Theaetetus: RoyBatty: Would it be accurate to paraphrase Cordelia Fine as saying, "wrt the brainz, there is no difference between men's and women's brainz?"

Nope.

This.

Browncoat: [www.meh.ro image 600x448]

That's right. Keep up that war on women for the next four years. It worked so well last week.

Oh no, women have different immune responses than men. Certainly this means they aren't as good in science and math.

draypresct: Theaetetus: RoyBatty: Would it be accurate to paraphrase Cordelia Fine as saying, "wrt the brainz, there is no difference between men's and women's brainz?"

Nope.

This.

And yet, neither you nor Theaetetus can offer anything other than "No".

Perhaps you can do us all the favor of explaining how Cordelia Fine is not saying there is no difference in the brains of men and women?

RoyBatty: draypresct: Theaetetus: RoyBatty: Would it be accurate to paraphrase Cordelia Fine as saying, "wrt the brainz, there is no difference between men's and women's brainz?"

Nope.

This.

And yet, neither you nor Theaetetus can offer anything other than "No".

Perhaps you can do us all the favor of explaining how Cordelia Fine is not saying there is no difference in the brains of men and women?

As of yet, I haven't seen any explanation of how RoyBatty is not saying that he has a special fetish for goats. Clearly, in the absence of any such explanation, we must assume that's what he's saying.

... Or we could be reasonable, rational people, and not make people jump through hoops to distance themselves from things they never said. Instead, as rational, reasonable people, when someone says, "person X is saying this irrational thing," we should respond by asking that person to prove that X ever said that, particularly if X isn't here to defend themselves from such baseless accusations.

... Or we could be like Roy.

Theaetetus: As of yet, I haven't seen any explanation of how RoyBatty is not saying that he has a special fetish for goats. Clearly, in the absence of any such explanation, we must assume that's what he's saying.

... Or we could be reasonable, rational people, and not make people jump through hoops to distance themselves from things they never said. Instead, as rational, reasonable people, when someone says, "person X is saying this irrational thing," we should respond by asking that person to prove that X ever said that, particularly if X isn't here to defend themselves from such baseless accusations.

... Or we could be like Roy.

First Theaetetus, before you go off crying to the admins to have me banned again for hurting your feelings, again, I hope you recognize you're the one that started this conversation.

Second,

Cordelia Fine is a Ph.D neuroscientist and psychologist and writes frequently in magazines and books about gender differences and the lack thereof in the brain, my asking you to demonstrate that she does not implicitly argue again and again that the male and female brains are not different is extremely germane and should be almost immediately obvious from reading any of her works.

However, instead of showing us using Fine's own works that Fine does not think that men and women's brains are mostly alike, which my actual clippings of Fine's work seem to demonstrate, you, immediately accuse me of having a goat fetish and saying I have to prove I do not, and say it is unreasonable of me to ask you to demonstrate something that Fine has never said.

So let's review, in response to a description of Fine in an interview as saying that she can't accept that boys and girls brains are as different as we assume, I ask, would it be accurate to paraphrase Cordelia Fine as saying, "wrt the brainz, there is no difference between men's and women's brainz?"

I would think this is a straight forward question and easy to answer by picking up her latest book and reading it.

But since you seem to find it difficult to argue that point, you end up forced to go back to your common methods of ad hominem.

So once more from Theaetetus, we see that when all else fails Theaetetus, lawyer, pounds his dick.

Maybe you should ban yourself from these threads Theaetetus, it's a lot better than crying to the admins.

RoyBatty: draypresct: Theaetetus: RoyBatty: Would it be accurate to paraphrase Cordelia Fine as saying, "wrt the brainz, there is no difference between men's and women's brainz?"

Nope.

This.

And yet, neither you nor Theaetetus can offer anything other than "No".

Perhaps you can do us all the favor of explaining how Cordelia Fine is not saying there is no difference in the brains of men and women?

The quote from the article you cite was that men's and women's brains aren't as different as we assume. You have interpreted this as "are identical", which is not what she said or meant.

You've spent the entire thread trying to attribute some utterly ridiculous positions to feminists. I'll suggest sitting down and having a beer with an actual, average, everyday feminist and finding out what their positions really are.

draypresct: And yet, despite certain people's fears, the author of the book has yet to be sued or harassed by the vast feminist movement that researchers apparently live in fear of.

Feminists, like Republicans, don't like statisticals.

Dr Dreidel: Thanks for lumping us all together, dick.

It's ok for feminists to do it about men. In my experience, feminists are the nastiest trolls you will ever run into. I posted a diary on DailyKos several years arguing that NOW-style feminism damaged the Democratic party and that business actually loved it. Reading the comments was like being whipped by angry scorpions. If I recall correctly there were a few useful comments that enabled me to refine my argument. The rest was a combination of "you go girl" to each other and raving hysteria so bad I wanted to hand out vibrator discount coupons.

Wait. Here's the link "Why Republicans love feminists."

Quantum Apostrophe: Well, women live longer for one. Almost as if there were female carbon atoms that know to age differently.

