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(Salon)   The biggest threat to conservatism now might be conservative media   (salon.com) divider line 195
    More: Obvious, Steve Doocy, elections in 2012, term in office, Rush Limbaugh, Conor Friedersdorf, Sean Hannity, liberal bias  
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4880 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Nov 2012 at 11:46 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



195 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-11-10 11:03:12 AM  
The next four years will be boom times for conservative media; it's always good for business when your enemies are in power. They will continue to infuriate liberals. But the next time you see Fox propagating some absurd fantasy of Barack Obama's perfidy, or see Limbaugh and Carlson ramping up another episode of race-baiting, remind yourself that they're probably doing the most harm to their own side.

And they'll keep right on keeping on. There's lots more money to be made spinning yarns for stupid folk.
 
2012-11-10 11:14:51 AM  
It could be that they'll just go full entertainment, dop the pretense of news analysis and do nothing but crazy Limbovian / Beckesque rant sauce. This would be win-win for the stupids and the rest of us, as anyone with half a brain tunes it out.

Rush or Beck can't turn a rant into an email campaign to Congress these days; their shows are meant for potato-chip-and-bourbon jack-off sessions, and their listeners know it.
 
2012-11-10 11:14:55 AM  

St_Francis_P: The next four years will be boom times for conservative media; it's always good for business when your enemies are in power. They will continue to infuriate liberals. But the next time you see Fox propagating some absurd fantasy of Barack Obama's perfidy, or see Limbaugh and Carlson ramping up another episode of race-baiting, remind yourself that they're probably doing the most harm to their own side.

And they'll keep right on keeping on. There's lots more money to be made spinning yarns for stupid folk.


Yeah, I think at first that the right-wing media might have been about aiding the Republican Party, but it's a Frankenstein that's grown beyond their control. Someone like Limbaugh or Beck can't dial back the derp now, or they'll lose their audience. So even if the Republican Party asks them to chill, they won't.
 
2012-11-10 11:15:48 AM  
They're just going to keep bitterly clinging to their guns and religion.
 
2012-11-10 11:16:05 AM  
The next four years will be boom times for conservative media; it's always good for business when your enemies are in power. They will continue to infuriate liberals

I don't think 'infuriate' is the right word. 'slightly amuse' might be better. Limbaugh and his buddies are actually some of the best recruiters for the Democratic party in the history of ever. especially in light of the recent elections - the right wing media is training rank and file Republicans to fail. look, it's a simple fact of life that if you do not understand your opponent then your opponent is going to win. the Democrats understand the GOP very well...we know what they are, we know their goals, we know how they operate and we can plan effectively to beat them in an election...this was proved on election day. But the GOP don't sit down and have a hard headed realistic analysis of their own strengths and weaknesses, let alone a clear view of the Democratic party. they listen to their own propaganda, which tells them that everyone not GOP is corrupt, immoral and weak. The GOP is on the side of GOD, their views are superior, and that everyone is living in a 'christian nation' and deep down that everyone is actually a flag waving bible thumping christian just waiting to vote for a Republican leadership. the Republicans don't stop and consider what works for them and what doesn't. they consider compromise a weakness, and show contempt for even those among their own who want to find a way to work with anyone outside the GOP echo chamber.

Basically, the Republican party teaches their rank and file to lose. if you don't respect what your opponent can do, then you cannot plan an effective strategy to deal with their tactics. if you have contempt for everyone who is different, it blinds you to their potential that's why I lurve Rush Limbaugh - he's killing the GOP and doesn't know it. I don't want to shut him down...I want him right where he's at, doing exactly what he's doing. Dear gods...I hope the man never changes!
 
2012-11-10 11:19:24 AM  
I'm okay with this. Because I love it when they call me a slut because of my whore pills. And I love it when they say I'm warring on their Jesus because I say "Happy Holidays."

It's fun for me.
 
2012-11-10 11:25:58 AM  
I keep wondering when my sane conservative friends will start speaking out and take back their party...I am also waiting for a winning lottery ticket. WHAT? A GIRL CAN DREAM!!!
 
2012-11-10 11:26:56 AM  
I hope no one said the same about Mein Kampf.
 
2012-11-10 11:33:52 AM  

i upped my meds-up yours: It could be that they'll just go full entertainment, dop the pretense of news analysis and do nothing but crazy Limbovian / Beckesque rant sauce. This would be win-win for the stupids and the rest of us, as anyone with half a brain tunes it out.

Rush or Beck can't turn a rant into an email campaign to Congress these days; their shows are meant for potato-chip-and-bourbon jack-off sessions, and their listeners know it.


Hey now, that's over the line. What's wrong with potato chips, bourbon, and jacking off?
 
2012-11-10 11:35:10 AM  

FloydA: i upped my meds-up yours: It could be that they'll just go full entertainment, dop the pretense of news analysis and do nothing but crazy Limbovian / Beckesque rant sauce. This would be win-win for the stupids and the rest of us, as anyone with half a brain tunes it out.

Rush or Beck can't turn a rant into an email campaign to Congress these days; their shows are meant for potato-chip-and-bourbon jack-off sessions, and their listeners know it.

Hey now, that's over the line. What's wrong with potato chips, bourbon, and jacking off?

Limelight, two turntables, and a microphone?

FTFY
 
2012-11-10 11:36:48 AM  
You would have thought that this election would have snapped them out of their echo chamber. They have to realize they were being fed a false narrative.

I have a friend who is a huge Glenn Beck fan. He is otherwise a very smart, analytical type. If this doesn't wake him up then I will have lost all hope. He honestly believes he 'knows' Glenn, a true patriot, who would do anything to save this country from the Socialist. Not an 'entertainer' who makes millions off of scaring people about the various atrocities that the Dems want to inflict upon them for all eternity.
 
2012-11-10 11:38:22 AM  

syrynxx: They're just going to keep bitterly clinging to their guns and religion.


again, I was floored by the near complete lack of ground level organization among Team Romney supporters. they had fire, passion for their candidate...but no organization. their own ideology is central command driven, it doesn't teach them individual initiative. everything HAS to be approved by someone further up their chain of command and GOD help you if you do something without authorization. so in the end, they had a bunch of Romney voters standing around waiting for orders while Team Obama ran the table.
 
2012-11-10 11:39:29 AM  

Girl From The North Country: You would have thought that this election would have snapped them out of their echo chamber. They have to realize they were being fed a false narrative.

I have a friend who is a huge Glenn Beck fan. He is otherwise a very smart, analytical type. If this doesn't wake him up then I will have lost all hope. He honestly believes he 'knows' Glenn, a true patriot, who would do anything to save this country from the Socialist. Not an 'entertainer' who makes millions off of scaring people about the various atrocities that the Dems want to inflict upon them for all eternity.


talk to your friend. just be aware that transitioning from the echo chamber to reality can be a very jarring experience.
 
2012-11-10 11:42:02 AM  

Girl From The North Country: You would have thought that this election would have snapped them out of their echo chamber. They have to realize they were being fed a false narrative.

I have a friend who is a huge Glenn Beck fan. He is otherwise a very smart, analytical type. If this doesn't wake him up then I will have lost all hope. He honestly believes he 'knows' Glenn, a true patriot, who would do anything to save this country from the Socialist. Not an 'entertainer' who makes millions off of scaring people about the various atrocities that the Dems want to inflict upon them for all eternity.


One of the losing GOP congressional candidates actually name-checked Sean Hannity in his concession speech. Of all the great Americans, philosophers, and statesman in history, he chose to pass them all over and quote Sean Farking Hannity.
 
2012-11-10 11:42:41 AM  

Weaver95: syrynxx: They're just going to keep bitterly clinging to their guns and religion.

again, I was floored by the near complete lack of ground level organization among Team Romney supporters. they had fire, passion for their candidate...but no organization. their own ideology is central command driven, it doesn't teach them individual initiative. everything HAS to be approved by someone further up their chain of command and GOD help you if you do something without authorization. so in the end, they had a bunch of Romney voters standing around waiting for orders while Team Obama ran the table.


I have to thank you Weav. It was stories like this that kept me confident during the last couple weeks leading up to the election. While the media was touting their horse race narrative, and team Romney was touting enthusiasm, I found comfort in the ground game disparity.

So thanks. CSB
 
2012-11-10 11:46:18 AM  

Girl From The North Country: You would have thought that this election would have snapped them out of their echo chamber. They have to realize they were being fed a false narrative.

I have a friend who is a huge Glenn Beck fan. He is otherwise a very smart, analytical type. If this doesn't wake him up then I will have lost all hope. He honestly believes he 'knows' Glenn, a true patriot, who would do anything to save this country from the Socialist. Not an 'entertainer' who makes millions off of scaring people about the various atrocities that the Dems want to inflict upon them for all eternity.


I'm trying to picture a smart analytical type who could simultaneously take Glenn Beck seriously. That does not compute.
 
2012-11-10 11:51:28 AM  

Girl From The North Country:

I have to thank you Weav. It was stories like this that kept me confident during the last couple weeks leading up to the election. While the media was touting their horse race narrative, and team Romney was touting enthusiasm, I found comfort in the ground game disparity.

So thanks. CSB


lemme tell ya - it was downright WEIRD for the past two weeks. I didn't comment much about it on fark 'cause I was kinda busy at the time but...I'd put in 8-12 hours, the come home and catch the news to hear Fox News loudly proclaim that Team Romney was charging ahead in key states. Team Romney was going to win Pennsylvania, Team Romney had Ohio in the bag. The Democrats were despondent, the Democrats were not enthusiastic. the Democrats knew they had already lost and were fleeing the campaign in despair. And I'd look around the Democratic party HQ and wonder where in the hell Fox News and Limbaugh were getting their information.

don't get me wrong, both sides have their propaganda...but what GOP pundits were saying was so jarringly different from the reality out in the dust of the campaign trail that it might as well had been pure fantasy. I learned a LOT working for the Obama folks, not just about how to run a campaign but about the GOP news engine.
 
2012-11-10 11:53:46 AM  
There's lots more money to be made spinning yarns for stupid folk.

From James Garner's memoirs about the Maverick TV series: "As pappy used to say 'Man's the only animal you can skin more than once.'"
 
2012-11-10 11:54:21 AM  
You have to give the GOP some credit, they built their echo chamber with some outstanding resilience.

Unfortunately, they'll end up like Porky from Mother 3.

/I'm a geek, sue me
 
2012-11-10 11:55:01 AM  
News flash neocons......Rush Limbaugh and the pundits don't give a shiat about you and your ideology. As long as that steady paycheck keeps rolling in, they will keep shoveling the shiat you want to hear. Outrage and conspiracy theories keep you neocons foaming at the mouth. You are being duped and the pundits are laughing at you.......and rightly so.
 
2012-11-10 11:55:14 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Girl From The North Country: You would have thought that this election would have snapped them out of their echo chamber. They have to realize they were being fed a false narrative.

I have a friend who is a huge Glenn Beck fan. He is otherwise a very smart, analytical type. If this doesn't wake him up then I will have lost all hope. He honestly believes he 'knows' Glenn, a true patriot, who would do anything to save this country from the Socialist. Not an 'entertainer' who makes millions off of scaring people about the various atrocities that the Dems want to inflict upon them for all eternity.

I'm trying to picture a smart analytical type who could simultaneously take Glenn Beck seriously. That does not compute.


lol - The cognitive dissonance burns. He hasn't come out of his figurative bunker since Tuesday (he usually IM's me every day). We'll see...
 
2012-11-10 11:55:54 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: I'm trying to picture a smart analytical type who could simultaneously take Glenn Beck seriously. That does not compute.


CSB: One of my relatives has a Ph.D. in Physics AND buys into what Glenn Beck & Rush Limbaugh churn out. He's also socially inept and has no mastery of interpersonal relationships, IMHO...
 
2012-11-10 11:57:47 AM  

i upped my meds-up yours: It could be that they'll just go full entertainment, dop the pretense of news analysis and do nothing but crazy Limbovian / Beckesque rant sauce. This would be win-win for the stupids and the rest of us, as anyone with half a brain tunes it out.

Rush or Beck can't turn a rant into an email campaign to Congress these days; their shows are meant for potato-chip-and-bourbon jack-off sessions, and their listeners know it.


Man, I really want potato chips and bourbon now...
 
2012-11-10 11:59:08 AM  
Conservative media has done a masterful job of convincing the drool afflicted populace with the notion that the bottom of the economic pyramid is the source of our economic woes. A perfect "ignore the man behind the curtain" job of misdirection. And that's a little bit scary....in an Orwellian kind of way.
 
2012-11-10 11:59:25 AM  
The article's lede: "When Republicans perform a full autopsy on the 2012 elections, they'll realize they only deluded themselves"

Ain't gonna happen anytime soon. They ran an quick post-mortem and decided that the obvious problem was that they simply weren't conservative enough.
 
2012-11-10 12:02:36 PM  
This is the most delicious irony of the GOP's slow crawl toward irrelevance since their embrace of the southern strategy,They're forced to "dance with one that brung ya", and it's going to destroy them.
 
2012-11-10 12:03:04 PM  

MacWizard: The article's lede: "When Republicans perform a full autopsy on the 2012 elections, they'll realize they only deluded themselves"

Ain't gonna happen anytime soon. They ran an quick post-mortem and decided that the obvious problem was that they simply weren't conservative enough.


yeah but its early yet. i'm sure that right now a bunch of elite GOP inner circle members are sitting around a table somewhere and having a frank, no bullshiat discussion about what they're gonna do for 2014. they got their asses beat and they know it. propaganda aside, they KNOW they lost big and I very strongly suspect that it's shocking enough to force them to confront a reality they're not very fond of admitting exists in the first place.

strange times indeed for the GOP. they might actually be desperate enough to move back to the center.
 
