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(Some Guy)   You know this election was a brutal one for one party when an uber right-wing blog begins a post with the sentence "I honestly never thought the day would come when I would be nostalgic for the Presidency of Bill Clinton"   (realville-usa.com) divider line 64
    More: Amusing, Presidency of Bill Clinton, Bill Clinton, right-wing  
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1435 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Nov 2012 at 12:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-12 06:37:54 PM  

thunderbird8804: HighOnCraic: thunderbird8804: screwed over the gay community with DADT

It wasn't the ideal solution, but it was a halfway measure that allowed gays to serve without being questioned about their private lives. How is that screwing them over?

I hate to do it, but I'll just quote myself here:

thunderbird8804: I'm aware of what the right wants now, and what they wanted then, but the fact remains that Clinton ran in 92 on helping out homosexuals, and instead he immediately relegated them to the closet, then told them "What are you gonna do about it? Turn to the Republicans? Vote Clinton in 96!" The whole thing was shameful, and I'm just glad we're finally starting to get past that unhealthy level of realpolitik.


They were already in the closet; his admittedly crappy compromise prevented them from being forced out.

From wiki:

The "don't ask" part of the DADT policy specified that superiors should not initiate investigation of a servicemember's orientation without witnessing disallowed behaviors, though credible evidence of homosexual behavior could be used to initiate an investigation. Unauthorized investigations and harassment of suspected servicemen and women led to an expansion of the policy to "don't ask, don't tell, don't pursue, don't harass."

The full name of the policy at the time was "Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Pursue." The "Don't Ask" provision mandated that military or appointed officials will not ask about or require members to reveal their sexual orientation. The "Don't Tell" stated that a member may be discharged for claiming to be a homosexual or bisexual or making a statement indicating a tendency towards or intent to engage in homosexual activities. The "Don't Pursue" established what was minimally required for an investigation to be initiated. A "Don't Harass" provision was added to the policy later. It ensured that the military would not allow harassment or violence against service members for any reason.
 
2012-11-12 06:45:18 PM  
In twenty years there'll be a new MOST LIBERALIST PRESIDENT EVER and right-wing idiots will be talking about how they yearn for the days of Obama.
 
2012-11-12 06:46:49 PM  
Knows that feel bro . . .

2.bp.blogspot.com 

/Hot?
 
2012-11-12 07:25:29 PM  

Imperialism: In twenty years there'll be a new MOST LIBERALIST PRESIDENT EVER and right-wing idiots will be talking about how they yearn for the days of Obama.


If these guys are saying things like this then they must forget about what it was like back then. I remember. They HHHHAAATTEEEDDD Clinton like nothing I'd ever even heard of before. My dad seemed to have it summed up pretty good; they hated him because he wasn't establishment. He was a poor kid, raised by a single mother, never even met his father, got through college with academic accomplishment instead of legacy, and actually built his life himself instead of having it handed to him.

They loathed Clinton. Absolutely and totally. Even when he gave the right everything they wanted, they still spat when they said his name. He had the audacity to go above his position in society. How dare he actually make something of himself?? What if other poor people do that, who will our betters have to rule??? They hated him like European nobility hated Napoleon.

Obama is all of that plus he's black and has a funny name. I never thought the right could hate more than they hated Clinton. I guess that's because I never knew true hate.
 
2012-11-12 07:42:06 PM  

HighOnCraic: They were already in the closet; his admittedly crappy compromise prevented them from being forced out.


Compromise on what? His party was in control of both the house and senate when DADT was passed.
 
2012-11-12 08:03:19 PM  

thunderbird8804: HighOnCraic: They were already in the closet; his admittedly crappy compromise prevented them from being forced out.

Compromise on what? His party was in control of both the house and senate when DADT was passed.


It's been a long time, so I don't remember all the details, but from wiki:

"Congress rushed to enact the existing gay ban policy into federal law, outflanking Clinton's planned repeal effort. Clinton called for legislation to overturn the ban, but encountered intense opposition from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, members of Congress, and portions of the public. DADT emerged as a compromise policy."

I think he even faced opposition from within his own party from Sam Nunn.

Link
 
2012-11-12 08:23:59 PM  

HighOnCraic: thunderbird8804: HighOnCraic: They were already in the closet; his admittedly crappy compromise prevented them from being forced out.

Compromise on what? His party was in control of both the house and senate when DADT was passed.

It's been a long time, so I don't remember all the details, but from wiki:

"Congress rushed to enact the existing gay ban policy into federal law, outflanking Clinton's planned repeal effort. Clinton called for legislation to overturn the ban, but encountered intense opposition from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, members of Congress, and portions of the public. DADT emerged as a compromise policy."

I think he even faced opposition from within his own party from Sam Nunn.

Link


The democrats actually had enough of a majority to bypass the opposition in the senate, he was really appeasing the joint chiefs, which is a big mistake because you never want the military to dictate policy to the civilian government. It should, and needs to always be the other way around.
 
2012-11-12 08:28:37 PM  

thunderbird8804: HighOnCraic: thunderbird8804: HighOnCraic: They were already in the closet; his admittedly crappy compromise prevented them from being forced out.

Compromise on what? His party was in control of both the house and senate when DADT was passed.

It's been a long time, so I don't remember all the details, but from wiki:

"Congress rushed to enact the existing gay ban policy into federal law, outflanking Clinton's planned repeal effort. Clinton called for legislation to overturn the ban, but encountered intense opposition from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, members of Congress, and portions of the public. DADT emerged as a compromise policy."

I think he even faced opposition from within his own party from Sam Nunn.

