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(Some Guy)   "Why on earth do you manipulate your accounts so that you get away with not paying corporation tax in the U.K.," asks MP who answers her own question   (totaltele.com) divider line 27
    More: Obvious, corporation tax, Google, Amazon, multinational corporations  
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1517 clicks; posted to Business » on 13 Nov 2012 at 12:58 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-13 01:03:20 PM
"You wrote the system. We're just minimizing our tax obligation within the limits of those laws."
"Don't hate the playa', hate the game."
 
2012-11-13 01:42:34 PM
Because while they are people, corporations are citizens of no country and only hold loyalty to their large share holders.
 
2012-11-13 01:54:06 PM

wingnut396: Because while they are people, corporations are citizens of no country and only hold loyalty to their large share holders.


Loyalty has nothing to do with paying taxes.

I'm sure you take every due tax credit as well
 
2012-11-13 02:00:08 PM
Then it was found that Margaret Hodge owns shares in a company that is run by her brother that paid 0.01% tax on its revenues...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/businesslatestnews/9668396/Margare t -Hodges-family-company-pays-just-0.01pc-tax-on-2.1bn-of-business-gener ated-in-the-UK.html

Yeah, proper patriot.
 
2012-11-13 02:00:32 PM

MugzyBrown: wingnut396: Because while they are people, corporations are citizens of no country and only hold loyalty to their large share holders.

Loyalty has nothing to do with paying taxes.

I'm sure you take every due tax credit as well


I don't. My wife has a small business and we don't take everything so that if we get audited they can write us a check. It isn't earth shattering money, but enough to irritate an auditor.

What is really amusing to watch is divisions of companies paying real money to other firms to write software to avoid charge backs from other departments. It turns soft costs into hard costs.
 
2012-11-13 02:03:59 PM

MugzyBrown: wingnut396: Because while they are people, corporations are citizens of no country and only hold loyalty to their large share holders.

Loyalty has nothing to do with paying taxes.

I'm sure you take every due tax credit as well


Yes, but that doesn't mean having my boss classify my salary as a capital gain just so I can pay 15% on it, as opposed to the actual income rate. You know, like most brokerages pay their staffs. It also doesn't mean classifying my political advocacy group as a nonprofit. It also doesn't mean moving money on paper so that it looks like the Cayman division - for like the 20th year running, what's with that? - made a 6,000% profit on a couple hundred bucks' investment, while the US, UK, German, Swedish and Japanese branches lost almost everything they didn't spend on salary and stuff (computers, pens, etc).

Playing games with the credits - even though changing the designation of salary to cap gains is technically "legal", it's shady as hell, and if it was really that good/easy (and higher taxes cost jobs), why doesn't every company do it? - so you can reduce your liability or increase deductions far outside the spirit of the law is what's at issue.
 
2012-11-13 02:27:20 PM

TheGreatGazoo: I don't. My wife has a small business and we don't take everything so that if we get audited they can write us a check. It isn't earth shattering money, but enough to irritate an auditor.


That is just retarded.
 
2012-11-13 02:35:22 PM

MugzyBrown: wingnut396: Because while they are people, corporations are citizens of no country and only hold loyalty to their large share holders.

Loyalty has nothing to do with paying taxes.

I'm sure you take every due tax credit as well


Taking a tax credit for a giving a few hundred bucks a year to a charity is a bit different than gaming the system where my company make no money, the CEO doesn't pay taxes and then they both complain that they need government assistance with a foreign government in their overseas office where they funnel all their profits to avoid paying taxes to the government they are asking for help.

But you knew that...
 
2012-11-13 02:47:06 PM
Tax credits is a nice way of saying political pay off.

Give me some money or contribute and I'll see you get a nice credit or exemption for your business.

What's a politician without the ability to tax ?
 
2012-11-13 03:14:17 PM
"Why on earth do you manipulate your accounts so that you get away with not paying corporation tax in the U.K."

Then make a flat corporate tax rate. Ah, but then you couldn't give away goodies to your friends and sell your services in exchange for campaign contributions. So you made the bed.
 
2012-11-13 03:24:48 PM
"Taxes are for the little people". Never was a truer word said. Corporations and rich people use the tax loopholes left there specifically for them to use by the lawmakers who are, or hope to become, rich themselves. Meanwhile if you dodge tax it's PMITA prison for you, you MONSTER.
 
2012-11-13 03:32:30 PM

wingnut396: MugzyBrown: wingnut396: Because while they are people, corporations are citizens of no country and only hold loyalty to their large share holders.

Loyalty has nothing to do with paying taxes.

I'm sure you take every due tax credit as well

Taking a tax credit for a giving a few hundred bucks a year to a charity is a bit different than gaming the system where my company make no money, the CEO doesn't pay taxes and then they both complain that they need government assistance with a foreign government in their overseas office where they funnel all their profits to avoid paying taxes to the government they are asking for help.

But you knew that...


Gaming the system, unless it violates a law, is exactly the same as taking a credit for a chartiable deduction.
 
2012-11-13 04:09:15 PM
Arrest, charge, and convict Jeff Bezos, Larry Page, and Steve Ballmer for tax evasion and watch how quickly this problem goes away.
 
2012-11-13 04:12:52 PM

NewWorldDan: Arrest, charge, and convict Jeff Bezos, Larry Page, and Steve Ballmer for tax evasion and watch how quickly this problem goes away.


In what jurisdiction? Wouldn't they just avoid that one? You know, they're rich, and it's not tough to do that when you've got the bucks...
 
