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(Politico)   Finally, a question with no end: "What's wrong with Florida?"   (politico.com) divider line 97
    More: Florida, Bush v. Gore, Charlie Crist, proposed state, Palm Beach County, absentee ballots, Sunshine State, banana republics, Miami Herald  
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3466 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Nov 2012 at 8:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-11 10:30:30 AM

dofus: Total time elapsed between parking car and leaving parking lot: about 20 minutes.

I remember thinking "Wow. Florida finally got its shiat together."


I went the Saturday before in downtown Clearwater around noon. Took about an hour. I have no farking clue why there was such a problem, the reader scans the ballot in about 3 seconds, how the fark did it take them 3 days to push the ballots through? What percentage was absentee ballots? Less than 5 % I'd guess yet we had to wait for every one of them to call the race?
 
2012-11-11 10:34:27 AM
Any answer to that question that isn't 'Rick Scott' or doesn't include 'Rick Scott' is either incomplete or wrong.

/We will accept the inclusion of Rick Scott as what is wrong with Florida, or as an example of what is wrong with Florida.
//It's not that I don't like Rick Scott.
///It's that I really don't like Rick Scott.
 
2012-11-11 10:35:07 AM

Without Fail: I voted at home and it took me over half an hour to fill out the ballot.


I looked at half of those amendment initiatives and voted no just because of the length of them. Sorry Charlie, if you need to 400 words long then obviously you're hiding all kinds of shiat in the verbiage. There's a reason Constitutional amendments are short and to the point.
 
2012-11-11 10:37:43 AM
Florida is FUBAR, no question. But keep in mind that final outcome. We're not all Teahadists down here, who worship our Reptilian Overlord in the Gov's office.

/Who has declared that he'll continue to ignore the new Federal healthcare laws.

//Much like other Southern governors who once refused to integrate schools
 
2012-11-11 10:42:56 AM

SomeAmerican: So unlike CA, TX, or NY, where you can pretty much call the election after counting 80% or so of the votes as at that point its pretty obvious where things are going (oh the Democrats won CA and NY, and the Republicans won TX? Wow, what a surprise), FL you have to get that last 20% done to be sure... and the last 20% of anything is usually 80% of the work.


California was called the instant their polls closed, with 0% reporting.
 
2012-11-11 10:44:53 AM
Oregon sends you your ballot in the mail and you have a few weeks to fill it out and put it in a drop box or mail it back. No lines, no rush, no time off work. Works like a freaking dream. Why is the rest of America is so idiotic about the process??
 
2012-11-11 10:46:16 AM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: So it turns out that when your state government is dedicated to stop you from voting, a major election becomes a logistical nightmare.


The states have proven they're unable to conduct a federal election with any consistency. Federal elections need to be taken away from the states and run by the feds. Not private for-profit companies. The feds. Uniform ballots, uniform machines, uniform policies, uniform procedures in all 50 states.
 
2012-11-11 10:47:06 AM
Another thing to remember about elections is that they are decided based on statistical projections, not by actually counting every vote.

balloot: Have you noticed that every other state was able to count the vast majority of their ballots within a few hours of the election? Yes, Florida was close, but it wasn't that close. The final result was Obama +.9%. Any other state in the country with that big of a spread would be able to certify the result within a day, or maybe two. But Florida? 5 days.

And your claim that all these people turn out in Florida simply isn't true. There are many other states with significantly higher turnout rates, many of which were also closely contested. None of these states forced people to wait 4+ hours to vote.

Holding an election and counting votes isn't rocket science. Every other state does it without consistently making fools of themselves. Florida should just throw every idiot in its elections division out on the street and start anew with people that aren't totally incompetent at their job.


One other comment... if you look at the latest NY Times election results, you'll notice that FL is not unusual in not having its full vote count in yet.

FL still hasn't counted 1% of it's votes, but enough have been counted to call the election even with the really close spread.

About half the other states out there are in that same range - 1% to 2% of votes haven't been counted yet. They were able to call quicker in part because they had a broader spread.

A couple states are being far slower than FL in counting votes. WA hasn't counted 13% of their votes yet; Montana hasn't counted 6% of theirs. But they have 14% spreads so their outcome isn't in doubt.

The bigger the spread, the smaller the % of votes you have to count before you call the election. If you are FL, with the 2nd largest number of votes and the smallest spread of any state, you have the toughest job.
 