2012-11-10 12:04:29 PM  
this is obvious. has been for the few decades, and now it is just the norm. every dumbshyte who has an internet connection can buy themselves the mental comfort of always being right, and always being justified. Que BarryGoldwater.jpeg.

its more than that too. and as a conservative i am pissed sean freeping hannitynand that bloated sack of flesh that is wush windbag is allowed to even be considered a "conservative".

oh wait. its because they are into Conservative the brand, not the ideology. they sell their shiat at walmart. They rather sell Tea, bs gold coinage, and 'freedom concerts' to people then actually being conservative, or godsakes even propose some real conservative ideas.

AND NO MISTER WINDBRAH INSTANT AMNESTY WITH ONE "caveat" OF NOT BEING ABLE TO VOTE FOR 25 YEARS IS NOT CITIZENSHIP. YOU CIRCUS CLOWN OF HATE SPEECH AND BULLshiat.

i don't see this changing anytime soon either. people love to buy into their own bullshiat.
 
2012-11-10 12:05:12 PM  

Weaver95:

strange times indeed for the GOP. they might actually be desperate enough to move back to the center.


But then we'd only have one party........Demopublicans? Repubocrats?
 
2012-11-10 12:05:52 PM  
I suspect they're all potted up overweight dope fiends that will say anything to keep the handouts rolling in to the elderly and unemployed white people in southern states. This great nation of ours was founded on hard work and Christianity, not socialism and cults.
 
2012-11-10 12:07:16 PM  

DubyaHater: News flash neocons......Rush Limbaugh and the pundits don't give a shiat about you and your ideology. As long as that steady paycheck keeps rolling in, they will keep shoveling the shiat you want to hear. Outrage and conspiracy theories keep you neocons foaming at the mouth. You are being duped and the pundits are laughing at you.......and rightly so.


They seem to think that these people, and Sarah Palin, love and cherish them. They have empathy for them. But I'm sure that the reality in Rush's mind when he meets a poor pasty bloated teabagger who's broken through his security scrim to say worshipful things is utter contempt.

And before I hear "both sides ur bad, Fartbongo hates everyone": No. I believe that Obama does genuinely like people not just because they're billionaires. His dazzling smile probably does help that aura of friendliness, and he's admittedly emotionally cool, but I don't believe that he's anything near as smarmy as grifters like Palin or Rush who have no personal integrity.
 
2012-11-10 12:09:12 PM  
Much like the GOP's demographic of angry old white guys is dying out, so too is their media demographic of angry old gullible white guys. Sooner or later what remains of their audience is going to be too smart to fall for the lies and manufactured outrage, and wise up to the fact that they're being used.

No doubt the noise will continue, at least for a while longer, but if the GOP has any hope of surviving they need to come straight with potential voters and not just tap into anger that they help manufacture. 2010 gave them false hope for that, but with each passing year they lose more and more adherents. And not just to the grave. After a while, even the most ignorant of consumers will realize that what FOX is telling him just doesn't jibe with reality, no matter how much he has come to want it to.
 
2012-11-10 12:09:15 PM  

shastacola: This is the most delicious irony of the GOP's slow crawl toward irrelevance since their embrace of the southern strategy,They're forced to "dance with one that brung ya", and it's going to destroy them.


On the southern strategy: There was an article here not long ago saying Rmoney won the same percentage of the white vote that St. Reagan did in his 49-state landslide.

The southern strategy is dead.
 
2012-11-10 12:11:22 PM  
Ah, conservative media. Not news, but a warm cocoon for the hateful and donning damp underwear.
 
2012-11-10 12:13:37 PM  

Weaver95: syrynxx: They're just going to keep bitterly clinging to their guns and religion.

again, I was floored by the near complete lack of ground level organization among Team Romney supporters. they had fire, passion for their candidate...but no organization. their own ideology is central command driven


I disagree with the bolded portion. Behind the Republicans being firmly up their own ass and ignoring reality, the next biggest problem is that no one really liked Romney. They danced around nominating him during the primaries, but their motivation for voting for Romney had more to do with voting against Obama than supporting any of Romney's policies. Though the willingness to swallow all of Romney's bullshiat was a bit disheartening, but I guess that's what Republicans have come to.
 
2012-11-10 12:13:49 PM  
Also teabaggers, the religious right, and the fact that 60% of their platform boils down to, "Please point me toward the nearest corporate cock so I can suck it," and the other 40%, "Hrrrghghmmmgh, urrrrghghhh shllllrrrrk grrrrmmm urrrrrgghgh glerk."
 
2012-11-10 12:14:07 PM  
You know, once you harmonize the statistical quirks and unskew the results, this is actually a good thing for the GOP.
 
2012-11-10 12:14:15 PM  

LiberalWeenie: shastacola: This is the most delicious irony of the GOP's slow crawl toward irrelevance since their embrace of the southern strategy,They're forced to "dance with one that brung ya", and it's going to destroy them.

On the southern strategy: There was an article here not long ago saying Rmoney won the same percentage of the white vote that St. Reagan did in his 49-state landslide.

The southern strategy is dead.


the southern strategy still works for RATINGS. the question is for how much longer will clearchannel et al see a high enough profit margin using this strategy.

/every god dam day my co worker brings in a $3 bottle of windbags tea. HATE.
//so much hate.
 
2012-11-10 12:15:37 PM  
4.bp.blogspot.com

I always thought that what was funny about this cartoon wasn't that Rove (and many other conservatives) actually believed that repetition created reality, but that they believe that with enough repetition you can get away with acting like it's reality. This election makes me think the first explanation is actually true. I'm not sure if that's even funnier, or just kind of disturbing.
 
2012-11-10 12:16:01 PM  

LiberalWeenie: shastacola: This is the most delicious irony of the GOP's slow crawl toward irrelevance since their embrace of the southern strategy,They're forced to "dance with one that brung ya", and it's going to destroy them.

On the southern strategy: There was an article here not long ago saying Rmoney won the same percentage of the white vote that St. Reagan did in his 49-state landslide.

The southern strategy is dead.


If the southern strategy was dead, the GOP would lose less elections since they wouldn't have to go so far right to win primaries.
 
2012-11-10 12:18:08 PM  
I almost feel bad for GOP politicians these days. They absolutely have to pander to the worst people in the history of this country during the primaries, which makes it hard to move to the center during the national race. If you don't court the idiot brigade, you can't represent the party, and if you do, you can forget about appealing to moderates. I simply don't see how they can win. The whole "compassionate conservatism" thing was their only real way to bridge that gap, but that approach has been soiled forever by its association with GWB.

Meanwhile, democrats can play centrist or maybe slightly center left during the primaries and easily move to the center (if they aren't already there) during the national race. This is mostly the product of the fact that they're a mostly centrist party with a centrist constituency and centrist aims, which positions them nicely for national elections.

Meanwhile, Republicans are the kings of Alabama. Enjoy.
 
2012-11-10 12:18:09 PM  

LiberalWeenie: shastacola: This is the most delicious irony of the GOP's slow crawl toward irrelevance since their embrace of the southern strategy,They're forced to "dance with one that brung ya", and it's going to destroy them.

On the southern strategy: There was an article here not long ago saying Rmoney won the same percentage of the white vote that St. Reagan did in his 49-state landslide.

The southern strategy is dead.


I used the southern strategy as a historical root of the modern right wing extremist movement. Kowtowing to racist know nothings is what they did then and what they're doing now.
 
2012-11-10 12:18:21 PM  

Weaver95: MacWizard: The article's lede: "When Republicans perform a full autopsy on the 2012 elections, they'll realize they only deluded themselves"

Ain't gonna happen anytime soon. They ran an quick post-mortem and decided that the obvious problem was that they simply weren't conservative enough.

yeah but its early yet. i'm sure that right now a bunch of elite GOP inner circle members are sitting around a table somewhere and having a frank, no bullshiat discussion about what they're gonna do for 2014. they got their asses beat and they know it. propaganda aside, they KNOW they lost big and I very strongly suspect that it's shocking enough to force them to confront a reality they're not very fond of admitting exists in the first place.

strange times indeed for the GOP. they might actually be desperate enough to move back to the center.


Glad I refreshed the page, because I came to make this point. In fact, I read yesterday (did I see it on Fark?) a conservative op/ed piece that said the GOP needed to drop their opposition to immigration reform, abortion and same sex marriage like...tomorrow, and concentrate on fiscal responsibility and small government if they are to avoid catastrophic losses in 2014 and 2016. So, the introspection is going on, but it remains to be seen whether the party as a whole embraces it, or if the Teahadist wing calling for them to go even further rightward will prevail.
 
2012-11-10 12:21:00 PM  
I think Nate Silver accuracy did a lot more to damage and discredit the conservative media than anything else.

He used facts and science to predict the outcome.

They made shiat up, and said anyone who did not buy into their narrative was part of some conspiracy.

And were wrong.

Then, they acted all shocked when they were wrong.


At some point, people have to ask.... how many times are these people going to be wrong.
 
2012-11-10 12:21:09 PM  

FeedTheCollapse:

I disagree with the bolded portion. Behind the Republicans being firmly up their own ass and ignoring reality, the next biggest problem is that no one really liked Romney. They danced around nominating him during the primaries, but their motivation for voting for Romney had more to do with voting against Obama than supporting any of Romney's policies. Though the willingness to swallow all of Romney's bullshiat was a bit disheartening, but I guess that's what Republicans have come to.


then consider that they had a passionate hatred of Obama and channeled that into support for Romney.
 
2012-11-10 12:21:42 PM  

Weaver95: Limbaugh and his buddies are actually some of the best recruiters for the Democratic party in the history of ever.


It worked for me. I was the co-founder and inaugural president of my high school's Republican Club. First time I voted was to re-elect Bush in '04, then by '08 the social conservatives in the party had thoroughly alienated me and still in a haze of denial I voted Libertarian. By '12, no-longer in the right-wing echo chamber and unburdened by motivated reasoning, I voted a near-straight Democrat ticket.

Nowadays conservatives run away from arguments with me really quick once they're confronted with the fact I know their own bullshiat better than they do. Having been duped by it for so long, I'm also fairly contemptuous of it as a result. Though I'm terrible at creating converts like myself. I never know where to start. How do you explain to someone everything they think they know about history and politics is simply not true?

And hell, I'm a white male with a (modest) trust fund. If they're losing me they're in real trouble.
 
2012-11-10 12:23:17 PM  
Faux News and Limbaugh aren't just hurting their party, they're hurting the country. They have Americans openly talking about assassination and secession over a CENTRIST PRESIDENT. They are anti-American propagandists.
 
2012-11-10 12:23:40 PM  

Summoner101: LiberalWeenie: shastacola: This is the most delicious irony of the GOP's slow crawl toward irrelevance since their embrace of the southern strategy,They're forced to "dance with one that brung ya", and it's going to destroy them.

On the southern strategy: There was an article here not long ago saying Rmoney won the same percentage of the white vote that St. Reagan did in his 49-state landslide.

The southern strategy is dead.

If the southern strategy was dead, the GOP would lose less elections since they wouldn't have to go so far right to win primaries.


mmmm i would say the southern strategy is dead when it comes to exectuvie elections. at least the last two, who knows what horrors 2016 will bring.

but i can dam well almost gaurenntee you that the 2014 midterms will be a sweeping win by the repubs. even if they go back to the Teahadists.

not to be mean, but i feel like the focus on the individual, obanhammer or mittens, is easier for the youth, disenfranchised and 'minorities' to focus on and actually make decisions about. of note i read somewhere that the turn out for both parties was DOWN from 2008... but more so for the republicans. i mean they kinda got blown out of the water...

BUT

because midterms contain so many races, the media (con and otherwise) doesn't have as much of an overall effect. and since the majority of the repubs base actually does vote for the midterms... and the dems base not so much....

i am still standing by my theory that Mittens was an R version of John Kerry, to ensure that the House and Senate swing full R come 2014.
 
2012-11-10 12:24:15 PM  
I'm sorry, but no. The biggest threat to conservatism is bigots who want to be told that their Real Murica is being threatened by gays, brown people, Mooslims, vaginas and "gubbmint." If they weren't demanding to be shouted these threats at them, the media wouldn't be a problem. It would adapt and stop shrieking the same tired messages.

If the media is to blame, it's that they amplify something like the whole insurance-paying-for-birth-control thing to the point that conservatives who use birth control take up the "b-b-but religious freedom" chant because they imagine they're scoring points against the monstrous slave reparations soshulist tyranny.

But the core of the problem is insectoid paranoia.
 
2012-11-10 12:24:33 PM  

blastoh: I think Nate Silver accuracy did a lot more to damage and discredit the conservative media than anything else..


to my knowledge, Limbaugh has STILL not mentioned Nate Silver since election night. Remember that Limbaugh spent 6 weeks harshly berating Nate Silver and calling him all sorts of names. Rush 'proved' Nate Silver wrong, and did so at least 5 or 6 times. Now that the data is in and Nate Silver was proven right, Limbaugh hasn't said thing one about the guy.

it's interesting to watch.
 
2012-11-10 12:25:07 PM  

blastoh: I think Nate Silver accuracy did a lot more to damage and discredit the conservative media than anything else.

He used facts and science to predict the outcome.

They made shiat up, and said anyone who did not buy into their narrative was part of some conspiracy.

And were wrong.

Then, they acted all shocked when they were wrong.


At some point, people have to ask.... how many times are these people going to be wrong.


That's easy: every time they speak.
 
2012-11-10 12:25:17 PM  

blastoh: At some point, people have to ask.... how many times are these people going to be wrong.


You're giving some people too much credit. For many people, our political system has turned in to a sporting event. Instead of analyzing the strengths and weaknesses of both sides and choosing to support the candidate more aligned with your ideals, people choose their candidates because of the team they play on no matter how they play.
 
2012-11-10 12:28:18 PM  
This is a comforting claim that will bounce around the left wing echo chamber for a while, but it is no more true than the "unskewed polls" thing.

American'S problem is it doesn't like inconvenient truth.
 