2012-11-13 04:13:47 PM

NewWorldDan: Arrest, charge, and convict Jeff Bezos, Larry Page, and Steve Ballmer for tax evasion and watch how quickly this problem goes away.


Why?.. its perfectly legal under the existing tax code.
 
2012-11-13 05:01:28 PM

NewWorldDan: Arrest, charge, and convict Jeff Bezos, Larry Page, and Steve Ballmer for tax evasion and watch how quickly this problem goes away.


They haven't evaded any tax. They've avoided tax. Which is legal.

And frankly, for a committee of MPs to complain about businesses that do it, when they often claim maximum housing allowances from the state, despite living at a commutable distance, renting houses on expenses and then subletting them to people, making fradulent claims and flipping their houses to avoid taxes, they've got a bit of a farking cheek. Hercules couldn't clear all the shiat out of Westminster.
 
2012-11-13 05:08:10 PM

Dr Dreidel: MugzyBrown: wingnut396: Because while they are people, corporations are citizens of no country and only hold loyalty to their large share holders.

Loyalty has nothing to do with paying taxes.

I'm sure you take every due tax credit as well

Yes, but that doesn't mean having my boss classify my salary as a capital gain just so I can pay 15% on it, as opposed to the actual income rate. You know, like most brokerages pay their staffs.


Yeah, I don't think you have even the slightest clue about what you're talking about.
 
2012-11-13 05:12:00 PM
Tax avoidance is perfectly legal. Tax EVASION is illegal.

If I earn $100 and donate that to charity, I avoid paying taxes on that $100.00.

If I earn $100 and just do not report it I am EVADING that tax.

One is legal, the other is not. Rich corporations just have to do a double Irish with a Dutch Sandwich to get the job done.

If you want that to be illegal then make it illegal, and corporations will have to comply. It is the complexity of the tax code that allows companies to get away with this. Simplify the code so these holes do not exist and you will see things change.

As long as there is a way to game the system companies/people will do it.
 
2012-11-13 05:15:25 PM
They follow the law. I'm sure they have an army of well paid lawyers and accountants, most of them far more competent than the ones that accept civil service positions, making sure they don't have to pay a penny more than the law requires. And they never will. Just like you don't see Bill Gates or Warren Buffet paying one red cent more than they have to when they pay taxes. They'll happily tell you they SHOULD be taxed more, they DESERVE to be taxed more, but their accountants take every deduction they can get away with and probably a few more than that.
 
2012-11-13 06:19:53 PM
Check it out: "Why on earth do you manipulate your accounts so that you get away with not paying corporation tax in the U.K.?" committee chairwoman Margaret Hodge asked the three men

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hodge#Public_Accounts_Committe e

There have been concerns raised in the national Press recently over the fact that Hodge, as chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, is leading an investigation into the controversial tax arrangements of a number of US companies operating in the UK when her own family company 'pays just 0.01pc tax on £2.1bn of business generated in the UK.'[39]

Stemcor, Hodge's family company, was founded by her father Hans Oppenheimer more than 60 years ago. Analysis of Stemcor's latest accounts show that the business paid tax of just £163,000 on revenues of more than £2.1bn in 2011.


IOKIYAMP

And she's a homeopathy nut.
 
2012-11-13 06:26:37 PM
However, it is a fine balancing: large multinational companies provide the British and German economies with jobs, investment and growth and increased tax bills could cause the companies to move their operations elsewhere.

That there is horsecrap at it's finest. The only reason these companies are doing business in the UK is because there is money to be made. Raising their tax burden will not suddenly make people stop wanting their goods and services. About the only thing this will impact is passing the cost onto the consumers, which *gasp* might lead to competitive local businesses having a chance!
 
2012-11-13 06:30:51 PM

Baelz: However, it is a fine balancing: large multinational companies provide the British and German economies with jobs, investment and growth and increased tax bills could cause the companies to move their operations elsewhere.

That there is horsecrap at it's finest. The only reason these companies are doing business in the UK is because there is money to be made. Raising their tax burden will not suddenly make people stop wanting their goods and services. About the only thing this will impact is passing the cost onto the consumers, which *gasp* might lead to competitive local businesses having a chance!


How would local business have a chance? They operate under the same taxation regime.

Believe it or not, moving profits somewhere else isn't rocket science. I've talked to my accountant about it even.
 
2012-11-13 07:40:17 PM
Nobody on earth pays more taxes than they have to. Nobody.
 
2012-11-13 09:28:11 PM
Of course corporations follow the tax laws.. they wrote them.
 
2012-11-14 07:43:08 AM
The Warren Buffett of the UK
 
2012-11-14 08:27:33 AM

DrPainMD: Nobody on earth pays more taxes than they have to. Nobody.


Well, nobody except someone trying to lie his way to be President anyway....
 
2012-11-14 10:19:48 AM

Baelz: That there is horsecrap at it's finest. The only reason these companies are doing business in the UK is because there is money to be made. Raising their tax burden will not suddenly make people stop wanting their goods and services. About the only thing this will impact is passing the cost onto the consumers, which *gasp* might lead to competitive local businesses having a chance!


You misunderstand the argument; they aren't saying McDonald's is going to close up "restaurants" and leave. They may, however, close up distribution centers and/or corporate offices to move them to countries with a lower tax burden and will also forgo opening future offices/centers inside the country/region/state/etc with the higher costs. Easy examples in the US are manufacturing plants moving south for reduced labor costs, taxes, and regulations (such as Boeing).
 
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