If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(NYPost)   Because of the election ObamaCare will remain the law of the land so the New York Post lists what good might come of it. Just kidding, you're going to die and go broke on January 1, 2014. And death panels. Suck it America   (nypost.com) divider line 117
    More: Stupid, New York Post, obamacare, Betsy McCaughey, McKinsey, Aetna, law of the land  
•       •       •

1949 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Nov 2012 at 7:50 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



117 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-11-13 04:41:49 PM
I've never understood the "Death Panels" thing.

What do they think the insurance companies do? Valiantly struggle to save everyone no matter how much it hits their bottom line?
 
2012-11-13 04:58:10 PM
My favorite thing about articles like this is how they complain and complain about "government health plans" and then complain and complain about "cuts" to socialized health insurance Medicare.
 
2012-11-13 05:04:02 PM
if there really are death panels, can we start with Rupert Murdoch?
 
2012-11-13 05:13:34 PM
I'm a conservative. I work in the health care/health insurance industry in Washington - death panels are the least of my worries.

Here are the concerns

1. Premiums are going to go up for those who currently have insurance. There are dozens of reasons for this, but the bottom line is that without your care getting one iota better, your premiums are going up.

2. Medicare is in real trouble because it's about to be competing with "Obamacare" - You weren't told this because Republicans and Democrats agree on it - Medicare cuts have to be made and means testing has to be in place. Paul Ryan's plan is farking awesome for seniors compared to what's about to happen to them and neither party cares to intervene.

3. 45 million americans who didn't have insurance for whatever reason will now be means tested and required to either get insurance or pay a fine. Filing your taxes, or failing to now becomes a major deal. Show up to the emergency room without proof of insurance - they're calling the IRS to find out your voucher status.

4. Insurance companies went from having three quarters of the population paying them to 100 percent. Huge win for the supposed "bad guys."

5. Exchanges are going to be very hard to understand and super expensive and your employer is going to dump you onto your state's exchange right after making you a part time employee. You see, you can avoid all penalties by not having any full-time workers.

6. The benefits perk of health insurance in this country will disappear. Your employer will save millions not insuring you. You will be forced to learn a lot about health insurance very quickly.

7. Your taxes are going to become a little more complicated adn your preparer is going to charge more.

8. Young people will see their premiums double in 2014 to subsidize the older crowd. It's called "age rating" or "age bands" and it's something you become very familiar with.

9. Non-profit insurance companies who don't have over-paid CEOs like most of the Blue Cross plans are put at a disadvantage. The money grubbing for-profit insurance companies are going to make even more money and spend less on claims. The law was written to fark over the non-profit good guys.


It's a bad bill - you've just never been told exactly why. And guess what - they're still writing the regs at HHS, so we're still finding out what's in it.
 
2012-11-13 05:15:52 PM

bradkanus: Paul Ryan's plan is farking awesome


lulz
 
2012-11-13 05:16:29 PM
If I can arrange to die and then go broke, I would certainly prefer that over going broke and then dying. In fact, I don't think I'd mind at all if I went broke after I died. Sure, there'd be the social stigma of having gone broke, but to be honest, I don't think I'll be getting out too much at that point anyway.
 
2012-11-13 05:40:14 PM
When the log rolls over, we'll all be dead.
 
2012-11-13 06:03:17 PM

unlikely: I've never understood the "Death Panels" thing.

What do they think the insurance companies do? Valiantly struggle to save everyone no matter how much it hits their bottom line?


Forget the insurance companies! You can't get on the organ donors list if you're over 55. I had a parent that could have had another 30-35 years with a heart transplant. Did she get one? Nope. Too old. A few years later I can understand the cold hard math. Give it to a 25 year old and you get more bag for you buck as it were. But at the time I was a little pissed.

Wake up sheeple! There are already death panels.
 
2012-11-13 06:09:30 PM

bradkanus: I'm a conservative. I work in the health care/health insurance industry in Washington - death panels are the least of my worries.


Damn that's some recycled debunked derp.
 
2012-11-13 06:16:15 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: unlikely: I've never understood the "Death Panels" thing.

What do they think the insurance companies do? Valiantly struggle to save everyone no matter how much it hits their bottom line?

Forget the insurance companies! You can't get on the organ donors list if you're over 55. I had a parent that could have had another 30-35 years with a heart transplant. Did she get one? Nope. Too old. A few years later I can understand the cold hard math. Give it to a 25 year old and you get more bag for you buck as it were. But at the time I was a little pissed.

