Thunderpipes: Does America's future look bright to you? We will be 20-22 trillion in debt by the end of Obama's 2nd term. Growth at best will be maybe 2%. Taxing the evil rich will not put even a dent in the deficit, and all projections on that do not factor in the negative aspects of taxing people, many who run businesses.

Show your math, unless you're like the average Right Winger and this is your Kryptonite. I know, I know, facts and logic don't belong in 'The Truth', but here in the real world, we like to use them to make informed decisions, you know, kind of like Nate Silver did to prognosticate the election results.

Tigger: It exists because the founding fathers were terrified of mob rule having just witnessed France burn itself to the ground. It was a deliberate attempt to put a buffer between the people and the executive.

Wasn't that also the reason for not having direct election of Senators, which we have since changed?

Shaggy_C: Holocaust Agnostic: Small states are already overrepresented in the House and wildly overrepresented in the Senate. They have a voice in government. The EC needs to go.

And then, rather than campaigning in 13 states, presidential candidates will only campaign in the NYC, Chicago, Houston, Philly, and LA metro areas.

How many people actually saw Obama, Biden, Romney or Ryan in the flesh this election cycle? The ten most populus US cities add up to around 25 million people - or around 20% of the total votes cast for president last week. Sure, they'll spend a lot more time physically in NYC and LA, but they'll still buy airtime in Alaska. Foxnews will still broadcast into rural areas, the internet won't by some miracle retract to appearing only in urban centers. And as I said before, tv spots in are significantly cheaper in Toledo than they are in Chicago, so small cities won't suddenly get a blessed lack of advertising.

These guys ain't one-at-a-timing - and they haven't since Marconi invented the radio or JFK made Nixon look like a zombie in their debate. They're MASS communicating.

Heraclitus: You know, you plan and you hope and you dream, and every once in a while the planets line up just right...

Just not Kolob.

Philip Francis Queeg: Tigger: The electoral college doesn't exist to protect smaller states rights.

It exists because the founding fathers were terrified of mob rule having just witnessed France burn itself to the ground. It was a deliberate attempt to put a buffer between the people and the executive.

The Constitution was written in 1787. The French revolution did not start until 1789.

Fair - what I should have said was

Hamilton in Federalist Papers - "Mob rule will get us all killed - these people are farking idiots and shouldn't vote"
Cut to six months later - "look at France - mob rule"

I think there's a bit about it in Tocqueville as well - essentially linking the rising uppitiness of poor people across the west.

HST's Dead Carcass: goes back to my belief that the only way to get through the butthurt is through ridicule, because these people are being ridiculous and 'facts and logic' are quite literally considered 'tools of the liberals' and shouldn't be trusted.

Yeah, I came to that point over the summer. There is no reasoning with persons who won't listen. Instead, you can either avoid the argument altogether or just plow them into the ground with ridicule. Otherwise, reasoned debate (facts) have little to effect on their opinion and/or mindset and is simply a waste of time.

I never believed in this whole "life in the bubble" thing with conservatives until I started engaging them in debate. Then I quickly learned it was pointless to have any middle ground with them. Best just to cut the wound open and grind salt into it until they writhe in pain. Afterwards when walking away, add "I told you so" for good measure.

By now, I have seen enough conservatives eyes gloss over when presented with reason to know they will probably never change. Better to spend time dealing with people who have already have a bit of compassion for others than attempt to change a conservative butt-mind. They are a group that is beyond hope at this point and I wish they would do as so many have threatened - move to another country (but we know most countries would not have them). They are the biggest obstacle to this country moving forward in the 21st century.

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Thunderpipes: Democrats can remain in power, and even gain in power simply by promising free stuff.

What free stuff has been promised. You keep posting generic statements. Post some verifiable facts.

I want to know exactly what taxpayer-funded things have been promised to minorities by democrats.

I was promised a free Thunderpipes cockpunching machine. It just punches thunderpipes. In the cock. For free.

HST's Dead Carcass: Obama won with Electoral and Popular votes. Deal with it.

Done in five.

((47% people mooching x 3/5th a person voting x 12 million jobs Romney would create - 6016 years the Earth has been around) / 10 (number of Huntsman and Romney children)) - (Atari 7800) = 330,000

Math, using bullshiat, false or sad facts. Plus Atari (well, minus Atari really).

Thunderpipes: Philip Francis Queeg: Thunderpipes: Headso: Thunderpipes: They breed faster, also a fact. Democrats can remain in power, and even gain in power simply by promising free stuff.

what if they promise free abortions? did I just blow your mind?

Well, considering that they ran on that, well, ya.

I just wish liberals would actually care and think about solutions, instead of how to use tax dollars to stay in power. The deficit crisis is bad, and getting much worse each day, and none of you care. Are any of you parents? Don't you care that in 10-20 years we will be in deep, deep trouble with no way out?

How much do you think we need to cut taxes on the job creators to fully solve our debt problem? 20%? 50%?

