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(Daily Kos)   More GOP infighting: The moderates are revolting   (dailykos.com) divider line 228
    More: Followup, GOP, infighting, Speaker Boehner, moderates, Saxby Chambliss, Health Care, International, American Solutions  
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9528 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Nov 2012 at 9:39 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-11 11:05:31 PM

Uchiha_Cycliste: Gyrfalcon: Probably tossing the Teahadists is the easiest course open to them, since it would be easier to put in old-school politicians in most areas; but we'll see if the Tea Party, having tasted the heady nectar of political power, are willing to go back to being on the outside looking in.

I don't think this is really that difficult of a thing to force to happen. I also believe that it is completely out of the GOPs hands. The tea-party was essentially, nurtured and created by fox news, under the guise of a grass roots movement (something we all know to be utter codswallop). If Fox News was willing to completely marginalize these idiots that would be the end of them. They have one outlet for their idiocy, and while the right-wing derp-o-sphere-of-tubes will continue to carry their water for them, they simply don't have enough penetration into American households to make a difference. They are loud for sure, but have a tiny amount of real influence. It only seems like they have more because they are generally walking lock-step with Fox.
Were Fox willing to not give them air-time, the tea party would die on the spot and moderate republicans would have a shot.

On a side note it is sickening that an entertainment outfit has so much control over our politics. Unfortunately, there is no legal mechanism available to lessen their influence.


The man problem with the tea party is that the social conservatives took it over and tried to impose their views. I thought at first that they would break away from the GOP with Koch money and found out it cost more to break away then to parasite off off the GOP Dog.

One way of stopping Fox News is to go after their money and then their audience.
 
2012-11-11 11:06:31 PM
They will purge until a solid core of true believers decided to start a fascist movement. I think a political movement with an agenda akin to the Greek Golden Dawn party is a definite possibility here in America.
 
2012-11-11 11:07:58 PM

mikemoto: Before you liberals get too cocky, you might want to look to Canada where the Conservative Party took an unbelievable shellacking in 1993. Take a guess which party controls their government now.


Your point would be more useful if the Canadian Conservative wasn't a little the left to a fair amount of the US Democratic party.
 
2012-11-11 11:09:39 PM

Mentat: Wait a minute, Lindsey Graham, Bill Kristol and Saxby Chambliss are the moderates in the party now?


Chambliss is chickenhawk loser.
 
2012-11-11 11:10:47 PM
If the Dems were smart, they would not accept moderates GOPpers. they would force a 3rd party to form and split the vote, sealing their cetner-right hold on power for decades.

If the Dems are completely farktards, which seems likely, they will accept the GOP "moderates" and they will take over the democratic party, creating the farthest right-wing 2 party system the world has ever seen. Since the US political system has become a 24 hour, 7 day a week hysterical biatchfest, obviously the Dems will be farktards and the USA is going to be run like Detroit city council forever and ever, or until they cut all their public school funding, fire all their scientists, and a nuclear reactor melts down and they melt everyone's faces off.
 
2012-11-11 11:14:24 PM

The Great Gazoo: I'm saying they'll lose their next primary based on the moderation of their message NOW. The rank and file GOP voters are saying that they don't want to hear anything about compromise, moderation, inclusiveness.


I am not so sure about that. One of our Represenatives here (Mike Crapo) just pushed through the legislative process a new wilderness area that was full of compromise, moderation and inclusiveness and he had no prolem with either his primary or general challenger. This is coming from one of the reddest and most 'anti-environmental' states in the union.
 
2012-11-11 11:18:56 PM
I could see the evangelicals splitting off and nominating Rick Santorum for President, only taking the South, Missouri, and Kansas in 2016. The tea party also needs to be aborted. Their views on abortion are medieval. Seriously, they are discussing about rape? Rape is rape and it's a crime.

My Dad predicted this would happen months ago if Romney had lost.
 
2012-11-11 11:20:51 PM

sonorangal: Uchiha_Cycliste: Gyrfalcon: Probably tossing the Teahadists is the easiest course open to them, since it would be easier to put in old-school politicians in most areas; but we'll see if the Tea Party, having tasted the heady nectar of political power, are willing to go back to being on the outside looking in.