Wake up sheeple! There are already death panels.


Good insight, but I'm sorry to hear about your mom. :-(
 
2012-11-13 06:33:27 PM

CommieTaoist: bradkanus: I'm a conservative. I work in the health care/health insurance industry in Washington - death panels are the least of my worries.

Damn that's some recycled debunked derp.


Everything he listed has been debunked? Serious question. Because if not, that seems pretty shiaty.
 
2012-11-13 06:34:56 PM
bradkanus:

<snip> DERP</snip>

And here's why I have grown to love the "favorite" button:

www.majhost.com
 
2012-11-13 06:40:44 PM

Silly Jesus: Everything he listed has been debunked? Serious question. Because if not, that seems pretty shiaty.


I was going to do a point-by-point debunking but figured it wasn't worth it as anyone with half a brain can see that those are taken right from a talking points memo.

/you know what seems pretty shiaty? your St. Jude's thread
 
2012-11-13 06:42:02 PM

bradkanus: 3. 45 million americans who didn't have insurance for whatever reason will now be means tested and required to either get insurance or pay a fine. Filing your taxes, or failing to now becomes a major deal. Show up to the emergency room without proof of insurance - they're calling the IRS to find out your voucher status.


As if not paying taxes wasn't already a big deal? And, just to be clear, if you show up at an emergency room, they're not going to call anyone, they're going to bill the government for providing unavoidable services just like they currently do, but the fine you pay on your taxes will help offset your unexpected emergency room costs to the system.

So many more problems . . . don't feel like skipping dinner to respond more . . .
 
2012-11-13 06:47:14 PM

CommieTaoist: Silly Jesus: Everything he listed has been debunked? Serious question. Because if not, that seems pretty shiaty.

I was going to do a point-by-point debunking but figured it wasn't worth it as anyone with half a brain can see that those are taken right from a talking points memo.

/you know what seems pretty shiaty? your St. Jude's thread


Wait. What did I miss here?
 
2012-11-13 06:48:32 PM

CommieTaoist: Silly Jesus: Everything he listed has been debunked? Serious question. Because if not, that seems pretty shiaty.

I was going to do a point-by-point debunking but figured it wasn't worth it as anyone with half a brain can see that those are taken right from a talking points memo.

/you know what seems pretty shiaty? your St. Jude's thread


Why? It raised lots of money (at least $1000) and I'm slowly but surely making good on my promise to donate my share. Why do you hate giving money to cancer children?
 
2012-11-13 06:49:27 PM

BronyMedic: CommieTaoist: Silly Jesus: Everything he listed has been debunked? Serious question. Because if not, that seems pretty shiaty.

I was going to do a point-by-point debunking but figured it wasn't worth it as anyone with half a brain can see that those are taken right from a talking points memo.

/you know what seems pretty shiaty? your St. Jude's thread

Wait. What did I miss here?


I raised a few grand for charity and people are continuing to give me shiat about it.
 
2012-11-13 07:01:11 PM

CommieTaoist: Silly Jesus: Everything he listed has been debunked? Serious question. Because if not, that seems pretty shiaty.

I was going to do a point-by-point debunking but figured it wasn't worth it as anyone with half a brain can see that those are taken right from a talking points memo.

/you know what seems pretty shiaty? your St. Jude's thread


You need to do a point by point refutation. Don't assume everyone has the same knowledge.

Fight ingnorance with facts.
 
2012-11-13 07:08:46 PM

CommieTaoist: Silly Jesus: Everything he listed has been debunked? Serious question. Because if not, that seems pretty shiaty.

I was going to do a point-by-point debunking but figured it wasn't worth it as anyone with half a brain can see that those are taken right from a talking points memo.


I'm a Republican and haven't paid that much attention to healthcare, and even I recognize some of those bullet points are pure BS.
 
2012-11-13 07:24:13 PM

Darth_Lukecash: CommieTaoist: Silly Jesus: Everything he listed has been debunked? Serious question. Because if not, that seems pretty shiaty.

I was going to do a point-by-point debunking but figured it wasn't worth it as anyone with half a brain can see that those are taken right from a talking points memo.

/you know what seems pretty shiaty? your St. Jude's thread

You need to do a point by point refutation. Don't assume everyone has the same knowledge.

Fight ingnorance with facts.


Here is one of the original "what the ACA really does" links. There is really no need for a point by point refutation of idiocy.
 
