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(Gawker)   The Vatican is really butthurt about U.S. citizens approving gay marriage   (gawker.com) divider line 221
    More: Obvious, U.S., U.S. citizens, Vatican Radio  
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12305 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Nov 2012 at 4:13 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-11 10:13:31 PM
QFTFA:
"It is clear that in Western countries there is a widespread tendency to modify the classic vision of marriage between a man and woman," he (Father Federico Lombardi) said. "Or rather to try to give it up, erasing its specific and privileged legal recognition compared to other forms of union."

In Western countries we dont believe in specific legal privileges. Everyone is entitled to the same rights, such as marriage.
 
2012-11-11 11:01:35 PM
Here's an idea: how about you get your staff to stop raping little kids? When you finally agree that molesting children is wrong, then maybe I'll consider the possibility that you might have some moral authority. But as long as you keep allowing your staff to keel brutally raping children, and you, personally, make an effort to cover up for their crimes, I'm not really convinced that you're in a position to tell anyone else what is right and what is wrong.

In short, Mr. Ratzinger, please don't hesitate to go f**k yourself.
 
2012-11-11 11:07:40 PM
Unless the right-wingers blow it all up, the biggest questions that will have to be faced (or ignored at great peril) in the coming century or so will be:

1. How does the human race maintain some survivable form of moral conduct in the absence of superstition and Big Religion?

2. How does the human race maintain some survivable form of civil and economic organization in the absence of oligarchs and mindless authoritarians?

3. How does the human race rid itself of those evils?

// Where do you fit in, Father Lombardi?
 
2012-11-11 11:22:33 PM
If we legalized kiddie diddling they'd be throwing a frikkin party
 
2012-11-11 11:51:18 PM
and?
 
2012-11-11 11:52:27 PM
Boo-frickin-hoo.

I don't give a damn about your "special privilege" to keep a group from having the same rights as everyone else. If you can't accept that, then go fark yourselves.
 
2012-11-11 11:56:05 PM
which is fine - I mean nobody ever said that we all had to be ok with gay marriage. But the Vatican doesn't make the rules in this country. they can (and do) set the rules in THEIR nation, and i'm sure they've got a pretty decent influence around the world...but when it comes down to brass tacks, the Vatican gets a say, they don't get their way. the people who live HERE get to decide for themselves what's right and what's legal.
 
2012-11-11 11:58:07 PM
They'll get over it.
 
2012-11-12 12:02:36 AM

Frederick: In Western countries we dont believe in specific legal privileges. Everyone is entitled to the same rights, such as marriage.


Indeed. Last I heard, we were a Constitutionally-limited Republic, not a theocracy. The Vatican can go fark itself.
 
2012-11-12 12:05:59 AM
Do us a favor. Atp worrying about gay marriage and start focussing on the things Jesus actually gave a damn about. Like helping the poor and healing the sick.
 
2012-11-12 12:06:05 AM
Perhaps the Vatican should worry about Rome, and not what folks who aren't Catholic are doing.

That's the issue. Not Catholics. Buddhists. Pagans. Methodists. Lutherans. Unitarians--you know, some of the folks the Catholics ran a Crusade against before they rolled on Jerusalem. The Vatican should worry about what Catholics are doing, and deal with them, and maybe leave governing of a nation that ISN'T Catholic alone. Especially one that is based upon the separation of church and state...

While they're at it, they might want to look a little harder at how their priests are acting within their own churches. Tend to your own knitting. When Bishops aren't moving priests around to keep sexual predators hidden, maybe then they can take a stab at telling folks what is moral or not...
 
2012-11-12 12:07:03 AM

SilentStrider: Do us a favor. Atp worrying about gay marriage and start focussing on the things Jesus actually gave a damn about. Like helping the poor and healing the sick.


Atp? Really? I typed stop, and got atp?
 
2012-11-12 12:08:20 AM

hubiestubert: Perhaps the Vatican should worry about Rome, and not what folks who aren't Catholic are doing.

That's the issue. Not Catholics. Buddhists. Pagans. Methodists. Lutherans. Unitarians--you know, some of the folks the Catholics ran a Crusade against before they rolled on Jerusalem. The Vatican should worry about what Catholics are doing, and deal with them, and maybe leave governing of a nation that ISN'T Catholic alone. Especially one that is based upon the separation of church and state...

While they're at it, they might want to look a little harder at how their priests are acting within their own churches. Tend to your own knitting. When Bishops aren't moving priests around to keep sexual predators hidden, maybe then they can take a stab at telling folks what is moral or not...


