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(Washington Post)   Obama: Hey, GOP, remember how I told you I was going to raise taxes on the rich by $800 billion? Yeah, you remember that, right? Well, double it, biatches   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 349
    More: Hero, President Obama, GOP  
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8461 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Nov 2012 at 5:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-13 04:24:06 PM
It's $800 billion in new revenues, not just taxes on the rich, but... yeah. I can get behind this.
 
2012-11-13 04:31:49 PM
Hell yes. TAX them.
 
2012-11-13 04:32:53 PM
Yes, negotiate from a position of strength goddammit. Too many times he's started negotiations by asking whether they want a beej or a handy.
 
2012-11-13 04:33:24 PM
I'll believe it when I see it.
 
2012-11-13 04:41:13 PM
Good. Shove it down their throats.
 
2012-11-13 04:43:32 PM

SilentStrider: I'll believe it when I see it.


I would be glad to pay more in taxes in exchange for improved infrastructure and services so long as everyone came along with me, but I fear I'm in accord with you on this one. I'll believe it when I see it.
 
2012-11-13 04:43:59 PM
Translation: I actually really did want 800 billion, and still do, but I was a horseshiat negotiator. So, let's try this again.
 
2012-11-13 04:46:57 PM
Presidents want to stick me for my paper

daaamn.
 
2012-11-13 04:50:08 PM

Elandriel: Yes, negotiate from a position of strength goddammit. Too many times he's started negotiations by asking whether they want a beej or a handy.


Exactly. He probably wants half of what he's asking, but he has to allow room for the Republicans to declare victory. Basic negotiation. Its why he should have never taken single payer off the table as quick as he did. Had it been on the table, you'd still have Obamacare but the GOP would be bragging about it, not complaining about it.
 
2012-11-13 04:52:17 PM
This plan doesn't get the revenue from poor/old people. Republicans will never go for it.
 
2012-11-13 04:52:28 PM
I'd rather we went off the "cliff".

/the negotiations are all so the defense contractors/1%ers can keep the gravy train rolling.
 
2012-11-13 04:54:03 PM
About goddamn time he learns how to play this game.
 
2012-11-13 04:54:37 PM
I'm waiting for the middle class heroes to show up and tell us how they're screwed because of this. Forget the facts about all the tax deductions they get through home loans and children that actually given them a negative tax rate, it's ok, they're still doomed! Doomed, I tell ya!
 
2012-11-13 04:57:16 PM

unyon: Its why he should have never taken single payer off the table as quick as he did. Had it been on the table, you'd still have Obamacare but the GOP would be bragging about it, not complaining about it.


Single payer may still sneak in.
 
2012-11-13 04:59:43 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Translation: I actually really did want 800 billion, and still do, but I was a horseshiat negotiator. So, let's try this again.


Yup, that's my sense as well. Barter 101: Always ask for more than you want in order to give yourself some bargaining room. Dealing purely in good faith with Republicans these days is a mug's game as Obama should know damn well by now. He does seem to be getting better at this though.
 
2012-11-13 05:23:09 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: unyon: Its why he should have never taken single payer off the table as quick as he did. Had it been on the table, you'd still have Obamacare but the GOP would be bragging about it, not complaining about it.

Single payer may still sneak in.


Yeah, I know the GOP has a simple majority in the House, but it is still a simple majority. I can't see that passing. I'd love it, but I can't see it. Yet.
 
2012-11-13 05:41:31 PM

quatchi: Dealing purely in good faith with Republicans these days is a mug's game as Obama should know damn well by now


The Republicans were negotiating in bad faith, for sure, but even in a good faith negotiation you need to ask for more than you're willing to accept. That's just negotiating.

The Republicans may actually be negotiating in good faith now, since they probably want the 'fiscal cliff' scenario to play out as much or less than the Democrats.

Before the election, Republicans were going to reject any deal with Obama and the Democrats, because they figured whatever deal Obama was going to give them, they could get a better one from a Republican president (and it wouldn't be surprising to see them keep stalling in every area where there isn't a "cliff" on the horizon). If the country's credit rating suffered in the process, so be it. Their Tea Party base seemed aroused by intransigence and conflict with Obama, and they could always tie bad economic news back to Obama, which would make it an even surer bet that he'd be toast (just ask Dick Morris).
 
2012-11-13 05:43:19 PM
It matters little when you know, not one dime is going toward your benefit.
 
2012-11-13 05:55:17 PM

Revek: It matters little when you know, not one dime is going toward your benefit.


Well it's going to pay down the debt which then makes it less likely that our social security and medicare will be used to pay down the debt like Republicans want.
 