I don't think this is really that difficult of a thing to force to happen. I also believe that it is completely out of the GOPs hands. The tea-party was essentially, nurtured and created by fox news, under the guise of a grass roots movement (something we all know to be utter codswallop). If Fox News was willing to completely marginalize these idiots that would be the end of them. They have one outlet for their idiocy, and while the right-wing derp-o-sphere-of-tubes will continue to carry their water for them, they simply don't have enough penetration into American households to make a difference. They are loud for sure, but have a tiny amount of real influence. It only seems like they have more because they are generally walking lock-step with Fox.
Were Fox willing to not give them air-time, the tea party would die on the spot and moderate republicans would have a shot.

On a side note it is sickening that an entertainment outfit has so much control over our politics. Unfortunately, there is no legal mechanism available to lessen their influence.

The man problem with the tea party is that the social conservatives took it over and tried to impose their views. I thought at first that they would break away from the GOP with Koch money and found out it cost more to break away then to parasite off off the GOP Dog.

One way of stopping Fox News is to go after their money and then their audience.


They may have had a tiny (honest) grass-roots beginning but they were completely taken over and supported by Koch money as soon as they went national. The national rallies, the national news coverage, the national "support" were all supported by the Koch brothers (and to a lesser extent) by Fox news. I don't think they ever *really* planned to break away from the GOP, they being the leaders of the tea-baggers and the pupeteers who were really calling the shots. Their intent was a minor rebranding to give the impression of more fervent and widespread support from the masses than they actually had. And for the most part they were successful. My evidence that there was no intention of a break-away is that the GOP latched onto everything they said or did immediately, and that both parties are essentially run by the same people.
While I understand that the Tea-party does have a handful of fervent believers who no longer consider them selves Republicans, the vast majority are Republicans who are backing the tea-party drivel because it is the one
sort-of acceptable outlet they have for their ignorance and their hatred. somehow It suddenly became to scream N1&&er and Muslim and fascist because they changed their names from GOP to Tea-party.

Anyway, back to my main point, the Tea-party lives and dies by their Fox news collusion. There are surely a number of tea-baggers that believe they can survive with out Fox, and many that will try. However they will actually achieve no national success if they are only communicating their goals and accomplishments through right-wind online sites and fwd:fwd:fwd:re:fwd emails. They need Fox News, and Fox news is responsible for the sharp turn to the right we took after that damn Negroe took the presidency.
 
2012-11-11 11:23:11 PM

Lsherm: NFA: mikemoto: Before you liberals get too cocky, you might want to look to Canada where the Conservative Party took an unbelievable shellacking in 1993. Take a guess which party controls their government now.


Politics, it works like a pendulum. Who would have guessed?

In 2004 there were at least as many stories about the impending collapse of the Democratic party. In 1996 there were the same stories about the collapse of the Republican party. 1984? You would have thought Ronald Reagan had slaughtered the Democratic party itself. Any time a President wins a second term the press treats it like it was unexpected instead of the usual pattern in national elections.


No. Usually when presidents win second terms it's because of a policy or economic reason. Clinton & Reagan for the economy, Bush because of 9/11 and so forth. This losing party made a few rhetorical and policy changes and when the other party faltered they were able to step into the void.

This was the first re-election where demographics were a critical factor. The GOP didn't just get shellacked on ethnic minorities (Blacks, Hispanics and Asians(!?)) and women. But also the well-educated and urban.

If we look at the core of the GOP you have evangelicals, rural folks, uneducated white men & insanely rich people. Now the only thing these groups have in common is fear. Evangelicals fear the well educated and women. Uneducated white men fear/resent Blacks, Hispanics and Asians, and the insanely rich people fear everybody.

So if you try to promote economic policies which line up uneducated white man, with Hispanics, Blacks and Asians you'll lose the Insanely Rich. If you try to bring in Urban people, you lose your rural base of support. If you try to bring in the women and well educated you'll lose the evangelicals.

