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(Daily Kos)   More GOP infighting: The moderates are revolting   (dailykos.com) divider line 52
    More: Followup, GOP, infighting, Speaker Boehner, moderates, Saxby Chambliss, Health Care, International, American Solutions  
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9528 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Nov 2012 at 9:39 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2012-11-11 09:46:05 PM  
10 votes:
oi50.tinypic.com 
2012-11-11 11:43:43 PM  
6 votes:
What they call a "Moderate" used to simply be a Conservative. The party has shifted HARD to the radical fringe, and still claim to be Conservative, when they are anything but.

Conservatism is based on a principles of thought and careful consideration of policy and actions. Not simple opposition to what the other guys propose, to be on the opposite side of an issue, and that is really more what we have now. It isn't even radical, it is just simply contrarian. "If'n he's fer it, I'mma ag'in it!" is NOT Conservatism. You cannot claim to be a fiscal Conservative and vote for blowing up the budget, just to "make a point." You can't claim to love the Constitution while systematically trying to deny citizens their rights. You cannot claim to be for freedom of religion and then seek to deny others their right to worship, or not, as they choose.

It isn't that "Moderates" are fleeing. It's that Conservatives are fleeing. Fleeing from a nest of radicals who despise anything that isn't Gods, Guns and Glory, and damn the budgets, damn the poor, damn the homos, damn the Unitarians, the Buddhists, and anyone else who isn't of the People of the Book, and a full third of those folks are right out too.

It isn't that "Moderates" are leaving, it's that Conservatives are leaving. Like myself. Like others around me. We cannot stay in a party that will NOT listen to reason, that will not accept facts, that wants to cherry pick its history and even matters of geography. When "math and science" becomes your "enemy" because it repeatedly refutes claims made, there's an issue. Good Conservatism adjusts course with the nation. Serves considered policy that relates directly with the facts on the ground. Not what we wish it were, but what is actually happening. NeoCons are in firm control of the party, and for many years, they were the wackadoodle fringe right, until Reagan and Bush started bringing them into the fold, and coupled with the inclusion of the Religious Right, it pushed the party away from good Conservatism, and far into the land of radicalism, and now with religious Fundamentalists who despise our freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and that pesky separation of church and state, and THAT is a real danger. Because these folks don't seem to realize that we tried official state religions during the Articles of Confederation. People got hung for being in the wrong state. And that is the basis for religious freedom. Not some pie in the sky ideal, but from a very real issue that arose when the state and ministries were bound together. We've done it. It didn't go well. Not then, and it won't go well now.

Good Conservatism doesn't cherry pick from history, it learns lessons to apply today from the past. Not to hold up examples of what we want, but to see what's been tried before that did and DID NOT work. The willful ignorance to build up a case that has no basis in fact is a huge issue, and that is why folks are fleeing, and sadly, that means that the Idiot Brigade is being left behind, and that only makes their voices even louder...
2012-11-11 05:14:34 PM  
6 votes:

mikemoto: Before you liberals get too cocky, you might want to look to Canada where the Conservative Party took an unbelievable shellacking in 1993. Take a guess which party controls their government now.


The Progressive Conservative Party that went down is not the same party that came back from the grave. It's like when somebody is bitten by a vampire and comes back. They are not the same loved one you buried. They are a blood-sucking demon in human form.

The same thing happened to the Republican Party--it was once the party of Lincoln and the abolitionists (far to the left of him). It was once a centrist party, with liberal and moderate wings keeping it stable and close to the people of small town, middle class America.

But it was taken over from within like a caterpillar being devoured by wasp larvae.

Today's Conservatives are basically the Northern wing of the Republicans. They are fundamentalist Christians, anti-tax suburbanites and ass-kissers of the Oil Patch and the Super Rich Tories of Toronto.

To give you an idea, the two surviving Members of Parliament after the crash were Elsie Wayne (a right-winger from Saint John, New Brunswick, whose opinions are often unreconstructed and whose language and methods are "colourful" even by right-wing New Brunswick standards, and Jean Charest, who is still he Liberal Prime Minister (or Premier) of Quebec.

Jean Charest is more to the left than a Massachusetts Republican and Elsie, God Bless Her, is a flake who is prone to wearing Christmas sweaters that light up more than her latest anti-gay statement.

