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(Gawker)   The Vatican is really butthurt about U.S. citizens approving gay marriage   (gawker.com) divider line 221
    More: Obvious, U.S., U.S. citizens, Vatican Radio  
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12305 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Nov 2012 at 4:13 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-11 10:13:31 PM
QFTFA:
"It is clear that in Western countries there is a widespread tendency to modify the classic vision of marriage between a man and woman," he (Father Federico Lombardi) said. "Or rather to try to give it up, erasing its specific and privileged legal recognition compared to other forms of union."

In Western countries we dont believe in specific legal privileges. Everyone is entitled to the same rights, such as marriage.
 
2012-11-11 11:01:35 PM
Here's an idea: how about you get your staff to stop raping little kids? When you finally agree that molesting children is wrong, then maybe I'll consider the possibility that you might have some moral authority. But as long as you keep allowing your staff to keel brutally raping children, and you, personally, make an effort to cover up for their crimes, I'm not really convinced that you're in a position to tell anyone else what is right and what is wrong.

In short, Mr. Ratzinger, please don't hesitate to go f**k yourself.
 
2012-11-11 11:07:40 PM
Unless the right-wingers blow it all up, the biggest questions that will have to be faced (or ignored at great peril) in the coming century or so will be:

1. How does the human race maintain some survivable form of moral conduct in the absence of superstition and Big Religion?

2. How does the human race maintain some survivable form of civil and economic organization in the absence of oligarchs and mindless authoritarians?

3. How does the human race rid itself of those evils?

// Where do you fit in, Father Lombardi?
 
2012-11-11 11:22:33 PM
If we legalized kiddie diddling they'd be throwing a frikkin party
 
2012-11-11 11:51:18 PM
and?
 
2012-11-11 11:52:27 PM
Boo-frickin-hoo.

I don't give a damn about your "special privilege" to keep a group from having the same rights as everyone else. If you can't accept that, then go fark yourselves.
 
2012-11-11 11:56:05 PM
which is fine - I mean nobody ever said that we all had to be ok with gay marriage. But the Vatican doesn't make the rules in this country. they can (and do) set the rules in THEIR nation, and i'm sure they've got a pretty decent influence around the world...but when it comes down to brass tacks, the Vatican gets a say, they don't get their way. the people who live HERE get to decide for themselves what's right and what's legal.
 
2012-11-11 11:58:07 PM
They'll get over it.
 
2012-11-12 12:02:36 AM

Frederick: In Western countries we dont believe in specific legal privileges. Everyone is entitled to the same rights, such as marriage.


Indeed. Last I heard, we were a Constitutionally-limited Republic, not a theocracy. The Vatican can go fark itself.
 
2012-11-12 12:05:59 AM
Do us a favor. Atp worrying about gay marriage and start focussing on the things Jesus actually gave a damn about. Like helping the poor and healing the sick.
 
2012-11-12 12:06:05 AM
Perhaps the Vatican should worry about Rome, and not what folks who aren't Catholic are doing.

That's the issue. Not Catholics. Buddhists. Pagans. Methodists. Lutherans. Unitarians--you know, some of the folks the Catholics ran a Crusade against before they rolled on Jerusalem. The Vatican should worry about what Catholics are doing, and deal with them, and maybe leave governing of a nation that ISN'T Catholic alone. Especially one that is based upon the separation of church and state...

While they're at it, they might want to look a little harder at how their priests are acting within their own churches. Tend to your own knitting. When Bishops aren't moving priests around to keep sexual predators hidden, maybe then they can take a stab at telling folks what is moral or not...
 
2012-11-12 12:07:03 AM

SilentStrider: Do us a favor. Atp worrying about gay marriage and start focussing on the things Jesus actually gave a damn about. Like helping the poor and healing the sick.


Atp? Really? I typed stop, and got atp?
 
2012-11-12 12:08:20 AM

hubiestubert: Perhaps the Vatican should worry about Rome, and not what folks who aren't Catholic are doing.

That's the issue. Not Catholics. Buddhists. Pagans. Methodists. Lutherans. Unitarians--you know, some of the folks the Catholics ran a Crusade against before they rolled on Jerusalem. The Vatican should worry about what Catholics are doing, and deal with them, and maybe leave governing of a nation that ISN'T Catholic alone. Especially one that is based upon the separation of church and state...

While they're at it, they might want to look a little harder at how their priests are acting within their own churches. Tend to your own knitting. When Bishops aren't moving priests around to keep sexual predators hidden, maybe then they can take a stab at telling folks what is moral or not...


Now I'm off to play Assassin's Creed. I feel like killing some of these self-righteous Catholics.
 
2012-11-12 12:12:50 AM

hubiestubert:
While they're at it, they might want to look a little harder at how their priests are acting within their own churches. Tend to your own knitting. When Bishops aren't moving priests around to keep sexual predators hidden, maybe then they can take a stab at telling folks what is moral or not...


the Vatican is really getting worried. they've been seeing a slow decline in influence for a while now - not just with the gay marriage issue but here in the US the explosive growth of various christian and pseudo-christian sects has undermined the authority of the Catholic church in north america. In particular, the refusal to even acknowledge the prosperity gospel heresy or deal with it in any way has cost them power, influence AND money in this country and, to a lesser extent, canada. why go to a catholic church and deal with that icky social justice issue when you could just call yourself 'christian' and hoard cash like a greedy miser and get told God WANTS you to be a rich, evil sociopathic bastard? all the money, none of the guilt. no wonder the Vatican is losing influence.
 
2012-11-12 12:17:14 AM

Weaver95: hubiestubert:
While they're at it, they might want to look a little harder at how their priests are acting within their own churches. Tend to your own knitting. When Bishops aren't moving priests around to keep sexual predators hidden, maybe then they can take a stab at telling folks what is moral or not...

the Vatican is really getting worried. they've been seeing a slow decline in influence for a while now - not just with the gay marriage issue but here in the US the explosive growth of various christian and pseudo-christian sects has undermined the authority of the Catholic church in north america. In particular, the refusal to even acknowledge the prosperity gospel heresy or deal with it in any way has cost them power, influence AND money in this country and, to a lesser extent, canada. why go to a catholic church and deal with that icky social justice issue when you could just call yourself 'christian' and hoard cash like a greedy miser and get told God WANTS you to be a rich, evil sociopathic bastard? all the money, none of the guilt. no wonder the Vatican is losing influence.


No matter what, they were poised to "lose" no matter who won this election. Obama or the Mormon, neither are exactly the Catholic Church's best friend. Though, in fairness, Romney was at least willing to talk out of both sides of his mouth to them...
 
2012-11-12 12:23:06 AM
Don't worry. They'll figure it out 600 years after the rest of the world does, as usual.
 
2012-11-12 12:25:32 AM

hubiestubert:

No matter what, they were poised to "lose" no matter who won this election. Obama or the Mormon, neither are exactly the Catholic Church's best friend. Though, in fairness, Romney was at least willing to talk out of both sides of his mouth to them...


to be honest though, i'm not sure there's much the vatican CAN do about their reversal of fortunes here in the US. oddly enough they aren't the only ones having a rough time in the theology department these days. the US evangelicals are feeling more than a bit scorched after Romney's election night loss.
 
2012-11-12 12:31:27 AM

Weaver95: hubiestubert:

No matter what, they were poised to "lose" no matter who won this election. Obama or the Mormon, neither are exactly the Catholic Church's best friend. Though, in fairness, Romney was at least willing to talk out of both sides of his mouth to them...

to be honest though, i'm not sure there's much the vatican CAN do about their reversal of fortunes here in the US. oddly enough they aren't the only ones having a rough time in the theology department these days. the US evangelicals are feeling more than a bit scorched after Romney's election night loss.


America has never been exactly a bastion for the Catholics, not with such a strong Protestant population, and that pesky "freedom of religion" has meant that they can't simply bully folks to get their way. There is a coalition between the Catholics and Protestants on issues like abortion and birth control, but that is tenuous at best. They can ally on some things, but in the end, they're competitors for a market...
 
2012-11-12 12:32:44 AM
And the gap between the Catholic hierarchy and practicing Catholics grows wider. So it goes.
 
2012-11-12 12:33:09 AM

hubiestubert:
America has never been exactly a bastion for the Catholics, not with such a strong Protestant population, and that pesky "freedom of religion" has meant that they can't simply bully folks to get their way. There is a coalition between the Catholics and Protestants on issues like abortion and birth control, but that is tenuous at best. They can ally on some things, but in the end, they're competitors for a market...


so long as their religious conflicts don't become violent, I honestly don't care what our various christian sects say about one another.
 
2012-11-12 12:34:16 AM

hubiestubert: Weaver95: hubiestubert:

No matter what, they were poised to "lose" no matter who won this election. Obama or the Mormon, neither are exactly the Catholic Church's best friend. Though, in fairness, Romney was at least willing to talk out of both sides of his mouth to them...

to be honest though, i'm not sure there's much the vatican CAN do about their reversal of fortunes here in the US. oddly enough they aren't the only ones having a rough time in the theology department these days. the US evangelicals are feeling more than a bit scorched after Romney's election night loss.

America has never been exactly a bastion for the Catholics, not with such a strong Protestant population, and that pesky "freedom of religion" has meant that they can't simply bully folks to get their way. There is a coalition between the Catholics and Protestants on issues like abortion and birth control, but that is tenuous at best. They can ally on some things, but in the end, they're competitors for a market...


Why. do you think, does every minority group suddenly find themselves blessed with a candidate for sainthood lately?

/it's like a frikkin miracle
 
2012-11-12 12:36:53 AM

SnarfVader: They'll get over it.


They'll get over it.
 
2012-11-12 12:44:18 AM

Weaver95: hubiestubert:
America has never been exactly a bastion for the Catholics, not with such a strong Protestant population, and that pesky "freedom of religion" has meant that they can't simply bully folks to get their way. There is a coalition t's between the Catholics and Protestants on issues like abortion and birth control, but that is tenuous at best. They can ally on some things, but in the end, they're competitors for a market...

so long as their religious conflicts don't become violent, I honestly don't care what our various christian sects say about one another.


I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian, and my Church's hierarchy has abandoned its mission. "Free will" is a Catholic tenet, and if you get an abortion, use birth control or get gay married, that's between you and God. Christ never told us to outlaw sin, just told us to forgive the sinner.
 
2012-11-12 12:44:54 AM
The Church's inability to see their way towards sanctioning treating gay folks the same way anyone would want to be treated ie. like full citizens with equal rights tells me a few things.

A) They neither get nor practice the core message of Jesus' teachings.
B) Their relevancy and moral authority will likely continue to erode even past their current low levels.
C) They cynically recognize that a lot of their priests are self-loathing closeted gay men who pursue a religious calling in order to escape persecution and that normalizing gay people into general society will cut into those flagging numbers even further.

Atheist/Recovering Catholic.
 