2012-11-13 05:55:24 PM
GOOD.
 
2012-11-13 05:55:47 PM
Do it and we'll talk, Obama. Big words should be followed by big actions.
 
2012-11-13 05:56:10 PM
We all know how this will end. The uber wealthy will cast off the terrible burden of being such captains of industry and job creators, and forsake any further activity, because less money is obviously so much worse than no money. Derpity herpity fart.
 
2012-11-13 05:57:11 PM
latenightdebates.files.wordpress.com
 "money aint got no owners ... only spenders"
 
2012-11-13 05:58:39 PM

themindiswatching: I'd rather we went off the "cliff".

/the negotiations are all so the defense contractors/1%ers can keep the gravy train rolling.


I find it funny how the Romney Ryan cuts were like 3 times as much as this and they were "Bold" and raised but this is "THE FISCAL CLIFF - OMG WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!"

It's bullshiat.
 
2012-11-13 05:59:15 PM

Corvus: praised

 
2012-11-13 05:59:51 PM
What will this do to the cost of a Papa Johns Pizza?
 
2012-11-13 06:01:01 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: What will this do to the cost of a Papa Johns Pizza?


Giving how the price of oil is going down, probably cheapen it.
 
2012-11-13 06:02:04 PM
www.globaltimes.cn
I'm just a job creator! This is class warfare! Why's everybody picking on meeeeeeeee?
 
2012-11-13 06:02:15 PM
1) Poll all members of the House Majority regarding the year America was at its zenith.
2) Set top marginal rate based on results of poll.
3) Profit! (err... Pay down the deficit.)
 
2012-11-13 06:03:22 PM

HST's Dead Carcass: I'm waiting for the middle class heroes to show up and tell us how they're screwed because of this. Forget the facts about all the tax deductions they get through home loans and children that actually given them a negative tax rate, it's ok, they're still doomed! Doomed, I tell ya!


They're sure they're gonna get trickled on any day now.
 
2012-11-13 06:04:26 PM
But, but, but, the wealth will stop trickling down!

/Warm, salty wealth, sprinkling down on us from on high.
//A veritable golden flow of prosperity.
 
2012-11-13 06:05:48 PM
Yep, give 'em room to talk you down to what you really want. That way, they can save (orange) face while still doing something right for a change.
 
2012-11-13 06:07:08 PM
To compensate, the rich will cut whatever benefits the poor workers at Target or Walmart have left. 47%? Old news. Try 57%.

Profit margins must be maintained increase!
 
2012-11-13 06:07:14 PM
This is a smart move. The only way that congress can save the flow of gov't money to the people restocking their war chests is to negotiate a tax increase on those same people. Obama capitulates to roughly half of his opening bid, congress has to play ball, and hopefully Grover Norquist is left out in the cold.
 
2012-11-13 06:07:16 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Before the election, Republicans were going to reject any deal with Obama and the Democrats, because they figured whatever deal Obama was going to give them, they could get a better one from a Republican president (and it wouldn't be surprising to see them keep stalling in every area where there isn't a "cliff" on the horizon). If the country's credit rating suffered in the process, so be it. Their Tea Party base seemed aroused by intransigence and conflict with Obama, and they could always tie bad economic news back to Obama, which would make it an even surer bet that he'd be toast (just ask Dick Morris).


Which is why I was so encouraged by this new poll. (pops)

If the U.S. government ends up careening off the "fiscal cliff," Republicans in Congress stand to shoulder most of the blame, according to a new poll released Tuesday.

A majority of Americans said in a new, post-election poll that they do not expect President Barack Obama and members of Congress to reach an agreement to avoid the effects of the fiscal cliff, the combination of automatic spending cuts and tax hikes set to take effect at the beginning of the year.

Fifty-three percent of Americans said Republicans in Congress would be more to blame in that instance, according to a Pew Research Center poll conducted in the days following the election. Twenty-nine percent said that Obama would be more to blame, while 10 percent said both the president and Republicans would share blame.


People are finally waking up!
 
2012-11-13 06:07:49 PM
Week 1 demand 1.6 trillion

(republicans jump up and down with rage)

Week 3 sorry now it's 1.95 trillion

(screams and filibusters)

Week 5 I've had another look and l think the number should be 2.2 ....
 
2012-11-13 06:08:36 PM
YES! Now that's how a Kenyan negotiates.
 
2012-11-13 06:08:44 PM

Revek: It matters little when you know, not one dime is going toward your benefit.


Are you sure?

I benefit from a healthy, well-educated society. I benefit from policies and programs that increase this nation's net value, such as infrastructure and fundamental research and a transition to domestically produced, renewable energy sources.

