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(The Raw Story)   "Four presidents in the last century have won 50 percent of the vote twice: Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Reagan, and Obama"   (rawstory.com) divider line 113
    More: Spiffy, Bill Kristol, obama, GOP  
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2448 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Nov 2012 at 3:25 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-11 04:09:42 PM  

tdpatriots12: Teddy Roosevelt was only elected once as President. His first administration was McKinley's. In the 1912 election, he split the Republican vote with Taft, and Wilson was elected. So he wouldn't have qualified for this achievement anyway.


Right. I was thinking "presidential ticket," but then we'd have to count Garner, Nixon, Bush, and Biden on the list.
 
2012-11-11 04:11:24 PM  
i'll never forgive the americans who voted bedtime for bonzo into office. i live in fear that one day a different large group of morans will vote ashton kutcher into office.
 
2012-11-11 04:12:13 PM  

St_Francis_P: Bill Kristol saying sensible things...maybe it is the End Times.


I thought I woke up in parallel universe this morning.
 
2012-11-11 04:12:53 PM  
For anyone who is curious, this is the full list of Presidents who have won over 50% of the popular vote at least twice:

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Ulysses S. Grant, William McKinley, Franklin Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, Ronald Reagan, Barack Obama
 
2012-11-11 04:15:58 PM  

Ishkur: This is the second time in recent memory that Bill Kristol has advocated something counter-intuitive to the GOP's position, which is interesting because Bill Kristol is never right about anything.

Ever.

No, seriously. I have never seen a pundit, journalist, critic or political commentator that is more habitually wrong than him. Every prediction, every claim, every assertion he makes is always wrong.



Dick Morris says hi.
 
2012-11-11 04:16:27 PM  
Ok, listen people. We have GOT to stop telling the GOP why they lost this election. While it is true that they have spent the last 8 years in a political echo chamber - making up facts willy-nilly to conform to their own world views - it isn't until recently that those in power in the GOP actually started believing their own BS. The fact is, unpleasant as they may be, they are not stupid - their base is stupid but not them. We cannot let them learn from their mistakes. So, from now on when asked your opinion on why they got totally shellacked, plead ignorance. Say something like "Gee, boss, I don't know why you lost. Your policies and ideas are brilliant. You really should have won. It must have been a glitch in the Matrix or something, Boss." Got it? We can't afford for them to learn and adapt. They are too dangerous to teach.
 
2012-11-11 04:16:28 PM  

tdpatriots12: For anyone who is curious, this is the full list of Presidents who have won over 50% of the popular vote at least twice:

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Ulysses S. Grant, William McKinley, Franklin Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, Ronald Reagan, Barack Obama


That is quite the list.
 
2012-11-11 04:17:52 PM  

tdpatriots12: For anyone who is curious, this is the full list of Presidents who have won over 50% of the popular vote at least twice:

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Ulysses S. Grant, William McKinley, Franklin Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, Ronald Reagan, Barack Obama


Not a stiff in the bunch, with the possible excepton of Grant.
 
2012-11-11 04:19:34 PM  

Ishkur: This is the second time in recent memory that Bill Kristol has advocated something counter-intuitive to the GOP's position, which is interesting because Bill Kristol is never right about anything.

Ever.

No, seriously. I have never seen a pundit, journalist, critic or political commentator that is more habitually wrong than him. Every prediction, every claim, every assertion he makes is always wrong.

I think he knows this now, so he's deliberately advocating the opposite of what he wants to happen in hopes of being wrong about it.


Blind squirrel, nut, etc.
 
2012-11-11 04:20:24 PM  

Abner Doon: Ishkur: This is the second time in recent memory that Bill Kristol has advocated something counter-intuitive to the GOP's position, which is interesting because Bill Kristol is never right about anything.

Ever.

No, seriously. I have never seen a pundit, journalist, critic or political commentator that is more habitually wrong than him. Every prediction, every claim, every assertion he makes is always wrong.

I think he knows this now, so he's deliberately advocating the opposite of what he wants to happen in hopes of being wrong about it.

But if he's doing it intentionally, maybe he'll end up being wrong about being wrong.


Ah but if he's doing it intentionally, then he's still "wrong", it's just that his opinion is still wrong rather than his stated opinion.
 