The Conservative Party died. It is just the reanimated corpse that is walking the Earth. The New Conservatives, like their neo-Con and libertarian American counterparts, are no more centrist, moderate, liberal, or sane than the Reverend Bumfackus of the Super-Church of Jesus Christ of Backwoods, Nigeria is a Universalist Christian.

he vampire or zombie analogy is a sound one. The old name covers a skin full of new sins and very, very old cons.

Harper is a cunning player but his only "real" job as a trained economist was to shill for rich Tories on every anti-tax, anti-environment, and anti-liberal con job that came down the tubes from the ultra-right think tansks.

The Conservative Party was weak when it merged with the Reform Party, and neither of those two parties really survive in the present-day Conservative Party. A revolution has taken place, using the right wing peasantry and working class reactionaries as cannon fodder, but the only result of the revolution was o place the revolutionaries at the top. Not unlike the Mexican Revolution, the French Revoluition, the Russian Revolution, the American Revolution, etc.

Remember your horror movies: what you get back from the grave is not what you buried.
2012-11-11 04:56:29 PM  
6 votes:

mikemoto: Before you liberals get too cocky, you might want to look to Canada where the Conservative Party took an unbelievable shellacking in 1993. Take a guess which party controls their government now.


Candian conservatives aren't equatable to US Conservatives. Not by a long shot.

Canadian conservatives are equatable to US Blue dogs at WORST.
2012-11-11 05:38:38 PM  
5 votes:

Aarontology: No they won't.

They'll fall in line like they always do. If they really wanted to revolt, they'd leave and become blue dogs or start their own center right party.


Why do we need another center right party, we already have Democrats.
2012-11-11 05:12:48 PM  
5 votes:
People are blowing this out of proportion again. I swear articles are being rerun from 2008 at this point. The GOP will not fall apart.
2012-11-11 05:12:20 PM  
4 votes:

mikemoto: Before you liberals get too cocky, you might want to look to Canada where the Conservative Party took an unbelievable shellacking in 1993. Take a guess which party controls their government now.


Canadian conservatives think the GOP is batshiate insane. Canadian conservatives could not get elected in the US South
2012-11-12 12:30:18 AM  
3 votes:

clkeagle: oi50.tinypic.com


images59.fotki.com
2012-11-11 11:33:33 PM  
3 votes:

Komplex: Now the only thing these groups have in common is fear. Evangelicals fear the well educated and women. Uneducated white men fear/resent Blacks, Hispanics and Asians, and the insanely rich people fear everybody.


i159.photobucket.com
2012-11-11 09:51:46 PM  
3 votes:
If the Republican Party would just quit bashing immigrants, science, gays, and women's reproductive health and prove to me that 'trickle down' actually works, I might be convinced to vote for them again.

But then they'd be Democrats, so who cares anyway?
2012-11-11 08:09:33 PM  
3 votes:

vpb: Ambivalence: mikemoto: Before you liberals get too cocky, you might want to look to Canada where the Conservative Party took an unbelievable shellacking in 1993. Take a guess which party controls their government now.

Candian conservatives aren't equatable to US Conservatives. Not by a long shot.

Canadian conservatives are equatable to US Blue dogs at WORST.

Yep. The Democratic party would qualify as conservative pretty must anywhere outside of the US. The GOP would be a far right party.


I really more wish people would understand this. The nearest thing the UK has to the current GOP is the National Front. Read their policy positions -- the NF, which is considered a far-right nationalist group in the UK, is actually more liberal than the current GOP. The only thing more "radical" that the NF does is they actually acknowledge their white-supremacist position, where the GOP deals in dog whistles and euphemisms about "real Americans".
2012-11-11 08:00:34 PM  
3 votes:

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Who is assuming that?


No one. I don't even want to hear about 2016. Can we have 6 months to digest this whole nightmare?
2012-11-11 06:58:20 PM  
3 votes:
"It's one thing to shoot yourself in the foot, just don't reload the gun," Graham said,

The real first openly lesbian US Senator has a point there.

Here's the thing.

The GOP's "balk at everything" strategy they've kept up for the last 4 years but especially last two WILL NOT FLY for the next 4.

