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(Boston.com)   Appeals court says Starbucks has to give your barista that tip you left for her back in 2008   (boston.com) divider line 38
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2885 clicks; posted to Business » on 10 Nov 2012 at 12:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-10 12:06:12 PM
Ooh, a tip thread.

Splitting tips like this makes even less sense than regular tipping.
I can kind of see the appeal of the "hey, why don't you pay my employees and review their performance for me" approach to management, but that kind of goes out the window when the tips get spread equally among the hard and lazy workers, like some kind of communism.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-10 12:33:54 PM
The legal issue is actually an interesting one. Appeals court decision. Massachusetts changed the law about tip pooling. The law used to say employees who were primarily managers could not join tip pools. The law now says nobody who has any supervisory authority at all can join a tip pool. Starbucks followed the old law but not the new one. Under the new law whoever is nominally in charge of the shift can't share tips even if she spends 90% of her time making foam.

There's a separate lawsuit by supervisors in New York because they don't get to share tips any more.

Irrelevant quote from the decision: Most people would think that bilking a widow out of her life's savings is outrageous; some would think that charging $5.25 for a salted caramel mocha frappuccino is outrageous.
 
2012-11-10 12:44:59 PM

serial_crusher: Ooh, a tip thread.

Splitting tips like this makes even less sense than regular tipping.
I can kind of see the appeal of the "hey, why don't you pay my employees and review their performance for me" approach to management, but that kind of goes out the window when the tips get spread equally among the hard and lazy workers, like some kind of communism.


{When | If } you get {coffee | not coffee}, is it made by the cashier?
 
2012-11-10 12:56:22 PM

serial_crusher: I can kind of see the appeal of the "hey, why don't you pay my employees and review their performance for me" approach to management, but that kind of goes out the window when the tips get spread equally among the hard and lazy workers, like some kind of communism.


Have you been to a Starbucks? The tip jar is a clear box mounted near the register. People drop money in for all of the cashiers / baristas. It was bullshiat that the managers were being cut in, but it is a pooled amount of money that they all split up at the end of the shift. That's teamwork, not Communism.
 
2012-11-10 01:08:44 PM

vartian: It was bullshiat that the managers were being cut in


The managers are not cut in. It's actually company policy that managers and assistant managers aren't even allowed to TOUCH the tips for any reason, even to put it away. They get nothing of it. This was the shift supervisors, who are not at all managers. They are baristas with keys; they do the exact same work, and even more because they have to maintain the supervisory position of their shift and make sure everything is running smoothly and that all of the store's money is accounted for. So this ruling is complete and absolute bullshiat.
 
2012-11-10 01:27:37 PM
Anyone who has ever worked as Shift Supervisor (at Starbucks or elsewhere) know this ruling is complete crap. SS spend the vast majority of their time serving customers directly, they may be the first one in the door to count the safe and tills but other than that they are usually the ones genertaring the most revenue for the tip pool (because they usually work the most hours).

Real management should never be included in the tip pool.
 
2012-11-10 01:54:45 PM
Who tips a fast food worker?
 
2012-11-10 01:57:47 PM
I never tip baristas. I'm not getting all Mr Pink here, but the rule with tipping was about giving service, as in, someone saves you the bother of having to do something. Tipping evolved from people hanging around places offering a service that the establishment didn't provide. So, some boy at the reception desk took your bags to the room for you and you paid him for doing so.

When I sit down in Starbucks and someone comes over and asks me what I want, and then brings it to me, I'll tip them.
 
2012-11-10 01:59:05 PM

wyltoknow: vartian: It was bullshiat that the managers were being cut in

The managers are not cut in. It's actually company policy that managers and assistant managers aren't even allowed to TOUCH the tips for any reason, even to put it away. They get nothing of it. This was the shift supervisors, who are not at all managers. They are baristas with keys; they do the exact same work, and even more because they have to maintain the supervisory position of their shift and make sure everything is running smoothly and that all of the store's money is accounted for. So this ruling is complete and absolute bullshiat.


The ruling isn't bullshiat, but the tip law is.

"Generally speaking, the Massachusetts Tip Law prohibits employers from requiring a "wait staff employee" to participate in a tip pool if it means sharing tips with anyone other than a "wait staff employee." A "wait staff employee" is defined as having "no managerial responsibility.""

