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(io9)   What happens to women denied abortions? This is the first scientific study to find out   (io9.com) divider line 461
    More: Interesting, American Public Health Association, idea, mental health disorders, uc san francisco, longitudinal study, medical procedures  
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6692 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Nov 2012 at 3:34 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-13 12:40:16 PM  
That's OK, if we follow through on the Republican Party's plan we'll take public assistance away from those whores who have children they can't afford and if they're in an abusive relationship, well they should just leave...
 
2012-11-13 12:43:28 PM  

Voiceofreason01: That's OK, if we follow through on the Republican Party's plan we'll take public assistance away from those whores who have children they can't afford and if they're in an abusive relationship, well they should just leave...


Clearly!
 
2012-11-13 01:06:48 PM  
Interesting article, subby. Thanks.
 
2012-11-13 01:22:09 PM  
Wow. So there were basically zero negative effects from abortions, a positive effect on public expenditures, and women who were allowed to abort were in better financial, emotional, and relationship situations?

Quelle surprise.


So, given this fact, and given the fact that another recent study found that free access to birth control dramatically reduces abortions, it would seem that two actions which would overall cause an extraordinary positive effect to society in general would be to provide open access to abortion AND free birth control to any woman who desires it.

I wonder who would be opposed to significant, measurable, positive gains in nearly all aspects of women's lives?
 
2012-11-13 01:22:50 PM  
they go somewhere else and get it done?
 
2012-11-13 01:35:39 PM  
women who carried an unwanted pregnancy to term are three times more likely than women who receive an abortion to be below the poverty level two years later.

sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-11-13 01:58:37 PM  
Every single result in that study was exactly what I expected what basically everyone except the right has been saying for years.
 
2012-11-13 02:43:37 PM  
I'll have to read this in depth when I get home, but for now can I just suggest that somebody get started on a study of what happens to children of parents who are denied abortions?

I mean, it's kind of a no brainer, but a scientific study confirming it would be nice.
 
2012-11-13 02:50:15 PM  
Most of the women who were denied an abortion, 86%, were living with their babies a year later. Only 11% had put them up for adoption

Well, clearly the lack of an abortion is what was responsible for their later financial status, not their inexplicable unwillingness to put their kids up for adoption. "Hey, I don't mind murdering my own kids in cold blood, but I'll be damned if I let somebody else raise them!"
 
2012-11-13 03:22:07 PM  

GAT_00: Every single result in that study was exactly what I expected what basically everyone except the right has been saying for years.


what what wut?
 
2012-11-13 03:26:50 PM  

serial_crusher: Most of the women who were denied an abortion, 86%, were living with their babies a year later. Only 11% had put them up for adoption

Well, clearly the lack of an abortion is what was responsible for their later financial status, not their inexplicable unwillingness to put their kids up for adoption. "Hey, I don't mind murdering my own kids in cold blood, but I'll be damned if I let somebody else raise them!"


Inexplicable?
 
2012-11-13 03:29:55 PM  

serial_crusher: Most of the women who were denied an abortion, 86%, were living with their babies a year later. Only 11% had put them up for adoption

Well, clearly the lack of an abortion is what was responsible for their later financial status, not their inexplicable unwillingness to put their kids up for adoption. "Hey, I don't mind murdering my own kids in cold blood, but I'll be damned if I let somebody else raise them!"


Maybe that was the decision of the remaining 3%.
 
2012-11-13 03:35:53 PM  

gopher321: GAT_00: Every single result in that study was exactly what I expected & what basically everyone except the right has been saying for years.

what what wut?


It wasn't that difficult to find the missing piece :D
 
2012-11-13 03:37:07 PM  

BSABSVR: serial_crusher: Most of the women who were denied an abortion, 86%, were living with their babies a year later. Only 11% had put them up for adoption

Well, clearly the lack of an abortion is what was responsible for their later financial status, not their inexplicable unwillingness to put their kids up for adoption. "Hey, I don't mind murdering my own kids in cold blood, but I'll be damned if I let somebody else raise them!"

Inexplicable?


