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(Slate)   On Tuesday night, Democrats swept the Presidential and Senate elections, but despite more total votes for Democratic candidates, the solid Republican house majority was saved by the heroic actions of one man, Mr. Gerry Mander   (slate.com) divider line 132
    More: Hero, Democrats, Senate, Republican, democratic  
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2781 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Nov 2012 at 9:31 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-09 03:33:43 AM
Hero tag? Really? More like Fail for subby.
 
2012-11-09 03:42:38 AM
fishbowl.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com

What democratic gerrymandering might look like

Simple solution - follow the Iowa model. Pass a national law that counties cannot be broken up by a number greater than the number of districts. 8 districts = 8 counties can be divided.
 
2012-11-09 05:54:22 AM
Meh, both sides do it. The only solution is mathmatical modeling based on census data.
 
2012-11-09 07:34:50 AM
Wantna real kick in the ass? Minorities and the GOP both like gerrymandering that ensures minority candidates win seats in congress. The GOP likes it because then they can put so many Democrats in one district, they end up with an 8-3 split in VA rather than a 6-5. Even Jim Moran, given nothing but Northern VA liberals, got just shy of 60% of the vote. Bobby Scott got over 80%. Sure, it guarantees a black congressman from VA. But it costs at LEAST one other Democrat.
 
2012-11-09 07:37:33 AM

vygramul: Minorities and the GOP


Wait, aren't the GOP a minority?
 
2012-11-09 08:00:07 AM
Ridiculous gerrymandering in Pennsylvania was okay until Jack Murtha died.
 
2012-11-09 09:27:28 AM
I see it didn't take long for conservatives to start with the "BUT BUT DEMOCRATS"
 
2012-11-09 09:33:23 AM
I woke Wednesday and it looked a lot like Tuesday.
 
2012-11-09 09:34:09 AM
The district concept is flawed and needs to be reworked. Land does not need representation, people do.
 
2012-11-09 09:34:35 AM

Aarontology: I see it didn't take long for conservatives to start with the "BUT BUT DEMOCRATS"


Which is elegantly countered with "WELL LET'S farkING FIX IT, THEN!"
 
2012-11-09 09:34:50 AM

Nofun: Meh, both sides do it. The only solution is mathmatical modeling based on census data.


Real Americans go with their gut.
 
2012-11-09 09:35:02 AM
Our system is so farked.
 
2012-11-09 09:35:41 AM

themindiswatching: Hero tag? Really? More like Fail for subby.


I would have gone with Obvious.
 
2012-11-09 09:37:39 AM
And, I'm convinced, it's the reason our favorite tea partiers have made it as far as they have. Make the general election uncompetitive and the election is decided by the extreme wings of the party who bother to show up at the primary. If the general election was competitive, there'd be an incentive to moderate their choice.
 
2012-11-09 09:38:51 AM

Gulper Eel: Ridiculous gerrymandering in Pennsylvania was okay until Jack Murtha died.


No, it's never been okay, but good job trying to deflect attention away from your own party who is only desperately clinging to relevancy via gerrymandering and election tampering.

Maybe you ought to just pull down your pants and moon everybody. With the spanking you just got your ass ought to be a huge, bright red distraction.
 
2012-11-09 09:39:03 AM

Nofun: Meh, both sides do it. The only solution is mathmatical modeling based on census data.


This is the biggest lie ever told in US politics. BOTH PARTIES ARE EQUALLY AS BAD. No, they aren't. States like PA and OH have no business having like 4 D districts.
 
2012-11-09 09:39:39 AM

themindiswatching: Hero tag? Really? More like Fail for subby.


Misuse of the Hero tag is how all the cool kids are getting greens these days.
 
2012-11-09 09:40:52 AM
If the per-capita number of members of the House was the same now as in the first Congress there would be over 8000 Representatives. Smaller districts, by the very nature, would be more homogenous and more clearly represent the interests of the populace of that district. It would also allow regular people to run for Congress.
 
2012-11-09 09:41:15 AM

Gulper Eel: Ridiculous gerrymandering in Pennsylvania was okay until Jack Murtha died.