Your description of shift supervisors includes "managerial responsibility:" supervision, coordination of operations, and financial accountability for the whole shift.

The problem is that the law is black-or-white but Starbucks' reality is a spectrum of greys.

The court called it correctly under the law. Law needs to change.
 
2012-11-10 02:12:11 PM
I don't like tipping people, so I cook my own meals/make my own drinks/etc. instead of going out to eat. Tip people if you go out. Don't like tipping? Don't go out. Simple.
 
2012-11-10 02:23:14 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Your description of shift supervisors includes "managerial responsibility:" supervision, coordination of operations, and financial accountability for the whole shift.

The problem is that the law is black-or-white but Starbucks' reality is a spectrum of greys.


Seems more the problem is that the law relies on an incredibly vague concept. Baristas are often given a modicum of control over the shift and expected to be able to run things according to common sense and experience without much, if any, outside guidance. They are for all intents and purposes given the same "power" as any shift supervisor, except they don't get paid an extra buck an hour to take all the responsibility for handling the store's money.
 
2012-11-10 02:56:48 PM
Starbucks, which did not return messages seeking comment, had argued that shift supervisors did not have managerial responsibilities.

I guess 'supervision' means you're just watching everyone else work.
 
2012-11-10 03:08:48 PM
mrpink.jpg
 
2012-11-10 03:34:13 PM
I hate tipping, I like my steak well done with A1 sauce, beer sucks and tastes like crap, so does whiskey bourbon and scotch, Chicago Deep Dish > New York Cardboard Pizza, small tits are great, big women don't bother me, and teenage boys (and girls) sleeping with teachers is disgustingly bad and wrong.

Come at me.
 
2012-11-10 04:00:58 PM
employers that have their workers afraid to accept a gratuity piss me off. it's my damn business if i want to pass a fiver on to someone that helps me with their technical knowledge, lug a big box to my motor vehicle or simply makes me smile.

i don't just believe in tipping. i believe in over-tipping, and i believe in tipping people that don't usually get tips. too many people work jobs where they catch crap from people every week. screw that. be the odd man out. be the one that leaves someone happy and wondering why you just crammed $5.00 in their paw.

/life is too short.
//i just play a dooshbag on the internet, not in real life
///deadtom TY
 
2012-11-10 04:09:57 PM

KrispyKritter: employers that have their workers afraid to accept a gratuity piss me off. it's my damn business if i want to pass a fiver on to someone that helps me with their technical knowledge, lug a big box to my motor vehicle or simply makes me smile.

i don't just believe in tipping. i believe in over-tipping, and i believe in tipping people that don't usually get tips. too many people work jobs where they catch crap from people every week. screw that. be the odd man out. be the one that leaves someone happy and wondering why you just crammed $5.00 in their paw.


So, you tip your urologist then?
 
2012-11-10 04:15:46 PM
Barista: made up word for coffee monkey.

I don't know why but that word pisses me off. Ooh I serve coffee, I'm better than a regular cashier or the other monkeys working at fast food places.
 
2012-11-10 04:35:52 PM

Honest Bender: Who tips a fast food worker?


No kidding. It seems to becoming a trend to have a tip jar for fast food. A friend of mine works at a regional fast food Mexican food chain here in CO and tried to tell me they deserved tips. At the drive through.
 
2012-11-10 04:44:09 PM
See this is why you just introduce a service charge to your bills. Granted Starbucks couldn't do this but if you want a more equitable sharing of the tips in a nice restaurant that's what you do. There is no reason that servers should make a couple hundred a night and the cooks make 80. Of course this can be horribly abused by management but I've worked a couple places where it is used to get the kitchen staff equal pay and provide bonuses for employees who went above and beyond that shift.
 
2012-11-10 06:14:43 PM

Intoxoman: It seems to becoming a trend to have a tip jar for fast food.


That's been around for a long time.
 
2012-11-10 07:00:49 PM
Seems like Starbucks needs to stop expecting their baristas to do management work without the management pay / title. Shift supervisor? Management, plain and simple.
 
