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(Google)   A newly confident Obama sets the agenda for the next legislative session: Tax hikes to avoid the "fiscal cliff", an end to attempts to repeal "Obamacare" and, of course, immigration reform. Wait, did I say "Obama"? I meant "John Boehner"   (google.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, obama, obamacare, Boehner, immigration reform, United States, executive sessions  
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1573 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Nov 2012 at 11:24 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-09 10:27:59 AM  
I'm stunned at how quickly Boehner seems to be folding on all these issues. The question is, is he sincere, or is this a stunt to appear to make th GOP look reasonable and willing to compromise while he know he'll never actually get any of this past his own tea-bag wing?
 
2012-11-09 10:58:12 AM  
I don't get the urgency for immigration reform. Can't that wait until the next session and everyone is sworn in? It's a lame duck session. The only business they need to take care of is the stuff that has a deadline of 12/31. You know this fiscal cliff stuff.
 
2012-11-09 11:25:14 AM  
Judas!

/cantor is going to stab this guy right in the back
 
2012-11-09 11:26:23 AM  
I'll believe it when I see it.
 
2012-11-09 11:26:42 AM  

Magorn: I'm stunned at how quickly Boehner seems to be folding on all these issues. The question is, is he sincere, or is this a stunt to appear to make th GOP look reasonable and willing to compromise while he know he'll never actually get any of this past his own tea-bag wing?


money talks, and fiscal cliff is the biggest crisis right now
 
2012-11-09 11:27:07 AM  

Magorn: I'm stunned at how quickly Boehner seems to be folding on all these issues. The question is, is he sincere, or is this a stunt to appear to make th GOP look reasonable and willing to compromise while he know he'll never actually get any of this past his own tea-bag wing?


It's a trick. Get an axe.
 
2012-11-09 11:27:33 AM  
Just don't tax the booze!!
 
2012-11-09 11:27:52 AM  

Magorn: I'm stunned at how quickly Boehner seems to be folding on all these issues.


I honestly expected it. The teabagger ideals resulted in a total farking train wreck, and despite their policy failings there's more than enough writing on the walls for the GOP establishment to get that the same song and dance will result in an even stronger ass beating.
 
2012-11-09 11:29:16 AM  

sammyk: I don't get the urgency for immigration reform. Can't that wait until the next session and everyone is sworn in? It's a lame duck session. The only business they need to take care of is the stuff that has a deadline of 12/31. You know this fiscal cliff stuff.


I think they are panicking a bit regarding a legacy of latino democratic party voters. People develop voting habits and it is tough to change them.
 
2012-11-09 11:29:18 AM  

Magorn: I'm stunned at how quickly Boehner seems to be folding on all these issues.


The article doesn't really indicate he's folding at all, it actually still sounds like they're going to be almost the same obstinate jackasses they were the last two years. He's still saying that raising taxes on anyone is completely off the table, still doesn't say whether he'd support the Dream Act, and still says the goal is full repeal of Obamacare, he just realizes that trying to repeal it is a total waste of time to repeal since it wouldn't even reach the President's desk, and would get vetoed if it somehow did.

Granted, realizing that it is a total waste of time and deciding not to do it actually counts as improvement from the House Republicans.
 
2012-11-09 11:29:40 AM  
fta "Democrats in the Senate look forward to working with him to come up with a bipartisan solution seeing John Boehner driven before them and hearing the lamentations of his Teahadist biatches."
 
2012-11-09 11:30:03 AM  
Tax hikes?

"I made clear yesterday that raising tax rates is unacceptable, and frankly, it couldn't even pass the House," he said.

Doesn't sound like any ground is being given at all actually.
 
2012-11-09 11:32:35 AM  
Hmmm. Assume this means Boehner has no intention of trying to keep his seat in 2014?
 
2012-11-09 11:32:35 AM  

sammyk: I don't get the urgency for immigration reform. Can't that wait until the next session and everyone is sworn in? It's a lame duck session. The only business they need to take care of is the stuff that has a deadline of 12/31. You know this fiscal cliff stuff.


Agreed. No legitimate urgency. However, there might be a political urgency. The GOP have 2 years to re-invent themselves as a party. Immigration reform is now on hot shiat as an issue. The GOP can be perceived as following the Liberal lead or leading the push for it. If I was in charge of the GOP, I would make an immediate push immigration with Rubio leading the charge. They need to leap frog the DNC on this issue.

/won't happen though
 
2012-11-09 11:33:36 AM  

sprawl15: Magorn: I'm stunned at how quickly Boehner seems to be folding on all these issues.

