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(Politico)   Finally, a question with no end: "What's wrong with Florida?"   (politico.com) divider line 97
    More: Florida, Bush v. Gore, Charlie Crist, proposed state, Palm Beach County, absentee ballots, Sunshine State, banana republics, Miami Herald  
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3466 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Nov 2012 at 8:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-10 11:58:00 PM
We tried electronic ballots: which are way more accurate and less prone to errors, easier to understand, and easier to verify. Of course, that all got shot down thanks to a certain overly-vocal demographic with nothing better to do and too much fear of anything new...

dorkshelf.com
 
2012-11-11 07:17:02 AM
This is a question that transcends politics.
 
2012-11-11 08:06:44 AM
It's cursed by the ghost of Ponce de León!!!!
 
2012-11-11 08:08:00 AM
I think the better question is "What's right with Florida?" Unfortunately, I don't think that question has an answer.
 
2012-11-11 08:12:44 AM
Well for one thing, they drive Cadillacs and wear baggy sweatpants and Reeboks with the straps.
 
2012-11-11 08:13:18 AM

Serious Black: I think the better question is "What's right with Florida?" Unfortunately, I don't think that question has an answer.


Hey now!

/They make really good OJ........
 
2012-11-11 08:14:20 AM

G.I.R.B.: Serious Black: I think the better question is "What's right with Florida?" Unfortunately, I don't think that question has an answer.

Hey now!

/They make really good OJ........


//Pass the vodak

(preview is my friend)
 
2012-11-11 08:18:56 AM
Jews. :D
 
2012-11-11 08:20:17 AM
I do love my state, but yeah. Florida government is bursting with ineptitude.

Particularly our reptilian asshole governor. How my fellow Floridians could have elected such a shiat stain is beyond me.
 
2012-11-11 08:21:17 AM

Nofun: We tried electronic ballots: which are way more accurate and less prone to errors, easier to understand, and easier to verify.


...and much easier to alter in subtle ways.

I would have no problems if the electronic voting machine was simply used as a "form filler". That is, you select your candidates on the voting machine (which has physical buttons on the side of the screen; none of this BS touchscreen stuff), it displays your result in the screen for your confirmation. After you verify it, it then it prints out the filled ballot on a piece of paper. You take the paper ballot to the optical scanning machine, which actually tabulates the ballot.

Thus, you have the advantages of the electronic machines (ease of voting, different languages, etc.), the advantages of optical scan ballots (paper trail, accurate, quick counting with the scanning machine, and easy verification by hand), and people can still submit paper ballots if they wish to avoid the electronic machines entirely.
 
2012-11-11 08:22:54 AM
Can we sell Florida back to Spain yet?
 
2012-11-11 08:23:03 AM
What went wrong? How about record turnout that overwhelmed the polls. Add to the mix a constant influx of Northern retirees that can't wait to vote themselves more goodies and I think you'll have found 99.94% of the problem
 
2012-11-11 08:24:57 AM
Our Supervisor of elections went on TV and cried. So that makes it all better, right?

/still pissed about the lines
 
2012-11-11 08:25:44 AM
Meh, I'm just glad we voted the right way. It wasn't close enough to trigger a recount, so even if the election had come down to us, it wouldn't have been 2000 all over again.
 
2012-11-11 08:29:37 AM
I get it - if my wang turned blue I'd be worried too.
 
2012-11-11 08:30:19 AM
I love this quote FTA: "The Florida voter is a great voter," Iorio said. "They clearly want to participate. How many people would wait in an eight-hour line after the presidency had already been declared for President Obama? They still waited."

I would argue the opposite. Not for who they elected this time or how long they waited (which was admirable), but for the constant stream of idiots they elect to state office that control the voting process. They get smacked down for screwing up elections, then install another idiot in their place. When one state official displays some common sense like Crist did, they get put in place another whack job.

Florida will be the butt of jokes until the FL electorate decides to start acting like people who aren't using the voting booth to sneak a pull on a crack pipe. Until then, they will be fodder for insults by the rest of the country. And deservedly so.
 
2012-11-11 08:31:04 AM
As a Floriduh resident, (my first presidential election here), I assumed the polls would be awfully organized, so I mailed in my ballot. Ironically, it appears the vast amounts of mail in ballots were partially at fault for overwhelming the system.