2012-11-13 07:43:58 PM

unlikely: What do they think the insurance companies do? Valiantly struggle to save everyone no matter how much it hits their bottom line?


when companies do it, its freedom.
when government does it, its communism.
 
2012-11-13 07:56:39 PM
Fark you, Betsy. We could have implemented a system just like the rest of the civilized world, but your people threw a shiat-fit. So instead we get this - better than what we had, but not great. But that's on you.
 
2012-11-13 07:57:17 PM
Seriously, did this img0.fark.net not send up a red flag to readers that this article is nothing but recycled right-wing talking points.
 
2012-11-13 07:57:22 PM

unlikely: I've never understood the "Death Panels" thing.

What do they think the insurance companies do? Valiantly struggle to save everyone no matter how much it hits their bottom line?


I like how your username answers your question.
 
2012-11-13 07:58:36 PM
i.chzbgr.com
 
2012-11-13 07:59:19 PM
I like that all of her nightmare scenarios are why I supported the reform.
 
2012-11-13 07:59:54 PM

bradkanus: Paul Ryan's plan is farking awesome for seniors compared to what's about to happen to them and neither party cares to intervene.


It's good for seniors today because it just protects the status quo. For seniors down the road though, it would've been a downgrade from the Medicare that's out there today and you would be a fool to try to convince people otherwise.
 
2012-11-13 08:05:57 PM
What's this Obamacare thing all aboot, eh?
 
2012-11-13 08:07:45 PM

bradkanus: Paul Ryan's plan is farking awesome for seniors compared to what's about to happen to them


HAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA, oh wow. That's rich.
 
2012-11-13 08:08:09 PM

bradkanus: I'm a conservative. I work in the health care/health insurance industry in Washington - so I'm really getting a kick out of some of these replies.

 
2012-11-13 08:09:30 PM
 
2012-11-13 08:09:41 PM

bradkanus: I'm a conservative. I work in the health care/health insurance industry in Washington - death panels are the least of my worries.

Here are the concerns

1. Premiums are going to go up for those who currently have insurance. There are dozens of reasons for this, but the bottom line is that without your care getting one iota better, your premiums are going up. Almost complete bullshiat. Your premiums were going up anyway, the law will have almost no effect. Which, ironically, is part of the problem: it was supposed to help hold premiums in check, but it doesn't do that very well.

2. Medicare is in real trouble because it's about to be competing with "Obamacare" - You weren't told this because Republicans and Democrats agree on it - Medicare cuts have to be made and means testing has to be in place. Paul Ryan's plan is farking awesome for seniors compared to what's about to happen to them and neither party cares to intervene. 100% bullshiat. Medicare will not compete directly with any portion of Obamacare any more than it already competes with the private plans that will still be the norm

3. 45 million americans who didn't have insurance for whatever reason will now be means tested and required to either get insurance or pay a fine. Filing your taxes, or failing to now becomes a major deal. Show up to the emergency room without proof of insurance - they're calling the IRS to find out your voucher status. 95% bullshiat. A small number of Americans without insurance - primarily the very wealthy - will get soaked on the tax because they could previously afford to simply pay out of pocket for expenses. You could argue that young, healthy people are getting soaked, but that gleefully ignores the fact that they will eventually benefit from the law as they age and their health inevitably declines.

4. Insurance companies went from having three quarters of the population paying them to 100 percent. Huge win for the supposed "bad guys." 100% bullshiat. Without this factor the law would be completely unworkable because insurance companies would be unable to take on the high risk individuals who need insurance which the law is partly designed to help

5. Exchanges are going to be very hard to understand and super expensive and your employer is going to dump you onto your state's exchange right after making you a part time employee. You see, you can avoid all penalties by not having any full-time workers. 100% bullshiat. There is absolutely no evidence any of this is true. Nevada, for example, is already testing numerous parts of the law with its exchanges plan and has altered several of the rules already as they proved less than workable in their default form. The Nevada plan is simple, streamlined, and appears to be self-sustaining without taxpayer assistance.

6. The benefits perk of health insurance in this country will disappear. Your employer will save millions not insuring you. You will be forced to learn a lot about health insurance very quickly. 100% bullshiat. In most cases people's employer's will save the most simply because they're the ones, by far, paying the most

7. Your taxes are going to become a little more complicated adn your preparer is going to charge more. 100% bullshiat. The tax is simple and straightforward. You either have coverage or you don't.