The brighter professional pols in the GOP recognize this and are trying to signal the others of the sea change but the Teatard contingent are doubling down on derp and calling them all RINOs.

And me?

I'mma just sitting in front of my 'puter scarfing down popcorn and washing it down with a fresh bottle of "GOP Tears of Unfathomable Sadness".

Mmmm 2012, an excellent year.  :>D
2012-11-11 04:37:39 PM  
3 votes:
Before you liberals get too cocky, you might want to look to Canada where the Conservative Party took an unbelievable shellacking in 1993. Take a guess which party controls their government now.
2012-11-11 11:49:37 PM  
2 votes:

hubiestubert: What they call a "Moderate" used to simply be a Conservative. The party has shifted HARD to the radical fringe, and still claim to be Conservative, when they are anything but.


I think we need to stop beating around the bush:.

s16.postimage.org

The GOP has become Fascist.
2012-11-11 11:23:11 PM  
2 votes:

Lsherm: NFA: mikemoto: Before you liberals get too cocky, you might want to look to Canada where the Conservative Party took an unbelievable shellacking in 1993. Take a guess which party controls their government now.


Politics, it works like a pendulum. Who would have guessed?

In 2004 there were at least as many stories about the impending collapse of the Democratic party. In 1996 there were the same stories about the collapse of the Republican party. 1984? You would have thought Ronald Reagan had slaughtered the Democratic party itself. Any time a President wins a second term the press treats it like it was unexpected instead of the usual pattern in national elections.


No. Usually when presidents win second terms it's because of a policy or economic reason. Clinton & Reagan for the economy, Bush because of 9/11 and so forth. This losing party made a few rhetorical and policy changes and when the other party faltered they were able to step into the void.

This was the first re-election where demographics were a critical factor. The GOP didn't just get shellacked on ethnic minorities (Blacks, Hispanics and Asians(!?)) and women. But also the well-educated and urban.

If we look at the core of the GOP you have evangelicals, rural folks, uneducated white men & insanely rich people. Now the only thing these groups have in common is fear. Evangelicals fear the well educated and women. Uneducated white men fear/resent Blacks, Hispanics and Asians, and the insanely rich people fear everybody.

So if you try to promote economic policies which line up uneducated white man, with Hispanics, Blacks and Asians you'll lose the Insanely Rich. If you try to bring in Urban people, you lose your rural base of support. If you try to bring in the women and well educated you'll lose the evangelicals.

This is why the GOP is f*cked.
2012-11-11 10:10:46 PM  
2 votes:
The line I found disturbing nfrom that articl is this one:

"First, of course, is that the GOP won't be able to get anywhere near 50% of the vote. Democrats will win. More so, democrats can win without the need for blue dogs. We will be able to pass progressive legislation without needing to water it down."

This is precisely what happened between 1972 and 1980. The repubs disgraced themselves, the government was thrown into the hands of the Democrats and they proceeded to push through thoughtless progressive legislation that wrecked the economy and paved the way for the Reagan Revolution. Come to think of it, it happened again in 2000 when the Democrats disgraced themselves (or were tricked into giving the appearance of being disgraced), the government was thrown into the hands of the repubs and they proceeded to push through thoughtless conservative legislation that wrecked the economy and paved the way for Obama. If the Democrats can keep their pants zipped up, avoid hubris and put country before ideology, they have a chance of holding on to power; more importantly, of doing something useful with it. But they probably won't. 

Wouldn't it be nice to having two grown-up parties again, one dedicated to making the country a better place for the poor and the disadvantaged, one to keeping the country on an even financial keel, neither particularly interested in poking their noses into other people's bedrooms? Sigh, the good old days...
2012-11-11 09:29:53 PM  
2 votes:
The Reactionaries have not bolted to Virgil Goode and the Constitution Party. When they do, then we'll see some changes. Until that happens, there will be no breakdown of the Republican Party.
2012-11-11 09:07:30 PM  
2 votes:
Hannity and Co. are embracing the Dem stance on immigration. Bill Kristol is giving the OK to raise taxes on the rich. This election is already having major effects on the future of the US, and it hasn't even been a full week.
2012-11-11 08:52:33 PM  
2 votes:

GAT_00: vpb: GAT_00: People are blowing this out of proportion again. I swear articles are being rerun from 2008 at this point. The GOP will not fall apart.