2012-11-12 12:45:08 AM
i.imgur.com

Meh. You have no power here.
 
2012-11-12 12:46:06 AM
Wading through all of the somewhat confusing and often contradictory text of the Bible, which was assembled by men, who were under the influences of their times, I might point out that God made Man in His own image.

I think the intentions were good, but over the centuries, there seems to have been a few mutations as I've seen some scary looking folks out there.

Any how, God made everything, which goes along with Intelligent Design. That means He created homosexuality for a specific reason. After all, homosexuals did not request to be born Gay, just as Heterosexuals did not ask to be born men or women.

Along came Man who took 'The Word' and promptly interpreted it, changed it, 'adjusted it' and frequently, badly translated it from the original Hebrew. (Patricidal Society, remember. Men were basically GODS. Women were slaves and property. Children were valued even less and could be killed if they pi$$ed off Dad. With no consequences.)
We all know how easy it is to distort a religion's values, twisting them to suite the desires of the Holy Leaders. (That whole no masturbation thing or God will punish you bit. Taken out of context. The masturbator was punished, but only because he refused a direct order by God to impregnate the wife of another man and 'spilled his seed upon the ground'. God struck him blind for his defiance. That doesn't mean it's a sin to wank your winkie.)

[Insert much repeated theory of why God created homosexuality and much repeated reasons why humans are genetically programmed to be repelled by same sex unions. Toss in the 'Great Prison Contradiction'.]

However, it all boils down to homosexuals being programmed to be homosexual. They can't change it just like no one can change their skin color. Genetics gives you your skin hue, eye and hair color, body size and type and plays a hefty role in your psychology. Which is why Crazy can run in family lines along with certain illnesses.

I recall when folks hated the following and had scores of reasons to do so: the Irish, the Chinese, the Italians, the Blacks and the Brits. There was a bit of a war fought between the north and the south, with each side despising the other, no matter what color they were.

Then I recall the Vatican getting involved with fleeing German war criminals, helping them to escape Germany. I also recall them not doing a whole heck of a lot to stand up against Hitler slaughtering the Jews.

They had their reasons, but that doesn't make them right.

Just as this stupidity over homosexuals isn't right.

The Bible also says you shouldn't steal. Folks do. All of the time. You shouldn't fool with a married person. A shiat load of folks ignore that one. You should honor your Mom and Dad -- and today the majority dump them in nursing homes to die less noisily since caring for them in their homes is a chore. You shouldn't bare false witness, but folks lie in court daily.

I don't notice anyone preventing them from their right to marriage. Those are supposed to be as big a sin as a man laying with a man as a woman or a woman laying with a woman as a man.

Don't forget, you shouldn't take the Lord's name in vain which basically means about 99.999% of FARKer's are already damned.

Oh, yeah. There's this little thing about Jesus dieing on the cross for our sins. According to many religious leaders, that means our sins are forgiven -- before we commit them. Technically. The concept can be a bit confusing since the creation of Hell and the Devil and all.

Homosexuals, technically, have been forgiven also.

Chew on that for a bit.
 
2012-11-12 12:47:47 AM

simplicimus:
I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian, and my Church's hierarchy has abandoned its mission. "Free will" is a Catholic tenet, and if you get an abortion, use birth control or get gay married, that's between you and God. Christ never told us to outlaw sin, just told us to forgive the sinner.


i'm starting to wonder if the pagans have it right - there's more than ONE god out there and they all might be equally valid. meh - like I said, so long as it stays non-violent it's all good.
 
2012-11-12 12:52:35 AM

Weaver95: simplicimus:
I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian, and my Church's hierarchy has abandoned its mission. "Free will" is a Catholic tenet, and if you get an abortion, use birth control or get gay married, that's between you and God. Christ never told us to outlaw sin, just told us to forgive the sinner.

i'm starting to wonder if the pagans have it right - there's more than ONE god out there and they all might be equally valid. meh - like I said, so long as it stays non-violent it's all good.


Oh, heck, as a Catholic I have three Gods for the price of one. One for vengeance, one for forgiveness and one for wisdom.
 
2012-11-12 12:59:24 AM

simplicimus: I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian


Interesting. I am agnostic so maybe that is why I dont understand the schisms. I thought believing in the teachings of Christ made one a Christian.
 
2012-11-12 01:02:13 AM
Rik01:
Too much text too copy for my browser. However Don't forget, you shouldn't take the Lord's name in vain which basically means about 99.999% of FARKer's are already damned. According to the Talmud that means don't make promises to God you won't keep, and has nothing to do with profanity.
 
2012-11-12 01:05:14 AM

Frederick: simplicimus: I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian

Interesting. I am agnostic so maybe that is why I dont understand the schisms. I thought believing in the teachings of Christ made one a Christian.


No, practicing the teachings of Christ would make one a Christian, but very few people do that.
 
2012-11-12 01:06:59 AM
This makes me want to get gay married just to piss him off.
 
2012-11-12 01:14:30 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: If we legalized kiddie diddling they'd be throwing a frikkin party


No, they'd be saying it was wrong for you to do it.
 
2012-11-12 01:22:28 AM

Frederick: simplicimus: I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian

Interesting. I am agnostic so maybe that is why I dont understand the schisms. I thought believing in the teachings of Christ made one a Christian.


Ok, here's the current schisms from Catholicism:
Anglican/Episcopalian: Henry 8 needed an male heir. Catherine of Aragon didn't come through, Henry wanted an annulment, Pope said no, so Henry started his own religion. Basically Catholicism w/o a Pope.
Lutheran: Martin Luther, a monk, wanted to get some strange, ended up marrying an ex-nun. Also had some gripes about Catholic fund raising methods.
Methodist: Earn your way into heaven through good deeds (nice group of people as far as heretics go)
Then Calvinism, Anabaptists, and the rest and the whole religion falls apart.
 
2012-11-12 01:40:54 AM

This About That: Unless the right-wingers blow it all up, the biggest questions that will have to be faced (or ignored at great peril) in the coming century or so will be:

1. How does the human race maintain some survivable form of moral conduct in the absence of superstition and Big Religion?


Call me crazy, but I'd go for something along the lines of "by having people be held accountable by the rules and laws of their societies". Yes these are dynamic and may change with times, but judging by the history of human rights, it seems like the overall trend has been moving in the right direction of equal rights for everyone. Usually in spite of superstition and religion. So, based on the history of human rights, I'd say moral conduct will in the end be better off without religion constantly holding changes for the better back.

2. How does the human race maintain some survivable form of civil and economic organization in the absence of oligarchs and mindless authoritarians?

Even if #1 were to become the case, I don't think these things would go away, so I'm not sure of the utility of this question. I'd say, the same as usual, doing the best they can while dealing with both internal and external economic factors. Making sure the population is educated and understands their part of the social contract would probably go a long way towards keeping things economically stable.

3. How does the human race rid itself of those evils?

Unfortunately, we probably don't. Maintaining an educated position on all aspects of society is exhausting and at least impractical, if not impossible. There will always be people who will be willing to let someone else do the thinking for them, and there will be those who believe against all evidence that the people they choose are the best and everyone else is wrong, or the system they are in is the best and can do no wrong.

I doubt this aspect of human nature will ever change.

SilentStrider: Atp? Really? I typed stop, and got atp?


Never underestimate the power of adenosine triphosphate.

Anyway, to the Pope: Yeah? GOOD! I'd sooner take moral guidance from that inanimate rock over there than from your church. At least the rock has no problem with equal rights for all regardless of gender, sexuality, ethnic group, skin color, religion (or lackthereof), or any other aspect of humanity.
 
2012-11-12 02:15:53 AM
I came here for the "So do the Alter Boys" comment


Left feeling like Father Flanagan should not have touched me there
 
2012-11-12 02:18:10 AM
Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?
 
2012-11-12 02:19:12 AM
www.mopo.ca
 
2012-11-12 02:22:23 AM

alienated: Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?


Well, according to a recent poll, 60% of Catholics are saying "Well man, that's like just your opinion".
 
2012-11-12 02:28:01 AM

simplicimus: alienated: Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?

Well, according to a recent poll, 60% of Catholics are saying "Well man, that's like just your opinion".


Fine.Question still stands. , - thats how they roll ...
 
2012-11-12 02:36:20 AM

alienated: simplicimus: alienated: Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?

Well, according to a recent poll, 60% of Catholics are saying "Well man, that's like just your opinion".

Fine.Question still stands. , - thats how they roll ...


Well, very few do. 31% of the 24% of the population of the US that identifies as Catholic cares. Too tired to do the math.
 
2012-11-12 03:02:24 AM

Weaver95: which is fine - I mean nobody ever said that we all had to be ok with gay marriage. But the Vatican doesn't make the rules in this country. they can (and do) set the rules in THEIR nation, and i'm sure they've got a pretty decent influence around the world...but when it comes down to brass tacks, the Vatican gets a say, they don't get their way. the people who live HERE get to decide for themselves what's right and what's legal.


More Specifically Weaver, they can set up the rules for their Religion. As long as this country does not force them to go against their religion, they should force their religion on us.
 
2012-11-12 03:08:18 AM

simplicimus: alienated: simplicimus: alienated: Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?

Well, according to a recent poll, 60% of Catholics are saying "Well man, that's like just your opinion".

Fine.Question still stands. , - thats how they roll ...

Well, very few do. 31% of the 24% of the population of the US that identifies as Catholic cares. Too tired to do the math.


In all fairness, American Catholics really rarely listen to Rome.

Mainly because of the Confession loopholes,
 
2012-11-12 03:14:00 AM

Darth_Lukecash: simplicimus: alienated: simplicimus: alienated: Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?

Well, according to a recent poll, 60% of Catholics are saying "Well man, that's like just your opinion".

Fine.Question still stands. , - thats how they roll ...

Well, very few do. 31% of the 24% of the population of the US that identifies as Catholic cares. Too tired to do the math.

In all fairness, American Catholics really rarely listen to Rome.

Mainly because of the Confession loopholes,


Heh. I haven't been to confession since 1976. I have sins I don't regret and I'm not going to be a hypocrite about it.
 
2012-11-12 04:20:36 AM
Nice one Subby. Butthurt.

i was raised Catholic.
i don't really like being Catholic.
 
2012-11-12 04:21:26 AM
Polygamy? I'm fine with it
Polyandry? I'm fine with it
Never getting marked? I'm fine with it
I draw the line at informed, consenting adults.
Some things really are simple.
 
2012-11-12 04:22:45 AM
I'm sorry, I have a hard time hearing you over the cries of the children raped by priests you're protecting, Bishop.
 
2012-11-12 04:24:14 AM

propasaurus: [www.mopo.ca image 326x396]


Jack McGurkin...

Sophomoric, perhaps, but I LOL'd.
 
2012-11-12 04:24:18 AM
They're only upset because now when they molest little boys they'll have to promise to marry them when they're 18.