2012-11-11 04:25:32 PM  
In other news, Bill Kristol to be excommunicated.

sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-11-11 04:31:37 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: The Obama White House has announced that Butt Hurt will be fully covered under Obamacare.


So he IS trying to bankrupt our great nation! I KNEW IT!

/Wharrgarbl!
 
2012-11-11 04:33:20 PM  

St_Francis_P: Bill Kristol saying sensible things...maybe it is the End Times.

 
2012-11-11 04:34:22 PM  

Stone Meadow: quartercomma: Didn't FDR win 50% twice twice?

No...four times, which doesn't count by GOP math.

Oh wait...that IS "twice twice".


He won a majority of the popular vote in back to back elections, 3 times.
 
2012-11-11 04:36:33 PM  

MFAWG: Not a stiff in the bunch, with the possible excepton of Grant.


Lush, not a stiff.

And McKinley's not all that impressive, at this range.
 
2012-11-11 04:39:34 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: That stinking commie Eisenhower


I hear he fought a war against good conservative white people..
 
2012-11-11 04:46:08 PM  

tdpatriots12: clkeagle: Loaded Six String: Depending on which Roosevelt, Ike's probably my favorite on the list.

From the Headline: last century

Unless 2012 - 1904

Teddy Roosevelt was only elected once as President. His first administration was McKinley's. In the 1912 election, he split the Republican vote with Taft, and Wilson was elected. So he wouldn't have qualified for this achievement anyway.


That's always blown my mind, that America voted against a man as great as Teddy Roosevelt. Maybe he wasn't the godly figure then he's grown to today, but it really shows how pathetically attached we are to the two-party system.

KrispyKritter: i'll never forgive the americans who voted bedtime for bonzo into office. i live in fear that one day a different large group of morans will vote ashton kutcher into office.


I giggled at this, and then realized in advance this could happen, I apologize in advance for my generation if we do this.
 
2012-11-11 04:46:46 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Is this one of those gloating things that gets on the conservatives' nerves?


Who farking cares?
 
2012-11-11 04:50:09 PM  

tdpatriots12: For anyone who is curious, this is the full list of Presidents who have won over 50% of the popular vote at least twice:

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Ulysses S. Grant, William McKinley, Franklin Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, Ronald Reagan, Barack Obama


It is pretty tough to include the first four on that list. A large proportion of the population never had an opportunity to vote for or against them as many states had electors chosen by the state legislatures without an election. Jackson is the first where I would pay attention to the popular, with only 2 of 23 state legislatures selecting electors in his first election and 1 in the second.

Though, as he was unopposed, Washington definitely would have received over 50%.
 
2012-11-11 04:56:44 PM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: That's always blown my mind, that America voted against a man as great as Teddy Roosevelt. Maybe he wasn't the godly figure then he's grown to today, but it really shows how pathetically attached we are to the two-party system.


Well, it was more:

Republican Conservatives (Taft) vs. Republican Progressives (Roosevelt) vs. Democratic Progressives (Wilson)

While Roosevelt won more votes than Taft, the progressive wing of the Republican party died in 1912. When the GOP returned to power, it was with the "return to normalcy" conservatism that embraced the open-season capitalism of the 1890s. This is the economic policy that Obama was referring to in the third (?) debate when he said Mitt Romney wanted to return to the economic policies of the 1920s.

But yeah, Roosevelt. He was shot before a rally during the 1912 election and gave the speech anyway.
 
2012-11-11 04:57:18 PM  

Ishkur: This is the second time in recent memory that Bill Kristol has advocated something counter-intuitive to the GOP's position, which is interesting because Bill Kristol is never right about anything.

Ever.



broken clocks...
 
2012-11-11 05:09:18 PM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: tdpatriots12: clkeagle: Loaded Six String: Depending on which Roosevelt, Ike's probably my favorite on the list.

From the Headline: last century

Unless 2012 - 1904

Teddy Roosevelt was only elected once as President. His first administration was McKinley's. In the 1912 election, he split the Republican vote with Taft, and Wilson was elected. So he wouldn't have qualified for this achievement anyway.

That's always blown my mind, that America voted against a man as great as Teddy Roosevelt. Maybe he wasn't the godly figure then he's grown to today, but it really shows how pathetically attached we are to the two-party system.

KrispyKritter: i'll never forgive the americans who voted bedtime for bonzo into office. i live in fear that one day a different large group of morans will vote ashton kutcher into office.