Only Florida...Only Florida
 
2012-11-11 08:34:18 AM

StrikitRich: What went wrong? How about record turnout that overwhelmed the polls. Add to the mix a constant influx of Northern retirees that can't wait to vote themselves more goodies and I think you'll have found 99.94% of the problem


Would you like to vote Republican, Democratic, or Free Halloween Candy Party?
 
2012-11-11 08:37:21 AM

homelessdude: Not for who they elected this time or how long they waited (which was admirable), but for the constant stream of idiots they elect to state office that control the voting process. They get smacked down for screwing up elections, then install another idiot in their place. When one state official displays some common sense like Crist did, they get put in place another whack job


Competence has a liberal bias.
 
2012-11-11 08:40:49 AM
I live in Pasco County. I received a sample ballot in the mail well before the election. I filled in the spots at home in front of the computer so I could research what I was voting for. I went to the early voting place part way through the early voting period. Showed them my driver's license with it's magnetic strip on the back. They stuck it in a machine that validated my right to vote in that precinct and gave me a slip of paper. I took that 3 feet to the next person who exchanged it for a ballot that exactly matched the sample. Went to a booth and transferred all the spots. Stuffed the ballot in a scanner that verified one spot per question and dumped in a locked box.

I suppose someone took the locked boxes to some place where another scanner that did the actual counting.

Total time elapsed between parking car and leaving parking lot: about 20 minutes.

I remember thinking "Wow. Florida finally got its shiat together."
 
2012-11-11 08:41:49 AM

Serious Black: I think the better question is "What's right with Florida?" Unfortunately, I don't think that question has an answer.


And eat frozen yogurt at the Mall foodcourt.
 
2012-11-11 08:42:52 AM

dofus: I live in Pasco County. I received a sample ballot in the mail well before the election. I filled in the spots at home in front of the computer so I could research what I was voting for. I went to the early voting place part way through the early voting period. Showed them my driver's license with it's magnetic strip on the back. They stuck it in a machine that validated my right to vote in that precinct and gave me a slip of paper. I took that 3 feet to the next person who exchanged it for a ballot that exactly matched the sample. Went to a booth and transferred all the spots. Stuffed the ballot in a scanner that verified one spot per question and dumped in a locked box.

I suppose someone took the locked boxes to some place where another scanner that did the actual counting.

Total time elapsed between parking car and leaving parking lot: about 20 minutes.

I remember thinking "Wow. Florida finally got its shiat together."


I'm going to guess you voted in a predominantly white district? The long lines and queues were reported as concentrated in areas with minority voters. It seems an odd outside possibility that black people take longer to vote, but that's not necessarily true.
 
2012-11-11 08:45:25 AM

phenn: I do love my state, but yeah. Florida government is bursting with ineptitude.

Particularly our reptilian asshole governor. How my fellow Floridians could have elected such a shiat stain is beyond me.


It's not like they're actually FROM here. And they live in communities that don't even have schools, so why should they pay for schools? Or anything at all?
 
2012-11-11 08:47:54 AM

homelessdude: I love this quote FTA: "The Florida voter is a great voter," Iorio said. "They clearly want to participate. How many people would wait in an eight-hour line after the presidency had already been declared for President Obama? They still waited."

I would argue the opposite. Not for who they elected this time or how long they waited (which was admirable), but for the constant stream of idiots they elect to state office that control the voting process. They get smacked down for screwing up elections, then install another idiot in their place. When one state official displays some common sense like Crist did, they get put in place another whack job.

Florida will be the butt of jokes until the FL electorate decides to start acting like people who aren't using the voting booth to sneak a pull on a crack pipe. Until then, they will be fodder for insults by the rest of the country. And deservedly so.


Crist ate his own gun after going on numerous Sunday morning shows stating that he was Republican to the core, then jumped ship when he didn't win the primary. No amount of John Morgan's money will repair that damage.
 