This is why the GOP is f*cked.
 
2012-11-11 11:24:27 PM

sonorangal: The man problem with the tea party is that the social conservatives took it over and tried to impose their views.


Well frankly, I would argue that almost all problems in international and domestic politics is man problems. If we had a lot more women in power we would probably have a lot less problems, which would be nice.

\stupid man world =P
 
2012-11-11 11:25:17 PM
Oh, yeah, this is totally the end of the current GOP. No, no, not like all the other ends of the GOP people have constantly said is coming. This one is REAL. It's totally going to happen this time.
 
2012-11-11 11:27:33 PM

Uchiha_Cycliste: They may have had a tiny (honest) grass-roots beginning but they were completely taken over and supported by Koch money as soon as they went national. The national rallies, the national news coverage, the national "support" were all supported by the Koch broth ...


Fox doesn't want to govern. They want to make money. they make money by dividing and conquering the ideological space in people's minds, and dividing and conquering market shares for their advertisers. So, Fox stands to gain more by leading half the GOP to a party that can't win an election (but can win seats) than they can gain by backing a winning party..
 
2012-11-11 11:28:00 PM

theorellior: Well crap...


No, not that duck. Too much of that already...
 
2012-11-11 11:31:53 PM

Komplex: If we look at the core of the GOP you have evangelicals, rural folks, uneducated white men & insanely rich people. Now the only thing these groups have in common is fear. Evangelicals fear the well educated and women. Uneducated white men fear/resent Blacks, Hispanics and Asians, and the insanely rich people fear everybody.


Lol, you really belive this? Wow. You may want to take a step out of the Fark/Kos Cocoon some time and go visit the real world sometime.

Always amuses me when one side pretends to know exactly what drives the 'other' side. Seriously? Fear?
 
2012-11-11 11:33:14 PM
Feed me your goddamned tears!
 
2012-11-11 11:33:33 PM

Komplex: Now the only thing these groups have in common is fear. Evangelicals fear the well educated and women. Uneducated white men fear/resent Blacks, Hispanics and Asians, and the insanely rich people fear everybody.


i159.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-11 11:35:59 PM

Bucky Katt: There are still moderates in the GOP? Really?


Obama is a moderate Republican. Does he count?
 
2012-11-11 11:37:26 PM
Majick Thise
mikemoto:
Before you liberals get too cocky, you might want to look to Canada where the Conservative Party took an unbelievable shellacking in 1993. Take a guess which party controls their government now.

Canadian conservatives think the GOP is batshiate insane. Canadian conservatives could not get elected in the US South


From what I remember reading, I'm not even sure about their ability to get elected in Canada.
 
2012-11-11 11:40:40 PM

clambam: Wouldn't it be nice to having two grown-up parties again, one dedicated to making the country a better place for the poor and the disadvantaged, one to keeping the country on an even financial keel, neither particularly interested in poking their noses into other people's bedrooms? Sigh, the good old days...


What good old days?
They never existed.
America is better off now than it ever was before, even if we are locked between a conservative party and a fascist party and barely able to say we're a first world nation with a straight face anymore.
 
2012-11-11 11:40:57 PM
Well what needs to happen is that they need kick out that dirty little secret of theirs, the blatant racists. Deal with the hit. They are not going to do the GOP anymore favors from here on out. ( im guessing Hillary/Castro or Biden/Castro in 2016 )

But they wont they already think the answer is more derp

I do expect the Dems to take a knock in 2014 as long as they keep the Senate im happy
 
2012-11-11 11:41:26 PM

Uchiha_Cycliste: sonorangal: The man problem with the tea party is that the social conservatives took it over and tried to impose their views.

Well frankly, I would argue that almost all problems in international and domestic politics is man problems. If we had a lot more women in power we would probably have a lot less problems, which would be nice.

\stupid man world =P


Yes strong woman leaders like Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman.
 
2012-11-11 11:41:28 PM

GAT_00: People are blowing this out of proportion again. I swear articles are being rerun from 2008 at this point. The GOP will not fall apart.


Hell, they already did. We're just watching the corpse twitch at the end of the rope they hung themselves with.
 