8. Young people will see their premiums double in 2014 to subsidize the older crowd. It's called "age rating" or "age bands" and it's something you become very familiar with. It's called "getting older". The reason age banding is such a burden on older people is that there are few young people supporting the system, yet those same young people will eventually be old people. Everyone will eventually need coverage, everyone should pay.

9. Non-profit insurance companies who don't have over-paid CEOs like most of the Blue Cross plans are put at a disadvantage. The money grubbing for-profit insurance companies are going to make even more money and spend less on claims. The law was written to fark over the non-profit good guys. 100% bullshiat. There isn't even really any response to this because you completely made it up. It's just a flat-out lie.


So do you actually work insurance and you're just terribly dishonest, or do you only pretend to work in the industry?

There are plenty of problems with the law. None of what you brought up are any of them. So I've farkied you appropriately so I know that you're a bald-faced liar going forward.
 
2012-11-13 08:13:58 PM
So, lessee.

My employer decides not to carry insurance because he can't afford it.
But I can go to a private company.
The private companies are being deluged by other people like me, so they have incentive to offer competitive prices.
Prices go down at private companies.
So it doesn't matter that my employer doesn't have company insurance, because I can shop for the best deal.

THAT is how the free market is supposed to work, ladies and gentlemen. The reason people need "employer insurance" is because there are so few private carriers, and so few people shopping for insurance, they can jack their rates and make you pay what they want, at the same time offering lower rates (with suffocating restrictions) to employers. Abandon employer deals so everyone has to shop private companies--and people will go where there are the best rates and the fewest restrictions. Like car insurance. Or even dental insurance, which you can still get privately without HMOs.

If I could get decent prescription coverage and mental health care without paying $700/mo...I'd go there. That's all I really need. And when I can get it, that's the company that will get my business. People who need heart specialists will get that kind of insurance, and people who need family coverage will get family packages. If insurance carriers are smart, they'll have people putting together specialty packages right now, tailored for all the employees who are going to be deal shopping in a year or so. "I need coverage for a family of four, I have high cholesterol, my wife needs birth control and my daughter is going to need braces in a year or so. And I only have about $500 a month to spare." "I think we can help you, sir." You betcha.
 
2012-11-13 08:14:37 PM

bradkanus: I'm a conservative. I work in the health care/health insurance industry in Washington - death panels are the least of my worries.

Here are the concerns


I just want to say, at least bradkanus actually listed reasons. You folks saying "derp" might think they're lame reasons, but at least it's a start to a reasonable discussion.
 
2012-11-13 08:15:53 PM
Last month, my grandfather - who is 92 years old - was told by his physician the following (paraphrased):

"The risk of getting another bypass done is not worth it for a man your age. The dangers of the surgery are simply not worth any benefit you might get from it. Stop worrying about it; you're in pretty good health for a man your age. You've led a good life. Be thankful for the life you've had so far, and enjoy what you have left."

My aunt swears up and down that this is the perfect example of Obamacare's death panels. "It has already started," she told me.
 
2012-11-13 08:19:04 PM

StopLurkListen: I just want to say, at least bradkanus actually listed reasons. You folks saying "derp" might think they're lame reasons, but at least it's a start to a reasonable discussion.


I'm a liberal. I work at an engineering firm in New York -- terrorism is the least of my worries.

Here are the concerns about the government's story regarding 9/11...
 
2012-11-13 08:20:50 PM
Because I'm a masochist . . .

bradkanus: 1. Premiums are going to go up for those who currently have insurance. There are dozens of reasons for this, but the bottom line is that without your care getting one iota better, your premiums are going up.


Premiums will go up for some. For others they will go down. If you credentials are legit, then you know what community rating is and are ignoring it because of your ideology.

For care to get better, systems need to implement pay-for-performance rather than the US typical fee-for-service model.

2. Medicare is in real trouble because it's about to be competing with "Obamacare" - You weren't told this because Republicans and Democrats agree on it - Medicare cuts have to be made and means testing has to be in place. Paul Ryan's plan is farking awesome for seniors compared to what's about to happen to them and neither party cares to intervene.

This is so wrong I don't know where to begin. Paul Ryan's plan is Obamacare for seniors. Except that seniors have no chance in the private market because they are considerably more expensive to care for than those under 55. The Ryan plan, with only slight hyperbole, throws seniors to the insurance sector wolves.