2012-11-11 08:51:22 AM

dofus: I live in Pasco County. I received a sample ballot in the mail well before the election. I filled in the spots at home in front of the computer so I could research what I was voting for. I went to the early voting place part way through the early voting period. Showed them my driver's license with it's magnetic strip on the back. They stuck it in a machine that validated my right to vote in that precinct and gave me a slip of paper. I took that 3 feet to the next person who exchanged it for a ballot that exactly matched the sample. Went to a booth and transferred all the spots. Stuffed the ballot in a scanner that verified one spot per question and dumped in a locked box.

I suppose someone took the locked boxes to some place where another scanner that did the actual counting.

Total time elapsed between parking car and leaving parking lot: about 20 minutes.

I remember thinking "Wow. Florida finally got its shiat together."


It would be awesome if, instead of a confirmaton screen, the voting machine dispensed a small handful of Mike and Ikes.

Did you see where St Pete Beach voted to get rid of their police department? Good farking riddance. Maybe we'll finally get some tourists back in the area.
 
2012-11-11 08:52:08 AM
Old Republicans from NY
Next question
 
2012-11-11 08:57:21 AM
Disgusting people!
 
2012-11-11 08:58:23 AM

TalenLee: dofus: I live in Pasco County. I received a sample ballot in the mail well before the election. I filled in the spots at home in front of the computer so I could research what I was voting for. I went to the early voting place part way through the early voting period. Showed them my driver's license with it's magnetic strip on the back. They stuck it in a machine that validated my right to vote in that precinct and gave me a slip of paper. I took that 3 feet to the next person who exchanged it for a ballot that exactly matched the sample. Went to a booth and transferred all the spots. Stuffed the ballot in a scanner that verified one spot per question and dumped in a locked box.

I suppose someone took the locked boxes to some place where another scanner that did the actual counting.

Total time elapsed between parking car and leaving parking lot: about 20 minutes.

I remember thinking "Wow. Florida finally got its shiat together."

I'm going to guess you voted in a predominantly white district? The long lines and queues were reported as concentrated in areas with minority voters. It seems an odd outside possibility that black people take longer to vote, but that's not necessarily true.


Black people vote... like this.
But WHITE people, they vote like THIS!
 
2012-11-11 09:01:26 AM
Answer: It's full of old baby boomers who don't have to work for a living.
 
2012-11-11 09:03:53 AM
I'm going to guess you voted in a predominantly white district? The long lines and queues were reported as concentrated in areas with minority voters. It seems an odd outside possibility that black people take longer to vote, but that's not necessarily true.

I voted in a predominantly white district and lines on election day ranged from 5-7 hours.
 
2012-11-11 09:10:16 AM
Twelve constitutional amendments on the ballot just compounded the delays, and I think that's what the legislature intended.
 
2012-11-11 09:12:17 AM
It's the limp dick of America, that's what's wrong with it.
/And it's smelly, too.
 
2012-11-11 09:13:06 AM
I believe the core problem comes down to this.

Florida voters vote, in droves. More people voted in Florida than in NY or TX, and almost as many people as CA. And unlike NY, TX, and CA, Florida voters vote unpredictably. It's a state full of independents. At one point ABC noted that Obama was leading Florida... by 300 votes of the ~ 4 million votes counted.

So unlike CA, TX, or NY, where you can pretty much call the election after counting 80% or so of the votes as at that point its pretty obvious where things are going (oh the Democrats won CA and NY, and the Republicans won TX? Wow, what a surprise), FL you have to get that last 20% done to be sure... and the last 20% of anything is usually 80% of the work.

Florida could do a better job running elections, sure, but we are also the state that it is hardest to hold an election in.
 
2012-11-11 09:23:23 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Answer: It's full of old baby boomers who don't have to work for a living.


Well, old people do vote a lot. But you would think that a state that had high numbers of potential voters would take steps to improve their voting process, rather than try to make it harder,
Maybe I'm just being naive.
 
2012-11-11 09:29:17 AM
Crony Capitalism is what's wrong with Florida. Companies/the wealthy own its State Government. Democracy fading fast.

also, when Big Business owns all the news networks, the news isn't quite the news anymore.

you can't have a Democratic Republic if the citizens aren't getting the actual news.
 
2012-11-11 09:30:58 AM

phenn: I do love my state, but yeah. Florida government is bursting with ineptitude.

Particularly our reptilian asshole governor. How my fellow Floridians could have elected such a shiat stain is beyond me.