I think what he means is its the fault of democrats that they keep their babies. Without welfare they wouldn't be tricked into keeping that burden around. Then they get hooked on the sweet sweet welfare for life.
 
2012-11-13 03:39:11 PM  
When a woman is denied the abortion she wants, she is statistically more likely to wind up unemployed, on public assistance, and below the poverty line. Another conclusion we could draw is that denying women abortions places more burden on the state because of these new mothers' increased reliance on public assistance programs.
 
2012-11-13 03:39:24 PM  

serial_crusher: Most of the women who were denied an abortion, 86%, were living with their babies a year later. Only 11% had put them up for adoption

Well, clearly the lack of an abortion is what was responsible for their later financial status, not their inexplicable unwillingness to put their kids up for adoption. "Hey, I don't mind murdering my own kids in cold blood, but I'll be damned if I let somebody else raise them!"


It's not like adoption in the states has been intentionally made so absurdly near to impossible that most people that adopt find it easier to cross and ocean and deal with international adoption paperwork instead or anything.
 
2012-11-13 03:39:34 PM  
We have found that there are no mental health consequences of abortion compared to carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term. There are other interesting findings: even later abortion is safer than childbirth and women who carried an unwanted pregnancy to term are three times more likely than women who receive an abortion to be below the poverty level two years later.

Wow, that strawman sure took a beating there. Well done, study.
 
2012-11-13 03:40:02 PM  
I'd be interested in seeing the difference between a single mother and a "Turn Away".

/I only did a quick skim of the article
 
2012-11-13 03:40:57 PM  
When their kids reach their teens they break into your house when your gone and steal your guns.
 
2012-11-13 03:42:18 PM  

GAT_00: Every single result in that study was exactly what I expected what basically everyone except the right has been saying for years.


So for years, you thought the reason the right opposes abortion is because it's unsafe, helps them financially and causes mental distress to the mother? That's odd.
 
2012-11-13 03:42:27 PM  
I think it's Dusk that usually comes in and post the picture of a woman holding a sign that says "Abortion and Birth Control on demand and without apology."

I like that picture.
 
2012-11-13 03:42:57 PM  
They get a coupon?
 
2012-11-13 03:43:08 PM  

serial_crusher: Well, clearly the lack of an abortion is what was responsible for their later financial status, not their inexplicable unwillingness to put their kids up for adoption. "Hey, I don't mind murdering my own kids in cold blood, but I'll be damned if I let somebody else raise them!"


Does it not seem the slightest bit odd to you that the only way your conclusion regarding that data seems to make any sense is if you attach it to a completely fictional quote you assigned to a group of people you know next to nothing about? Does that not trigger some sort of alarm in your head that maybe, just maybe you are wrong and you haven't clearly thought your argument through?
 
2012-11-13 03:44:13 PM  
This should be no surprise to anyone who listens to social workers decompress on a regular basis.

I wonder if the study addresses incidence of abuse beyond physical (emotional, financial, etc.). You can probably double that 7% occurrence rate, at minimum.

Who knew that forcing women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term would have negative effects?
 
2012-11-13 03:44:48 PM  
My One-Swift-Punch-to-the-Stomach business really picks up.
 
2012-11-13 03:44:54 PM  

dahmers love zombie: I wonder who would be opposed to significant, measurable, positive gains in nearly all aspects of women's lives?


Could it beeee... SATAN?
 
2012-11-13 03:45:07 PM  

lennavan: strawman


Is it a strawman if right-wing politicians and pundits actually make the arguments? At that point isn't it just a very weak argument?
 
2012-11-13 03:46:11 PM  

HellRaisingHoosier: I'd be interested in seeing the difference between a single mother and a "Turn Away".

/I only did a quick skim of the article


Not quite what you were asking for, but interesting.

The researchers asked women about cohabiting with partners, and found that men were no more likely to live with a turnaway who'd borne their children than they were to live with a woman who had an abortion. "The man doesn't stick around just because you have the baby - that's the crude way of putting it," Green said.
 
