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(The Atlantic)   The Wright Brothers' patent for their 1903 flying jalopy has gone missing, and the FBI is on the case because clearly that is the most pressing issue facing us today   (theatlantic.com) divider line 51
    More: Silly, Wright Brothers, FBI, Daily Planet, National Archives, aircraft, airmen, brothers  
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2451 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Nov 2012 at 7:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-12 06:41:12 AM
You do know that historical patent documents like this are worth millions in the hands of international art collectors and aviation historians,right submitter?

Or do you actually think that all the FBI does is chase down "terrorists", arrest people for downloading zero days on Bit Torrent, and investigate the extramarital affairs of the CIA director?
 
2012-11-12 07:27:22 AM
All the FBI does is chase down terrorists, arrest people for downloading on Bittorrent, and investigate government officials.

I'm sure they have time to do this, subby.
 
2012-11-12 07:27:57 AM
The FBI is a pretty large organization and employs thousands of people. They're quite capable of investigating more than one crime at a time.
 
2012-11-12 07:28:44 AM
Did they check Craigslist & eBay?
 
2012-11-12 07:29:33 AM

BronyMedic: You do know that historical patent documents like this are worth millions in the hands of international art collectors and aviation historians,right submitter?

Or do you actually think that all the FBI does is chase down "terrorists", arrest people for downloading zero days on Bit Torrent, and investigate the extramarital affairs of the CIA director?


I was actually going to say its refreshing to see the FBI take an interest in something that was terrorism or drugs
 
2012-11-12 07:33:23 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: All the FBI does is chase down terrorists, arrest people for downloading on Bittorrent, and investigate government officials.

I'm sure they have time to do this, subby.


*shakes tiny interweb fist at!*
 
2012-11-12 07:33:42 AM
Have they questioned this guy yet?

whatculture.com
 
2012-11-12 07:33:53 AM
I can save the FBI some time: it sureas he'll isn't in North Carolina.

/grew up around West 35 in Dayton
 
2012-11-12 07:34:20 AM
The first US airplane in history is a "Jalopy." Right...
 
2012-11-12 07:34:51 AM
Mitchell Yockelson, an investigative archivist for the National Archives Recovery Team

Yeah, he's with the FBI.
 
2012-11-12 07:35:28 AM
First of all, the looting of our National Archives is a tragedy. Do you want our history available for everyone to enjoy, or hidden away by rich misers?

Second, are you really arguing that the FBI should only be working on "the most pressing issue" whatever that is, and ignoring everything else? The whole Bureau for 1 crime? Are you really bad at hyperbole, or just not very bright to begin with?

/Don't answer that second one
 
2012-11-12 07:36:14 AM
It's so strange how anytime anyone is concerned with anything not related to cancer or poverty or starvation, everyone else has to stop what they're doing.

Can Fark develop some kind of meme to shame submitters into an appreciation for how complex the world is? I like to think of them attempting a puzzle, and stopping at the first piece they pick up, infuriated that it doesn't show what's on the box.
 
2012-11-12 07:38:00 AM
Just another link in the keep-Petraeus-from-testifying conspiracy.
 
2012-11-12 07:38:09 AM
By all means, let's rank those things in order of importance subby. And then, all FBI resources should be put on #1 until it is resolved, then they should work on the new #1 ad infinitude.

See "Still no cure for cancer" for similar idiotic thinking.
 
2012-11-12 07:39:59 AM

sidcart42: It's so strange how anytime anyone is concerned with anything not related to cancer or poverty or starvation, everyone else has to stop what they're doing.

Can Fark develop some kind of meme to shame submitters into an appreciation for how complex the world is? I like to think of them attempting a puzzle, and stopping at the first piece they pick up, infuriated that it doesn't show what's on the box.


Sadly when this happens, they often go crying to the mods and get themselves and anyone arguing with them a 24 hour time out for trolling and threadjacking. So, the simple answer is no.

Unless you want to "donate" to Drew's liquor stockpile, that is. :)
 
2012-11-12 07:43:15 AM

heypete: The FBI is a pretty large organization and employs thousands of people. They're quite capable of investigating more than one crime at a time.