Now I'm off to play Assassin's Creed. I feel like killing some of these self-righteous Catholics.
 
2012-11-12 12:12:50 AM

hubiestubert:
While they're at it, they might want to look a little harder at how their priests are acting within their own churches. Tend to your own knitting. When Bishops aren't moving priests around to keep sexual predators hidden, maybe then they can take a stab at telling folks what is moral or not...


the Vatican is really getting worried. they've been seeing a slow decline in influence for a while now - not just with the gay marriage issue but here in the US the explosive growth of various christian and pseudo-christian sects has undermined the authority of the Catholic church in north america. In particular, the refusal to even acknowledge the prosperity gospel heresy or deal with it in any way has cost them power, influence AND money in this country and, to a lesser extent, canada. why go to a catholic church and deal with that icky social justice issue when you could just call yourself 'christian' and hoard cash like a greedy miser and get told God WANTS you to be a rich, evil sociopathic bastard? all the money, none of the guilt. no wonder the Vatican is losing influence.
 
2012-11-12 12:17:14 AM

Weaver95: hubiestubert:
While they're at it, they might want to look a little harder at how their priests are acting within their own churches. Tend to your own knitting. When Bishops aren't moving priests around to keep sexual predators hidden, maybe then they can take a stab at telling folks what is moral or not...

the Vatican is really getting worried. they've been seeing a slow decline in influence for a while now - not just with the gay marriage issue but here in the US the explosive growth of various christian and pseudo-christian sects has undermined the authority of the Catholic church in north america. In particular, the refusal to even acknowledge the prosperity gospel heresy or deal with it in any way has cost them power, influence AND money in this country and, to a lesser extent, canada. why go to a catholic church and deal with that icky social justice issue when you could just call yourself 'christian' and hoard cash like a greedy miser and get told God WANTS you to be a rich, evil sociopathic bastard? all the money, none of the guilt. no wonder the Vatican is losing influence.


No matter what, they were poised to "lose" no matter who won this election. Obama or the Mormon, neither are exactly the Catholic Church's best friend. Though, in fairness, Romney was at least willing to talk out of both sides of his mouth to them...
 
2012-11-12 12:23:06 AM
Don't worry. They'll figure it out 600 years after the rest of the world does, as usual.
 
2012-11-12 12:25:32 AM

hubiestubert:

No matter what, they were poised to "lose" no matter who won this election. Obama or the Mormon, neither are exactly the Catholic Church's best friend. Though, in fairness, Romney was at least willing to talk out of both sides of his mouth to them...


to be honest though, i'm not sure there's much the vatican CAN do about their reversal of fortunes here in the US. oddly enough they aren't the only ones having a rough time in the theology department these days. the US evangelicals are feeling more than a bit scorched after Romney's election night loss.
 
2012-11-12 12:31:27 AM

Weaver95: hubiestubert:

No matter what, they were poised to "lose" no matter who won this election. Obama or the Mormon, neither are exactly the Catholic Church's best friend. Though, in fairness, Romney was at least willing to talk out of both sides of his mouth to them...

to be honest though, i'm not sure there's much the vatican CAN do about their reversal of fortunes here in the US. oddly enough they aren't the only ones having a rough time in the theology department these days. the US evangelicals are feeling more than a bit scorched after Romney's election night loss.


America has never been exactly a bastion for the Catholics, not with such a strong Protestant population, and that pesky "freedom of religion" has meant that they can't simply bully folks to get their way. There is a coalition between the Catholics and Protestants on issues like abortion and birth control, but that is tenuous at best. They can ally on some things, but in the end, they're competitors for a market...
 
2012-11-12 12:32:44 AM
And the gap between the Catholic hierarchy and practicing Catholics grows wider. So it goes.
 
2012-11-12 12:33:09 AM

hubiestubert:
America has never been exactly a bastion for the Catholics, not with such a strong Protestant population, and that pesky "freedom of religion" has meant that they can't simply bully folks to get their way. There is a coalition between the Catholics and Protestants on issues like abortion and birth control, but that is tenuous at best. They can ally on some things, but in the end, they're competitors for a market...


so long as their religious conflicts don't become violent, I honestly don't care what our various christian sects say about one another.
 