2012-11-11 10:52:33 AM
What I want to know is, why do so many swing states have Republican-controlled administrations and legislatures. Florida, Virginia, Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, etc. They all have Republicans controlling the administration of elections and the redistricting process.

If these are all swing states (some of them with a pronounced Democratic lean) why don't Democrats control any of these states?
 
2012-11-11 10:55:15 AM

Doc Daneeka: What I want to know is, why do so many swing states have Republican-controlled administrations and legislatures. Florida, Virginia, Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, etc. They all have Republicans controlling the administration of elections and the redistricting process.

If these are all swing states (some of them with a pronounced Democratic lean) why don't Democrats control any of these states?


Long story short, it's an Urban vs. Rural battle in each of these states. 

The cities vote Dem, the suburbs and rural parts vote Republican.
 
2012-11-11 11:02:13 AM

balloot: And your claim that all these people turn out in Florida simply isn't true. There are many other states with significantly higher turnout rates, many of which were also closely contested. None of these states forced people to wait 4+ hours to vote.


Thanks for the link. I took voter turnout from your source, and compared it against how big Obama won or lost every state. Interesting thing happens when you compare Obama win % vs. voter turnout.
oi50.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-11 11:03:13 AM

phenn: I do love my state, but yeah. Florida government is bursting with ineptitude.

Particularly our reptilian asshole governor. How my fellow Floridians could have elected such a shiat stain is beyond me.


Midterm year and old people
 
2012-11-11 11:03:27 AM

Doc Daneeka: What I want to know is, why do so many swing states have Republican-controlled administrations and legislatures. Florida, Virginia, Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, etc. They all have Republicans controlling the administration of elections and the redistricting process.

If these are all swing states (some of them with a pronounced Democratic lean) why don't Democrats control any of these states?


Fiscal responsibility begins at home, then flows upwards to municipal, county and state politics. Federal deficits are someone else's problem. At the federal level voting is all about NO NEW WARS first, and vaginas second
 
2012-11-11 11:04:34 AM

SomeAmerican: balloot: Have you noticed that every other state was able to count the vast majority of their ballots within a few hours of the election? Yes, Florida was close, but it wasn't that close. The final result was Obama +.9%. Any other state in the country with that big of a spread would be able to certify the result within a day, or maybe two. But Florida? 5 days.

And your claim that all these people turn out in Florida simply isn't true. There are many other states with significantly higher turnout rates, many of which were also closely contested. None of these states forced people to wait 4+ hours to vote.

Holding an election and counting votes isn't rocket science. Every other state does it without consistently making fools of themselves. Florida should just throw every idiot in its elections division out on the street and start anew with people that aren't totally incompetent at their job.

There are states with higher turnouts, but they didn't have as close a race, no.

Florida had the closest race this year. Florida ended up being about a 0.88% spread. The next closest was Ohio, with 1.78%. Ohio had about 40% less votes to count, and a broader spread. That means Ohio had an easier job with more of a margin for error.

After that you have NC and VA with 2% and 3% spreads, but it goes to 5%+ quickly after that for the other states. And NC and VA have half the votes to tally that FL does.

Florida also had the highest absolute number of voters in every state other than California, which you can more or less check for the Democrats every year, so they've got a pretty easy job over there :)

I'm not saying that FL couldn't do better with their elections. I am saying though that FL is the hardest place to run a good election in, because of the high number of votes to count and because of the closeness of the elections in FL.


I don't know why you're so obsessed with the percentage spread. The fact that Florida had a relatively close result (and again, .9% is not all that close) has nothing to do with the fact that it took 4 hours for people to vote and many days to get the ballots counted.
 
2012-11-11 11:06:35 AM

Doc Daneeka: What I want to know is, why do so many swing states have Republican-controlled administrations and legislatures. Florida, Virginia, Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, etc. They all have Republicans controlling the administration of elections and the redistricting process.

If these are all swing states (some of them with a pronounced Democratic lean) why don't Democrats control any of these states?


Lot more red hayseed districts than blue urban districts. So while that won't help the GOP on a national vote level it rocks at the state legislature level. District after district is bright red as a result while the Dem voted is concentrated in relatively few.
 
2012-11-11 11:07:46 AM

Mrtraveler01: Doc Daneeka: What I want to know is, why do so many swing states have Republican-controlled administrations and legislatures. Florida, Virginia, Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, etc. They all have Republicans controlling the administration of elections and the redistricting process.

If these are all swing states (some of them with a pronounced Democratic lean) why don't Democrats control any of these states?

