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(Motor Trend)   Tesla's Model S has swept Yahoo Auto, Automobile Magazine, and MotorTrend's Car Of The Year awards. Welcome back, American ingenuity. We've missed you   (motortrend.com) divider line 249
    More: Cool, Model S, Motor Trend, luxury vehicles, MotorTrend, Nikola Tesla, Chevy Equinox, inflection points, exteriors  
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13324 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Nov 2012 at 6:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-13 10:08:30 AM  
I like it. My commute to work is 7 miles each way, mostly 2 lane blacktop, that thing would be a hoot.

Current car is 11 years old now. If I still have a job in a year, I'd look into one.
 
2012-11-13 10:10:55 AM  

BigBooper: $49K according to their website. And I doubt most people drive 200 or more miles a day. I probably do 60 with work and misc errands. I don't think they had cross-country road trips in mind when they came up with the idea. It's a shame they can't make them affordable enough that regular people could get one though.

I'd say that the vast majority of Americans don't drive that in a normal day.


It's not a question of whether you do it every day. It's a question of whether you ever do it. Because the S cannot do it.

Basically, a Tesla can't drive from DC to NYC.
 
2012-11-13 10:11:48 AM  

Hollie Maea: Saw one of these at the Oregon electric vehicle association the other day. Probably the best car ever made. No, it is not cheap, and no you wouldn't expect the best car ever made to be cheap, especially when it is using emerging technology.

Also, goddamn there is some ignorance in this thread. Why are people so terrified of progress?


They know about electric cars from reading the Drudge Report.
 
2012-11-13 10:13:01 AM  
At $60,000, couldn't they make it a LITTLE lighter than 2.5 tons?
 
2012-11-13 10:13:37 AM  

ThunderPelvis: If you'd RTFA, you would have noticed that their new Supercharger stations give the cars an extra 150 miles after 30 minutes of charging.


All six of them.

And you better stop at Harris Ranch, because you can't get from north to south CA without hitting that station.
 
2012-11-13 10:14:22 AM  

This text is now purple: Basically, a Tesla can't drive from DC to NYC.


not yet, if the batteries were to become standardized, there could be swapping (or upgrade)stations
 
2012-11-13 10:19:01 AM  
Love the styling, love the concept of never having to fill up on gas again.

I don't love the range, though. I'm also worried about how the car will handle driving in the Northeast, especially during the winter.

I'll definitely consider buying one once the range gets to 350+ miles and can perform well in most winter conditions. My car has 3-4 years left in it. Would LOVE to buy one of these in a few years if the styling and interior goes head to head with BMW, Mercedes, and Audi. The price tag would be somewhat justified.

You're almost there, Tesla!
 
2012-11-13 10:19:47 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle:
3. The fact that consumers can't figure out that they shouldn't throw farking pizza boxes in the paper bin doesn't mean recycling is bad, it just means consumers are stupid and lazy and won't do it right


Really?
 
2012-11-13 10:21:03 AM  
Motor Trend has, in the past, also named the PT Cruiser, the Malibu, the Dodge Caravan, the AMC/Renault Alliance and the Mustang II the "Car of the Year"....Not sure that award is really all that special...

/Tesla is a good looking car, but 60K for a glorified golf cart?
 
2012-11-13 10:23:38 AM  

knbber2: Who wants a car that can only go about 200 miles and then has to recharge for most of the day? And the baseline is only $60K, what a bargain.


I guess this is your first experience with high-tech product launches. When you first make the product, your manufacturing process is naturally inefficient and you only have hopes of limited sales, thus the high price. If you can get enough early adopters to buy (either because of the status symbols or because they just like new tech), you can streamline your manufacturing process, improve the tech and start taking advantage of economies of scale.
 
2012-11-13 10:23:56 AM  

chevydeuce: /Tesla is a good looking car, but 60K for a glorified golf cart?


Well, a Hummer is just a glorified lawn mower.
 
2012-11-13 10:31:50 AM  

ajgeek: At $60,000, couldn't they make it a LITTLE lighter than 2.5 tons?


