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(Daily Mail)   Not News: Two cute teens fall in love. Fark: They were both born the opposite sex (w/pics)   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 401
    More: Sappy, sex-change operations, sex steroid, recitations, Katie Hill  
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32477 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Nov 2012 at 2:31 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-11 12:07:32 PM  

cycle23: DrPainMD: Darth_Lukecash: Yeah...but... Okay I'm really confused.

So transgender really means you think you're born the wrong sex... But how do you know that you're not just gay?

I mean its great they found eachother...but wouldn't they just feel that way anyhow being their own sex?

It's the only delusion supported by the medical community. If you think that you're Napoleon, they lock you in a rubber room, but if you think you're the opposite sex, they encourage you to run with it, and anybody who points out that it's just a delusion is ridiculed and labeled "hater" or "phobic." It's the modern version of "The Emperor's New Clothes."

Since it is supported by "the medical community", perhaps your definintion of the word "delusional" is not the medical definition.


There's no question that it's a delusion. You don't need to be a shrink to figure that out.
 
2012-11-11 12:08:24 PM  

ciberido: DrPainMD: dopekitty74: So right now, both have girlparts down below?

I understand that the surgery to add boy parts is pretty gnarly (not in a good way) but doesn't this technically make them a lesbian couple?

No, one has girlparts and the other has mutilated boyparts. And, they're a straight couple... always will be.

It's interesting how much this bothers you. You really, really seem intimidated by transsexuals.


What makes you think that it bothers me at all. For the record: it doesn't bother me in the slightest.
 
2012-11-11 12:09:36 PM  
Fark just keeps giving and giving to me this week. My current employer is very...shall we say, interesting and socially very liberal - if any Farkers are on here that recall my "peanut lady" posting on Friday, will in fact probably get this. Had a coworker who was born a guy, changed to the correct sex earlier this year. I was on my way to a meeting which included him and came around the corner on a Monday morning and saw a very pretty young woman in his place. I said without fully thinking, "good morning, Bob." and was promptly and politely introduced to Sally. Love Sally to death, great gal,and fabulous taste in shoes and perfume. But quite a shock on a Monday morning when I hadn't had my coffee just yet. Good on 'em, this young couple certainly looks good together in photos and they appear to love each other, I wish them all the best blessings the universe has to offer and may their union be peaceful and wonderful.
 
2012-11-11 12:11:24 PM  

cycle23: DrPainMD: The Jami Turman Fan Club: DrPainMD: dopekitty74: So right now, both have girlparts down below?

I understand that the surgery to add boy parts is pretty gnarly (not in a good way) but doesn't this technically make them a lesbian couple?

No, one has girlparts and the other has mutilated boyparts. And, they're a straight couple... always will be.

See this person?

[images.art.com image 385x476]

[www.erikacoimbra.com.br image 210x384]

That's Erika Coimbra. Competed with Brazil on the volleyball team in 2000 and 2004.

She has XY chromosones. Male chromosones. She has had no surgery.

Do you think she should be required to marry a guy, or a girl?

I think he should marry whomever he wants to marry. It's nobody's business but his own (and the fiances, of course).

Ahem. Thouest can stop writing "whom" now.. it's the 21st century. I noticed you did not put two spaces after your period. Pick a stupid convention and stick with it, smart guy.


Whom isn't Old English, it's proper English. "Who" and "whom" follow the same rules as "he" and "him."
 
2012-11-11 12:13:20 PM  

ElizaDoolittle: Of all the unlikely things in this story (boy becomes cute girl as a teenager; girl becomes Bieber-like cute boy as a teenager), they met at a center for trans teens in Oklahoma?

I hope this is true, but not many trans kids have themselves all sorted out by that age, and OK would be the last place where I'd think of it happening.


Definitely Tulsa, Ok. The video at the end of the article was shot at Woodward Park.
 
2012-11-11 12:15:10 PM  

Devil's Advocaat: As cute and sappy as this is, the following line at the bottom of the article somewhat spoils it:

Sorry we are unable to accept comments for legal reasons.

Nice to know that the Daily Mail has such faith in its own readership that the comments were switched off to prevent hate speech aimed at a 16 and 18 year old in love with each other.