I honestly expected it. The teabagger ideals resulted in a total farking train wreck, and despite their policy failings there's more than enough writing on the walls for the GOP establishment to get that the same song and dance will result in an even stronger ass beating.


That much is true, but, the question is, are the baggers smart/pragmatic enough to realize it? The concessions suprised me beceause I think Boehner's having to look over his shoulder right now. I wouldn't put it past Cantor to try to stage a coup and make a run at the speaker's gavel, and if he can count on a solid block of tea-bag folks to support his run, then all he needs is enough disgruntled old bulls who will vote for change for change's sake to tip things his way
 
2012-11-09 11:33:46 AM  
That is because while he may be a partisan tool, Boehner is not a farking moron tea-bagger. He is a career politician and has been in the House since 1991. He sees that the majority of electorate will not put up with the BS that has been going on the past two years. Pundits and political fundamentalists may double down on the derp and try to go more right, but someone that has been in an at least State wide elected office since 1985 knows what direction to move in to save his own ass.
 
2012-11-09 11:34:03 AM  

Magorn: I'm stunned at how quickly Boehner seems to be folding on all these issues. The question is, is he sincere, or is this a stunt to appear to make th GOP look reasonable and willing to compromise while he know he'll never actually get any of this past his own tea-bag wing?


I'm not.

The whole past 4 years of brick-wall obstructionism was entirely a ploy to make Obama a one-term president.

The House GOP went all in. They gambled and they lost. And they know they lost. Now that they have failed at their #1 political goal, there's no use in going forward with that strategy any more. Time to try a different tact.
 
2012-11-09 11:34:30 AM  
Obama: "I'll repeal the tax increases on tanning saloons if you agree to increase income taxes to the Clinton era"

Boehner: "Deal".
 
2012-11-09 11:35:39 AM  
Sorry to burst the bubble, but Boehnor isn't going to agree to any tax increases. He's repeatedly said that, and reiterated that in TFA. He just wants to kiss up to the hispanic population because he thinks all the Republicans need to do is keep digging us in to a hole with the same policies - only to put on a fake spanish accent while they do it. The reality of the situation, math and the will of the people make no difference to him. Boehnor will simply not raise taxes on himself or his buddies no matter how much it hurts the country.

And he hasn't changed his mind on Obamacare, he just realizes the reality that he won't have the power to do anything about it any more.

So, same asshole, just now he found a demographic he thinks he needs to pander to and will end up patronizing instead.
 
2012-11-09 11:36:18 AM  
see, all you need to do for compromise is remind someone that their party is on deaths door
 
2012-11-09 11:37:56 AM  

Magorn: That much is true, but, the question is, are the baggers smart/pragmatic enough to realize it? The concessions suprised me beceause I think Boehner's having to look over his shoulder right now. I wouldn't put it past Cantor to try to stage a coup and make a run at the speaker's gavel, and if he can count on a solid block of tea-bag folks to support his run, then all he needs is enough disgruntled old bulls who will vote for change for change's sake to tip things his way


At this point, a backstab by the tea party is inevitable. The only question is if the GOP will give them enough leverage to let them successfully pull off a coup; if they start nipping that shiat in the bud right now they may have a chance of becoming a relevant party in 4 years.
 
2012-11-09 11:38:37 AM  

sammyk: I don't get the urgency for immigration reform. Can't that wait until the next session and everyone is sworn in? It's a lame duck session. The only business they need to take care of is the stuff that has a deadline of 12/31. You know this fiscal cliff stuff.


Hopefully Boehner is going to press hard for the rational thing to do, and the "immigration reform" is him starting to barter.

"Ok ok ok... We'll drop the immigration reform, come back to appealing Obamacare later, but keep the tax hikes. Let's get this passed to avoid the fiscal cliff."

Sadly, this could be entirely possible, but it should be the Democrats doing it to the Republicans - not the sane Republicans doing it to themselves to strong-arm the insane Republicans.
 
2012-11-09 11:40:31 AM  

hugram: Obama: "I'll repeal the tax increases on tanning saloons if you agree to increase income taxes to the Clinton era"

Boehner: "Deal".


Well of course. He'd save a boatload of money that way.
 
2012-11-09 11:42:01 AM  
Now, with Republican soul-searching in the aftermath of the election, immigration is seen as one way to frame the party as more inclusive of Latinos, the fastest-growing ethnic group in the United States.

Old religious white people are dying off. They have to do something to bolster their numbers. In the past they have been able to, for the most part, count on latinos not showing up and of the ones that did there was a segment of them that were religious as well. That isn't working out for them. The face of the GoP will have to change dramaticly if they want to maintain relevance.
 