The weight is actually a huge advantage for this car. It carries the battery 12.5 - 17.5 inches off the ground depending on which active air suspension setting you choose, so the center of gravity is super low and it handles like a dream. And it can get away with being heavy because of how *clears throat* SUPERIOR a powerful electric motor is when it comes to delivering energy compared to a combustion engine. The standard model 85kw model has been tested to do 0 - 60 in 5.6 with 360 horsepower at ZERO rpm. The performance model does it in 4.0 seconds (3.9 by MotorTrend's testing) and hits 440 horsepower.
 
2012-11-13 10:32:15 AM  
People complaining about the range... why not just move somewhere that doesn't suck?

I get about 300 miles per tank of gas (14 gallons). I get gas about once every 3 weeks sometimes 4?

I don't really understand how your daily commute is over 200 miles unless you're just too retarded to buy a house near your job.
 
2012-11-13 10:35:50 AM  

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: The battery thing is why I just shake my head when the hippies get all jazzed up about hybrids and EVs. The metals that go into those batteries don't grow on trees... they're typically strip-mined. Then shipped somewhere to be smelted, shipped somewhere else to be processed into batteries, which are then shipped to the automaker's plant to be installed in the car, which is then shipped to a distributor, that then ships it to a dealer, that sells it to you. A Prius is about as green as a tire fire... any illusions had about reducing one's carbon footprint by owning one are just that... illusions. By the time you buy one and drive it home, the batteries alone have traveled more miles than you'll likely drive the first year of ownership.


It's too bad those metals wouldn't ever be used anywhere else except in Prius drivetrains.

[rolls eyes]
 
2012-11-13 10:38:20 AM  

chevydeuce: /Tesla is a good looking car, but 60K for a glorified golf cart?


It's actually 60k for the 160 mile/slow version with nothing in it. You're looking at over 90k to get the "standard" version out-the-door. I'd take a serious look at it if I could get the loaded performance version for under 70k before the tax credit. That would put it on par with the Audi A6s, Merc E-Class and BMW 500s. Right now that's banana's selling that car for 90k. I've also read that you get murdered with your insurance rates because they are considered an exotic vehicle that almost nobody can fix.

What if you have an issue with it? I'm assuming you have to ship the car across the country to have anyone work on it?
 
2012-11-13 10:38:31 AM  
My car gets around 200 miles on a tank of gas.

I've NEVER had to top off the tank twice in one day... NEVER.

Not even when i go to the lake.
 
2012-11-13 10:38:33 AM  

DarkSoulNoHope: Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Icetech3: Lets not talk about how bad electric cars are for the environment... A: Create a shiatton of batterys.. take a look at the chemicals used... B: Batteries have a VERY short lifespan, especially compared to a gas motor.. C: Hey! Lets dispose of those shiatty toxic batteries by the thousands now... The whole electric car idea is bullshiat being pushed on people. Just horrible...

P.S. you should learn the truth behind recycling.. just recycling paper is VERY bad for the environment... the chemicals used.. AND the power used to recycle even paper is unreal..

The battery thing is why I just shake my head when the hippies get all jazzed up about hybrids and EVs. The metals that go into those batteries don't grow on trees... they're typically strip-mined. Then shipped somewhere to be smelted, shipped somewhere else to be processed into batteries, which are then shipped to the automaker's plant to be installed in the car, which is then shipped to a distributor, that then ships it to a dealer, that sells it to you. A Prius is about as green as a tire fire... any illusions had about reducing one's carbon footprint by owning one are just that... illusions. By the time you buy one and drive it home, the batteries alone have traveled more miles than you'll likely drive the first year of ownership.

Besides, if you drive like you actually have someplace to be, your mileage isn't any better than your typical gasoline-powered mid-size car. Yes, I'm talking to you, Mr. pass-me-doing-90-in-your-Prius.

I love how people who somehow try to argue, "enviromentalism doesn't work, because doing the same thing we've been doing since the car has been created is better for the enviroment than your hippy ideas" ("those hippy ideas" include breathing clearly or drinking from water sources untainted by harmful chemicals!).

Unless you have stock in an oil company, you shouldn't care that we're trying to find alternative methods to power ...