Yes, unfortunate, but it's completely reasonable, and the responsible thing to do.
In other news, I am also somewhat relieved at the relative lack of hate and derp in this thread. ...relative, that is, by Fark standards -but still, I guess that's progress.

And seriously, I think this is beautiful. They're two cute kids in love, and they understand each other better than others possibly could. If you don't get the whole transgendered thing, that's cool. But they get it. They get each other, and they're happy. Be happy for them.
 
2012-11-11 12:20:03 PM  

Myria: Those who tell us that we should just accept our birth gender don't understand that they're asking us to kill ourselves. We'd rather be dead than have to live as the sex we were born. The mental pain from feeling that you're the opposite gender, known as gender dysphoria, is extremely intense and often leads to suicide.

I'm still living as male because I still look male. From this, I have suicidal thoughts several times per week from gender dysphoria. I sleep all day on weekends because the dream world is so much less painful than the real world, and keeps me from crying.

My life is a waste.


In my opinion, this is the real problem. The fact that our society is so heteronormative that you think you have to go on as a guy when you're really a girl. Why can't you just act like a girl and no one care?
 
2012-11-11 12:22:05 PM  
That's ookie.
 
2012-11-11 12:22:16 PM  

Theaetetus: I do wonder, how much of gender identity disorder is due to discomfort with one's physical body, as opposed to how much is due to discomfort with stereotypical gender roles correlated with one's sex. For example, if our society never pressured anyone into certain roles and was completely accepting of people, would they go through with the surgery?

From the article:
"'Girly things didn't interest me, but I was worried what people would think if I said I wanted to be a boy, so I kept it secret.'
Arin's mother Denise, 41, encouraged him to compete in local pageant contests and he became an accomplished female ballet and clogging dancer. But Arin's secret love was riding motocross bikes with his father Mitch, 42, and doing triathlons and rock-climbing."
and from another article about Katie Hill:
In a house teeming with testosterone, Luke never wanted to do typical boy stuff.
His dad, Randy Hill, served as a lieutenant colonel in the Marines and leads the ROTC program at Bixby High School.
"We need to prepare for the fact that our child will probably be gay," Jazzlyn would tell Randy, hoping she could help him adjust to the idea. Randy was a jock, athletic, and wanted a son to play football and catch with.
Luke would never be that boy. He would sit quietly with Crayolas and color.

So, if Arin was encouraged as a girl - and not just by tolerant parents in spite of society, but by society - to do anything she wanted, including rock-climbing and motorcross, and if Luke was encouraged as a boy to do anything he wanted, including coloring and playing with dolls, would they later have wanted surgery?
Any TG farkers with some insight?



Difficult to say from just those quotes. The picture for them is no doubt bigger than that and the article's encapsulation; the WPATH standards of care necessary to have surgery should eliminate the chances that it's simply societal role-related. When an individual is transsexual, the desire to correct one's body is complete and is independent of society. To illustrate, if such a person were stranded on a desert island, alone, he or she would still be possessed of a tremendous, inescapable need to have a "different" body.

There are some societies where a "third sex" is recognized and the associated pressures may be muted, but transsexualism probably exists there as well.
 
2012-11-11 12:22:59 PM  

Myria: Those who tell us that we should just accept our birth gender don't understand that they're asking us to kill ourselves. We'd rather be dead than have to live as the sex we were born. The mental pain from feeling that you're the opposite gender, known as gender dysphoria, is extremely intense and often leads to suicide.

I'm still living as male because I still look male. From this, I have suicidal thoughts several times per week from gender dysphoria. I sleep all day on weekends because the dream world is so much less painful than the real world, and keeps me from crying.

My life is a waste.


Myria,

NO ONE's life is a waste.

You've had lots of folks post to this thread with suggestions on how and where to get help. All I can do is lend my voice to those who are encouraging you to get that help, and who are telling you that it can and does get better. It might not seem like it right now, but there is hope out there. Please be well and take care of yourself.
 
2012-11-11 12:26:30 PM  

DrPainMD: Darth_Lukecash: Yeah...but... Okay I'm really confused.