Long story short, it's an Urban vs. Rural battle in each of these states. 

The cities vote Dem, the suburbs and rural parts vote Republican.


I know that. But if there are enough people in the cities to vote Democrats into the White House and the US Senate every four years, there should be enough to vote Democrats into the governor's mansion and the state legislature.
 
2012-11-11 11:12:18 AM
I voted in MD- we got mailed a example ballot before the election. Most of the people I saw at the polls had theirs with them, all filled out. I waited 2.5 hours to vote (early voting). My parents waited a half hour (they went halloween night). Most everyone I talked to was reporting an hour+ wait. The only person I know who didn't have to wait was my boss because he went on an off hour (took time off work).

The voters did everything they were supposed to do, and the lines were still long. Anything more than a 15 minute wait is too long. We need more election machines, and more early voting days.
 
2012-11-11 11:16:25 AM

Katie98_KT: I voted in MD- we got mailed a example ballot before the election. Most of the people I saw at the polls had theirs with them, all filled out. I waited 2.5 hours to vote (early voting). My parents waited a half hour (they went halloween night). Most everyone I talked to was reporting an hour+ wait. The only person I know who didn't have to wait was my boss because he went on an off hour (took time off work).

The voters did everything they were supposed to do, and the lines were still long. Anything more than a 15 minute wait is too long. We need more election machines, and more early voting days.


I spent about 90 minutes in line, and that was during normal work hours. The line for same day registration was out the door, and it was about 35 degrees and raining. I saw several people get out of line and leave. I know I posted this upthread, but I changed the key a little to make more sense. Don't ever think that these long lines, hoops to jump through, etc will stop if the GOP has anything to say about it.

oi45.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-11 11:27:16 AM
So is there any way we can use Kansas to fix Florida? Or vice versa?

/we can't make them worse...
 
2012-11-11 11:31:50 AM

Serious Black: I think the better question is "What's right with Florida?" Unfortunately, I don't think that question has an answer.


I've lived in California, Connecticut, Illinois and Florida.

Florida offers the best overall quality of life by far.
 
2012-11-11 11:33:00 AM

Katie98_KT: I voted in MD- we got mailed a example ballot before the election. Most of the people I saw at the polls had theirs with them, all filled out. I waited 2.5 hours to vote (early voting). My parents waited a half hour (they went halloween night). Most everyone I talked to was reporting an hour+ wait. The only person I know who didn't have to wait was my boss because he went on an off hour (took time off work).

The voters did everything they were supposed to do, and the lines were still long. Anything more than a 15 minute wait is too long. We need more election machines, and more early voting days.


Presidential election day should be a national holiday. It's important enough that we can all take a day off work once every four years to pick our leader for the next four years.
Of course I also believe that we should have a law that no results can be published until all states are done voting. At least let people have a chance to vote before they learn their vote didn't/doesn't matter.
Finally, can we please get rid of the electoral college? The president of the United States should be chosen by simple majority vote. I'm a classic Republican voting Fark Independent, but I think that Al Gore should have been our president in the year 2000 because he got more votes than GW Bush. No one's vote should ever count more than anyone else.

/own a small business
//gladly let my employee go vote in the middle of the day (with pay)
 
2012-11-11 11:35:43 AM
I live in Washington, where days after the election we still have 15pct of the ballots to count or so.

So I think I'll not point fingers at other states too much.
 
2012-11-11 11:41:03 AM

Tad_Waxpole: Serious Black: I think the better question is "What's right with Florida?" Unfortunately, I don't think that question has an answer.

I've lived in California, Connecticut, Illinois and Florida.

Florida offers the best overall quality of life by far.


Depends.

What part of Florida are we talking about?
 
2012-11-11 11:42:47 AM

Doc Daneeka: I know that. But if there are enough people in the cities to vote Democrats into the White House and the US Senate every four years, there should be enough to vote Democrats into the governor's mansion and the state legislature.


Cliché but the whole politics is local thing is what drives it at the governor level. I'm in Missouri (god help me) and we just overwhelmingly gave our Dem governor a second term while Romney won the state by like 10%. He won in the first place because he was a hugely popular state AG. The party to which he belongs is almost irrelevant.

There's also the fact state parties may have almost nothing in common with the national party. Look at many Northeast Republicans or Plains State Democrats.
 
2012-11-11 11:45:54 AM

Shrugging Atlas: Doc Daneeka: I know that. But if there are enough people in the cities to vote Democrats into the White House and the US Senate every four years, there should be enough to vote Democrats into the governor's mansion and the state legislature.