2012-11-13 03:48:37 PM  
Stop taunting the Right with math, they've had a hard week.
/jk, taunt to your heart's content
 
2012-11-13 03:48:43 PM  
If it is not in the bible it will not be considered....
 
2012-11-13 03:49:21 PM  

serial_crusher: I'll have to read this in depth when I get home, but for now can I just suggest that somebody get started on a study of what happens to children of parents who are denied abortions?


seems like a lot of work, how about a study to see what happens to children of parents who are not denied abortions?
 
2012-11-13 03:49:22 PM  
i think there are very few people that aren't aware of the pragmatic benefits of abortions. The question is not, "is it pragmatic?" the question is, "is it right?" it would also be pragmatic to throw people into a volcano once they hit 65. but would it be right?

i think the arguments against abortion are entirely consistent and even admirable. that said, i am mostly a pragmatic person and the real life benefits of abortion seem to outweigh the debatable ideas about life, morality, and what is and is not a human being.
 
2012-11-13 03:49:23 PM  

lennavan: We have found that there are no mental health consequences of abortion compared to carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term. There are other interesting findings: even later abortion is safer than childbirth and women who carried an unwanted pregnancy to term are three times more likely than women who receive an abortion to be below the poverty level two years later.

Wow, that strawman sure took a beating there. Well done, study.


A strawman is when you attribute an argument to a debate opponent the opponent does not actually hold. This study was not a debate. It looked at facts. Measurable, quantifiable facts.

Of course, if you're arguing that this study was trying to debate the right wing, and that the actual position of the right wing isn't so much 'abortions bad for women' as 'abortions immoral and therefore we don't care if it hurts women', I can see your argument, but it's still not really a strawman because the study isn't debating anything.
 
2012-11-13 03:50:08 PM  

lennavan: So for years, you thought the reason the right opposes abortion is because it's unsafe, helps them financially and causes mental distress to the mother?


I remember the days when you put more effort into pretending to be liberal. Now you're not even trying to hide your true nature anymore.
 
2012-11-13 03:50:19 PM  
i3.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-11-13 03:51:05 PM  

Smackledorfer: lennavan: strawman

Is it a strawman if right-wing politicians and pundits actually make the arguments? At that point isn't it just a very weak argument?


The opposition to abortion has to do with the rights of the fetus. Either the fetus has rights or it doesn't. If the fetus has rights, who gives a fark if financially hinders the mother or makes her depressed? All of this nonsense is an irrelevant sideshow.
 
2012-11-13 03:51:24 PM  

Jim_Callahan: serial_crusher: Most of the women who were denied an abortion, 86%, were living with their babies a year later. Only 11% had put them up for adoption

Well, clearly the lack of an abortion is what was responsible for their later financial status, not their inexplicable unwillingness to put their kids up for adoption. "Hey, I don't mind murdering my own kids in cold blood, but I'll be damned if I let somebody else raise them!"

It's not like adoption in the states has been intentionally made so absurdly near to impossible that most people that adopt find it easier to cross and ocean and deal with international adoption paperwork instead or anything.


Yeah, but regardless of how had it is to adopt, it's not that difficult to give your baby to the government and make it the taxpayers' problem.
I get that we don't really take care of orphaned children the way we should, and that nobody wants their kid to live that shiatty life, but it sounds like attempting to raise the kid yourself isn't really yielding better results.
 
2012-11-13 03:52:18 PM  
My take away from the link:

Pro life is effectively pro domestic abuse.
 
2012-11-13 03:52:35 PM  
I'm generally among the libbiest libs whoever libbed a lib but I have a 3 yo and another one on the way. I also have a lot of friends who have had a lot of trouble trying to conceive and others who are on long waiting lists to adopt. I know it sucks to carry a kid you don't want to term and that its hard to put it up for adoption but I still think that is the way to go. I'd rather take the 10% chance the mom will put it up for adoption or me having to help pay the freight by way of taxes to raise a kid she can't afford as opposed to the idea of snuffing out a life before it ever has a chance in this world.

I guess that makes me a mean old heartless conservative now who wants to be all up in a lady's business but what can I say, becoming a dad has done weird things to me.
 