No, but it will change.

Yep, it's going to go further right.


And the further right it goes the smaller and more irrelevant it will become.
2012-11-11 06:21:47 PM  
2 votes:

GAT_00: The GOP will not fall apart.


Hm. What odds would you want to give for a wager on that? Specifically, with you paying out if more than 20% of the current House GOP membership OR more than half the Senate GOP membership leave the GOP before election day 2014, whether defecting to the Democrats or establishing a new party.

Though a more interesting question might be what odds Nate Silver would give....
2012-11-12 08:05:39 PM  
1 votes:
i.imgur.com

/bad kitty, meddling with a pro's artwork!
2012-11-12 10:44:54 AM  
1 votes:

Some 'Splainin' To Do:
I don't care if the Republicans come back so long as they learn a few things on the way:

* Stop demonizing immigrants
* Stop demonizing Muslims
* Stop demonizing gays
* Stop demonizing atheists
* Stop demonizing women
* Stop demonizing blacks

* Stop demonizing science and scientists
* Respect the separation of church and state
2012-11-12 08:04:47 AM  
1 votes:

dervish16108: "Prosperity Doctrine" as preached by many of the popular evangelicals today.


I'm not sure I count as Christian anymore (grew up in the very liberal UCC, spiritual views have drifted-I'm probably more a Pratchettist/Pratchian, if anything), but the Prosperity Doctrine still makes me rage, and rage hard.

I mean, the bible, in multiple places, EXPLICITLY STATES IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. "You cannot serve both God and Mammon" "God causes the sun to shine on the just and unjust, and rain to fall on the good and the wicked", etc etc.

I just. It. ARRRGGGGGHHH
2012-11-12 02:17:50 AM  
1 votes:
The Republicans won't revolt until they lose control of the house, the Dems have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate (a real one, not 2008), and Dems have won 3 or more consecutive presidential races in a row. That is a pretty tall order and won't likely happen. Dems will have to be in power after the next Census to redraw the lines and another charismatic leader has to come out of the party. The Republicans will continue doing what they did the last four years: stonewall until the next election. Sure it didn't work in 2012, but it worked great in 2010. It wouldn't surprise me at all that the Dems take another hit in 2014 if they didn't learn their lesson in 2010.

Right now, I just don't see anyone able to take the reins after Obama leaves and Dems will probably be left with Gore 2.0. Most of the names I've seen floating around would be terrible.
2012-11-12 01:37:49 AM  
1 votes:
You went the wrong way, old King Mittens,
Now we must put you on the shelf.
That's why the people are revolting, 'cause Mittens,
You're pretty revolting yourself!
2012-11-12 01:34:41 AM  
1 votes:

Uchiha_Cycliste: Gyrfalcon: Probably tossing the Teahadists is the easiest course open to them, since it would be easier to put in old-school politicians in most areas; but we'll see if the Tea Party, having tasted the heady nectar of political power, are willing to go back to being on the outside looking in.

I don't think this is really that difficult of a thing to force to happen. I also believe that it is completely out of the GOPs hands. The tea-party was essentially, nurtured and created by fox news, under the guise of a grass roots movement (something we all know to be utter codswallop). If Fox News was willing to completely marginalize these idiots that would be the end of them. They have one outlet for their idiocy, and while the right-wing derp-o-sphere-of-tubes will continue to carry their water for them, they simply don't have enough penetration into American households to make a difference. They are loud for sure, but have a tiny amount of real influence. It only seems like they have more because they are generally walking lock-step with Fox.
Were Fox willing to not give them air-time, the tea party would die on the spot and moderate republicans would have a shot.

On a side note it is sickening that an entertainment outfit has so much control over our politics. Unfortunately, there is no legal mechanism available to lessen their influence.


You must be young. The Tea Party is just the latest manifestation of the John Birch Society which was just a fairly recent version of something that recurs with great regularity. Base human instincts to protect yours manifest as protecting your culture, your wealth, your women and children from the corrupting influence of "them", be they brown, funny talking, or basically anything that isn't your self-proclaimed parochial "we", being whatever group you can attract, whose main virtue is not being "them" and not liking "them" either. One can marginalize such people, sometimes, but they are like weeks that will grow back. They are a permanent fixture of any free society.
2012-11-12 01:28:00 AM  
1 votes:
I can get behind what your desires are for the party. but you are completely sidestepping the issue at hand, and the question that brought you into the conversation by tearing it apart while not contributing a counter-argument.
We contend that the rich, god-botherers, ignorant whites and rural folks are held together by fear. You claim they are held together by similar policy stances, but I disagree as is evidenced by the policies that are actually passed by the GOP.

