killbots BTW.
Both red team and blue team absolutely love killbots.
and while they may cut money for next gen super planes and disabled vets, they won't cut the killbots.
if you have a clean record and a tech or engineering degree and you aren't working... killbots.
 
2012-11-13 07:10:18 PM  

Mike_LowELL: WhoGAS: I don't understand what you're trying to convey.

I don't agree with your viewpoint of yourself saying that "you're selfish and you're making excuses" because that's just a bad attitude to have in life.

As far as I got out of your post, that's what you were implying about me.

WhoGAS: And why wouldn't you want others to enjoy the benefit of what you got? That's silly. Why wouldn't you want people to succeed as you did?

Honestly, I don't think we're on the same page here. I'm not following you.


Oh, well, I'm sorry you misread my post, then; it happens.

And you said " "I'm selfish and making excuses because I'm reluctant to work an ass-backwards minimum-wage job with no chance for advancement" as told by a generation that got the benefit of that middle class boom and have apparently decided they don't want anyone else to. "

So I was responding to your personal beliefs about those who didn't make it as you did, apparently. I'd rather everyone succeed according to their own definitions.
 
2012-11-13 07:10:30 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: /TMI + venting
//But it's better than freaking out


Your parents signed the papers, so they know the deal.
If they're making threats making you feel unsafe, file a police report. (Really.)
If they can't be civil with you, cut them off because you've got enough crap to deal with without them wrecking you psychologically.

Remember: Honey Badger just doesn't care.
Be. That. Honey. Badger.
 
2012-11-13 07:11:19 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.

Seems like plenty of people in this thread are ready to pass a snap judgement that anyone crushed by a $44k debt clean out of college is just a lazy asshole. You sound like my parents, completely out of touch with reality. Just go down to the Wal-mart and get a job with those groceries. Saying you're "over-qualified" is narcissistic bullshiat, they TOOOTALLY hire people with four year degrees to stock shelves. Get over yourself, kid. You're not too good to make fries.

Even with a bachelor's degree, 10+ years of experience in my field (IT/Networking), clean drug/background/dmv screens, a willingness to work for just barely above minimum wage, and I'm STILL having a hard time finding work. Meanwhile Sallie Mae wants $500 a month. My income is next to nothing, I do art commissions for $10-20 bucks a pop. I'll do literally anything legal for money, $500/mo is more than my rent by a fair share. I live with my ex-girlfriend. She pays my rent still. I don't know why.

I've never been on welfare, foodstamps, and apart from two months on unemployment years ago, I've paid tens of thousands of dollars into the system and asked for less than a grand in return over the 12 years I've been employed.

fark you people.

I'm 28 years old and at this rate I will never own a house or a new car. I cannot get out from under this debt. I signed my tuition papers at 17, not understanding what would happen, or how this impacted my future. I was a child and we were told IF YOU DO NOT GO TO COLLEGE, YOU WON'T GET WORK. Now graduates are told "Without experience, you will not get hired". How do you get experience in your field without having a job in the first place? I am one of the lucky ones, I have the experience, but get passed over for being a young woman, and only having my A+ certification, because I can't aff ...


So your college didn't show you how to network? Didn't show you how to interview? Didn't show you how to make yourself marketable?

What did they teach you? I see from your profile you are in Suckramento. Have you looked at other cities? Have you looked at joining the National Guard who would pay off or pay a large portion of the loans as well as training you how to deal with the real world?

Hard lesson you are going to learn is NO ONE makes money in IT unless they are Management or CIO.
 
2012-11-13 07:11:22 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: radarlove: Can we have a "looking for work" thread? I'll take pretty much any job that doesn't require me to cut my beard (religious reasons) and is located in Los Alamos. I'll even wear a beard-net if it's food services.

It'd be neat to be able to buy my wife a birthday or Christmas present again. Haven't been able to do that for a few years now.

Los Alamos? Another small-town trap.
The small cities are really small towns with limited options.


Yup. Wife and I were living in Fort Collins, CO until I lost my job and couldn't find another and we ended up going homeless.(DAMN Ft.C is an expensive town to live in). Fortunately, our family here in Los Alamos took us in. UNfortunately, there's nary a job to be had in town, unless you qualify to work at the lab.
 
2012-11-13 07:12:33 PM  
I come from a proud abuse family. Urban derelict am I. I read everything I can get my hands on so I can crowd out the memories, so I have a superficial understanding of many things. Fifty-three years old, had a semester of college. Worked formally for almost six months in 1979. My sideline is to informally tutor undergraduate STEM. I get my pin money this way. My clients are mainly rich and uber-rich pot-heads who don't want school to interfere with their lives.

These guys are really aloof. Life is joke laden with punch-lines to them. I know that the idea of socializing education sets off some as unfair somehow, but the way things are now outrages my sense of fairness a wee bit as well. I'd rather tute the gifted than the rich, not that they would need my help as much.

//#1 Son masters in statistical biology
//#2 Son dual baccy CS, math

//me, owe $100K -uCSB
 
2012-11-13 07:13:57 PM  

kxs401: Get a restraining order, if necessary. Just cut them out of your life. Pay the student loans when you're able, but they voluntarily agreed to cosign. Legally, there's nothing they can do to you.

It'll be okay, I promise.


This times ten.
They signed the papers.
 
2012-11-13 07:16:30 PM  

Brontes


I love developing circuits and software

Yeah, isn't that almost too much fun! My living room is just covered in wire-wrap guns and 'scopes and counters and development kits. I don't even sleep when I am on a roll!
 
2012-11-13 07:17:27 PM  
Some degree of student loan assistance would be nice.

I'm (hopefully) about 2 years away from a PhD in physics. Nevertheless, I'm ~$30,000 in debt from student loans+interest when I was in undergrad.

Even though my field is growing and booming (nanophysics), I'm still friggen terrified. =/
 
2012-11-13 07:20:03 PM  
Know what else sucks? (This is gonna set off a firestorm among the job-seekers)

UNICREW tests.

fark UNICREW. I've tried everything with those assholes: Honesty, telling them what i think they want to hear, answering randomly...and I NEVER pass a UNICREW (or similar) test. If I see that a job I'm applying for uses a UNICREW test, I pretty much give up at this point. Ain't gonna get it.
 
2012-11-13 07:21:32 PM  

radarlove: UNICREW tests.


wtf?
 
2012-11-13 07:25:36 PM  
radarlove:

I agree.
 
2012-11-13 07:25:38 PM  

kxs401: Get a restraining order, if necessary. Just cut them out of your life. Pay the student loans when you're able, but they voluntarily agreed to cosign. Legally, there's nothing they can do to you.
It'll be okay, I promise.


Ohhh I really hope it doesn't come down to that. "You never call the cops on family" is definitely something that's been drilled into my head since I was little. I'd do it, but god I hope they're bluffing and really don't have more money than brains.

HotIgneous Intruder:
At the end of the day, money isn't why we're all here. Just remember that. Ask yourself how much money you would accept to kill yourself. (Correct answer? ZERO dollars)
You may just need to configure your life a bit differently so that collection isn't so easy, but first get them to play fair. Tell them you can't pay and ask for options and don't stop until you get some.
Last resort, just toss your phone number and get a prepaid tracphone or whatever so they can't spam your phone to death (been there, done that, up to 22 messages per day, finally gave up the number.)
They will torment your cosigners, though, so that's not so good.
Try temp agencies and clean up your act if you want to get through this rough patch in your life less scathed. It will pass.
Keep moving and keep trying and never stop, never quit, never give up.
Be like the honey badger.
Really, truly.


I'm working with some recruiters right now, so hopefully I'll be on my feet and running shortly. I've gotten flak over tempwork on my resume, but some of the positions (Data center management) look too good to leave off.
I will be the badger and remind myself that you're right- Sallie Mae isn't worth dying for, no matter how bleak it gets. Thank you.

Sticky Hands: Fell In Love With a Chair: Now they have all the money they will ever need,

I highly doubt that... unless they are in the 1%, which seems unlikely given your story of them.
And if your loans are as much as you are claiming, them paying them off might just wipe out their retirement.
I'm not joking about the killbots BTW.


Ehn, yes and no. Dad was talking last month about how this one retirement fund of his was DOWN to JUST half a million because he didn't do some stocks thing or whatever a day late. e__e He says this while at Foxwoods staying in a suite after a big steakhouse dinner like some sort of cartoon villain. (I will definitely look into the killbots, thank you for the tip!)
 
2012-11-13 07:26:20 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: radarlove: UNICREW tests.

wtf?


It's a sort of multiple choice personality test that they make you take for a lot of entry-level menial positions. It's basically supposed to weed out slackers and people who think that collective bargaining is a good idea. Occasionally you get one with some high-level math problem on it as well.

I've read a million different threads and articles on how to beat the damn thing, but so far nothing has really worked. I think they can tell when you're cheating.
 
2012-11-13 07:26:22 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: kxs401: Get a restraining order, if necessary. Just cut them out of your life. Pay the student loans when you're able, but they voluntarily agreed to cosign. Legally, there's nothing they can do to you.

It'll be okay, I promise.

This times ten.
They signed the papers.