Cliché but the whole politics is local thing is what drives it at the governor level. I'm in Missouri (god help me) and we just overwhelmingly gave our Dem governor a second term while Romney won the state by like 10%. He won in the first place because he was a hugely popular state AG. The party to which he belongs is almost irrelevant.

There's also the fact state parties may have almost nothing in common with the national party. Look at many Northeast Republicans or Plains State Democrats.


Jay Nixon may be a Democrat here, but he would definately be a Republican in the Northeast.

And the people who do run on the Republican ticket in this state (Spence, Martin, etc.)...shudder. 

We definitely dodged a bullet on a state level this election.
 
2012-11-11 11:53:07 AM

Katie98_KT: I voted in MD- we got mailed a example ballot before the election. Most of the people I saw at the polls had theirs with them, all filled out. I waited 2.5 hours to vote (early voting). My parents waited a half hour (they went halloween night). Most everyone I talked to was reporting an hour+ wait. The only person I know who didn't have to wait was my boss because he went on an off hour (took time off work).

The voters did everything they were supposed to do, and the lines were still long. Anything more than a 15 minute wait is too long. We need more election machines, and more early voting days.


I voted in CP on election day and waited an hour, but it seems like the entire student body at UMD waited for election day (of course, voting is apparently a valid reason to skip class so...)
 
2012-11-11 11:55:11 AM
 
2012-11-11 11:58:06 AM

Without Fail: that made it very difficult for unprepared voters to vote


I live in michigan (5 county and 6 state proposals) and I spent all of one hour that week putting together a cheat sheet.

I don't disagree with your post, but I do think we should all piss on these ignorant douchebags until they can take the country seriously enough to tell piss from rain. You've got the internet (public library if nothing else) and it doesn't take much time to figure out what is on the ballot and come prepared.
 
2012-11-11 11:59:27 AM

Mrtraveler01: Jay Nixon may be a Democrat here, but he would definately be a Republican in the Northeast.

And the people who do run on the Republican ticket in this state (Spence, Martin, etc.)...shudder.

We definitely dodged a bullet on a state level this election.


Indeed we did.

As for Nixon, I bet he runs for Blunt's Senate seat in 4 years with a good shot at winning. Nixon is oddly popular (enough) in the rural areas of Missouri.
 
2012-11-11 12:12:57 PM
I believe the problem with Florida is the fact that it consists largely of snowbird transplants. It's the same problem with the tourists; even outside the parks, tourists will still throw trash around everywhere because 'someone else will handle it'. There's no concern for the local environment. . Similarly, snowbirds tend to have no respect for local infrastructure, balking at paying taxes for schools, etc. 'I don't have any kids in this school. I don't use this hospital. Get rid of all that stuff. Why am I paying taxes for it?' This is a completely different worldview than someone who sees their location as 'home'.
 
2012-11-11 12:16:58 PM

Mrtraveler01: Depends.

What part of Florida are we talking about?




Depends are widely used throughout Florida.
 
2012-11-11 12:17:18 PM

bubbadave1056: Twelve constitutional amendments on the ballot just compounded the delays, and I think that's what the legislature intended.


We had 10 on the California ballot this year. The wife & I were in & out of our polling place in under 10 mins. Florida needs to get its shiat together.
 
2012-11-11 12:18:45 PM

Sim Tree: I believe the problem with Florida is the fact that it consists largely of snowbird transplants. It's the same problem with the tourists; even outside the parks, tourists will still throw trash around everywhere because 'someone else will handle it'. There's no concern for the local environment. . Similarly, snowbirds tend to have no respect for local infrastructure, balking at paying taxes for schools, etc. 'I don't have any kids in this school. I don't use this hospital. Get rid of all that stuff. Why am I paying taxes for it?' This is a completely different worldview than someone who sees their location as 'home'.


And then they biatch when the kid behind the cash register can't make change without pictures of which coins he should give back.
 
2012-11-11 12:25:19 PM
Answer: It's chock full of retards & racists and they have Lex Luthor as it's Governor.
 
2012-11-11 12:29:53 PM

A bit dissappointed that I'm in before....

All the nuts roll downhill.
 
2012-11-11 12:53:10 PM

TV's Vinnie: Answer: It's chock full of retards & racists and they have Lex Luthor as it's Governor.


Dude - that is an incredibly nasty thing to say. Lex Luthor is WAY more charismatic.
 