2012-11-10 12:28:37 PM  

thekilt04: Summoner101: LiberalWeenie: shastacola: This is the most delicious irony of the GOP's slow crawl toward irrelevance since their embrace of the southern strategy,They're forced to "dance with one that brung ya", and it's going to destroy them.

On the southern strategy: There was an article here not long ago saying Rmoney won the same percentage of the white vote that St. Reagan did in his 49-state landslide.

The southern strategy is dead.

If the southern strategy was dead, the GOP would lose less elections since they wouldn't have to go so far right to win primaries.

mmmm i would say the southern strategy is dead when it comes to exectuvie elections. at least the last two, who knows what horrors 2016 will bring.

but i can dam well almost gaurenntee you that the 2014 midterms will be a sweeping win by the repubs. even if they go back to the Teahadists.

not to be mean, but i feel like the focus on the individual, obanhammer or mittens, is easier for the youth, disenfranchised and 'minorities' to focus on and actually make decisions about. of note i read somewhere that the turn out for both parties was DOWN from 2008... but more so for the republicans. i mean they kinda got blown out of the water...

BUT

because midterms contain so many races, the media (con and otherwise) doesn't have as much of an overall effect. and since the majority of the repubs base actually does vote for the midterms... and the dems base not so much....

i am still standing by my theory that Mittens was an R version of John Kerry, to ensure that the House and Senate swing full R come 2014.


This was almost the exact argument for the elections in 2010, and even though the GOP picked up the house, their current strategy lost them the almost sure take of the Senate. Considering the demographics are only getting worse for the GOP, I'm going to say you'll need a lot more evidence aside from conjecture for me to believe you.
 
2012-11-10 12:29:08 PM  

Kibbler: I'm sorry, but no. The biggest threat to conservatism is bigots who want to be told that their Real Murica is being threatened by gays, brown people, Mooslims, vaginas and "gubbmint." If they weren't demanding to be shouted these threats at them, the media wouldn't be a problem. It would adapt and stop shrieking the same tired messages.

If the media is to blame, it's that they amplify something like the whole insurance-paying-for-birth-control thing to the point that conservatives who use birth control take up the "b-b-but religious freedom" chant because they imagine they're scoring points against the monstrous slave reparations soshulist tyranny.

But the core of the problem is insectoid paranoia.



ready for this? the idea that the GOVERNMENT should be doing ANYTHING to those groups? liberal. not Liberal, not libreal not lirealbral... liberal.

/if yer toast is yer life, and yer butter is the gob'ment... then how do you apply yer butter?
//also the birth control ranting was moreso to justify what windbrah had said to fluke.
///its the insurance companies that pay for it anyways...
 
2012-11-10 12:29:53 PM  
Well duh.

But that's just the symptom
 
2012-11-10 12:31:33 PM  

Weaver95: yeah but its early yet. i'm sure that right now a bunch of elite GOP inner circle members are sitting around a table somewhere and having a frank, no bullshiat discussion about what they're gonna do for 2014. they got their asses beat and they know it. propaganda aside, they KNOW they lost big and I very strongly suspect that it's shocking enough to force them to confront a reality they're not very fond of admitting exists in the first place.

strange times indeed for the GOP. they might actually be desperate enough to move back to the center.


I'm sure you're right with the first part, that the inner circle is debating this. But I'm not so sure that an inner circle is actually in control of the party anymore. The Tea Party has had enough success in the primaries against establishment backed candidates that it will be tough to take charge again. It's really the Republican party's fault for being desperate enough for votes to let the extremists have the driver's seat, but now we all have to deal with the loss of moderates. Do you really think that Rush, Beck, and Fox followers will willingly brought back to the center, just because it's better for the party?

Too many people are convinced that Romney's problem was not being conservative enough, when it's probably more likely he was too tainted with the extreme conservative stink he had to wallow in to win the primary.
 
2012-11-10 12:32:25 PM  

Summoner101: thekilt04: Summoner101: LiberalWeenie: shastacola: This is the most delicious irony of the GOP's slow crawl toward irrelevance since their embrace of the southern strategy,They're forced to "dance with one that brung ya", and it's going to destroy them.

On the southern strategy: There was an article here not long ago saying Rmoney won the same percentage of the white vote that St. Reagan did in his 49-state landslide.

The southern strategy is dead.

If the southern strategy was dead, the GOP would lose less elections since they wouldn't have to go so far right to win primaries.

mmmm i would say the southern strategy is dead when it comes to exectuvie elections. at least the last two, who knows what horrors 2016 will bring.

but i can dam well almost gaurenntee you that the 2014 midterms will be a sweeping win by the repubs. even if they go back to the Teahadists.

not to be mean, but i feel like the focus on the individual, obanhammer or mittens, is easier for the youth, disenfranchised and 'minorities' to focus on and actually make decisions about. of note i read somewhere that the turn out for both parties was DOWN from 2008... but more so for the republicans. i mean they kinda got blown out of the water...

BUT

because midterms contain so many races, the media (con and otherwise) doesn't have as much of an overall effect. and since the majority of the repubs base actually does vote for the midterms... and the dems base not so much....

i am still standing by my theory that Mittens was an R version of John Kerry, to ensure that the House and Senate swing full R come 2014.

This was almost the exact argument for the elections in 2010, and even though the GOP picked up the house, their current strategy lost them the almost sure take of the Senate. Considering the demographics are only getting worse for the GOP, I'm going to say you'll need a lot more evidence aside from conjecture for me to believe you.


mmm the senate will loose some Ds. either through gerrymandering or scandel. but i understand your point i think... the senate will not go to 61 Rs. maybe the house is where this is more so amplified? I see the Rs getting near a super majority in the house.... you?

/also, how do you like the trending of more Independents in the Senate?
 
2012-11-10 12:33:50 PM  

FloydA: i upped my meds-up yours: It could be that they'll just go full entertainment, dop the pretense of news analysis and do nothing but crazy Limbovian / Beckesque rant sauce. This would be win-win for the stupids and the rest of us, as anyone with half a brain tunes it out.

Rush or Beck can't turn a rant into an email campaign to Congress these days; their shows are meant for potato-chip-and-bourbon jack-off sessions, and their listeners know it.

Hey now, that's over the line. What's wrong with potato chips, bourbon, and jacking off?


Yeah! I'm doing all three as I read this thread, and what's wrong with that?!

/well, actually only two of the three
//but which two . . . ?
 
2012-11-10 12:35:14 PM  

Stone Meadow: Weaver95: MacWizard: The article's lede: "When Republicans perform a full autopsy on the 2012 elections, they'll realize they only deluded themselves"

Ain't gonna happen anytime soon. They ran an quick post-mortem and decided that the obvious problem was that they simply weren't conservative enough.

yeah but its early yet. i'm sure that right now a bunch of elite GOP inner circle members are sitting around a table somewhere and having a frank, no bullshiat discussion about what they're gonna do for 2014. they got their asses beat and they know it. propaganda aside, they KNOW they lost big and I very strongly suspect that it's shocking enough to force them to confront a reality they're not very fond of admitting exists in the first place.

strange times indeed for the GOP. they might actually be desperate enough to move back to the center.

Glad I refreshed the page, because I came to make this point. In fact, I read yesterday (did I see it on Fark?) a conservative op/ed piece that said the GOP needed to drop their opposition to immigration reform, abortion and same sex marriage like...tomorrow, and concentrate on fiscal responsibility and small government if they are to avoid catastrophic losses in 2014 and 2016. So, the introspection is going on, but it remains to be seen whether the party as a whole embraces it, or if the Teahadist wing calling for them to go even further rightward will prevail.


Like many addicts, you have to hit bottom before you can start to change. The GOP has not hit bottom. Even now they are saying the problem isn't in their polices, it's in the messaging. They honestly believe that if they can just find the right notes, the people will suddenly see the light.

No, I don't think the GOP will make any substantial changes for at least one more presidential cycle. And boy howdy, are we going to be in for a show when they try to wean themselves off of the tea baggers and evangelicals.
 
2012-11-10 12:37:37 PM  

blastoh: At some point, people have to ask.... how many times are these people going to be wrong.


A: every time
 
2012-11-10 12:38:14 PM  

Erix:
I'm sure you're right with the first part, that the inner circle is debating this. But I'm not so sure that an inner circle is actually in control of the party anymore. The Tea Party has had enough success in the primaries against establishment backed candidates that it will be tough to take charge again. It's really the Republican party's fault for being desperate enough for votes to let the extremists have the driver's seat, but now we all have to deal with the loss of moderates. Do you really think that Rush, Beck, and Fox followers will willingly brought back to the center, just because it's better for the party?

Too many people are convinced that Romney's problem was not being conservative enough, when it's probably more likely he was too tainted with the extreme conservative stink he had to wallow in to win the primary.


Oh I don't know what the end result of this electoral beat down is going to be for the Republicans. the only thing i'm certain of is that the GOP elites are no doubt pondering their future and that they probably do not like their options.
 
2012-11-10 12:38:16 PM  

thekilt04: Summoner101: thekilt04: Summoner101: LiberalWeenie: shastacola: This is the most delicious irony of the GOP's slow crawl toward irrelevance since their embrace of the southern strategy,They're forced to "dance with one that brung ya", and it's going to destroy them.

On the southern strategy: There was an article here not long ago saying Rmoney won the same percentage of the white vote that St. Reagan did in his 49-state landslide.

The southern strategy is dead.

If the southern strategy was dead, the GOP would lose less elections since they wouldn't have to go so far right to win primaries.

mmmm i would say the southern strategy is dead when it comes to exectuvie elections. at least the last two, who knows what horrors 2016 will bring.

but i can dam well almost gaurenntee you that the 2014 midterms will be a sweeping win by the repubs. even if they go back to the Teahadists.

not to be mean, but i feel like the focus on the individual, obanhammer or mittens, is easier for the youth, disenfranchised and 'minorities' to focus on and actually make decisions about. of note i read somewhere that the turn out for both parties was DOWN from 2008... but more so for the republicans. i mean they kinda got blown out of the water...

BUT

because midterms contain so many races, the media (con and otherwise) doesn't have as much of an overall effect. and since the majority of the repubs base actually does vote for the midterms... and the dems base not so much....

i am still standing by my theory that Mittens was an R version of John Kerry, to ensure that the House and Senate swing full R come 2014.

This was almost the exact argument for the elections in 2010, and even though the GOP picked up the house, their current strategy lost them the almost sure take of the Senate. Considering the demographics are only getting worse for the GOP, I'm going to say you'll need a lot more evidence aside from conjecture for me to believe you.

mmm the senate will loose some Ds. eith ...


It all depends. If the Dems can have the same ground game in 2014 that they had this year, the House could be in play considering the Dems were able to contest many seats that were thought to be safe. The GOP can have some pick ups in the Senate, since 2014 is another year where Dems have more contested seats than the GOP, but, considering they were supposed to have pick ups this year and actually lost two seats, that remains to be seen.

The current iteration of the GOP only wins elections because their base happens to be the ones that show up. Since their base is also dying off, that advantage is slowly eroding make each cycle harder and harder to win. As far as 2014, they might make pick ups, the minority party generally does in mid terms. I doubt it will be anything enough to change the status quo.
 
2012-11-10 12:39:47 PM  

thekilt04: mmm the senate will loose some Ds. either through gerrymandering or scandel. but i understand your point i think... the senate will not go to 61 Rs. maybe the house is where this is more so amplified? I see the Rs getting near a super majority in the house.... you?


Even if the tea partiers continue knocking out establishment Republicans? Remember Sharon Angle and Christine O'Donnell lost in 2010. Even if the economy is a lot better and an "are you better off than you were x years ago" argument would be ridiculous?
 
2012-11-10 12:41:07 PM  

Le Bomb Suprize: Like many addicts, you have to hit bottom before you can start to change. The GOP has not hit bottom. Even now they are saying the problem isn't in their polices, it's in the messaging. They honestly believe that if they can just find the right notes, the people will suddenly see the light.


THIS.

I've heard from a couple of Republicans. The message was: "I can't believe we just re-hired this guy. He admitted that he FAILED. We re-hired him. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY?"

Two points.

1. The word "re-hired" keeps popping up. They imagine themselves as "job creators" and speak accordingly. They live in a fantasy world. It's an election, nitwits, you are not running a corporation, you are not a majority stockholder. Democratic election.

2. "If you don't vote the way I do, you are WRONG FOR MURICA."

Nothing whatsoever has been learned. They still think they just haven't found the right way to get through to Real Muricans. They think that, if they can convince us that only pregnant whores claim rape, and brown people are lazy, and all taxes paid by "job creators" are criminal, and Mooslims are plotting to murder us in our beds, we will vote for the derp.

Fanatically convinced. I don't think the people I'm referring to will ever change, even a tiny bit.
 
2012-11-10 12:41:10 PM  

FloydA: What's wrong with potato chips, bourbon, and jacking off?


Sounds like a typical morning around here.
 
2012-11-10 12:41:20 PM  

thekilt04: mmm the senate will loose some Ds. either through gerrymandering or scandel. but i understand your point i think... the senate will not go to 61 Rs. maybe the house is where this is more so amplified? I see the Rs getting near a super majority in the house.... you?


How does one gerrymander the Senate?
 
2012-11-10 12:43:01 PM  

dartben: thekilt04: mmm the senate will loose some Ds. either through gerrymandering or scandel. but i understand your point i think... the senate will not go to 61 Rs. maybe the house is where this is more so amplified? I see the Rs getting near a super majority in the house.... you?

How does one gerrymander the Senate?


CONGRATULATIONS YOU HAVE JUST WON THE INTERNETS
 
2012-11-10 12:44:01 PM  

i upped my meds-up yours: It could be that they'll just go full entertainment, dop the pretense of news analysis and do nothing but crazy Limbovian / Beckesque rant sauce. This would be win-win for the stupids and the rest of us, as anyone with half a brain tunes it out.