Yeah, fark them for trusting him. That's their own fault.

Fell In Love With a Chair, just forget about the debt altogether. Change your number. Move. Sallie Mae will go after your folks. Sure, your credit will be in the crapper for a long, long time, but that's gotta be someone else's fault, too. And fark them for not letting you read what you were signing, or giving you time to do a little math before forcing a pen in your hand. Where did they get off, taking advantage of somebody who couldn't think for himself? I'm with you buddy. I hope this all just goes away.
 
2012-11-13 07:28:52 PM  
It would help both the government and the students if a few things would change.

1. Realize that not everyone is college material. This might even help drive down tuition costs once more people realized they didn't really have to take that 100k student debt just to get any old entry level job.

2. Have counselors actually help people find a suitable career, and help them get a foot in the door instead of just pushing for whichever program turns the highest profit at the time.

3. Get rid of the mindset that any degree from any school is a guaranteed ticket to success.

I'm very much a blue collar type guy. I knew early on that I would not end up with a desk job. Unfortunately for me, that was the only thing ever discussed by guidance counselors in high school. I kicked around for about 10 years doing whatever jobs I could find to pay the bills. When the economy cratered, those jobs dried up, and I had to change or lose what I had managed to gain. I looked in to a few different options, and finally decided on a 2 year degree (Diesel Tech) from a local tech school. I looked at the job market for people with this degree (plenty of openings all over the country), the job security (not exactly a field that can be automated or outsourced), the average pay (not great, but a hell of a lot better than I'd ever made before), and the reputation of the school (surprisingly, one of the highest ranked in the country for their Diesel Tech program). In short, it was the perfect career choice. I had a job lined up before I finished the program, but I completed it anyway. I'm perfectly happy with what I do, and the best part is that my student loans only amounted to $13k. I got a stable, enjoyable, and profitable career for the cost of a halfway decent used car.
 
2012-11-13 07:31:05 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: radarlove: UNICREW tests.

wtf?


That's UNICRU... the 'strongly agree", "agree", "no opinion", "disagree" or "strongly disagree" test. With questions like "do you believe that some employees use drugs at work?" or "do you believe that some employees would steal?" I've worked with people that have been fired for both those very things, yet they don't want you to agree that some people will do this. They want you to tell them something they know to be untrue, and you know to be untrue, but if you tell them that it shows you're company material for telling them what they want to hear even when you know it isn't true. "Oh no sir, nobody would EVER do that!"

They don't word those questions "Do you think it is appropriate?" or "Do you think it is right?".... no, it's "Do you believe?" It's utter bullshiat, start to finish.
 
2012-11-13 07:31:54 PM  

An-Unnecessarily-Long-Name: So your college didn't show you how to network? Didn't show you how to interview? Didn't show you how to make yourself marketable?

What did they teach you? I see from your profile you are in Suckramento. Have you looked at other cities? Have you looked at joining the National Guard who would pay off or pay a large portion of the loans as well as training you how to deal with the real world?

Hard lesson you are going to learn is NO ONE makes money in IT unless they are Management or CIO.


If it comes down to it, joining the military is my last resort. I'll do it, if they'll have me (I have heart problems).

I DO put on a good interview, it's just super competitive out here and everything seems to be 3-6months contract when you can get it. I have/had a network.... back out east where I used to live. I'm sort of newish in Sac, and don't have a lot of professional contacts built up. I was in SoCal for a year but got laid off as the company started going under. I can't really relocate, as I have literally $76 and uh... well yeah. Security deposit + first and last month's rent makes moving without a couple grand under your belt just about impossible, it seems. Car insurance is $34 this month... which is devastating. Not sure what I'm gonna do except hope to god I hear back from some of the places I've interviewed with.
 
2012-11-13 07:32:40 PM  
Ah yes, and this thread, strangely, is therapeutic for me. I normally hang out here for cheap laughs and pub humor, but damn it feels good to know that other folks are 'up in the same snatch' as I am. Car breaking down, struggling to get by, jobs don't want me around, I just get depressed and sigh, 'Why?' I feel like I'm alone sometimes.

/To all the other Farkers simply stuck in a quicksand pit of debt or poverty, y'all have my heartfelt condolences. It's maddening and dispiriting not being able to get by, and I really couldn't imagine how I'd do it if I didn't have the hope my God offers me.
 
2012-11-13 07:34:44 PM  
I'm curious as to how many Obama voters signed this petition.

where's that HA-HA guy?
 
2012-11-13 07:35:59 PM  

Mr_Juche: So I heard something a little while ago that I thought would be interesting to try. I was listening to Minnesota Public Radio and they were talking to three foreign reporters to get an outsiders perspective of the election. One of them was from Australia. When the topic of university debt came up, he talked about how they handled it. I believe that, if you go to a public university in Australia there is no tuition. However, after you graduate and your income reaches a certain level the cost is added to your income tax bill. I think it was something like an added two or three percent added per year. While I obviously don't have the specifics, it would be interesting to see if that could work here.


You would probably get some screaming about "I'm a job creator", "I made this, after all I am the one who studied", "Taxbama" and stuff like that. Wish I was joking, as that really sounds like a quite reasonable trade-off, but that doesn't seem to fly in these parts.
 
2012-11-13 07:37:41 PM  

Rye_: Fell In Love With a Chair, just forget about the debt altogether. Change your number. Move. Sallie Mae will go after your folks. Sure, your credit will be in the crapper for a long, long time, but that's gotta be someone else's fault, too. And fark them for not letting you read what you were signing, or giving you time to do a little math before forcing a pen in your hand. Where did they get off, taking advantage of somebody who couldn't think for himself? I'm with you buddy. I hope this all just goes away.


She's being made into a criminal by a system that doesn't account for systemic variations or the vagaries of micro economies.
So she'll have to account for the variations herself.
Might as well act like a criminal in a criminal system, right?
Be a criminal to beat the criminal system.

/Cause it feels good to be a bankster, fark yeah.
//Think I'm being sarcastic? I'm not.
///Because if you're an emotional/psychological wreck, you can't focus on helping yourself or anyone else.

Fark the money lenders. Hard.
 
2012-11-13 07:37:44 PM  
While I feel bad for people who got into debt pre-bubble, how the hell are there still people out there who think six figures of law school debt is a good idea at this juncture? How completely oblivious do you have to be to the state of the world to go into an entire house worth of debt for a degree at this juncture?
 
2012-11-13 07:38:44 PM  

Rye_: HotIgneous Intruder: kxs401: Get a restraining order, if necessary. Just cut them out of your life. Pay the student loans when you're able, but they voluntarily agreed to cosign. Legally, there's nothing they can do to you.

It'll be okay, I promise.

This times ten.
They signed the papers.

Yeah, fark them for trusting him. That's their own fault.

Fell In Love With a Chair, just forget about the debt altogether. Change your number. Move. Sallie Mae will go after your folks. Sure, your credit will be in the crapper for a long, long time, but that's gotta be someone else's fault, too. And fark them for not letting you read what you were signing, or giving you time to do a little math before forcing a pen in your hand. Where did they get off, taking advantage of somebody who couldn't think for himself? I'm with you buddy. I hope this all just goes away.


Your sarcasm is unwarranted. I'm guessing you don't remember what it was like being 17 or maybe you don't have a tiger mom, but going to college and where I went to college wasn't an option. They didn't have me read what I was signing, the sat me down at the kitchen table, gave me a pen, and told me I was going.

When you're 17, that is your whole world. You don't get a choice about what your parents tell you to do, unless you have somewhere else you can go. If I hadn't gone, I probably would have just killed myself instead. I spent every from my 15th birthday counting down til my high school graduation- that was the date I'd be able to leave and never come back. The fact that they presented me with an option that wasn't "cardboard box", you farking bet I signed. I signed every last paper and I'd probably do it again too.

Instead of busting ass and getting that 4.0 while having a part time job, I'd get a 2.0, as close to full time work as I could get, and then I'd quit college and not give my parents my address instead of being their debt slave for the rest of my life.
 
2012-11-13 07:39:07 PM  

radarlove: HotIgneous Intruder: radarlove: Can we have a "looking for work" thread? I'll take pretty much any job that doesn't require me to cut my beard (religious reasons) and is located in Los Alamos. I'll even wear a beard-net if it's food services.

It'd be neat to be able to buy my wife a birthday or Christmas present again. Haven't been able to do that for a few years now.

Los Alamos? Another small-town trap.
The small cities are really small towns with limited options.

Yup. Wife and I were living in Fort Collins, CO until I lost my job and couldn't find another and we ended up going homeless.(DAMN Ft.C is an expensive town to live in). Fortunately, our family here in Los Alamos took us in. UNfortunately, there's nary a job to be had in town, unless you qualify to work at the lab.


Why don't you apply for jobs in Santa Fe or Albuquerque? There are plenty of people who live on the hill and commute to Santa Fe. And Albuquerque is less than a couple of hours away, if I remember right. People in NoVa or Chicagoland do that sort of thing ever day, timewise at least.
 
2012-11-13 07:40:57 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: kxs401: Fell In Love With a Chair: You betcha, even if you send those farkers your last $80.