I'm not saying things like Tesla's doing aren't great and needed in this day and age, I'm just saying we should quit bullshiatting ourselves here. The claims of greenliness (I've got dibs on that term, I made it up and it's mine) are exaggerated to the point of blatant dishonesty when it comes to most hybrids and EV's. Batteries don't grow on trees, and neither does the electricity to charge them. The solar charging stations aren't "free", someone paid to manufacture the things, and maintain them, and I'm sure the land they occupy was donated purely out of the good of someone's heart.

I love how people somehow try to argue "if you take issue with how these products are marketed, you hate clean air and water" when all it really comes down to is "Keep up the good work guys, but quit lying to us about how advanced this new tech is so it will sell better".
 
2012-11-13 10:39:18 AM  

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Icetech3: Lets not talk about how bad electric cars are for the environment... A: Create a shiatton of batterys.. take a look at the chemicals used... B: Batteries have a VERY short lifespan, especially compared to a gas motor.. C: Hey! Lets dispose of those shiatty toxic batteries by the thousands now... The whole electric car idea is bullshiat being pushed on people. Just horrible...

P.S. you should learn the truth behind recycling.. just recycling paper is VERY bad for the environment... the chemicals used.. AND the power used to recycle even paper is unreal..

The battery thing is why I just shake my head when the hippies get all jazzed up about hybrids and EVs. The metals that go into those batteries don't grow on trees... they're typically strip-mined. Then shipped somewhere to be smelted, shipped somewhere else to be processed into batteries, which are then shipped to the automaker's plant to be installed in the car, which is then shipped to a distributor, that then ships it to a dealer, that sells it to you. A Prius is about as green as a tire fire... any illusions had about reducing one's carbon footprint by owning one are just that... illusions. By the time you buy one and drive it home, the batteries alone have traveled more miles than you'll likely drive the first year of ownership.

Besides, if you drive like you actually have someplace to be, your mileage isn't any better than your typical gasoline-powered mid-size car. Yes, I'm talking to you, Mr. pass-me-doing-90-in-your-Prius.


So buy a H2?
 
2012-11-13 10:39:57 AM  

Mentat: knbber2: Who wants a car that can only go about 200 miles and then has to recharge for most of the day? And the baseline is only $60K, what a bargain.

I guess this is your first experience with high-tech product launches. When you first make the product, your manufacturing process is naturally inefficient and you only have hopes of limited sales, thus the high price. If you can get enough early adopters to buy (either because of the status symbols or because they just like new tech), you can streamline your manufacturing process, improve the tech and start taking advantage of economies of scale.


Tesla could have taken advantage of economies of scale by using another manufacturer's automotive platform and signing up with nationwide dealer networks. But no, it had to insist on doing everything from scratch.

so the car is done, and they need to sell at least 8000 cars in the US (plus an equal amount in international sales) to breakeven. But Tesla only has 20 dealers nationwide, less than 40 globally. Oops.
 
2012-11-13 10:41:30 AM  

theorellior: Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: The battery thing is why I just shake my head when the hippies get all jazzed up about hybrids and EVs. The metals that go into those batteries don't grow on trees... they're typically strip-mined. Then shipped somewhere to be smelted, shipped somewhere else to be processed into batteries, which are then shipped to the automaker's plant to be installed in the car, which is then shipped to a distributor, that then ships it to a dealer, that sells it to you. A Prius is about as green as a tire fire... any illusions had about reducing one's carbon footprint by owning one are just that... illusions. By the time you buy one and drive it home, the batteries alone have traveled more miles than you'll likely drive the first year of ownership.

It's too bad those metals wouldn't ever be used anywhere else except in Prius drivetrains.

[rolls eyes]


Yes, and I'm sure the recycling furnaces are heated with warm fuzzy feelings about baby seals and polar bears.

Is there something in your eye?
 
2012-11-13 10:44:47 AM  

Bullseyed: I don't really understand how your daily commute is over 200 miles unless you're just too retarded to buy a house near your job.


3.bp.blogspot.com
Cars are sometimes driven for reasons other than the daily commute. Film at 11.

/e.g., when I was in school, I sometimes drove home to the parents' house over holidays -- happened on a quasi-regular basis and was over 200 miles
 
2012-11-13 10:46:21 AM  

Hollie Maea: Why are people so terrified of progress?


