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(Apple Insider)   Apple patents time machine; Woz to return to 1974, give Bill Gates atomic wedgie   (appleinsider.com) divider line 121
    More: Obvious, gates, Mac OS, first-to-file, rewriting, word processors, chronologies, OS X, plain  
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10446 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Nov 2012 at 12:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-13 09:46:21 AM
So they patented an automatic "Save As" function?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-13 09:46:26 AM
It reads like a clumsier version of VMS file version numbers. Or maybe the archival filesystem from Plan 9, which was for version control an inferior alternative to the Apollo filesystem that later became ClearCase.
 
2012-11-13 09:50:27 AM
Safety not guaranteed.
 
2012-11-13 10:08:05 AM

ZAZ: It reads like a clumsier version of VMS file version numbers.


Unpossible. VMS was the height, the pinnacle, of clumsiness. Nothing could come close, let alone exceed it.

/unless you went on to use AOS/VS II, like I did
 
2012-11-13 10:16:48 AM

ZAZ: It reads like a clumsier version of VMS file version numbers


Wow that takes me back. Took assembly in college on a VAX.
 
2012-11-13 12:47:41 PM
GOTTA GO BACK IN TIIIIIIIIIIME

geektyrant.com
 
2012-11-13 12:48:01 PM
The laws of physics states that a time machine cannot go back in time any further than the date it was turned on.
 
2012-11-13 12:48:52 PM
GOD DAMMIT THERE IS NOTHING INNOVATIVE HERE.

F*ck Apple and anyone who defends this shiat.
 
2012-11-13 12:49:20 PM
Time Machine is pretty great. Not only does it continually back your computer, you can go back in time to get previous versions of files. And it's wireless. When I get home from work, my laptop recognizes my home network and launches a TM back up of all that has changed since I left that morning.
 
2012-11-13 12:50:21 PM

basemetal: Safety not guaranteed.


Have you done this before? How many times?
 
2012-11-13 12:51:10 PM
1. A method comprising: initiating a backup operation of data including determining that a plurality of items to be included in the backup operation are related items, using one or more processors, where related items are items that require a particular relationship between each other in order to execute a function; monitoring the plurality of related items for modifications occurring to one or more items of the plurality of related items during the backup operation including receiving notification of file system changes and determining whether a file system change occurred to one or more items of the plurality of related items; completing the backup operation including backing up the modified one or more related items; and when a modification occurred to one or more related items, the completing the backup operation includes performing a second backup operation for the one or more modified items of the plurality of related items, wherein the second backup operation includes replacing the modified one or more related items backed up during the backup operation with versions of the modified one or more related items that existed when the backup operation was initiated.

The claim, for those too lazy to look it up and assume an article summarizing the summary is whats patented.
 
2012-11-13 12:51:18 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: GOD DAMMIT THERE IS NOTHING INNOVATIVE HERE.


[Citation needed]

F*ck Apple and anyone who defends this shiat.

Because angry swears and yelling are much more persuasive, amirite?
 
2012-11-13 12:52:33 PM

hammer85: 1. A method comprising:
     initiating a backup operation of data including determining that a plurality of items to be included in the backup operation are related items, using one or more processors, where related items are items that require a particular relationship between each other in order to execute a function;
     monitoring the plurality of related items for modifications occurring to one or more items of the plurality of related items during the backup operation including receiving notification of file system changes and determining whether a file system change occurred to one or more items of the plurality of related items;
     completing the backup operation including backing up the modified one or more related items; and
     when a modification occurred to one or more related items, the completing the backup operation includes performing a second backup operation for the one or more modified items of the plurality of related items, wherein the second backup operation includes replacing the modified one or more related items backed up during the backup operation with versions of the modified one or more related items that existed when the backup operation was initiated.


More readable.
 
2012-11-13 12:52:47 PM
Woz is too nice to give wedgies. He'd most likely just run up Bill's long distance phone costs.
 
2012-11-13 12:54:23 PM
Interestingly, while the Time Machine moniker was not yet introduced to the public at the time of the patent's filing, the invention does use the term "time machine" when it refers to the consistent backup system.

Not that interesting, actually.
 
2012-11-13 12:54:30 PM
Oh good, I'll be ready for the US Festival in a few years.
 
2012-11-13 12:56:34 PM
Going back in time to give Bill Gates an atomic wedgie sounds like a perfectly cromulent use of a time machine to me. Not an abuse of great power at all. A very responsible use of great power, in fact. Superman probably wishes he had thought of it first.