That takes the thrill out of the abuse for them.
 
2012-11-12 04:25:30 AM
And if this was the Holy Roman Empire, that would mean something.
 
2012-11-12 04:27:45 AM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-12 04:27:45 AM
If there was ever such a need to have a Pope "son I am disappoint" JPG.
 
2012-11-12 04:29:54 AM

Ed Finnerty: They're only upset because now when they molest little boys they'll have to promise to marry them when they're 18.

That takes the thrill out of the abuse for them.


Once more, Vow of Chastity means no sex, Vow of Celibacy means no marriage, For a cleric, violation of either should result in defrocking and excommunication. But apparently the Church doesn't play by their own rules.
 
2012-11-12 04:36:10 AM
The villain is... Europe? Really, Gawker? You know that the Vatican is a tiny little city state inside Italy, which itself is a country in Europe? Which in many parts is not even remotely Catholic.
Way to perpetuate the sterotype about the geography-illiterate USA.
 
2012-11-12 04:36:53 AM
I guess they are pissed off they are now just pedophiles and nobody cares that they are gay too.

/bunch of child raping pedophiles
//Why should I care what a pedophile has to say about religion?
///Because he wears a funny pedophile hat?
 
2012-11-12 04:38:39 AM

undulat: The villain is... Europe? Really, Gawker? You know that the Vatican is a tiny little city state inside Italy, which itself is a country in Europe? Which in many parts is not even remotely Catholic.
Way to perpetuate the sterotype about the geography-illiterate USA.


If Europe had any farking decency they would have bombed the Vatican decades ago tbh.

Why do you let an organization based entirely on farking little boys in the ass exist near you at all?
 
2012-11-12 04:40:09 AM

Just another Heartland Weirdass: Polygamy? I'm fine with it
Polyandry? I'm fine with it
Never getting marked? I'm fine with it
I draw the line at informed, consenting adults.
Some things really are simple.


While I agree in principle, I completely disagree with your assessment that poly-marriage is simple. Legally, it would be a nightmare. Especially when it came to divorce, and even more especially if a partner only wanted to divorce one of the members of the union and not the others.

Codify that!
 
2012-11-12 04:41:24 AM

simplicimus: Once more, Vow of Chastity means no sex, Vow of Celibacy means no marriage, For a cleric, violation of either should result in defrocking and excommunication. But apparently the Church doesn't play by their own rules.


The rules say you can only have sex while married.

Therefore raping children you are not married to is not sex.

It's not hard logic to follow.
 
2012-11-12 04:41:58 AM
He went on to say, "If not, why not contemplate also freely chosen polygamy

Like, for example, Solomon.

/what 'achievement' of which 'civilisation'?
 
2012-11-12 04:42:05 AM

XplodedSynapses: Nice one Subby. Butthurt.


I think you mean "Nice one Myles Tanzer, author of the linked article, or possibly other author of the linked article's headline," but then again, I can be quite a pedant.

/no, Ratzinger, I said pedant
 
2012-11-12 04:42:35 AM

fluffy2097: simplicimus: Once more, Vow of Chastity means no sex, Vow of Celibacy means no marriage, For a cleric, violation of either should result in defrocking and excommunication. But apparently the Church doesn't play by their own rules.

The rules say you can only have sex while married.

Therefore raping children you are not married to is not sex.

It's not hard logic to follow.


It is "Illegitimate rape" so to speak?
 
2012-11-12 04:44:52 AM
FTA: "The Church is the only institution to say that, while persecuting homosexuals in undoubtedly unjust, opposing marriage between people of the same sex is a point of view that must be respected," the Vatican newspaper editorial said.

Perhaps the reason they are the only institution to say that is because they are wrong. Not that such a concept would ever enter their minds, of course. Catholics, sadly, believe some damn crazy shiat.
 
2012-11-12 04:45:04 AM

The Southern Dandy: fluffy2097: simplicimus: Once more, Vow of Chastity means no sex, Vow of Celibacy means no marriage, For a cleric, violation of either should result in defrocking and excommunication. But apparently the Church doesn't play by their own rules.

The rules say you can only have sex while married.

Therefore raping children you are not married to is not sex.

It's not hard logic to follow.

It is "Illegitimate rape" so to speak?


Well the boys don't get pregnant, now do they?
 
2012-11-12 04:45:21 AM

The Southern Dandy: It is "Illegitimate rape" so to speak?


It's not rape, legitimate or otherwise if the person you're sticking your dick into doesn't know it's wrong.

/cum with me my child, I want to show you the instrument of god's will.
 
2012-11-12 04:45:42 AM

Weaver95: so long as their religious conflicts don't become violent, I honestly don't care what our various christian sects say about one another.


As long as the rest of us don't get hurt, I'm perfectly fine with religious extremists killing each other.
 
2012-11-12 04:47:16 AM

Ilmarinen: The Southern Dandy: fluffy2097: simplicimus: Once more, Vow of Chastity means no sex, Vow of Celibacy means no marriage, For a cleric, violation of either should result in defrocking and excommunication. But apparently the Church doesn't play by their own rules.

The rules say you can only have sex while married.

Therefore raping children you are not married to is not sex.

It's not hard logic to follow.

It is "Illegitimate rape" so to speak?

Well the boys don't get pregnant, now do they?


I meant illegitimate in that, real rape involves sex, so by your logic, this type of rape not being sex, it must be illegitimate rape.
 
2012-11-12 04:49:16 AM

The Southern Dandy: While I agree in principle, I completely disagree with your assessment that poly-marriage is simple. Legally, it would be a nightmare. Especially when it came to divorce, and even more especially if a partner only wanted to divorce one of the members of the union and not the others.

Codify that!


Treat it like a privately-held corporation or partnership. Plenty of legal precedent on how to dissolve an N-member legal entity when one or more members wishes to leave.
 
2012-11-12 04:55:24 AM

SilentStrider: SilentStrider: Do us a favor. Atp worrying about gay marriage and start focussing on the things Jesus actually gave a damn about. Like helping the poor and healing the sick.

Atp? Really? I typed stop, and got atp?


Adenine triphosphate is srs bizns
 
2012-11-12 04:57:48 AM

The Southern Dandy: I meant illegitimate in that, real rape involves sex, so by your logic, this type of rape not being sex, it must be illegitimate rape.


I thought I was going along with the joke.

/oh well
 
2012-11-12 05:02:01 AM
Awwww...wait, let me get my violin so I can play you a tiny sad song...

i950.photobucket.com

/Okay, technically not a violin, but it is pretty teeny.
 
2012-11-12 05:02:07 AM
fark the pope.
 
2012-11-12 05:02:21 AM
farm5.staticflickr.com
 
2012-11-12 05:03:51 AM

mamoru: This About That: Unless the right-wingers blow it all up, the biggest questions that will have to be faced (or ignored at great peril) in the coming century or so will be:

1. How does the human race maintain some survivable form of moral conduct in the absence of superstition and Big Religion?

Call me crazy, but I'd go for something along the lines of "by having people be held accountable by the rules and laws of their societies". Yes these are dynamic and may change with times, but judging by the history of human rights, it seems like the overall trend has been moving in the right direction of equal rights for everyone. Usually in spite of superstition and religion. So, based on the history of human rights, I'd say moral conduct will in the end be better off without religion constantly holding changes for the better back.

2. How does the human race maintain some survivable form of civil and economic organization in the absence of oligarchs and mindless authoritarians?

Even if #1 were to become the case, I don't think these things would go away, so I'm not sure of the utility of this question. I'd say, the same as usual, doing the best they can while dealing with both internal and external economic factors. Making sure the population is educated and understands their part of the social contract would probably go a long way towards keeping things economically stable.

3. How does the human race rid itself of those evils?

Unfortunately, we probably don't. Maintaining an educated position on all aspects of society is exhausting and at least impractical, if not impossible. There will always be people who will be willing to let someone else do the thinking for them, and there will be those who believe against all evidence that the people they choose are the best and everyone else is wrong, or the system they are in is the best and can do no wrong.

I doubt this aspect of human nature will ever change.

SilentStrider: Atp? Really? I typed stop, and got atp?

Never underestimate the power of adenosine triphosphate.

Anyway, to the Pope: Yeah? GOOD! I'd sooner take moral guidance from that inanimate rock over there than from your church. At least the rock has no problem with equal rights for all regardless of gender, sexuality, ethnic group, skin color, religion (or lackthereof), or any other aspect of humanity.


Damnit!
 
2012-11-12 05:05:09 AM

fluffy2097: simplicimus: Once more, Vow of Chastity means no sex, Vow of Celibacy means no marriage, For a cleric, violation of either should result in defrocking and excommunication. But apparently the Church doesn't play by their own rules.

The rules say you can only have sex while married.

Therefore raping children you are not married to is not sex.

It's not hard logic to follow.


What part of the Vow of Chastity do you not understand?
 
2012-11-12 05:06:16 AM
And anyone gives a wet shiat what those assholes think?
 
2012-11-12 05:09:16 AM
This has probably already been said, but the Church lost any moral standing it had when it de facto sanctioned pedophilia instead of airing it's laundry to give closure to victims and divest itself of the perpetrators.
 
2012-11-12 05:09:27 AM

Ed Grubermann: And anyone gives a wet shiat what those assholes think?


Why so anal?

/heh
 
2012-11-12 05:10:01 AM

Ed Grubermann: And anyone gives a wet shiat what those assholes think?


As I explained above, it's important to 31% of the 24% of Americans that are Catholic. So not many.
 
2012-11-12 05:11:33 AM

SilentStrider: SilentStrider: Do us a favor. Atp worrying about gay marriage and start focussing on the things Jesus actually gave a damn about. Like helping the poor and healing the sick.

Atp? Really? I typed stop, and got atp?


Well A is next to S and O is next to P. I expect that all Farkers are pretty quick on the keyboard. Sometimes these things happen. I type some horrific things when my hands are at a slightly wrong angle.
 
2012-11-12 05:11:42 AM
If i have to have a license to get married and it's a right does that make driving a right? Why do they even have marriage livenses any more. Just file at the dmv that you are legally bound together.
 
2012-11-12 05:11:53 AM
Heh! "Butthurt". Heh!

collider.com 

/DNRTFA. Religion - couldn't be bothered.
 
2012-11-12 05:12:43 AM
Suck it, homophobes!
 
2012-11-12 05:15:16 AM

Summoner101: This has probably already been said, but the Church lost any moral standing it had when it de facto sanctioned pedophilia instead of airing it's laundry to give closure to victims and divest itself of the perpetrators.


To repeat myself:
simplicimus: Once more, Vow of Chastity means no sex, Vow of Celibacy means no marriage, For a cleric, violation of either should result in defrocking and excommunication. But apparently the Church doesn't play by their own rules.
 