2012-11-11 11:42:26 PM

Aarontology: No they won't.

They'll fall in line like they always do. If they really wanted to revolt, they'd leave and become blue dogs or start their own center right party.


Wouldn't it be "red dogs", if they were voting against Republican mainstream?
 
2012-11-11 11:43:15 PM

Cyclometh: GAT_00: People are blowing this out of proportion again. I swear articles are being rerun from 2008 at this point. The GOP will not fall apart.

Hell, they already did. We're just watching the corpse twitch at the end of the rope they hung themselves with.


The party is over (irrelevant) when the money goes elsewhere. They will survive if they focus on shilling for corporations and banks.
 
2012-11-11 11:43:43 PM
What they call a "Moderate" used to simply be a Conservative. The party has shifted HARD to the radical fringe, and still claim to be Conservative, when they are anything but.

Conservatism is based on a principles of thought and careful consideration of policy and actions. Not simple opposition to what the other guys propose, to be on the opposite side of an issue, and that is really more what we have now. It isn't even radical, it is just simply contrarian. "If'n he's fer it, I'mma ag'in it!" is NOT Conservatism. You cannot claim to be a fiscal Conservative and vote for blowing up the budget, just to "make a point." You can't claim to love the Constitution while systematically trying to deny citizens their rights. You cannot claim to be for freedom of religion and then seek to deny others their right to worship, or not, as they choose.

It isn't that "Moderates" are fleeing. It's that Conservatives are fleeing. Fleeing from a nest of radicals who despise anything that isn't Gods, Guns and Glory, and damn the budgets, damn the poor, damn the homos, damn the Unitarians, the Buddhists, and anyone else who isn't of the People of the Book, and a full third of those folks are right out too.

It isn't that "Moderates" are leaving, it's that Conservatives are leaving. Like myself. Like others around me. We cannot stay in a party that will NOT listen to reason, that will not accept facts, that wants to cherry pick its history and even matters of geography. When "math and science" becomes your "enemy" because it repeatedly refutes claims made, there's an issue. Good Conservatism adjusts course with the nation. Serves considered policy that relates directly with the facts on the ground. Not what we wish it were, but what is actually happening. NeoCons are in firm control of the party, and for many years, they were the wackadoodle fringe right, until Reagan and Bush started bringing them into the fold, and coupled with the inclusion of the Religious Right, it pushed the party away from good Conservatism, and far into the land of radicalism, and now with religious Fundamentalists who despise our freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and that pesky separation of church and state, and THAT is a real danger. Because these folks don't seem to realize that we tried official state religions during the Articles of Confederation. People got hung for being in the wrong state. And that is the basis for religious freedom. Not some pie in the sky ideal, but from a very real issue that arose when the state and ministries were bound together. We've done it. It didn't go well. Not then, and it won't go well now.

Good Conservatism doesn't cherry pick from history, it learns lessons to apply today from the past. Not to hold up examples of what we want, but to see what's been tried before that did and DID NOT work. The willful ignorance to build up a case that has no basis in fact is a huge issue, and that is why folks are fleeing, and sadly, that means that the Idiot Brigade is being left behind, and that only makes their voices even louder...
 
2012-11-11 11:45:33 PM

ItchyMcDoogle: Well what needs to happen is that they need kick out that dirty little secret of theirs, the blatant racists. Deal with the hit.


Robert Byrd? I thought he died sometime ago.
 
2012-11-11 11:46:03 PM

nmemkha: Cyclometh: GAT_00: People are blowing this out of proportion again. I swear articles are being rerun from 2008 at this point. The GOP will not fall apart.

Hell, they already did. We're just watching the corpse twitch at the end of the rope they hung themselves with.

The party is over (irrelevant) when the money goes elsewhere. They will survive if they focus on shilling for corporations and banks.


Nah, I don't think so. Just look at the scrabbling Rove is having to do in the aftermath of the election. The super PACs are all taking a LOT of heat from the people who ponied up assloads of money and got jack and shiat for it. They're really pissed and I don't think they'll be throwing good money after bad.