They don't call themselves conservative because they are out there in the world making changes to better the future...
 
2012-11-13 10:46:57 AM  

Bullseyed: People complaining about the range... why not just move somewhere that doesn't suck?

I get about 300 miles per tank of gas (14 gallons). I get gas about once every 3 weeks sometimes 4?

I don't really understand how your daily commute is over 200 miles unless you're just too retarded to buy a house near your job.


People DO take trips outside of their car's range. There's still little infrastructure to support vehicles like these right now. How many battery swapping stations exist right now? Are there any in your area?

Say there was a charging station on the way to wherever you were going that was outside the range of the Tesla. Are you going to wait 30 minutes to let your car recharge?

A car is supposed to provide flexibility. It's infrastructure is not flexible at all right now, unless you're not planning on taking trips more than 100 miles away from home, then you can charge it at home and it's 100% flexible.

I see what you're saying, and I agree with you, but you're not thinking of the people that take long trips.
 
2012-11-13 10:48:04 AM  

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Batteries don't grow on trees, and neither does the electricity to charge them.


I'll put it to you this way... in my 7 years of driving a Civic hybrid, I saved approximately 1200 gallons of gas. Do I think that the environmental cost of mining, smelting, alloying and manufacturing that battery pack is less than the environmental cost of drilling, storing, transporting, refining and distributing that gasoline? Yes, yes I do. Additionally, those batteries were charged solely by the waste energy involved in stopping the car. This means that at 37 KWhr/gal, the battery pack reused 44.4 GWh of energy that would have been lost as waste heat. Does that offset the energy cost of their manufacture? Yes, I think it does.
 
2012-11-13 10:49:32 AM  

jfivealive: 49k starting price with a 7k federal grant price reduction? Just paid off my car today, so I just may look into getting one of these come this time next year if i could get one used for around 30!


It's 49.9k AFTER the federal tax credit. It's not a grant. You still have to hand over $57k to Tesla to buy the car, you just pay $7k less in taxes next time.

Also, these are all custom orders now, and they take months to deliver. Those aren't going to depreciate more than 20% in a year. So best case, TWO years from now, you might get one for $32k, if there are dissatisfied owners selling them used.

For $30k a year from now it's going to have been in a wreck, or some old dude maybe kicked the bucket and shat all over the driver's seat and they can't get the smell out.
 
2012-11-13 10:51:46 AM  

Hollie Maea: Also, goddamn there is some ignorance in this thread. Why are people so terrified of progress?


It's nice that these are cheap to refuel, but it seems like a step backward to go from a vehicle that can be refueled in 5 minutes to one that takes hours to "fuel". Electric cars are great in principle, but battery technology sucks, quite frankly, and its at the core of the design. Fuel cells or some kind of internal generator (similar to the Chevy Volt) would seem like a better idea.
 
2012-11-13 10:51:48 AM  

ThunderPelvis: The price will go down after infrastructure and production start ramping up. You think Joe Sixpack was driving the first production models of gasoline-powered cars?


Considering that's who the Model T was built for, I'd say yes, yes he was.
 
2012-11-13 10:52:30 AM  

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Yes, and I'm sure the recycling furnaces are heated with warm fuzzy feelings about baby seals and polar bears.


Look, pardner, just because an environmentalist touched you in a bad place, doesn't mean you're right. I wasn't talking about recycling the batteries. I'm talking about the fact that nickel is a major industrial metal, used for many, many other things than just NiMH batteries for Priuses and Civics. If there were no Priuses anywhere on the planet, nickel would still be strip-mined in megaton quanitites. You can't pin the entire environmental impact of nickel strip mining on NiMH batteries, because to do that would be intellectually disingenuous.
 
2012-11-13 10:52:48 AM  
I just bought a car a year ago (Mini Cooper, pretty good MPGs), but I fully expect my next one 5-10 years down the line to be electric. That seems like plenty of time for this technology to become wider spread, cheaper, and more efficient. And those pictures of the Tesla are droolworthy.
 
2012-11-13 10:53:46 AM  
And they're based in Palo Alto / Menlo Park. I couldn't be prouder.
 