Then they call your folks, they pay $800, call you up screaming and tell you they're going to take you away from your partner, your house, your family, friends and support network, and make you live in their house in the middle of the woods on the complete opposite coast with no car, no possessions, and lots and lots of Jesus to pray the gay away while you get a job "somewhere in town" ten miles away.

Difficulty: no car, no sidewalks, and they're under a foot of snow already. I have decent outdoor survival skills but my mom works for the PD so if I did end up having to make an escape attempt, I wouldn't make it to the main road before I got caught. I have pals in NYC who're ready to come get me back if my partner tells them I went missing out here in CA.

I'm asking this seriously: how would your parents do that? Your parents cosigned the loans, which means they voluntarily agreed to make the payments if you couldn't. You can't, so it's their responsibility. If I were you, I might consider not taking my parents' phone calls anymore.

Private student loans are f*cking evil.

I've had them on my block list since then. They gave me a week to come up with $800 bucks and I managed $100 that I'm probably going to have to put toward sudden medical expense. However, that won't stop my dad from literally flying out here and pounding on my door until I call the cops. Or my mom mailing me a $500 plane ticket I'll have to refuse. They've threatened me with taking me out to their shack property in vermont (atv storage) and making me do nothing but chop wood and dig rocks for an entire year.

They have really humble origins, my dad was a dirt poor welder working on nuclear subs and my mom was a homebody who couldn't even drive. They didn't have money for food a lot of the time (it was the mid 70s) and their apartment didn't have heat, but they loved eachother and that was good enough. M ...


Just out of curiousity, do you have any local food banks or food shelves you can go to? (You might also find some local charitable organizations that could help you regardless of your religion or sexual orientation. ) I understand how it might be hard to take advantage of these resources if they're too far away or in bad parts of town, but it might be worth looking into. The local food bank in my area asks no questions--it just hands out boxes of food to whomever asks (albeit only once per month.) Some people might be too proud to stoop to asking for this level of help, but hey, if you need it, you need it.

You may also be able to find a local career center (like Sacramentoworks.org) that can help you in writing a resume or provide a database of local employers, give career seeking advice, etc. You might be aware of all of this stuff already, but I've known plenty of unemployed people who could have used the help but were unaware of it.
 
2012-11-13 07:43:27 PM  

WhoGAS: And you said " "I'm selfish and making excuses because I'm reluctant to work an ass-backwards minimum-wage job with no chance for advancement" as told by a generation that got the benefit of that middle class boom and have apparently decided they don't want anyone else to. "

So I was responding to your personal beliefs about those who didn't make it as you did, apparently. I'd rather everyone succeed according to their own definitions.


I ain't made it yet. I'm just tired of listening to mouthbreathers who got the benefit of the greatest middle class expansion in the history of the world, a government that was willing to spend money on infrastructure while taxing its richest to do it, and a private sector which acknowledge half-a-century of worker's rights gains to give people stable jobs and pensions, mouthbreathers who seem to think they got by on hard work and nothing else.
 
2012-11-13 07:43:56 PM  
I gotta step out for a bit.

I love you all so much, and thank you for the support. I needed that. I needed that badly. It's good to remember we're NOT alone, and we know that we try hard no matter what they say. Thank you all for understanding and giving stellar advice, sharing stories, and just listening, because sometimes that's what people need.

Hopefully I can get back to a computer before the thread is up! If not- thank you, thank you, and again, thank you.
 
2012-11-13 07:44:56 PM  
Personal responsibility.

Someone is holding this debt and a good chunk of it belongs to the Federal government, debt held privately would be written down. So at the end of the day the Federal government would either lose capital and revenue which means that tax payers would be on the hook.

Handle it like TARP, buy the debt with a catch. A 10% Federal tax on all income until the debt is paid, interest calculated at the prime rate. They can keep the degree, it will increase their earning power.
 
2012-11-13 07:45:31 PM  
Oh and I'll just leave this here as it seems appropriate:

The Beast That Swallows Its Young
 
2012-11-13 07:51:39 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Rye_: HotIgneous Intruder: kxs401: Get a restraining order, if necessary. Just cut them out of your life. Pay the student loans when you're able, but they voluntarily agreed to cosign. Legally, there's nothing they can do to you.

It'll be okay, I promise.

This times ten.
They signed the papers.

Yeah, fark them for trusting him. That's their own fault.

Fell In Love With a Chair, just forget about the debt altogether. Change your number. Move. Sallie Mae will go after your folks. Sure, your credit will be in the crapper for a long, long time, but that's gotta be someone else's fault, too. And fark them for not letting you read what you were signing, or giving you time to do a little math before forcing a pen in your hand. Where did they get off, taking advantage of somebody who couldn't think for himself? I'm with you buddy. I hope this all just goes away.

Your sarcasm is unwarranted. I'm guessing you don't remember what it was like being 17 or maybe you don't have a tiger mom, but going to college and where I went to college wasn't an option. They didn't have me read what I was signing, the sat me down at the kitchen table, gave me a pen, and told me I was going.

When you're 17, that is your whole world. You don't get a choice about what your parents tell you to do, unless you have somewhere else you can go. If I hadn't gone, I probably would have just killed myself instead. I spent every from my 15th birthday counting down til my high school graduation- that was the date I'd be able to leave and never come back. The fact that they presented me with an option that wasn't "cardboard box", you farking bet I signed. I signed every last paper and I'd probably do it again too.

Instead of busting ass and getting that 4.0 while having a part time job, I'd get a 2.0, as close to full time work as I could get, and then I'd quit college and not give my parents my address instead of being their debt slave for the rest of my life.


I'm sorry for your troubles, but it's difficult to be sympathetic when you take zero responsibility for the position you're in.

I took out a couple of sizable student loans when I was a kid, too. The last one was paid off this year. I'm 39. I'll bet you can wipe out $44k by the time you're 39.
 
2012-11-13 07:54:24 PM  

rumpelstiltskin: Why don't you apply for jobs in Santa Fe or Albuquerque? There are plenty of people who live on the hill and commute to Santa Fe.


Those people have cars. It is a hell of a hike to SF, and an even bigger schlep to ABQ. There is a bus that heads out there, but it only runs in the middle of the day on weedays. You damn well better believe though that if I get a car, job hunting in SF if going to be my life until I find work. Might even find it in my preferred industry if I can get there regularly.

Fell In Love With a Chair: If it comes down to it, joining the military is my last resort. I'll do it, if they'll have me (I have heart problems).


You won't. Tried that for exactly the same reason as you, and got turned away because of my heart problems. Nailed the ASVAB though.

Skywolf Philosopher: I really couldn't imagine how I'd do it if I didn't have the hope my God offers me.


THIS. I know Fark likes to bash on religion a lot, but if I didn't believe in a merciful, just, benevolent, and loving God I'd have blown my brains out years ago. But I do, so I don't, even though the temptation to do so is painfully strong sometimes.

I love you guys.
 
2012-11-13 07:57:54 PM  
Hi, Fell In Love With a Chair

Don't let the guys who mistake this is Fark for "I can be a cruel as I want" get you down

Maybe you ought to tell your parents the next time they call -- lay off or I WILL stick you with the bill
(after taping some of their crap and getting a restraining order.)

Here are some recent salary increases from Network World

That level of an increase usually means they need many more people

When you apply don't forget non-profits and public service
larger Libraries are usually happy to have an IT person on staff


If you have any experience with security or BYOD emphasize that, those positions are gold.

pure certification usually means dick but coursework in theory and 10 years of experience will help a great deal.

1. Mobile applications developer
2012 salary range: $85,000-$122,500
2013 salary range: $92,750-$133,500
Net: 9% increase

2. Wireless network engineer
2012 salary range: $79,250-$108,500
2013 salary range: $85,500-$117,000
Net: 7.9% increase

3. Network engineer
2012 salary range: $75,000-$107,750
2013 salary range: $80,750-$116,250
Net: 7.8% increase

4. Data modeler
2012 salary range: $85,500-$117,750
2013 salary range: $92,000-$126,750
Net: 7.6% increase

5. Portal administrator
2012 salary range: $80,500-$106,500
2013 salary range: $86,500-$114,500
Net: 7.5% increase

6. Data warehouse manager
2012 salary range: $101,250-$135,750
2013 salary range: $108,750-$145,750
Net: 7.4% increase

7. Business intelligence analyst

2012 salary range: $87,750-$123,500
2013 salary range: $94,250-$132,500
Net: 7.3% increase

8. Senior web developer
2012 salary range: $85,750-$118,500
2013 salary range: $92,000-$127,250
Net: 7.3% increase

9. Web developer
2012 salary range: $61,250-$99,250
2013 salary range: $65,750-$106,500
Net: 7.3% increase

10. Network architect
2012 salary range: $95,500-$137,000
2013 salary range: $102,250-$146,500
Net: 7% increase

11. Network manager
2012 salary range: $82,750-$114,500
2013 salary range: $88,500-$122,500
Net: 7% increase

12. Data architect
2012 salary range: $97,500-$134,250
2013 salary range: $104,250-$143,500
Net: 6.9% increase

13. Data security analyst
2012 salary range: $89,000-$121,500
2013 salary range: $95,000-$129,750
Net: 6.8% increase

14. Software engineer
2012 salary range: $78,250-$119,500
2013 salary range: $83,500-$127,750
Net: 6.8% increase

15. Network administrator
2012 salary range: $58,750-$87,250
2013 salary range: $62,750-$93,250
Net: 6.8% increase

best of luck
 
2012-11-13 08:02:13 PM  

Mike_LowELL: WhoGAS: And you said " "I'm selfish and making excuses because I'm reluctant to work an ass-backwards minimum-wage job with no chance for advancement" as told by a generation that got the benefit of that middle class boom and have apparently decided they don't want anyone else to. "

So I was responding to your personal beliefs about those who didn't make it as you did, apparently. I'd rather everyone succeed according to their own definitions.