Personally, I'd go back and get my name on Richard Nixon's Enemies List. That's on my Time Machine Bucket List. The greatest honour, if not of all history, at least of 1968-1974, well, in the USA perhaps.

I'd also like to have the patent on the paperclip. Think of it. A royalty on every paperclip used in history. There's no telling what introducing the paperclip to Augustan England or pre-Revolutionary France might accomplish. Valuable papers would be kept organized and safe from blowing away all through history if you introduced it early enough.

What would Rome have become with the paper clip? Would Greek democracy have survived much longer if they could clip pieces of paper together. I was thinking it might be used for holding votes together but that's a crazy idea. Voting with pieces of paper! You'd have to be insane. Bits of broken pottery, that's the ticket! You can't forge a piece of broken pottery. If the pieces don't fit, they didn't come from the same urn.
 
2012-11-13 12:56:35 PM

StrikitRich: Woz is too nice to give wedgies. He'd most likely just run up Bill's long distance phone costs.


He'd probably also avoid Steve Jobs after the shiat he did to the Woz
 
2012-11-13 12:56:38 PM
1. Go back in time.
2. Tell Steve Jobs that holistic medicine doesn't work
 
2012-11-13 12:57:01 PM
Watch out H.G. Wells... You are now in Apples sights to be suited for patent infringement.
 
2012-11-13 12:57:17 PM
Actually, that claim's kinda quirky. Do a backup operation, and if you notice that one of the items changes during backup, you then do a second backup operation replacing the changed item with a previous version. Almost like backup a file; notice a change occurred to a file during back; and roll back the backup for that second file.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-13 12:57:26 PM
determining that a plurality of items to be included in the backup operation are related items

So it's different from VMS (1970s) because VMS implicitly assumes your entire document is in one file.
 
2012-11-13 12:58:46 PM
Time magazine has been by Apple lawyers, along with Rage Against the Machine.

My alarm clock is called "Time Machine" better scratch that out before the boys in shiny white plastic come knocking.
 
2012-11-13 12:59:23 PM
1.- Go back in time to 1999
2.- Tell myself to get off your farking ass and study you lazy piece of shiat!
3.- Also, maybe prevent 9/11, just avoid all the fun stuff that's going on right now
 
2012-11-13 01:02:34 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: GOD DAMMIT THERE IS NOTHING INNOVATIVE HERE.

F*ck Apple and anyone who defends this shiat.


Ah, Trolly, calm down now. And when you do, come back and tell us what equivalent Windows has? (Let's make it easier for you: nothing). Is Time Machine unique? No. Is it a lifesaver? You bet it is. It's saved my butt a couple of times.
 
2012-11-13 01:03:20 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: GOD DAMMIT THERE IS NOTHING INNOVATIVE HERE.

F*ck Apple and anyone who defends this shiat.


While I agree with you in principle, the truth is there is nothing out there today like the Time Machine on apple's OSXes.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-13 01:04:21 PM
The grouped file part is functionally the same as a cron job that applies a branch tag each night, which is 1980s rather than 1970s technology. Perhaps it is legally considered "innovative" because the new method has round corners. Definitely less sharp edges for users to hurt themselves with.

Cron+SCCS tag might even be 1970s, but you need the versioning filesystem to make it work like time machine. That's late 1980s or early 1990s (Apollo, ClearCase, Plan 9).

At a previous job one of the rules the boss had for picking a version control system was atomic updates. If it allowed two parts of the "same" thing to be seen with inconsistent versions, he wouldn't let us use it.
 
2012-11-13 01:04:56 PM

Theaetetus: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: GOD DAMMIT THERE IS NOTHING INNOVATIVE HERE.

[Citation needed]

F*ck Apple and anyone who defends this shiat.

Because angry swears and yelling are much more persuasive, amirite?


Welcome to Fark.tm

Anyone who has any level of formal computer experience beyond that of a layman can see it for what it is.

Besides, picking each of these ridiculous things apart is akin to trying to fight the political tactic of telling so many lies that your opponent can't possibly keep up.

The system as a whole is broken.

hammer85: 1. A method comprising: initiating a backup operation of data including determining that a plurality of items to be included in the backup operation are related items, using one or more processors, where related items are items that require a particular relationship between each other in order to execute a function; monitoring the plurality of related items for modifications occurring to one or more items of the plurality of related items during the backup operation including receiving notification of file system changes and determining whether a file system change occurred to one or more items of the plurality of related items; completing the backup operation including backing up the modified one or more related items; and when a modification occurred to one or more related items, the completing the backup operation includes performing a second backup operation for the one or more modified items of the plurality of related items, wherein the second backup operation includes replacing the modified one or more related items backed up during the backup operation with versions of the modified one or more related items that existed when the backup operation was initiated.