So is gerrymandering good or bad?
 
2012-11-09 09:41:44 AM
It would be really lovely if they could fix this. Also on the wishlist: non-filibuster filibusters, and attaching bullshiat unrelated legislation or poison pills into must-pass bills.
 
2012-11-09 09:42:28 AM

Aarontology: I see it didn't take long for conservatives to start with the "BUT BUT DEMOCRATS"


This is one of those issues where it really is a both sides are pretty much the same thing. I generally vote Dem but it's absolutely ridiculous. One of the guys who just one in Chicago was on public radio literally thanking the state legislature for giving him a winning district.

I'm personally for abolishing districts all together and doing party line multi party voting by state. e.g. if Texas wants to vote 15% Libertarian, 15% of their delegation is Libertarian. It also prevents turds from cementing their place because they were able to convince the DoD to buy from a plant in a county with no people making everyone happy and employed.
 
2012-11-09 09:42:43 AM
Three words.

Independent redistricting panels.
 
2012-11-09 09:43:07 AM

Triumph: [fishbowl.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com image 402x226]

What democratic gerrymandering might look like

Simple solution - follow the Iowa model. Pass a national law that counties cannot be broken up by a number greater than the number of districts. 8 districts = 8 counties can be divided.


That's sounds pretty stupid to me. Consider this, the state of Iowa has 3 million people.
Los Angeles county has 10 million and is almost 5,000 square miles. Does a hard limit of 8 really sound like a good idea?
 
2012-11-09 09:43:11 AM
Feed it into a computer program designed to have it draw the best maps with population size and density in mind, targeting as square as you can get, see what comes out
 
2012-11-09 09:44:08 AM

AkaDad: Three words.

Independent redistricting panels.


I'm pretty sure CA took this up in 08 or '10, but I don't know if we have done anything with it yet.

\utterly useless comment by me =/
 
2012-11-09 09:44:40 AM

Wellon Dowd: If the per-capita number of members of the House was the same now as in the first Congress there would be over 8000 Representatives. Smaller districts, by the very nature, would be more homogenous and more clearly represent the interests of the populace of that district. It would also allow regular people to run for Congress.


QFT. The House needs to increase in membership, but both parties and lobbyists hate that idea.
 
2012-11-09 09:44:50 AM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: No, it's never been okay, but good job trying to deflect attention away from your own party who is only desperately clinging to relevancy via gerrymandering and election tampering.


I voted for Gary Johnson, so I'm not sure who you're talking about.

Good job trying to deflect attention away from a crook like the late congressman, though.
 
2012-11-09 09:45:56 AM
In Virginia all 11 House members were reelected, only one of them with less than 55% of the vote.

That ain't right.
 
2012-11-09 09:46:45 AM
We tried to fix this in Ohio but Issue 2 got defeated, damn it.
 
2012-11-09 09:46:57 AM

whither_apophis: Wellon Dowd: If the per-capita number of members of the House was the same now as in the first Congress there would be over 8000 Representatives. Smaller districts, by the very nature, would be more homogenous and more clearly represent the interests of the populace of that district. It would also allow regular people to run for Congress.

QFT. The House needs to increase in membership, but both parties and lobbyists hate that idea.


I'd love to see the Koch brothers trying to but 8000 races.
 
2012-11-09 09:47:01 AM

Wellon Dowd: If the per-capita number of members of the House was the same now as in the first Congress there would be over 8000 Representatives. Smaller districts, by the very nature, would be more homogenous and more clearly represent the interests of the populace of that district. It would also allow regular people to run for Congress.


I could go for this.
 
2012-11-09 09:47:12 AM
Headline: "How Ridiculous Gerrymanders Saved the House Republican Majority"

TFA: "To be perfectly fair, Democrats played the same game in Illinois and Maryland, squeezing out suburban Republicans by packing just enough of Cook County and Montgomery County, respectively, into their districts."
 
2012-11-09 09:48:20 AM

CPennypacker: The district concept is flawed and needs to be reworked. Land does not need representation, people do.