That's changing. Despite more males than females being born, life expectancy for American woman (especially poor uneducated women in the South) is declining. I haven't examined these issues in many years, so I can't confidently attribute it to more women entering the workforce and taking on risky and/or high stress jobs, but I would not be surprised to learn that it's an important factor.

Need_MindBleach: That was one hell of a strawpersonstrawchild.

FTFY

StoPPeRmobile: Need_MindBleach: That was one hell of a strawpersonstrawchild.

FTFY

damnit damnit damnit.

strawperchild

RoyBatty: Cordelia Fine is a Ph.D neuroscientist and psychologist and writes frequently in magazines and books about gender differences and the lack thereof in the brain

... No, she doesn't... which is why:
my asking you to demonstrate that she does not implicitly argue again and again that the male and female brains are not different is extremely
inane.

RoyBatty: However, instead of showing us using Fine's own works that Fine does not think that men and women's brains are mostly alike

As equally easy a task as showing us using Fine's own works that Fine does not think that RoyBatty loves goats. Since she never says it, reasonable people would assume she never intended to assert it. But then there's Roy - "if she's silent on something, she surely must have meant it!"

RoyBatty: you, immediately accuse me of having a goat fetish and saying I have to prove I do not, and say it is unreasonable of me to ask you to demonstrate something that Fine has never said.

Yes, Sparky. I'm making fun of you.
If that wasn't clear, I'm saying that "the likelihood of you having a goat fetish" and "Fine having said that men and women's brains have no differences whatsoever" are equal.

RoyBatty: So let's review, in response to a description of Fine in an interview as saying that she can't accept that boys and girls brains are as different as we assume

1) A "description"? So you acknowledge that she never said that? Shiat, then why are you trying so hard to put words in her mouth?
2) The words you're trying to put in her mouth are "she can't accept that boys and girls brains are as different as we assume," so why are you arguing that she's saying there are "no differences whatsoever"? Are you even sure what you're saying?
Shiat, Roy, I think it's time to get off the bottle. You're starting to worry me.

I ask, would it be accurate to paraphrase Cordelia Fine as saying, "wrt the brainz, there is no difference between men's and women's brainz?"

Nope. But we answered that already. Between this and the above, I'm really concerned for you.

RoyBatty: I would think this is a straight forward question and easy to answer by picking up her latest book and reading it.

Yes, you should do that. And maybe when you come back with page numbers and quotations rather than "descriptions of interviews", we'll stop saying "whoo, boy, there goes RoyBatty again, putting words in someone's mouth, lying about what they said. I wonder why he has such an agenda? What exactly is he trying to hide? What feelings of shame does he have, deep inside, that give rise to such hostility that he has to lash out at everyone around him? Doesn't he realize that if he could be honest for a change, both with us and with himself, he might finally find the peace that he's so scared doesn't exist? Poor Roy... Poor, poor Roy."

JericoPaladin: Here's a novel concept for many people:

"Man" != "male"

"Woman" != "female"

This is the central problem with this debate. The words are not interchangeable. A biological male is not necessarily a man. A biological female is not necessarily a woman.

It is willful myopia to say that differing genetics do not account for biological differences. I'm not sure anyone can argue that. What the argument typically entails is that we easily ascribe to unfounded biological differences what can often be ascribed to social or environmental factors... or at the very least, we don't know certain causes but like to posit that "it's just the difference between men and women!" and not "it's the difference we force between men and women".

When a feminist commenter uses the word "woman", it generally does refer to a female person, just statistically, but the concept she invokes is that of gender, not sex. When an opponent of that position is speaking, they use "woman" and "female" interchangeably, and confound the ideas of gender and sex. Obviously if you're not speaking the same language, you're going to argue nonsensically. The article makes no distinction between gender and sex, so it's arguing with a straw feminist that also makes no such distinction, despite the fact that the distinction is central to the debate.

Please, please, PLEASE create medical solutions based on my Y chromosome. I'm all for it. Male and female brains may have the tendency to have particular innate differences... but just like it may once have been stated, with no twing of humor, that housekeeping is "in a woman's blood", more subtly sexist commentary may be made today about neurological differences between sexes that don't actually exist. The contention is not that you can't tell the difference between males and females; it's that you should hold your horses before generalizing behaviors based on those differences.

We used to talk about behavioral differences between races, even going so far as to cal ...

How about no? This sounds like an argument for that "gender identity" bullshiat. It does not exist. Gender and sex are equivalent. They're the same damn thing. It's an exploitation of English's oversaturation of words if anything since there's too many out there that mean essentially the same thing. People are constantly trying to overcomplicate something that should be very simple. The ONLY thing that determines what sex/gender you are is biology/DNA/Anatomy. It's a physical trait and NOTHING else. What's in your head is completely and utterly irrelevant when making those determinations. When someone constantly wants to "identify" with another sex/gender that is soley a mental problem, not a problem with the body. Yet, people want to impose socio-political changes to the chemistry & science of our minds & bodies and that is just WRONG.

JericoPaladin: A biological male who lives life as a woman is a woman

Boys have a potato and girls have a potato.

there is no difference

I've never understood the problem between male/female. If you have a penis, you're a man. If you have a vagina, you're a woman. If you have both, you're a hermaphrodite. Why is this such a difficult concept?