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(Yahoo)   Since it has exceeded the 25,000 signature threshold, the White House by its own rules, may have to formally respond to the TX secession petition on WhiteHouse.gov. Aides say possible responses include "aww hell Naw" and "No. Fark You"   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 412
    More: Followup, naw, White House, Texas Secession, Grandma's, original idea, petitions, federal courts, enumerated powers  
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10702 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Nov 2012 at 12:03 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-13 04:21:30 PM  

More_Like_A_Stain: FormlessOne: Texas out, Puerto Rico in. I could live with that.

At least we wouldn't have to change the flag.


Take it further. Call Puerto Rico Texas and refer to Texas (after secession) as the Mexico/US DMZ.
 
2012-11-13 04:22:42 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-13 04:28:18 PM  

Tickle Mittens: They can leave.


They can? Because it's not clear to me that any country would gladly accept most of them. In some countries passport enforcement is pretty weak, so you could get away with overstaying your visa, but actual legal immigration is not a trivial thing most places (at least not unless you're rich).

At this point there isn't really anyplace for them to go -- it's not like there are huge unclaimed tracts of land someplace where they could setup a new government. I suppose they could revive colonialism and just go take land from someone poorly suited to defend it, but for the last hundred years or so that sort of action has been poorly received by the international community.
 
2012-11-13 04:31:50 PM  

FormlessOne: similar to Guam - Texans would lose their right to vote, and would no longer be U.S. citizens.


The people of Guam are US citizens, since 1950. They just don't get federal representation. But they would be allowed to vote if they moved to a state, much like the people of Puerto Rico.
 
2012-11-13 04:31:51 PM  

Daniels: FormlessOne: You couldn't have drained the fun out of my satire faster if you'd actually held it underwater and throttled it while screaming in a high-pitched voice about how Kevin Spacey gets all your parts. Honestly, you didn't actually take my post as actual speculation, did you?

Not really. I just kinda want to a state to start secession proceedings just to see what happens. I think it would be amusing to watch as long as it's kept to courtrooms.


It'd be horrible, to be honest, because you know full well it wouldn't be kept to courtrooms, not if our country's history is any indicator. It'd become a mess, at a rough patch in our history. It could very well become the first falling domino towards a secessionary rush, a second Civil War.

I'd much prefer to just kid around about it on Fark than live through that kind of turmoil.
 
2012-11-13 04:36:35 PM  

profplump: FormlessOne: similar to Guam - Texans would lose their right to vote, and would no longer be U.S. citizens.

The people of Guam are US citizens, since 1950. They just don't get federal representation. But they would be allowed to vote if they moved to a state, much like the people of Puerto Rico.


True, and I used a bad example. Probably should've used American Samoa. Either way, though, that's definitely the status Texas deserves if they pulled such crap - U.S. nationals, not U.S. citizens - and we had to pummel them into territory-hood.
 
2012-11-13 04:37:37 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Daniels: Philip Francis Queeg: Yes, with Allies, not hostile nations. A recently seceded Texas could not possibly be counted on as a dependable ally. I;'mm sure they will be able to provide for their own defense needs. If they can't, oh well, it would be sad. The US might have to militarily intervene like we have been known to in Caribbean and Latin American countries.

And we'd have even less of a stomach for occupying Texas with the military. It was easier to put down rebellion with the army before TV.

True. best to leave them to fend for themselves against whatever hostile groups they might have to contend with. We will just fortify the border to ensure that the bloodshed doesn't spill over and to keep the refugees out.


I don't get the impression that you can be truly objective in this discussion. I'm not trying to insult you, I just kind of get the feeling you're a bit peeved.
 
2012-11-13 04:37:40 PM  

profplump: Tickle Mittens: They can leave.

They can? Because it's not clear to me that any country would gladly accept most of them. In some countries passport enforcement is pretty weak, so you could get away with overstaying your visa, but actual legal immigration is not a trivial thing most places (at least not unless you're rich).