Keep believing what the liberal media is feeding you, this is just another distraction from Benghazi...

Ok, ok, I can't keep a straight face. bahahahahaha
 
2012-11-12 07:45:13 AM
 
2012-11-12 07:47:20 AM

LordOfThePings: Mitchell Yockelson, an investigative archivist for the National Archives Recovery Team

Yeah, he's with the FBI.


Yep, federal agent doesn't automatically mean FBI
 
2012-11-12 07:47:21 AM
flying machine.
go.sky.com
 
2012-11-12 07:47:55 AM

WorkingInParadise: Patent theft? Wanted for questioning:


came for this.. leaving satisfied.
 
2012-11-12 07:50:16 AM
I'll throw in the Nirvana fallacy.

"The FBI can't solve every crime, so why bother with this one?"
 
2012-11-12 07:50:26 AM
i226.photobucket.com
A clue!
 
2012-11-12 07:51:40 AM

Sybarite: That's an interesting list of missing stuff.


Wow, a copy of FDR's Infamy speech, arguably the most important presidential address of the 20th century. I'd rather have the FBI look for that then catfight emails over "Balls Deep" Patraeus.
 
2012-11-12 07:52:24 AM
Apple probably acquired it.
Expect all the major aircraft manufacturers to be sued shortly.
 
2012-11-12 07:55:49 AM
Your headline is bad and you should feel bad, Submitter.

/it was Top Grunge
 
2012-11-12 07:58:31 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Apple probably acquired it.
Expect all the major aircraft manufacturers to be sued shortly.


This
 
2012-11-12 08:02:01 AM
The FBI aren't involved, jerkassubmitter. Learn to read.
 
2012-11-12 08:09:56 AM

ubermensch: The FBI aren't involved, jerkassubmitter. Learn to read.


That's because

AverageAmericanGuy: All the FBI does is chase down terrorists, arrest people for downloading on Bittorrent, and investigate government officials.

 
2012-11-12 08:17:22 AM
*looks at patent photo*

Wow, they were so specific back then. In today's patent market they could have just went for "flight capable thingy with rounded corners"
 
2012-11-12 08:20:03 AM
Oooooh. OOOOOOOOOH. I get to drag out this gem, because Patents are involved. And the Wright brothers.

In 1906 the Wrights received a patent for their method of flight control which they fiercely defended for years afterward, suing foreign and domestic aviators and companies, especially another U.S. aviation pioneer, Glenn Curtiss, in an attempt to collect licensing fees. Their legal threats suppressed development of the U.S. aviation industry for several years. Letters that Wilbur Wright wrote to Octave Chanute in January 1910 offer a glimpse into the Wrights' feeling about their proprietary work: "It is not disputed that every person who is using this system today owes it to us and to us alone. The French aviators freely admit it."[4] In another letter Wilbur said: "It is our view that morally the world owes its almost universal use of our system of lateral control entirely to us. It is also our opinion that legally it owes it to us."[5]
The patent war stalled the development of the American aviation industry. In response, after the beginning of World War I, the U.S. Government pressured its aviation industry to form an organization that allowed the sharing of aviation patents.

Just thought I'd leave that there for the usual patent deepthroaters.
 
2012-11-12 08:23:49 AM
Dear Boeing,

As current holder for the Patent "Powered Flight using Wings and Stuff" You are in violation of of Federal Law. My many lawyers would like to talk to you about your ongoing production of fixed winged aircraft and how that violates my copyright.

Just fill one of your hangars with $100 bills and leave the keys down the street at the Waffle House. Wanda (tall white Wanda, not Fat (black or white) Wanda) will hold the keys for me. Just tell her they're for the "RV".

Do this and you can get back to making airplanes. If not, the lawyers will deploy to your Chicago HQ. There will be some many of 'em, you won't even be able to get air in to the building. You know, filling a hangar full of cash will be a lot cheaper than losing a coupe of days of production fighting a lawsuit.

Harry Freakstorm
I didn't invent flight. I just figured out how to make a hangar full of money off of it.
 
2012-11-12 08:24:36 AM
Dipmitter...The FBI has more than high-profile cases. Movies /= real life.
 
