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(Miami Herald)   Trying to extinguish a fire with a garden hose? That's a tazin'   (miamiherald.com) divider line 283
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8555 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Nov 2012 at 10:59 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-13 01:18:56 PM  

kendelrio: spentshells: BronyMedic: I'm bowing out.

I'm tired of pointing out why what this guy did was not only a bad idea, but endangered far more than his life, and being met with what basically amounts to "WHARGARBL TASER DERP PIGS BAD"

Peace.

Seriously shooting someone with a taser was needed in this situation? You can't just jump to lets shoot em every farking time. That's the point your missing helping does not include the word shoot.

Yeah the guys not that bright so in place of pulling him away they shoot with less lethal device creating more danger. Incapacitate him next to a danger your telling him to get away from is dangerous and lazy.

I agree with you he is pretty stupid but you can't simply go around shooting people.

Your sentence stating "Incapacitate him next to a danger you're telling him to get away from is dangerous and lazy" needs to be engraved on a marble block, mounted on a sturdy handle and beaten about several people's head and shoulders.

If I were next to a cliff and was being told to back away from the cliff, would I be tased to make sure I didn't fall off the cliff?


Sure. Why not? possibly NSFW video Link
 
2012-11-13 01:19:45 PM  

BronyMedic: HotWingConspiracy: BronyMedic: Uh, submitter? FTFA, he was told by emergency responders on scene to stay the fark away from a fully involved structure fire. He continued to place himself, and others on scene who would have to help him, at risk of serious injury.

So electrocuting him was the only solution. Every tool these pigs are given make them collectively dumber.

I get it. Take your hand off your cop hate dick for a moment, and use your damn head. I'm telling you this as a Firefighter, based on what is being said in the article.

According to the article, he was in the danger zone of the fire trying to protect his freaking fence from igniting based on radiant exposure, despite repeated attempts by officers to get him to stay the fark back. With a garden hose.

Radiant heat from involved structures can overwhelm or kill someone quickly. Smoke inhalation can do the same. In addition, depending on the construction of the involved building, you have other issues such as collapse, or secondary explosion considerations from stored LNG/Propane in the direct thermal area. Why would you expect someone to wrestle with someone in immediately life threatening conditions, when you can use a taser, drop them, and drag them away far safer since they refuse to follow commands?

Cops don't have turn-out gear, dude. Most of the departments spring for 50-50 polyester mixes for uniforms since it's cheap as shiat. You do know what that fabric does when exposed to moderately high temperatures, right?


I dont question any thing you have posted.

My question is hat is safer and best for society.

Let the guy gamble with Darwin or let the cops taze people for their own safety?

Ill take my chances with Darwin thank you very much.
 
2012-11-13 01:21:26 PM  

pdee:
My question is hat is safer and best for society.



What is safer and ....



/Note to self to proof read.
 
2012-11-13 01:23:33 PM  

pdee: I dont question any thing you have posted.

My question is hat is safer and best for society.

Let the guy gamble with Darwin or let the cops taze people for their own safety?

Ill take my chances with Darwin thank you very much.


Eh. I can see that. Atleast you're honest.

However, I'd retort that our entire society as modern, first world human beings is built around ensuring that Darwin doesnt get much of a chance anymore.

Whether it's good, or bad, is another avenue of debate with unfortunate historical implications built in, for both sides.
 
2012-11-13 01:25:17 PM  

BronyMedic: Riiiiiiiight. We're all in one gigantic conspiracy to cover eachother's ass.


I was thinking more "corner store gentlemen's club", but hey, how else I have gotten to see that stupid ass pic you hotlinked? : )

BronyMedic:
Thank you. I think I've heard the stupidest thing on FARK since tabbing over to politics

Yeah, of course it is. Evar!11 Woo. *sigh* Do you know what a strawman is? Can you get yours off of my lawn?

BronyMedic: You don't have to agree with them. You don't have to be nice to them. But if you're told to GTFO of the way


Seig heil, daddy-o.

BronyMedic: And when you become beligerant afterwords, and decide to endanger the lives of cops


Did you read where I types HORSE SH*T, up there? Or did he endanger them by them having to drag his ass to the curb after he was incapacitated for watering his fence on his private property? God, how do you folks ever mange such a difficult job?

BTW, it's spelled "belligerent". It looks better on the incident report if you seem literate.

BronyMedic: You're going to be roughed up.


Well, that's a convenient ideology. I think you need a new hat, brah.
 