The claim, for those too lazy to look it up and assume an article summarizing the summary is whats patented.


Point out the innovative part. At the end of the day, it's "backing up what needs backing up".
 
2012-11-13 01:05:32 PM

JackieRabbit: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: GOD DAMMIT THERE IS NOTHING INNOVATIVE HERE.

F*ck Apple and anyone who defends this shiat.

Ah, Trolly, calm down now. And when you do, come back and tell us what equivalent Windows has? (Let's make it easier for you: nothing). Is Time Machine unique? No. Is it a lifesaver? You bet it is. It's saved my butt a couple of times.


I've got a sizable media library that I used to use RAID mirrored drives for, but now I just have a main drive and a time machine backup... it's easier to rebuild, and if a file gets corrupted but the drive doesn't crash, such corruption isn't mirrored and I can just roll back to the pre-corrupted version.
 
2012-11-13 01:05:49 PM
Is this worth patenting? Unless you're patenting the *idea* of incremental backups, which I think would be a pretty tough sell, it just seems like a case where you say, "Oh, that method is patented? We'll do it this way instead", for a million different varieties of "this".
 
2012-11-13 01:06:49 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Anyone who has any level of formal computer experience beyond that of a layman can see it for what it is.


SacriliciousBeerSwiller: At the end of the day, it's "backing up what needs backing up".


So, since that's not what it is, you don't have any level of formal computer experience beyond that of a layman? Fair enough, and farky'd as such.
 
2012-11-13 01:07:18 PM
System Restore Time Machine pat. pend. = Profit
 
2012-11-13 01:08:20 PM
morphemedictionary.com

/oblig
 
2012-11-13 01:08:23 PM
Hold on, I forgot the crystals.
 
2012-11-13 01:09:46 PM

you have pee hands: Is this worth patenting? Unless you're patenting the *idea* of incremental backups, which I think would be a pretty tough sell, it just seems like a case where you say, "Oh, that method is patented? We'll do it this way instead", for a million different varieties of "this".


The patent (i) prevents others from directly copying you, and if you believe that your method is superior/more efficient/easier then making them perform inefficient methods is valuable, and (ii) prevents others from getting a patent covering your technology and trying to prevent you from using your system.
But yeah, design arounds are always an option, and a good one that should be encouraged.
 
2012-11-13 01:12:18 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Theaetetus: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: GOD DAMMIT THERE IS NOTHING INNOVATIVE HERE.

[Citation needed]

F*ck Apple and anyone who defends this shiat.

Because angry swears and yelling are much more persuasive, amirite?

Welcome to Fark.tm

Anyone who has any level of formal computer experience beyond that of a layman can see it for what it is.

Besides, picking each of these ridiculous things apart is akin to trying to fight the political tactic of telling so many lies that your opponent can't possibly keep up.

The system as a whole is broken.

hammer85: 1. A method comprising: initiating a backup operation of data including determining that a plurality of items to be included in the backup operation are related items, using one or more processors, where related items are items that require a particular relationship between each other in order to execute a function; monitoring the plurality of related items for modifications occurring to one or more items of the plurality of related items during the backup operation including receiving notification of file system changes and determining whether a file system change occurred to one or more items of the plurality of related items; completing the backup operation including backing up the modified one or more related items; and when a modification occurred to one or more related items, the completing the backup operation includes performing a second backup operation for the one or more modified items of the plurality of related items, wherein the second backup operation includes replacing the modified one or more related items backed up during the backup operation with versions of the modified one or more related items that existed when the backup operation was initiated.

The claim, for those too lazy to look it up and assume an article summarizing the summary is whats patented.

Point out the innovative part. At the end of the day, it's "backing up what needs backing up".


The entire claim in combination with each other as it's a patent. Well...that was easy.

Now your turn, show the prior art (you know, evidence) that reads (alone or in combination) on every limitation of the claim
 
2012-11-13 01:12:34 PM

Theaetetus: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Anyone who has any level of formal computer experience beyond that of a layman can see it for what it is.

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: At the end of the day, it's "backing up what needs backing up".

So, since that's not what it is, you don't have any level of formal computer experience beyond that of a layman? Fair enough, and farky'd as such.


Coming from the self-professed iFanboy guy who defended the "rounded corners" patent as "very specific".

Please, tell me, in your own words, what the patent says, since it's not ultimately about backing up relevant data. I'll wait for your entirely non-pedantic answer.
 