Rush or Beck can't turn a rant into an email campaign to Congress these days; their shows are meant for potato-chip-and-bourbon jack-off sessions, and their listeners know it.


You leave bourbon out of this. Bourbon did nothing to you. It's more like a potato-chips and bud light jack-off session.
 
2012-11-10 12:44:36 PM  

Stone Meadow: I read yesterday (did I see it on Fark?) a conservative op/ed piece that said the GOP needed to drop their opposition to immigration reform, abortion and same sex marriage like...tomorrow, and concentrate on fiscal responsibility and small government if they are to avoid catastrophic losses in 2014 and 2016.


Yeah, I think it was Boortz saying that. The problem is motivation, and how people will view their sudden change of heart. Democrats support immigration reform because they see it as a fundamental human rights issue- that if you are obeying the law, working hard, and playing by the rules, then the fact that you crossed an imaginary line on a map should be irrelevant. They see the very real human cost of breaking up families to send immigrants back to their home country as unacceptable. The GOP seem to think that accepting immigration reform just to take the issue off the table, without really accepting the underlying premise of immigration reform will somehow fly with Latinos. We'll see.

Gay marriage is pretty much the same thing- people will see that any change in the GOP position isn't because of a change of heart, but only a cynical adjustment to remove a negative from their books.

And I don't see them ever changing on abortion - their religious right base would never allow it.
 
2012-11-10 12:44:43 PM  

dartben: thekilt04: mmm the senate will loose some Ds. either through gerrymandering or scandel. but i understand your point i think... the senate will not go to 61 Rs. maybe the house is where this is more so amplified? I see the Rs getting near a super majority in the house.... you?

How does one gerrymander the Senate?


It was a lot easier back when the states elected the senators.
 
2012-11-10 12:44:43 PM  
I wonder how many Republican voters who kept on hearing people like Rush or Fox news saying that Romney was going to win by a gigantic landslide and that he was going to pummel Obama thought to themselves, "Well, if he's going to win by that much then he really doesn't need my vote." And then didn't vote.
 
2012-11-10 12:44:53 PM  

Weaver95: The next four years will be boom times for conservative media; it's always good for business when your enemies are in power. They will continue to infuriate liberals

I don't think 'infuriate' is the right word. 'slightly amuse' might be better. Limbaugh and his buddies are actually some of the best recruiters for the Democratic party in the history of ever. especially in light of the recent elections - the right wing media is training rank and file Republicans to fail. look, it's a simple fact of life that if you do not understand your opponent then your opponent is going to win. the Democrats understand the GOP very well...we know what they are, we know their goals, we know how they operate and we can plan effectively to beat them in an election...this was proved on election day. But the GOP don't sit down and have a hard headed realistic analysis of their own strengths and weaknesses, let alone a clear view of the Democratic party. they listen to their own propaganda, which tells them that everyone not GOP is corrupt, immoral and weak. The GOP is on the side of GOD, their views are superior, and that everyone is living in a 'christian nation' and deep down that everyone is actually a flag waving bible thumping christian just waiting to vote for a Republican leadership. the Republicans don't stop and consider what works for them and what doesn't. they consider compromise a weakness, and show contempt for even those among their own who want to find a way to work with anyone outside the GOP echo chamber.

Basically, the Republican party teaches their rank and file to lose. if you don't respect what your opponent can do, then you cannot plan an effective strategy to deal with their tactics. if you have contempt for everyone who is different, it blinds you to their potential that's why I lurve Rush Limbaugh - he's killing the GOP and doesn't know it. I don't want to shut him down...I want him right where he's at, doing exactly what he's doing. Dear gods ...


It's less "understanding your enemy" (which does help, of course) and more that no matter WHAT they do, WHAT is going on, or WHAT reality is: they're winning. It's the same hypocritical mentality that allows them to lash out at anyone who dares suggest American isn't the greatest country of all time for all time while simultaneously putting forth the narrative that it's on the precipice of being completely obliterated by things like socialized medicine or housing terrorists on domestic soil. This also curtails anything like improving the country, because in order to improve it, you tacitly admit that it's not already perfect. THAT is their greatest weakness.
 
2012-11-10 12:46:01 PM  

Weaver95: The next four years will be boom times for conservative media; it's always good for business when your enemies are in power. They will continue to infuriate liberals

I don't think 'infuriate' is the right word. 'slightly amuse' might be better. Limbaugh and his buddies are actually some of the best recruiters for the Democratic party in the history of ever. especially in light of the recent elections - the right wing media is training rank and file Republicans to fail. look, it's a simple fact of life that if you do not understand your opponent then your opponent is going to win. the Democrats understand the GOP very well...we know what they are, we know their goals, we know how they operate and we can plan effectively to beat them in an election...this was proved on election day. But the GOP don't sit down and have a hard headed realistic analysis of their own strengths and weaknesses, let alone a clear view of the Democratic party. they listen to their own propaganda, which tells them that everyone not GOP is corrupt, immoral and weak. The GOP is on the side of GOD, their views are superior, and that everyone is living in a 'christian nation' and deep down that everyone is actually a flag waving bible thumping christian just waiting to vote for a Republican leadership. the Republicans don't stop and consider what works for them and what doesn't. they consider compromise a weakness, and show contempt for even those among their own who want to find a way to work with anyone outside the GOP echo chamber.

Basically, the Republican party teaches their rank and file to lose. if you don't respect what your opponent can do, then you cannot plan an effective strategy to deal with their tactics. if you have contempt for everyone who is different, it blinds you to their potential that's why I lurve Rush Limbaugh - he's killing the GOP and doesn't know it. I don't want to shut him down...I want him right where he's at, doing exactly what he's doing. Dear gods ...


Oh, I'm sure Rush Limbaugh knows exactly what he's doing. To his party, and to his nation. He just doesn't care. As long as the checks keep rolling in, he's perfectly OK with it.

And that's the problem with trusting in the free market for everything. If someone can make more money by taking a shortcut, they'll take it, even if it means greater harm for everybody around them.
 
2012-11-10 12:47:48 PM  

dartben: thekilt04: mmm the senate will loose some Ds. either through gerrymandering or scandel. but i understand your point i think... the senate will not go to 61 Rs. maybe the house is where this is more so amplified? I see the Rs getting near a super majority in the house.... you?

How does one gerrymander the Senate?


Have you seen the shape of Maryland?

(Kidding!)
 
2012-11-10 12:48:21 PM  

soaboutthat: i upped my meds-up yours: It could be that they'll just go full entertainment, dop the pretense of news analysis and do nothing but crazy Limbovian / Beckesque rant sauce. This would be win-win for the stupids and the rest of us, as anyone with half a brain tunes it out.

Rush or Beck can't turn a rant into an email campaign to Congress these days; their shows are meant for potato-chip-and-bourbon jack-off sessions, and their listeners know it.

You leave bourbon out of this. Bourbon did nothing to you. It's more like a potato-chips and bud light jack-off session.


What is wrong with that?
 
2012-11-10 12:49:05 PM  

Weaver95: talk to your friend. just be aware that transitioning from the echo chamber to reality can be a very jarring experience.


Maybe, but you have to remember that this "echo chamber" is a fairly recent advent. Yes, Limbaugh has been on the air as far as anyone can remember, but Fox, the chief offender, has only been around since the late 90s IIRC - and didn't fully jump the shark until years after that. My point is that our friends and family recall a time when NBC Headline News and the NYT weren't enemies. They consumed the media the rest of us did, and our disagreements were typically grounded in reality. Familiarity with sane media will lessen the shock, like getting reacquainted with an old friend you had a falling out with years ago.

My father - always a conservative - had a 20+ year subscription to Time before FOX convinced him it was evil. While visiting one Christmas, I asked if he had a copy of Time or even the local newspaper around (I had to use the john). I'll never forget the proud, positively beaming look on his face when he informed me that his home was now "liberal media-free." It blew my mind. This is the same man who had read the magazine for decades, and had suddenly performed an about-face. His opinions had not changed, but his perception of the media did. Now the only true source of information is Fox News and The Blaze. And now you know why I always take some form of barbiturate with me when I visit, because we can't even eat Thanksgiving dinner without Fox blaring from the living room.

While my father is free to make his own decisions, I hold Fox News responsible for poising the political well. The network is pure evil, and it's maddening to see people like Hanni-douche host hour-long specials on "media bias." Conservative projection at its finest. And people like my dad are watching it like a football game, literally cheering. "Go get 'em, Sean!"

/goddammitsomuch
 
2012-11-10 12:49:20 PM  

Dinki:
And I don't see them ever changing on abortion - their religious right base would never allow it.


Bush did little about abortion, other than blather from time to time. Concern about abortion fades into the background when there's an R in the White House. Especially if he's pale. And has kicked off a hideous oil war that is an obvious sham, and needs to be camoflauged.

Same thing for deficits, debt, gay marriage, immigration, pretty much everything.

Iran-Contra. Iraq. I shudder (no exaggeration) to imagine the hideous crime the next one will commit to keep our attention away from the issues. At least war with Iran has to wait four years.
 
2012-11-10 12:49:56 PM  

Summoner101: You have to give the GOP some credit, they built their echo chamber with some outstanding resilience.

Unfortunately, they'll end up like Porky from Mother 3.

/I'm a geek, sue me


That is awesome.
 
2012-11-10 12:50:20 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Oh, I'm sure Rush Limbaugh knows exactly what he's doing. To his party, and to his nation. He just doesn't care. As long as the checks keep rolling in, he's perfectly OK with it.

And that's the problem with trusting in the free market for everything. If someone can make more money by taking a shortcut, they'll take it, even if it means greater harm for everybody around them. .


yeah, but i'm not going to speculate on Limbaugh's end goals (which I suspect probably have more to do with ego than money but we'll never really know for sure) and just deal with the fact that he's essentially destroying the GOP from within. By preventing the GOP rank and file from seriously considering alternative solutions to their problems, he locks them into a self destructive course of action that ultimately dooms the party and smashes any hope of Republican victory.

I hope Limbaugh stays right where he's at, and keeps doing what he's doing.
 
2012-11-10 12:52:36 PM  

epoch: Summoner101: You have to give the GOP some credit, they built their echo chamber with some outstanding resilience.

Unfortunately, they'll end up like Porky from Mother 3.

/I'm a geek, sue me

That is awesome.


Nothing is obscure on Fark!
 
2012-11-10 12:52:44 PM  

12349876: thekilt04: mmm the senate will loose some Ds. either through gerrymandering or scandel. but i understand your point i think... the senate will not go to 61 Rs. maybe the house is where this is more so amplified? I see the Rs getting near a super majority in the house.... you?

Even if the tea partiers continue knocking out establishment Republicans? Remember Sharon Angle and Christine O'Donnell lost in 2010. Even if the economy is a lot better and an "are you better off than you were x years ago" argument would be ridiculous?


the teahadists come in two flavors. One: batshiat crazy foaming out the mouth i WANT THE GOBM'ENT TO SECURE MY FALSE SENSE OF REALITY

Two: the quite ones. those who ditched it for the coffee or libertarian party during this election.

Now let me have my false sense of reality and pretend the second comeback moreso then the first.

/also... you wouldn't put it past the GOP to put one or two gaureenteed teatards for the 'MSM' to spot light... while stealthly teatards slip in... right?

Summoner101:

"It all depends. If the Dems can have the same ground game in 2014 that they had this year..."

This is my point/thought- they won't have the same ground game because their MSM won't be focusing on 'defending' obummer, the only way you'll know about your race is IF you pay attention to your local races. Not many people do that... that can predictably vote D. Meanwhile, everyone is still LITERALLY drinking the winbrah brand tea aid.

"considering they were supposed to have pick ups this year and actually lost two seats, that remains to be seen.

My thinking tells me that the GOPs turn out was weaksauce, and the Dems overall was kick ass. i think it hinges not nessesarally on voter enthusiams, but maybe empathy.

"The current iteration of the GOP only wins elections because their base happens to be the ones that show up."

exactly.

"Since their base is also dying off" -you saw all the young sad white people right?

"the minority party generally does in mid terms. I doubt it will be anything enough to change the status quo."

My thoughts exactamundo.
 
2012-11-10 12:54:19 PM  

Kibbler: Dinki:
And I don't see them ever changing on abortion - their religious right base would never allow it.

Bush did little about abortion, other than blather from time to time. Concern about abortion fades into the background when there's an R in the White House. Especially if he's pale. And has kicked off a hideous oil war that is an obvious sham, and needs to be camoflauged.

Same thing for deficits, debt, gay marriage, immigration, pretty much everything.

Iran-Contra. Iraq. I shudder (no exaggeration) to imagine the hideous crime the next one will commit to keep our attention away from the issues. At least war with Iran has to wait four years.


wana bet?
 
2012-11-10 12:54:45 PM  
I love these articles because they will cause the derpers to cling to their propaganda even harder. It's like when you tell your teenage daughter she needs to break up with her boyfriend because he's too much of a rebel who's gonna get her in trouble. She's just gonna stamp her feet, throw a tantrum, and devote even more time to him just to spite you.

In the weeks leading up to the election I got to laugh at all my derpy cousin's fb posts about an upcoming Romney landslide, followed by articles from the Blaze saying, "Sure Obama said it was an act of terrorism, BUT HE DIDN'T USE A CAPITAL T. TIME FOR IMPEACHMENT!"

Articles like this aren't gonna get him to look outside his echo chamber. It's going to make him derp even harder in protest.
 
2012-11-10 12:55:06 PM  

thekilt04: but i can dam well almost gaurenntee you that the 2014 midterms will be a sweeping win by the repubs


Doubtful. The GOP is either going to vote for immigration reform that favors amnesty for illegal immigrants to get future latino votes or they're going to have to stick with the tea party crowd who will revolt if they don't support their anti immigrant wishes.
The economy will improve by 2014 and voters will know by then that Obama care wasn't the end of the world as we know it.Also, the dems hav found their voting base and know who they have to get to the polls.
 