The GOP is facing not only an internal crisis as they try to keep their various ideological bases from eating one another, but an external one as they are going to have a hard time getting money when they have shown they can't deliver.
 
2012-11-11 11:49:37 PM

hubiestubert: What they call a "Moderate" used to simply be a Conservative. The party has shifted HARD to the radical fringe, and still claim to be Conservative, when they are anything but.


I think we need to stop beating around the bush:.

s16.postimage.org

The GOP has become Fascist.
 
2012-11-11 11:50:21 PM

Bennie Crabtree: Uchiha_Cycliste: They may have had a tiny (honest) grass-roots beginning but they were completely taken over and supported by Koch money as soon as they went national. The national rallies, the national news coverage, the national "support" were all supported by the Koch broth ...

Fox doesn't want to govern. They want to make money. they make money by dividing and conquering the ideological space in people's minds, and dividing and conquering market shares for their advertisers. So, Fox stands to gain more by leading half the GOP to a party that can't win an election (but can win seats) than they can gain by backing a winning party..


Yeah, they do stand to gain more financially, but I feel they also share a lot of blame for the state of domestic politics. They are solely responsible for the idea that bullshiat stance that on any issue both sides deserve equal recognition. They are hurting this country my perpetuating that myth. It goes without saying that they are only in it for the money, but they are doing real damage in the meantime. As such it's a real cop-out for them to avoid the issue that they are having a real effect on politics and they can't avoid it by saying that they are an entertainment outlet.
 
2012-11-11 11:50:43 PM

nmemkha: Yes strong woman leaders like Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman.


I think the intention was compassionate pacifists like Golda Mier and Margret Thatcher.
 
2012-11-11 11:51:14 PM

Cyclometh: nmemkha: Cyclometh: GAT_00: People are blowing this out of proportion again. I swear articles are being rerun from 2008 at this point. The GOP will not fall apart.

Hell, they already did. We're just watching the corpse twitch at the end of the rope they hung themselves with.

The party is over (irrelevant) when the money goes elsewhere. They will survive if they focus on shilling for corporations and banks.

Nah, I don't think so. Just look at the scrabbling Rove is having to do in the aftermath of the election. The super PACs are all taking a LOT of heat from the people who ponied up assloads of money and got jack and shiat for it. They're really pissed and I don't think they'll be throwing good money after bad.

The GOP is facing not only an internal crisis as they try to keep their various ideological bases from eating one another, but an external one as they are going to have a hard time getting money when they have shown they can't deliver.


Who knows? I'm no Nate Silver.
 
2012-11-11 11:51:30 PM

nmemkha: Uchiha_Cycliste: sonorangal: The man problem with the tea party is that the social conservatives took it over and tried to impose their views.

Well frankly, I would argue that almost all problems in international and domestic politics is man problems. If we had a lot more women in power we would probably have a lot less problems, which would be nice.

\stupid man world =P

Yes strong woman leaders like Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman.


They are neither women nor leaders =P.

And cut me some slack, it as the best comment I could come up with to take advantage of "man" instead of "main" It was not intended to be useful social commentary.
 
2012-11-11 11:52:36 PM

Uchiha_Cycliste: nmemkha: Uchiha_Cycliste: sonorangal: The man problem with the tea party is that the social conservatives took it over and tried to impose their views.

Well frankly, I would argue that almost all problems in international and domestic politics is man problems. If we had a lot more women in power we would probably have a lot less problems, which would be nice.

\stupid man world =P

Yes strong woman leaders like Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman.

They are neither women nor leaders =P.

And cut me some slack, it as the best comment I could come up with to take advantage of "man" instead of "main" It was not intended to be useful social commentary.


Sorry I played the part of * that guy * =P
 
2012-11-11 11:54:29 PM

HeadLever: Komplex: If we look at the core of the GOP you have evangelicals, rural folks, uneducated white men & insanely rich people. Now the only thing these groups have in common is fear. Evangelicals fear the well educated and women. Uneducated white men fear/resent Blacks, Hispanics and Asians, and the insanely rich people fear everybody.