2012-11-13 10:54:31 AM  

jshine: I sometimes drove home to the parents' house over holidays


I don't know where you live, but the meanings of "sometimes" and "holidays" are not the same as Daily...

The point, which you clearly missed, is that the bulk of most people's driving, daily, from day to day, not the occasional road trip or vacation, is less than 200 miles a day...

There, it's spelled out for you...

If you have a need for something OTHER than daily driving, then plan for it... rent a car... the money you will save in gas alone will pay for more than one of those occasional trips you sometimes took over the holidays...

Seriously... the amount of idiocy in this thread is beyond belief...
 
2012-11-13 10:55:11 AM  
Kid in high school made a Tesla coil for science fair project. We all kept asking him why he would make a testicle. It was uproarious.
 
2012-11-13 10:59:23 AM  

CeroX: jshine: I sometimes drove home to the parents' house over holidays

I don't know where you live, but the meanings of "sometimes" and "holidays" are not the same as Daily...


I know you're trying for some kind of sarcasm, but we both understand each other perfectly well. Reasonable people will have different ideas of what constitutes an acceptable compromise in design/performance.
 
2012-11-13 11:01:53 AM  

jshine: Hollie Maea: Also, goddamn there is some ignorance in this thread. Why are people so terrified of progress?

It's nice that these are cheap to refuel, but it seems like a step backward to go from a vehicle that can be refueled in 5 minutes to one that takes hours to "fuel". Electric cars are great in principle, but battery technology sucks, quite frankly, and its at the core of the design. Fuel cells or some kind of internal generator (similar to the Chevy Volt) would seem like a better idea.


Jesus H Christ... You drive a mustang gt don't you? You have "American Muscle Cars 4life" tat'd on your penis? Because you are just a complete waste of farking conversation...

You realize that within a couple of years, they will come up with a magnetic charger pad like they have for your cell phones and toothbrushes, and all you will have to do is throw one down on the floor of your garage?

Park your car, and it charges... you won't even have to bother plugging it in, you just park your car and the next morning it's got a "full tank"...

But i bet your REAL issue, is that the car doesn't go RRRRRAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR when you rev the engine at a stop light next to the 18 year old with the fart can on his civic...
 
2012-11-13 11:02:03 AM  
I love Tesla
 
2012-11-13 11:02:30 AM  

dp3: For those talking about range issues, EVs are not at the stage where you can do a practical long-haul drive. They are for city commuting and smaller trips, nobody realistically drives 100-200 miles daily in a single go... You can go to work, use 80% of your range, charge there while you're not using the car, and in 2-3 hours your car is back at 100%.

A guy just completed a trip from SF to LA in a day (400mi) in a BMW ActiveE that only gets 106mi of range on a good day. Practical? No. Feasible? Totally.


For city dwellers and suburbannites (the paradigm for very rural exurbs and small towns is a bit different) 200 miles is all you'd resaonably expect to drive in a single day (its a LOT farther than it sounds) I just recently drove from DC to Hilton Head SC and that is only a 600 mile trip). If you are going much farther than that you are more likely to fly or take (in the NE anyway) Highspeed rail or a "dragon" bus
 
2012-11-13 11:03:33 AM  

theorellior: Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Batteries don't grow on trees, and neither does the electricity to charge them.

I'll put it to you this way... in my 7 years of driving a Civic hybrid, I saved approximately 1200 gallons of gas. Do I think that the environmental cost of mining, smelting, alloying and manufacturing that battery pack is less than the environmental cost of drilling, storing, transporting, refining and distributing that gasoline? Yes, yes I do. Additionally, those batteries were charged solely by the waste energy involved in stopping the car. This means that at 37 KWhr/gal, the battery pack reused 44.4 GWh of energy that would have been lost as waste heat. Does that offset the energy cost of their manufacture? Yes, I think it does.


"Gas would have to approach $8 a gallon before many of the cars could be expected to pay off in the six years an average person owns a car."

Link

Keep thinking that.