2012-11-10 12:56:34 PM  

mekki: I wonder how many Republican voters who kept on hearing people like Rush or Fox news saying that Romney was going to win by a gigantic landslide and that he was going to pummel Obama thought to themselves, "Well, if he's going to win by that much then he really doesn't need my vote." And then didn't vote.



I think the GOPers still voted -- there was a lot of revenge/protest voting going on with the Right in this election, to really stick it to the President. I don't think the GOP's enthusiasm was overestimated or that they were overconfident and stayed home; I think the GOP just heavily underestimated the level of enthusiasm from the DEMS. They convinced themselves that everyone hated Obama so much that even the Democrats were unmotivated, and that formed the basis for their election predictions -- that Obama had supporters, but they weren't going to show up.
 
2012-11-10 12:58:00 PM  

swahnhennessy: Much like the GOP's demographic of angry old white guys is dying out, so too is their media demographic of angry old gullible white guys. Sooner or later what remains of their audience is going to be too smart to fall for the lies and manufactured outrage, and wise up to the fact that they're being used.


I've been seeing a lot of old angry white guy that is going to die out narrative and I'm not so sure. The Tea Party and evangelicals also appear to have been working in such local areas such as the school boards. They seem to have a push there for no critical thinking and no science that's not part of the Prosperity Gospel. Intellectual pursuit is a bad thing in that mindset and if you are raised in that fashion, I don't see the echo chamber ever going away. I just don't see that it will matter if people who raised to be easily conned don't happen to all be lily white anymore.
 
2012-11-10 12:59:15 PM  

thekilt04: you saw all the young sad white people right


Some black people voted for Romney, too. That doesn't mean they're a reliable demographic for the GOP.

/While Obama led the youth less than he did in '08, he still got their vote by 24 points. That's a greater margin than Obama lead Romney with women, though not as much as racial minorities.
 
2012-11-10 12:59:22 PM  
I'm getting tired of you people bad mouthing the good name of jerking off.
 
2012-11-10 12:59:25 PM  

shastacola: thekilt04: but i can dam well almost gaurenntee you that the 2014 midterms will be a sweeping win by the repubs

Doubtful. The GOP is either going to vote for immigration reform that favors amnesty for illegal immigrants to get future latino votes or they're going to have to stick with the tea party crowd who will revolt if they don't support their anti immigrant wishes.
The economy will improve by 2014 and voters will know by then that Obama care wasn't the end of the world as we know it.Also, the dems hav found their voting base and know who they have to get to the polls.


they will have to stop throwing their candidate on air covered in john boner's ompa loompa make up.

i don't know if you can be so sure of the economy. look at drudge. windbags also ranting about companies all over america laying of workers for the oncomming obamacolypse. they have held out so far... whats another 2 years?
 
2012-11-10 01:00:38 PM  

Cargo: FloydA: i upped my meds-up yours: It could be that they'll just go full entertainment, dop the pretense of news analysis and do nothing but crazy Limbovian / Beckesque rant sauce. This would be win-win for the stupids and the rest of us, as anyone with half a brain tunes it out.

Rush or Beck can't turn a rant into an email campaign to Congress these days; their shows are meant for potato-chip-and-bourbon jack-off sessions, and their listeners know it.

Hey now, that's over the line. What's wrong with potato chips, bourbon, and jacking off?

Yeah! I'm doing all three as I read this thread, and what's wrong with that?!


It could be a problem if you don't lick your fingers enough and get too much salt in the lube. Or if you're eating spicy habanero chips. That could go bad real fast.
 
2012-11-10 01:01:31 PM  

Cargo:
Yeah! I'm doing all three as I read this thread, and what's wrong with that?!

/well, actually only two of the three
//but which two . . . ?


I didn't have any bourbon in the house either.
 
2012-11-10 01:02:41 PM  
MSNBC just called Florida for Obama. that's officially a 'landslide victory' for Obama.
 
2012-11-10 01:03:16 PM  
Really, Romney only lost Washington, Colorado, and California due to casual drug use ballots. I think it's pretty clear that when those states realize that they can't do what they want because of the federal government, those voters will be coming back to small government republicans in droves.
 
2012-11-10 01:05:40 PM  

Weaver95: MSNBC just called Florida for Obama. that's officially a 'landslide victory' for Obama.


Has anyone called the West race yet?
 
2012-11-10 01:05:57 PM  

Summoner101: thekilt04: you saw all the young sad white people right

Some black people voted for Romney, too. That doesn't mean they're a reliable demographic for the GOP.

/While Obama led the youth less than he did in '08, he still got their vote by 24 points. That's a greater margin than Obama lead Romney with women, though not as much as racial minorities.


i think windbags answer would be something akin to "those youth hadn't experiance the WREAL WHROLD YET! Soon as they get mugged the'll be CONSERVATIVES FOR LIFE"

and didn't bush win with 40 something percent of the latino vote? what happens when govna gotcha rick perry propses the amnestiy/immigration reform? Gets fed money to build that fence... using legal AMERI-mehicans... texas econ booms further.. latinos laugh to the bank/polls... tehas still rojo senor.

/i think its more fun that mittens got only 78% of the mormon vote.
 
2012-11-10 01:07:59 PM  

thekilt04: windbags also ranting about companies all over america laying of workers for the oncomming obamacolypse. they have held out so far... whats another 2 years


The problem is that there really has to be an obamacolypse and there isn't going to be one. "What's another 2 years", well, if they're smart,it's knowing that business abhors a vacuum as much as politics, and they can get their heads out of their asses or lose to entrepenuers who won't be so stupid.
 
2012-11-10 01:08:01 PM  

swahnhennessy: Much like the GOP's demographic of angry old white guys is dying out, so too is their media demographic of angry old gullible white guys. Sooner or later what remains of their audience is going to be too smart to fall for the lies and manufactured outrage, and wise up to the fact that they're being used.

No doubt the noise will continue, at least for a while longer, but if the GOP has any hope of surviving they need to come straight with potential voters and not just tap into anger that they help manufacture. 2010 gave them false hope for that, but with each passing year they lose more and more adherents. And not just to the grave. After a while, even the most ignorant of consumers will realize that what FOX is telling him just doesn't jibe with reality, no matter how much he has come to want it to.


upload.wikimedia.org

Laughs at your silly optimism
 
2012-11-10 01:08:24 PM  

FloydA: Cargo: FloydA: i upped my meds-up yours: It could be that they'll just go full entertainment, dop the pretense of news analysis and do nothing but crazy Limbovian / Beckesque rant sauce. This would be win-win for the stupids and the rest of us, as anyone with half a brain tunes it out.

Rush or Beck can't turn a rant into an email campaign to Congress these days; their shows are meant for potato-chip-and-bourbon jack-off sessions, and their listeners know it.

Hey now, that's over the line. What's wrong with potato chips, bourbon, and jacking off?

Yeah! I'm doing all three as I read this thread, and what's wrong with that?!


It could be a problem if you don't lick your fingers enough and get too much salt in the lube. Or if you're eating spicy habanero chips. That could go bad real fast.



A popular misconception.

And salty lube? Why, that's a perfect after-fap snack!
 
2012-11-10 01:08:34 PM  

Erix: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 255x328]

I always thought that what was funny about this cartoon wasn't that Rove (and many other conservatives) actually believed that repetition created reality, but that they believe that with enough repetition you can get away with acting like it's reality. This election makes me think the first explanation is actually true. I'm not sure if that's even funnier, or just kind of disturbing.


That cartoon means more now than it ever has. Political junkies always knew its meaning, but after Roves melt-down on national TV, even low-information voters can look at it and get the joke.
 
2012-11-10 01:09:13 PM  

Summoner101: Weaver95: MSNBC just called Florida for Obama. that's officially a 'landslide victory' for Obama.

Has anyone called the West race yet?


dunno, I didn't hear.
 
2012-11-10 01:10:46 PM  
It has been for a while now. Rush Limbaugh has a huge part of the base convinced that they can only vote for a candidate that can't get elected.
 
2012-11-10 01:11:43 PM  
It was an eye-opener for me when I realized that "conservative truth" had diverged significantly from actual facts. It's really hard to have an argument with someone - or at least a useful argument - when they start with assumptions quite at odds with reality. How can I argue that the loss of so many government jobs over the last 4 years has offset much of the gains in private employment, when he can't actually wrap his head around the fact that Xa < Xb. I think it's become simply a religious thing for them, while religious beliefs are mostly harmless (an accountant doesn't need to accept that transubstantiation is primie facie false, unless he tries to change CapEx into OpEx to misstate asset value - yet, of course, Bernie Ebbers *was* a devout christian, and did attempt to perform the same miracle, failed, and caused one of the largest corporate scandals in history, for which he is still rotting in prison)

Ok, maybe my hypoethesis just disproved itself. Maybe instead of making people piss in a bottle to see what they smoke before hiring them, we should give them a bottle of piss, and ask them if they'll drink it, after a priest affirms that it's been changed into a nice chardonnay?
 
2012-11-10 01:12:48 PM  

snowshovel: Really, Romney only lost Washington, Colorado, and California due to casual drug use ballots. I think it's pretty clear that when those states realize that they can't do what they want because of the federal government, those voters will be coming back to small government republicans in droves.


You keep telling yourself that for the next 20 years.

/20 years equals how long I think it will take for the GOP to wake up and fix their problems
 
2012-11-10 01:13:01 PM  
"I mean, what is their position?" King asked. "They're mad that other people are making money? They're mad that there are no jobs in this country? Or not enough jobs? All of us believe that. We're trying to find a way to do it. You don't do it by living in dirt. You don't do it by carrying out rapes. You don't do it by carrying out anti-American slogans."
Peter King (R-N.Y.)

Oh sorry, that was about the Occupy movement, carry on.
 
2012-11-10 01:13:13 PM  

blastoh: At some point, people have to ask.... how many times are these people going to be wrong.


Um, all of 'em, any of 'em that, um, have, have been in front of me over all these years. Um, I have a va-
 
2012-11-10 01:16:32 PM  

Kibbler: Concern about abortion fades into the background when there's an R in the White House.


That's because, for all the talk on a national level, abortion is principally a state-level issue. State governments have been passing restriction after restriction, making it extremely difficult to obtain an abortion in large parts of the country (and, franklny, virtually impossible in some areas).

And, as much as you say that all Bush did was talk, you forget that he also appointed two SCOTUS justices, who would likely fall on the side of upholding whatever abortion restrictions happened to come before them.
 
2012-11-10 01:16:39 PM  

shastacola: thekilt04: windbags also ranting about companies all over america laying of workers for the oncomming obamacolypse. they have held out so far... whats another 2 years

The problem is that there really has to be an obamacolypse and there isn't going to be one. "What's another 2 years", well, if they're smart,it's knowing that business abhors a vacuum as much as politics, and they can get their heads out of their asses or lose to entrepenuers who won't be so stupid.


i honestly believe 'they', whoever they are, have amounted enough cash to wait. i also believe that they would wait, and i think this vacuum you speak of will be mysteriously plagued with tragedies and scandals.

/and if i go full tinhat, i also think they have the ability to fully stall congress and cause another 'creditcrunch'
//i went full tinhat long time ago
 
2012-11-10 01:17:35 PM  

Weaver95: MSNBC just called Florida for Obama. that's officially a 'landslide victory' for Obama.


CNN is doing the same. 332-206 is the final. Not quite as dominant as the 365 Obama got in 2008, but far better than I think anyone (including the Obama team) expected.

/As long as they weren't doing hard math.
 
2012-11-10 01:18:42 PM  

snowshovel: Really, Romney only lost Washington, Colorado, and California due to casual drug use ballots.


Comedy Gold, Jerry.
 
2012-11-10 01:19:46 PM  
It seemed to me that the conservatives used to be the grownups in politics. They weren't the wide-eyed idealists believing that simply having their party in power would magically fix the world and their opponents would somehow completely destroy it. They were clear-headed realists that thought endless welfare wasn't helping society, America needed to wisely marshal its military and engage in conflicts only when our national interest was at stake, and business needed a combination of smart regulation and free market.

Now they only believe in mindless principles that are free from the context of reality. We are always stronger attacking our foreign policy foes, everyone should be on their own with no safety net, and any regulation hurts all business. This is directly due to their media assuming control of their party. Their media doesn't serve them, they serve their media.
 
2012-11-10 01:19:47 PM  
The biggest mistake liberals will make now is assuming that Obama won on ideas. I voted for him. I think he's been a great president. I don't think, however, that conservatism is done in this country by a long shot.

Obama simply ran a better campaign. That's the lesson that liberals need to take away from this election, not that demographics are going to result in an automatic permanent majority.

Remember, Romney still managed to capture about half the country's vote; even with a stumbling campaign.
 
2012-11-10 01:20:21 PM  

Dinki: And I don't see them ever changing on abortion - their religious right base would never allow it.


I don't believe that. The religious right not allowing it, sure. But the Republican party didn't align itself with the religious right's values. They aligned with their votes. After those votes are not enough to win an election, their days are numbered.

Do you really think the Republican party will go down with the ship over principles? That's not the Republican party I know.
 
2012-11-10 01:21:41 PM  

Weaver95: Summoner101: Weaver95: MSNBC just called Florida for Obama. that's officially a 'landslide victory' for Obama.

Has anyone called the West race yet?

dunno, I didn't hear.


CNN has Murphy leading West by 2,442 votes, less than 0.1%. That's almost certainly heading to a recount.
 
2012-11-10 01:24:50 PM  

Summoner101: It all depends. If the Dems can have the same ground game in 2014 that they had this year, the House could be in play considering the Dems were able to contest many seats that were thought to be safe. The GOP can have some pick ups in the Senate, since 2014 is another year where Dems have more contested seats than the GOP, but, considering they were supposed to have pick ups this year and actually lost two seats, that remains to be seen.