2012-11-12 08:26:41 AM

WorkingInParadise: Patent theft? Wanted for questioning:
[www.findthatlogo.com image 200x200]


Interesting that you bring Apple up. The Wright Brothers were very secretive about their inventions, while others in the field were sharing technology freely, including sharing with the Wrights. The key Wright Brother's patent, having to do with warping the wings to provide aerodynamic control was made obsolete by the invention of the aileron only a few years later. (Actually most of the Wright's "key" technologies were obsolete before the end of the decade.) That didn't stop them from trying to apply their patent to ALL methods for controlling flight. In fact, their patent contains several phrases similar to "this should not be construed to limit the applicability of this patent to the implementation described herein." They sued just about everyone who was trying to build an airplane for sale or exhibition (for profit) for the next 15 years. They did have some success in the courts, convincing judges that their overly broad wording in their patent was legitimate. This had a bit of a dampening effect on innovation in aviation for a while, but they were not ultimately successful in securing a monopoly on heavier than air flying machines. In the end, WWI blew the industry wide open.

Also note that just before the Wright's demonstration in Kittyhawk, a guy named Langley was all set to do a demonstration of a catapult launched airplane from a barge on the Patomic. The catapult had a mechanical failure and the aircraft was damaged on launch and failed to attain controlled flight. That wouldn't be worth mentioning except that this guy had demonstrated numerous pilot-less airplanes over the prior years. Some had actually traveled further than the wright's aircraft did on it's maiden voyage. It is reasonable to believe that this one had a decent chance at success. I only bring this up to highlight that the Wrights were not the only ones working on this at the time.
 
2012-11-12 08:29:27 AM

jeffowl: WorkingInParadise: Patent theft? Wanted for questioning:
[www.findthatlogo.com image 200x200]

Interesting that you bring Apple up. The Wright Brothers were very secretive about their inventions, while others in the field were sharing technology freely, including sharing with the Wrights. The key Wright Brother's patent, having to do with warping the wings to provide aerodynamic control was made obsolete by the invention of the aileron only a few years later. (Actually most of the Wright's "key" technologies were obsolete before the end of the decade.) That didn't stop them from trying to apply their patent to ALL methods for controlling flight. In fact, their patent contains several phrases similar to "this should not be construed to limit the applicability of this patent to the implementation described herein." They sued just about everyone who was trying to build an airplane for sale or exhibition (for profit) for the next 15 years. They did have some success in the courts, convincing judges that their overly broad wording in their patent was legitimate. This had a bit of a dampening effect on innovation in aviation for a while, but they were not ultimately successful in securing a monopoly on heavier than air flying machines. In the end, WWI blew the industry wide open.

Also note that just before the Wright's demonstration in Kittyhawk, a guy named Langley was all set to do a demonstration of a catapult launched airplane from a barge on the Patomic. The catapult had a mechanical failure and the aircraft was damaged on launch and failed to attain controlled flight. That wouldn't be worth mentioning except that this guy had demonstrated numerous pilot-less airplanes over the prior years. Some had actually traveled further than the wright's aircraft did on it's maiden voyage. It is reasonable to believe that this one had a decent chance at success. I only bring this up to highlight that the Wrights were not the only ones working on this at the time.


Largely due to the fact that the government got tired of their shiat and made them pool patents so they could actually build planes and innovate.

Lesson here is don't piss off the government.
 
2012-11-12 08:31:50 AM
This is bad news... for Obama Teddy Roosevelt
 
2012-11-12 08:48:24 AM
I must be chronically late today.
Showed up to unload on Subby -
That's been taken care of too.

Thanks everyone for taking care of my light work.
'preciate it.
M.