If we had a fiscally conservative and socially liberal party I would support it, and we DO and it's the democrats. the GOP spends money we don't have to increase the size of the government and give tax breaks to the rich. I don't see how anything they have done in the last 20 years, or profess to desire for the future could possibly benefit me, or could have you

Finally, show me how my "Rich-bogeyman" is wrong. I was speaking honestly about my political observations in the last 12 years. Everything I've seen the GOP do has shown favoratism towards the rich and disdain for the poor and middle class. How am I mistaken?. It's worth stressing again the wide chasm between what they claim they will do and what they actually do. I'm all for having my thinking updated and changed, but merely saying I'm wrong won't cut it.

\Started college in '01 so it's approx when I started to give a shiat.
2012-11-12 01:10:48 AM  
1 votes:
i.imgur.com
2012-11-12 12:51:10 AM  
1 votes:

Emposter: Oh, yeah, this is totally the end of the current GOP. No, no, not like all the other ends of the GOP people have constantly said is coming. This one is REAL. It's totally going to happen this time.


They are already working to re-write immigration history. Give it a couple years. They will be claiming they were always the party that wanted to allow illegal immigrants citizenship. Just the dirty Democrats wouldn't let them.
2012-11-12 12:05:41 AM  
1 votes:
Dammit. I just wrote a long and boring post with proof that the current Conservative party of Canada is more like the Republicans than they ever used to be, and my browser ate it. I'll keep it short this time.

Key points:
1. Conservative VOTERS in Canada are mostly still left of the Republicans, but the gov't is way further right these days.
2. You can't use politician's statements on public health care as a litmus test for left-vs-right in Canada, because anyone proposing privatization would be run out of town. Voters are terrified of "American-style" healthcare. The conniest con who ever conned would not publicly admit to favouring privatization.

Anyway, here are some articles that show the Cdn gov't being anti-transparency, anti-science, and downright anti-fact in the past few years.
- Stockwell Day questions lower crime rates & "raised eyebrows among skeptical opponents as he suggested statistics showing a decline in crime rates can't be trusted because unreported crime is on the rise."
- Texas conservatives reject Harper's crime plan because Texas tried it and it failed.
- Long-form census cancellation taking toll on StatsCan data.
- Is the Conservative government muzzling federal scientists? Answer in article: YES.
- Stephen Harper's Conservatives mimic Mitt Romney's Republicans (editorial). 

/Hopefully not a threadjack since so many people were asking.
2012-11-11 11:40:40 PM  
1 votes:

clambam: Wouldn't it be nice to having two grown-up parties again, one dedicated to making the country a better place for the poor and the disadvantaged, one to keeping the country on an even financial keel, neither particularly interested in poking their noses into other people's bedrooms? Sigh, the good old days...


What good old days?
They never existed.
America is better off now than it ever was before, even if we are locked between a conservative party and a fascist party and barely able to say we're a first world nation with a straight face anymore.
2012-11-11 11:20:51 PM  
1 votes:

sonorangal: Uchiha_Cycliste: Gyrfalcon: Probably tossing the Teahadists is the easiest course open to them, since it would be easier to put in old-school politicians in most areas; but we'll see if the Tea Party, having tasted the heady nectar of political power, are willing to go back to being on the outside looking in.

I don't think this is really that difficult of a thing to force to happen. I also believe that it is completely out of the GOPs hands. The tea-party was essentially, nurtured and created by fox news, under the guise of a grass roots movement (something we all know to be utter codswallop). If Fox News was willing to completely marginalize these idiots that would be the end of them. They have one outlet for their idiocy, and while the right-wing derp-o-sphere-of-tubes will continue to carry their water for them, they simply don't have enough penetration into American households to make a difference. They are loud for sure, but have a tiny amount of real influence. It only seems like they have more because they are generally walking lock-step with Fox.
Were Fox willing to not give them air-time, the tea party would die on the spot and moderate republicans would have a shot.