The current iteration of the GOP only wins elections because their base happens to be the ones that show up. Since their base is also dying off, that advantage is slowly eroding make each cycle harder and harder to win. As far as 2014, they might make pick ups, the minority party generally does in mid terms. I doubt it will be anything enough to change the status quo.




I would be interested in seeing how is up for re-election in 2014. As it stands, I bet that for all the talk Boehner is putting on about the Fiscal Cliff, it is likely just talk and there will be (relatively) less pushback. I predict a disconnect between the Republicans in Congress and their base that will eventually end in the Congressmen being primaried by Teabagger types who lose the election. Might not be enough to tip the House to the Dems in 2014, but maybe in 2016.
 
2012-11-10 01:26:20 PM  

Summoner101: epoch: Summoner101: You have to give the GOP some credit, they built their echo chamber with some outstanding resilience.

Unfortunately, they'll end up like Porky from Mother 3.

/I'm a geek, sue me

That is awesome.

Nothing is obscure on Fark!


That's actually a really great metaphor. Like Porky, they're collecting the pieces of history they opposed and claiing it as their own, in addition to being craven consumerists hell-bent on destroying what little there is left that is pristine.
 
2012-11-10 01:27:50 PM  

desertgeek: CNN has Murphy leading West by 2,442 votes, less than 0.1%. That's almost certainly heading to a recount.


A 2442 vote difference would be a 0.74% (329338 total votes) difference. I believe the margin has to be 0.5% in Florida to trigger an automatic recount.
 
2012-11-10 01:32:09 PM  
I just dream of a day that I can have an honest, calm discussion with a conservative about spending and taxes, the banking industry and military intervention, and things not having to do with who marries who or the morality of ingesting plants into one's body. I hope that day comes sooner than I thought that it would.
 
2012-11-10 01:35:41 PM  

Summoner101: desertgeek: CNN has Murphy leading West by 2,442 votes, less than 0.1%. That's almost certainly heading to a recount.

A 2442 vote difference would be a 0.74% (329338 total votes) difference. I believe the margin has to be 0.5% in Florida to trigger an automatic recount.


You're right. I didn't move the decimal point over far enough in my mind.
 
2012-11-10 01:37:20 PM  
I couldn't find a transcript, so sorta paraphrased, straight from Papa Bear:

"What do you think is the most fundamental problem with the current political discourse?"

The problem with the discourse deal is capitalism. That's the problem with it, because ... You can make a lot of money by being an assassin. A lot of money. Whether right wing or left wing. You go in and you're a hater - radio, cable, in print, whatever - you get paid. And there's a people who do that - they go in, they don't even believe half the stuff they say, and they just rip it up. And they get paid a lot of money. And that has coarsened everything - they're phonies. And capitalism drives that. There are people, Americans, who want to hear hate, and they hear it. And that has just blown it all up. There's no rules on the internet, none. Just go listen to the comments, after this program, I'm sure there will be chat rooms about this, wait till you see the comments, wait till you see em. And that, its not coming back either, its not going to get any better. But we have to live with it - freedom of speech. ~ Bill O'Reilly, Rumble 2012
 
2012-11-10 01:41:50 PM  

dartben: thekilt04: mmm the senate will loose some Ds. either through gerrymandering or scandel. but i understand your point i think... the senate will not go to 61 Rs. maybe the house is where this is more so amplified? I see the Rs getting near a super majority in the house.... you?

How does one gerrymander the Senate?


Ssshhhhhh! We don't need Texas splitting into 4 states!
 
2012-11-10 01:43:28 PM  

Smelly McUgly: I just dream of a day that I can have an honest, calm discussion with a conservative about spending and taxes, the banking industry and military intervention, and things not having to do with who marries who or the morality of ingesting plants into one's body. I hope that day comes sooner than I thought that it would.


Well, the problem in the US, IMHO is that BOTH sides are profligate big spenders, just on different crap.

/ we do need an effective military, just not one that's as grossly huge as the one we currently have
// we do need an safety net for those less fortunate, just not one that as disorganized and inefficient as the one we currently have.
 
2012-11-10 01:43:45 PM  
When Conservationists are reviled by Conservatives that's a big stretch that conservative means anything.

And that real conservatives haven't found a new label to replace the one hijacked by opportunists must be something very complicated going on.

Since the Southern Republicans took over the care and maintenance of the Klan prior to HW Bush's run, becoming a Republican became more complicated and becoming a Democrat much simpler. 

Just like the family with the uncle who thinks he's a chicken can't quite get him help because they need the eggs.
 
2012-11-10 01:44:25 PM  
'The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality-judiciously, as you will-we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."' - Ron Suskind
 
2012-11-10 01:46:21 PM  

Dinki: Stone Meadow: I read yesterday (did I see it on Fark?) a conservative op/ed piece that said the GOP needed to drop their opposition to immigration reform, abortion and same sex marriage like...tomorrow, and concentrate on fiscal responsibility and small government if they are to avoid catastrophic losses in 2014 and 2016.

Yeah, I think it was Boortz saying that. The problem is motivation, and how people will view their sudden change of heart. Democrats support immigration reform because they see it as a fundamental human rights issue- that if you are obeying the law, working hard, and playing by the rules, then the fact that you crossed an imaginary line on a map should be irrelevant. They see the very real human cost of breaking up families to send immigrants back to their home country as unacceptable. The GOP seem to think that accepting immigration reform just to take the issue off the table, without really accepting the underlying premise of immigration reform will somehow fly with Latinos. We'll see.

Gay marriage is pretty much the same thing- people will see that any change in the GOP position isn't because of a change of heart, but only a cynical adjustment to remove a negative from their books.

And I don't see them ever changing on abortion - their religious right base would never allow it.


Thank you! You are correct...it was Boortz. Like I said, it remains to be seen if the message gets through, but at least there is some amount of introspection going on.
 
2012-11-10 01:46:55 PM  

contrapunctus: The biggest mistake liberals will make now is assuming that Obama won on ideas. I voted for him. I think he's been a great president. I don't think, however, that conservatism is done in this country by a long shot.

Obama simply ran a better campaign. That's the lesson that liberals need to take away from this election, not that demographics are going to result in an automatic permanent majority.

Remember, Romney still managed to capture about half the country's vote; even with a stumbling campaign.


I disagree, a little. On Tuesday we saw pot win in a few states, marriage equality win in every state where it was on the ballot, and a black dude with a Muslim name beat a slick white republican to win a second term, even with unemployment over 7%.

Obama's biggest insight was that the youth vote never got out because no one ever really tried to engage them before. They are MUCH further left than their parents and there are more of them. Only one party has a real shot at capturing the youth vote (that ship sailed for the myopic GOP), so this is going to be a generational problem for the republicans if they don't get their shiat together.

If course, as I write this, some fat old white man is hammering a "Santorum '16" sign into his front lawn without a trace of irony, so good luck with that.
 
2012-11-10 01:51:37 PM  
I was listening to Rush yesterday and one of his callers called in to say he believed Obama rigged the election results, because ... well Benghazi, and gave Mitt 47% of the vote as a symbolic F-U gesture.
 
2012-11-10 01:53:18 PM  

thekilt04: i think windbags answer would be something akin to "those youth hadn't experiance the WREAL WHROLD YET! Soon as they get mugged the'll be CONSERVATIVES FOR LIFE"


Which I always find ironic, because conservatives haven't experienced the real world in years.
 
2012-11-10 01:55:01 PM  
I think there may actually be something to this, though not in the way Slate spins it.

Over the past few decades, but especially the most recent, those in power among the liberals have done an excellent job of convincing the rank and file that the opposition is unthinking, greedy, hateful, dishonest, delusional... in a word, evil in the mustache-twirling villain sense. Conservative media should have taken up the task of disproving this Big Lie, but has instead, to put it mildly, played directly into it. We lost because the people see us as wolves, and now we have to prove that we are not, going up against the mountains of evidence that our own media did more work to provide than theirs did to gather.
 
2012-11-10 01:55:13 PM  

El_Perro: Kibbler: Concern about abortion fades into the background when there's an R in the White House.

That's because, for all the talk on a national level, abortion is principally a state-level issue. State governments have been passing restriction after restriction, making it extremely difficult to obtain an abortion in large parts of the country (and, franklny, virtually impossible in some areas).

And, as much as you say that all Bush did was talk, you forget that he also appointed two SCOTUS justices, who would likely fall on the side of upholding whatever abortion restrictions happened to come before them.


I agree on both points. My point is that the base tried to thump Obama as a babykiller. When it's an R in the White House, suddenly they're back to "state issue" and "Supreme Court."

When it's a D, "ZOMG WHITE HOUSE BABYKILLER."
 
2012-11-10 01:56:30 PM  

i upped my meds-up yours: It could be that they'll just go full entertainment, dop the pretense of news analysis and do nothing but crazy Limbovian / Beckesque rant sauce. This would be win-win for the stupids and the rest of us, as anyone with half a brain tunes it out.

Rush or Beck can't turn a rant into an email campaign to Congress these days; their shows are meant for potato-chip-and-bourbon jack-off sessions, and their listeners know it.


Actually, that'd be a shame. When Fox does news, they tend to be pretty accurate and easy to read. It's nice to have that around.
 
2012-11-10 01:58:13 PM  

HeartBurnKid: thekilt04: i think windbags answer would be something akin to "those youth hadn't experiance the WREAL WHROLD YET! Soon as they get mugged the'll be CONSERVATIVES FOR LIFE"

Which I always find ironic, because conservatives haven't experienced the real world in years.


Also odd because, as I got out into the real world, met people, and got a job and had to pay bills, I have only become more liberal.

/You won't believe this, but same thing happened once I read the Bible more closely.
 
2012-11-10 01:59:30 PM  

syrynxx: They're just going to keep bitterly clinging to their guns and religion.


And hate. Don't forget hate.
 
2012-11-10 02:01:18 PM  

Smelly McUgly: HeartBurnKid: thekilt04: i think windbags answer would be something akin to "those youth hadn't experiance the WREAL WHROLD YET! Soon as they get mugged the'll be CONSERVATIVES FOR LIFE"

Which I always find ironic, because conservatives haven't experienced the real world in years.

Also odd because, as I got out into the real world, met people, and got a job and had to pay bills, I have only become more liberal.

/You won't believe this, but same thing happened once I read the Bible more closely.


Not that I want to turn this into a religious flamewar or anything, so this is the last word I'll say on the subject, but reading the bible is what turned me into an atheist.
 
2012-11-10 02:02:20 PM  

Millennium: I think there may actually be something to this, though not in the way Slate spins it.

Over the past few decades, but especially the most recent, those in power among the liberals have done an excellent job of convincing the rank and file that the opposition is unthinking, greedy, hateful, dishonest, delusional... in a word, evil in the mustache-twirling villain sense. Conservative media should have taken up the task of disproving this Big Lie, but has instead, to put it mildly, played directly into it. We lost because the people see us as wolves, and now we have to prove that we are not, going up against the mountains of evidence that our own media did more work to provide than theirs did to gather.


You could try just not being so evil. That might work.
 
2012-11-10 02:03:39 PM  
Count me as one of the conservative/libertarian Republicans who has been trying to fight the Limbaugh/Hannity/Coulter Axis of Turditry for years.

I've put in hours trying to convince my GOP friends to ditch this crowd, and believe it or not, I think with this election proving me right, some of them are starting to listen. I was president of my College Republicans club a few years ago, and while I fully admit my youthful douchebaggery, I have to say I remain hopeful that we can free ourselves from the self-contained echo-chamber infotainment bubble.

I posted a site to the CRs' group on rethinking the GOP position on Abortion and SSM, and didn't immediately get banned or shot down, so that's a start.

Then again, Free Republic just booted me because I posted in their "Why Mitt Lost" thread that it was time for the GOP to start looking inward instead of blaming a mass conspiracy of slender pollsters and scheming minority reporters.

Long road ahead. I alternate between wanting to try to better the part from within, or just leaving it and voting myself into obscurity with a third party/independents.
 
2012-11-10 02:04:19 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Smelly McUgly: HeartBurnKid: thekilt04: i think windbags answer would be something akin to "those youth hadn't experiance the WREAL WHROLD YET! Soon as they get mugged the'll be CONSERVATIVES FOR LIFE"

Which I always find ironic, because conservatives haven't experienced the real world in years.

Also odd because, as I got out into the real world, met people, and got a job and had to pay bills, I have only become more liberal.

/You won't believe this, but same thing happened once I read the Bible more closely.

Not that I want to turn this into a religious flamewar or anything, so this is the last word I'll say on the subject, but reading the bible is what turned me into an atheist.


Eh, I've heard that from people. No interest in a flamewar here at all; I was merely indicating that doing the activities that Republicans are sure make us younger folks conservatives did the exact opposite to me.

/Now I'm thirty, which is not so young anymore. :(
 
2012-11-10 02:04:59 PM  
They couldn't be honest about how poorly their candidate was doing because it might jeopardize the flow of campaign contributions. If the rank and file republicans realized how utterly and completely they were duped by their own party's leadership, it would probably be the end of the party.
 
2012-11-10 02:06:28 PM  

Millennium: Over the past few decades, but especially the most recent, those in power among the liberals have done an excellent job of convincing the rank and file that the opposition is unthinking, greedy, hateful, dishonest, delusional... in a word, evil in the mustache-twirling villain sense.


Unthinking:  upload.wikimedia.org

Greedy: static3.businessinsider.com


Hateful: upload.wikimedia.org

Dishonest: www.biography.com

and last, but not least;

Delusional: static01.mediaite.com
 
2012-11-10 02:07:18 PM  

ToxicMunkee: I'm okay with this. Because I love it when they call me a slut because of my whore pills. And I love it when they say I'm warring on their Jesus because I say "Happy Holidays."

It's fun for me.


How YOU doin?
 