At this point there isn't really anyplace for them to go -- it's not like there are huge unclaimed tracts of land someplace where they could setup a new government. I suppose they could revive colonialism and just go take land from someone poorly suited to defend it, but for the last hundred years or so that sort of action has been poorly received by the international community.


They can swim out into the ocean with a rifle strapped to their back. So long as they don't set foot upon the US again, what happens after that does not interest me.
 
2012-11-13 04:39:42 PM  

FormlessOne: Daniels: FormlessOne: The inevitable result is that either the United States or Mexico would reclaim Texas in a short conflict. If the United States was forced to reclaim Texas, we'd probably treat it as a federal territory, similar to Guam - Texans would lose their right to vote, and would no longer be U.S. citizens.

Texas passports would contain the phrase, "THE BEARER IS A UNITED STATES NATIONAL AND NOT A UNITED STATES CITIZEN." Texans would not be able to destroy public schooling, or screw up elections, or make idiotic proclamations that would be taken seriously by real U.S. citizens. Texas would become as relevant as, well, Puerto Rico - heck, even less so, as we may end up making Puerto Rico a state soon.

It's unlikely the USG would be able to strip citizenship unless each person took an oath to Texas. If citizenship was granted by an act of the legislature, it probably wouldn't fall under the "strip citizenship because you took an oath to a foreign nation." Texas would have no reason to form a military, since there's a zero percent chance the US would let them be invaded by a hostile nation.

You couldn't have drained the fun out of my satire faster if you'd actually held it underwater and throttled it while screaming in a high-pitched voice about how Kevin Spacey gets all your parts. Honestly, you didn't actually take my post as actual speculation, did you?


In his defense, did you see the rest of the thread? how was he supposed to pick your one "satire" post out of the hundreds of mindless drivel posts?
 
2012-11-13 04:40:05 PM  
Dear petition signers: We get it, you are unhappy that your side didn't win. Waah.

// Your hot, bitter tears of disappointment are as nectar to us. Thank you.
 
2012-11-13 04:45:22 PM  

Tickle Mittens: profplump: Tickle Mittens: They can leave.

They can? Because it's not clear to me that any country would gladly accept most of them. In some countries passport enforcement is pretty weak, so you could get away with overstaying your visa, but actual legal immigration is not a trivial thing most places (at least not unless you're rich).

At this point there isn't really anyplace for them to go -- it's not like there are huge unclaimed tracts of land someplace where they could setup a new government. I suppose they could revive colonialism and just go take land from someone poorly suited to defend it, but for the last hundred years or so that sort of action has been poorly received by the international community.

They can swim out into the ocean with a rifle strapped to their back. So long as they don't set foot upon the US again, what happens after that does not interest me.


Look at you, making such a novel and reasonable argument. I'll bet you would be phenomenal at foreign policy decisions with such sound reasoning.
 
2012-11-13 04:45:46 PM  
How in the hell did Obama get back in? Didn't the last 4 years prove enough for all you idiots? He will ruin the country!!! Mark my words 4 years from now! A huge "I told you so," is coming!!! Uneducated voters!
 
2012-11-13 04:50:41 PM  
The bottom line is that it is a very small majority of people who aren't terribly intelligent and it's not going to happen. Not at all. It would be a ridiculously complicated and drastic action for what amounts to a temporary problem, but these people lack the sense to see this.

Off topic:
I have a feeling there is a certain number of people on Fark who think everyone who deosn't like Obama is racist, and a fairly decent number of them were probably involved in the initial state hate going on.

That's pretty funny when you think about it. what's the difference between hating someone based on color and hating someone based on where they live?
 
2012-11-13 04:51:51 PM  

ehahn: How in the hell did Obama get back in? Didn't the last 4 years prove enough for all you idiots? He will ruin the country!!! Mark my words 4 years from now! A huge "I told you so," is coming!!! Uneducated voters!


Don't you think you're being just a little bit obvious?
 