2012-11-13 01:30:19 PM  

bunner: I was thinking more "corner store gentlemen's club", but hey, how else I have gotten to see that stupid ass pic you hotlinked? : )


It might be funny for you to know, then, that prehospital care and incident reports often contradict what's written in cases of police wrongdoing, and are the first documentation that investigators, civil and criminal, go for.

bunner: Yeah, of course it is. Evar!11 Woo. *sigh* Do you know what a strawman is? Can you get yours off of my lawn?


Do you know what the Fallacist's Fallacy is? You should look it up. It's an interesting read.

bunner: Seig heil, daddy-o.


Case and point, actually.

bunner: Did you read where I types HORSE SH*T, up there? Or did he endanger them by them having to drag his ass to the curb after he was incapacitated for watering his fence on his private property? God, how do you folks ever mange such a difficult job?

BTW, it's spelled "belligerent". It looks better on the incident report if you seem literate.


Holy crap. It's like shooting fish in a barrel!

bunner: Do you know what a strawman is?


At any rate, I really don't feel like putting in a USB drive, and booting up chrome to do my spellchecking.

bunner:
Well, that's a convenient ideology. I think you need a new hat, brah.


Yes. Because you can't do whatever you want in society at any point and time, we're one step away from Fascists goosestepping down the Mississippi, and Swasticas flying over Washington.

And you presumed to try to lecture me about fallacies.

You're a funny libertarian guy. I'll give you that.
 
2012-11-13 01:30:53 PM  

pdee: Let the guy gamble with Darwin or let the cops taze people for their own safety?

Ill take my chances with Darwin thank you very much.


This guy being so focused on saving PROPERTY obviously didn't recognize the danger that he was in. He wasn't necessarily being stupid just ignorant of the facts around him. Basic target fixation on the problem and not seeing a bigger problem developing around you.

It is at that point the officers need to step in because he is no longer in a position to make a rational decision. One of the articles mentioned he was super agitated, angry, and screaming. So, for everyone screaming about the use of a taser, would you have rather wrestled with this guy in close proximity of a fire or just incapacitate him and pull him to safety?
 
2012-11-13 01:32:33 PM  
BRONYMEDIC: "You don't have to agree with them. You don't have to be nice to them. But if you're told to GTFO of the way and wait for the fire department because it's unsafe by a legally identified First Responder for that jurisdiction, and you refuse, yes, you are interfering with the operations of duly identified emergency responders, and refusing to follow a lawful order. And when you become beligerant afterwords, and decide to endanger the lives of cops before fire arrrives on scene because you don't want some damage to your fence, then yes. You're going to be roughed up."

Is this the justification you use when your kids need discipline?
You don't have to agree with them me. You don't have to be nice tothem me . But if you're told to GTFO of the way and wait for the fire department because it's unsafe by a legally identified First Responder for that jurisdiction, do your chores and you refuse, yes, you are interfering with the operations of duly identified emergency responders, and refusing to follow a lawful order. And when you become beligerant afterwords, and decide to endanger the lives of cops before fire arrrives on scene because you don't want some damage to your fence, not respect mah authoritie then yes. You're going to be roughed up.

FTFY
 
2012-11-13 01:34:50 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: It is at that point the officers need to step in because he is no longer in a position to make a rational decision. One of the articles mentioned he was super agitated, angry, and screaming. So, for everyone screaming about the use of a taser, would you have rather wrestled with this guy in close proximity of a fire or just incapacitate him and pull him to safety?


I'm just laughing at the fact that bunner is trying to argue the guy was not endangering anyone by being close to an involved structure without protection, and then presumes to lecture on some pseudo-libertarian social contract derp to say that anyone who would have him do otherwise is wrong.
 
2012-11-13 01:35:03 PM  

BronyMedic: And when you become beligerant afterwords, and decide to endanger the lives of cops


That never happened, the police were in no danger.
 
2012-11-13 01:35:32 PM  
Also, do you know how freaking hard that was to HTML up on a freaking iPhone???????

/little respect???
 
2012-11-13 01:40:46 PM  

BronyMedic:
Yes. Because you can't do whatever you want in society at any point and time, we're one step away from Fascists goosestepping down the Mississippi, and Swastickas flying over Washington.


Well, then we're safe as milk because apparently, anybody with a badge and a public payroll check, can.

And you presumed to try to lecture me about fallacies.

I totally missed that.

You're a funny libertarian guy. I'll give you that.

You also need a new label maker. This one spits out baseless assumptions, so far.

BronyMedic: Holy crap. It's like shooting fish in a barrel!


Actually, that's not as easy as it looks. That's one of those blanket assumption based old saws that don't have a lot of physics behind them.