2012-11-12 05:18:55 AM

clyph: The Southern Dandy: While I agree in principle, I completely disagree with your assessment that poly-marriage is simple. Legally, it would be a nightmare. Especially when it came to divorce, and even more especially if a partner only wanted to divorce one of the members of the union and not the others.

Codify that!

Treat it like a privately-held corporation or partnership. Plenty of legal precedent on how to dissolve an N-member legal entity when one or more members wishes to leave.


Speaking as someone currently in a poly relationship, i'm in total agreement with this.
 
2012-11-12 05:40:44 AM

Darth_Lukecash: simplicimus: alienated: simplicimus: alienated: Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?

Well, according to a recent poll, 60% of Catholics are saying "Well man, that's like just your opinion".

Fine.Question still stands. , - thats how they roll ...

Well, very few do. 31% of the 24% of the population of the US that identifies as Catholic cares. Too tired to do the math.

In all fairness, American Catholics really rarely listen to Rome.

Mainly because of the Confession loopholes,


Well, that the fact that the Church is only infallible when it's talking about faith and morals. The Bishops know farkall about legal theory, justice, or anything else related to the real, testable world.
 
2012-11-12 05:46:35 AM

simplicimus: alienated: simplicimus: alienated: Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?

Well, according to a recent poll, 60% of Catholics are saying "Well man, that's like just your opinion".

Fine.Question still stands. , - thats how they roll ...

Well, very few do. 31% of the 24% of the population of the US that identifies as Catholic cares. Too tired to do the math.


Slightly under 8%.
 
2012-11-12 05:48:39 AM
Fark off, bigots. You and your little fairy sky wizard can go play with yourselves in the corner, while decent people get on with our lives without your incessant need to impose your worldview on us.
 
2012-11-12 05:50:03 AM

Gawdzila: simplicimus: alienated: simplicimus: alienated: Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?

Well, according to a recent poll, 60% of Catholics are saying "Well man, that's like just your opinion".

Fine.Question still stands. , - thats how they roll ...

Well, very few do. 31% of the 24% of the population of the US that identifies as Catholic cares. Too tired to do the math.

Slightly under 8%.


Thanks. So, the Pope's opinion has little real world effect in the US.
 
2012-11-12 05:53:32 AM
So what I'm hearing is that the Catholic church has officially stated that its anti-same-sex-marriage effort is genuinely an unconstitutional movement to enforce one particular religion onto the entire American populace. Because fark those reform Jews and Methodists and UUs and everyone else who practices same-sex marriage, the Catholic religion is the one that should be imposed by law.

Seriously, if you're still a Catholic at this point and giving your time and money to a church that's made it clear that it cares way more about its insane principles than it will ever care about actual human beings, fark you. If you actually support the church's efforts to impose its canon law onto the world, you're supporting an insane, evil thing. If you say you don't, then you're just adding to the problem - why would the church ever change as long as people refuse to leave it?
 
2012-11-12 05:55:18 AM
Fark marriage in general.
 
2012-11-12 05:59:50 AM

gonegirl: So what I'm hearing is that the Catholic church has officially stated that its anti-same-sex-marriage effort is genuinely an unconstitutional movement to enforce one particular religion onto the entire American populace. Because fark those reform Jews and Methodists and UUs and everyone else who practices same-sex marriage, the Catholic religion is the one that should be imposed by law.

Seriously, if you're still a Catholic at this point and giving your time and money to a church that's made it clear that it cares way more about its insane principles than it will ever care about actual human beings, fark you. If you actually support the church's efforts to impose its canon law onto the world, you're supporting an insane, evil thing. If you say you don't, then you're just adding to the problem - why would the church ever change as long as people refuse to leave it?


Being a Catholic is more than spending an hour a week in Church and throwing money in a basket.
Matthew 6:6: But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
 
2012-11-12 06:06:51 AM
American catholicism is such a successful cash cow. Gay marriage leads to people abandoning a religion that forbids it, costing the Vatican dough. Gee..... What a shame.
 
2012-11-12 06:07:25 AM
The Vatican is still pretending to be some kind of moral authority? Hahahaha!
 
2012-11-12 06:20:03 AM
Here's an idea: how about the Vatican starts teaching about acceptance, loving thy neighbour, and all that deprecated bullshiat?
 
2012-11-12 06:23:07 AM
i232.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-12 06:25:01 AM

This About That: 1. How does the human race maintain some survivable form of moral conduct in the absence of superstition and Big Religion?


Muslim civilization was at its best as a society when it was most secular. Conversely, when it descended into barbarism was when folks decided to "get back to basics"- a.k.a.: get back to religion.

What you see today is the result.

I'm not one of these crazy Atheists who'd like to see Religion purged- expunged from society completely (in much the same way those religions often expunged any element of society they didn't care for throughout history), but religious fervor has never been a substitute for carefully-considered (often secularly-minded) ethics.

This whole notion that people who lack religion lack a sense of morality is probably one of the most indefensible stigmas the failthful like to lump on those without a faith. It's wrong. Utterly and totally incorrect. And as many have been keen to point out in this thread- given the rampant amoral excesses of the "righteous" that are often in the news- suggesting that the Catholic Church has even approached cornering the market on moral behavior is- at best- patently hilarious.

This isn't a question we need to answer. We've already answered it. Religions have had some wonderful contributions to some of the key ideas which form our moral foundation as a culture- but these contributions were never theirs alone, and they can exist without the dogmatic trappings that often come with them.

In fact, they often survive better without all that excess baggage.
 
2012-11-12 06:25:36 AM
The vatican is an evil organization, and if they disagree with something we've done or are doing that's a good thing.
 
2012-11-12 06:29:11 AM
Heterosexual marriage greatest achievement of mankind?

/clearly they haven't been to a trailer park
//I keed, I keed, but seriously, marriage being a religious thing is a joke
 
2012-11-12 06:31:30 AM

simplicimus: What part of the Vow of Chastity do you not understand?


It's very simple. There is no sex before marriage. Catholics are very clear on this point.

Therefore, sex before marriage is not sex. Thus it is not a violation of the law of Chastity.

How else can a priest shove his dick up a 5 year old's ass and sleep well at night? He's got God's approval to do it.
 
2012-11-12 06:35:22 AM
HAHAHAHAAAAAAHHHAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAA!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Italy

Recent judicial and political developments on Italian Same-Sex Marriage

In a landmark ruling the Court of Cassation stated on March 15, 2012 that 'same-sex couples have the same right to a family life as married straight couples', adding that 'the judiciary shall grant them the same legal rights as enjoyed under marriage on a case-by-case rule'. Even though the Court's judgments are not binding outside the case decided, lower courts find those judgments persuasive. Whereas the Parliament remains free to introduce same-sex unions or not, the verdict paves the way for such unions to be equivalent to marriage in all but name and for judges to recognize individual rights to cohabiting couples.[7][8] The first right was won by a couple made by an Italian man who married an Uruguayan citizen in Spain.[9] Marriages celebrated abroad will now allow the non-EU national partner to obtain an Italian permanent residence permit.

In May 2012, the Italy of Values political party (Italia dei Valori) became the first party to announce publily that it would push for marriage equality. The party leader, Antonio Di Pietro said, "Our party has been the first in Italy to follow US president Barack Obama. We invite other Italian parties to support gay marriage. You don't have to be shy, you have to say yes".[10]
 
2012-11-12 06:35:51 AM

Weaver95: simplicimus:
I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian, and my Church's hierarchy has abandoned its mission. "Free will" is a Catholic tenet, and if you get an abortion, use birth control or get gay married, that's between you and God. Christ never told us to outlaw sin, just told us to forgive the sinner.

i'm starting to wonder if the pagans have it right - there's more than ONE god out there and they all might be equally valid. meh - like I said, so long as it stays non-violent it's all good.


I've always found it interesting when people "lose faith in god" and then just turn around and worship some other supposed deity. It's like they think they're spitefully choosing one parent over the other or something. It's silliness.

The old testament specifically mentions there being other gods out there. It just says not to worship them.
 
2012-11-12 06:36:02 AM

This About That: Unless the right-wingers blow it all up, the biggest questions that will have to be faced (or ignored at great peril) in the coming century or so will be:

1. How does the human race maintain some survivable form of moral conduct in the absence of superstition and Big Religion?

2. How does the human race maintain some survivable form of civil and economic organization in the absence of oligarchs and mindless authoritarians?

3. How does the human race rid itself of those evils?

// Where do you fit in, Father Lombardi?


Anyone that requires some form of superstition to impose moral conduct is fundamentally broken. If you don't know right from wrong or can't distinguish the difference between good and evil without some bronze-age novel to guide you, you've got no place in modern society.
 
2012-11-12 06:37:07 AM
Yeah, another Fark bigotfest!
 
2012-11-12 06:38:02 AM

SilentStrider: SilentStrider: Do us a favor. Atp worrying about gay marriage and start focussing on the things Jesus actually gave a damn about. Like helping the poor and healing the sick.

Atp? Really? I typed stop, and got atp?


FARK is trying to force you to learn the krebs cycle.

i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-12 06:41:41 AM

simplicimus: Weaver95: hubiestubert:
America has never been exactly a bastion for the Catholics, not with such a strong Protestant population, and that pesky "freedom of religion" has meant that they can't simply bully folks to get their way. There is a coalition t's between the Catholics and Protestants on issues like abortion and birth control, but that is tenuous at best. They can ally on some things, but in the end, they're competitors for a market...

so long as their religious conflicts don't become violent, I honestly don't care what our various christian sects say about one another.

I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian, and my Church's hierarchy has abandoned its mission. "Free will" is a Catholic tenet, and if you get an abortion, use birth control or get gay married, that's between you and God. Christ never told us to outlaw sin, just told us to forgive the sinner.


Catholic is one of the two most dominant sects of Christianity.

If you say "I am not Christian, I am Catholic" you are both wrong and stupid. What YOU think "Christian" means is actually what "Protestant" means.
 
2012-11-12 06:44:21 AM
Why does anyone listen to Senator Palpatine's minions anymore?
 
2012-11-12 06:49:35 AM

Wrencher: Why does anyone listen to Senator Palpatine's minions anymore?


Because fear will keep the local systems in line! Fear and surprise. The two things that will keep the local systems in line are fear and surprise and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope are the three things that... Amongst the things that will keep the local systems in line are...

/We apologize for the fault in the pop culture references. Those responsible have been sacked.
 
2012-11-12 06:51:30 AM
If the Catholics can't win a simple dispute like celebration of 300-year-old military victories in Northern Ireland, then they're God isn't very capable, is He? Why would your God be so impotent, Catholics?

If the Catholic Church does more to protect paedophiles than bring justice to their victims, it's pretty well lost all claim to morality hasn't it? Or do you love paedophiles more than innocent children, Catholics?

The Catholic Church can suck my arse. It's a disgrace to itself and Jesus.