Florida is what happens when big business and the wealthy are allowed to take over the government and are allowed to own all the news networks that the people get their "news" from.
 
2012-11-11 09:31:43 AM
well, at least Florida does some things well: drugs.
 
2012-11-11 09:31:58 AM

bubbadave1056: Twelve constitutional amendments on the ballot just compounded the delays, and I think that's what the legislature intended.


I would hope people would research before heading to the polls. Then again, you never know.
 
2012-11-11 09:33:12 AM

Linux_Yes: phenn: I do love my state, but yeah. Florida government is bursting with ineptitude.

Particularly our reptilian asshole governor. How my fellow Floridians could have elected such a shiat stain is beyond me.


Florida is what happens when big business and the wealthy are allowed to take over the government and are allowed to own all the news networks that the people get their "news" from.


You ain't just spitting grits, partner. What a shiathouse mess it turned into (quickly).
 
2012-11-11 09:33:33 AM
Global warming and the resulting sea level rise will take care of Florida. don't know how long that will take, but its probably unavoidable now.


get ready for Floridians to move north.
 
2012-11-11 09:38:17 AM
This year, the major problems were:

1. Governor Rick Scott shortened early voting from 14 to 8 days.

2. The ballot had 11 constitutional amendments, all proposed by the state legislature, that made it very difficult for unprepared voters to vote quickly.

Here is the first one:

CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT
ARTICLE I, SECTION 28

HEALTH CARE SERVICES
.-Proposing an amendment to the State Constitution to prohibit laws or rules from compelling any person or employer to purchase, obtain, or otherwise provide for health care coverage; permit a person or an employer to purchase lawful health care services directly from a health care provider; permit a health care provider to accept direct payment from a person or an employer for lawful health care services; exempt persons, employers, and health care providers from penalties and taxes for paying directly or accepting direct payment for lawful health care services; and prohibit laws or rules from abolishing the private market for health care coverage of any lawful health care service. Specifies that the amendment does not affect which health care services a health care provider is required to perform or provide; affect which health care services are permitted by law; prohibit care provided pursuant to general law relating to workers' compensation; affect laws or rules in effect as of March 1, 2010; affect the terms or conditions of any health care system to the extent that those terms and conditions do not have the effect of punishing a person or an employer for paying directly for lawful health care services or a health care provider for accepting direct payment from a person or an employer for lawful health care services; or affect any general law passed by two-thirds vote of the membership of each house of the Legislature, passed after the effective date of the amendment, provided such law states with specificity the public necessity justifying the exceptions from the provisions of the amendment. The amendment expressly provides that it may not be construed to prohibit negotiated provisions in insurance contracts, network agreements, or other provider agreements contractually limiting copayments, coinsurance, deductibles, or other patient charges.


It says that Obama-care doesn't apply in Florida. It had no chance of being enforced and was not passed.
Several were longer than this one, and all were unnecessary. Eight of the 11 were defeated.

I voted at home and it took me over half an hour to fill out the ballot. It was like taking an SAT.

I believe that both of these issues were deliberately designed by Florida's Republican legislature to suppress voting.
 
2012-11-11 09:40:32 AM
My first thought was "a lot."
 
2012-11-11 09:49:02 AM
Unless it's death metal, retirees, golf or strippers-turn-porn-stars then it is't something which Florida is equipped to handle.

And until they can pull it together they shouldn't get to sit at the adults table any longer.

I say we reward Puerto Rico and punish Florida for a bit. Let the two of them swap.
 
2012-11-11 09:57:19 AM
"You can't have a mess like this without several contributing factors," Crist said, adding that the shortening of early voting "has no logic to it, except that you want to suppress voting."

Just leaving this here.
 
2012-11-11 10:02:18 AM

SomeAmerican: I believe the core problem comes down to this.

Florida voters vote, in droves. More people voted in Florida than in NY or TX, and almost as many people as CA. And unlike NY, TX, and CA, Florida voters vote unpredictably. It's a state full of independents meth heads, racists and idiots. At one point ABC noted that Obama was leading Florida... by 300 votes of the ~ 4 million votes counted.

So unlike CA, TX, or NY, where you can pretty much call the election after counting 80% or so of the votes as at that point its pretty obvious where things are going (oh the Democrats won CA and NY, and the Republicans won TX? Wow, what a surprise), FL you have to get that last 20% done to be sure... and the last 20% of anything is usually 80% of the work.