On a side note it is sickening that an entertainment outfit has so much control over our politics. Unfortunately, there is no legal mechanism available to lessen their influence.

The man problem with the tea party is that the social conservatives took it over and tried to impose their views. I thought at first that they would break away from the GOP with Koch money and found out it cost more to break away then to parasite off off the GOP Dog.

One way of stopping Fox News is to go after their money and then their audience.


They may have had a tiny (honest) grass-roots beginning but they were completely taken over and supported by Koch money as soon as they went national. The national rallies, the national news coverage, the national "support" were all supported by the Koch brothers (and to a lesser extent) by Fox news. I don't think they ever *really* planned to break away from the GOP, they being the leaders of the tea-baggers and the pupeteers who were really calling the shots. Their intent was a minor rebranding to give the impression of more fervent and widespread support from the masses than they actually had. And for the most part they were successful. My evidence that there was no intention of a break-away is that the GOP latched onto everything they said or did immediately, and that both parties are essentially run by the same people.
While I understand that the Tea-party does have a handful of fervent believers who no longer consider them selves Republicans, the vast majority are Republicans who are backing the tea-party drivel because it is the one
sort-of acceptable outlet they have for their ignorance and their hatred. somehow It suddenly became to scream N1&&er and Muslim and fascist because they changed their names from GOP to Tea-party.

Anyway, back to my main point, the Tea-party lives and dies by their Fox news collusion. There are surely a number of tea-baggers that believe they can survive with out Fox, and many that will try. However they will actually achieve no national success if they are only communicating their goals and accomplishments through right-wind online sites and fwd:fwd:fwd:re:fwd emails. They need Fox News, and Fox news is responsible for the sharp turn to the right we took after that damn Negroe took the presidency.
2012-11-11 11:10:47 PM  
1 votes:
If the Dems were smart, they would not accept moderates GOPpers. they would force a 3rd party to form and split the vote, sealing their cetner-right hold on power for decades.

If the Dems are completely farktards, which seems likely, they will accept the GOP "moderates" and they will take over the democratic party, creating the farthest right-wing 2 party system the world has ever seen. Since the US political system has become a 24 hour, 7 day a week hysterical biatchfest, obviously the Dems will be farktards and the USA is going to be run like Detroit city council forever and ever, or until they cut all their public school funding, fire all their scientists, and a nuclear reactor melts down and they melt everyone's faces off.
2012-11-11 11:03:24 PM  
1 votes:

mikemoto: Another thing to ponder. After 1964, you could easily have written this same article. Goldwater lost far more convincingly than Romney had and where were we 4 years after that? Also, one would assume Hillary is the frontrunner for 2016. Don't be so sure that she's a lock to win the presidency.


I don't think Hillary is a safe assumption. Between Franken, Warren, Castro, etc., the Democratic party has a lot of rising stars that could upset her yet again, even assuming she does take another stab at it.

Remember, many assumed that Hillary would be the frontrunner for 2008, too. And the Clinton administration was a lot fresher in people's minds then.
2012-11-11 10:37:13 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: People are blowing this out of proportion again. I swear articles are being rerun from 2008 at this point. The GOP will not fall apart.


I agree. I think what you're going to have are the strategists and leaders among the GOP decide that they need to moderate their message, then those people will lose their primaries to more conservative challengers (perhaps backed by the tea party, perhaps not), then those more conservative challengers will be elected or not in the general election depending upon how batshiat insane they are.

In other words, just like the last 4 years.
2012-11-11 10:02:27 PM  
1 votes:
28.media.tumblr.com
Stupid Saxby Chambliss.
2012-11-11 09:55:00 PM  
1 votes:
The GOP has a faux reorganization every few years.

Southern Strategy --> Moral Majority (too preachy) --> Christian Coalition (preachy + business, but still a bit too preachy) --> Neocons (all the hate, half the religion) --> Teabaggers (twice the hate, twice the stupidity, with implausible deniability for the Bush years)...

It's just McDonalds or Coke changing logos and slogans to get the same set of workers to vote for the rich.
2012-11-11 09:52:38 PM  
1 votes:

mikemoto: Before you liberals get too cocky, you might want to look to Canada where the Conservative Party took an unbelievable shellacking in 1993. Take a guess which party controls their government now.