I giggled at this, and then realized in advance this could happen, I apologize in advance for my generation if we do this.


Teddy got purged because he wasn't conservative enough.

Seriously, that's why he lost his (second?) reelection bid and why he had to run under the Bull Moose Party.


/in related news, a black man named Hussein who was raised by a single mom managed to not only run for President and win (twice), but he won with over fifty percent of the popular vote (both times) and got over 330 electoral votes out of 538 (both times)
 
2012-11-11 05:11:33 PM  

Shaggy_C: Just so we're clear, even with the "clear figurehead" of Obama in the 2012 election the House is still solidly Republican.


Despite Democrats winning the popular vote in the House elections.

Hooray for gerrymandering!!!
 
2012-11-11 05:12:31 PM  

King Something: Teddy got purged because he wasn't conservative enough.

Seriously, that's why he lost his (second?) reelection bid and why he had to run under the Bull Moose Party.


Kinda sorta. He left the Presidency to his chosen successor (Taft) who ended up being not progressive enough. Then he challenged Taft in the primary, seen as something of a betrayal to The Party, if not principles - and it caused a civil war in the GOP.

That said, the Roosevelt/Taft relationship really ought to be made into a movie or TV miniseries at some point.
 
2012-11-11 05:17:17 PM  

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Lionel Mandrake: But he's teh MOSTEST DIVISIVE PREZ EVAR!!1!

[little_girl_upskirt.gif]

NOBODY I KNOW VOTED FOR HIM!! FRAUD!!11!

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x600]


www.deviantart.com
 
2012-11-11 05:19:00 PM  

maddogdelta: I hear he fought a war against good conservative white people..


Yeah but FDR took the cake when it came to fighting wars against conservative white people.
 
2012-11-11 05:39:26 PM  

Aaron Haynes: Ishkur: This is the second time in recent memory that Bill Kristol has advocated something counter-intuitive to the GOP's position, which is interesting because Bill Kristol is never right about anything.

Ever.

No, seriously. I have never seen a pundit, journalist, critic or political commentator that is more habitually wrong than him. Every prediction, every claim, every assertion he makes is always wrong.

Dick Morris? I think he does it on purpose, though.


Yeah, Dick Morris is a good old-fashioned wingnut farmer. It's a strong growth industry.
 
2012-11-11 05:43:09 PM  

dywed88: Stone Meadow: quartercomma: Didn't FDR win 50% twice twice?

No...four times, which doesn't count by GOP math.

Oh wait...that IS "twice twice".

He won a majority of the popular vote in back to back elections, 3 times.


Which is pretty amazing, as the American public was sick and tired of the war by '44. Still, they gave him the job again before more or less taking it out on Harry Truman. Good thing for Harry we had the bomb, as I question his will to invade Japan.
 
2012-11-11 05:50:58 PM  
The only reason Clinton didn't achieve that is because of Ross Perot.
 
2012-11-11 05:54:44 PM  

theknuckler_33: The only reason Clinton didn't achieve that is because of Ross Perot.


Yeah, but that's like saying "The only reason he didn't get 50% of the vote is because not enough people voted for him."
 
2012-11-11 05:57:48 PM  
Republicans decided they wanted to be the party of rich, white males and southern racists who think Leave it Beaver is a documentary.

You made your bed now thats it burning around you don't cry.
 
2012-11-11 06:01:18 PM  
This is weirding me out...GOP talking heads are being sort of reasonable?

I hope this ushers in some kind of change in tactics from the party as a whole. These elections proved that divide and conquer does not work anymore...
 
2012-11-11 06:02:12 PM  

dywed88: Stone Meadow: quartercomma: Didn't FDR win 50% twice twice?

No...four times, which doesn't count by GOP math.

Oh wait...that IS "twice twice".

He won a majority of the popular vote in back to back elections, 3 times.


He also won three times in a row twice and four times in a row once.

And farking defeated Hitler, Imperial Japan, Republican obstructionism, and the Great Depression. From a wheelchair.

Reagan saved us from commies only a day's drive from Harlingen, TX, so he's clearly the better man in every way.
 