And this is exactly why congressional districts are drawn the way they are. Those boundaries that look so artificial on the map are intended to follow demographic, not geographical, contours. As much as I regret the present Republican majority in Congress, I think people who point at oddly shaped congressional districts as though they represent some tragic flaw in the system are being kind of dumb.
 
2012-11-09 09:48:55 AM

Gulper Eel: Good job trying to deflect attention away from a crook like the late congressman, though.


First of all, the man is dead and isn't going to win any more elections so I'm unclear why you're harping on him when he has nothing to do with TFA or election (no, just kidding, actually I'm not, it's because you're horribly dishonest). Second of all, what part of "it's never been okay" is too complicated for you? Do I need to break it down syllable by syllable for you to understand it or would that still be too much for your feeble mind? Finally, don't think you're fulling anybody with your libertarian bullshiat, you're a "Fark Independent" and everybody here knows it.
 
2012-11-09 09:49:20 AM
Amateurs all. Texas has one congressional district that is 600 miles long, stretching from the outskirts of Laredo to the outskirts of El Paso. And yes, the loser is contesting the election. Not that the Koch brothers, Adelson, Scaifes are that focused on winning.  There must be some product they find of value there.
 
2012-11-09 09:51:20 AM

BMulligan: CPennypacker: The district concept is flawed and needs to be reworked. Land does not need representation, people do.

And this is exactly why congressional districts are drawn the way they are. Those boundaries that look so artificial on the map are intended to follow demographic, not geographical, contours. As much as I regret the present Republican majority in Congress, I think people who point at oddly shaped congressional districts as though they represent some tragic flaw in the system are being kind of dumb.


They are drawn by partisans. The states are enough of a geographical divisor. Just take how many seats the state has and let everyone vote for their top 2 or 3 candidates. If a state has 12 seats the top 12 voted-for candidates get the seats. This way everyone's voice is heard.
 
2012-11-09 09:51:30 AM
Proportionally-elected statewide Congressional delegations.

That's all I have to say about it.
 
2012-11-09 09:51:47 AM

Uchiha_Cycliste: Los Angeles county has 10 million and is almost 5,000 square miles. Does a hard limit of 8 really sound like a good idea?


You do realize that because California has 55 electoral votes, that means up to 55 counties can be divided in CA.
 
2012-11-09 09:52:59 AM

Gulper Eel: Wellon Dowd: If the per-capita number of members of the House was the same now as in the first Congress there would be over 8000 Representatives. Smaller districts, by the very nature, would be more homogenous and more clearly represent the interests of the populace of that district. It would also allow regular people to run for Congress.

I could go for this.


My god, what a farking awful idea. If you think Congress is an unworkable mess now, just wait until it's sixteen times bigger.
 
2012-11-09 09:53:08 AM
Maryland districts are highly gerrymandered. Within 3 miles of my house, I can cross 4 different congressional districts. Between my kids school and my house I cross 3.

In Maryland there was a question on the ballot asking if you wanted to reject the map and replace it. It passed rather handily. However it was simply a rejection of the current districts. There is nothing to prevent the governer from simply submitting the same map again.
 
2012-11-09 09:54:07 AM

Gulper Eel: Wellon Dowd: If the per-capita number of members of the House was the same now as in the first Congress there would be over 8000 Representatives. Smaller districts, by the very nature, would be more homogenous and more clearly represent the interests of the populace of that district. It would also allow regular people to run for Congress.

I could go for this.


Agreed, it would allow for a legislative body that actually represents the populous. It would also be a lot harder for big money to buy 8000 politicians.
 
2012-11-09 09:54:11 AM

Wellon Dowd: If the per-capita number of members of the House was the same now as in the first Congress there would be over 8000 Representatives. Smaller districts, by the very nature, would be more homogenous and more clearly represent the interests of the populace of that district. It would also allow regular people to run for Congress.


Yes, but that would mean the Democrats would take clear control for the forseeable future, which is unfair.
 