Medicare - a genuine single-payer system - restrains cost growth better than the private market because the government has a monopsony. But the reason Medicare's costs are growing so much is due to it existing as only a small piece of a mostly private US healthcare sector that values profit over care.

3. 45 million americans who didn't have insurance for whatever reason will now be means tested and required to either get insurance or pay a fine. Filing your taxes, or failing to now becomes a major deal. Show up to the emergency room without proof of insurance - they're calling the IRS to find out your voucher status.

Oh noes! Free loaders will be hit with a small and fairly easily avoided tax penalty! The sky is falling! And ERs can't turn away critical cases now; Obamacare has nothing to do with that.

4. Insurance companies went from having three quarters of the population paying them to 100 percent. Huge win for the supposed "bad guys."

This is the shiatty part of Obamacare - we have to buy our coverage from entities that exist to make a profit for their shareholders. The insurance mandate, though, is the lynchpin that holds Obamacare together. Without it, the insurance industry will implode. I, as a liberal, would shed no tears over this outcome but it would really overturn a major applecart in the economy.

5. Exchanges are going to be very hard to understand and super expensive and your employer is going to dump you onto your state's exchange right after making you a part time employee. You see, you can avoid all penalties by not having any full-time workers.

6. The benefits perk of health insurance in this country will disappear. Your employer will save millions not insuring you. You will be forced to learn a lot about health insurance very quickly.


You're chastising Obama for employers' foisting their (historical) responsibilities onto employees or the state? Are you aware the Medicaid is a huge implicit subsidy to Walmart because the company compensates its employees so poorly that the government has to pick up the healthcare tab.

Yep, you're one of those "personal responsibility is only for the little people" conservatives.

7. Your taxes are going to become a little more complicated adn your preparer is going to charge more.

What, 2 lines a 1040? OH NOES AGAIN.

8. Young people will see their premiums double in 2014 to subsidize the older crowd. It's called "age rating" or "age bands" and it's something you become very familiar with.

I'm skeptical that they'll double. Regardless, that's the price of living in society.

9. Non-profit insurance companies who don't have over-paid CEOs like most of the Blue Cross plans are put at a disadvantage. The money grubbing for-profit insurance companies are going to make even more money and spend less on claims. The law was written to fark over the non-profit good guys.

Obamacare includes regs that require insurers to spend a minimum of 80% of premiums on care.
 
2012-11-13 08:22:40 PM

mgshamster: Last month, my grandfather - who is 92 years old - was told by his physician the following (paraphrased):

"The risk of getting another bypass done is not worth it for a man your age. The dangers of the surgery are simply not worth any benefit you might get from it. Stop worrying about it; you're in pretty good health for a man your age. You've led a good life. Be thankful for the life you've had so far, and enjoy what you have left."

My aunt swears up and down that this is the perfect example of Obamacare's death panels. "It has already started," she told me.


My grandmother would be probably be alive right now if not for surgery related to non-life threatening issues.

I wish she had that doctor.
 
2012-11-13 08:23:14 PM

StopLurkListen: bradkanus: I'm a conservative. I work in the health care/health insurance industry in Washington - death panels are the least of my worries.

Here are the concerns

I just want to say, at least bradkanus actually listed reasons. You folks saying "derp" might think they're lame reasons, but at least it's a start to a reasonable discussion.


"Reasonable" discussions do not start out with obvious falsehoods.

/At least that's what your wife told me last night when I finished getting her to that fourth orgasm
//see?
 
2012-11-13 08:25:28 PM

unlikely: I've never understood the "Death Panels" thing.

What do they think the insurance companies do? Valiantly struggle to save everyone no matter how much it hits their bottom line?


Shhhhhhhhhhh! You'll wake the Neo-cons up from the American dream.
 
2012-11-13 08:26:58 PM
I heard from a nurse that hospitals' government reimbursements are going to be subject to patient satisfaction surveys. The heads of the hospital she works at have been telling them this.

I thought it was based on objective outcomes, not subjective surveys.

What's accurate?
 
2012-11-13 08:27:11 PM
You're filthy rich, Mister Murdoch. Can't you just buy more chickens to f*ck instead of doing the same one over and over?
 
2012-11-13 08:27:38 PM

bradkanus: I'm a conservative. I work in the health care/health insurance industry in Washington - death panels are the least of my worries.

Here are the concerns

1. Premiums are going to go up for those who currently have insurance. There are dozens of reasons for this, but the bottom line is that without your care getting one iota better, your premiums are going up.