Electric cars are something I support, but if you want a standing ovation from me, do something about the hundreds of thousands of 18-wheelers burning diesel at 4-6 mpg. At that point, I'll concede that saving 1200 gallons a year is awesome (my local station pumps that much in a hour on a Monday morning)
 
2012-11-13 11:04:18 AM  

CeroX: The point, which you clearly missed, is that the bulk of most people's driving, daily, from day to day, not the occasional road trip or vacation, is less than 200 miles a day...

There, it's spelled out for you...


Oh, I didn't miss the point -- in fact, I readily agree with it. My problem with this design is that if one deviates from the normal plan, there's very little flexibility in this design. If one robotically drives back and forth to work, then there are no problems -- but if you want to drive longer for any reason (a weekend trip to the wine country, a family emergency, a trip to visit friends/relatives, etc., etc.), then you could end up stuck beside the freeway waiting for a tow-truck.

I'll agree that 99% of the time, these would be fine -- but that remaining 1% would be a real pain in the ass -- enough to (IMHO) prevent me from ever buying a pure-electric (except as a toy).
 
2012-11-13 11:04:47 AM  

CeroX: But i bet your REAL issue, is that the car doesn't go RRRRRAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR when you rev the engine at a stop light next to the 18 year old with the fart can on his civic...


Fortunately, they'll probably include an IC-engine noise pack and external speakers in your sports car EV so you can play the muscle-car rumble-rumble at stoplights.
 
2012-11-13 11:05:45 AM  

CeroX: Jesus H Christ... You drive a mustang gt don't you? You have "American Muscle Cars 4life" tat'd on your penis? Because you are just a complete waste of farking conversation...


I drive a Mazda 3 and have a doctorate in engineering. No tattoos. Stereotypes may save time, but they can lead one astray...
 
2012-11-13 11:10:33 AM  

CeroX: But i bet your REAL issue, is that the car doesn't go RRRRRAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR when you rev the engine at a stop light next to the 18 year old with the fart can on his civic...

  

i45.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-13 11:11:19 AM  

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: "Gas would have to approach $8 a gallon before many of the cars could be expected to pay off in the six years an average person owns a car."


Good Lord, you're still not getting it. I'm not talking about paying off the damn car. I'm talking about the energy involved in making the damn batteries. That's what we're talking about, right? You say that batteries aren't environmental because nickel is strip-mined and the electricity has to come from somewhere. I'm telling you that nickel is not specific to battery manufacture and hybrid cars charge the batteries off of energy wasted from the gasoline.

A real-life empirical example, I saved 1200 gallons of gasoline with a 250 lb battery pack. My contention is that the savings of the former more than paid for the cost of the latter. Do you want it even more black and white? 1200 gallons of gas = $4800. A new battery pack = $2800. Enjoy.
 
2012-11-13 11:12:37 AM  

jshine: but that remaining 1% would be a real pain in the ass


I think that's subjective to the person... Going to enterprise and renting a car for a long haul is as much of a pain in the ass as going to Valvoline and getting an oil change... But i do that every 3k miles...
 
2012-11-13 11:15:29 AM  

theorellior: Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Yes, and I'm sure the recycling furnaces are heated with warm fuzzy feelings about baby seals and polar bears.

Look, pardner, just because an environmentalist touched you in a bad place, doesn't mean you're right. I wasn't talking about recycling the batteries. I'm talking about the fact that nickel is a major industrial metal, used for many, many other things than just NiMH batteries for Priuses and Civics. If there were no Priuses anywhere on the planet, nickel would still be strip-mined in megaton quanitites. You can't pin the entire environmental impact of nickel strip mining on NiMH batteries, because to do that would be intellectually disingenuous.


Yes. I was sexually abused by an environmentalist. My opinion has nothing to do with the basics law of thermodynamics getting in the way of your tree-hugging circle jerk.

/Oh, look. I can ruin a perfectly good debate by making vague allusions to the sexual history/proclivities of my opposition, too!
 
dp3
2012-11-13 11:18:22 AM  

Magorn: dp3: For those talking about range issues, EVs are not at the stage where you can do a practical long-haul drive. They are for city commuting and smaller trips, nobody realistically drives 100-200 miles daily in a single go... You can go to work, use 80% of your range, charge there while you're not using the car, and in 2-3 hours your car is back at 100%.