2012-11-13 04:53:54 PM  
Screw all of you, I'm from Texas. My solution here is to name all states TEXAS then succeed from ourselves.

All hail the United State of Texas's
 
2012-11-13 04:57:41 PM  

John0x: Screw all of you, I'm from Texas. My solution here is to name all states TEXAS then succeed from ourselves.

All hail the United State of Texas's


It would never work. There aren't enough cows to go around.
 
2012-11-13 05:12:01 PM  
It'll take more than 25,000 Texans to secede.
 
2012-11-13 05:14:28 PM  
i13.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-13 05:28:21 PM  
80,000+ Texans now. Beating out the legalize marijuana petition.
 
2012-11-13 05:39:50 PM  

BattleAxe: 80,000+ Texans now. Beating out the legalize marijuana petition.


How many of them are actually Texans and how many are out-of-staters signing their fifth or sixth secession petition of the day?
 
2012-11-13 05:49:21 PM  

Gosling: BattleAxe: 80,000+ Texans now. Beating out the legalize marijuana petition.

How many of them are actually Texans and how many are out-of-staters signing their fifth or sixth secession petition of the day?


Signing a secession petition on the White House's website implies that you accept that Obama is the legitimate President.

i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-11-13 05:58:06 PM  

Tax Boy: Gosling: BattleAxe: 80,000+ Texans now. Beating out the legalize marijuana petition.

How many of them are actually Texans and how many are out-of-staters signing their fifth or sixth secession petition of the day?

Signing a secession petition on the White House's website implies that you accept that Obama is the legitimate President.


Okay that's funny.
 
2012-11-13 06:05:03 PM  

Gosling: BattleAxe: 80,000+ Texans now. Beating out the legalize marijuana petition.

How many of them are actually Texans and how many are out-of-staters signing their fifth or sixth secession petition of the day?


Or people just signing the petition for the lulz.

Enjoyed your blog post, BTW. :)
 
2012-11-13 06:06:43 PM  

o5iiawah: Would they? Every "Dollar in vs. Dollar out" graph I've seen shows Texas around +/- ..$.05 of a 1:1 ratio. of course, Texas would almost certainly have to enact an income tax but it would be low and more than affordable since all of its citizens are no longer paying Federal Income Tax.


Pretty sure that wouldn't even cover most highway/road repairs.

Try again.
 
2012-11-13 06:12:08 PM  

sodomizer: You go be Democrats in the blue states and try out all your new theories. We'll secede, and then clean up when you implode like your inspiration, the Soviet Union.


Oh, you're still here after the election? You're a plucky fella.  Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Didn't I hear that the red states were largely a net drain on the US economy? You think Texas can make it on its own without the rest of the USA?
 
2012-11-13 06:18:42 PM  

Matt Foley: Perducci: FirstNationalBastard: Give Texas back to Mexico, wait a couple weeks, watch as they beg to return.

Problem solved.

Or let them try to survive independently. Maybe they can join with Quebec and become some sort of new superpower.

The national cuisine would be awesome. Chili Poutine with a maple glazed 20 oz. ribeye.


www.operatorchan.org
So hungry now for Téxécoise cuisine.
 
2012-11-13 07:15:48 PM  

sethen320: grimlock1972: Imma be serious on this. if i was the president i would put out a group response to all the succession petitions and close them all down, the response would simply be a cut and paste of the Constitution making succession illegal and nothing else as it doesn't matter how nice you are these nitwits are gonna be pissed with anything short of what the president has no reason or authority to grant.

If you were president I would hope you knew the difference between succession and secession.

I'm not picking on you, it's just a peeve. The word has been used extensively throughout the thread.


its called a typo XD the kind spell check misses. and i do know the difference.
 
KIA
2012-11-13 07:17:35 PM  

sprawl15: Secession is unconstitutional. QED.


Actually, it is not addressed in the Constitution. It may have been addressed vi et armis in the Civil War, but has never been actually resolved by any kind of rational analysis. The Union, after all, is not a gang from which one must be beaten out.