I ain't made it yet. I'm just tired of listening to mouthbreathers who got the benefit of the greatest middle class expansion in the history of the world, a government that was willing to spend money on infrastructure while taxing its richest to do it, and a private sector which acknowledge half-a-century of worker's rights gains to give people stable jobs and pensions, mouthbreathers who seem to think they got by on hard work and nothing else.


oh, yeah, that's not what i'm saying at all, sorry if that's what you got. I just work hard and try to do the right thing which helps (doesn't hurt) but I am under no illusions that most of this is luck.

but I'm just saying, as advice to others, that it doesn't hurt.
 
2012-11-13 08:03:33 PM  

CujoQuarrel: Forty-Three: CujoQuarrel: Just checked the local Comm College and it's rates still seem reasonable (about 2k a semester) and the local University (about 4k a semester). This is for state residents.

So how did you guys get into so much debt?

4k tuition a semester for a 4 year degree means 32k on tuition alone. Adding books, fees, room and board about doubles that. Typical payment on a 60k plus loan is something in the neighborhodd of $600/month.

It would be a bit better if you frontloaded the first 2 years at community college so it.s
2+2+2+2 then 4+4+4+4 for 24k. You can cut down the number of years by taking extra courses so maybe save 4kish to get it to 20k.


I teach at a state university and can tell you that doing the first half of you degree at a CC solely to save money is not really worth it. If you're going to be a full time student and can get in, it's better to do the whole 4yrs in one place. A large percentage of the transfer students I have seen end up either getting not-so-good grades, having to re-take one or more classes or just learning less over all because the pre-requisites for the upper division classes don't quite match what they took at their last school. Taking more than the normal amount of classes is also usually a bad idea because people who are overworked don't process information very well. Overnighters and caffiene might help you memorize stuff for the test but won't really help you learn anything.

Books prices suck I agree, check into renting from Amazon or getting several friends to take the same course and share a book (used to do that way back when).

This whole textbook rental (and resale, for that matter) thing is a big racket. If you want to use your degree after you graduate keep your textbooks. Even if you don't, or if it's for a non-major class, keep them. They are required for your class (usually) because they are good books. When I was an undergrad, I sold the books for the couple history and literature classes I took because I didn't think I'd need them but ended up regretting it years later and buying new copies because I wanted to read them again.

If possible live at home (I actually lived in my car for six months).

If you happen to live in a town with a public university that has a solid program in your chosen major this is a good idea. Unfortunately, it only applies to a very small number of students.

Eat ramen. Don't party. Don't smoke. Don't drink.

Sort of. Depending on where you go to school you can save a little bit by living off campus in a place that has a kitchen so you can cook for yourself and eat cheaply but then you're on the hook for utilities and transportation. Last time I checked, here my U, a shared room in the dorms and 3 squares a day in the dining hall was about 1k a month. Living off campus here is maybe a hundred bucks cheaper (and that's only if you take a place without indoor plumbing) a month and takes up more of your time than living on campus so the on/off campus choice is mostly a lifestyle choice and makes a small difference financially.

You need to find a job while going to school and something to work at during the summers. Fast food delivery is the best if you can swing it during school. Mowing in the summers.

Most students here work a few hours during the semester and full time in the summer. Unless you hit the job lottery, this will not substantially reduce the cost of the education. The best jobs to get are the work study or research jobs in or related to your major and these usually do not pay very much.

All of these are nice suggestions but will maybe cut a 65k loan down to a 55k loan for most students. Every little bit counts of course, but we're still talking at least $500 a month in loan payments after graduation.
 
2012-11-13 08:04:20 PM  

jgi: I agree with paying back your loans if you agreed to them, from a moral standpoint, but sometimes I feel those morals faltering when I also consider that I feel it amoral to charge as much as schools do to 18 year olds and pile on the interest. It's becoming a grey area for me.


How the fark is it a grey? No one is forcing anyone to pay their tuition rates.

Oh, look, that Mercedes is really nice. Go into debt, over pay for the car and then whine that you can't pay and they charged you too much.
 
2012-11-13 08:04:24 PM  

Rye_: I'm sorry for your troubles, but it's difficult to be sympathetic when you take zero responsibility for the position you're in.


Taking personal responsibility for shiat that genuinely isn't your fault does not make you an upstanding, bootstrappy person. It makes you a doormat and a piece of shiat and it dooms you to always being one.

It sounds to me from what I've read of her posts, that she was forced into a shiatty situation by circumstance.

Now as for me? I made the decision to go to college. I was pressured, sure, but the decision was mine. The decision to leave school in order to avoid living on the streets was mine as well. I accept responsibility for those decisions, but I'd be a schmuck if I bore the responsibility for the circumstances that led to those decisions.
 
2012-11-13 08:04:26 PM  

Blues_X: nekom: Allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, like it used to be

That.


What would this do to make things better? May as well cut out the middle man and just pay for college kids education outright. Let me guess, you are all for that, right? What about middle class people who make too little to afford it, and too much for any aid? Screw them?

Where would there be any incentive to keep college costs down if Uncle Sam just pays anyway?
 
2012-11-13 08:11:54 PM  

radarlove: Taking personal responsibility for shiat that genuinely isn't your fault does not make you an upstanding, bootstrappy person. It makes you a doormat and a piece of shiat and it dooms you to always being one.


Well, sure, if you're able to convince yourself that the position you're in is genuinely not your fault. That's a great out.
 
2012-11-13 08:16:16 PM  

Rye_: radarlove: Taking personal responsibility for shiat that genuinely isn't your fault does not make you an upstanding, bootstrappy person. It makes you a doormat and a piece of shiat and it dooms you to always being one.

Well, sure, if you're able to convince yourself that the position you're in is genuinely not your fault. That's a great out.


From what I've read of her posts, he situation genuinely isn't. Maybe you know something I don't, maybe you're friends with her parents, maybe you're her dad...but I have to take her words at face value.
 
jgi
2012-11-13 08:19:15 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: jgi: I agree with paying back your loans if you agreed to them, from a moral standpoint, but sometimes I feel those morals faltering when I also consider that I feel it amoral to charge as much as schools do to 18 year olds and pile on the interest. It's becoming a grey area for me.

How the fark is it a grey? No one is forcing anyone to pay their tuition rates.

Oh, look, that Mercedes is really nice. Go into debt, over pay for the car and then whine that you can't pay and they charged you too much.


Kids are told by authority figures that they must go to college to get ahead in life. They are told any degree is worthwhile. These ideas aren't true of course, but when the people who hold the most authority in your little world (your parents, your teachers, your counselors, and to some extent the government) are telling you this is what you do, your mind doesn't really question it. Some particularly bright kids do question it and maybe do something else. But to expect every child to weigh the financial consequences of doing what they are told to do is really an absurd notion. In our current culture, the entire institution is becoming a grey area.
 
2012-11-13 08:19:29 PM  

Forty-Three: All of these are nice suggestions but will maybe cut a 65k loan down to a 55k loan for most students. Every little bit counts of course, but we're still talking at least $500 a month in loan payments after graduation.


Your suggestions seem somewhat palid.
Can't put my finger on why.
 
2012-11-13 08:21:34 PM  

Skywolf Philosopher: Ah yes, and this thread, strangely, is therapeutic for me. I normally hang out here for cheap laughs and pub humor, but damn it feels good to know that other folks are 'up in the same snatch' as I am. Car breaking down, struggling to get by, jobs don't want me around, I just get depressed and sigh, 'Why?' I feel like I'm alone sometimes.

/To all the other Farkers simply stuck in a quicksand pit of debt or poverty, y'all have my heartfelt condolences. It's maddening and dispiriting not being able to get by, and I really couldn't imagine how I'd do it if I didn't have the hope my God offers me.


You can NOT petition the lord!
/JM
 
2012-11-13 08:24:54 PM  

knbber2: Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee, to hell with personal responsibility. a man after midnight

 
2012-11-13 08:26:04 PM  

Rye_: radarlove: Taking personal responsibility for shiat that genuinely isn't your fault does not make you an upstanding, bootstrappy person. It makes you a doormat and a piece of shiat and it dooms you to always being one.

Well, sure, if you're able to convince yourself that the position you're in is genuinely not your fault. That's a great out.