Lol, you really belive this? Wow. You may want to take a step out of the Fark/Kos Cocoon some time and go visit the real world sometime.

Always amuses me when one side pretends to know exactly what drives the 'other' side. Seriously? Fear?


Yeah, pretty much. What do you think it is? Some kind of profit-driven Illuminati/Bilderberger carefully crafted takeover conspiracy? YOU may want to take a step out of your ivory tower and visit the real world you think you know. Or go read Mein Kampf.

It is fear, because it's the only thing that all the various disparate groups that form the core of the GOP really have in common. Poor whites really have more in common with poor blacks than they do with rich whites; but thanks to 200 years of fearmongering, they don't believe it any more. And rich whites now buy into their own scare stories and think that the n*gger armies are only a step away from driving them all into the sea. It's not some kind of calculated shuck that's going on over at Free Republic and Stormfront: That is genuine paranoia and both the rich and the poor devoutly believe it.

People who like to think that some smart, amoral sociopath cobbled together the Tea Party as a cunning ploy to secure his/her/their/its own ends are just stupid. They've forgotten--if they ever knew--the history of the Nazi party in Germany, or the Fascist party in Italy, or even the Bolshevik party in Russia before they came to power. They started off just like the Teahadists, and they progressed to power just like the Tea Party is doing now. And they played on middle-class fears--just like the GOP is doing now. But if it makes you feel better to pretend this is all just some play-acting the Republicans are doing in a power grab, and they'll quit when they get enough seats back in Congress, by all means, keep thinking that. I know the danger signs, and I'll be able to leave the country in plenty of time if the shiat ever gets real.
 
2012-11-11 11:55:21 PM

nmemkha: Uchiha_Cycliste: nmemkha: Uchiha_Cycliste: sonorangal: The man problem with the tea party is that the social conservatives took it over and tried to impose their views.

Well frankly, I would argue that almost all problems in international and domestic politics is man problems. If we had a lot more women in power we would probably have a lot less problems, which would be nice.

\stupid man world =P

Yes strong woman leaders like Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman.

They are neither women nor leaders =P.

And cut me some slack, it as the best comment I could come up with to take advantage of "man" instead of "main" It was not intended to be useful social commentary.

Sorry I played the part of * that guy * =P


It's fine, I was un-arguably "that guy" first, by taking advantage of the stupid man world.
 
2012-11-11 11:57:50 PM

Emposter: Oh, yeah, this is totally the end of the current GOP. No, no, not like all the other ends of the GOP people have constantly said is coming. This one is REAL. It's totally going to happen this time.



They do seem to have painted themselves into a corner unlike anything they have dealt with in the past. They do one of two things: 1. Come to the center on immigration and social issues to win votes, or 2. Stay hard right and continue to lose elections, which will be guaranteed looking at the shifting demographics that are making the white vote less powerful. Those aren't wishful thinking -- it will be one or the other.

The short-term result will be good for those of us who are Democrats, as either scenarios mean a more liberal America. The long-term result will depend on how the factions within the GOP react to #1 or #2. If the GOP moves to the center, then there is a very good chance that the hardliners like the Teabaggers leave the party to do their own thing -- they aren't known for being rational or wise. If the GOP stays hard right and continues losing elections, then we'll watch as their moderates leave the party, likely going "Independent."

We can debate whether it'll be the end of the GOP, but change is definitely coming to their party.
 
2012-11-11 11:59:40 PM
ITT: Another resounding Democratic victory fueled by the Republicans being far to the right and out of touch with the mainstream means... the Dems should continue moving right.

You people are farking ridiculous.
 
2012-11-11 11:59:49 PM

mscleo: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7428808/80631883#c80631883" target="_blank">Stone Meadow</a>:</b> <i>clambam: The line I found disturbing nfrom that articl is this one:

"First, of course, is that the GOP won't be able to get anywhere near 50% of the vote. Democrats will win. More so, democrats can win without the need for blue dogs. We will be able to pass progressive legislation without needing to water it down."