Anyone wishing to dispute this is free to do so. Why am I wrong? Catholics? Please tell me. I support gay marriage. I'm a happily married heterosexual who got married in a very nice garden, not a church. I have no problem with 'Adam and Steve' getting married and moving in next door. The only people who would have a problem with this are either bigoted or secretly gay but got married in line with Catholic tradition (as opposed to becoming a Catholic priest instead), and who would be threatened by such an outcome. This latest diatribe is a pathetic but predictable response by this bunch of losers who are well-known for their protection of paedophiles. Their attempts at moral superiority are disgusting and make me ill.
 
2012-11-12 06:56:18 AM
How cute. They think the United States in 2012 is a backward European province from the 1600s.

Not quite. Nearly, but not quite.
 
2012-11-12 07:01:35 AM

This About That: 1. How does the human race maintain some survivable form of moral conduct in the absence of superstition and Big Religion?


I think we'd become more moral as a species if we managed to rid ourselves of superstition and religion. People who need either for moral guidance are people with no morals whatsoever.
 
2012-11-12 07:09:24 AM

Uncle Tractor: I think we'd become more moral as a species if we managed to rid ourselves of superstition and religion. People who need either for moral guidance are people with no morals whatsoever.


Except that religion is an evolved trait as social animals gifted to us by our brain's ability to think irrationally. Unless you plan on selectively breeding for eliminating temporal lobes anytime soon, good luck with that.

Oh. And Mr. Ratzinger? May I say this with the full force of the First Amendment and No Religious Test clause of the US Constitution behind me?

fc05.deviantart.net
 
2012-11-12 07:14:29 AM
To Farkers:
I know there are some people who don't understand why more Christians don't call out the more ignorant and down right evil people that fall under our religion... well I'll do it now.

People like Westboro use Christianity as a shield for their hate. It's disgusting. I won't cease to love them, but I certainly won't listen to them and will stand against them every chance I get.

I just moved to DC so I didn't get to vote in Maryland, but two years ago I got to speak to the Baltimore-Washington conference of the United Methodist Church to allow for us to perform same-sex marriages. We're close. When DC legalized it, it was a big deal, now that Maryland has to... I think we can win it outright.

It's time the Christian church showed love for the people around it and stopped holding on to antiquated and outdated misgivings of people who weren't God/Jesus and had no right to determine theological doctrine.



To the rest of you: I'm sorry we've taken this long to catch up.

Also, I don't expect I'll come back to check responses from this post. If I've learned anything from Fark, it's that adult conversations rarely happen on the internet, and it's just not worth it when they don't.
 
2012-11-12 07:30:02 AM
Christians = { Orthodox: (Russian, Greek, Coptic), Catholic: (Italian, Counter-Reformation, Anglican), Protestant: (Lutherism, Calvanism) }

Now, that's being broad, but I don't think there's any extant other major branches (Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant that is).

/Almost got sent to detention once for insisting that Catholics were Christians.
 
2012-11-12 07:36:35 AM

INeedAName: Also, I don't expect I'll come back to check responses from this post.


I'l reply anyway:
Let me tell you that, as a religion-hating, and especialy catholic-hating (because having been raised as one) atheist, I LIKE YOU!
 
2012-11-12 07:37:31 AM

INeedAName: People like Westboro use Christianity as a shield for their hate. It's disgusting. I won't cease to love them, but I certainly won't listen to them and will stand against them every chance I get.


I'm going to stop you right there. Because you are completely, honestly, wrong. Westboro uses Christianity as a way to emotionally provoke, well, everyone. It's their modus operandi.

The Westboro Baptist Church is a highly successful lawsuit mill. That's all they are. They are no more legitimate than patent trolls who file very, very obscure patents in hopes that some day ten years later, they can sue a major company and walk away with a settlement.

If you want proof of that? Watch the videos. Even though the "church" is made up of over 100 members, it's always the SAME people who protest - no more than 10 or 15. These are people who are all either attorneys, paralegals, or have been thoroughly educated in the limits of the first amendment, and always stop just before actual provocative speech against an indivudal or group, expecting them to make the first blow.

They are the shining example of IRL Trolls, and they use your legal system (and, since many of them hold legitimate legal jobs with non-elective state offices) and your tax dollars to do this.
 
2012-11-12 07:42:49 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: If we legalized kiddie diddling they'd be throwing a frikkin party


No, they wouldn't.

Why? Because the stigma homosexuality and pedophilia represents for many religious families probably contribute a significant number of recruits into the clergy.

Legalizing gay marriage legitimizes homosexuality, which probably represents a much larger portion of "recruits" to the clergy than pedophilia (yes, obviously a bigger portion of pedos are homosexual, but only a fraction of those homosexuals are pedos). This will cut down recruiting considerably, which I suspect is the real concern here, though the church can't publicly say that, of course.

Of course, pedophilia will never be legalized (rightfully so), but hypothetically, following the same track, the church would NOT be happy to see it legalized for the same reasons. Many families send off sons who exhibit certain behaviors (such as spending too much time with Father Touchesalot and enjoying it or those that will likely forever bebachelors) to the clergy. It seems ridiculous to most of us here on Fark, but it was a prevalent practice as recently as the 70s... and I'm sure recruiting numbers have been sliding downward since, trending along with the more liberalized social attitudes becoming more mainstream.

Sorry for using your joke as a springboard to make a serious point... the Church is probably seeing dwindling numbers of clergy because they can no longer rely on "traditional" families pressuring members with certain "proclivities" to channel their habits into religious study. I would guess that accounts for their attitude more than anything else. This doesn't paint the Church in a much better light than believing they are socially ignorant and backward - but I think it is far more accurate. It also explains why every effort to "reform" the church on the issue of homosexuality is always doomed to failure - it's not about morality - it's about survival for the church.

Also, I do not assume that all clergy are pedos (I doubt the number even breaks a single percent) or even "repressed" homosexuals (probably 20~30%) or that the church exclusively recruits on these grounds, only that "legitimizing" homosexuality would further hurt their numbers and that is what they are acting on.
 
2012-11-12 07:43:18 AM
Cry moar, emo Pope.
 
2012-11-12 07:44:02 AM

Frederick: QFTFA:
"It is clear that in Western countries there is a widespread tendency to modify the classic vision of marriage between a man and woman," he (Father Federico Lombardi) said. "Or rather to try to give it up, erasing its specific and privileged legal recognition compared to other forms of union."

In Western countries we dont believe in specific legal privileges. Everyone is entitled to the same rights, such as marriage.


No, we don't. Marriage is not a constitutional right. Look it up.
 
2012-11-12 07:49:30 AM

simplicimus: And the gap between the Catholic hierarchy and practicing Catholics grows wider. So it goes.


Agreed. It's hard out here for a Catholic.
 
2012-11-12 07:51:03 AM

SilentStrider: Do us a favor. Atp worrying about gay marriage and start focussing on the things Jesus actually gave a damn about. Like helping the poor and healing the sick.


/They are more interested in their draconian and archaic rules and keeping their mantle of power and cash flow.
 
2012-11-12 07:52:01 AM
The Vatican is really butthurt about U.S. citizens approving gay marriage


Now they know how their altar boys feel.
 
2012-11-12 07:52:04 AM
They probably really miss torture.
 
2012-11-12 07:54:01 AM
diagoras.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-12 07:55:40 AM
My dad (Catholic) is getting married to a non Catholic on Saturday. They just told him yesterday because she is divorced a couple times (she's not a gold digger) that they need more paperwork that will take at least 6 months to process.

They are just getting married at her church now and my Dad might never go back. Way to lose yet another member Vatican.
 
2012-11-12 07:58:27 AM
Ratzi der Nazi kann putten ein Sock in it.
 
2012-11-12 07:58:34 AM
gay marriage. wow. what a non-issue!
 
2012-11-12 07:58:42 AM
Will gay pedofile priests be able to marry under this law???? Just a thought....
 
2012-11-12 08:01:41 AM

Frederick: QFTFA:
"It is clear that in Western countries there is a widespread tendency to modify the classic vision of marriage between a man and woman," he (Father Federico Lombardi) said. "Or rather to try to give it up, erasing its specific and privileged legal recognition compared to other forms of union."

In Western countries we dont believe in specific legal privileges. Everyone is entitled to the same rights, such as marriage.


Plus I can go to church anywhere I want. Or not.
 
2012-11-12 08:11:38 AM

WaitWhatWhy: Darth_Lukecash: simplicimus: alienated: simplicimus: alienated: Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?

Well, according to a recent poll, 60% of Catholics are saying "Well man, that's like just your opinion".

Fine.Question still stands. , - thats how they roll ...

Well, very few do. 31% of the 24% of the population of the US that identifies as Catholic cares. Too tired to do the math.

In all fairness, American Catholics really rarely listen to Rome.

Mainly because of the Confession loopholes,

Well, that the fact that the Church is only infallible when it's talking about faith and morals. The Bishops know farkall about legal theory, justice, or anything else related to the real, testable world.


Infallible talking about morals?????????? I call BS... one name Alexander VI wiki this guy...OMG...by the way if you're ever in Roma he is entombed on Via Giulia right near the Assunta Madre...best seafood place in Roma. mmmmmmmmmm
 
2012-11-12 08:16:01 AM
Why? Are they worried more priests will quit to get married?
 
2012-11-12 08:23:16 AM

Eckyhade: Will gay pedofile priests be able to marry under this law???? Just a thought....


"rapist and his victim"
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-12 08:28:14 AM
Vatican butthurt? Ya', tell that to the legions of little boys left nursing their lesions.
 
2012-11-12 08:31:08 AM

angryjd: Frederick: QFTFA:
"It is clear that in Western countries there is a widespread tendency to modify the classic vision of marriage between a man and woman," he (Father Federico Lombardi) said. "Or rather to try to give it up, erasing its specific and privileged legal recognition compared to other forms of union."

In Western countries we dont believe in specific legal privileges. Everyone is entitled to the same rights, such as marriage.

No, we don't. Marriage is not a constitutional right. Look it up.


You're right in that marriage is never specifically mentioned in the constitution, but the right to marry is basically the right to enter into a contract, you don't get to restrict contracts to just one gender combination because the 14th amendment specifically forbids the creation of laws that do that.
 
2012-11-12 08:33:54 AM
Just don't mess with the Catholic Church's racket of paying for the forgiveness of your sins, when all you need to do is repent to God himself, no intermediary required.
Also don't you dare suggest that the mass is nothing more than a scripted performance.
/ex-catholic
 
2012-11-12 08:36:11 AM
1.bp.blogspot.com

Showed up to be critical-I see that's been taken care of in fine fashion.
Thanks
M,

Was just thinking about this a bit deeper.
What are they going to do with all these freaking churches - I mean, they're in EVERY freakin' town. Just give up the catholic franchise and become Ashrams? Doughnut shops? Used car lots or muffler shops? Recording studios? If you had the cash you could start a chain of strip joints.
I'll tell you, if I had a business making vestments or bread I'd be concerned. The Gold Chalice Corporation? Better start making a name for yourself in the jewelry industry.
 