Well, this is her fault, but at the same time her parents share a good part of the responsibility for their situation. Nobody held them down and made them cosign the notes.
Actions have consequences.
Their aggression and threats aren't helping payments magically appear.
They're probably inflicting a "life lesson" on their daughter, but these actions, too, will have consequences.
 
2012-11-13 08:31:28 PM  

radarlove: From what I've read of her posts, he situation genuinely isn't.


I read those posts, too. She saw a way out of a home life she didn't like, a way to go to college, accepted the terms, signed the papers, and now doesn't like the terms she agreed to.

I get it: Nobody wants to be $44k in debt, and nobody likes to believe that the choices they made put them there. It's a tough situation, but accept that you're in that situation and work to get yourself out. Stop saying it's not your fault.
 
2012-11-13 08:32:47 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Well, this is her fault, but at the same time her parents share a good part of the responsibility for their situation. Nobody held them down and made them cosign the notes.
Actions have consequences.
Their aggression and threats aren't helping payments magically appear.
They're probably inflicting a "life lesson" on their daughter, but these actions, too, will have consequences.


I agree.
 
2012-11-13 08:38:30 PM  

Rye_: I read those posts, too. She saw a way out of a home life she didn't like, a way to go to college, accepted the terms, signed the papers, and now doesn't like the terms she agreed to.


See, what I read in her posts was that she did what her parents told her to do. I was raised similarly. You either did what your parents told you to do, or you went to the hospital again with another broken bone due to "sibling roughhousing." Maybe I misread, maybe I'm projecting, but I saw her family life as similar to mine. I do what my parents tell me to do.
 
2012-11-13 08:46:15 PM  
I agree on allowing student loan debt to be cleared in Bankruptcy and also have colleges drop pointless majors that do not lead to jobs that could pay back the student loans taken out to pay for the education.

Examples : Philosophy and liberal arts.
 
2012-11-13 08:49:25 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Forty-Three: All of these are nice suggestions but will maybe cut a 65k loan down to a 55k loan for most students. Every little bit counts of course, but we're still talking at least $500 a month in loan payments after graduation.

Your suggestions seem somewhat palid.
Can't put my finger on why.


Eh. It's probably because there isn't much in the way of one-size-fits-all suggestions to give to college students that will magically reduce the average cost of their college education without compromising the quality. Broad answers to questions with few specifics tend to be boring and obvious.
 
2012-11-13 08:53:38 PM  

radarlove: Rye_: I read those posts, too. She saw a way out of a home life she didn't like, a way to go to college, accepted the terms, signed the papers, and now doesn't like the terms she agreed to.

See, what I read in her posts was that she did what her parents told her to do. I was raised similarly. You either did what your parents told you to do, or you went to the hospital again with another broken bone due to "sibling roughhousing." Maybe I misread, maybe I'm projecting, but I saw her family life as similar to mine. I do what my parents tell me to do.


Like pay your debts?

Listen, she can either pay what she owes or leave it to her folks to take care of. If she's ok with whatever consequences come from the latter, who am I to argue? Sounds like they don't get along, anyway.
 
2012-11-13 08:58:27 PM  

WhoGAS: Mike_LowELL: WhoGAS: I can't say that working a minimum wage job will start you on the path to "success" but I can definitely say that sticking to your values, looking out for others and thinking about the big picture outside your own selfish world will get you further than you believe. But it has to be genuine...you have to change yourself for real, not just go through the motions.

My only advice as an "older american" is that hard work and focusing on the positive will get you further in life than where you are now. No big promises of riches, but it won't hurt to get rid of the excuses with which you hold yourself back.

"Politicians and businessmen spend the last thirty years systematically destroying the social safety nets that led to the largest middle class boom in the history of the world" equals "I'm selfish and making excuses because I'm reluctant to work an ass-backwards minimum-wage job with no chance for advancement" as told by a generation that got the benefit of that middle class boom and have apparently decided they don't want anyone else to.

Got it.

I don't understand what you're trying to convey.

I don't agree with your viewpoint of yourself saying that "you're selfish and you're making excuses" because that's just a bad attitude to have in life.

And why wouldn't you want others to enjoy the benefit of what you got? That's silly. Why wouldn't you want people to succeed as you did?


Technically the more success others have, the less yours is worth.
 
2012-11-13 08:58:39 PM  
For the record, I'm not saying I'm not culpable, and I HAVE been paying them down. When I have a job, this isn't an issue so much (okay... $500/mo is a bit to handle sometimes) and I've always done everything I could to keep it off my parent's back. I'm saying 17 is a bad age to decide whether or not you want to be in debt for the next 15 years, and that if you stumble, Sallie Mae is completely ruthless. farking me into bankruptcy and going after my parents is NOT how to get money out of me.

I think educating teenagers on debt management while still in highschool and helping them make educated choices (regardless of of "you're going, sign here") would really help students out later in life.


I'm still on the hook, I'm still paying.... they just have no options to offer an unemployed person with zero income, which sucks. I sent them $80, they called me ten times a day. Ain't got nothin left to give.

/Back and catching up on the thread!
 
2012-11-13 09:02:26 PM  

Mike_LowELL: WhoGAS: And you said " "I'm selfish and making excuses because I'm reluctant to work an ass-backwards minimum-wage job with no chance for advancement" as told by a generation that got the benefit of that middle class boom and have apparently decided they don't want anyone else to. "

So I was responding to your personal beliefs about those who didn't make it as you did, apparently. I'd rather everyone succeed according to their own definitions.

I ain't made it yet. I'm just tired of listening to mouthbreathers who got the benefit of the greatest middle class expansion in the history of the world, a government that was willing to spend money on infrastructure while taxing its richest to do it, and a private sector which acknowledge half-a-century of worker's rights gains to give people stable jobs and pensions, mouthbreathers who seem to think they got by on hard work and nothing else.


Unfortunately most people can be replaced with a Perl script.
 
2012-11-13 09:03:26 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: For the record, I'm not saying I'm not culpable, and I HAVE been paying them down. When I have a job, this isn't an issue so much (okay... $500/mo is a bit to handle sometimes) and I've always done everything I could to keep it off my parent's back. I'm saying 17 is a bad age to decide whether or not you want to be in debt for the next 15 years, and that if you stumble, Sallie Mae is completely ruthless. farking me into bankruptcy and going after my parents is NOT how to get money out of me.

I think educating teenagers on debt management while still in highschool and helping them make educated choices (regardless of of "you're going, sign here") would really help students out later in life.

I'm still on the hook, I'm still paying.... they just have no options to offer an unemployed person with zero income, which sucks. I sent them $80, they called me ten times a day. Ain't got nothin left to give.

/Back and catching up on the thread!


Best of luck to you!
 
2012-11-13 09:21:44 PM  

signaljammer: Another country that is able to scrape by in the dark while providing free college: Germany.


They also have that pesky two years of federal service thing.
 
2012-11-13 09:29:05 PM  

signaljammer: Another country that is able to scrape by in the dark while providing free college: Germany.


I think you mean no money out of pocket. No such thing as free. It's paid for somehow!
 
2012-11-13 09:30:54 PM  
Hung out at a gas station with the illegals to pick up landscaping work.
Worked muultiple jobs below minimum wage
Have $250,000 in student loan debt.

Thinks the trophy generation is a bunch of entitled whiners.
 
2012-11-13 09:35:20 PM  

jnapier: Hung out at a gas station with the illegals to pick up landscaping work.
Worked muultiple jobs below minimum wage
Have $250,000 in student loan debt.

Thinks the trophy generation is a bunch of entitled whiners.


Ummmmmmm...I don't really think I'm entitled to jack shiat except for a peaceful death that doesn't fark over anyone else, but you are MOST DEFINITELY entitled to a minimum wage. If you work for less than that, you are perpetuating a system that screws over EVERYONE.
 
2012-11-13 09:43:39 PM  

propasaurus: Courtesy of @IowaHawkBlog, great thinker of our time

fark you, you self-aggrandizing, entitled little shiatstain.

Oh, wait. He's not a whiny little recent grad. He's a grown-ass man with 2 kids and a blog that links to the entire constellation of right-wing nut jobbery.

fark you, you teatard shiatstain.


I'm quite certain he would be flattered that his humble website, filled with ideas you apparently cannot comprehend without bursting into tears, has ruined your day (life?).

Awesome.
 
2012-11-13 10:00:11 PM  
I could have went to school for free but partying made me drop out after 4 semesters. Fast forward 10 years and I'm still paying off the loans I stupidly maxed out for cash in pocket each semester. I wish I had stayed in and just let grants pay for almost everything but going back now seems like a really bad idea with tuition seemingly at least doubling in the last 10 years and the market being seriously flooded with people with degrees having trouble finding work.

I really do feel for kids pretty much having go in huge debt right out of hichschool just because college is just like any other greed driven business. How else would you explain such a rise is costs for something that is mostly intellectual and not a commodity?
 
2012-11-13 10:03:25 PM  

ds615: How about if we just stop offering student loans?

/ no, really.


Well then less people would be able to go to college and it may result in a drop in tuition. Personally my student loans go to paying for housing and food as tuition is covered 100% by grants and scholarship type items. I have 3 AA degrees and yet I don't get call backs from places actively hiring at minimum wage. Plenty of previous job experience but advanced soldering, computer programming and IT work apparently don't rub Safeway the right way.
 