So transgender really means you think you're born the wrong sex... But how do you know that you're not just gay?

I mean its great they found eachother...but wouldn't they just feel that way anyhow being their own sex?

It's the only delusion supported by the medical community. If you think that you're Napoleon, they lock you in a rubber room, but if you think you're the opposite sex, they encourage you to run with it, and anybody who points out that it's just a delusion is ridiculed and labeled "hater" or "phobic." It's the modern version of "The Emperor's New Clothes."


You do realize that gender identity and biological sex are two completely different things, right? Nobody actually "thinks they're the opposite sex". 

I mean, if you want to completely reject scientific consensus on a topic, that's one thing, but you should at least make some pretense of understanding what it is you're rejecting if you don't want to look like a moron (well, not as big of a moron anyway).
 
2012-11-11 12:31:42 PM  

Silly Jesus: This is an abomination against God.


I can't believe how many people you have hooked with this line. I thought, "Obvious troll" given how Fark rolls. But I guess I was wrong.

Kudos.
 
2012-11-11 12:48:41 PM  

runcible spork: Difficult to say from just those quotes. The picture for them is no doubt bigger than that and the article's encapsulation; the WPATH standards of care necessary to have surgery should eliminate the chances that it's simply societal role-related. When an individual is transsexual, the desire to correct one's body is complete and is independent of society. To illustrate, if such a person were stranded on a desert island, alone, he or she would still be possessed of a tremendous, inescapable need to have a "different" body.


Theoretically, yes, but there's no way to eliminate that societal effect. And the WPATH standards don't seem to attempt to do so. Instead, they focus on the pragmatic effect of societal pressure on the patient, as they should: it's far easier to change a single person than to change society.

There are some societies where a "third sex" is recognized and the associated pressures may be muted, but transsexualism probably exists there as well.

In the WPATH, they note that it may exist, but not be expressed: "Even if epidemiological studies established that a similar base rate of gender identity disorders existed all over the world, it is likely that cultural differences from one country to another would alter the behavioral expressions of these conditions."
 
2012-11-11 12:50:13 PM  

queenalice: Myria, can you check back in at some point? It's concerning that the last thing you wrote was ... well, what it was. It's Sunday, so maybe by your own admission you're sleeping.


Myria's also west coast, so subtract 3 hours.
 
2012-11-11 12:51:24 PM  

trlkly: In my opinion, this is the real problem. The fact that our society is so heteronormative that you think you have to go on as a guy when you're really a girl. Why can't you just act like a girl and no one care?


That's what my question was getting towards... If society didn't care, would surgery still be required?

It's a purely academic question - we're not going to change society any time soon.
 
2012-11-11 12:51:39 PM  

Biological Ali: DrPainMD: Darth_Lukecash: Yeah...but... Okay I'm really confused.

So transgender really means you think you're born the wrong sex... But how do you know that you're not just gay?

I mean its great they found eachother...but wouldn't they just feel that way anyhow being their own sex?

It's the only delusion supported by the medical community. If you think that you're Napoleon, they lock you in a rubber room, but if you think you're the opposite sex, they encourage you to run with it, and anybody who points out that it's just a delusion is ridiculed and labeled "hater" or "phobic." It's the modern version of "The Emperor's New Clothes."

You do realize that gender identity and biological sex are two completely different things, right? Nobody actually "thinks they're the opposite sex". 

I mean, if you want to completely reject scientific consensus on a topic, that's one thing, but you should at least make some pretense of understanding what it is you're rejecting if you don't want to look like a moron (well, not as big of a moron anyway).


A) Of course gender identity and biological sex are two completely different things. How is that relevant? Well... it does support my contention that trannies are delusional, so there's that.

B) There is no "scientific consensus," as psychology isn't science. It's political correctness; those psychologists/psychiatrists who haven't conformed have, to a large degree, been run out of the profession. That's not scientific consensus.
 
2012-11-11 12:55:02 PM  

DrPainMD: ciberido: DrPainMD: dopekitty74: So right now, both have girlparts down below?

I understand that the surgery to add boy parts is pretty gnarly (not in a good way) but doesn't this technically make them a lesbian couple?

No, one has girlparts and the other has mutilated boyparts. And, they're a straight couple... always will be.