2012-11-12 08:37:53 AM

The Southern Dandy: Just another Heartland Weirdass: Polygamy? I'm fine with it
Polyandry? I'm fine with it
Never getting marked? I'm fine with it
I draw the line at informed, consenting adults.
Some things really are simple.

While I agree in principle, I completely disagree with your assessment that poly-marriage is simple. Legally, it would be a nightmare. Especially when it came to divorce, and even more especially if a partner only wanted to divorce one of the members of the union and not the others.

Codify that!


You'd have to modify custody and inheritance law. It'd be a big project, to be sure...but not exactly impossible.
 
2012-11-12 08:38:49 AM
I've been very annoyed by the political sermons this year. We had the "I'm not telling you who to vote for, but don't be stupid" sermon, the "liberals love Internet pornogrphy" sermon, and the last two before the election were gay marriage and abortion. I wanted to ask the priest for some of the money the Republicans were obviously paying him.
 
2012-11-12 08:39:47 AM
I'm just going to post this for kicks. For the record, this was written well before the somewhat recent uprising of this into the spotlight.

Priest
 
2012-11-12 08:39:47 AM

fluffy2097: The Southern Dandy: It is "Illegitimate rape" so to speak?

It's not rape, legitimate or otherwise if the person you're sticking your dick into doesn't know it's wrong.

/cum with me my child, I want to show you the instrument of god's will.


Puts that "my rod and staff will comfort thee" line in a whole new light...
 
2012-11-12 08:42:12 AM
Rome doesn't approve of gay marriage, but does approve of priests ass-raping little boys.
 
2012-11-12 08:42:33 AM
"If not, why not contemplate also freely chosen polygamy and, of course, not to discriminate, polyandry?"


I'm in. Gays got what they want, so they won't help anyone else's struggle. Serial marriage as portrayed by Heinlein good too.

On the other hand, I don't think government needs to be involved in ANY marriage.
 
2012-11-12 08:43:02 AM

Eckyhade: WaitWhatWhy: Darth_Lukecash: simplicimus: alienated: simplicimus: alienated: Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?

Well, according to a recent poll, 60% of Catholics are saying "Well man, that's like just your opinion".

Fine.Question still stands. , - thats how they roll ...

Well, very few do. 31% of the 24% of the population of the US that identifies as Catholic cares. Too tired to do the math.

In all fairness, American Catholics really rarely listen to Rome.

Mainly because of the Confession loopholes,

Well, that the fact that the Church is only infallible when it's talking about faith and morals. The Bishops know farkall about legal theory, justice, or anything else related to the real, testable world.

Infallible talking about morals?????????? I call BS... one name Alexander VI wiki this guy...OMG...by the way if you're ever in Roma he is entombed on Via Giulia right near the Assunta Madre...best seafood place in Roma. mmmmmmmmmm


Only in talking officially about morals, not in terms of actually being moral. The Catholic Church actually has some pretty serious limitations on what it can preach on built into it's theology, although most don't realize it, and the Church hierarchy throughout history has consistently tried to do an end run around them. Basically, according to Catholic doctrine, the Church can only teach authoritatively about matters of faith and morals. Hence, if you're Catholic, you can tell the Church to get bent on just about any subject the deals with the real world, and not imaginary sky men. Bonus points: there are many completely non-moral arguments for keeping religion out of governance, so the Church can't even make a case that practicing Catholics should enforce their beliefs on others using the legal system.
 
2012-11-12 08:50:12 AM
I'm not really all that interested in what the absolute leader of some foreign theocracy thinks about our laws.

Would you take advice from Iran's Khamenei about our marriage laws? Then we can ignore this guy as well - they're both leaders of foreign countries who are only in control because of their religion and are too big for their britches.
 
2012-11-12 08:51:07 AM

macdaddy357: Rome doesn't approve of gay marriage, but does approve of priests ass-raping little boys.


I had a moment, just a moment, where I considered that it might be immoral to be so crass about the Catholic church. Then I remembered all of the crimes committed. Real crimes. Like Mother Teresa's homes for the dying, where nuns actively promote the suffering of the critically ill so that they (the nuns, not the dying) can get closer to god.

The only fix for the Catholic Church is measured in bombs per acre. They literally rejoice in the suffering of others. They believe that making people suffer is their holy duty.

At least the terrorists are fighting for an ideology that goes beyond just making people suffer.

/The solution for the Catholic Church is measured in bombs per acre.
//Turn their most holy sites into piles of rubble, and throw their leaders and clergy to the rabid dickwolves.
 
2012-11-12 08:53:48 AM

propasaurus: [www.mopo.ca image 326x396]


Wait, so this little blurb is about Jack McGurkin, and Pastor Bates?

images.wikia.com
 
2012-11-12 08:59:23 AM
You no playa da game, you no maka da rules. Words of wisdom.
 
2012-11-12 09:02:01 AM

BronyMedic: Except that religion is an evolved trait as social animals gifted to us by our brain's ability to think irrationally. Unless you plan on selectively breeding for eliminating temporal lobes anytime soon, good luck with that.


Thus the embiggened IF in my post ...

IMO we won't get rid of religion until genetic engineering becomes commonplace and BS filters are mandatory for all brain mods.
 
2012-11-12 09:02:11 AM

SilentStrider: SilentStrider: Do us a favor. Atp worrying about gay marriage and start focussing on the things Jesus actually gave a damn about. Like helping the poor and healing the sick.

Atp? Really? I typed stop, and got atp?


Adenosine triphosphate's a helluva drug.
 
2012-11-12 09:02:22 AM
You lost the right to tell anyone what to do and the high ground to tell it on when you willingly allowed for pedophiles to be moved around and protected in your ranks.
 
2012-11-12 09:05:11 AM
Obviously the Vatican has to say something after the elections - and while their American congregation might roll their eyes, they do have a whole mess of Catholics elsewhere around the globe who are in general a lot more traditional.

I don't know about anybody else's local priests, but mine only said anything about same sex marriage once last summer, before the big state legislature vote, and only then because Dolan told them to on orders from Ratzo. It sounded very rote to me. Your parish's piety may vary...
 
2012-11-12 09:10:13 AM
People talk of the boys that the church diddled and how they need justice. Which is very true. I just wonder if they will get brushed aside like the teen slaves the church kept in Ireland. The magelena asylums were active for decades and nothing is spoke of them.
 
2012-11-12 09:11:03 AM

angryjd: Frederick: QFTFA:
"It is clear that in Western countries there is a widespread tendency to modify the classic vision of marriage between a man and woman," he (Father Federico Lombardi) said. "Or rather to try to give it up, erasing its specific and privileged legal recognition compared to other forms of union."

In Western countries we dont believe in specific legal privileges. Everyone is entitled to the same rights, such as marriage.

No, we don't. Marriage is not a constitutional right. Look it up.


The Supreme Court disagrees with your characterization of marriage as not a right. "The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men." Loving v. Virginia, 388 US 1, 12 (1967).
 
2012-11-12 09:12:09 AM

INeedAName: Also, I don't expect I'll come back to check responses from this post.


Well, tough, I'm going to reply anyway. I'm glad you are trying to do right by the people around you, and it's nice that your religion is what prompted you to do so.

BUT, it doesn't matter. What matters is not whether some religious folks will publicly say that the crazies in their religion are, well, crazy, but that people stop supporting them privately. Don't give money to a Catholic Church and don't give money to your local Methodist/Baptist/etc church if they're preaching hatred. As long as there is a single person who says "Well, I don't hate gays, but I really like going to this church" (and I'm not saying that person is you), there's a problem. Imagine if a preacher went on some tirade one Sunday and the next week half his pews were empty because people don't want to listen to a moral leader preach immorality. Wouldn't that be a great day.
 
2012-11-12 09:18:03 AM
I would never get down on someone for believing in God or believing the stories in the bible. That said, if you really, objectively look at the Vatican, how does all that shiat not just look silly as fark all?
 
2012-11-12 09:19:45 AM
First, Roman Catholic priests, nuns, monks etc. (per their own rules) don't produce kids and so the Church's argument has collapsed before it has begun.

Second, let's take a look at life if the offered argument that producing babies is the only reason for humans to live.

You spend every waking hour having sex to make more babies.
Until you die, very young because nobody's producing food or clean drinking water.
Forget clothes. If cold weather happens your dead because nobody's building or maintaining homes.
Women die in childbirth because nobody's a doctor or nurse; all anybody does is reproduce or die trying.
Okay, the Church has won; people are going to reproduce and do nothing else until the entire race is extinct from starvation in about eighteen months.
You know what dies before the human race? The human soul; it's gone the day this scenario that the Pope is preaching gets implemented.

Your Holiness, go fark yourself. I'm gay by the grace of God. I demand the same rights as my neighbor, and people that wouldn't let Jesus use the phone cannot tell me about morality.
 
2012-11-12 09:26:55 AM

Weaver95: which is fine - I mean nobody ever said that we all had to be ok with gay marriage. But the Vatican doesn't make the rules in this country. they can (and do) set the rules in THEIR nation, and i'm sure they've got a pretty decent influence around the world...but when it comes down to brass tacks, the Vatican gets a say, they don't get their way. the people who live HERE get to decide for themselves what's right and what's legal.


Sure.

The Vatican can set the rules in THEIR nation, so long as they don't step one inch past its borders.

How big is Vatican City again?
 
2012-11-12 09:30:42 AM

I May Be Crazy But...: I'm not really all that interested in what the absolute leader of some foreign theocracy thinks about our laws.

Would you take advice from Iran's Khamenei about our marriage laws? Then we can ignore this guy as well - they're both leaders of foreign countries who are only in control because of their religion and are too big for their britches.


At least Khamenei's country produces things we care about. Vatican ... stamps?
 
2012-11-12 09:32:17 AM

david_gaithersburg: Yeah, another Fark bigot-bashing fest!


FTFY.
 
2012-11-12 09:32:44 AM

herrDrFarkenstein: I May Be Crazy But...: I'm not really all that interested in what the absolute leader of some foreign theocracy thinks about our laws.

Would you take advice from Iran's Khamenei about our marriage laws? Then we can ignore this guy as well - they're both leaders of foreign countries who are only in control because of their religion and are too big for their britches.

At least Khamenei's country produces things we care about. Vatican ... stamps?


They aren't the only country who's major secular contribution to the world is tourism. Great museums and all that.
 
2012-11-12 09:34:59 AM
Hey, if its good enough for Elmo...
 
2012-11-12 09:36:52 AM
Shut up, Fed.
 
2012-11-12 09:37:07 AM

FloydA: Here's an idea: how about you get your staff to stop raping little kids? When you finally agree that molesting children is wrong, then maybe I'll consider the possibility that you might have some moral authority. But as long as you keep allowing your staff to keel brutally raping children, and you, personally, make an effort to cover up for their crimes, I'm not really convinced that you're in a position to tell anyone else what is right and what is wrong.