0/2
 
2012-11-12 08:52:08 AM

Kinek: jeffowl: WorkingInParadise: Patent theft? Wanted for questioning:
[www.findthatlogo.com image 200x200]

Interesting that you bring Apple up. The Wright Brothers were very secretive about their inventions, while others in the field were sharing technology freely, including sharing with the Wrights. The key Wright Brother's patent, having to do with warping the wings to provide aerodynamic control was made obsolete by the invention of the aileron only a few years later. (Actually most of the Wright's "key" technologies were obsolete before the end of the decade.) That didn't stop them from trying to apply their patent to ALL methods for controlling flight. In fact, their patent contains several phrases similar to "this should not be construed to limit the applicability of this patent to the implementation described herein." They sued just about everyone who was trying to build an airplane for sale or exhibition (for profit) for the next 15 years. They did have some success in the courts, convincing judges that their overly broad wording in their patent was legitimate. This had a bit of a dampening effect on innovation in aviation for a while, but they were not ultimately successful in securing a monopoly on heavier than air flying machines. In the end, WWI blew the industry wide open.

Also note that just before the Wright's demonstration in Kittyhawk, a guy named Langley was all set to do a demonstration of a catapult launched airplane from a barge on the Patomic. The catapult had a mechanical failure and the aircraft was damaged on launch and failed to attain controlled flight. That wouldn't be worth mentioning except that this guy had demonstrated numerous pilot-less airplanes over the prior years. Some had actually traveled further than the wright's aircraft did on it's maiden voyage. It is reasonable to believe that this one had a decent chance at success. I only bring this up to highlight that the Wrights were not the only ones working on this at the ...


It had more to do with the fact that patents then as now have a limited life and after the patent expires anyone is free to make , use or sell a device that the patent would read on.
 
2012-11-12 08:52:31 AM
So, the entire agency should only work on the single most pressing issue? Since theft from the National Archives will never be the most pressing issue then it should never be investigated? If only there was some way to have part of the agency work on one thing and a second part work on another and a third part work on.....

Nah, that's just crazy talk.
 
2012-11-12 08:56:11 AM

ajeoae: *looks at patent photo*

Wow, they were so specific back then. In today's patent market they could have just went for "flight capable thingy with rounded corners"


Back then, too... Here's Design Patent #1, claiming ornamented "double small pica" or 21-point type.
 
2012-11-12 08:58:50 AM

sdd2000: Kinek: jeffowl: WorkingInParadise: Patent theft? Wanted for questioning:
[www.findthatlogo.com image 200x200]

Interesting that you bring Apple up. The Wright Brothers were very secretive about their inventions, while others in the field were sharing technology freely, including sharing with the Wrights. The key Wright Brother's patent, having to do with warping the wings to provide aerodynamic control was made obsolete by the invention of the aileron only a few years later. (Actually most of the Wright's "key" technologies were obsolete before the end of the decade.) That didn't stop them from trying to apply their patent to ALL methods for controlling flight. In fact, their patent contains several phrases similar to "this should not be construed to limit the applicability of this patent to the implementation described herein." They sued just about everyone who was trying to build an airplane for sale or exhibition (for profit) for the next 15 years. They did have some success in the courts, convincing judges that their overly broad wording in their patent was legitimate. This had a bit of a dampening effect on innovation in aviation for a while, but they were not ultimately successful in securing a monopoly on heavier than air flying machines. In the end, WWI blew the industry wide open.

Also note that just before the Wright's demonstration in Kittyhawk, a guy named Langley was all set to do a demonstration of a catapult launched airplane from a barge on the Patomic. The catapult had a mechanical failure and the aircraft was damaged on launch and failed to attain controlled flight. That wouldn't be worth mentioning except that this guy had demonstrated numerous pilot-less airplanes over the prior years. Some had actually traveled further than the wright's aircraft did on it's maiden voyage. It is reasonable to believe that this one had a decent chance at success. I only bring this up to highlight that the Wrights were not the only ones working on this ...


Except that when the pool was formed, the patent had not yet expired. So no. That's wrong. Try again.
 
2012-11-12 09:02:53 AM
Check this guy's pants -
i1180.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-12 09:04:26 AM

Mangoose: BronyMedic: You do know that historical patent documents like this are worth millions in the hands of international art collectors and aviation historians,right submitter?

Or do you actually think that all the FBI does is chase down "terrorists", arrest people for downloading zero days on Bit Torrent, and investigate the extramarital affairs of the CIA director?

I was actually going to say its refreshing to see the FBI take an interest in something that was terrorism or drugs


CSB
I wanted to be in the FBI when I grew up. Until I watched agents having to dig up a septic tank looking for a typewrighter. And ......it wasn't there.