2012-11-09 11:42:24 AM  

Magorn: I'm stunned at how quickly Boehner seems to be folding on all these issues. The question is, is he sincere, or is this a stunt to appear to make th GOP look reasonable and willing to compromise while he know he'll never actually get any of this past his own tea-bag wing?


On immigration, I have to say you are correct. On taxes, I must disagree. Boehner's position today is the same as his position last week, which is the same as the tea party position, which is the same as the Romney position: Keep all the Bush tax cuts, and close "loopholes", which they refuse to identify, and which are mathematically impossible to raise the amount of revenue they claim without magic and pixie dust. Same shiat, different Congress.
 
2012-11-09 11:43:14 AM  

mongbiohazard: Sorry to burst the bubble, but Boehnor isn't going to agree to any tax increases. He's repeatedly said that, and reiterated that in TFA. He just wants to kiss up to the hispanic population because he thinks all the Republicans need to do is keep digging us in to a hole with the same policies - only to put on a fake spanish accent while they do it. The reality of the situation, math and the will of the people make no difference to him. Boehnor will simply not raise taxes on himself or his buddies no matter how much it hurts the country.


But he no longer has the power to stop them. This is key- there's no vote that needs to happen, no bill to pass to eliminate the Bush tax cuts. If Boehnor decides to stonewall or pass only Tea-party dream legislation, all Obama has to do is stand back and let us go over the fiscal cliff.

He can then turn around and loudly call for the House to lower taxes on folks making less than $250K. Boehnor's then screwed- he either accepts the deal and looks weak or stonewalls again and gets painted as the guy who refuses to lower taxes during a recession when people are hurting. If he's smart (and I think he actually does have some functional brain cells) he'll work out some sort of deal ASAP where he can keep some face.
 
2012-11-09 11:43:46 AM  
I think he just wants to play a game of kick-the-can.
 
2012-11-09 11:44:42 AM  

Magorn: sprawl15: Magorn: I'm stunned at how quickly Boehner seems to be folding on all these issues.

I honestly expected it. The teabagger ideals resulted in a total farking train wreck, and despite their policy failings there's more than enough writing on the walls for the GOP establishment to get that the same song and dance will result in an even stronger ass beating.

That much is true, but, the question is, are the baggers smart/pragmatic enough to realize it? The concessions suprised me beceause I think Boehner's having to look over his shoulder right now. I wouldn't put it past Cantor to try to stage a coup and make a run at the speaker's gavel, and if he can count on a solid block of tea-bag folks to support his run, then all he needs is enough disgruntled old bulls who will vote for change for change's sake to tip things his way



Ummm, what concessions? Immigration reform is the only thing they're now putting on the table. That's it, and only because they myopically think the only reason they lost the election was because they didn't patronize hispanic peole enough.

Both McConnell and Boehnor have both made statements indicating that they're just as committed to their policies as they've always been. They're basically saying, "Yeah, we are open to working with Democrats to get things done...... so long as they do everything we want and nothing they want."

There is no new spirit of compromise on the R side, and I guarantee you my former party is going to dig their heels in and be even MORE obstructionist then they've been the last four years. The most we can hope for is that a few Republicans break ranks, but even that hope is slim because they'll probably be removed by the party in the primaries.

Just watch. They're going to stonewall like mad for the next two years, while trying to lamely pander to hispanics, in hope of making gains in the 2014 mid-terms by running on "See, Obama and the Democrats have done nothing" platform... never mentioning that they're the ones who've been essentially holding the country hostage. If you thought they were obstructionist before I guarantee you haven't seen anything yet.

Which would be fine if Harry Reed wasn't such a useless doormat and Pelosi such an idiot.
 
2012-11-09 11:44:51 AM  
Boehner needs to guarantee he has the power to negotiate a plan or Obama needs to talk to someone from Congress who does. Last time Boehner and Obama worked something out Boehner had to withdraw support after realizing he couldn't deliver the votes.
 
2012-11-09 11:45:00 AM  
In the same ABC interview, Boehner hinted he was ready to drop Republican opposition to Obama's health care reforms.

Asked whether he would seek to fully repeal Obama's signature piece of legislation, Boehner said "the election changes that."

He later indicated in a message on Twitter that Republicans still oppose the changes and want the legislation reversed.

"ObamaCare is law of the land, but it is raising costs & threatening jobs. Our goal has been, and will remain, #fullrepeal," Boehner wrote.


Completely opposite messages depending on the audience? No way!
 
2012-11-09 11:45:51 AM  
i1.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-11-09 11:49:13 AM  

mongbiohazard: Just watch.


Oh, I will.