2012-11-09 09:56:00 AM

BMulligan: Gulper Eel: Wellon Dowd: If the per-capita number of members of the House was the same now as in the first Congress there would be over 8000 Representatives. Smaller districts, by the very nature, would be more homogenous and more clearly represent the interests of the populace of that district. It would also allow regular people to run for Congress.

I could go for this.

My god, what a farking awful idea. If you think Congress is an unworkable mess now, just wait until it's sixteen times bigger.


Actually, the house generally moves legislation through smoothly since all bills have a firm time limit on amendments and discussion. It's the Senate that's intractable.
 
2012-11-09 09:57:43 AM

Fail in Human Form: We tried to fix this in Ohio but Issue 2 got defeated, damn it.


Not only defeated, but drubbed. Wasn't it like 75-25 against?
 
2012-11-09 09:58:43 AM

Terlis: Uchiha_Cycliste: Los Angeles county has 10 million and is almost 5,000 square miles. Does a hard limit of 8 really sound like a good idea?

You do realize that because California has 55 electoral votes, that means up to 55 counties can be divided in CA.


I'm speaking solely to the idea that a county should be restricted to 8 districts. It's a foolish idea as it in no way takes into account population density. I am aware of California's overall representative potential.
If you go by pure population, LA country should have 14 or 15 representatives, not a max of 8.
 
2012-11-09 10:00:29 AM

Derwood: Fail in Human Form: We tried to fix this in Ohio but Issue 2 got defeated, damn it.

Not only defeated, but drubbed. Wasn't it like 75-25 against?


No 2,920,450 64% (X)
Yes 1,666,192 36%
 
2012-11-09 10:01:20 AM
In 2014 the Republicans will have 13 Senators up for reelection. The Democrats will have 20. Six of those Democrats are in red states, and seven are in swing states. On the House side, Republican only need to win 1/3 of the competitive seats to stay in control. That all sounds bad for the Democrats. However, the Republicans are nuts and have already vowed to double down on the Ryan plan and their rape-rape thing. So the Democrats have that going for them, which is nice.

When the Democrats retake the House in 2014, I'm looking forward to Alan Grayson (D-FL) reintroducing his Public Option Act. It lets anyone buy into Medicare. It's as close as we're going to get to single payer.
 
2012-11-09 10:01:36 AM

BMulligan: Gulper Eel: Wellon Dowd: If the per-capita number of members of the House was the same now as in the first Congress there would be over 8000 Representatives. Smaller districts, by the very nature, would be more homogenous and more clearly represent the interests of the populace of that district. It would also allow regular people to run for Congress.

I could go for this.

My god, what a farking awful idea. If you think Congress is an unworkable mess now, just wait until it's sixteen times bigger.


Legalize dueling and make C-Span a pay per view channel.

Good times all around!
 
2012-11-09 10:02:46 AM
Liberals should really give up this whining about gerrymandering because liberals do exactly the same thing every time they get the chance. Doesn't make it right by any stretch of the imagination, but clutching at pearls and hand wringing about the Republicans doing it is pretty hypocritical.
 
2012-11-09 10:04:26 AM

CPennypacker: BMulligan: CPennypacker: The district concept is flawed and needs to be reworked. Land does not need representation, people do.

And this is exactly why congressional districts are drawn the way they are. Those boundaries that look so artificial on the map are intended to follow demographic, not geographical, contours. As much as I regret the present Republican majority in Congress, I think people who point at oddly shaped congressional districts as though they represent some tragic flaw in the system are being kind of dumb.

They are drawn by partisans. The states are enough of a geographical divisor. Just take how many seats the state has and let everyone vote for their top 2 or 3 candidates. If a state has 12 seats the top 12 voted-for candidates get the seats. This way everyone's voice is heard.


And when I want to go down to my congressman's neighborhood office and speak to a policy assistant, maybe even make an appointment to speak directly to my representative, which of those 12 at-large representatives represents me? None of them, that's who. "Having a voice" doesn't mean voting; it means influencing my representative's vote by letting my voice be heard. I can do that under the current system, but not under the system you're proposing.
 
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