BronyMedic: bunner: Do you know what a strawman is?


OK, I'll go with "no." The strawman is when you attributed this statement

BronyMedic: Riiiiiiiight. We're all in one gigantic conspiracy to cover eachother's ass.


to me and then refuted it ( knocked the strawman down) here.

BronyMedic: Thank you. I think I've heard the stupidest thing on FARK since tabbing over to politics


Get it?

It's not that you're a firefighter. It's not that you're an ostensible authority figure. I just have a tendency to get ass chapped when people use their job description to defend jerks.

Stay safe out there.
 
2012-11-13 01:41:10 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: BronyMedic: And when you become beligerant afterwords, and decide to endanger the lives of cops

That never happened, the police were in no danger.


You know why? They used less than lethal force to subdue and remove him from the area. That is the only reason they were not in danger. Had he succumbed to the smoke that he was later treated for, without fire on scene, who would have rescued him? Yeah those police officers that are not trained nor equipped to do so.
 
2012-11-13 01:42:10 PM  

BronyMedic: derp


That particular made up word is a credibility crippler on par with "libtard", btw.
 
2012-11-13 01:43:22 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: They used less than lethal force to subdue and remove him from the area. That is the only reason they were not in danger.


Why? Was he hooking the hose up to a 100 gal. drum of 96 no lead and shouting "JIHAD!"?
 
2012-11-13 01:44:46 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: BronyMedic: And when you become beligerant afterwords, and decide to endanger the lives of cops

That never happened, the police were in no danger.


If they were trying to get the guy out of the Thermal Exposure of an involved structure, as the article infers, yes they were. Or do you not consider heat and smoke a danger to life and safety? Because OSHA and the NFPA might have a problem with that.

kendelrio: Is this the justification you use when your kids need discipline?


No. It's a salient point: if you want to change the law, you don't do it by arguing with the people who have come to enforce it, and then forcing them to risk their lives to protect you from your own stupidity.
 
2012-11-13 01:47:31 PM  
What law was this gentleman breaking in spraying a hose at a fire? Is my own personel safety on my own property (or residence) really the domain of law enfforcement? There are laws on the books about this sort of thing?

I'm not really sure that either the police or fire department has any legal right or obligation to insist that the individual involved cease his actions.

I can only hope that the police officer involved is charged with assult. Sounds like the recipient of the tasering is gearing up for a lawsuit, and rightly so. Hope he wins it.

I'm fairly certain that given a similiar situation I would have behaved as did the guy trying to fight the fire.
 
2012-11-13 01:50:59 PM  

bunner: Actually, that's not as easy as it looks. That's one of those blanket assumption based old saws that don't have a lot of physics behind them.


It's quite easy. You just use explosive ammunition. No kill like overkill.

bunner: It's not that you're a firefighter. It's not that you're an ostensible authority figure. I just have a tendency to get ass chapped when people use their job description to defend jerks.


Terrific. Good for you. Except that you implicitly inferred I would cover up the abuse of a "cripple" (Which is a wonderfully ableistic word to use for someone who's disabled, by the way. congrats on that moral high ground.) because the person who did it wore a badge.

That goes beyond me pointing out that you MIGHT be wrong about what you're saying, and you taking "chapped ass" to it. That's not even trolling. That's a pretty vile personal attack against someone you have no knowledge about.

bunner: I totally missed that.


I bet you also missed the point about the Fallacist's Fallacy, as well. Just because a statement can be attributed to a fallacy, does not make it immediately discountable.

You said something incredibly vile and stupid about me. I responded by pointing out it was such.
 
2012-11-13 01:54:03 PM  
What law was this gentleman breaking in spraying a hose at a fire? Is my own personel safety on my own property (or residence) really the domain of law enfforcement? There are laws on the books about this sort of thing?

I'm not really sure that either the police or fire department has any legal right or obligation to insist that the individual involved cease his actions.

I can only hope that the police officer involved is charged with assult. Sounds like the recipient of the tasering is gearing up for a lawsuit, and rightly so. Hope he wins it.

I'm fairly certain that given a similiar situation I would have behaved as did the guy trying to fight the fire. In fact at the first attempt of law enforcement officers to prevent me from fighting the fire I would have pointed out to them that they are trespassing on private property and have asked them to leave.
 
2012-11-13 01:56:26 PM  
I gotta say the posts from some first responders in this thread make me suddenly terrified for my freedoms and the domicile I once felt secure that my tax dollars helped to make safe. Authority is great and all, but don't let it go to your head and become a jerk. Clearly there are some major ego issues going on.
 