It's interesting how much this bothers you. You really, really seem intimidated by transsexuals.

What makes you think that it bothers me at all. For the record: it doesn't bother me in the slightest.


That's not what the language used in your opening post would suggest. You might want to work on presentation.
 
2012-11-11 12:55:30 PM  

DrPainMD: psychology isn't science


That might be where your delusion starts.

/Just because it is harder to acquire valid results and correct interpretations doesn't mean psychology is any less scientific than chemistry. it's just more difficult.
 
2012-11-11 01:01:05 PM  

Bobbi Wickham: brobinson2001: Not trolling, but thank Nature they figured this out before they reproduced. Yeah, it's heartwarming on an emotional level, but from a purely genetic standpoint, I'm glad they both got snipped before spreading this crap into the general gene pool, and weakening the entire species.

My Father's transgendered, I guess I should just head off to your death camp right?


Quagmire?

i1323.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-11 01:04:03 PM  
Theaetetus: runcible spork: Difficult to say from just those quotes. The picture for them is no doubt bigger than that and the article's encapsulation; the WPATH standards of care necessary to have surgery should eliminate the chances that it's simply societal role-related. When an individual is transsexual, the desire to correct one's body is complete and is independent of society. To illustrate, if such a person were stranded on a desert island, alone, he or she would still be possessed of a tremendous, inescapable need to have a "different" body.

Theoretically, yes, but there's no way to eliminate that societal effect. And the WPATH standards don't seem to attempt to do so. Instead, they focus on the pragmatic effect of societal pressure on the patient, as they should: it's far easier to change a single person than to change society.


It's a sensible approach, no? As you say, pragmatic.

There are some societies where a "third sex" is recognized and the associated pressures may be muted, but transsexualism probably exists there as well.

In the WPATH, they note that it may exist, but not be expressed: "Even if epidemiological studies established that a similar base rate of gender identity disorders existed all over the world, it is likely that cultural differences from one country to another would alter the behavioral expressions of these conditions."


Right, but I wonder if studies have been done in such societies, to query "third sex" individuals whether they are aware of and if so have a desire for SRS. I can't imagine there haven't been at least a few such studies for an admittedly marginal but extremely intriguing subject. Also, irrespective of societal (and personal) acceptance, there is an undeniable, tangible and functional difference between having one set of genitalia versus another kind.
 
2012-11-11 01:05:33 PM  

queenalice: Myria, can you check back in at some point? It's concerning that the last thing you wrote was ... well, what it was. It's Sunday, so maybe by your own admission you're sleeping. I urge you to read and digest the comments of support you have just in this thread alone. There is more support out there. All hope is not lost! Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid.


I'm alive... I fell asleep with my iPad in my hands since it was like 3 am here (Los Angeles time).

Thank you so much for that month of TotalFark. That was really sweet of you <3
 
2012-11-11 01:07:57 PM  
Why is anyone giving characters like Silly Jesus and this DrPainMD the time of day? Neither has any interest in constructive communication.

Myria: things are never quite as hopeless or insurmountable as they all too frequently seem. Please heed the concerned voices and caring sentiments here (and elsewhere, if so).
 
2012-11-11 01:09:23 PM  

DrPainMD: A) Of course gender identity and biological sex are two completely different things. How is that relevant? Well... it does support my contention that trannies are delusional, so there's that.


You clearly don't understand the bolded part at all, else you wouldn't have made this post (or any of the other posts you've made in the thread thus far).

B) There is no "scientific consensus," as psychology isn't science. It's political correctness; those psychologists/psychiatrists who haven't conformed have, to a large degree, been run out of the profession. That's not scientific consensus.

Have you ever heard somebody saying (or perhaps somebody parodying somebody saying) something like "I don't believe in evolution 'cause a monkey ain't never gave birth to no human. And evolution ain't even science if you ask me - all the real scienticians what tell the truth done been throwed by the liberals." Because that's what you're sounding like right now.

I mean, the least you could do is wikipedia these topics so that you have some minimal idea about what exactly it is that you're purporting to reject.
 