2012-11-11 01:00:38 PM
I believe the answer is R) All of the above.
 
2012-11-11 01:16:29 PM

Nofun: We tried electronic ballots: which are way more accurate and less prone to errors, easier to understand, and easier to verify. Of course, that all got shot down thanks to a certain overly-vocal demographic with nothing better to do and too much fear of anything new...

[dorkshelf.com image 320x313]


To be honest, I see absolutely no reason why voting shouldn't be done in a redundant "electronic + papertrail" fashion, with confirmation of both by the voter, with machines manufactured by transparent quasi-government agency. Voting is arguably the most important thing you can do, the fact that it's still done so haphazardly is mind-boggling.

/I am not saying or implying that voter fraud is a problem
 
2012-11-11 01:20:50 PM
There's something in the water...
 
2012-11-11 02:07:38 PM
Florida is essentially a southern state that would be deep red if it weren't for the large percentage of population made up of Latinos and transplanted blue-staters. This brings the state from solid red to 50-50, ensuring a close election each time. Now comound that with stupid ballot design and you have contemporary Florida.

/Lived in Florida during the 2000 election
//Now living in PA.
 
2012-11-11 02:22:15 PM
I partly blame the crazy real estate cycles. Crazy good, crazy bad....but just plain crazy.

Bad enough where the population growth is mostly stagnant.
 
2012-11-11 02:56:06 PM

little miss: I'm going to guess you voted in a predominantly white district? The long lines and queues were reported as concentrated in areas with minority voters. It seems an odd outside possibility that black people take longer to vote, but that's not necessarily true.

I voted in a predominantly white district and lines on election day ranged from 5-7 hours.


This.

The problem isn't a statewide problem. Some larger counties managed to have things run smoothly. Four or five of them failed miserably because of decisions taken by their county's locally elected Supervisor of Elections. They'll blame it on lack of early voting, funding, Republicans, and any other reason they can come up with when in reality it's 90% their own fault.

Link
 
2012-11-11 03:41:22 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: balloot: And your claim that all these people turn out in Florida simply isn't true. There are many other states with significantly higher turnout rates, many of which were also closely contested. None of these states forced people to wait 4+ hours to vote.

Thanks for the link. I took voter turnout from your source, and compared it against how big Obama won or lost every state. Interesting thing happens when you compare Obama win % vs. voter turnout.
[oi50.tinypic.com image 618x452]


Aw jeez I was told there wouldn't be any math............
 
2012-11-11 03:43:36 PM

Space_Poet: Without Fail: I voted at home and it took me over half an hour to fill out the ballot.

I looked at half of those amendment initiatives and voted no just because of the length of them. Sorry Charlie, if you need to 400 words long then obviously you're hiding all kinds of shiat in the verbiage. There's a reason Constitutional amendments are short and to the point.


One thing I like to do each election is go to my county's democratic and republican party websites and see what both say about each of the ballot initiatives. It's like getting the Cliff's notes version from both sides. I order a mail-in ballot as soon as I am able and fill it out with a nice glass of wine and some tunes on the stereo, then mail it about five days before Election Day. Beats the hell out of standing in line.
 
2012-11-11 03:44:35 PM

MFAWG: I live in Washington, where days after the election we still have 15pct of the ballots to count or so.

So I think I'll not point fingers at other states too much.


A big part of that is vote by mail, which means you have a ton of ballots that are still in the mail says after election day. The system doesn't give you instant results, but being able to fill in the ballots at home and mail them instead of standing in line for 8 hours makes up for having to wait days to find out who won the governorship.
 
2012-11-11 11:30:20 PM
You mean other than the retirees who don't care about anything other than tax cuts and early bird specials and are too cheap to pay for voting machines or decent schools?
 
2012-11-12 12:31:15 AM
Politically? well 2 bad election problems. first was a corrupt system trying to make someone president, doing everything they can to disqualify votes(hanging chads) The 2nd problem was and overwhelming amount of mail in ballots after voting day, and republicans restricting voter days before, as well as making it as hard as possible to vote(less machines in democratic areas, etc...)

As a whole? Floridians are no nuttier than anyone else. It's like people who see the number 11 everywhere. If your looking for it, you'll find it all over the place. Unfortunately farkers have been trained to look for it and to make a link, as it'll always get you a greenlight.

lived in 4 states. Equal stupid people doing stupid things in each one. Never noticed it n florida as being worse, until farks florida tag.
 
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