2012-11-13 01:57:01 PM  

Scarlioni: There are laws on the books about this sort of thing?


Yes. The specific wording varies from state by state. But it usually goes along the lines of refusing to follow a lawful order from a duly identified emergency responder, who is working an active emergency scene at the time. The laws are different from state by state depending on LEO's stupidity in the past. Tennessee had to make it a crime, for example, for a Law Enforcement officer to interfere with a Firefighter or EMT who was performing fireground suppression or patient care because they would do so regularly on the highways/interstate to get the roads open.

Scarlioni: I'm not really sure that either the police or fire department has any legal right or obligation to insist that the individual involved cease his actions.


If they feel you're interfering with fireground operations, endangering your life or the lives of others involved, or generally being a nuscence to operations, yes. They have every legal right to escort you behind the tape or to a safety area.

To use another unrelated example, the police have legal authority to enact a mandatory evacuation of an area surrounding an involved propane tank, even if you decide to be bootstrappy and use your own idealism to keep the tank from BLEVEing and killing anything alive in a 15-30x volume radius around that thing.
 
2012-11-13 02:00:02 PM  

asmodeusazarak: I gotta say the posts from some first responders in this thread make me suddenly terrified for my freedoms and the domicile I once felt secure that my tax dollars helped to make safe. Authority is great and all, but don't let it go to your head and become a jerk. Clearly there are some major ego issues going on.


Please don't get me wrong. If more information comes out where these guys walked up to the guy and just shocked him, when he was not doing what's inferred in the article, then by all means. I hope he sues the shiat out of them and wins.

I'm actually quite a passive, pleasent person in real life. There are several FARKers on here that know me more personally than my occasional rantings.

That said. When you endanger my life, or my partner's life due to stupidity, that niceness tends to disappear until such time as it is warrented again. Usually when that endangerment has passed.
 
2012-11-13 02:00:16 PM  
(Is this Weeners jump to Godwin's Law ?)

In the 1930's the cops who tasered this guy would have been the first to sign up with the SS. Not trying to be funny/ironic/hyperbolic/etc - the same mindset that put Jews in gas chambers, tasers people for no reason.
 
2012-11-13 02:04:48 PM  

BronyMedic: "cripple" (Which is a wonderfully ableistic word to use for someone who's disabled, by the way. congrats on that moral high ground.)


Anybody who thinks making up PC aphorisms makes them pious is neither honest nor trustworthy, but I can see how easy it is to go along with all the new wives tales. I've talked to people in wheelchairs. they have asserted quite vehemently that they are not "otherwise abled" but crippled. It's not like the N word or c*nt. honest.

And as far as saying something vile about you, what am *I* to assume, as you might ask, when confronted with somebody throwing up buzzword nomenclature in the face of somebody having several of their constitutionally guaranteed freedoms and choices shoved up their ass to the tune of a few thousand volts because it's "convenient"?

I think that whole thing stinks and defending it as a matter of policy stinks and if that offends, well, take a number because self-serving public servants who cattle prod private citizens who are on their private property, using their available resources to keep their home from catching fire at, AFAICT, no risk to ANYbody but themselves offends the living sh*t out of me.

There IS an implied moral contact to public service and these guys wiped their asses with it. That's offensive.
 
2012-11-13 02:16:17 PM  

bunner: Anybody who thinks making up PC aphorisms makes them pious is neither honest nor trustworthy, but I can see how easy it is to go along with all the new wives tales. I've talked to people in wheelchairs. they have asserted quite vehemently that they are not "otherwise abled" but crippled. It's not like the N word or c*nt. honest.


Keep telling yourself that. People who feel marginalized don't like being in the limelight. Just be sure you keep putting new trash in your soapbox so it doesn't collapse.

bunner: And as far as saying something vile about you, what am *I* to assume, as you might ask, when confronted with somebody throwing up buzzword nomenclature in the face of somebody having several of their constitutionally guaranteed freedoms and choices shoved up their ass to the tune of a few thousand volts because it's "convenient"?


So you go from debating escalation of force based on the limited information presented in the article and on another one mentioned where the individual involved had been repeatedly told to let the fire department handle it, and that his life and health was more important than a fence (let insurance cover it may be cold, but property is not worth your life. Sorry. Risk little to save little, lot to save lot.), and where he repeatedly refused a lawful order to get away from the thermal exposure, and then implicitly state I would cover up police brutality because I disagreed with you?

That is the definition of stupidity - there is no logic in that statement. And yes. It is a vile personal attack.