2012-11-11 06:04:15 PM  

dywed88: tdpatriots12: For anyone who is curious, this is the full list of Presidents who have won over 50% of the popular vote at least twice:

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Ulysses S. Grant, William McKinley, Franklin Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, Ronald Reagan, Barack Obama

It is pretty tough to include the first four on that list. A large proportion of the population never had an opportunity to vote for or against them as many states had electors chosen by the state legislatures without an election. Jackson is the first where I would pay attention to the popular, with only 2 of 23 state legislatures selecting electors in his first election and 1 in the second.

Though, as he was unopposed, Washington definitely would have received over 50%.


You're right, but I was trying to be comprehensive. We can't really compare the electoral politics of pre-Jackson to something we'd recognize today. Starting with Jackson it's still a really short list.
 
2012-11-11 06:04:43 PM  

Ishkur: This is the second time in recent memory that Bill Kristol has advocated something counter-intuitive to the GOP's position


farm6.staticflickr.com
 
2012-11-11 06:05:12 PM  

Aaron Haynes: theknuckler_33: The only reason Clinton didn't achieve that is because of Ross Perot.

Yeah, but that's like saying "The only reason he didn't get 50% of the vote is because not enough people voted for him."


Only if you want to obscure the fact that they were two elections where a statistically significant percentage of votes went to someone other than the two major candidates.
 
2012-11-11 06:06:48 PM  
"Really? The Republican Party is going to fall on its sword to defend a bunch of millionaires, half of whom voted Democratic and half of them live in Hollywood?"

Yeah, seems a bit silly, don't it?

Who said this again?

Who?

The actor?

No?

Bill "My crystal Ball is always broken" Kristol said this?

[scanners.gif]

Did Bill just learn he has inoperable brain cancer or has the 7th seal finally crumbled into dust? 

/Just asking questions.
 
2012-11-11 06:06:54 PM  

Aaron Haynes: theknuckler_33: The only reason Clinton didn't achieve that is because of Ross Perot.

Yeah, but that's like saying "The only reason he didn't get 50% of the vote is because not enough people voted for him."


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-11 06:08:39 PM  

theknuckler_33: Only if you want to obscure the fact that they were two elections where a statistically significant percentage of votes went to someone other than the two major candidates.


Would a major third party candidate had run for office at all had there been a major party candidate that had the broad appeal capable of securing greater than 50% of the vote in the first place?

Maybe, maybe not. The point isn't that there's some magical line that exists and Obama crossed it, only that there are only a few ways to measure a candidate's electoral mandate - and as flawed and open to criticism as any of them may be, securing over 50% of the popular vote (in addition to a solid electoral college victory) is about the best measurement we've got.

As Kristol said, elections have consequences, even ones where a candidate doesn't receive 50% of the vote. But Obama did, twice, and that's important.
 
2012-11-11 06:09:48 PM  
A century being 17 presidents (since 1912).

Statistically, not terribly impressive, honestly. Not all that many ran twice to begin with:

Roosevelt (elected thrice)
Truman (Two terms, but the first term he took over when Roosevelt Died, so elected once)
Johnson (Two terms, the first wasn't elected, was remainder of Kennedy's term)
Nixon (Two terms, i guess didn't win the popular vote both times if TFA is right)
Reagan (Elected twice, two terms)
Clinton (Elected Twice, two terms)
Bush 2 (Elected Twice, two terms)
Obama (Elected twice, two terms)

So "four presidents in the last century have won fifty percent of the vote" is actually "four presidents of the six that actually ran and won twice most recently also won the popular vote twice".

Nooooooot really news, there. (Yeah, yeah, I know, FARK and all that.)
 
2012-11-11 06:13:26 PM  
So if I've got two Obamas, a Reagan, three Eisenhowers, and three Roosevelts, I have....
$2,503.30
 
2012-11-11 06:16:36 PM  

tdpatriots12: theknuckler_33: Only if you want to obscure the fact that they were two elections where a statistically significant percentage of votes went to someone other than the two major candidates.

Would a major third party candidate had run for office at all had there been a major party candidate that had the broad appeal capable of securing greater than 50% of the vote in the first place?

Maybe, maybe not. The point isn't that there's some magical line that exists and Obama crossed it, only that there are only a few ways to measure a candidate's electoral mandate - and as flawed and open to criticism as any of them may be, securing over 50% of the popular vote (in addition to a solid electoral college victory) is about the best measurement we've got.