Agreed...this is wishful thinking. Not only is it unlikely in the extreme given the makeup of the Democratic party right now, but the backlash would be epic. The Dems just need to stay center-right, minding the store and rebuilding the economy without going off the deep end over guns, climate change or any of a number of other hot button issues.</i>


As a libby liberal...

I concur.


I don't live in a major metro area (I did live in Louisville for 8 years but that's hardly "major"), so that may cloud my views, but I just don't see gun control as an important issue for true leftists. Maybe the middle of the road, "compassionate conservatives" that sell themselves as Blue Dogs or whatever, maybe it matters to some of them.

Most of the leftists I know see crime as a consequence of the social order, for the most part. And maybe it was the fear of Bush and the government after 9/11, but I don't really know any leftists at all who are against guns now.


Gun control is like the hairy bobbing man-ass: I don't know who that's for.
 
2012-11-12 12:00:30 AM
Uchiha_Cycliste:Yeah, they do stand to gain more financially, but I feel they also share a lot of blame for the state of domestic politics. They are solely responsible for the idea that bullshiat stance that on any issue both sides deserve equal recognition. They are hurting this country my perpetuating that myth. It goes without saying that they are only in it for the money, but they are doing real damage in the meantime. As such it's a real cop-out for them to avoid the issue that they are having a real effect on politics and they can't avoid it by saying that they are an entertainment outlet.

It's all just spiralling lacunae of bullshiat I guess. And for that, Fox News is dangerous as all hell turned loose.
 
2012-11-12 12:01:12 AM
Oh crap. Sorry about the bold.
 
2012-11-12 12:02:52 AM

Blue_Blazer: I don't live in a major metro area (I did live in Louisville for 8 years but that's hardly "major"), so that may cloud my views, but I just don't see gun control as an important issue for true leftists. Maybe the middle of the road, "compassionate conservatives" that sell themselves as Blue Dogs or whatever, maybe it matters to some of them.

Most of the leftists I know see crime as a consequence of the social order, for the most part. And maybe it was the fear of Bush and the government after 9/11, but I don't really know any leftists at all who are against guns now.


Gun control is like the hairy bobbing man-ass: I don't know who that's for.


Gun control is a centrist liberal issue and pretty much always has been. The actual left is not all the het up about it; it's a NIMBY thing, "trying to do something" about crime and social problems without actually doing the hard work to address the underlying causes.
 
2012-11-12 12:04:03 AM
sometimes bold statements require bold farkups =D

Do you agree that the Tea-baggers live and die by Fox new's willingness to portray them in a favorable light?
 
2012-11-12 12:05:41 AM
Dammit. I just wrote a long and boring post with proof that the current Conservative party of Canada is more like the Republicans than they ever used to be, and my browser ate it. I'll keep it short this time.

Key points:
1. Conservative VOTERS in Canada are mostly still left of the Republicans, but the gov't is way further right these days.
2. You can't use politician's statements on public health care as a litmus test for left-vs-right in Canada, because anyone proposing privatization would be run out of town. Voters are terrified of "American-style" healthcare. The conniest con who ever conned would not publicly admit to favouring privatization.

Anyway, here are some articles that show the Cdn gov't being anti-transparency, anti-science, and downright anti-fact in the past few years.
- Stockwell Day questions lower crime rates & "raised eyebrows among skeptical opponents as he suggested statistics showing a decline in crime rates can't be trusted because unreported crime is on the rise."
- Texas conservatives reject Harper's crime plan because Texas tried it and it failed.
- Long-form census cancellation taking toll on StatsCan data.
- Is the Conservative government muzzling federal scientists? Answer in article: YES.
- Stephen Harper's Conservatives mimic Mitt Romney's Republicans (editorial). 

/Hopefully not a threadjack since so many people were asking.
 
2012-11-12 12:09:44 AM

HeadLever: Komplex: If we look at the core of the GOP you have evangelicals, rural folks, uneducated white men & insanely rich people. Now the only thing these groups have in common is fear. Evangelicals fear the well educated and women. Uneducated white men fear/resent Blacks, Hispanics and Asians, and the insanely rich people fear everybody.