In short, Mr. Ratzinger, please don't hesitate to go f**k yourself.


This. Child molestation and institutional hiding of these actions for financial reasons offends me far more than two men or women marrying.
 
2012-11-12 09:39:09 AM

mamoru: Wrencher: Why does anyone listen to Senator Palpatine's minions anymore?

Because fear will keep the local systems in line! Fear and surprise. The two things that will keep the local systems in line are fear and surprise and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope are the three things that... Amongst the things that will keep the local systems in line are...

/We apologize for the fault in the pop culture references. Those responsible have been sacked.


A Cåthølic once bit my sister.....
 
2012-11-12 09:46:38 AM

angryjd: Frederick: QFTFA:
"It is clear that in Western countries there is a widespread tendency to modify the classic vision of marriage between a man and woman," he (Father Federico Lombardi) said. "Or rather to try to give it up, erasing its specific and privileged legal recognition compared to other forms of union."

In Western countries we dont believe in specific legal privileges. Everyone is entitled to the same rights, such as marriage.

No, we don't. Marriage is not a constitutional right. Look it up.


Marriage most certainly is a right guaranteed by the US Constitution. Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival....
 
2012-11-12 09:50:02 AM
I waited until we were alone in the church before approaching him.
"Father?" I said, causing him to turn and look at me.
"I'm sure you won't remember me Father, but 20 years ago I was one of the altar boys you brutally abused."
I could see immediate panic and shame in his eyes as he struggled to find words, "I.. I don't know.."
"Save it Father," I said unbuckling my trousers, "It's payback time."
"Please.. No.." He pleaded.
"On your knees Father," I commanded, "or I go to the authorities and you'll be ruined."
As he slowly sunk to the floor in resignation, I felt a satisfied grin forming on my face.

I'd never met the old sod before, but I've found it's an almost sure fire way of getting a free blowjob.
 
2012-11-12 10:10:49 AM

simplicimus: Weaver95: hubiestubert:
America has never been exactly a bastion for the Catholics, not with such a strong Protestant population, and that pesky "freedom of religion" has meant that they can't simply bully folks to get their way. There is a coalition t's between the Catholics and Protestants on issues like abortion and birth control, but that is tenuous at best. They can ally on some things, but in the end, they're competitors for a market...

so long as their religious conflicts don't become violent, I honestly don't care what our various christian sects say about one another.

I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian, and my Church's hierarchy has abandoned its mission. "Free will" is a Catholic tenet, and if you get an abortion, use birth control or get gay married, that's between you and God. Christ never told us to outlaw sin, just told us to forgive the sinner.


The only requirement for "christian" is the belief in christ's divinity, catholics do believe that ergo christians. Now there are various levels of catholic, cutural catholics who don't believe any part of the church any more but are still influenced by their upbringing, catholics like you who are still believers but reject the church hierarchy's authoritarian BS and full on brain washed automatons following alongwith everything. As there are more and more catholics who think for themselves like you the hierarchy loses power and that's a good thing. The churches in America are losing influence because they are stuck on the wrong issues, they want to control people rather than help them. You are not stuck with that mindset, you have excaped, good for you.
 
2012-11-12 10:14:00 AM
At some point in the future, they will get over it. If not, they will have learned to live with the pain.
 
2012-11-12 10:19:45 AM
Humanity's already on it's way down the shiathole so approval for crap like this doesn't surprise me anymore.
 
2012-11-12 10:23:27 AM
People freezing and starving to death all over the world, and the Vatican is upset about gay marriage.

No wonder Christians are so callous and greedy.
 
2012-11-12 10:29:15 AM

Saruman_W: Humanity's already on it's way down the shiathole so approval for crap like this doesn't surprise me anymore.


The wizard sending the Orcs to rape Rohan would know, after all...
 
2012-11-12 10:31:34 AM
an impassioned speech against all of the progress that America has made and what all of this is doing to heterosexual marriage, which he described as "an achievement of civilization."

Yeah, it's about time you and your dark-age cohorts become civilized too.
 
2012-11-12 10:44:35 AM

Godscrack: People freezing and starving to death all over the world, and the Vatican is upset about gay marriage.

No wonder Christians are so callous and greedy.


Yea, next they will be calling for the death penalty for being gay and join their muslim brothers in wanting to havng them all. After all like you said, they are ALL callous... just the other day i saw some christain on the street corner saying all gays should be put to death and then on the news i saw the vatican stating there were no gays in Italy just like in Iran.
 
2012-11-12 10:47:38 AM

Joe Blowme: just the other day i saw some christain on the street corner saying all gays should be put to death and then on the news i saw the vatican stating there were no gays in Italy just like in Iran.


You do realize that All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholic right?

America is largely a Protestant nation. Catholics are actually a minority here.

/Seems like most farkers don't understand that Catholic and Christian are not interchangeable.
 
2012-11-12 10:49:55 AM

fluffy2097: Joe Blowme: just the other day i saw some christain on the street corner saying all gays should be put to death and then on the news i saw the vatican stating there were no gays in Italy just like in Iran.

You do realize that All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholic right?

America is largely a Protestant nation. Catholics are actually a minority here.

/Seems like most farkers don't understand that Catholic and Christian are not interchangeable.


Maybe you want to redirect that to GodsCrack
 
2012-11-12 11:09:14 AM

Joe Blowme: fluffy2097: Joe Blowme: just the other day i saw some christain on the street corner saying all gays should be put to death and then on the news i saw the vatican stating there were no gays in Italy just like in Iran.

You do realize that All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholic right?

America is largely a Protestant nation. Catholics are actually a minority here.

/Seems like most farkers don't understand that Catholic and Christian are not interchangeable.

Maybe you want to redirect that to GodsCrack


Meh. The statement really applies to most of Fark. I'm way to tired to go picking through nested quotes to find who was one kind of ignorant in a sea of retardation. My apologies.
 
2012-11-12 11:09:59 AM
Excommunicate the whole country. That'll teach us.

They already excommunicated my father for marrying a divorcee, so WTF.
 
2012-11-12 11:11:54 AM

XplodedSynapses: Nice one Subby. Butthurt.

i was raised Catholic.
i don't really like being Catholic.


All you have to do is say to yourself, "I'm not Catholic anymore" and *poof*, you're no longer Catholic.
 
2012-11-12 11:19:01 AM
Yet another reason I consider myself a recovering Cathaholic. Kicked the stuff years ago.
 
2012-11-12 11:25:33 AM

victrin: Yet another reason I consider myself a recovering Cathaholic. Kicked the stuff years ago.


what does that stuff taste like? a mix between fish and semen??
 
2012-11-12 11:42:16 AM
If god didn't like it, he would fix it. Right?
 
2012-11-12 11:55:18 AM
2 things to remember:

1. Religion = Superstition + $$$$
2. If you give these people money, you're condoning child rape.
 
2012-11-12 12:18:24 PM

Ilmarinen: He went on to say, "If not, why not contemplate also freely chosen polygamy


Since Lawrence v. Texas (2003), it is legal in practice; it just doesn't get special legal recognitions/protections.
 
2012-11-12 12:22:42 PM
ooooh this one is difficult. It pits my dislike of teh catholics with my dislike of teh gays. (note I said "dislike" not "irrational fear" inb4 homophobe) look it up.
 
2012-11-12 12:23:39 PM
It's only okay when one of the people involved is underaged and the other is a Priest I guess.
 
2012-11-12 12:33:01 PM
And so is God, but since you're not on speaking terms ...
 
2012-11-12 12:35:06 PM
If marriage is a religious contract, the government shouldn't be giving out marriage licenses. I don't understand how society let religion spin the word marriage into this whole fiasco, but if that is the problem then the government should give out union licenses and leave marriage to the churches. All legal protections currently provided under marriages would instead be provided to these unions. We shouldn't provide legal status to a religious standing.
 
2012-11-12 12:40:58 PM

2headedboy: XplodedSynapses: Nice one Subby. Butthurt.

i was raised Catholic.
i don't really like being Catholic.

All you have to do is say to yourself, "I'm not Catholic anymore" and *poof*, you're no longer Catholic.


Actually, once you are baptised into the Catholic Church they consider you Catholic no matter your attendance or other affiliations.

/Catholic father, Lutheran mother, went through two of everything growing up
 
2012-11-12 12:44:36 PM
You know what, if being gay is a sin and gay marriage is a sin then so what. That's between God and the sinners and it's just not your problem. Jesus didn't go around trying to stop everyone from sinning. He always left the choice up to them. That's the whole f***ing point.

Judge not lest ye be judged. In other words: Quit trying to make moral decisions for other people. Their morals are not your responsibility. Yours are.
 
2012-11-12 12:59:57 PM
TFA: [Father Lombardi] went on to say, "If not, why not contemplate also freely chosen polygamy and, of course, not to discriminate, polyandry?"

Sigh.
'Polygamy' (multiple spouses) is a more general term which already includes polyandry (multiple husbands). The word you were thinking of is 'polygyny' (multiple wives), Father.

/Hey, since there's already been debate about which subgroups of Christ's followers are actually called Christians in this thread...
//for the record, polygamy's not necessarily wrong, either... especially, funnily enough, if you're basing your reasoning in the Bible
 
2012-11-12 01:12:06 PM
if i can has 3 wives go ahead. more womins for me
 
2012-11-12 01:17:04 PM
Have they taken responsibility for the unrepentant child rape cult in their own organization? No? Then why the fark would I care what a bunch of kiddie-diddlers have to say about anything? Unless they are confessing their sick crimes to a judge, I don't want to hear a word out of these freaks.
 
2012-11-12 01:50:19 PM

angryjd: Frederick: QFTFA:
"It is clear that in Western countries there is a widespread tendency to modify the classic vision of marriage between a man and woman," he (Father Federico Lombardi) said. "Or rather to try to give it up, erasing its specific and privileged legal recognition compared to other forms of union."

In Western countries we dont believe in specific legal privileges. Everyone is entitled to the same rights, such as marriage.

No, we don't. Marriage is not a constitutional right. Look it up.


I did, andthe Supremes would beg to differ, my friend.

/Do you have a Fark GED in law, or are you being deliberately obtuse?
 
2012-11-12 02:04:16 PM

Duke_leto_Atredes: if i can has 3 wives go ahead. more womins for me


more women is a great idea, but one at a time over a period of time. Three all at once would be living hell.
 
2012-11-12 02:04:44 PM
Fun fact: the early Christian church was AGAINST marriage of any kind. It only brought it in because it wasn't getting many rich and powerful people to join. And it was only recently when this idea of "traditional marriage" (one man to one woman) was implemented.

Christianity, the religion of "If you can't beat it, assimilate it and twist it into your own idea, then declare it was always like how you say it is".
 