As Kristol said, elections have consequences, even ones where a candidate doesn't receive 50% of the vote. But Obama did, twice, and that's important.


I didn't actually read TFA. Hell, Clinton was just a hair shy of 50% in 1996 even with Perot getting over 8% of the national vote. He would have needed less than 30% of Perot's vote count in 1992 to get over 50%, Perot got almost 19% of the vote in '92! and Clinton STILL got 43%. By any objective measure, Clinton won in landslides in both of his elections... bigger even than Obama, so I think he is at least worthy of an "asterisk" when talking about measuring candidate electoral 'mandate'.
 
2012-11-11 06:17:34 PM  
For your argument to really have a point, you could only really discount people who never had a chance to run for a second term.

Presidents that were elected once and then defeated in re-election - or opted not to run, such as Johnson - automatically have less of an electoral mandate than Obama by comparison because they lost.
 
2012-11-11 06:23:38 PM  

Jim_Callahan: A century being 17 presidents (since 1912).

Statistically, not terribly impressive, honestly. Not all that many ran twice to begin with:

Roosevelt (elected thrice)
Truman (Two terms, but the first term he took over when Roosevelt Died, so elected once)
Johnson (Two terms, the first wasn't elected, was remainder of Kennedy's term)
Nixon (Two terms, i guess didn't win the popular vote both times if TFA is right)
Reagan (Elected twice, two terms)
Clinton (Elected Twice, two terms)
Bush 2 (Elected Twice, two terms)
Obama (Elected twice, two terms)

So "four presidents in the last century have won fifty percent of the vote" is actually "four presidents of the six that actually ran and won twice most recently also won the popular vote twice".

Nooooooot really news, there. (Yeah, yeah, I know, FARK and all that.)


Well, you left out Eisenhower, to 4 of the 7.

BTW, Reagan got 50.7% of the vote in 1980 despite a pretty historic landslide. why? third party candidate.

Also, Nixon won the popular vote, just didn't get 50% both times (because third party candidate his first win).
 
2012-11-11 06:23:47 PM  
I think his point was more about... how to put this... proving a negative? In a sense?

It's hard to argue that Obama won in some kind of close-call squeaker when you can make the statement he did about the exclusivity of the >50% x2 club and be factually correct. He doesn't have to go on to prove that this is some kind of uniquely emphatic mandate to demonstrate that you cannot pretend he didn't win convincingly. That's what I got out of it, at least.
 
2012-11-11 06:44:26 PM  

abb3w: MFAWG: Not a stiff in the bunch, with the possible excepton of Grant.

Lush, not a stiff.

And McKinley's not all that impressive, at this range.


www.igorb.com

How close do you need to be?
 
2012-11-11 07:29:36 PM  

Ishkur: I have never seen a pundit, journalist, critic or political commentator that is more habitually wrong than him.


Two words:

Aaron Haynes: Dick Morris? I think he does it on purpose, though.


Crap. Beaten to that one.
 
2012-11-11 07:32:36 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: That stinking commie Eisenhower and his damned Nazi-collectivist INTERSTATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM! DAMN HIM!


Scenario: For generations, schools were always private and only serving those who could afford them. If a negro child from the forest needed an answer to an emergency math problem, there was a very basic form available to him in the Emergency Math Hut. But he only received that one solved problem, and not the knowledge needed to prevent future math emergencies.

Some president comes along in 2008 and suggests that maybe, just maybe, that education be freely available to all citizens.

What do you think the GOP/Tea reaction would be?

ZOMG SOCIALISM INDOCTRINATION WHAAAAAAAAAARHURK
 
2012-11-11 08:19:34 PM  

tdpatriots12: For anyone who is curious, this is the full list of Presidents who have won over 50% of the popular vote at least twice:

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Ulysses S. Grant, William McKinley, Franklin Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, Ronald Reagan, Barack Obama



That is a surprisingly small list. Well, about 4 per century I guess.
 
2012-11-11 08:22:15 PM  

Thats No Moose: Ishkur: I have never seen a pundit, journalist, critic or political commentator that is more habitually wrong than him.

Two words:

Aaron Haynes: Dick Morris? I think he does it on purpose, though.

Crap. Beaten to that one.



Jim Kramer (CNBC). Whatever investment he recommends, do the opposite.
 
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