What would be really entertaining is if Texas exercised its' Constitutional right to split itself into four states. Four more red states. That would liven things up.
 
2012-11-13 07:19:18 PM  
I vote that Israel and Texas swap populations. Problems solved.
 
2012-11-13 07:25:41 PM  
This petition as well as the others is nothing more than ignorant, petulant butthurt manifest.
The short answer is no
The long answer is NNNNnnnOOOOOOOOOOOO.

The fact is, we are stuck with them and they us. Period.

As an official Presidential statement he would not have the luxury of an appropriate flippant reply.
He could however use this occasion to appeal for unification and a willingness to work to together for the betterment of the country.

The question is, is he a statesman or merely a politician.
This is actually a big opportunity for the administration.
 
2012-11-13 07:39:19 PM  

ciberido: Matt Foley: Perducci: FirstNationalBastard: Give Texas back to Mexico, wait a couple weeks, watch as they beg to return.

Problem solved.

Or let them try to survive independently. Maybe they can join with Quebec and become some sort of new superpower.

The national cuisine would be awesome. Chili Poutine with a maple glazed 20 oz. ribeye.

[www.operatorchan.org image 500x375]
So hungry now for Téxécoise cuisine.


My husband puts creton on my buttermilk biscuits and I eat cornbread with his soupe aux pois.
 
2012-11-13 08:13:25 PM  

signaljammer: When Virginia joined the Union it was with the written understanding that they were free to secede.

That said, all of this is racism pure and simple. Obama is just a shade to the right of Andrew Jackson.


This is probably a dumb question, but does that have anything to do with being a "commonwealth" rather than a "state"?
 
2012-11-13 08:13:40 PM  

Gleeman: Because secession worked out so well the last time some states tried it.

History books, not just for resting your head...


Yeah but last time, a Republican President kicked their ass down the block. This time a Democratic President will have that pleasure.

Failure. How does it work?
 
2012-11-13 08:19:39 PM  

BgJonson79: More_Like_A_Stain: mark12A: Of course, when the Mexicans take over California, and start agitating for secession, Farkistan will cheer them on as they correct an historic wrong, i.e., Mexico's loss of California to the US....

/politically correct disintegration of USA is the best kind of disintegration

So let me get this straight. Mexicans will endure the hardship and risk of illegally crossing the border presumably in order to build a better life for themselves than they could have in Mexico. And then they will decide that the best way to create that life is to live in Mexico?

What makes you think they'd join Mexico? Why not their own country?


Because
1) Texas used to belong to México until they rebelled. México might want it back.
2) We sell Texas back to México for a little cash
 
2012-11-13 08:22:59 PM  

Honest Bender: StreetlightInTheGhetto: I think he should just walk into the press room, go behind the podium, pick up the mic, recite Bill Pullman's speech from Independence Day, drop it, and leave. But that's just me.

Podium

Lectern

/TMMK!


Actually, one definition of podium IS lectern. So, while you're correct, so, technically, is StreetlightInTheGhetto.
 
2012-11-13 09:05:23 PM  

doubled99: Why do so many of you have a problem with this? Let em do it.


Because there are a lot of people in TX who AREN'T wackjobs. With all this said, we're hardly witnessing Civil War 2.0. We're talking a tiny group of people, not the whole friggin state. I'm all for reducing the scope of the Federal Government in favor of more local control (regardless of what administration is administering it), but I can't see "secession" as either sane, or productive.
 
2012-11-13 09:40:58 PM  

grimlock1972: Imma be serious on this. if i was the president i would put out a group response to all the succession petitions and close them all down, the response would simply be a cut and paste of the Constitution making succession illegal and nothing else as it doesn't matter how nice you are these nitwits are gonna be pissed with anything short of what the president has no reason or authority to grant.


What exact part of the Constitution would you cut and past? Just curious which clause states "Blood in. Blood out. " I forget.
 