2012-11-12 12:34:16 AM

hubiestubert: Weaver95: hubiestubert:

No matter what, they were poised to "lose" no matter who won this election. Obama or the Mormon, neither are exactly the Catholic Church's best friend. Though, in fairness, Romney was at least willing to talk out of both sides of his mouth to them...

to be honest though, i'm not sure there's much the vatican CAN do about their reversal of fortunes here in the US. oddly enough they aren't the only ones having a rough time in the theology department these days. the US evangelicals are feeling more than a bit scorched after Romney's election night loss.

America has never been exactly a bastion for the Catholics, not with such a strong Protestant population, and that pesky "freedom of religion" has meant that they can't simply bully folks to get their way. There is a coalition between the Catholics and Protestants on issues like abortion and birth control, but that is tenuous at best. They can ally on some things, but in the end, they're competitors for a market...


Why. do you think, does every minority group suddenly find themselves blessed with a candidate for sainthood lately?

/it's like a frikkin miracle
 
2012-11-12 12:36:53 AM

SnarfVader: They'll get over it.


They'll get over it.
 
2012-11-12 12:44:18 AM

Weaver95: hubiestubert:
America has never been exactly a bastion for the Catholics, not with such a strong Protestant population, and that pesky "freedom of religion" has meant that they can't simply bully folks to get their way. There is a coalition t's between the Catholics and Protestants on issues like abortion and birth control, but that is tenuous at best. They can ally on some things, but in the end, they're competitors for a market...

so long as their religious conflicts don't become violent, I honestly don't care what our various christian sects say about one another.


I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian, and my Church's hierarchy has abandoned its mission. "Free will" is a Catholic tenet, and if you get an abortion, use birth control or get gay married, that's between you and God. Christ never told us to outlaw sin, just told us to forgive the sinner.
 
2012-11-12 12:44:54 AM
The Church's inability to see their way towards sanctioning treating gay folks the same way anyone would want to be treated ie. like full citizens with equal rights tells me a few things.

A) They neither get nor practice the core message of Jesus' teachings.
B) Their relevancy and moral authority will likely continue to erode even past their current low levels.
C) They cynically recognize that a lot of their priests are self-loathing closeted gay men who pursue a religious calling in order to escape persecution and that normalizing gay people into general society will cut into those flagging numbers even further.

Atheist/Recovering Catholic.
 
2012-11-12 12:45:08 AM
i.imgur.com

Meh. You have no power here.
 
2012-11-12 12:46:06 AM
Wading through all of the somewhat confusing and often contradictory text of the Bible, which was assembled by men, who were under the influences of their times, I might point out that God made Man in His own image.

I think the intentions were good, but over the centuries, there seems to have been a few mutations as I've seen some scary looking folks out there.

Any how, God made everything, which goes along with Intelligent Design. That means He created homosexuality for a specific reason. After all, homosexuals did not request to be born Gay, just as Heterosexuals did not ask to be born men or women.

Along came Man who took 'The Word' and promptly interpreted it, changed it, 'adjusted it' and frequently, badly translated it from the original Hebrew. (Patricidal Society, remember. Men were basically GODS. Women were slaves and property. Children were valued even less and could be killed if they pi$$ed off Dad. With no consequences.)
We all know how easy it is to distort a religion's values, twisting them to suite the desires of the Holy Leaders. (That whole no masturbation thing or God will punish you bit. Taken out of context. The masturbator was punished, but only because he refused a direct order by God to impregnate the wife of another man and 'spilled his seed upon the ground'. God struck him blind for his defiance. That doesn't mean it's a sin to wank your winkie.)

[Insert much repeated theory of why God created homosexuality and much repeated reasons why humans are genetically programmed to be repelled by same sex unions. Toss in the 'Great Prison Contradiction'.]

However, it all boils down to homosexuals being programmed to be homosexual. They can't change it just like no one can change their skin color. Genetics gives you your skin hue, eye and hair color, body size and type and plays a hefty role in your psychology. Which is why Crazy can run in family lines along with certain illnesses.

I recall when folks hated the following and had scores of reasons to do so: the Irish, the Chinese, the Italians, the Blacks and the Brits. There was a bit of a war fought between the north and the south, with each side despising the other, no matter what color they were.

Then I recall the Vatican getting involved with fleeing German war criminals, helping them to escape Germany. I also recall them not doing a whole heck of a lot to stand up against Hitler slaughtering the Jews.

They had their reasons, but that doesn't make them right.

Just as this stupidity over homosexuals isn't right.

The Bible also says you shouldn't steal. Folks do. All of the time. You shouldn't fool with a married person. A shiat load of folks ignore that one. You should honor your Mom and Dad -- and today the majority dump them in nursing homes to die less noisily since caring for them in their homes is a chore. You shouldn't bare false witness, but folks lie in court daily.