The GOP are caught in a very bad place right now, they could easily go the other way and commit suicide, but I'm pretty sure that their instinct of self preservation will kick in sometime soon. Probably when they run out of people to blame for the election.
 
2012-11-09 11:49:24 AM  
I think it's a trap. Bonner keeps saying " We're ready to be led." & " Will let the President lead." When the shiat hits he's just gonna say " Fartbama no Leader!". Fartbongo should just start vetoing everything, make the Republican controlled House of Representin' vote FOR something, the MSMLSDMEDIA then can report how the House had to override Fartbongo to pass the largest spending bill in the history of Fartmerica, then use that against them in the next House election. And the Lib's should start talkin about putting Husseins face on Mt. Barackmore or the Fifty dollar bill, Be sure to post on your Obamabook page how you got a really cool smartObamaphone. I posted that my Obamaphone was samsung galaxy3, heads were 'splodin'
 
2012-11-09 11:50:44 AM  
The fight over tax increases will fark up all this rhetoric.

Both sides seem committed to a Mayan Calendar strategy.
 
2012-11-09 11:50:54 AM  
www.pmags.com

/damnyouautocorrect
 
2012-11-09 11:51:40 AM  

Glockenspiel Hero: But he no longer has the power to stop them. This is key- there's no vote that needs to happen, no bill to pass to eliminate the Bush tax cuts. If Boehnor decides to stonewall or pass only Tea-party dream legislation, all Obama has to do is stand back and let us go over the fiscal cliff.

He can then turn around and loudly call for the House to lower taxes on folks making less than $250K. Boehnor's then screwed- he either accepts the deal and looks weak or stonewalls again and gets painted as the guy who refuses to lower taxes during a recession when people are hurting. If he's smart (and I think he actually does have some functional brain cells) he'll work out some sort of deal ASAP where he can keep some face.



I think you're being very optimistic. The "fiscal cliff" as they are calling it is a crude plan and has consequences for inaction. Sure the Bush tax cuts will expire, but the CBO is confident that there will be other consequences and the economy is going to get pushed back in to recession. It would be better to adjust the tax code and budget properly.

But what I predict the Republicans are going to try is to stonewall and watch the country get knocked back in to recession so they can claim that it's all the Democrats fault in the 2014 midterms, and try to gobble up more power in the legislature. They absolutely do not care who is hurt so long as they have a chance to try and pin it on the president however they can.
 
2012-11-09 11:53:01 AM  

mongbiohazard: Which would be fine if Harry Reed wasn't such a useless doormat and Pelosi such an idiot.


Agree with everything you said, except this. Harry Reid is a useless bowl of jelly, but in the two years she was in charge, Pelosi got just about everything on the agenda passed, and Republicans in the Senate filibustered all of it (see Reid). I believe there were something like 200 bills that passed the House in 09-10 that stalled in the Senate.
 
2012-11-09 11:53:18 AM  

Glockenspiel Hero: He can then turn around and loudly call for the House to lower taxes on folks making less than $250K. Boehnor's then screwed- he either accepts the deal and looks weak or stonewalls again and gets painted as the guy who refuses to lower taxes during a recession when people are hurting. If he's smart (and I think he actually does have some functional brain cells) he'll work out some sort of deal ASAP where he can keep some face


He passes a full continuance of the Obama/Bush tax cuts and when it is killed in the senate he is going to scream that the dems raised your taxes with their intransigence.
 
2012-11-09 11:56:16 AM  

Magorn: I'm stunned at how quickly Boehner seems to be folding on all these issues. The question is, is he sincere, or is this a stunt to appear to make th GOP look reasonable and willing to compromise while he know he'll never actually get any of this past his own tea-bag wing?


I worry it's not sincere, since his "folding is" we'll meet the president half way, then they reject the president's move their way and go further right.

There is a comic about this out there, but I cannot find it.
 
2012-11-09 11:57:49 AM  
Tax hikes to avoid the "fiscal cliff",

What do you think the "fiscal cliff" is, that tax hikes would prevent it?
 
2012-11-09 11:58:53 AM  

Tamater: I'll believe it when I see it.


Exactly. I saw him on Fox News an hour ago towing the "closed loopholes and lower tax rates = more revenue" line.
 
2012-11-09 11:59:10 AM  

sprawl15: mongbiohazard: Just watch.

Oh, I will.

The GOP are caught in a very bad place right now, they could easily go the other way and commit suicide, but I'm pretty sure that their instinct of self preservation will kick in sometime soon. Probably when they run out of people to blame for the election.



But remember the GOP reality distortion field. What you and I think they need to do for self-preservation isn't the same thing as what THEY think they need to do for self-preservation. Which would be fine if so many people weren't going to suffer for their delusional intransigence in the meantime.