2012-11-13 10:22:13 PM  

Gosling: I blogged my response. I'll just link it because, well, first, I get hits that way and ha ha ha, and second, I spare you a tl;dr moment.


It was longer than the average Fark post but worth the read, I thought. So enjoy your hit.
 
2012-11-13 10:26:04 PM  

Daniels: I think you are vastly overestimating how much of a stomach the remaining US would have for sanctioning them. First of all, current Texans would still be citizens under pretty much every definition of the 14th Amendment so they wouldn't have to apply for visas. Secondly, Congress would be under tremendous economic pressure to add trade treaties for American companies who have clients in Texas. Yes, they would absolutely pull out military assets and contracts would have to be renegotiated. Third, as assholy as the people on Fark are, I don't think most normal people in the country would be OK with the US acting like a spurned boyfriend toward a former state.

 

I really think (and hope) that most of this "don't let the door hit you on the way out" talk is just hyperbole.

I don't think most Farkers are really as spiteful as we sometimes pretend to be.
 
2012-11-13 10:43:25 PM  
United we stand. Divided we should still stand.
 
2012-11-13 10:54:35 PM  

ciberido: sodomizer: You go be Democrats in the blue states and try out all your new theories. We'll secede, and then clean up when you implode like your inspiration, the Soviet Union.

Oh, you're still here after the election? You're a plucky fella.  Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Didn't I hear that the red states were largely a net drain on the US economy? You think Texas can make it on its own without the rest of the USA?


Interestingly, Texas is one of the few red states with a decent chance and making it as an Independent. Already a donor state, their oil and oil infrastructure (refineries) combined with large amounts of trade with Mexico would provide sizable wealth. Further the trade that currently goes THROUGH Texas would have to re-route or (presumably) pay nominal fees for transit, and that includes both International trade from the southern nations and interstate trade that is most easily routed through Texas' rail and highway system.

Problem, aside from America and Mexico being disinclined to put up with that kind of shiat, Texas' current government is RIFE with corruption and graft, and the rapidly increasing amount of pollution we'd be pumping out (yes, we, I live here for the foreseeable future) as a result of no more federal oversight would rapidly lead to serious diplomatic problems.

Also all the obvious OTHER problems of being rebel traitors to America.

I don't know, it's interesting in the same way post-apocalyptic fiction is interesting.
 
2012-11-13 11:17:21 PM  

Valiente: Dismember the Alamo.


I laughed very very hard over this. Thanks!
 
2012-11-14 12:17:37 AM  

Infernalist: Say what you like but the image of Sherman 'still' scares the hell out of the average southern 'patriot'.


Scares the fark out of me, and all of my people fought for the Union.
 
2012-11-14 12:37:04 AM  

Daniels: FormlessOne: You couldn't have drained the fun out of my satire faster if you'd actually held it underwater and throttled it while screaming in a high-pitched voice about how Kevin Spacey gets all your parts. Honestly, you didn't actually take my post as actual speculation, did you?

Not really. I just kinda want to a state to start secession proceedings just to see what happens. I think it would be amusing to watch as long as it's kept to courtrooms.


Not being a constitutional lawyer, I think it might go something like:

(1) Texas Legislature proposes a state-wide referendum to determine if Texans want independence.
(2) IF the referendum passes, the Governor would submit a formal request to the US Congress to reverse the resolution that annexed Texas.
(3) IF the House passed a resolution to de-annex Texas (with a tremendous amount of clauses outlining all the financial and relationship issues to be addressed and agreed), the request would go the Senate,
(4) IF the Senate accepted the resolution it would go to the President (with whatever amendments they wanted)
(5) IF the President signed the bill, hilarity (and a great deal of WTF do we do now) would ensue
(6) There would be a national Fark Party on Sixth Street (as Austin would be a US enclave inside Texas).

Texan by the way, pro-independence as well. So go ahead Farkers, I await your Nobel-worthy responses.