And it's not a matter of conveinence. It's a matter of what was safest for all involved. Which might not have been to wrestle with a man who had property tunnel vision over a fence in the face of smoke and thermal exposure from an involved structure.

bunner: I think that whole thing stinks and defending it as a matter of policy stinks and if that offends, well, take a number because self-serving public servants who cattle prod private citizens who are on their private property, using their available resources to keep their home from catching fire at, AFAICT, no risk to ANYbody but themselves offends the living sh*t out of me.

There IS an implied moral contact to public service and these guys wiped their asses with it. That's offensive.


Yeah. And that's the part you don't understand. It's not just "at no risk to anyone but themselves". At that point, it becomes a matter of life safety over property. And the Fire Department, EMS, and Police must dedicate their resources to protecting the one idiot with a hose spraying a thermally exposed fence because he has tunnel vision versus extenguishing an involved structure, saving what they can, and preventing spread of the fire to other properties and mitigating other hazards.

Guess what: No one becomes a public servant to die or be injured in the line of duty. No one wants to be a hero. They just want to go home at the end of the day knowing they did the best they could for everone involved. And they take necessary steps to protect themselves, their partners, the general public, and the victims currently in need of aid IN THAT ORDER for a very good reason.
 
2012-11-13 02:23:27 PM  

BronyMedic: Uh, submitter? FTFA, he was told by emergency responders on scene to stay the fark away from a fully involved structure fire. He continued to place himself, and others on scene who would have to help him, at risk of serious injury.


So, to save him from the obviously very dangerous situation they decided to render him immobile and dazed in the very spot he was standing.

This is moronic. Defend the idea that he needed to get the fark out of there? Fine. But this is stupid.
 
2012-11-13 02:23:56 PM  

BronyMedic: Uh, submitter? FTFA, he was told by emergency responders on scene to stay the fark away from a fully involved structure fire. He continued to place himself, and others on scene who would have to help him, at risk of serious injury.

A garden hose ain't going to do shiat to protect an exposure, and from the range you can hit it with one, you're going to get burned without protective gear - or worse, you're either going to be caught in a flashover, or hit with smoke in the face when you take a breath.

There's a reason we wear this when we fight fires, even small ones.



There's also a reason we use these:



At 125-150 PSI pumping 150 - 300 GPM, versus this:



Which is pretty much only good for putting out a small grass fire.


If his neighbor's house was on fire and he was spraying his fence with his hose, doesn't that mean he was farther away from the fire than the fence, with the fence also acting as a sort of heat shield? And I don't know about him, but when I've tried to get in near fires and it got too hot, I backed away. I'm guessing he could gauge whether he felt safe enough to continue, and would have moved away if he thought he was risking his personal safety over his property.
 
2012-11-13 02:35:33 PM  

I_Hate_Iowa: If his neighbor's house was on fire and he was spraying his fence with his hose, doesn't that mean he was farther away from the fire than the fence, with the fence also acting as a sort of heat shield? And I don't know about him, but when I've tried to get in near fires and it got too hot, I backed away. I'm guessing he could gauge whether he felt safe enough to continue, and would have moved away if he thought he was risking his personal safety over his property.


This article doesn't give enough information, to be honest. It'd be nice to know the spacing of the houses and fence, and the general design of the area. Since he was treated for smoke inhalation, we can safely assume that he was close enough to inhale nasty things, which is too close without protective gear. (House fire smoke is very, very nasty.)

However, the portion I've bolded is because I wanted to point out a situation called "Tunnel Vision". It's what happens when you focus on the immediate task infront of you, without worrying about the grand picture of things. It kills people, even trained responders who are taught to recognize when it's occuring and to "back down" psychologically from it and assess the whole picture.

There are cases of people who were so focused on defending a part of their property that they never noticed the rest was fully engulphed in flames.
 
2012-11-13 02:36:36 PM  

I_Hate_Iowa: If his neighbor's house was on fire and he was spraying his fence with his hose, doesn't that mean he was farther away from the fire than the fence, with the fence also acting as a sort of heat shield? And I don't know about him, but when I've tried to get in near fires and it got too hot, I backed away. I'm guessing he could gauge whether he felt safe enough to continue, and would have moved away if he thought he was risking his personal safety over his property


He ended up being taken to the hospital and treated for smoke inhalation so no it does not appear as though he was aware or cared about the risks to himself.
 
2012-11-13 02:38:23 PM  

BronyMedic: Keep telling yourself that. People who feel marginalized don't like being in the limelight. Just be sure you keep putting new trash in your soapbox so it doesn't collapse.