2012-11-13 10:12:50 PM  

SuperDuper28: I could have went to school for free but partying made me drop out after 4 semesters. Fast forward 10 years and I'm still paying off the loans I stupidly maxed out for cash in pocket each semester. I wish I had stayed in and just let grants pay for almost everything but going back now seems like a really bad idea with tuition seemingly at least doubling in the last 10 years and the market being seriously flooded with people with degrees having trouble finding work.

I really do feel for kids pretty much having go in huge debt right out of hichschool just because college is just like any other greed driven business. How else would you explain such a rise is costs for something that is mostly intellectual and not a commodity?


Fancy gyms, residence halls that will be nicer than your first apartment out of school, things like that.
Also the fact that the states have been steadily cutting the funding they used to give the universities, so they have to make up the shortfall somewhere, at least that's how I understand it.

/Back in school at a state U in the southwest
//3030.40 per semester, still haven't seen the inside of the rec center or the fancy new residence halls
///Too old for that stuff
 
2012-11-13 10:35:06 PM  

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: I'm down to minimum wage, and still have trouble finding work. There's no way to lower my standards further. And when you can get work, they know you're desperate. Last job I had at $7.50/hr had me getting up at 3:30 in the morning and basically being completely responsible for $200,000+ in merchandise for 8-14 hours that day. Complain and you can GTFO. Minor farkup, you can GTFO. Looking at doing federal time if anything goes missing. Required CLEAN criminal history and MVR, drug screen, all that jazz.

For a minimum wage job. IF you can get it.

This guy gets it. I know my wife doesn't need me. I haven't had a "real" job in over five years now. She's been paying the bills, basically by herself. You have to be here to understand our kind of desperation. But I put on the optimistic face, keep sending resumes and filling out shiatty online apps. Swearing profusely every time that phone call turned out to be a telemarketer or bill collector or student loan collector instead of someone with some paying work. shiat sucks, and times are desperate as hell, but I still try.

If I wasn't a damned good father and one hell of a cook, I'd likely have been out on my ass years ago.

/two cents
//still happy with what I got


I'm in the same boat. Stuck in Huntsville, Alabama after getting my two-year at CC in Seattle. Thought I was doing the right thing by moving here to help my parents. But even in-state tuition is too much when you can't find any work!
 
2012-11-13 10:36:59 PM  

radarlove: jnapier: Hung out at a gas station with the illegals to pick up landscaping work.
Worked muultiple jobs below minimum wage
Have $250,000 in student loan debt.

Thinks the trophy generation is a bunch of entitled whiners.

Ummmmmmm...I don't really think I'm entitled to jack shiat except for a peaceful death that doesn't fark over anyone else, but you are MOST DEFINITELY entitled to a minimum wage. If you work for less than that, you are perpetuating a system that screws over EVERYONE.


Try being a waiter. Unless you live in a larger city, you are SCREWED. And for the record, it seems like a lot of pople are in similar situations...
 
2012-11-13 11:01:19 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: For the record, I'm not saying I'm not culpable, and I HAVE been paying them down. When I have a job, this isn't an issue so much (okay... $500/mo is a bit to handle sometimes) and I've always done everything I could to keep it off my parent's back. I'm saying 17 is a bad age to decide whether or not you want to be in debt for the next 15 years, and that if you stumble, Sallie Mae is completely ruthless. farking me into bankruptcy and going after my parents is NOT how to get money out of me.

I think educating teenagers on debt management while still in highschool and helping them make educated choices (regardless of of "you're going, sign here") would really help students out later in life.

I'm still on the hook, I'm still paying.... they just have no options to offer an unemployed person with zero income, which sucks. I sent them $80, they called me ten times a day. Ain't got nothin left to give.

/Back and catching up on the thread!


If you're willing to slum it until you find better, may I suggest the Starbucks at harbor point (off the 80)? Always hiring because it's 24 hrs. It will sap your spirit, but hey, DOLLAH DOLLAH BILLS!

/At least I feel like a read that you were in Sac somewhere in this thread
 
2012-11-14 12:11:46 AM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Even with a bachelor's degree, 10+ years of experience in my field (IT/Networking), clean drug/background/dmv screens, a willingness to work for just barely above minimum wage, and I'm STILL having a hard time finding work. Meanwhile Sallie Mae wants $500 a month. My income is next to nothing, I do art commissions for $10-20 bucks a pop. I'll do literally anything legal for money, $500/mo is more than my rent by a fair share. I live with my ex-girlfriend. She pays my rent still. I don't know why.


Part of it is location. Where I'm at we cannot find enough GOOD IT people. Pay isn't great, but it's pretty darn good. An entry level web dev is going to make 60+. With 10 years of experience you should easily be in the 80-90 range. Once again it's about where you're located and how hot the IT industry is there. The one downside here is if you've been unemployed for a substantial amount of time. The company I used to contract for could not find enough people for the work.

//Central Ohio
 
2012-11-14 12:38:34 AM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.

I was told on the phone that I still don't meet the criteria because my cosigner isn't in hardship (they're just estranged/disowned) and since they're private loans apparently I don't qualify for having used a hardship deferral in the past.


Move to the Dakotas. They have plenty of jobs.

Or go overseas and teach English.
 
2012-11-14 12:43:54 AM  

knbber2: Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee, to hell with personal responsibility.


Attitude reflects leadership.
 
2012-11-14 12:55:05 AM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.


You were probably raised to believe that using welfare or social services of any kind is somehow shameful.
It's not. The reason we have those services is so that they're there when you need it, like now.
In Sacramento, here are some resources to tide you over:
Sacramento One Stop Career Center (job leads, interview practice, all free - and they may have paid on-the-job-training programs too, but each center varies) Link
Find a location in Sacramento County where you can enroll in health care by calling (916) 874-2072 or Healthy Families and MediCal (800) 880-5305
Find out how you can apply for assistance Link
 
2012-11-14 01:02:45 AM  

Ponzholio: Because of the inability of recent college graduates to find gainful employment in order to repay their college debt, and since this college debt cannot be eliminated in bankruptcy, and most of the recent additions to the job market have been in service related industries, the Obama administration should take up the cause of reducing college debt and hold those accountable responsible.

And who, pray tell, is accountable for YOUR debt?


According to my current state law, if I go AWOL or die, my spouse.

/which is completely bs law by the way.
//house always wins apparently.
 
2012-11-14 01:16:52 AM  

Soymilk: Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.


You were probably raised to believe that using welfare or social services of any kind is somehow shameful.
It's not. The reason we have those services is so that they're there when you need it, like now.
In Sacramento, here are some resources to tide you over:
Sacramento One Stop Career Center (job leads, interview practice, all free - and they may have paid on-the-job-training programs too, but each center varies) Link
Find a location in Sacramento County where you can enroll in health care by calling (916) 874-2072 or Healthy Families and MediCal (800) 880-5305
Find out how you can apply for assistance Link


Between you and the guy who guessed that not going to college would have been met with violence earlier upthread, you guys are pulling secrets out of me left and right.

I don't think I qualify for most stuff. :c The CMISP stuff yeah, though not mediCal.

I want to do EBT because I'm literally eating all I have left of my money, but my roomate/ex has a good job and thousands of dollars and literally won't buy me food. She just eats at work. However, since she's in the 'household' that counts against me, doesn't it? She DEFINITELY doesn't qualify for assistance and if we're in a 'household' together, whatever that means, well.... why the hell would they expect her to feed me?!
 
2012-11-14 01:28:44 AM  

Soymilk: You were probably raised to believe that using welfare or social services of any kind is somehow shameful.
It's not. The reason we have those services is so that they're there when you need it, like now.
In Sacramento, here are some resources to tide you over:
Sacramento One Stop Career Center (job leads, interview practice, all free - and they may have paid on-the-job-training programs too, but each center varies) Link
Find a location in Sacramento County where you can enroll in health care by calling (916) 874-2072 or Healthy Families and MediCal (800) 880-5305
Find out how you can apply for assistance Link


God, I'm rude as fark. Thank you so much for getting that info together for me, I'll be calling the Sac County health in the morning (what's the point in holding out for a non-contract job with insurance while my eyes literally need treatment NOW) and check out the career centre in the meanwhile. That was really sweet of you.
 
2012-11-14 01:37:20 AM  
The problem is that neither the lenders nor the schools take on any of the risk. The student takes on the entire risk.

Because student debt can't be absolved in bankruptcy, students are on the hook for it for life. It WILL be paid back at some point. The lender will make their money. They have zero risk, as opposed to normal lending situations which have risk and therefore force the lender to be discretionary. With current practice and no risk, there is no discretionary student lending. For instance, lenders could require student loan applicants to maintain degree declarations in fields that are actually hiring. They could do a lot of stuff to reduce risk IF they actually had risk. Give them some of the risk.

Schools also don't have any risk. They know all their consumers will have rubber-stamped infinite loan potential. Hence they can set their pricing non-competitively and jack up rates however they wish. Give them some of the risk.