2012-11-11 01:16:56 PM  
The ironic thing here is that Katie is better looking then every single subby described 'hottie' that I have seen in every article on Fark. EVER.
 
2012-11-11 01:17:49 PM  
This is beyond farked up. Good for them!
 
2012-11-11 01:37:20 PM  

Myria: queenalice: Myria, can you check back in at some point? It's concerning that the last thing you wrote was ... well, what it was. It's Sunday, so maybe by your own admission you're sleeping. I urge you to read and digest the comments of support you have just in this thread alone. There is more support out there. All hope is not lost! Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid.

I'm alive... I fell asleep with my iPad in my hands since it was like 3 am here (Los Angeles time).

Thank you so much for that month of TotalFark. That was really sweet of you <3



Glad you came back. :) Hugs!

I used to hang out with a transgendered person. He went by Manny, and wore a beard, but said he felt he was a woman, and would occasionally shave, do makeup, etc, and was actually quite convincing due to his small build and stature. He grew up in a small hick town and was bullied very badly, so he grew a tough shell and was as manly as could be when needed, but his feminine side was very evident.

Unfortunately, Manny kinda farked over a good friend of mine, so I no longer associate with him/her (can't recall what his girl name was now, its been years)
 
2012-11-11 01:45:43 PM  
I'm kind of surprised that this thread hasn't gotten that many of the Farkers who truly don't accept transsexualism. Most of the ones who did are obvious trolls or satirists, and don't really count in my mind.

*Hugs dope kitty back*
 
2012-11-11 01:58:38 PM  

dopekitty74: I used to hang out with a transgendered person. He went by Manny, and wore a beard, but said he felt he was a woman, and would occasionally shave, do makeup, etc, and was actually quite convincing due to his small build and stature.


www.tvchannelsfree.com
Proud.
 
2012-11-11 02:01:04 PM  

Theaetetus: trlkly: In my opinion, this is the real problem. The fact that our society is so heteronormative that you think you have to go on as a guy when you're really a girl. Why can't you just act like a girl and no one care?

That's what my question was getting towards... If society didn't care, would surgery still be required?

It's a purely academic question - we're not going to change society any time soon.


"Jazz" knew she was a girl at age three. There is hardwiring involved in this. No, I don't think girls are hardwired to wear makeup and dresses; but it does seem likely that each gender is hardwired to emulate the behavior of others (including the manner of dress, and other decorations) of their same gender where ever they grow up. The gender of the brain is the important part.
 
2012-11-11 02:04:23 PM  

Silly Jesus: This is an abomination against God.

-=-
And if he doesn't like it, he will deal with it as HE sees fit, not what you think he sees fit. Okay?
Now get back down on your knees and pray for your soul.

As for me, Cool for them. I am happy for them.
And she's got a good looking bod too.
 
2012-11-11 02:14:22 PM  

dopekitty74: Bobbi Wickham: brobinson2001: Not trolling, but thank Nature they figured this out before they reproduced. Yeah, it's heartwarming on an emotional level, but from a purely genetic standpoint, I'm glad they both got snipped before spreading this crap into the general gene pool, and weakening the entire species.

My Father's transgendered, I guess I should just head off to your death camp right?

Quagmire?

[i1323.photobucket.com image 235x215]


I happen to be female, and not so into farking everything that moves.
 
2012-11-11 02:15:56 PM  

DrPainMD: cycle23: DrPainMD: Darth_Lukecash: Yeah...but... Okay I'm really confused.

So transgender really means you think you're born the wrong sex... But how do you know that you're not just gay?

I mean its great they found eachother...but wouldn't they just feel that way anyhow being their own sex?

It's the only delusion supported by the medical community. If you think that you're Napoleon, they lock you in a rubber room, but if you think you're the opposite sex, they encourage you to run with it, and anybody who points out that it's just a delusion is ridiculed and labeled "hater" or "phobic." It's the modern version of "The Emperor's New Clothes."

Since it is supported by "the medical community", perhaps your definintion of the word "delusional" is not the medical definition.

There's no question that it's a delusion. You don't need to be a shrink to figure that out.