2012-11-13 01:13:19 PM
My question *as a layman* is, would disallowing these types of patents really hurt innovation?

Seems to me if we don't allow ourselves to stand upon e/o shoulders a bit, we are in-fact....not helping.
 
2012-11-13 01:13:54 PM

hammer85: The entire claim in combination with each other as it's a patent. Well...that was easy.

Now your turn, show the prior art (you know, evidence) that reads (alone or in combination) on every limitation of the claim


I said point out the innovation. Combining peanut butter and jelly isn't innovation.
 
2012-11-13 01:14:20 PM
Um, isn't backing up your hard drive automatically so you can go back to different versions of your files what those external back-up drives are for? Don't they pretty much do the whole job provided you set them that way? I know I haven't be using mine that way because it slows my laptop to a crawl when I want to watch a movie or TV show, but that's the theory, right? Real time backup of all the file types you select, recoverable for each time period you select to back-up.

Of course, it would take a lot of power to back-up absolutely every second--a lot of editors I know back things up manually with every document change of any importance whatsoever. And years and years ago, back in the 1990s, I used something which allowed multiple editors to work simultaneously on a file with all of their edits saved and available for compiling and approval by a master editor. It was called "group ware", I believe. All of this hardware and software seems to have a built-in "time machine" function of some sort.

Is Apple taking a patent out on the wheel? the gear? the pulley? the lever?

They seem to be patent-prone. They took a patent out on the rectangle and the bevelled edge, apparently. The lawsuits have been many and costly to date, and I predict that in some future time, an Android phone is going to come back from the future and try to kill the Beatles to prevent Apple from being born.

That would make a great movie.
 
2012-11-13 01:14:31 PM

EdNortonsTwin: My question *as a layman* is, would disallowing these types of patents really hurt innovation?

Seems to me if we don't allow ourselves to stand upon e/o shoulders a bit, we are in-fact....not helping.


Lawyers gotta eat.
 
2012-11-13 01:16:04 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com

/would like a word...
 
2012-11-13 01:19:05 PM
A great story relevant to the subject at hand: "Melancholy Elephants" by Spider Robinson.

The "elephants never forget" meme is the source of the title, I assume.

http://www.spiderrobinson.com/melancholyelephants.html

I have read many of Spider Robinson's campier SF stories but I am impressed what he can write when he is being serious and not laying on the corn. Not that there is anything wrong with corn. Mmmmm ... corn. Tasty niblets of camp, comedy and satire.
 
2012-11-13 01:21:31 PM

hammer85: SacriliciousBeerSwiller:Point out the innovative part. At the end of the day, it's "backing up what needs backing up".

The entire claim in combination with each other as it's a patent. Well...that was easy.

Now your turn, show the prior art (you know, evidence) that reads (alone or in combination) on every limitation of the claim


Also, you're answer to "point out the innovation" is basically "it's a patent thus it's innovative"? Logical fallacy much?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-13 01:21:55 PM
brantgoose

A modern document may have several components: the style, the main body, a bunch of images, etc. Suppose you're writing a report.

Original: photo of a monkey with caption "primitive hominid"

New: photo of President Obama with caption "leader of Free World."

It would be highly embarrassing, at least, if you exchanged text and caption. But the backup could happen in between saving the new text into one file and saving the new photo into another. The patent has the document editor write metadata the backup software can read telling it not to save the new caption unless it also saves the new photo.
 
2012-11-13 01:22:08 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: hammer85: SacriliciousBeerSwiller:Point out the innovative part. At the end of the day, it's "backing up what needs backing up".

The entire claim in combination with each other as it's a patent. Well...that was easy.

Now your turn, show the prior art (you know, evidence) that reads (alone or in combination) on every limitation of the claim

Also, you're your answer to "point out the innovation" is basically "it's a patent thus it's innovative"? Logical fallacy much?


FTFMDA.
 
2012-11-13 01:22:35 PM
what the deuce
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-13 01:24:18 PM
Previous should read "exchanged photo and caption".
 
2012-11-13 01:28:08 PM
can he go back and instead fix the glitches with IOS6 (especially around Home Share)?

'cause that would be nice
 
2012-11-13 01:29:06 PM

KingKauff: The laws of physics states that a time machine cannot go back in time any further than the date it was turned on.


And of course the most interesting place to visit is the exact time the machine was turned on. Thus the whole of history comes to visit and causes a total collapse of space-time.

Maybe.

Look, I read it in a comic book so it must be true!
 
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