Put a time-delay in for declaring bankruptcy after graduation. The entire "can't declare bankruptcy" was to ensure kids don't graduate with not a penny to their name and declare just to move on. Instead, make them not able to declare it for a minimum 5 year period. Force them to try to go out and get rid of that debt first, or live shiatty for five years. Maybe make it 10. Or make it dynamically dependent on how much debt is incurred: the more debt you have the longer you must wait until able to declare.
 
2012-11-14 02:38:02 AM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Soymilk: Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.

You were probably raised to believe that using welfare or social services of any kind is somehow shameful.
It's not. The reason we have those services is so that they're there when you need it, like now.
In Sacramento, here are some resources to tide you over:
Sacramento One Stop Career Center (job leads, interview practice, all free - and they may have paid on-the-job-training programs too, but each center varies) Link
Find a location in Sacramento County where you can enroll in health care by calling (916) 874-2072 or Healthy Families and MediCal (800) 880-5305
Find out how you can apply for assistance Link

Between you and the guy who guessed that not going to college would have been met with violence earlier upthread, you guys are pulling secrets out of me left and right.

I don't think I qualify for most stuff. :c The CMISP stuff yeah, though not mediCal.

I want to do EBT because I'm literally eating all I have left of my money, but my roomate/ex has a good job and thousands of dollars and literally won't buy me food. She just eats at work. However, since she's in the 'household' that counts against me, doesn't it? She DEFINITELY doesn't qualify for assistance and if we're in a 'household' together, whatever that means, well.... why the hell would they expect her to feed me?!


FWIW, I'm not sure a roommate really counts as 'household' if you are not combining expenses. But it costs nothing to look into it by contacting the agencies.

Do try the Career Center though - they have multiple locations, there must be one near you. I work with the centers in Southern California and it's like the best kept secret ever.
 
2012-11-14 03:51:16 AM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Soymilk: You were probably raised to believe that using welfare or social services of any kind is somehow shameful.
It's not. The reason we have those services is so that they're there when you need it, like now.
In Sacramento, here are some resources to tide you over:
Sacramento One Stop Career Center (job leads, interview practice, all free - and they may have paid on-the-job-training programs too, but each center varies) Link
Find a location in Sacramento County where you can enroll in health care by calling (916) 874-2072 or Healthy Families and MediCal (800) 880-5305
Find out how you can apply for assistance Link

God, I'm rude as fark. Thank you so much for getting that info together for me, I'll be calling the Sac County health in the morning (what's the point in holding out for a non-contract job with insurance while my eyes literally need treatment NOW) and check out the career centre in the meanwhile. That was really sweet of you.


I want to also say Sacramento is a very rough economic environment, so do not feel bad. I see more beggars in Sacramento than I did in China. I see more grown men with bicycle trailers of recycling stuff they have scrounged than in 3rd world countries.

If you need the assistance take it - that's what its there for. If it can tide you over, you should volunteer at some place using your skills so that while you are looking for a job you are getting quasi-work experience. Hell, volunteer to help small companies for free. You will get recommendation letters at least and begin networking. Sending in applications or sending out resumes is not how most people get hired.
 
2012-11-14 04:03:38 AM  
I am OK with this. Let the students turn in their diploma and have their student loans erased from the books, provided, of course, that they can figure out some way to remove the knowledge from their brain, too. I am thinking full frontal lobotomy.
 
2012-11-14 06:35:24 AM  
That pesky 3.8% unemployment for college grads is a real pain in the ass......
 
2012-11-14 07:01:28 AM  
But just think about high educated all of our waiters and waitresses will be though.

In any case, I think the government has already spent enough money. Could you imagine how much our debt would be if the government paid off every college students loans in the entire country?
You think $16.4 trillion is high?
 
2012-11-14 08:43:13 AM  
I'm all for personal responsibility. Yes. Definitely.

The government should adopt a vigorous policy of expecting more responsibility, starting with:

(a) the banks, and
(b) academia.

The only way to make banks and colleges more personally responsible for their actions (i.e., their failures) is to remove the massive, multi-trillion-dollar subsidies (extracted by force from taxpayers) that they currently enjoy. These subsidies are largely in the form of government sponsorship of debt.

If these organizations can't hack it, and succeed on their own, staffed though they are with the very best and brightest people in the world, then fark them. They should be responsible for their failure to run a successful enterprise, and be left to find another line of work.
 
2012-11-14 08:50:21 AM  
"hold those accountable responsible"

Always good when your petition contradicts itself half way through. The students are the ones responsible, or in this case, irresponsible.
 
2012-11-14 08:56:37 AM  

Elandriel: Well, with the first two posters' idiocy out of the way, while this is a bit far-fetched it once again brings to light the point that many employers won't hire without some fancy sheet of paper that asserts the holder somehow knows how to do the job for which they are applying, and the only way to get that piece of paper is to place yourself in the amount of debt similar to a goddamn home mortgage.

Also while the market is certainly saturated, I doubt an MBA is ewquivalent to a degree in UWBW. And, as far as personal responsibility goes, when a college states "You have like a 68% higher chance of getting your dream job at a 42% higher salary!" and then you graduate and the market says "It's called the honey pot son, she played you good", well maybe those farkers would love to make those bill payments, but they can't afford to.


College only costs as much as a mortgage if you're irresponsible about where you go to school. I went to a SUNY school at about $5,500 a year for undergrad and $10,000 a year for grad school. With the scholarship I got I was getting paid $1,400 a semester to go to school when I was commuting and living with my parents. Once I moved out my expenses were a little higher so I wasn't profiting off college anymore.

But I understand, they had to go to that $40,000 a year party school as far away from home as possible so they could skip classes and drink all day.
 
2012-11-14 08:59:49 AM  

Elandriel: Meh said it better than I did. I work in bankruptcy. The two things I see as the primary cause are medical bills and home mortgages, and in the vast majority of bk petitions I review I see student loans, often above six digits. What an act of collusion to make them immune from discharge. They should have made it more like the "910" clause in Chapter 13 whereby you can't simply discharge them immediately after school, but to make them entirely non-dischargable absent ridiculously difficult to satisfy requirements?


What school charges over a million dollars for a degree? Above six digits means seven or more...

Mortgages should also be non-dischargable. You don't want to let the "bankers that got us into this mess" to go back to their unregulated state, do you?
 
2012-11-14 09:03:25 AM  

Elandriel: I know the argument is essentially "The debtor has received a [tangible] service and/or product to which the creditor has no recompense" but then you know what? Maybe don't make your farking school so expensive.

And of course, if anyone wants to know the real reason why tuition rates have skyrocketed, look no further than the fact that you can not ever, ever escape them, even through bankruptcy, and in some cases death.


Yeah they should lower prices because you're far too stupid to be expected to make responsible decisions, like not going to a school you can't afford.

Tuition rates are up because people who are too dumb for college are going to college. When prices rise it is to curtail demand.
 
2012-11-14 09:06:36 AM  

EnviroDude: All you have to do is sign up for the military after graduation. They give you $$$$ and you sign a few years of your life away as an indentured servant. When your time is up, you leave. Now, you are a vet and you get points when job hunting.

It may not pay off all your loans, but you scammed the system by avoiding the ritualistic ROTC and having to walk around campus in the uniforms and passing inspections every week.


/didn't do this because (gasp) I worked a PT job making enough money in the summers and holidays to pay tuition, room, board, books, spending money, etc....

but did have a couple of friends that got a full ride on an Air Force ROTC program.

saw one of my fellow graduates join the Air Force after not being able to find a job. The ROTC guys jaws dropped when they saw that he got the money they got up front.

//was a couple of weeks away from joining before I got a job working offshore


The same people who can't find a job after college were the ones who couldn't go to class because they were busy drinking. So ROTC is definitely out.
 
2012-11-14 09:14:29 AM  

bulldg4life: nburghmatt: how exactly do you forfeit a diploma? do they go into your records and white it out?

They cook your brain at 105 degrees until you can do basic algebra and read at a 12th grade level


Wait, most college graduates can do algebra and read? Who did I go to school with then?
 
2012-11-14 09:28:39 AM  

Soymilk: Elandriel: you can not ever, ever escape them, even through bankruptcy, and in some cases death.

Are you serious? Holy shiat.

I paid off mine a long time ago, but really, until after death? Who do they try to collect from?


You can't borrow a ton of money and die... the debt passes on to your kids.
 
2012-11-14 09:32:22 AM  

Communist_Manifesto: This would sure as shiat help me out and I'm not one of these "snowflakes" I hear so much who took out loans to pay for everything and not work while in college. I worked full time (I was a service technician for a large window and door company theyy let me work 3 12 hour days on monday, wednesday, and friday plus any weekend appointments I could make it to while going to class from 8-6 on tuesday and thursday) while going to school full time and I still had to take out loans. I was able to pay for about 2 years my self but I still have about 13k in debt. I want to choke out every mother farker that says, "Well maybe they should have tried to pay for school themselves". I would have had to give literally like 60% of my income for just tuition. At a STATE SCHOOL. I graduated in 08, I can't even imagine how much more it must cost to go now and it has only been 4 years. I personally think we should make higher education free to all who want it and are able to pass the aptitude tests required to get in to college, but I think that's a bigger pipe dream than a discharge of debt.