There's so much that we DON'T know yet about DNA and genetics. If it is okay to accept that Junior got his eyes from his dad and his eye color from his mom, that he got his left handedness from dad and his musical proficiency from mom, why is it so hard to believe that gender-specific thought patterns (e.g. those thoughts and feelings that make one accept and appreciate that he or she is male or female) could be inherited as well?

Maybe they are and 9 times out of 10 those patterns match the chromosomal makeup but that 1 time where they don't match up is when you end up with someone who has gender identity disorder?

I am not a scientist or anything like that. So if what I am suggesting is absotively posilutely not possible then please let me know so I can learn something.

I don't see how it can be ruled out 100% though. There's still so much we don't know.
 
2012-11-11 02:17:51 PM  

Repo Man: Theaetetus: trlkly: In my opinion, this is the real problem. The fact that our society is so heteronormative that you think you have to go on as a guy when you're really a girl. Why can't you just act like a girl and no one care?

That's what my question was getting towards... If society didn't care, would surgery still be required?

It's a purely academic question - we're not going to change society any time soon.

"Jazz" knew she was a girl at age three. There is hardwiring involved in this. No, I don't think girls are hardwired to wear makeup and dresses; but it does seem likely that each gender is hardwired to emulate the behavior of others (including the manner of dress, and other decorations) of their same gender where ever they grow up. The gender of the brain is the important part.


Counterpoint is that kids are well socialized by age three and easily able to recognize gender stereotypes. Whether gender is hardwired or not is not yet proven (though, you're right in that emulating behavior is hardwired - but they're exposed to those stereotypes starting literally at birth).
 
2012-11-11 02:26:11 PM  

DrPainMD: ciberido: It's interesting how much this bothers you. You really, really seem intimidated by transsexuals.

What makes you think that it bothers me at all. For the record: it doesn't bother me in the slightest.


Sure. That's why you spew such angry posts into thread after thread about transgendered and homosexual people. Because you're not bothered at all. Nosiree.

Really. Get help. You're clearly very agitated by gender/sex. I don't know what your issues are. I'm not a therapist. But I do know you need one.
 
2012-11-11 02:34:04 PM  
Wait a minute here! Somebody posted a video of a guy with lady-parts having sex with a chick with dude-parts (or vice-versa) and it was pretty much just passed over? That was without a doubt the most confusing thing I've ever seen in my life. I had no idea what I suppose to be looking at.
 
2012-11-11 02:36:00 PM  

Repo Man: Theaetetus: trlkly: In my opinion, this is the real problem. The fact that our society is so heteronormative that you think you have to go on as a guy when you're really a girl. Why can't you just act like a girl and no one care?

That's what my question was getting towards... If society didn't care, would surgery still be required?

It's a purely academic question - we're not going to change society any time soon.

"Jazz" knew she was a girl at age three. There is hardwiring involved in this. No, I don't think girls are hardwired to wear makeup and dresses; but it does seem likely that each gender is hardwired to emulate the behavior of others (including the manner of dress, and other decorations) of their same gender where ever they grow up. The gender of the brain is the important part.


There's evidence that transsexuals have different "phantom limb" issues than non-transseuxals when it comes to their genitalia. This strongly suggests that a transsexual really is a case of a male brain inside a female body or vice-versa. A mtf's brain, for example, may well have a "female body map" imprinted into it from birth. 

There's also anecdotal evidence that this extends to a kind of "phantom breast syndrome" as well, but it hasn't been studied scientifically as far as I know.
 
2012-11-11 02:37:44 PM  

Silly Jesus: This is an abomination against God.


Well, that's fine, but they aren't Christian. Here in America, we don't tell people to follow our religion, or criticize them based on our personal religious beliefs. After all, I could tell you that you're disobeying the Goddess by being rude to two people who are happy (where there are happy people, the Goddess is there, and while it's two people, not three, my interpretation is that anywhere there is joy is the realm of the Goddess), but I'm not, because I recognize you are a Christian and I don't get to criticize other people based on my personal beliefs.
 
2012-11-11 02:39:08 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Yeah...but... Okay I'm really confused.

So transgender really means you think you're born the wrong sex... But how do you know that you're not just gay?


Well you should be really confused to learn, then, that some heterosexuals change sex but are still attracted to people of the same sex they just changed to. So they go from being a straight guy to a lesbian, for instance.