A guy just completed a trip from SF to LA in a day (400mi) in a BMW ActiveE that only gets 106mi of range on a good day. Practical? No. Feasible? Totally.

For city dwellers and suburbannites (the paradigm for very rural exurbs and small towns is a bit different) 200 miles is all you'd resaonably expect to drive in a single day (its a LOT farther than it sounds) I just recently drove from DC to Hilton Head SC and that is only a 600 mile trip). If you are going much farther than that you are more likely to fly or take (in the NE anyway) Highspeed rail or a "dragon" bus


Full disclosure: I'm involved with the ActiveE trial, so the limitations of electric vehicles are very apparent to me and there have been a few lifestyle adjustments I've had to make in order to go electric.
I don't think EVs are for everyone and we still have ICE cars for long trips where we want to travel reasonably far without having to stop in the middle for a charge.
As mentioned up thread, there are a few companies figuring out battery swapping, induction chargers on the roads and parking lots, etc.
Despite the caveats, driving electric so far in CA has been relatively painless and pretty cool when my $250/mo. in gas turned into $20/mo. of electricity. Especially as infrastructure keeps getting developed.
 
2012-11-13 11:18:27 AM  

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: My opinion has nothing to do with the basics law of thermodynamics getting in the way of your tree-hugging circle jerk.


Are you even reading my comments? The ones that talk about energy tradeoffs and suchlike? Or are you so invested in counting coup against an environazi that you're turning off your brain?
 
2012-11-13 11:21:08 AM  

jshine: [i45.tinypic.com image 400x302]


Not anger, i just don't see why you would be pushing back on this as much as you are... though with that engineering degree something tells me it might have something to do with your employment...

Personally, i don't think the country is ready for EV yet... because they aren't ready to give up or change their habits...

That's the real problem with innovation and change... people... people just can't seem to wrap their brain around doing something different than they've been used to doing...

I see that attitude at my job all the time... people recieve a new policy and pitch a fit because "that's not how we did it before!"

Who cares? it's how you do it until it changes again, and again, and again...

It's not the "love" of oil that people have, it's the love of routine... the love of familiarity... some people (washington and new jersey for example) still don't even know how to fill up their own gas tank, asking them to plug a cord into a vehicle is like asking them to flay open an infant with a straight razor...

Then, to top it off, they work harder and do more research trying to NOT change their habits than spending it just learning the new system...
 
2012-11-13 11:29:51 AM  
PSA: anyone talking about nickel based batteries is ignorant and should not be joining a discussion about electric vehicles.
 
dp3
2012-11-13 11:29:58 AM  

BHShaman: dp3: For those talking about range issues, EVs are not at the stage where you can do a practical long-haul drive. They are for city commuting and smaller trips,


Yes

dp3: nobody realistically drives 100-200 miles daily in a single go...

Maine is 7 hours North to South and 5 hours East to West
Some people have really long commutes for our few crappy jobs.


I was speaking more towards urban/suburban cities (NYC/LA/SF) where you probably spend more time sitting in traffic rather than actually traveling.
If I lived in Maine I think that I would probably take a train or something like that just to avoid driving that long on a regular basis.
I don't think electric vehicles are a silver bullet, it's a mix of transportation methods to address our issues--but, if you can travel quietly, without concentrating emissions in the city, and produce some of your own electricity so we can use oil for other things, it seems like a good way to go.
 
2012-11-13 11:30:11 AM  

xtragrind: chevydeuce: /Tesla is a good looking car, but 60K for a glorified golf cart?

It's actually 60k for the 160 mile/slow version with nothing in it. You're looking at over 90k to get the "standard" version out-the-door. I'd take a serious look at it if I could get the loaded performance version for under 70k before the tax credit. That would put it on par with the Audi A6s, Merc E-Class and BMW 500s. Right now that's banana's selling that car for 90k. I've also read that you get murdered with your insurance rates because they are considered an exotic vehicle that almost nobody can fix.

What if you have an issue with it? I'm assuming you have to ship the car across the country to have anyone work on it?


Actually 50k (after tax credit) for the 160 mile model (40kw battery). Then 60k for 230 miles (60kw) and 70k - 100k for the 300 mile (85 kw).
 
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