A slight tax cut would be nice. But that alone would not do it. We need massive cuts in domestic spending, military and social. We need to reform the big entitlements. We need to make being poor hard, and put unemployment back to what it should be, emergency fund to get back to work.

Democrats want to do one thing and one thing only, tax the rich. Best estimate on that are a drop in the bucket and don't take into effect growth slowdown because of pressure on business owners. Love Obamacare or not, that is another giant lump of costs thrown onto employers. I mean, really, what is Obama's plan? Instead of 1 trillion dollar deficits, we tax the rich and have 900 billion dollar deficits. I am not a math buy, but adding 900 billion a year to debt is bad, yes? Everything you guys believe in is simply to win elections and gain in numbers for your party. Not a single thing is for the good of the country, not one. Even the auto bailout was nothing but a huge taxpayer campaign fund.

You won an election by convincing half the people that being successful is bad and we need to punish that. How far we have sunk as a people...

Are you that old guy from Hungary or Albania or whatever who put that commercial about socialism on TV to convince mongoloids to vote GOP? You know, the one that confused socialism with Communism?

Thunderpipes: Philip Francis Queeg: Thunderpipes: Headso: Thunderpipes: They breed faster, also a fact. Democrats can remain in power, and even gain in power simply by promising free stuff.

what if they promise free abortions? did I just blow your mind?

Well, considering that they ran on that, well, ya.

I just wish liberals would actually care and think about solutions, instead of how to use tax dollars to stay in power. The deficit crisis is bad, and getting much worse each day, and none of you care. Are any of you parents? Don't you care that in 10-20 years we will be in deep, deep trouble with no way out?

How much do you think we need to cut taxes on the job creators to fully solve our debt problem? 20%? 50%?

A slight tax cut would be nice. But that alone would not do it. We need massive cuts in domestic spending, military and social. We need to reform the big entitlements. We need to make being poor hard, and put unemployment back to what it should be, emergency fund to get back to work.

Democrats want to do one thing and one thing only, tax the rich. Best estimate on that are a drop in the bucket and don't take into effect growth slowdown because of pressure on business owners. Love Obamacare or not, that is another giant lump of costs thrown onto employers. I mean, really, what is Obama's plan? Instead of 1 trillion dollar deficits, we tax the rich and have 900 billion dollar deficits. I am not a math buy, but adding 900 billion a year to debt is bad, yes? Everything you guys believe in is simply to win elections and gain in numbers for your party. Not a single thing is for the good of the country, not one. Even the auto bailout was nothing but a huge taxpayer campaign fund.

You won an election by convincing half the people that being successful is bad and we need to punish that. How far we have sunk as a people...

I'm glad you're deep inside your echo chamber, but come on out so you can get some fresh air.

Unfortunately, you are misguided about many, many things about Democrats. Apparently you think we only want to tax the rich. Well, last week, all we wanted to do was make every woman have an abortion. The week before that the only thing we wanted to do was replace all of Gideon's Bible's with Achmed's Koran's.

You really need to keep up with the times.

But, in truth, I already know your tactic: Always keep moving. Address a point by shifting it sideways to a tangential part of the argument, and continually move the yardstick. By doing this you can successfully claim "The Dems can't answer my hard questions" when in truth we put them to rest and ask you to show where your faulty logic is coming from, at which point you jump to another subject.

You will never be satisfied with the answers provided, even when you are proven wrong in all ways. Go ahead and start filling up your ignore list before we start a verbal rape gang on you.

Thunderpipes: Skw33tis: Thunderpipes: ...Minorities really do breed much faster. So do poor people. They all vote for whomever gives them the most free stuff...

Oh, but Republicans aren't racists, and the Democrats are the real racists for saying so. Right.

No doubt, it's an isolated incident.

What do facts have to do with racism? You are aware of the facts about demographics, right? Democrats, but even more now that Obama is the Messiah, get the overwhelming majority of minority votes. This is a fact. They breed faster, also a fact. Democrats can remain in power, and even gain in power simply by promising free stuff.

I missed all those promises of free stuff.

Thunderpipes: So, I dare one person here to tell me how Obama will fix things. Use numbers and such. I dare you.

Oh, you cannot, because we are screwed. You are happy your guy won, want to attack people with jobs, and who cares....

There was that deficit reduction plan early last year in which Boehner said he got 90% of what he wanted that included very modest revenue increases and LOTs of spending cuts. It is what is known as a compromise. The tea party economic terrorists in the House poo-poo'd it. The GOP is holding the economy of this country hostage and it is disgusting to see and instead of recognizing that the Dems gave the GOP 90% of what they wanted you cry like a little biatch about 'punishing' the wealthy which is nothing more than paying the same rates they paid in the 90s. Acknowledge the deal that was on the table where the Dems gave a lot and the GOP gave nothing. THAT is why things are so dire today, because of the GOP. Look in the farking mirror and open your goddamned eyes!