Florida could do a better job running elections, sure, but we are also the state that it is hardest to hold an election in.


FTFY. I hated living in Florida. Never understood the appeal. Never regretted moving out. If it wasn't for the SE coast and Tampa/St. Pete, that state would be overrun with Teatards by now.
 
2012-11-11 10:11:18 AM

StrikitRich: Crist ate his own gun after going on numerous Sunday morning shows stating that he was Republican to the core, then jumped ship when he didn't win the primary. No amount of John Morgan's money will repair that damage.


Yeah, I agree with ya. Crist is far from the level voice of reason. He had a brief flirtation with sanity when he allowed voting to remain open that one time, but shook it off pretty well.
 
2012-11-11 10:15:12 AM

SomeAmerican: I believe the core problem comes down to this.

Florida voters vote, in droves. More people voted in Florida than in NY or TX, and almost as many people as CA. And unlike NY, TX, and CA, Florida voters vote unpredictably. It's a state full of independents. At one point ABC noted that Obama was leading Florida... by 300 votes of the ~ 4 million votes counted.

So unlike CA, TX, or NY, where you can pretty much call the election after counting 80% or so of the votes as at that point its pretty obvious where things are going (oh the Democrats won CA and NY, and the Republicans won TX? Wow, what a surprise), FL you have to get that last 20% done to be sure... and the last 20% of anything is usually 80% of the work.

Florida could do a better job running elections, sure, but we are also the state that it is hardest to hold an election in.


----------------------------

Have you noticed that every other state was able to count the vast majority of their ballots within a few hours of the election? Yes, Florida was close, but it wasn't that close. The final result was Obama +.9%. Any other state in the country with that big of a spread would be able to certify the result within a day, or maybe two. But Florida? 5 days.

And your claim that all these people turn out in Florida simply isn't true. There are many other states with significantly higher turnout rates, many of which were also closely contested. None of these states forced people to wait 4+ hours to vote.

Holding an election and counting votes isn't rocket science. Every other state does it without consistently making fools of themselves. Florida should just throw every idiot in its elections division out on the street and start anew with people that aren't totally incompetent at their job.
 
2012-11-11 10:20:25 AM

StrikitRich: What went wrong? How about record turnout that overwhelmed the polls. Add to the mix a constant influx of Northern retirees that can't wait to vote themselves more goodies and I think you'll have found 99.94% of the problem


encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
I'm ollllld... Gimme, Gimme, Gimme

/I know it's been used in this thread already
//too lazy to pick a new one
 
2012-11-11 10:25:43 AM
So it turns out that when your state government is dedicated to stop you from voting, a major election becomes a logistical nightmare.
 
2012-11-11 10:29:45 AM

balloot: Have you noticed that every other state was able to count the vast majority of their ballots within a few hours of the election? Yes, Florida was close, but it wasn't that close. The final result was Obama +.9%. Any other state in the country with that big of a spread would be able to certify the result within a day, or maybe two. But Florida? 5 days.

And your claim that all these people turn out in Florida simply isn't true. There are many other states with significantly higher turnout rates, many of which were also closely contested. None of these states forced people to wait 4+ hours to vote.

Holding an election and counting votes isn't rocket science. Every other state does it without consistently making fools of themselves. Florida should just throw every idiot in its elections division out on the street and start anew with people that aren't totally incompetent at their job.


There are states with higher turnouts, but they didn't have as close a race, no.

Florida had the closest race this year. Florida ended up being about a 0.88% spread. The next closest was Ohio, with 1.78%. Ohio had about 40% less votes to count, and a broader spread. That means Ohio had an easier job with more of a margin for error.

After that you have NC and VA with 2% and 3% spreads, but it goes to 5%+ quickly after that for the other states. And NC and VA have half the votes to tally that FL does.

Florida also had the highest absolute number of voters in every state other than California, which you can more or less check for the Democrats every year, so they've got a pretty easy job over there :)

I'm not saying that FL couldn't do better with their elections. I am saying though that FL is the hardest place to run a good election in, because of the high number of votes to count and because of the closeness of the elections in FL.
 
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