No scholarships or financial aid? I mean, bravo for working and all, but if you can't get a scholarship with the billions of free dollars floating around out there...
 
2012-11-14 09:59:17 AM  

kxs401: CujoQuarrel: kxs401: CujoQuarrel: kxs401: I have $900 a month in private student loan bills. My DoE debt is bigger, but more easily manageable. I'm not really sure how I'm ever supposed to start a life, buy a house, have children with this millstone around my neck.

Well, you could have just not borrowed all that money.

I suppose so, but once I started, I felt like I needed a degree to be able to pay off the debt I had already accumulated, which required... taking out more loans.

What did you major in?

I have a BS in Economics.


So your career end game is what, having a tv segment on CNN?

A degree in Economics is only for people who plan on doing grad school and a PhD to become a professor of economics.
 
2012-11-14 11:53:30 AM  
When I was 5 (maybe 6) my dad taught me about loans using an instance where I wanted to buy a candy-bar I did not have the money for.

So at 6 I knew that, 1) when you borrow money you pay it back on a schedule, 2) you pay some interest even if paying on time, 3) you can pay penalties if you don't pay on time.

Six. I knew this when I was six. And now we have a generation of uneducated, really quite stupid in the cow-chewing-the-cud sense, so-called "graduates" who don't know - in their 20's - what I knew at the age of six.

Jesus you f*ckers are stupid. There's no "loan crises" - there's just a bunch of fuctards who apparently never learned you pay back money you borrow.

I think anyone who is in default or behind on student loan payments needs to have that red-stamped into their credit files and not be allowed to buy ANYTHING on credit (from a sweater to a car or home) UNTIL they become current on the loan. Period.

Learn to be adults, people. You can't hide behind mom and dad forever.
 
2012-11-14 12:40:29 PM  

DaCaptain19:
Jesus you f*ckers are stupid. There's no "loan crises" - there's just a bunch of fuctards who apparently never learned you pay back money you borrow.


Don't be cruel. Most people are doing their best to pay it back. They are not lazy or stupid or farktards. An economic/health setback can happen to anyone - remember, there but for the grace of God go you, too.
 
2012-11-14 01:03:32 PM  

CujoQuarrel: Just checked the local Comm College and it's rates still seem reasonable (about 2k a semester) and the local University (about 4k a semester). This is for state residents.

So how did you guys get into so much debt?


There's no point in going to college unless it is on a beach in California or Flordia!!! Where will they have keg parties?
 
2012-11-14 01:05:48 PM  

signaljammer: Regionalism seems to play a role in this. In a first-world American city, 'flipping burgers' just isn't gonna cover the rent.


Only idiots live in cities.
 
2012-11-14 01:07:06 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Noticeably F.A.T.: Fell In Love With a Chair: Get over yourself, kid. You're not too good to make fries.

I can't remember where I read it, but I do remember reading an article that made a whole lot of sense that said that it's really no wonder that there is an entire generation that thinks that it is above flipping burgers because for their entire lives that they are above flipping burgers. "You'd better go to school, you'd better get a degree, you don't want to spend your life flipping burgers, do you?" Now, it's not true and they are going to get a quick reality check, but can you really put to much blame on them for thinking like that when that's the only way they have been taught to think?

I'd flip burgers. I'd flip burgers right now. I'd do it for twelve straight hours. For the love of god, if you know someone who needs burgers flipped, I'll do it. Partly why I can't get hired is because I have literally no burger flipping experience. At 16 I was the IT person/webmaster for a medium sized local business (Mustang Motorcycle Seats, actually). I'd flip every farking burger I swear to god I'm so desperate. I can't even sell my farking jalopy car for enough money to pay this shiat off. I need it though to live in, in case my ex decides she doesn't want me around any longer.


The McDonalds down the street from me has open hiring advertised four days a week. Seems like everyone who works there is black, so I guess they get bused in from the city to work in the suburbs.
 
2012-11-14 01:09:44 PM  

Russky: olddinosaur: No symping farkathy here.

I graduated into the teeth of Nixon's recession with $100 in my pocket, no debts and a 5--year--old car.

There were no jobs for educated people so I had to work for two years as a laborer before I could stack up enough money to leave that dead--end town.

Suck it up crybabies, you make me flucking sick.

Do you honestly think that the debt incurred back then and the price of tuition is even close to the same? Before you answer, tuition has increased at twice the rate of normal inflation since 1970,

Since 1970 tuition and fees at UT have risen for undergraduates, the increase has been around 400 percent. In 1970, tuition was $50 for any in-state student enrolled in any college or school for any number of credit hours. Fees were $54 for anyone enrolled at the University. In the Fall semester of 2002, you won't get a twelve hour course load for less than $2,300.


12 credits? If you aren't taking 18 to 21 credits you're not in a real major.
 
2012-11-14 01:17:45 PM  

odinsposse: signaljammer: 'Flipping burgers' isn't a practical remedy in a country saturated with guest workers, is it?

Also it's hard for someone with a college degree to get a burger flipping job because they're overqualified. They know you will drop them in a second to work in your field (assuming you didn't get a degree in high heat grease dispensing).


So... don't list your degree on your resume.


Did you take a class on critical thinking or problem solving? You probably should have.
 
2012-11-14 01:19:59 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.


Total Fark subscription, no problem!
Internet connection, no problem!
Computer, no problem!


What? No I don't have money to pay my bills. Go away.
 
2012-11-14 01:58:20 PM  
The real problem is that we are telling everyone that they need to go to college.
 
2012-11-14 02:06:43 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: kxs401: Fell In Love With a Chair: HotIgneous Intruder: Fell In Love With a Chair: Apparently according to lots of people in this thread, I should... shut up and pay somehow.

You can't get blood from a stone you unsympathetic assholes.

Hardship deferral.
I say again: HARDSHIP DEFERRAL.
Sallie Mae does this right online.

I was told on the phone that I still don't meet the criteria because my cosigner isn't in hardship (they're just estranged/disowned) and since they're private loans apparently I don't qualify for having used a hardship deferral in the past.

If your parents cosigned, they should help you out with the loans. It will negatively affect your parents' credit if the loans aren't paid on time.

You betcha, even if you send those farkers your last $80.

Then they call your folks, they pay $800, call you up screaming and tell you they're going to take you away from your partner, your house, your family, friends and support network, and make you live in their house in the middle of the woods on the complete opposite coast with no car, no possessions, and lots and lots of Jesus to pray the gay away while you get a job "somewhere in town" ten miles away.

Difficulty: no car, no sidewalks, and they're under a foot of snow already. I have decent outdoor survival skills but my mom works for the PD so if I did end up having to make an escape attempt, I wouldn't make it to the main road before I got caught. I have pals in NYC who're ready to come get me back if my partner tells them I went missing out here in CA.


I guess it could be worse, you could be gay. Oh crap, sorry...
 
2012-11-14 02:53:08 PM  

Bullseyed: Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.

Total Fark subscription, no problem!
Internet connection, no problem!
Computer, no problem!
What? No I don't have money to pay my bills. Go away.


Jesus farking christ, I explained it upthread. I live with my ex-girlfriend as a couch surfer, I'm on her computer and internet connection. I SKIPPED EATING to buy TF so I could talk to mechanics in the TFD area about my farking piece of shiat car, you ass.
 
2012-11-14 03:11:53 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Bullseyed: Fell In Love With a Chair: As someone completely farked over my crippling student loan debt, lemme tell you... well, I don't even know what to say. I'm going to tell you what it's like to live like this.

Total Fark subscription, no problem!
Internet connection, no problem!
Computer, no problem!
What? No I don't have money to pay my bills. Go away.

Jesus farking christ, I explained it upthread. I live with my ex-girlfriend as a couch surfer, I'm on her computer and internet connection. I SKIPPED EATING to buy TF so I could talk to mechanics in the TFD area about my farking piece of shiat car, you ass.


Umm...couch surfer?
 
2012-11-14 03:13:04 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: I gotta step out for a bit.

I love you all so much, and thank you for the support. I needed that. I needed that badly. It's good to remember we're NOT alone, and we know that we try hard no matter what they say. Thank you all for understanding and giving stellar advice, sharing stories, and just listening, because sometimes that's what people need.

Hopefully I can get back to a computer before the thread is up! If not- thank you, thank you, and again, thank you.


Ditto.
 
2012-11-14 04:30:12 PM  
This reminds me of the angry old codgers and naive housewives who demand all their money back from the Franklin Mint.
 
2012-11-14 07:41:13 PM  
i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-14 07:51:29 PM  
If you are willing to go thousands of dollars into debt for a useless degree than perhaps you got what you deserve.
 
2012-11-14 08:22:20 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: God, I'm rude as fark. Thank you so much for getting that info together for me, I'll be calling the Sac County health in the morning (what's the point in holding out for a non-contract job with insurance while my eyes literally need treatment NOW) and check out the career centre in the meanwhile. That was really sweet of you.


No worries mate. I sent you more info to your gmail account. Let me know if you don't receive it.
 
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