I don't notice anyone preventing them from their right to marriage. Those are supposed to be as big a sin as a man laying with a man as a woman or a woman laying with a woman as a man.

Don't forget, you shouldn't take the Lord's name in vain which basically means about 99.999% of FARKer's are already damned.

Oh, yeah. There's this little thing about Jesus dieing on the cross for our sins. According to many religious leaders, that means our sins are forgiven -- before we commit them. Technically. The concept can be a bit confusing since the creation of Hell and the Devil and all.

Homosexuals, technically, have been forgiven also.

Chew on that for a bit.
 
2012-11-12 12:47:47 AM

simplicimus:
I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian, and my Church's hierarchy has abandoned its mission. "Free will" is a Catholic tenet, and if you get an abortion, use birth control or get gay married, that's between you and God. Christ never told us to outlaw sin, just told us to forgive the sinner.


i'm starting to wonder if the pagans have it right - there's more than ONE god out there and they all might be equally valid. meh - like I said, so long as it stays non-violent it's all good.
 
2012-11-12 12:52:35 AM

Weaver95: simplicimus:
I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian, and my Church's hierarchy has abandoned its mission. "Free will" is a Catholic tenet, and if you get an abortion, use birth control or get gay married, that's between you and God. Christ never told us to outlaw sin, just told us to forgive the sinner.

i'm starting to wonder if the pagans have it right - there's more than ONE god out there and they all might be equally valid. meh - like I said, so long as it stays non-violent it's all good.


Oh, heck, as a Catholic I have three Gods for the price of one. One for vengeance, one for forgiveness and one for wisdom.
 
2012-11-12 12:59:24 AM

simplicimus: I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian


Interesting. I am agnostic so maybe that is why I dont understand the schisms. I thought believing in the teachings of Christ made one a Christian.
 
2012-11-12 01:02:13 AM
Rik01:
Too much text too copy for my browser. However Don't forget, you shouldn't take the Lord's name in vain which basically means about 99.999% of FARKer's are already damned. According to the Talmud that means don't make promises to God you won't keep, and has nothing to do with profanity.
 
2012-11-12 01:05:14 AM

Frederick: simplicimus: I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian

Interesting. I am agnostic so maybe that is why I dont understand the schisms. I thought believing in the teachings of Christ made one a Christian.


No, practicing the teachings of Christ would make one a Christian, but very few people do that.
 
2012-11-12 01:06:59 AM
This makes me want to get gay married just to piss him off.
 
2012-11-12 01:14:30 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: If we legalized kiddie diddling they'd be throwing a frikkin party


No, they'd be saying it was wrong for you to do it.
 
2012-11-12 01:22:28 AM

Frederick: simplicimus: I do. I no longer buy into the "Christian" crap, if Mormons are now Christians . I'm Catholic, not Christian

Interesting. I am agnostic so maybe that is why I dont understand the schisms. I thought believing in the teachings of Christ made one a Christian.


Ok, here's the current schisms from Catholicism:
Anglican/Episcopalian: Henry 8 needed an male heir. Catherine of Aragon didn't come through, Henry wanted an annulment, Pope said no, so Henry started his own religion. Basically Catholicism w/o a Pope.
Lutheran: Martin Luther, a monk, wanted to get some strange, ended up marrying an ex-nun. Also had some gripes about Catholic fund raising methods.
Methodist: Earn your way into heaven through good deeds (nice group of people as far as heretics go)
Then Calvinism, Anabaptists, and the rest and the whole religion falls apart.
 
2012-11-12 01:40:54 AM

This About That: Unless the right-wingers blow it all up, the biggest questions that will have to be faced (or ignored at great peril) in the coming century or so will be:

1. How does the human race maintain some survivable form of moral conduct in the absence of superstition and Big Religion?


Call me crazy, but I'd go for something along the lines of "by having people be held accountable by the rules and laws of their societies". Yes these are dynamic and may change with times, but judging by the history of human rights, it seems like the overall trend has been moving in the right direction of equal rights for everyone. Usually in spite of superstition and religion. So, based on the history of human rights, I'd say moral conduct will in the end be better off without religion constantly holding changes for the better back.

2. How does the human race maintain some survivable form of civil and economic organization in the absence of oligarchs and mindless authoritarians?

Even if #1 were to become the case, I don't think these things would go away, so I'm not sure of the utility of this question. I'd say, the same as usual, doing the best they can while dealing with both internal and external economic factors. Making sure the population is educated and understands their part of the social contract would probably go a long way towards keeping things economically stable.