2012-11-10 02:09:07 PM  

Smelly McUgly: HeartBurnKid: Smelly McUgly: HeartBurnKid: thekilt04: i think windbags answer would be something akin to "those youth hadn't experiance the WREAL WHROLD YET! Soon as they get mugged the'll be CONSERVATIVES FOR LIFE"

Which I always find ironic, because conservatives haven't experienced the real world in years.

Also odd because, as I got out into the real world, met people, and got a job and had to pay bills, I have only become more liberal.

/You won't believe this, but same thing happened once I read the Bible more closely.

Not that I want to turn this into a religious flamewar or anything, so this is the last word I'll say on the subject, but reading the bible is what turned me into an atheist.

Eh, I've heard that from people. No interest in a flamewar here at all; I was merely indicating that doing the activities that Republicans are sure make us younger folks conservatives did the exact opposite to me.

/Now I'm thirty, which is not so young anymore. :(


Thirty-three here.
 
2012-11-10 02:15:51 PM  

Weaver95: Girl From The North Country: You would have thought that this election would have snapped them out of their echo chamber. They have to realize they were being fed a false narrative.

I have a friend who is a huge Glenn Beck fan. He is otherwise a very smart, analytical type. If this doesn't wake him up then I will have lost all hope. He honestly believes he 'knows' Glenn, a true patriot, who would do anything to save this country from the Socialist. Not an 'entertainer' who makes millions off of scaring people about the various atrocities that the Dems want to inflict upon them for all eternity.

talk to your friend. just be aware that transitioning from the echo chamber to reality can be a very jarring experience.


I texted a friend of mine last night to invite her husband & her over for dinner next week. They are both EXTREME Fox News watching, Glenn Beck listening conservatives whom I know were completely expecting a Romney victory last Tuesday. I want to see if they're... OK. It's hard to really describe. I guess I'm just hoping that Obama's re-election didn't tip them off into the deep. I've been friends with the husband since we were both 12 years old. That friendship would be a really hard one to lose.
 
2012-11-10 02:16:45 PM  

Millennium: I think there may actually be something to this, though not in the way Slate spins it.

Over the past few decades, but especially the most recent, those in power among the liberals have done an excellent job of convincing the rank and file that the opposition is unthinking, greedy, hateful, dishonest, delusional... in a word, evil in the mustache-twirling villain sense. Conservative media should have taken up the task of disproving this Big Lie, but has instead, to put it mildly, played directly into it. We lost because the people see us as wolves, and now we have to prove that we are not, going up against the mountains of evidence that our own media did more work to provide than theirs did to gather.


Just checking, but you did see the stories about Chick Fil A and gays, the various business owners telling their employees how to vote, and Papa Johns and the coal mine owners laying off people after Obama won?

/Are those all big lies?
//Which way would you expect those kinds of stories to be told?
///"The heroic owner of Papa John's will lay off workers because he can't afford a $0.14 increase per pizza. Really?"
 
2012-11-10 02:22:09 PM  

thekilt04: "those youth hadn't experiance the WREAL WHROLD YET! Soon as they get mugged by people whose jobs we outsourced the'll be CONSERVATIVES FOR LIFE"


ftfy. the ultimate goal is not to help the country, it's to make more and more conservatives.
 
2012-11-10 02:38:18 PM  
Who to thank for Obama's victory?
1) Ronald Reagan, because his "thou shall not speak ill of another Republican" edict has caused the party to devolve to its lowest common denominators.
2) Citizens United, which put the clowns in the clown car and ate up Romney's time and money.
 
2012-11-10 02:54:18 PM  

MacWizard: The article's lede: "When Republicans perform a full autopsy on the 2012 elections, they'll realize they only deluded themselves"

Ain't gonna happen anytime soon. They ran an quick post-mortem and decided that the obvious problem was that they simply weren't conservative enough.


That's the best part. They have not choice but to go extreme right. The Democratic party now spans the political spectrum from moderately-liberal to centrist to moderately-conservative. Extreme-right positions are the only positions a Republican candidate can stake out that aren't already supported by the Democrats. Of course the Republicans could always jettison their Tea Party, religious-right, nationalistic base and try reclaim their traditional conservative positions from the Democrats. Either way, the schadenfreude should be delicious and should last for several years.
 
2012-11-10 03:00:06 PM  
Is there a liberal equivalent of the conservative media? (Please don't say MSM.) I know people occasionally point to MSNBC as the "mirror" of FoxNews, but I don't feel that's entirely accurate. What about Rush, Beck, Hannity, etc.? NPR is sometimes brought up as a counter to Rush & Beck, but I don't think that's accurate, either. And, or course, Stewart's & Colbert's names are often mentioned as liberal mouthpieces but they don't spew a bunch of crap so much as they highlight what others are spewing.
Is there a nationally syndicated liberal "firebrand" somewhere in AM radio giving lip service to left wing positions while using them to demonize Republicans for the purpose of making his listeners feel threatened so that he can comfort them?


On an unrelated note...
threadjack
This is why I love Fark. I'm reading along through a rational discussion about a topic that interests me, with various ideas being debated from different viewpoints when BAM! I come across this:

Aarontology: I'm getting tired of you people bad mouthing the good name of jerking off.

and suddenly I've got mountain dew coming out of my nose and I'm choking like a 14-year old kid taking his first bong hit. If I had more time to spend, I'd probably have to get totalFark.
/threadjack
 
2012-11-10 03:01:08 PM  

Millennium: I think there may actually be something to this, though not in the way Slate spins it.

Over the past few decades, but especially the most recent, those in power among the liberals have done an excellent job of convincing the rank and file that the opposition is unthinking, greedy, hateful, dishonest, delusional... in a word, evil in the mustache-twirling villain sense. Conservative media should have taken up the task of disproving this Big Lie, but has instead, to put it mildly, played directly into it. We lost because the people see us as wolves, and now we have to prove that we are not, going up against the mountains of evidence that our own media did more work to provide than theirs did to gather.


This is my favorite article on the subject.
 
2012-11-10 03:12:29 PM  
No, that's not how it works.

Conservative media helps conservatives by being honest.

Liberal media helps liberals by being dishonest.
 
2012-11-10 03:19:44 PM  

randomjsa: No, that's not how it works.

Conservative media helps conservatives by being honest.

Liberal media helps liberals by being dishonest.


Well, that's certainly been the right-wing media's mantra for over 20 years. But this last election showed conclusively how that's not true. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for conservatives continuing to believe right-wing media's description of their "reality", or even (a dream come true) doubling down on it. But if you do, please understand that the White House will belong to the Democrats for a generation.
 
2012-11-10 03:21:12 PM  

Millennium: I think there may actually be something to this, though not in the way Slate spins it.

Over the past few decades, but especially the most recent, those in power among the liberals have done an excellent job of convincing the rank and file that the opposition is unthinking, greedy, hateful, dishonest, delusional... in a word, evil in the mustache-twirling villain sense. Conservative media should have taken up the task of disproving this Big Lie, but has instead, to put it mildly, played directly into it. We lost because the people see us as wolves, and now we have to prove that we are not, going up against the mountains of evidence that our own media did more work to provide than theirs did to gather.


i47.tinypic.com

/wolves
 
2012-11-10 03:21:54 PM  
I'm watching a Fox News show discussing media right now. They're blaming the libal media,immigrants and welfare moochers for Romneys loss. The only lesson they'll learn from this is to double down until they're waving to the Whig Party as they pass each other in the night.
 
2012-11-10 03:31:19 PM  
Dear republican friends:

Please stop listening to Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Fox News and we'll stop making fun of you.
 
2012-11-10 03:40:56 PM  

Notabunny: Millennium: I think there may actually be something to this, though not in the way Slate spins it.

Over the past few decades, but especially the most recent, those in power among the liberals have done an excellent job of convincing the rank and file that the opposition is unthinking, greedy, hateful, dishonest, delusional... in a word, evil in the mustache-twirling villain sense. Conservative media should have taken up the task of disproving this Big Lie, but has instead, to put it mildly, played directly into it. We lost because the people see us as wolves, and now we have to prove that we are not, going up against the mountains of evidence that our own media did more work to provide than theirs did to gather.

This is my favorite article on the subject.


That was a good analysis that I whole-heartedly agree with.

The conservatives have successfully convinced their supporters that the conservative media is the only place to get the truth and everything else is a lie.
 
2012-11-10 03:59:00 PM  

randomjsa: No, that's not how it works.

Conservative media helps conservatives by being honest.

Liberal media helps liberals by being dishonest.


"Is this just math you do to make Republicans feel better?"

thedailybanter.com
 
2012-11-10 03:59:53 PM  

Weaver95: FeedTheCollapse:

I disagree with the bolded portion. Behind the Republicans being firmly up their own ass and ignoring reality, the next biggest problem is that no one really liked Romney. They danced around nominating him during the primaries, but their motivation for voting for Romney had more to do with voting against Obama than supporting any of Romney's policies. Though the willingness to swallow all of Romney's bullshiat was a bit disheartening, but I guess that's what Republicans have come to.

then consider that they had a passionate hatred of Obama and channeled that into support for Romney.


When I pointed out to a friend that the Republican Party did not seem particularly enamored with Romney and only gave him the nomination because the rest of the potential nominees look like they'd come out of a clown car, she said that, yeah, at first she did not like Romney, but after "hearing him speak" she determined that she DID like him.

She also told me that he was a great statesman who did great things in Massachusetts.

/Cognitive dissonance much?
 
2012-11-10 04:01:33 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: randomjsa: No, that's not how it works.

Conservative media helps conservatives by being honest.

Liberal media helps liberals by being dishonest.

"Is this just math you do to make Republicans feel better?"


[thedailybanter.com image 400x300]


You get a funny vote for that... :^)
 
2012-11-10 04:07:27 PM  

Weaver95: to my knowledge, Limbaugh has STILL not mentioned Nate Silver since election night. Remember that Limbaugh spent 6 weeks harshly berating Nate Silver and calling him all sorts of names. Rush 'proved' Nate Silver wrong, and did so at least 5 or 6 times. Now that the data is in and Nate Silver was proven right, Limbaugh hasn't said thing one about the guy.


Fairly standard response to inconvenient evidence no matter what part of the spectrum: Selective Exposure (tuning it out of your field of attention), or worse, pretend you never said anything and deny it if anyone brings it up.

There's also signs of inferred justification ("Romney SHOULD have won; therefore, Obama must have suppressed the GOP vote") or disputing rationality ("Facts still don't matter"), though there's a lot more attitude bolstering ("We still believe, because this, that, and the other" -- leaving the election outcome aside).
 
2012-11-10 04:21:02 PM  
Feb 1994

i49.tinypic.com.

i45.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-10 04:22:26 PM  

Stone Meadow: Glad I refreshed the page, because I came to make this point. In fact, I read yesterday (did I see it on Fark?) a conservative op/ed piece that said the GOP needed to drop their opposition to immigration reform, abortion and same sex marriage like...tomorrow, and concentrate on fiscal responsibility and small government if they are to avoid catastrophic losses in 2014 and 2016.


That will never work. The Republicans are a crony capitalistic party that uses religious social issues in order to convince poor people to vote against their own self-interest. The only reason religious types believe in trickle down theory is because the party of God says that trickle down theory works. But if the GOP stops crusading against same sex marriage, then they're no longer the party of God.

Take religious pandering and racism out of the equation, and they're left with nothing. The party would still appeal from the Mitt Romney types who lived privileged lives and who actually benefit from the crony capitalism, but it would not appeal to everyone else.
 
2012-11-10 04:28:48 PM  

tdpatriots12: Nowadays conservatives run away from arguments with me really quick once they're confronted with the fact I know their own bullshiat better than they do. Having been duped by it for so long, I'm also fairly contemptuous of it as a result. Though I'm terrible at creating converts like myself. I never know where to start. How do you explain to someone everything they think they know about history and politics is simply not true?


It all boils down to humility. They have none. The people who have stuck with the republicans are people who genuinely believe that they are the superior thinking, working, moral class. And everyone else is a Godless uneducated moocher who wants free handouts.

Modern Republicans have a lot in common with the wanna-be facebook model, the girl who thinks she's "all that" because she posts trashy photos of herself in revealing attire. How do you convince her that she's not "all that?" How do you burst that bubble?

It's not something that will ever happen through reasoned discussion. It's something that can only happen with a rude awakening. Don't be afraid to go for the jugular, and don't be afraid to call them out on their bullshiat. Most of the outspoken conservatives I meet are bullies who aren't used to people standing up to them, and their world dies a little every time that someone does.
 
2012-11-10 04:29:26 PM  

schrodinger: Stone Meadow: Glad I refreshed the page, because I came to make this point. In fact, I read yesterday (did I see it on Fark?) a conservative op/ed piece that said the GOP needed to drop their opposition to immigration reform, abortion and same sex marriage like...tomorrow, and concentrate on fiscal responsibility and small government if they are to avoid catastrophic losses in 2014 and 2016.

That will never work. The Republicans are a crony capitalistic party that uses religious social issues in order to convince poor people to vote against their own self-interest. The only reason religious types believe in trickle down theory is because the party of God says that trickle down theory works. But if the GOP stops crusading against same sex marriage, then they're no longer the party of God.

Take religious pandering and racism out of the equation, and they're left with nothing. The party would still appeal from the Mitt Romney types who lived privileged lives and who actually benefit from the crony capitalism, but it would not appeal to everyone else.


Yeah, I wasn't trying to convince anyone that the GOP is going to actually change its ways. Just that at some level it IS asking itself the right questions. In any case we'll know in a matter of weeks which way they'll go. The fiscal cliff is looming large...
 
2012-11-10 05:00:37 PM  
Bumpersticker

Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity with round red noses

Don't believe the clownservative media.
 
2012-11-10 05:04:20 PM  
If Republicans want a chance in hell of ever winning the White House again, the first thing they need to do is realize that women, gays, believers in science, secularists and non-white people are all voters to be courted, not threats to campaign against.
 