2012-11-10 10:04:10 PM
Print version of TFA had a better headline: "Starbucks loses appeal".
 
2012-11-10 10:45:43 PM

Lith: I'm better than a regular cashier or the other monkeys working at fast food places.


As far as monkeys go, you are not exemplary.
 
2012-11-10 11:30:59 PM

natmar_76: I hate tipping, I like my steak well done with A1 sauce, beer sucks and tastes like crap, so does whiskey bourbon and scotch, Chicago Deep Dish > New York Cardboard Pizza, small tits are great, big women don't bother me, and teenage boys (and girls) sleeping with teachers is disgustingly bad and wrong.

Come at me.


I agree with 5/8 of those, am I a bad person?
 
2012-11-11 12:37:58 AM

Comsamvimes: natmar_76: I hate tipping, I like my steak well done with A1 sauce, beer sucks and tastes like crap, so does whiskey bourbon and scotch, Chicago Deep Dish > New York Cardboard Pizza, small tits are great, big women don't bother me, and teenage boys (and girls) sleeping with teachers is disgustingly bad and wrong.

Come at me.

I agree with 5/8 of those, am I a bad person?


If you agree that teenage boys sleeping with their teachers is bad, then yes. Yes you are. Otherwise, you're golden.

Alternatively, maybe that guy is resentful because he was just an ugly kid. *shrugs*
 
2012-11-11 12:55:18 AM
I'm a Sbux shift, getting a kick etc.

What I do is essentially being a leveled up barista. I have keys to open the store and to make sure the tills have money in them. I try to coordinate breaks. Sometimes I may do the bank deposit or place an order. I am getting paid a dollar or two more for a slight increase in responsibility. All of my work hours are spent on the floor with everyone else. I don't deal with schedules or payroll or budgets. Hell customer complaints I can just hand off to my manager because my authority extends to giving a refund or free drink (a normal barista also has this authority). Nothing else. It's a dumb law that punishes those who are slightly more responsible or better at their jobs and got recognized for it.

/sbux is an absolutely amazing place to work for if you're hourly
 
2012-11-11 12:58:48 AM
www.mediamouse.org

Approves
 
2012-11-11 01:05:51 AM

Intoxoman: Honest Bender: Who tips a fast food worker?

No kidding. It seems to becoming a trend to have a tip jar for fast food. A friend of mine works at a regional fast food Mexican food chain here in CO and tried to tell me they deserved tips. At the drive through.


So, Chipotle. What extra are they doing for your order to deserve a tip on a drive through order? Do they draw a heart in it every morning to try to tell you that they are available? Dump extra chipotle in your order? Add extra sauce? Not add extra sauce?
 
2012-11-11 01:20:20 AM
BTW, I think restaurant workers should be paid a fair wage and we shouldn't have to tip. (back of house gets screwed by the coke whore who is even hiding tips from the other barristas. WTF is a vente? Just give me the biggest cup, can't you see the size of my truck??)

/and provide an affordable wage and path for advancement
//and don't cut hours so someone has to have two jorbs.
///extra meat and cheese at Subway might make it worthwhile and I'd give YOU a tip extra cheesey, meaty Subway gloved handed girl
////oh and if you're the coke whore in the back sucking time just watching the security cameras and counting the cash at the end of shift, you don't get tipped out like the barristas do. Especially since we still have to move all the product, mop the floors, clean the machines without your help.
//and if you're the CEO of Starbucks, I think you should be able to start paying everyone a livable wage with healthcare. I know you do more than most, but seriously, $5.25 for one drink (pricing from quote above) is crazy.
 
2012-11-11 02:09:03 AM

KrispyKritter: employers that have their workers afraid to accept a gratuity piss me off. it's my damn business if i want to pass a fiver on to someone that helps me with their technical knowledge, lug a big box to my motor vehicle or simply makes me smile.

i don't just believe in tipping. i believe in over-tipping, and i believe in tipping people that don't usually get tips. too many people work jobs where they catch crap from people every week. screw that. be the odd man out. be the one that leaves someone happy and wondering why you just crammed $5.00 in their paw.

/life is too short.
//i just play a dooshbag on the internet, not in real life
///deadtom TY


Agreed. I don't know why my Professor got so upset when I tried to tip him $100 for a job well done in the last office hour before the final exam though.
 