BronyMedic: And yes. It is a vile personal attack.


Unlike all this crap you just typed, eh, Diogenes?

BronyMedic: Yeah. And that's the part you don't understand. It's not just "at no risk to anyone but themselves". At that point, it becomes a matter of life safety over property. And the Fire Department, EMS, and Police must dedicate their resources to protecting the one idiot with a hose spraying a thermally exposed fence because he has tunnel vision versus exteinguishing an involved structure


Yeah, about that. I bet that's what the reports gonna say, but I don't see it and frankly, you can shove your clearance counter, "better man than you" pose up your ass until the personal attack hypocrisy stops dripping off your posts like so much hose water.

Seriously.

I hope to God I don't grow up to know everything about everything, like you. It mus be a terrible burden to hold the absolute high ground on everything. *snort*
 
2012-11-13 02:39:22 PM  

BronyMedic: I_Hate_Iowa: If his neighbor's house was on fire and he was spraying his fence with his hose, doesn't that mean he was farther away from the fire than the fence, with the fence also acting as a sort of heat shield? And I don't know about him, but when I've tried to get in near fires and it got too hot, I backed away. I'm guessing he could gauge whether he felt safe enough to continue, and would have moved away if he thought he was risking his personal safety over his property.

This article doesn't give enough information, to be honest. It'd be nice to know the spacing of the houses and fence, and the general design of the area. Since he was treated for smoke inhalation, we can safely assume that he was close enough to inhale nasty things, which is too close without protective gear. (House fire smoke is very, very nasty.)

However, the portion I've bolded is because I wanted to point out a situation called "Tunnel Vision". It's what happens when you focus on the immediate task infront of you, without worrying about the grand picture of things. It kills people, even trained responders who are taught to recognize when it's occuring and to "back down" psychologically from it and assess the whole picture.

There are cases of people who were so focused on defending a part of their property that they never noticed the rest was fully engulphed in flames.


www.baynews9.com 

The proximity of the two houses
 
2012-11-13 02:40:46 PM  

BronyMedic: I_Hate_Iowa: If his neighbor's house was on fire and he was spraying his fence with his hose, doesn't that mean he was farther away from the fire than the fence, with the fence also acting as a sort of heat shield? And I don't know about him, but when I've tried to get in near fires and it got too hot, I backed away. I'm guessing he could gauge whether he felt safe enough to continue, and would have moved away if he thought he was risking his personal safety over his property.

This article doesn't give enough information, to be honest. It'd be nice to know the spacing of the houses and fence, and the general design of the area. Since he was treated for smoke inhalation, we can safely assume that he was close enough to inhale nasty things, which is too close without protective gear. (House fire smoke is very, very nasty.)

However, the portion I've bolded is because I wanted to point out a situation called "Tunnel Vision". It's what happens when you focus on the immediate task infront of you, without worrying about the grand picture of things. It kills people, even trained responders who are taught to recognize when it's occuring and to "back down" psychologically from it and assess the whole picture.

There are cases of people who were so focused on defending a part of their property that they never noticed the rest was fully engulphed in flames.


www.gardenhosebestprice.com
 
2012-11-13 02:43:08 PM  

BronyMedic: I_Hate_Iowa: If his neighbor's house was on fire and he was spraying his fence with his hose, doesn't that mean he was farther away from the fire than the fence, with the fence also acting as a sort of heat shield? And I don't know about him, but when I've tried to get in near fires and it got too hot, I backed away. I'm guessing he could gauge whether he felt safe enough to continue, and would have moved away if he thought he was risking his personal safety over his property.

This article doesn't give enough information, to be honest. It'd be nice to know the spacing of the houses and fence, and the general design of the area. Since he was treated for smoke inhalation, we can safely assume that he was close enough to inhale nasty things, which is too close without protective gear. (House fire smoke is very, very nasty.)

However, the portion I've bolded is because I wanted to point out a situation called "Tunnel Vision". It's what happens when you focus on the immediate task infront of you, without worrying about the grand picture of things. It kills people, even trained responders who are taught to recognize when it's occuring and to "back down" psychologically from it and assess the whole picture.

There are cases of people who were so focused on defending a part of their property that they never noticed the rest was fully engulphed in flames.

"After they tased me, about three of them picked me up and brought me out here and planted me on my face and handcuffed me," Jensen said.

From there, he was placed in a squad car, where he said he started having breathing problems.

"I just had surgery a couple of weeks prior. I was begging them for oxygen," Jensen said.