You don't determine what sex you "should" be by looking at who you're attracted to. Those two things are separate.
 
2012-11-11 02:41:30 PM  
No South Park references yet? Fark, I am disappoint.

As for couple - everyone deserves a chance to be happy.
 
2012-11-11 02:41:44 PM  

Oznog: GungFu: I don't think I've seen this porn potential before.

I do hope they embrace the 'entertainment' business.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x330][upload.wikimedia.org image 220x330]

Ask and Ye Shall Receive (totally NSFW)

Buck Angel on the left is the only female-to-male transsexual in the porn business. Allanah Starr on the right is a male-to-female transsexual (shemale, all the lower bits intact).

To clarify... that's the pussy on the left, the cock on the right. If you're still confused, watch it, and be more confused than ever. 

Now try to answer "isn't this totally gay??" Well I'd sooner answer "what is the sound of one hand clapping?" I have no farking idea.


Buck Angel's first scene with a guy in "Buckback Mountain" is his hottest scene, in my opinion. Helps that his partner is a hot hunk, too.
 
2012-11-11 02:43:07 PM  

PsiChick: Silly Jesus: This is an abomination against God.

Well, that's fine, but they aren't Christian. Here in America, we don't tell people to follow our religion, or criticize them based on our personal religious beliefs. After all, I could tell you that you're disobeying the Goddess by being rude to two people who are happy (where there are happy people, the Goddess is there, and while it's two people, not three, my interpretation is that anywhere there is joy is the realm of the Goddess), but I'm not, because I recognize you are a Christian and I don't get to criticize other people based on my personal beliefs.


He was trolling.
 
2012-11-11 02:43:59 PM  

Repo Man: Theaetetus: trlkly: In my opinion, this is the real problem. The fact that our society is so heteronormative that you think you have to go on as a guy when you're really a girl. Why can't you just act like a girl and no one care?

That's what my question was getting towards... If society didn't care, would surgery still be required?

It's a purely academic question - we're not going to change society any time soon.

"Jazz" knew she was a girl at age three. There is hardwiring involved in this. No, I don't think girls are hardwired to wear makeup and dresses; but it does seem likely that each gender is hardwired to emulate the behavior of others (including the manner of dress, and other decorations) of their same gender where ever they grow up. The gender of the brain is the important part.


Actually, on watching the first segment again, she insisted that she was a girl from the time she could first talk.
 
2012-11-11 02:51:30 PM  

LargeCanine: PsiChick: Silly Jesus: This is an abomination against God.

Well, that's fine, but they aren't Christian. Here in America, we don't tell people to follow our religion, or criticize them based on our personal religious beliefs. After all, I could tell you that you're disobeying the Goddess by being rude to two people who are happy (where there are happy people, the Goddess is there, and while it's two people, not three, my interpretation is that anywhere there is joy is the realm of the Goddess), but I'm not, because I recognize you are a Christian and I don't get to criticize other people based on my personal beliefs.

He was trolling.


Duly noted. I was responding more to the people who genuinely believe this.
 
2012-11-11 02:57:44 PM  

ciberido: Repo Man: Theaetetus: trlkly: In my opinion, this is the real problem. The fact that our society is so heteronormative that you think you have to go on as a guy when you're really a girl. Why can't you just act like a girl and no one care?

That's what my question was getting towards... If society didn't care, would surgery still be required?

It's a purely academic question - we're not going to change society any time soon.

"Jazz" knew she was a girl at age three. There is hardwiring involved in this. No, I don't think girls are hardwired to wear makeup and dresses; but it does seem likely that each gender is hardwired to emulate the behavior of others (including the manner of dress, and other decorations) of their same gender where ever they grow up. The gender of the brain is the important part.

There's evidence that transsexuals have different "phantom limb" issues than non-transseuxals when it comes to their genitalia. This strongly suggests that a transsexual really is a case of a male brain inside a female body or vice-versa. A mtf's brain, for example, may well have a "female body map" imprinted into it from birth. 

There's also anecdotal evidence that this extends to a kind of "phantom breast syndrome" as well, but it hasn't been studied scientifically as far as I know.