Lol, you really belive this? Wow. You may want to take a step out of the Fark/Kos Cocoon some time and go visit the real world sometime.

Always amuses me when one side pretends to know exactly what drives the 'other' side. Seriously? Fear?


Yes, did you not hear about CRA that actually cased the financial collapse?

Yes. It's the only thing that makes sense. A friend of mine, he's a southern boy, unapologetic confederate, gun nut. And he thinks Obama is going to take his guns. When I explained to him, Obama actually expanded the rights of Concealed Carry where Mitt actually has a lengthy anti-gun position. He still thinks Obama is going to take his guns away.

Or the Rush Limbaugh Sandra fluke?
 
2012-11-12 12:10:18 AM

Gyrfalcon: YOU may want to take a step out of your ivory tower and visit the real world you think you know.


Ivory tower now? Lol. Hard to think that you could get any colder, but you have. You may want to stop making assumptions on the 'other' guy. You are obvioulsy not very good at it.

It is fear, because it's the only thing that all the various disparate groups that form the core of the GOP really have in common.

All humans have fear. To pretend that it is the only thing that holds the republicans together is weaksauce. Seriously, the 'rich fear everybody'? I though that the talking point was that they don't care about anybody.

And rich whites now buy into their own scare stories and think that the n*gger armies are only a step away from driving them all into the sea.

Lolwat? What have you been smoking? How far off your rocker can you go?

People who like to think that some smart, amoral sociopath cobbled together the Tea Party as a cunning ploy to secure his/her/their/its own ends are just stupid. They've forgotten--if they ever knew--the history of the Nazi party in Germany, or the Fascist party in Italy, or even the Bolshevik party in Russia before they came to power. They started off just like the Teahadists, and they progressed to power just like the Tea Party is doing now. And they played on middle-class fears--just like the GOP is doing now. But if it makes you feel better to pretend this is all just some play-acting the Republicans are doing in a power grab, and they'll quit when they get enough seats back in Congress, by all means, keep thinking that. I know the danger signs, and I'll be able to leave the country in plenty of time if the shiat ever gets real.

OhLawd.jpg. Shouldn't have asked.
 
2012-11-12 12:11:16 AM

Bennie Crabtree: Uchiha_Cycliste:Yeah, they do stand to gain more financially, but I feel they also share a lot of blame for the state of domestic politics. They are solely responsible for the idea that bullshiat stance that on any issue both sides deserve equal recognition. They are hurting this country my perpetuating that myth. It goes without saying that they are only in it for the money, but they are doing real damage in the meantime. As such it's a real cop-out for them to avoid the issue that they are having a real effect on politics and they can't avoid it by saying that they are an entertainment outlet.

It's all just spiralling lacunae of bullshiat I guess. And for that, Fox News is dangerous as all hell turned loose.


That bullshiat article looks really interesting, when I have a quiet hour to read, I'll look at it. It's opened now in my browser and over in my "I'll get back to it" area of tabs.
 
2012-11-12 12:13:12 AM

Ornery Alien: 1. Conservative VOTERS in Canada are mostly still left of the Republicans, but the gov't is way further right than they used to be these days.


FTFM. Not claiming Cdn gov't is way further right than U.S. Republicans. But I do believe they're well into actual-U.S.-Republican-like territory.
 
2012-11-12 12:16:01 AM
Hey HeadLever, why don't you tell us what you think the four groups (ultra wealthy, evangelicals,rural and ignorant whites) mentioned have in common? Surely you must have a brilliant explanation that is so much greater than the one posited (fear) that we will be amazed. There is no other reason you would be so scornful of such an obvious and seemingly correct answer.

go ahead, blow us away.
 
2012-11-12 12:17:33 AM
Or, you know, just continue to act like a blow-hard. Your choice, it's time to put up of shut up.
 
2012-11-12 12:18:42 AM
Nationally it's hard to believe either side could collapse give the money getting channeled to them. At most it might happen on a state level but who many states the Republicans care about are devoid of a top dog Republican to keep the rank and file in line?

/Guessing it's a pretty thin list.
 
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