2. Medicare is in real trouble because it's about to be competing with "Obamacare" - You weren't told this because Republicans and Democrats agree on it - Medicare cuts have to be made and means testing has to be in place. Paul Ryan's plan is farking awesome for seniors compared to what's about to happen to them and neither party cares to intervene.

3. 45 million americans who didn't have insurance for whatever reason will now be means tested and required to either get insurance or pay a fine. Filing your taxes, or failing to now becomes a major deal. Show up to the emergency room without proof of insurance - they're calling the IRS to find out your voucher status.

4. Insurance companies went from having three quarters of the population paying them to 100 percent. Huge win for the supposed "bad guys."

5. Exchanges are going to be very hard to understand and super expensive and your employer is going to dump you onto your state's exchange right after making you a part time employee. You see, you can avoid all penalties by not having any full-time workers.

6. The benefits perk of health insurance in this country will disappear. Your employer will save millions not insuring you. You will be forced to learn a lot about health insurance very quickly.

7. Your taxes are going to become a little more complicated adn your preparer is going to charge more.

8. Young people will see their premiums double in 2014 to subsidize the older crowd. It's called "age rating" or "age bands" and it's something you become very familiar with.

9. Non-profit insurance companies who don't have over-paid CEOs lik ...


I'm not trying to argue.....and I'll be the first to say who knows where this is all going to land? I do want to speak about your points.
(for the record, I also work in insurance, and especially personal insurance)

1) Premiums will go UP FOR SOME, and DOWN FOR OTHERS. And not just 'up' and 'down' but wildly up and down. If you're a 30 year old woman with a couple ridered or rated conditions like asthma or whatever, your premiums will go down. If you're a completely healthy 21 year old male, your premiums will go up (at least at the start of this all, more on that later).

2) Medicare is being expanded by this. 133% of the poverty level, you're now eligible for Medicare. This plan is paying for more Medicare, not taking anything away. This is also (via taxes and the various fees in place - for one, drug companies have to pony up billions over the next 10 years) going to help pay for Medicare.

3) There are in fact various exemptions to the law - and these are a little troublesome (and that's part of what I will get into later!) - American Indians, people with really low income, and the so-far kinda fuzzy "religious exemption". The emergency care law that Reagan put in - that hospitals HAVE to treat true emergencies - is not going ANYWHERE.

4&9) This is not a 'win' for the insurance companies at all, especially the money grubbing ones. You may have noticed in your state former huge insurance companies shutting down. This is because of the 80/20 law - at least 80% of all money brought in via premiums must go right out the door to claims. Some insurance companies were really wretched, as it turns out, and were running scams like 60/40 or 70/30. None of these, as far as I know, were the big Blue Cross/Blue Shields who already keep that ratio pretty high on the payout end to keep the BCBS brand.

5) The exchanges are...difficult to see, Yoda would say. They are there to help people who need to buy insurance (and help small groups of less than 25 employees). Having an employee eligible for an exchange is REALLY gonna penalize large groups, so I don't know what will happen there. This is the only one of bradkanus' points I may concede but the truth is no one knows exactly how these will play out. One thing the federal government has already done is reduced the number of hours it would take for you to count as a 'full time' employee - it is sure not 40 or even 35 anymore.

6) Most employer plans already compare to the metal tiers (bronze, silver, gold, platinum) the government has set up for basic care. For a lot of large groups, who already don't have things like pre-existing conditions (or even exclusion periods) this may not matter at all to them, except the employees premiums might be raised (or lowered! who knows!), see #1.

7) I believe W2s will be slightly more complicated for employers (perhaps one or two more boxes) and the difference in what the preparer will charge...well, no one can say with any certainty but I think if you have the correct insurance so you don't get penalized, it will only be a checkmark or two.

8) The 3 to 1 vs 5 to 1 age bands...this MAY increase some people's insurance while lowering others' cost. (more on the mandate later)

Here's the big thing no one knows- the mandate. The more healthy people that are crammed into the pools, the more everyone's premiums will go down. Countries like Switzerland - which have, like the U.S. under Obamacare, private insurers AND a mandate - have far smaller premiums with far smaller increases in premium year to year in relation to the cost of living increases. The mandate, with the taxes and the exceptions (including, get this, you only need to have insurance 75% of the year to not get penalized) is so far kinda weak. If there's one thing you asked all the big insurers "What would you put in Obamacare to make it easier for you?" they would all say "An iron grip mandate on the populace". Not because they want to make tons of money but because they want the risks offset...for instance, in the currently world, on your group insurance with maternity care, about 50 normal babies must be born for the insurance company to pay the average extra claims caused by a premature birth.
 