2012-11-12 02:13:56 PM

chuckufarlie: Duke_leto_Atredes: if i can has 3 wives go ahead. more womins for me

more women is a great idea, but one at a time over a period of time. Three all at once would be living hell.


You're missing the fun part: three mothers-in-law.
 
2012-11-12 02:16:08 PM
The last time the Catholic Church decided to get all hardline and dickish on marriage.

tudorhistory.org

Really, Vatican? You really wanna go again?

/actually, I welcome this decision. LOL.
 
2012-11-12 02:23:01 PM

fluffy2097: /bunch of child raping pedophiles


www.noiseaddicts.com
"Fight the Real Enemy!"

We all owe Sinead O'Connor a pretty big apology.
 
2012-11-12 02:30:14 PM

simplicimus: chuckufarlie: Duke_leto_Atredes: if i can has 3 wives go ahead. more womins for me

more women is a great idea, but one at a time over a period of time. Three all at once would be living hell.

You're missing the fun part: three mothers-in-law.

i have two MIL now they are both very nice
 
2012-11-12 02:32:55 PM

Duke_leto_Atredes: simplicimus: chuckufarlie: Duke_leto_Atredes: if i can has 3 wives go ahead. more womins for me

more women is a great idea, but one at a time over a period of time. Three all at once would be living hell.

You're missing the fun part: three mothers-in-law.
i have two MIL now they are both very nice


I'm all out of MILs.
 
2012-11-12 02:41:21 PM
Where's the Space Pope when you need his reptilian Highness?
 
2012-11-12 02:50:02 PM
Every time I see a pic of the Pope, I can't help thinking how evil he looks. No kidding. Despite anything he may or may not have done in his life, he looks more repugnant than the preacher in Poltergeist. "God is in... His Holy temple..." He. Is. Creepy.

Frightening.

His image alone is enough to make me lean towards believing that we are indeed in the End Times.

Seriously. The guy is evil-clown creepy.
 
2012-11-12 02:50:26 PM

Weaver95: simplicimus:
I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian, and my Church's hierarchy has abandoned its mission. "Free will" is a Catholic tenet, and if you get an abortion, use birth control or get gay married, that's between you and God. Christ never told us to outlaw sin, just told us to forgive the sinner.

i'm starting to wonder if the pagans have it right - there's more than ONE god out there and they all might be equally valid. meh - like I said, so long as it stays non-violent it's all good.


Well, some of us. Others, like me, are monotheistic, but we see the Divine as inherently unknowable, but the god\desses we've made up are good metaphors, if you take out the stupid. Some Pagans even extend that to Yaweh.

/Just to geek out for a minute. :p
//Someday, I will walk into a thread where Paganism is discussed and not instantly put on my professor hat...
 
2012-11-12 02:53:45 PM

namegoeshere: Every time I see a pic of the Pope, I can't help thinking how evil he looks. No kidding. Despite anything he may or may not have done in his life, he looks more repugnant than the preacher in Poltergeist. "God is in... His Holy temple..." He. Is. Creepy.

Frightening.

His image alone is enough to make me lean towards believing that we are indeed in the End Times.

Seriously. The guy is evil-clown creepy.


The Vatican wanted an old Pope.

Old Popes don't rock boats.
 
2012-11-12 03:12:36 PM

SkunkWerks: namegoeshere: Every time I see a pic of the Pope, I can't help thinking how evil he looks. No kidding. Despite anything he may or may not have done in his life, he looks more repugnant than the preacher in Poltergeist. "God is in... His Holy temple..." He. Is. Creepy.

Frightening.

His image alone is enough to make me lean towards believing that we are indeed in the End Times.

Seriously. The guy is evil-clown creepy.

The Vatican wanted an old Pope.

Old Popes don't rock boats.


It's not just him being ancient, though. Look at his eyes. He has dead eyes. Soul-devouring dead thing eyes.
 
2012-11-12 03:28:24 PM

namegoeshere: dead thing eyes


I love Dead Thing Pie!

Oh. Wait
 
2012-11-12 04:16:19 PM

LovingTeacher: The only requirement for "christian" is the belief in christ's divinity


Actually, per Catholic doctrine, the only requirement to be a "Christian" is to have been baptized as one (by any Christian sect, not necessarily by an ordained Catholic priest). According to them, a heretical or apostate Christian is still a Christian. Even if you're excommunicated, you're still a Christian according to church doctrine.

/Aunt is an ex-Nun
 
2012-11-12 04:18:32 PM
Leave it to a dress-wearing, all mens' club that believes man-on-boy rape should be legal to disapprove of consensual gay sex.
 
2012-11-12 04:27:54 PM

namegoeshere:

It's not just him being ancient, though. Look at his eyes. He has dead eyes. Soul-devouring dead thing eyes.


Sometimes that Pope he looks right into ya. Right into your eyes. And, you know, the thing about a Pope... he's got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, doesn't seem to be living... until he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then... ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin'. The pulpit turns red, and despite all the poundin' and the hollerin', they all come in and they... rip you to pieces. You know by the end of that first dawn, lost a hundred men. I don't know how many Popes, maybe a thousand. I know how many men, they averaged six an hour. On Thursday morning, Chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Herbie Robinson from Cleveland. Baseball player. Boatswain's mate. I thought he was asleep. I reached over to wake him up. He bobbed up, down in the water just like a kinda top. Upended. Well, he'd been bitten in half below the waist. Noon, the fifth day, Mr. Hooper, a Lockheed Ventura saw us. He swung in low and he saw us... he was a young pilot, a lot younger than Mr. Hooper. Anyway, he saw us and he come in low and three hours later a big fat PBY comes down and starts to pick us up. You know that was the time I was most frightened... waitin' for my turn. I'll never put on a lifejacket again. So, eleven hundred men went in the water; 316 men come out and the Popes took the rest, June the 29th, 1945. Anyway, we delivered the bomb.
 
2012-11-12 04:49:37 PM

FloydA: namegoeshere:

It's not just him being ancient, though. Look at his eyes. He has dead eyes. Soul-devouring dead thing eyes.

Sometimes that Pope he looks right into ya. Right into your eyes. And, you know, the thing about a Pope... he's got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, doesn't seem to be living... until he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then... ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin'. The pulpit turns red, and despite all the poundin' and the hollerin', they all come in and they... rip you to pieces. You know by the end of that first dawn, lost a hundred men. I don't know how many Popes, maybe a thousand. I know how many men, they averaged six an hour. On Thursday morning, Chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Herbie Robinson from Cleveland. Baseball player. Boatswain's mate. I thought he was asleep. I reached over to wake him up. He bobbed up, down in the water just like a kinda top. Upended. Well, he'd been bitten in half below the waist. Noon, the fifth day, Mr. Hooper, a Lockheed Ventura saw us. He swung in low and he saw us... he was a young pilot, a lot younger than Mr. Hooper. Anyway, he saw us and he come in low and three hours later a big fat PBY comes down and starts to pick us up. You know that was the time I was most frightened... waitin' for my turn. I'll never put on a lifejacket again. So, eleven hundred men went in the water; 316 men come out and the Popes took the rest, June the 29th, 1945. Anyway, we delivered the bomb.


: ) lol!

/add Rome to the list of places I'm no longer welcome
//sigh
///thanks, Fark
 
2012-11-12 04:49:38 PM
So, ol' Bent-dicked is pissed off we passed gay marriage, huh? Glad to hear it. If there's anything we can do to further piss off you pedophilia-tolerating hypocrites, just let us know what it is.
 
2012-11-12 05:11:59 PM

Krymson Tyde: [i232.photobucket.com image 211x160]


I love it when the religitards use the argument that if we allow gay marriage that "the gays" will then seek to legalize marrying animals!
 
2012-11-12 05:27:53 PM

Mock26: Krymson Tyde: [i232.photobucket.com image 211x160]

I love it when the religitards use the argument that if we allow gay marriage that "the gays" will then seek to legalize marrying animals!


Well, as the last election cycle made perfectly clear, they don't understand the concept of "consent."

/But the rest of us do.
 
2012-11-12 05:50:28 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Mock26: Krymson Tyde: [i232.photobucket.com image 211x160]

I love it when the religitards use the argument that if we allow gay marriage that "the gays" will then seek to legalize marrying animals!

Well, as the last election cycle made perfectly clear, they don't understand the concept of "consent."

/But the rest of us do.


Me, I love the argument that gay marriage will destroy the institution of marriage, since heterosexuals have been destroying it for decades.

"I was married by a judge. I should have asked for a jury."
― Groucho Marx
 
2012-11-12 06:51:18 PM

namegoeshere:

: ) lol!

/add Rome to the list of places I'm no longer welcome
//sigh
///thanks, Fark


Fistbump. Solid!

(Rome is actually pretty cool. The Vatican's politics piss me off, of course, but the rest of the city is fascinating. Don't write off Rome just because Ratzinger is an ass.)
 
2012-11-12 06:52:00 PM

alienated: Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?


i.imgur.com
"We don't need Rome telling us what to do!"
 
2012-11-12 08:06:00 PM

SnarfVader: They'll get over it.


But will the children?
 
2012-11-12 11:11:19 PM
FTA: "If not, why not contemplate also freely chosen polygamy and, of course, not to discriminate, polyandry?"

And maybe apples are not only apples but oranges, and squids, and leprechauns!

/polygyny, not polygamy, is the opposite of polyandry.
 
2012-11-13 02:02:33 AM

simplicimus: No, practicing the teachings of Christ would make one a Christian, but very few people do that.


I think you'll find you're wrong here.

Protestants (except maybe Anglicans, I don't know) very specifically believe in Salvation Through Faith (justification sola fide) and NOT Salvation Through Works. You can't earn your way into heaven by doing nice stuff. It was one of the THE Catholic/Protestant schisms. Paul spoke out against "works" but frankly like with most issues the NT is all over the place on the issue. Almost as if it wasn't written by the actual disciples of an actual god who of course would be quite clear on this particular issue.

If they're actually aware of the doctrine of their own religion (which many aren't) Protestants should believe that the act of having Faith and Accepting Salvation is the important thing, and that doing Works does literally nothing to bring you to Christ. The expected effect of receiving Salvation Through Faith is that you are required to live the Faith i.e. Works. But it's not the Works that make you a Christian, it's the Faith.

Wow, I used so much random capitalisation that it looks really troll-y.

/Christian apologetics is so lulzy
 
2012-11-13 04:46:13 AM

crabsno termites: SnarfVader: They'll get over it.

But will the children?


No. They will just get bent over.
 
2012-11-13 09:58:16 AM
The Vatican would like to remind everyone that sodomy between consenting adult males is bad, but sodomy between elderly priest and underage altar boys is still ok.
 
2012-11-13 12:49:58 PM
Why is polygamy any different?

Don't act superior with your more socially acceptable alternative relationship
 
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