2012-11-11 06:13:08 AM

un4gvn666: Comsamvimes: natmar_76: I hate tipping, I like my steak well done with A1 sauce, beer sucks and tastes like crap, so does whiskey bourbon and scotch, Chicago Deep Dish > New York Cardboard Pizza, small tits are great, big women don't bother me, and teenage boys (and girls) sleeping with teachers is disgustingly bad and wrong.

Come at me.

I agree with 5/8 of those, am I a bad person?

If you agree that teenage boys sleeping with their teachers is bad, then yes. Yes you are. Otherwise, you're golden.

Alternatively, maybe that guy is resentful because he was just an ugly kid. *shrugs*


If you look at the way he put that together, he's much more interested in guys coming at him than he is about the arguments themselves. That tells you exactly how any conversation will go. It also tells you that he's likely a bottom.
 
2012-11-11 09:42:24 AM
Tip? I'D GIVE HER THE WHOLE THING!!!
 
2012-11-11 09:53:55 AM

ski9600: BTW, I think restaurant workers should be paid a fair wage and we shouldn't have to tip. (back of house gets screwed by the coke whore who is even hiding tips from the other barristas. WTF is a vente? Just give me the biggest cup, can't you see the size of my truck??)

/and provide an affordable wage and path for advancement
//and don't cut hours so someone has to have two jorbs.
///extra meat and cheese at Subway might make it worthwhile and I'd give YOU a tip extra cheesey, meaty Subway gloved handed girl
////oh and if you're the coke whore in the back sucking time just watching the security cameras and counting the cash at the end of shift, you don't get tipped out like the barristas do. Especially since we still have to move all the product, mop the floors, clean the machines without your help.
//and if you're the CEO of Starbucks, I think you should be able to start paying everyone a livable wage with healthcare. I know you do more than most, but seriously, $5.25 for one drink (pricing from quote above) is crazy.


They get a fair wage on the west coast, but still want a tip.
 
2012-11-11 10:36:58 AM
Tip-sharing should be resolved in an after-hours poker game; participation optional.
 
2012-11-11 12:25:15 PM

Dracolich: If you look at the way he put that together, he's much more interested in guys coming at him than he is about the arguments themselves. That tells you exactly how any conversation will go. It also tells you that he's likely a bottom.


Look where your mind went. You, sir, are gay.
 
2012-11-11 08:45:59 PM

natmar_76: I hate tipping, I like my steak well done with A1 sauce, beer sucks and tastes like crap, so does whiskey bourbon and scotch, Chicago Deep Dish > New York Cardboard Pizza, small tits are great, big women don't bother me, and teenage boys (and girls) sleeping with teachers is disgustingly bad and wrong.

Come at me.


Do you live east or west of the MO river. As soon as the Amtrak train leaves, I will be coming at you bro(or sis).
 
2012-11-11 08:51:38 PM

kevinatilusa: KrispyKritter: employers that have their workers afraid to accept a gratuity piss me off. it's my damn business if i want to pass a fiver on to someone that helps me with their technical knowledge, lug a big box to my motor vehicle or simply makes me smile.

i don't just believe in tipping. i believe in over-tipping, and i believe in tipping people that don't usually get tips. too many people work jobs where they catch crap from people every week. screw that. be the odd man out. be the one that leaves someone happy and wondering why you just crammed $5.00 in their paw.

/life is too short.
//i just play a dooshbag on the internet, not in real life
///deadtom TY

Agreed. I don't know why my Professor got so upset when I tried to tip him $100 for a job well done in the last office hour before the final exam though.


If you made at $5.25, all that stuff you want for them would be $5.75 or $6.25. Numbers pulled from the keyboard, no real research done yet.
 
2012-11-11 09:43:19 PM

natmar_76: I hate tipping, I like my steak well done with A1 sauce, beer sucks and tastes like crap, so does whiskey bourbon and scotch, Chicago Deep Dish > New York Cardboard Pizza, small tits are great, big women don't bother me, and teenage boys (and girls) sleeping with teachers is disgustingly bad and wrong.

Come at me.


If you need steak sauce then you suck at cooking steak right.
 
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