2012-11-13 08:27:43 PM

YoungSwedishBlonde: StopLurkListen: I just want to say, at least bradkanus actually listed reasons. You folks saying "derp" might think they're lame reasons, but at least it's a start to a reasonable discussion.

I'm a liberal. I work at an engineering firm in New York -- terrorism is the least of my worries.

Here are the concerns about the government's story regarding 9/11...


I'm just saying engaging in discussion with someone who is upfront about their opposition and their reasons is a lot better than nonsequitors and ad-hominem. This person disagrees with you. So don't expect him (her?) to frame his view on the subject in the same way, either. Show how the assumptions are incorrect. Talk.

Or just post silly image macros. I'm good with those too.
 
2012-11-13 08:29:17 PM

crab66: mgshamster: Last month, my grandfather - who is 92 years old - was told by his physician the following (paraphrased):

"The risk of getting another bypass done is not worth it for a man your age. The dangers of the surgery are simply not worth any benefit you might get from it. Stop worrying about it; you're in pretty good health for a man your age. You've led a good life. Be thankful for the life you've had so far, and enjoy what you have left."

My aunt swears up and down that this is the perfect example of Obamacare's death panels. "It has already started," she told me.

My grandmother would be probably be alive right now if not for surgery related to non-life threatening issues.

I wish she had that doctor.


My aunt is a derpy Tea Party member who thinks Obamacare is going to destroy health care in America. Oh, and she's a nurse with over 30 years of experience in every setting except NICU. However, not only does she NOT freak out about supposed "death panels" but she very much thinks we NEED them. She's seen so many old folks die from elective surgery to improve quality of life (85 year olds getting knee replacement surgery, for example), or have folks who had elective surgery 6 months ago up and die from something else (like old age) that she's become very bitter about modern medicine. She thinks we waste so much time and money on really old people, and that our costs would be lower for everyone else if we didn't spend $32,145 on Aunt Marge's third knee replacement.
 
2012-11-13 08:33:17 PM
To save money, I'm cancelling my subscription to the NY Post, which, because of ObamaCare, will soon cost $2000 per copy since doctors' offices won't be able to afford it for the waiting room.
 
2012-11-13 08:37:08 PM

Mrtraveler01: bradkanus: Paul Ryan's plan is farking awesome for seniors compared to what's about to happen to them and neither party cares to intervene.

It's good for seniors today because it just protects the status quo. For seniors down the road though, it would've been a downgrade from the Medicare that's out there today and you would be a fool to try to convince people otherwise.


And if Ryan's plan is so awesome why does it exempt current seniors? If I were one of those I'd be pissed I was missing out on this great deal.
 
2012-11-13 08:37:16 PM
I just got a pamphlet in the mail addressed to me specifically about buying supplemental Medicare life insurance. The opening line reads: "Dear Ms. Cadaver, You're about to reach a milestone.... your 65th birthday!"

Should I be concerned?

/33
//I think...
 
2012-11-13 08:38:40 PM

TofuTheAlmighty: For others they will go down


I don't know about being a masochist but I think you might be a wide-eyed optimist. I'm not in sales or underwriting, most of what I see is the raw data on the backend. Time will tell, but I seriously doubt that premiums, on average, will go down based on the current law. I think it will for some people, but not for the reasons you imply. I think it will go down for some because they'll move to pooled self-insurance and stop loss.

TofuTheAlmighty: Free loaders will be hit with a small and fairly easily avoided tax penalty!


To be fair to a guy who doesn't deserve it, the independently wealthy will get hosed by this law. Granted, the penalty is small, but they still get the short end of the stick.

TofuTheAlmighty: I'm skeptical that they'll double. Regardless, that's the price of living in society.


They won't double, but they are going up and now they'll virtually be mandatory. Obamacare will, initially, raise most people's premiums at least slightly. However, the reality is the vast majority of the increases will be in the form of the standard increases we've seen the last decade anyway and the benefits that come along with the law are definitely worth it.

Expect people like bradkanus, however, to latch onto to 30% premium increases and claim the whole thing was Obamacare when, in reality, the group was getting a 28.5% increase regardless and, in reality, only that extra 1.5% was related to the new law. Mostly in the form of the small increases younger employees will incur as they come onto group plans.