No breathing problems before having his entire body shocked. Can't say I'm surprised with the aftermath. Shortness of breath is one symptom of being tazed.

Read more: http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/taser-victim-claims-police-overr eacted#ixzz2C7hvJgdY
 
2012-11-13 02:45:01 PM  

bunner: Unlike all this crap you just typed, eh, Diogenes?


Really? You haven't been defending accusing me of being willing to cover up police brutality of a "cripple", in your own words because I disagree with your mentality of being able to do what ever the fark you want without regard for the possible consequences to the life and property of others?

bunner: Yeah, about that. I bet that's what the reports gonna say, but I don't see it and frankly, you can shove your clearance counter, "better man than you" pose up your ass until the personal attack hypocrisy stops dripping off your posts like so much hose water.


Please point out why you defending ableism as not being "like racism or sexism" and that you have "disabled friends who say it's okay" is personal attack hypocrisy? I haven't accused you of anything you haven't demonstrated in your text. Unlike accusing me of being willing and complacent in covering up police brutality against the disabled.

Be proud of your text, Sir. Don't shy away from accepting what you've demonstrated to others.

bunner: I hope to God I don't grow up to know everything about everything, like you. It mus be a terrible burden to hold the absolute high ground on everything.


This coming from a poster who for the past 30 or so posts has been arguing theoreticals, strawman "social contract violations which put no one at risk other than the person involved", and has made some pretty vile accusations and personal attacks against me?

No danger from an exposure. None. What-so-ever. No risk to anyone else. Just look at how harmless thermal exposures are.

It's not "knowing everything" to point out that you're argung a topic you know nothing about from theoreticals and information not garnered from the article or information on the subject that has been found through outside research.
 
2012-11-13 02:45:07 PM  

redmid17: "I just had surgery a couple of weeks prior. I was begging them for oxygen," Jensen said.


Obviously, this man is a threat to public sector safety -and- a whiner.
 
2012-11-13 02:46:03 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: The proximity of the two houses


Oh, Bunner? I expect a goddamn apology from you. Right now.
 
2012-11-13 02:46:23 PM  

BronyMedic: Uh, submitter? FTFA, he was told by emergency responders on scene to stay the fark away from a fully involved structure fire. He continued to place himself, and others on scene who would have to help him, at risk of serious injury.


If there is anything that annoys the sh*t out of me more than officious gits who scream at you that you should do nothing because "you haven't had the training", its officious gits who scream at you that only they can function because "we've had the training" (even if they haven't shown up, yet). All y'all git over yourselves and let the rest of us be. It doesn't take "the training" to spray water on your grass, even with a bunch of cops standing around yelling at you.
 
2012-11-13 02:48:37 PM  

This About That: BronyMedic: Uh, submitter? FTFA, he was told by emergency responders on scene to stay the fark away from a fully involved structure fire. He continued to place himself, and others on scene who would have to help him, at risk of serious injury.

If there is anything that annoys the sh*t out of me more than officious gits who scream at you that you should do nothing because "you haven't had the training", its officious gits who scream at you that only they can function because "we've had the training" (even if they haven't shown up, yet). All y'all git over yourselves and let the rest of us be. It doesn't take "the training" to spray water on your grass, even with a bunch of cops standing around yelling at you.


www.baynews9.com

The proximity of the two houses.

Photo's worth a thousand words.
 
2012-11-13 02:51:48 PM  

BronyMedic: Please point out why you defending ableism as not being "like racism or sexism"


Please take your ad hominem fandango over to the help desk for an "on topic" chit or stop pestering me. Thanks for following the rules, (you'e big on rules, ain'tcha?) regarding posting, here. "Abelism". Jesus, man, put the kool aid down. Or, you know, don't. But, sorry "I AM TEH PROFESSIONAL AND YOU KNOW NOTHING" rap, festooned with 8th grade sneering isn't as unimpeachable as it seems when you type it. You say he was about to get several LEOs killed dead, I say he was watering his fence. Physics. They really DO have vernacular handles, otherwise we'd have gone tits up with the dinosaurs.
 
2012-11-13 02:53:18 PM  

BronyMedic: SirDigbyChickenCaesar: The proximity of the two houses

Oh, Bunner? I expect a goddamn apology from you. Right now.


Coincidences abound.

They helped nobody.

They protected nobody.

They tripped over their dicks. Then, thankfully, your crew showed up.
 
2012-11-13 02:53:32 PM  
I have zero respect for the police. I do however fear them. Recently in my home town we had two CHP officers follow a drunk female home and allegedly rape her, they have both resigned and charges are pending.
 