2012-11-13 03:54:06 PM  

James F. Campbell: lennavan: So for years, you thought the reason the right opposes abortion is because it's unsafe, helps them financially and causes mental distress to the mother?

I remember the days when you put more effort into pretending to be liberal. Now you're not even trying to hide your true nature anymore.


you better get better at line-toeing, lenn. Fark's resident misanthropic attention whore is questioning your bona fides
 
2012-11-13 03:54:11 PM  
soo what they're saying is the more babies you abort, the better life you'll have? Woohoo! I'm going to go get pregnant and abort like 100 times! Then I'll be rich!
 
2012-11-13 03:55:19 PM  

James F. Campbell: lennavan: So for years, you thought the reason the right opposes abortion is because it's unsafe, helps them financially and causes mental distress to the mother?

I remember the days when you put more effort into pretending to be liberal. Now you're not even trying to hide your true nature anymore.


What exactly is my true nature? You realize I'm pro-choice for something like 99% of abortions, right? Of course you didn't. So now that this study came out what am I supposed to say, it's okay to be pro-choice because it saves women money? Fark dude, there's actually an honest opposition to abortion that has to do with rights. Indeed the most fundamental right - the right to exist. And here you are pretending it's about money?

Ridiculous. Tell you what, if pretending the main reason Conservatives are against abortion because of money and it's bad for the mental health of mothers is what is required to be liberal, I'm cool with not being called liberal.
 
2012-11-13 03:55:20 PM  
This study is pretty bullshiat.

It doesn't even try to look at the effects of finding a supportive church or otherwise finding Jesus on the well-being of the mother or the (previously) unwanted child.
 
2012-11-13 03:55:33 PM  
...three times more likely than women who receive an abortion to be below the poverty level two years later.

Why does every GOP policy result in the middle class entering poverty? It's almost like there is a pattern.
 
2012-11-13 03:56:03 PM  

serial_crusher: I'll have to read this in depth when I get home, but for now can I just suggest that somebody get started on a study of what happens to children of parents who are denied abortions?

I mean, it's kind of a no brainer, but a scientific study confirming it would be nice.


I'm not sure it's such a no brainer. I mean, if the parents are more likely to be below the poverty line, you could be talking a decrease in quality of life for *other* children of that parent. If the unaborted child is an only child, one can easily assume what challenges would be passed directly to the child, and which might be mitigated by society. But even then, you would only get the picture of the child's life experience while growing up. From that you can use existing studies to make assumptions about how those children might fare later in life. Psychologically, Scholastically, Emotionally, etc. We've got lots of data showing correlations between a wide variety of life experiences and environmental stressers, and the condition of the individual later in life.

I'd contest that it's nearly impossible to reach any reasonably reliable conclusion about "what happens to the children of parents who are denied abortion", apart from "they are born, whereas their aborted counterparts are ... aborted."

But that can't be what you meant. At least, that didn't sound like the tone of your question. It might very well be what you meant... but that would make you an anti-abortion shill masquerading as a rational and well-meaning conservative, concerned with the facts of the matter only. I actually don't think that's your angle here though.
 
2012-11-13 03:56:51 PM  
They live happily ever after?
 
2012-11-13 03:56:54 PM  
www.justsaypictures.com
 
2012-11-13 03:58:13 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: they go somewhere else and get it done?


Is everything you say just pulled out you ass?
 
2012-11-13 03:58:49 PM  
Many people forget or fail to understand that the same systems in place that keep a woman from getting an abortion basically force her to keep the kid after it's born. If your family ./ partner is not supportive of abortion, they're going to treat you even more like shiat if you give the baby up for adoption because, after all, just listen to mommy you'll like your kid after it's born and it NEEDS you, not some nurse in a hospital and people don't adopt minority kids anyway, so there's no reason to put it up for adoption, you'll just get it raped in foster care, etc. etc. etc.
 
2012-11-13 03:59:37 PM  
Subsidizing condoms stops abortion.
Subjecting abortion to official sanction kills women.

Pro-condom is pro-life
 
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