The whining about Obamacare is beyond absurd. And the best part is many of these are the same people who had no problem with Medicare Part D despite the enormous cost and questionable benefit. 

StopLurkListen: nonsequitors


Except most of his "points" are nonsequitors. For the most part nothing he said appears to be accurate. I don't see how posting a huge string of lies in the form of reformulated talking points really qualifies as engaging in any kind of discussion.

Honestly, he comes off as a broker - one of the largely useless middlemen who adds to costs without adding value - in the industry who is about to lose his job.
 
2012-11-13 08:40:45 PM

bradkanus: Here are the concerns

1. Premiums are going to go up for those who currently have insurance. There are dozens of reasons for this, but the bottom line is that without your care getting one iota better, your premiums are going up.


Damn you Obamacare! My premiums would have stayed the same, just like they have for the past fifteen years!

bradkanus: 2. Medicare is in real trouble because it's about to be competing with "Obamacare" - You weren't told this because Republicans and Democrats agree on it - Medicare cuts have to be made and means testing has to be in place. Paul Ryan's plan is farking awesome for seniors compared to what's about to happen to them and neither party cares to intervene.


And that was part of the point of Obamacare - get the people on Medicare on better insurance, because the other option (making Medicare better) just wasn't going to happen. Point is, whether on Medicare or on an Obamacare plan, the people will be able to have access to health care.

bradkanus: 3. 45 million americans who didn't have insurance for whatever reason will now be means tested and required to either get insurance or pay a fine. Filing your taxes, or failing to now becomes a major deal. Show up to the emergency room without proof of insurance - they're calling the IRS to find out your voucher status.


This is the part of the plan I don't like. However, it's the only way to make this kind of system work. What we have been doing is just not providing treatment to sick people who need it. The best alternative, the one most other countries do just fine with, is simple universal single-payer, but the Republicans just weren't going to let that happen. This is what we have. deal with it. And you're just as unintelligent as the author of that excrement article if you think the ER's going to have the IRS on speed dial. Universal coverage means you'll be seen first instead of having to fill out forms while coughing up blood.

bradkanus: 4. Insurance companies went from having three quarters of the population paying them to 100 percent. Huge win for the supposed "bad guys."


And the huge loss is the fact that 80% of their funds now have to go towards actually providing health care, rather than overhead and/or profit. If it doesn't, then they send you a partial refund of your premiums, regardless of how much health care you "used" as compared to others.

bradkanus: 5. Exchanges are going to be very hard to understand and super expensive and your employer is going to dump you onto your state's exchange right after making you a part time employee. You see, you can avoid all penalties by not having any full-time workers.


Sure, you can avoid health insurance penalties. But do you want to pay extra workman's comp insurance for the additional employees? Do you want the additional hiring costs, and payroll overhead? Can you reliably run your business without a set of core employees that put in at least 8 hours, 5 days a week?

bradkanus: 6. The benefits perk of health insurance in this country will disappear. Your employer will save millions not insuring you. You will be forced to learn a lot about health insurance very quickly.


Did you ever wonder how Japan could produce a car in the 80's and 90's that, even after import taxes, cost less than the same American-made car?

bradkanus: 7. Your taxes are going to become a little more complicated adn your preparer is going to charge more.


No, I think Mom will still just get me to install the newest version of a virus scanner and have dinner with her like a good son.

bradkanus: 8. Young people will see their premiums double in 2014 to subsidize the older crowd. It's called "age rating" or "age bands" and it's something you become very familiar with.


That's a given. But at the same time, younger people won't start spending a whole lot more as they get older, either.

bradkanus: 9. Non-profit insurance companies who don't have over-paid CEOs like most of the Blue Cross plans are put at a disadvantage. The money grubbing for-profit insurance companies are going to make even more money and spend less on claims. The law was written to fark over the non-profit good guys.


I'm not sure where you get this information. Both are limited in what can be spent on overhead AND profit put together. If the non-profit limits itself to only overhead, and has a much lower-paid CEO, then their premiums would be lower. Simple math.

bradkanus: It's a bad bill - you've just never been told exactly why. And guess what - they're still writing the regs at HHS, so we're still finding out what's in it.


Anything short of single payer is a bad bill in my opinion. However, this kind of hyperbole, especially considering the inaccuracies in your statements, isn't helping. If you stick to legitimate criticism, you'll sound less like Fox news blowhards.
 
Displayed 50 of 117 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report