You know what I don't benefit from? Some guy stuffing $250,000,000 a year into his bank account instead of "only" $200,000,000. But he benefits more in the same ways I do, because his wealth is made possible by people like me, yet he pays a smaller proportion of his wealth in taxes than I do.

"Paying your fair share" is not about how much of the buy-a-pie fund you already contribute to, it's about how much of the pie you get. They get more pie than they pay for even if they paid more than anyone else, and that's not paying a fair share.
=Smidge=
 
2012-11-13 06:10:22 PM
It's a shakedown.

Brilliant.
 
2012-11-13 06:10:28 PM

quatchi: Barter 101: Always ask for more than you want in order to give yourself some bargaining room. Dealing purely in good faith with Republicans these days is a mug's game as Obama should know damn well by now. He does seem to be getting better at this though.


Aside from Snowe and Collins, Obama wasn't bargaining with the Republicans. The negotiations were almost always with conservative Democrats. Why do people not grasp this?

And why do people think negotiating is just like a video game where getting what you want is as simple as making your starting point twice as high? Nope. It's 60 different negotiations where the other side in each negotiation can unilaterally veto the whole deal and a good many of them are perfectly fine with nothing happening. Not to mention they all have fragile egos and will throw a fit if they over any perceived slight... like a completely unrealistic starting position.

Single payer was never on the table. It wasn't in the room. It wasn't in the building. It wasn't even in the same state. How do you negotiate away something you never had? I'd be surprised if more than a dozen Senators support it. But Obama is supposed to go in there and tell Joe Lieberman that he won't push a policy that has zero chance of passing in exchange for his vote. Seriously?
 
2012-11-13 06:11:11 PM
Seems like it would be an easier sell if instead of saying raising taxes on the rich, he said lifting the massive Bush tax cuts on the rich. I don't know why they keep insisiting on saying "raising taxes" when a big part of it is just letting the tax cuts expire as they were supposed to (at least on the higher incomes).
 
2012-11-13 06:12:12 PM

mjjt: Week 1 demand 1.6 trillion

(republicans jump up and down with rage)

Week 3 sorry now it's 1.95 trillion

(screams and filibusters)

Week 5 I've had another look and l think the number should be 2.2 ....


That was my suggestion. Do a reverse negotiation. When the GOP says, "Let's go back to what you offered two weeks ago." Obama should countered with, "I'm sorry, that was two weeks ago. Offer has expired."
 
2012-11-13 06:12:19 PM
Standard negotiating tactic. Ask for twice what you want, be happy when you get what you expected. The other side feels like they didn't get screwed since you settled for half of what you wanted.
 
2012-11-13 06:12:49 PM
Boehner should put an offer on the table to set the upper tax rate at 100% and see if Obama counters with 110%. Or maybe 100% and life in prison.
 
2012-11-13 06:13:25 PM
Yeah, Obama learned his lesson about opening with the actual compromise position on the assumption that the GOP has dealt with you in good faith in the preliminary meetings with Obamacare. He ain't doing that shiat again, expect to be hit with the maximum he could possibly want and negotiate it back to an actual reasonable position the hard way now.

Basically, the dude's tried playing nice. You wouldn't play with him. Welcome to politics 101, yo.
 
2012-11-13 06:13:25 PM
Fox Spews: deficits don't matter in 3...2...1
 
2012-11-13 06:14:02 PM

jjorsett: Boehner should put an offer on the table to set the upper tax rate at 100% and see if Obama counters with 110%. Or maybe 100% and life in prison.


What exactly is this even supposed to mean? Are you having a seizure?
 
2012-11-13 06:14:21 PM
Class warfare again? Oh great.
 
2012-11-13 06:14:52 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: jjorsett: Boehner should put an offer on the table to set the upper tax rate at 100% and see if Obama counters with 110%. Or maybe 100% and life in prison.

What exactly is this even supposed to mean? Are you having a seizure?


Obama wants all the money, so Boehner should say he wants all the taxes. Or something.
 
2012-11-13 06:15:31 PM

mjjt: Week 1 demand 1.6 trillion

(republicans jump up and down with rage)

Week 3 sorry now it's 1.95 trillion

(screams and filibusters)

Week 5 I've had another look and l think the number should be 2.2 ....


Right. If it's the Democrats we've all come to know and love, it will be more like this...

Week 1 demand 1.6 trillion

(republicans jump up and down with rage)

Week 3 sorry now it's 800 billion

(screams and filibusters)

Week 5 I've had another look and l think the number should be 400 billion....and we're going to let you take it from orphans, the unemployed, and minimum wage workers

Republicans: We have a compromise!!
 
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