3. How does the human race rid itself of those evils?

Unfortunately, we probably don't. Maintaining an educated position on all aspects of society is exhausting and at least impractical, if not impossible. There will always be people who will be willing to let someone else do the thinking for them, and there will be those who believe against all evidence that the people they choose are the best and everyone else is wrong, or the system they are in is the best and can do no wrong.

I doubt this aspect of human nature will ever change.

SilentStrider: Atp? Really? I typed stop, and got atp?


Never underestimate the power of adenosine triphosphate.

Anyway, to the Pope: Yeah? GOOD! I'd sooner take moral guidance from that inanimate rock over there than from your church. At least the rock has no problem with equal rights for all regardless of gender, sexuality, ethnic group, skin color, religion (or lackthereof), or any other aspect of humanity.
 
2012-11-12 02:15:53 AM
I came here for the "So do the Alter Boys" comment


Left feeling like Father Flanagan should not have touched me there
 
2012-11-12 02:18:10 AM
Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?
 
2012-11-12 02:19:12 AM
www.mopo.ca
 
2012-11-12 02:22:23 AM

alienated: Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?


Well, according to a recent poll, 60% of Catholics are saying "Well man, that's like just your opinion".
 
2012-11-12 02:28:01 AM

simplicimus: alienated: Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?

Well, according to a recent poll, 60% of Catholics are saying "Well man, that's like just your opinion".


Fine.Question still stands. , - thats how they roll ...
 
2012-11-12 02:36:20 AM

alienated: simplicimus: alienated: Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?

Well, according to a recent poll, 60% of Catholics are saying "Well man, that's like just your opinion".

Fine.Question still stands. , - thats how they roll ...


Well, very few do. 31% of the 24% of the population of the US that identifies as Catholic cares. Too tired to do the math.
 
2012-11-12 03:02:24 AM

Weaver95: which is fine - I mean nobody ever said that we all had to be ok with gay marriage. But the Vatican doesn't make the rules in this country. they can (and do) set the rules in THEIR nation, and i'm sure they've got a pretty decent influence around the world...but when it comes down to brass tacks, the Vatican gets a say, they don't get their way. the people who live HERE get to decide for themselves what's right and what's legal.


More Specifically Weaver, they can set up the rules for their Religion. As long as this country does not force them to go against their religion, they should force their religion on us.
 
2012-11-12 03:08:18 AM

simplicimus: alienated: simplicimus: alienated: Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?

Well, according to a recent poll, 60% of Catholics are saying "Well man, that's like just your opinion".

Fine.Question still stands. , - thats how they roll ...

Well, very few do. 31% of the 24% of the population of the US that identifies as Catholic cares. Too tired to do the math.


In all fairness, American Catholics really rarely listen to Rome.

Mainly because of the Confession loopholes,
 
2012-11-12 03:14:00 AM

Darth_Lukecash: simplicimus: alienated: simplicimus: alienated: Has anyone mentioned that we as a nation dont give a damn what rome says >?

Well, according to a recent poll, 60% of Catholics are saying "Well man, that's like just your opinion".

Fine.Question still stands. , - thats how they roll ...

Well, very few do. 31% of the 24% of the population of the US that identifies as Catholic cares. Too tired to do the math.

In all fairness, American Catholics really rarely listen to Rome.

Mainly because of the Confession loopholes,


Heh. I haven't been to confession since 1976. I have sins I don't regret and I'm not going to be a hypocrite about it.
 
2012-11-12 04:20:36 AM
Nice one Subby. Butthurt.

i was raised Catholic.
i don't really like being Catholic.
 
2012-11-12 04:21:26 AM
Polygamy? I'm fine with it
Polyandry? I'm fine with it
Never getting marked? I'm fine with it
I draw the line at informed, consenting adults.
Some things really are simple.
 
2012-11-12 04:22:45 AM
I'm sorry, I have a hard time hearing you over the cries of the children raped by priests you're protecting, Bishop.
 
2012-11-12 04:24:14 AM

propasaurus: [www.mopo.ca image 326x396]


Jack McGurkin...

Sophomoric, perhaps, but I LOL'd.
 
2012-11-12 04:24:18 AM
They're only upset because now when they molest little boys they'll have to promise to marry them when they're 18.

That takes the thrill out of the abuse for them.
 
2012-11-12 04:25:30 AM
And if this was the Holy Roman Empire, that would mean something.
 
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