Interesting. I have a tiny bit of experience with phantom limb syndrome. Working on my motorcycle many years ago, I managed to sever my thumb at the first knuckle by stupidly getting it caught in the chain. Immediately afterwards, it was in a cast; I knew that half of my thumb was gone, but so long as I couldn't see it, it felt as though it was still there. It took some time after the cast was removed for the feeling to go away.
 
2012-11-11 03:02:39 PM  

Myria: Those who tell us that we should just accept our birth gender don't understand that they're asking us to kill ourselves. We'd rather be dead than have to live as the sex we were born. The mental pain from feeling that you're the opposite gender, known as gender dysphoria, is extremely intense and often leads to suicide.

I'm still living as male because I still look male. From this, I have suicidal thoughts several times per week from gender dysphoria. I sleep all day on weekends because the dream world is so much less painful than the real world, and keeps me from crying.

My life is a waste.


Myria,

I can't imagine what you go through on a daily basis but I'm so sorry that the world that we live in
makes it necessary for you to go through it.

I totally understand preferring the dream world to the real world. There was a time when I would
have slept 24/7 if I could have.

Please PLEASE know that your life is NOT a waste.
 
2012-11-11 03:03:51 PM  
I had to give my cat species re-alignment surgery because he was a dog. As a cat he kept getting the crap beat out of him for sniffing all the other cats butts. Now as a dog he doesn't sniff cat butts, just dog butts and constantly humps the chair. He looks much happier now.
 
2012-11-11 03:10:56 PM  

PsiChick: LargeCanine: PsiChick: Silly Jesus: This is an abomination against God.

Well, that's fine, but they aren't Christian. Here in America, we don't tell people to follow our religion, or criticize them based on our personal religious beliefs. After all, I could tell you that you're disobeying the Goddess by being rude to two people who are happy (where there are happy people, the Goddess is there, and while it's two people, not three, my interpretation is that anywhere there is joy is the realm of the Goddess), but I'm not, because I recognize you are a Christian and I don't get to criticize other people based on my personal beliefs.

He was trolling.

Duly noted. I was responding more to the people who genuinely believe this.


Who would that be? You are assuming Christians in your post, but most Christians are pretty tolerant. Why not muslims, or Hindus or Zoarastrians?
 
2012-11-11 03:17:42 PM  

ciberido: The problem with your example is that person you're talking about isn't (and wasn't) a guy, normal or otherwise. She was a woman all along.


For certain definitions of the word "woman", anyhow. Transgendered people are not always going to be treated as being exactly the same as anyone else of their new sex in all respects, not even by people who are otherwise tolerant and accepting.
 
2012-11-11 03:20:43 PM  

StopLurkListen:

And some of my best friends are passed out in a pool of their own vomit, so I say that with love.


takes a lot of vomit to fill a pool. Are we talking kiddie wading pool, reflection pool, or Olympic sized pool? This is important.
 
2012-11-11 03:23:13 PM  

LargeCanine: PsiChick: LargeCanine: PsiChick: Silly Jesus: This is an abomination against God.

Well, that's fine, but they aren't Christian. Here in America, we don't tell people to follow our religion, or criticize them based on our personal religious beliefs. After all, I could tell you that you're disobeying the Goddess by being rude to two people who are happy (where there are happy people, the Goddess is there, and while it's two people, not three, my interpretation is that anywhere there is joy is the realm of the Goddess), but I'm not, because I recognize you are a Christian and I don't get to criticize other people based on my personal beliefs.

He was trolling.

Duly noted. I was responding more to the people who genuinely believe this.

Who would that be? You are assuming Christians in your post, but most Christians are pretty tolerant. Why not muslims, or Hindus or Zoarastrians?


Well, first, Silly Jesus was using a standard asshole!Christian talking point, not a Hindi\Zoarastrian\Muslim talking point. Second, in reference to your bolded part...no, the statistical majority of Christian Americans are glorified assholes misusing Bible quotes. There are some awesome Christians out there, and there is no religion without a ton of assholes, but in America if you meet a religious nutjob, odds are pretty good it's a Christian who is fairly well accepted in his\her community.
 
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