//not going to happen, but thanks for playing.
 
2012-11-14 12:39:04 AM  
Sorry I messed up the bolding. I'm from Texas. BOE doesn't allow any training in HTML.
 
2012-11-14 12:41:34 AM  

frunjer: Daniels: FormlessOne: You couldn't have drained the fun out of my satire faster if you'd actually held it underwater and throttled it while screaming in a high-pitched voice about how Kevin Spacey gets all your parts. Honestly, you didn't actually take my post as actual speculation, did you?

Not really. I just kinda want to a state to start secession proceedings just to see what happens. I think it would be amusing to watch as long as it's kept to courtrooms.

Not being a constitutional lawyer, I think it might go something like:

(1) Texas Legislature proposes a state-wide referendum to determine if Texans want independence.
(2) IF the referendum passes, the Governor would submit a formal request to the US Congress to reverse the resolution that annexed Texas.
(3) IF the House passed a resolution to de-annex Texas (with a tremendous amount of clauses outlining all the financial and relationship issues to be addressed and agreed), the request would go the Senate,
(4) IF the Senate accepted the resolution it would go to the President (with whatever amendments they wanted)
(5) IF the President signed the bill, hilarity (and a great deal of WTF do we do now) would ensue
(6) There would be a national Fark Party on Sixth Street (as Austin would be a US enclave inside Texas).

Texan by the way, pro-independence as well. So go ahead Farkers, I await your Nobel-worthy responses.

//not going to happen, but thanks for playing.


Well, for one, I would guess the annexation agreement is voided by Texas joining the CSA. Texas already left the Union once.
 
2012-11-14 12:43:43 AM  

wildcardjack: phritz: Also we should carpet bomb Dallas. Just in general, I mean, whether they secede or not.

Actually, if you could nail the freeways on the south side of downtown, where I-35E, I-30, US75 and I-45 get all jumbled because it was hip to run major freeways next to downtowns in the 1950's, we could finally get those redone in a fashion that works. Maybe get things so the through traffic goes down Loop12 to I-20 back to I-35E instead of through the downtown.

If you hit Frisco while you're at it we could use some help with our infestation of Californians.

But if you hit Lakewood or Oak Cliff we'd lose the old neighborhoods and have nothing but McMansions rebuilt in their place.


Also a drone strike on Jerry Jones and/or Tony Romo
 
2012-11-14 01:04:57 AM  

Daniels: Philip Francis Queeg: Of course all those issues go both ways. If you think Texas could go without being absolutely devastated economically, you are fooling yourselves.

A lot would depend on how coonty the US decided to be. If the US decided to apply crippling economic sanctions, which I don't know if the rest of the country would have the stomach for, it would be really hard. If they decided to just treat them like an EU-type neighbor, they'd be generally OK.

There is no reason to believe Texas could not survive as a country after a few very difficult transition years. They have oil, agriculture, infrastructure, functioning cities, and healthy shipping industry. They would have a tremendous amount of difficulty transitioning out of the federal government's budget. And then they would probably be fine.


Your forgetting that their would be a mass exodus of skilled labor, collage educated professionals, and people who other wise work and live in Texas but are not from Texas.
 
2012-11-14 02:11:20 AM  

TheBigJerk: ciberido: Didn't I hear that the red states were largely a net drain on the US economy? You think Texas can make it on its own without the rest of the USA?

Interestingly, Texas is one of the few red states with a decent chance and making it as an Independent. Already a donor state, their oil and oil infrastructure (refineries) combined with large amounts of trade with Mexico would provide sizable wealth. Further the trade that currently goes THROUGH Texas would have to re-route or (presumably) pay nominal fees for transit, and that includes both International trade from the southern nations and interstate trade that is most easily routed through Texas' rail and highway system.


Well, color me misinformed. But I learned something today, so it's not a total waste.
 
2012-11-14 02:16:34 AM  

rufus-t-firefly: The response should just be a photo of Gen. Sherman.

 
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