Well yeah, but just how conservative is Canada's conservative party compared to the US Democrats? There's nothing wrong with sane conservatism.
2012-11-11 09:46:36 PM  
1 votes:
The real RINO's are the members of the Theocratic-Industrial Complex.

A little religion and encouraging business is republican, but they've been using the whole chicken.
2012-11-11 09:44:02 PM  
1 votes:
Two derps enter, one herp leaves!
i.imgur.com
2012-11-11 09:07:52 PM  
1 votes:

Krymson Tyde: And the further right it goes the smaller and more irrelevant it will become.


Until it's so small you can drown it in a bathtub.
2012-11-11 08:37:19 PM  
1 votes:

vpb: GAT_00: People are blowing this out of proportion again. I swear articles are being rerun from 2008 at this point. The GOP will not fall apart.

No, but it will change.


Yep, it's going to go further right.
2012-11-11 08:01:01 PM  
1 votes:
Wait a minute, Lindsey Graham, Bill Kristol and Saxby Chambliss are the moderates in the party now?
2012-11-11 07:45:39 PM  
1 votes:

mikemoto: Another thing to ponder. After 1964, you could easily have written this same article. Goldwater lost far more convincingly than Romney had and where were we 4 years after that? Also, one would assume Hillary is the frontrunner for 2016. Don't be so sure that she's a lock to win the presidency.


Who is assuming that? If she was, I don't know if she's be stepping down as Secretary of State. I could see her as VP nominee, possibly, but she's getting on in years. She'd be almost 70 if she ran in 2016 IIRC.
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-11-11 07:19:29 PM  
1 votes:

Ambivalence: mikemoto: Before you liberals get too cocky, you might want to look to Canada where the Conservative Party took an unbelievable shellacking in 1993. Take a guess which party controls their government now.

Candian conservatives aren't equatable to US Conservatives. Not by a long shot.

Canadian conservatives are equatable to US Blue dogs at WORST.


Yep. The Democratic party would qualify as conservative pretty must anywhere outside of the US. The GOP would be a far right party.
2012-11-11 06:56:39 PM  
1 votes:
Honestly, aren't most liberal Republicans essentially moderate Democrats? The Democratic Party has shifted so far to the right (though one could argue that it's just more heterogeneous and thus covers both liberal and moderate strands), that I'm not really sure a socially moderate, fiscally conservative, national security hawk Republican would feel SO uncomfortable there.
2012-11-11 06:34:28 PM  
1 votes:

abb3w: GAT_00: The GOP will not fall apart.

Hm. What odds would you want to give for a wager on that? Specifically, with you paying out if more than 20% of the current House GOP membership OR more than half the Senate GOP membership leave the GOP before election day 2014, whether defecting to the Democrats or establishing a new party.

Though a more interesting question might be what odds Nate Silver would give....


I don't know. I'm pretty confident of it, no matter how the fiscal cliff turns out too. Any outcome there will piss them off. Anything will be Boehner giving in. They'll scream a lot but stay GOP.

Now, do you consider the Tea Party Caucus a separate party? That matters too.
2012-11-11 05:05:47 PM  
1 votes:

mikemoto: Before you liberals get too cocky, you might want to look to Canada where the Conservative Party took an unbelievable shellacking in 1993. Take a guess which party controls their government now.


I don't want your newsletter.
2012-11-11 05:04:51 PM  
1 votes:
No they won't.

They'll fall in line like they always do. If they really wanted to revolt, they'd leave and become blue dogs or start their own center right party.
2012-11-11 04:59:28 PM  
1 votes:
Of course moderate Republicans are revolting. That's why they call them RINOS. They smell like the Rhino pen at the zoo, what with their gay brothers and sisters, their "black friends", their insistance on foolishlessness like "making jobs", or "a living wage" or worse yet, "buy America" and "bring our boys home alive".

If they were in charge, you'd get nothing but "liberalism lite". Moderate Republicans agree with centrists and liberals on almost everything except how much to tax moderate Republicans.
2012-11-11 04:54:15 PM  
1 votes:
Mitch McConnell is pretty revolting, and he's not a moderate.
 
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