2012-11-10 05:05:51 PM  

Goddess of Atheism: If Republicans want a chance in hell of ever winning the White House again, the first thing they need to do is realize that women, gays, believers in science, secularists and non-white people are all voters to be courted, not threats to campaign against.


But then what platform do they have left?
 
2012-11-10 05:26:51 PM  

shastacola: This is the most delicious irony of the GOP's slow crawl toward irrelevance since their embrace of the southern strategy,They're forced to "dance with one that brung ya", and it's going to destroy them.


The problem is that they're in such denial that they've repeatedly denied that the Southern Strategy ever happened. Pat Buchanan, one of the architects of the Southern Strategy denied it right around the time that Ken Mehlman apologized for it. Currently, Ann Coulter's new book is claiming that the Republicans are and have always been the party of the civil rights movement.
 
2012-11-10 05:35:21 PM  

Girl From The North Country: You would have thought that this election would have snapped them out of their echo chamber. They have to realize they were being fed a false narrative.

I have a friend who is a huge Glenn Beck fan. He is otherwise a very smart, analytical type. If this doesn't wake him up then I will have lost all hope. He honestly believes he 'knows' Glenn, a true patriot, who would do anything to save this country from the Socialist. Not an 'entertainer' who makes millions off of scaring people about the various atrocities that the Dems want to inflict upon them for all eternity.


Maybe the gold-scam thing might open his eyes? Glenn has been really really lucky to avoid chargesover the massive false advertising of gold he was involved in.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/07/glenn-beck-goldline/
 
2012-11-10 05:49:49 PM  
farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2012-11-10 05:57:20 PM  
ftfa: The next four years will be boom times for conservative media; it's always good for business when your enemies are in power. They will continue to infuriate amuse liberals.
 
2012-11-10 06:36:39 PM  

Stone Meadow: Weaver95: MacWizard: The article's lede: "When Republicans perform a full autopsy on the 2012 elections, they'll realize they only deluded themselves"

Ain't gonna happen anytime soon. They ran an quick post-mortem and decided that the obvious problem was that they simply weren't conservative enough.

yeah but its early yet. i'm sure that right now a bunch of elite GOP inner circle members are sitting around a table somewhere and having a frank, no bullshiat discussion about what they're gonna do for 2014. they got their asses beat and they know it. propaganda aside, they KNOW they lost big and I very strongly suspect that it's shocking enough to force them to confront a reality they're not very fond of admitting exists in the first place.

strange times indeed for the GOP. they might actually be desperate enough to move back to the center.

Glad I refreshed the page, because I came to make this point. In fact, I read yesterday (did I see it on Fark?) a conservative op/ed piece that said the GOP needed to drop their opposition to immigration reform, abortion and same sex marriage like...tomorrow, and concentrate on fiscal responsibility and small government if they are to avoid catastrophic losses in 2014 and 2016. So, the introspection is going on, but it remains to be seen whether the party as a whole embraces it, or if the Teahadist wing calling for them to go even further rightward will prevail.


Probably this, if they have their way. As things stand right now, they're the ones making the most noise, and squeaky wheel and all that. They're the ones saying they lost because they weren't conservative enough; and the ones saying they need to stick to their values. It seems obvious to normal people that America is becoming too polarized and that f*ck-you politics aren't going to work much longer; but these aren't normal people, they're ideologues, and the only way they know to act is to get even more polarized.
 
2012-11-10 06:40:50 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Stone Meadow: So, the introspection is going on, but it remains to be seen whether the party as a whole embraces it, or if the Teahadist wing calling for them to go even further rightward will prevail.

Probably this, if they have their way. As things stand right now, they're the ones making the most noise, and squeaky wheel and all that. They're the ones saying they lost because they weren't conservative enough; and the ones saying they need to stick to their values. It seems obvious to normal people that America is becoming too polarized and that f*ck-you politics aren't going to work much longer; but these aren't normal people, they're ideologues, and the only way they know to act is to get even more polarized.


Yeah, you're probably right. Certainly that's what Allen West of Florida wants to go... ;^)
 
2012-11-10 06:41:29 PM  

Vegemite: soaboutthat: i upped my meds-up yours: It could be that they'll just go full entertainment, dop the pretense of news analysis and do nothing but crazy Limbovian / Beckesque rant sauce. This would be win-win for the stupids and the rest of us, as anyone with half a brain tunes it out.

Rush or Beck can't turn a rant into an email campaign to Congress these days; their shows are meant for potato-chip-and-bourbon jack-off sessions, and their listeners know it.

You leave bourbon out of this. Bourbon did nothing to you. It's more like a potato-chips and bud light jack-off session.

What is wrong with that?


Ever get salt in your pee-hole?
 
2012-11-10 06:52:33 PM  

FloydA: i upped my meds-up yours: It could be that they'll just go full entertainment, dop the pretense of news analysis and do nothing but crazy Limbovian / Beckesque rant sauce. This would be win-win for the stupids and the rest of us, as anyone with half a brain tunes it out.

Rush or Beck can't turn a rant into an email campaign to Congress these days; their shows are meant for potato-chip-and-bourbon jack-off sessions, and their listeners know it.

Hey now, that's over the line. What's wrong with potato chips, bourbon, and jacking off?


Well, now I know what I'm doing tonight.

/Wife's 900 miles away, so it's about all I got
 
2012-11-10 07:00:55 PM  
So what does the GOP define as "truly conservative?" If implying that all women are stupid whores and all minorities are welfare leeches wasn't enough, what else must one do to be "more conservative?"
 
2012-11-10 07:09:59 PM  

WordyGrrl: So what does the GOP define as "truly conservative?" If implying that all women are stupid whores and all minorities are welfare leeches wasn't enough, what else must one do to be "more conservative?"


Republican Jesus?
 
2012-11-10 07:14:24 PM  
"Conservatism" is a ruse to pit whites against all other minorities, and while these whites are distracted by petty racial issues, billionaire plutocrats take all the money and don't pay any taxes.

It's worked for a good while now.
 
2012-11-10 07:48:55 PM  
The biggest threat to America is the mainstream media. Get your story straight.
 
2012-11-10 08:02:38 PM  

tony41454: The biggest threat to America is the mainstream media. Get your story straight.


Were you trying to prove that the headline is true?
 
2012-11-10 08:44:00 PM  

daveUSMC: Count me as one of the conservative/libertarian Republicans who has been trying to fight the Limbaugh/Hannity/Coulter Axis of Turditry for years.

I've put in hours trying to convince my GOP friends to ditch this crowd, and believe it or not, I think with this election proving me right, some of them are starting to listen. I was president of my College Republicans club a few years ago, and while I fully admit my youthful douchebaggery, I have to say I remain hopeful that we can free ourselves from the self-contained echo-chamber infotainment bubble.


Good for you. I believe that this may be, once the butthurt subsides, an opportunity for conservatives like you and liberals like me to reach out to some of these people who've been brainwashed and ... well, disenfranchised by the Limbaugh/Hannity/Coulter Axis of Turditry (good name there, I LOL'd) for so long.

I've got em in my family, in fact, most of my family is deep in it. Whenever they start to derp at me, I can only either shut down or try to gently provide a link to a news article or whatever which brings things back to reality, and then they shut down and change the subject. I think they must think that I'm not interested in politics since I don't really discuss things at length with them. I really can't without coming across as being unintentionally condescending, and I don't want that to happen.
 
2012-11-10 09:03:22 PM  
does anyone else remember liberals and the media declaring the GOP as in serious trouble after the 2008 elections?

I certainly do.

does anyone else remember the GOP cleaning the Democrats' clock in 2010?

I certainly do.
 
2012-11-10 09:20:56 PM  

Notabunny: This is my favorite article on the subject.


Why don't Americans trust Republicans on foreign policy as they once did? In part because conservatism hasn't grappled with the foreign-policy failures of George W. Bush. A conspiracy of silence surrounds the subject. Romney could neither run on the man's record nor repudiate it.


Quoted for farking truth.
 
2012-11-10 09:24:37 PM  

tony41454: The biggest threat to America is the mainstream media. Get your story straight.


Aw, shiat. You're still showing up around here? LOL. I figured you were out buying land in Georgia for your Obamapocalypse bunker.
 
2012-11-10 09:25:15 PM  

dumbobruni: does anyone else remember liberals and the media declaring the GOP as in serious trouble after the 2008 elections?

I certainly do.

does anyone else remember the GOP cleaning the Democrats' clock in 2010?

I certainly do.


The thing is, the GOP is now kinda stuck with the Tea Party movement, which is able to motivate derptastic voters in certain Congressional districts, but cost them winnable Senate seats in '10 and '12. The House flipped in '10 because the conservative media turned up the derp to eleven, but that doesn't work in statewide elections.
 
2012-11-10 09:31:12 PM  
If it is, conservatives will never know any better until they step outside that echo chamber.
 
2012-11-10 09:34:09 PM  
That ship sailed years ago. All the genuine conservatives are either dead or retired.
 
2012-11-10 09:38:52 PM  

Weaver95: syrynxx: They're just going to keep bitterly clinging to their guns and religion.

again, I was floored by the near complete lack of ground level organization among Team Romney supporters. they had fire, passion for their candidate...but no organization. their own ideology is central command driven, it doesn't teach them individual initiative. everything HAS to be approved by someone further up their chain of command and GOD help you if you do something without authorization. so in the end, they had a bunch of Romney voters standing around waiting for orders while Team Obama ran the table.


authoritarian ideology leads to authoritarian tactics
 
2012-11-10 09:56:10 PM  

dumbobruni: does anyone else remember liberals and the media declaring the GOP as in serious trouble after the 2008 elections?

I certainly do.

does anyone else remember the GOP cleaning the Democrats' clock in 2010?

I certainly do.


Honestly, I'm writing off the House of Representatives to the GOP for a while. This is just a factor of geography and gerrymandering. The Senate will teeter back and forth maybe for a bit, too. But the Presidency or any other type of national election will be out of reach until the republicans understand what they are up against, and right now all signs point to the fact that they don't.
 
2012-11-10 09:57:42 PM  

Weaver95: again, I was floored by the near complete lack of ground level organization among Team Romney supporters. they had fire, passion for their candidate...but no organization. their own ideology is central command driven, it doesn't teach them individual initiative. everything HAS to be approved by someone further up their chain of command and GOD help you if you do something without authorization. so in the end, they had a bunch of Romney voters standing around waiting for orders while Team Obama ran the table.


You've read about Project ORCA, right?
 
2012-11-10 10:33:35 PM  

The Great Gazoo: dumbobruni: does anyone else remember liberals and the media declaring the GOP as in serious trouble after the 2008 elections?

I certainly do.

does anyone else remember the GOP cleaning the Democrats' clock in 2010?

I certainly do.

Honestly, I'm writing off the House of Representatives to the GOP for a while. This is just a factor of geography and gerrymandering. The Senate will teeter back and forth maybe for a bit, too. But the Presidency or any other type of national election will be out of reach until the republicans understand what they are up against, and right now all signs point to the fact that they don't.


Democrats could counter the geography and gerrymandering problems by increasing voter turnout in battleground districts.

turnout in 2010? just 41% of registered voters. in 2008 it was 62%, and this year it was 58%.
 
2012-11-10 10:46:45 PM  

dumbobruni: does anyone else remember liberals and the media declaring the GOP as in serious trouble after the 2008 elections?

I certainly do.

does anyone else remember the GOP cleaning the Democrats' clock in 2010?

I certainly do.


Are you a witch?
 
2012-11-10 10:53:26 PM  

FloydA: dumbobruni: does anyone else remember liberals and the media declaring the GOP as in serious trouble after the 2008 elections?

I certainly do.

does anyone else remember the GOP cleaning the Democrats' clock in 2010?

I certainly do.

Are you a witch?


No, I'm you.
 
2012-11-11 12:33:20 AM  

impaler: I hope no one said the same about Mein Kampf.


Sure, lots of people did, but they all ended up in concentration camps.

Sorry, I started out thinking I was going to make you feel better.
 
2012-11-11 01:08:53 AM  

dumbobruni: does anyone else remember liberals and the media declaring the GOP as in serious trouble after the 2008 elections?

I certainly do.

does anyone else remember the GOP cleaning the Democrats' clock in 2010?

I certainly do.


I do....and I remember telling a lot of conservatives "You guys better be careful of those Tea Party idiots you're cultivating, because they're going to bite you in the ass if you're not careful," and getting a lot of condescending laughs and pats on my silly liberal head by GOPers who knew that they were going to use the Teahadists to win enough votes to show the Democrats what was what and then kick the Tea Party to the curb.

And here we are in 2012, after the Tea Party has destroyed whatever hope the Republicans might have had of taking back the White House because they DID show the Democrats what was what...and also the GOP who have no idea what hit them. Which doesn't mean much except I probably need to call Nate Silver and ask if his statistical model has room for a foolish prophetess who keeps saying no to some sun god.
 
2012-11-11 03:37:47 AM  

dumbobruni: does anyone else remember liberals and the media declaring the GOP as in serious trouble after the 2008 elections?

I certainly do.

does anyone else remember the GOP cleaning the Democrats' clock in 2010?

I certainly do.


What is your definition of "cleaning the Democrats' clock"?
 
2012-11-11 07:44:09 AM  
I don't care.

I'm just gonna sit back, heartily and aggressively kick my fellow Dems and Indies in the ass when they get complacent, drink kamikazes, and watch the GOP continue to suck up xenomorph acid and call it Snapple. 

I don't know if I can communicate to my townie pals right now. I have to wait a few weeks while their massive glummitude simmers down.

They know Karl Rove destroyed their political party, but I think that might be as far as they manage to go.

I get a very strong impression that they think the GOP needs to go even further right. It's amazing in a very unpleasant way just how lock-step the Republican philosophy has become.
 
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