I decided I would just sell ponies to orphan bulimia patients with necrosis instead.
 
2012-11-12 09:04:59 AM
The document was returned to the Archives in 1979, and somebody there remembers laying eyes on it in 1980... When curators began planning a commemoration of the Centennial of Flight, in 2003, the patent file had vanished.

(a)They've been looking for it for 9 years and haven't made a big deal about its absence it before?
(b)Before that, the last time anybody cared to even look at it was 32 years ago?

Yes, that is obviously regarded as absolutely priceless.
 
2012-11-12 09:12:24 AM
Have they looked behind the fridge? Sometimes stuff falls down back there.
 
2012-11-12 09:25:26 AM
Wow, BOTH target maps for the atomic attacks are missing, as is the 44th BG's post-action report on Ploesti. Might start the search in Japan for the first two; as to the Ploesti report, I wonder if it somehow wound up over at the US Air Force Museum in Dayton?
 
2012-11-12 09:25:38 AM

Tarmangani: The document was returned to the Archives in 1979, and somebody there remembers laying eyes on it in 1980... When curators began planning a commemoration of the Centennial of Flight, in 2003, the patent file had vanished.

(a)They've been looking for it for 9 years and haven't made a big deal about its absence it before?
(b)Before that, the last time anybody cared to even look at it was 32 years ago?

Yes, that is obviously regarded as absolutely priceless.


Just because you have no personal interest in history doesn't mean that history isn't important or in this case valuable.

Go back to your video game son.
 
2012-11-12 10:01:19 AM

meatsack_01: Tarmangani: The document was returned to the Archives in 1979, and somebody there remembers laying eyes on it in 1980... When curators began planning a commemoration of the Centennial of Flight, in 2003, the patent file had vanished.

(a)They've been looking for it for 9 years and haven't made a big deal about its absence it before?
(b)Before that, the last time anybody cared to even look at it was 32 years ago?

Yes, that is obviously regarded as absolutely priceless.

Just because you have no personal interest in history doesn't mean that history isn't important or in this case valuable.

Go back to your video game son.


Oh, make no mistake, friend. I do have a personal interest in history, but I don't think the knuckleheads who lost this (and didn't care enough to even notice) share that interest.
I didn't say it wasn't priceless, I said it wasn't regarded as priceless.
 
2012-11-12 10:10:29 AM
Uh Oh....Apple will patent the airplane, and sue everyone that ever flew on one LOL.
 
2012-11-12 10:55:24 AM
They were among the first, of many, patent trolls. They ended up either pissing off or pissing on almost anyone involved with aircraft once they got their patent. Even apple would be proud. They even went as far as pissing off long time friends like Chanute who was more than happy to be open about designs and research. In addition he was among their first contacts and supporters. Thus why they really aren't mentioned in aircraft R&D much after 1910, also didn't help that Wilbur died from typhoid that he contracted on a trip, that involved patent lawsuits. His brother gave up and lived out the rest of his life, while being promoters of their invention. One also has to remember the wright flyer was not in the Smithsonian until after Orville died, I think it was added in 1948. They were also involved in a pissing match with with Sam Langley, who was also a pioneer in aviation and who was director of the Smithsonian for some time. He also claimed to have invented the first airplane, if he just made a few modifications that is.

The one thing they actually did is provide a good theory and correct information on aircraft wings. Correct data tables and almost all the modern math for wings. They also came up with the first controllable aircraft as a result and produced efficient propellers in addition to the wings. Many many people were very close to having an aircraft. However none of those craft were very good and lacked either efficiency, power or control. The Wright's NEVER get mentioned for inventing the wind tunnel. That is what gave them the advantage and the prize. As a child the fact that they came up with that device and then built the plane was more impressive. Also It is one of the first exhibits about the Wrights I can recall. 

/if Dayton has to be famous for technology then you have 3 things. Airplanes, Car starters and lots of Ham Radio.
 
2012-11-12 02:21:03 PM

Deep Contact: flying machine.


Flying machine?
An old girlfriend of mine had one of those in her nightstand next to the bed.
 
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