2012-11-13 02:55:18 PM  

MycroftHolmes: HotWingConspiracy: BronyMedic: Uh, submitter? FTFA, he was told by emergency responders on scene to stay the fark away from a fully involved structure fire. He continued to place himself, and others on scene who would have to help him, at risk of serious injury.

So electrocuting him was the only solution. Every tool these pigs are given make them collectively dumber.

Just trying to figure this out. He was already told to stay away from the danger zone. Are you arguing that
1) Force was not necesary, he should have been allowed to continue to put himself at risk, even knowing that his actions would put rescuers at risk as well?
2) Force was justified, but it should not have been a taser?

I honestly don't understand your stance, other than 'pigs r dum'


I believe force was needed. However, a taser is *supposed* to be a weapon of last resort, just like a gun.

Appropriate use of force would have been to tackle him from behind. but that would require the officers to actually be physically fit. And they might get a bruise or scratch, or get dirt on their uniforms, or worse yet, break a sweat.

I am sorry, but unarmed civilians who are not physically resisting do *NOT* need to be tased. EVER.
 
2012-11-13 02:55:41 PM  

BronyMedic: This About That: BronyMedic: Uh, submitter? FTFA, he was told by emergency responders on scene to stay the fark away from a fully involved structure fire. He continued to place himself, and others on scene who would have to help him, at risk of serious injury.

If there is anything that annoys the sh*t out of me more than officious gits who scream at you that you should do nothing because "you haven't had the training", its officious gits who scream at you that only they can function because "we've had the training" (even if they haven't shown up, yet). All y'all git over yourselves and let the rest of us be. It doesn't take "the training" to spray water on your grass, even with a bunch of cops standing around yelling at you.

[www.baynews9.com image 720x480]

The proximity of the two houses.

Photo's worth a thousand words.


From the same article, it doesn't look like the two houses side by side were the ones in the fire zone:

assets.nydailynews.com
 
2012-11-13 02:57:00 PM  
to everyone that's arguing the police should've left the guy alone and risk his life, suicide is still a punishable crime in the united states. also, the police were in a damn if do and damn if you don't situation from a pr standpoint, and tasering a man to keep him from possibly killing himself and others is easier to handle than "police let idiot go kill himself, why didn't they restrain him?!" derp.
 
2012-11-13 02:57:49 PM  

Psycoholic_Slag: I have zero respect for the police. I do however fear them. Recently in my home town we had two CHP officers follow a drunk female home and allegedly rape her, they have both resigned and charges are pending.


Put them in Genpop and let it slip what they were. Self-resolving situation.

bunner: You say he was about to get several LEOs killed dead, I say he was watering his fence.


bunner:
Coincidences abound. They helped nobody. They protected nobody. They tripped over their dicks. Then, thankfully, your crew showed up.


Dunning-Kruger is Strong with You. I salute your commitment, Sir. You are a shining example for every FARKer to Aspire to. Even when presented with photographic evidence, you continue to hold your position.

www.baynews9.com

Mind the gap now.
 
2012-11-13 03:00:33 PM  
NOBODY, ASIDE FROM PERHAPS THE PERSON HOLDING THOSE AND UNDER THE MOST UNFORESEEN DEVELOPMENTS IMAGINABLE, IS GOING TO GET KILLED BY SOMEBODY HOSING DOWN A FENCE NEXT TO A HOUSE ON FIRE. Stop that.
 
2012-11-13 03:01:27 PM  
Those = the hose. I can write, I can't type for toffee.
 
2012-11-13 03:01:33 PM  

BronyMedic: Dunning-Kruger is Strong with You. I salute your commitment, Sir. You are a shining example for every FARKer to Aspire to. Even when presented with photographic evidence, you continue to hold your position.



Mind the gap now.


Also look at the metal chainlink fence, which is not something that is going to be catching on fire or something that a homeowner is going to be worried about. The other picture in the article shows smoke coming up from behind the house.
 
2012-11-13 03:01:47 PM  

redmid17: From the same article, it doesn't look like the two houses side by side were the ones in the fire zone


I would say the fire was to the rear of the pink house. Wife said they were having a cookout. Look at the first pic and the roof of the pink house is now destroyed.
 
2012-11-13 03:02:05 PM  

redmid17: From the same article, it doesn't look like the two houses side by side were the ones in the fire zone:


Looks like it was taken in the opposite back yard from his house.

As in:

Photographer---------TazedGuysHouse---------HouseOnFire.

I
 
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