And please don't assume that this strategy WILL turn out bad for them. They may very well do so much damage with procedural shenanigans again that this time their counter-factual narrative about how what they've done is actually the Democrats fault may work better in the mid terms. The D's won't have Obama - or a POTUS candidate - to rally behind, and few regular Americans actually have a clue as to the extent of the legislative terrorism the Republican party has been performing in congress. Few regular people have any clue about committee procedure, cloture votes and etc...
 
2012-11-09 11:59:56 AM  
No subtard Boehner has doubled down on Bush tax cuts being extended again:

Raising tax rates is "unacceptable" to House Speaker John Boehner as he prepares to open negotiations on the looming "fiscal cliff" with the president and congressional Democrats, he told "World News" anchor Diane Sawyer today in an exclusive interview.

"Raising tax rates is unacceptable," Boehner, R-Ohio, said in his first broadcast interview since the election Tuesday.

"Frankly, it couldn't even pass the House. I'm not sure it could pass the Senate."
 
2012-11-09 12:00:17 PM  
When a watered down version of the DREAM Act made it to the Senate in 2010, it was struck down by the GOP with only 3 Senators crossing the aisle to vote for it... Richard Lugar of Indiana, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Bob Bennett Utah. All three have since been primaried and defeated within the GOP over it.


GOP politicians might pay some vague lip service to it, but they aren't touching immigration reform with a 1000 foot pole. It's completely toxic to their racist old white base.
 
2012-11-09 12:00:28 PM  

miltonbabbitt: Tamater: I'll believe it when I see it.

Exactly. I saw him on Fox News an hour ago towing the "closed loopholes and lower tax rates = more revenue" line.


Which is a true statement. It just is not possible to meet Romney type numbers.
 
2012-11-09 12:03:09 PM  

miltonbabbitt: Tamater: I'll believe it when I see it.

Exactly. I saw him on Fox News an hour ago towing the "closed loopholes and lower tax rates = more revenue" line.


I'm guessing Fox News didn't ask him to clarify what those unspecified "loopholes" are.
 
2012-11-09 12:03:34 PM  

mongbiohazard: But remember the GOP reality distortion field. What you and I think they need to do for self-preservation isn't the same thing as what THEY think they need to do for self-preservation.


There's more than enough people floating around pissed off at the teabaggers for ruining it for the distortion field to be breached. It's just a question of if the people pulling the strings agree with them or not.

FOX garotting Karl Rove on live television is a pretty good sign that there's at least a chance.
 
2012-11-09 12:05:13 PM  

Arkanaut: Tax hikes to avoid the "fiscal cliff",

What do you think the "fiscal cliff" is, that tax hikes would prevent it?


When I hear it as a prevention measure, it means that we leave the lower 4 brackets alone, and let the upper 2 expire.
 
2012-11-09 12:06:23 PM  

shroom: mongbiohazard: Which would be fine if Harry Reed wasn't such a useless doormat and Pelosi such an idiot.

Agree with everything you said, except this. Harry Reid is a useless bowl of jelly, but in the two years she was in charge, Pelosi got just about everything on the agenda passed, and Republicans in the Senate filibustered all of it (see Reid). I believe there were something like 200 bills that passed the House in 09-10 that stalled in the Senate.



That's fine, then forget I said that. I'm just not confident whatsoever in the D's ability to counter this strategy. The R's are using procedures and tactics in congress that most of the voting public doesn't understand, and probably doesn't WANT to understand. And I don't think the D leadership has the backbone or type of leaders in the legislatiure who could have any chance of effectively countering it.

Even if Pelosi gets everything passed she needs to in the house it still doesn't mean squat if the Republicans can fillibuster it all and then blame the Democrats for doing nothing. Obama won on his own merits, and the gains that the D's made were riding that wave. But without that in 2014 the - perfectly logical and truthful - explanation that the Republicans kept killing the bills they tried to pass with fillibusters and procedural moves in committee will most likely fall on deaf ears.
 
2012-11-09 12:07:51 PM  

InmanRoshi: When a watered down version of the DREAM Act made it to the Senate in 2010, it was struck down by the GOP with only 3 Senators crossing the aisle to vote for it... Richard Lugar of Indiana, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Bob Bennett Utah. All three have since been primaried and defeated within the GOP over it.


GOP politicians might pay some vague lip service to it, but they aren't touching immigration reform with a 1000 foot pole. It's completely toxic to their racist old white base.


Well if your against blanket amnesty then that makes you a racist brown-baby killer. Right?
 
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