Link

The democrats actually had enough of a majority to bypass the opposition in the senate, he was really appeasing the joint chiefs, which is a big mistake because you never want the military to dictate policy to the civilian government. It should, and needs to always be the other way around.


The policy at the time was to kick out gays; Clinton's compromise was to allow them to stay in the service as long as they weren't open about it, and the compromise prevented investigations and harassment. Not perfect, but hardly screwing them over.
 
2012-11-12 09:19:18 PM  

HighOnCraic: thunderbird8804: HighOnCraic: thunderbird8804: HighOnCraic: They were already in the closet; his admittedly crappy compromise prevented them from being forced out.

Compromise on what? His party was in control of both the house and senate when DADT was passed.

It's been a long time, so I don't remember all the details, but from wiki:

"Congress rushed to enact the existing gay ban policy into federal law, outflanking Clinton's planned repeal effort. Clinton called for legislation to overturn the ban, but encountered intense opposition from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, members of Congress, and portions of the public. DADT emerged as a compromise policy."

I think he even faced opposition from within his own party from Sam Nunn.

Link

The democrats actually had enough of a majority to bypass the opposition in the senate, he was really appeasing the joint chiefs, which is a big mistake because you never want the military to dictate policy to the civilian government. It should, and needs to always be the other way around.

The policy at the time was to kick out gays; Clinton's compromise was to allow them to stay in the service as long as they weren't open about it, and the compromise prevented investigations and harassment. Not perfect, but hardly screwing them over.


Once again, there was no need for a compromise. Clinton's party was in control of the house and the senate, with ample majorities in both to be able to pass something far better than DADT, and if they didn't feel like doing that through congress, Clinton could have just issued an executive order and the matter would be settled. Instead of doing that he relegated gay enlisted men and women to the closet for 17 years, and that was their reward for swallowing his bullshiat campaign promises and supporting his presidential run. Sorry, but they were screwed over.
 
2012-11-12 09:33:04 PM  

thunderbird8804: HighOnCraic: thunderbird8804: HighOnCraic: thunderbird8804: HighOnCraic: They were already in the closet; his admittedly crappy compromise prevented them from being forced out.

Compromise on what? His party was in control of both the house and senate when DADT was passed.

It's been a long time, so I don't remember all the details, but from wiki:

"Congress rushed to enact the existing gay ban policy into federal law, outflanking Clinton's planned repeal effort. Clinton called for legislation to overturn the ban, but encountered intense opposition from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, members of Congress, and portions of the public. DADT emerged as a compromise policy."

I think he even faced opposition from within his own party from Sam Nunn.

Link

The democrats actually had enough of a majority to bypass the opposition in the senate, he was really appeasing the joint chiefs, which is a big mistake because you never want the military to dictate policy to the civilian government. It should, and needs to always be the other way around.

The policy at the time was to kick out gays; Clinton's compromise was to allow them to stay in the service as long as they weren't open about it, and the compromise prevented investigations and harassment. Not perfect, but hardly screwing them over.

Once again, there was no need for a compromise. Clinton's party was in control of the house and the senate, with ample majorities in both to be able to pass something far better than DADT, and if they didn't feel like doing that through congress, Clinton could have just issued an executive order and the matter would be settled. Instead of doing that he relegated gay enlisted men and women to the closet for 17 years, and that was their reward for swallowing his bullshiat campaign promises and supporting his presidential run. Sorry, but they were screwed over.


I saw it as getting a small amount of progress vs. maintaining the status quo. We can agree to disagree. Peace!
 
2012-11-13 03:31:58 AM  
You liberals are forgetting about Hillary's trip down Whitewater. I for one am still angry and glad our GOP controlled house stood up and were willing to spend 40 million dollars to ghet him thrown out of office. It takes real heroes to pony up and take money out of their constituent's pockets to protect the constitution from the evil that was Clinton. However, it's much worse with this Nazi, fascist, communist, aithiest, seekret muslin, Kenyan usurper in the white house. No wonder the republicans were so successful in keeping the house this time around. I will proudly wear my flag pin in their honor.
 
2012-11-13 05:15:31 AM  

ha-ha-guy: Vodka Zombie: NowhereMon: I remember in 2000 I said that the Clinton years would be looked back on as a golden age and everyone laughed and laughed, but here we are. Low unemployment, no stupid wars, balanced budget were the best, who cares if he got a Beej.

As far as I care, he freakin' DESERVED the BJ.

My issue with that BJ is that Clinton made us look bad on the world stage with his ugly interns. If he'd been like Kennedy and tapping a movie star on the side it would have been much more acceptable.


You almost have to think that the reason why it never became an issue with JFK was because even his political enemies couldn't spin nailing Marilyn Monroe as a downside.
 
2012-11-13 07:17:52 AM  

ha-ha-guy: Vodka Zombie: NowhereMon: I remember in 2000 I said that the Clinton years would be looked back on as a golden age and everyone laughed and laughed, but here we are. Low unemployment, no stupid wars, balanced budget were the best, who cares if he got a Beej.

As far as I care, he freakin' DESERVED the BJ.

My issue with that BJ is that Clinton made us look bad on the world stage with his ugly interns. If he'd been like Kennedy and tapping a movie star on the side it would have been much more acceptable.


No. Most of us foreigners do not care about Clinton's sex life. Bush was much more damaging to the reputation of the US, and more recently the various horrid , medieval statements from some of your elected official regarding rape.
 
2012-11-13 07:25:34 AM  

Ambivalence: During the Bush administration democrats were nostalgic for Nixon. It really is a crazy world.


Nixon was actually quite liberal by today's standards.
 
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