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(Orlando Sentinel)   "I have gotten calls from all over the country asking why we can't run elections"   (orlandosentinel.com) divider line 42
    More: Florida, President Obama, florida, hanging chads, Delaware Democratic Party, provisional ballot, Miami-Dade  
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2383 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Nov 2012 at 10:28 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-09 09:48:12 AM
Solid question.

They have got to be pissed. Last couple of elections they were the prettiest girl at the party now no one cares if they ever count the ballots.
 
2012-11-09 10:29:14 AM
Dear Florida,
It's time for UN election monitors. Get your shiat together.
 
2012-11-09 10:32:23 AM
Who wants a fair election in Florida? It worked so well in previous years. If it ain't fixed, don't un-broke it!
 
2012-11-09 10:35:41 AM
There's no question. If you have a weak system, you can game the system. If they want to pretend they don't use this as a method of control then fine.
 
2012-11-09 10:35:52 AM
Those calls are just yanking your chain.

/everybody knows why you can't run elections
 
2012-11-09 10:38:09 AM

Dr.Zom: Those calls are just yanking your chain.

/everybody knows why you can't run elections


There is a Florida tag for a reason
 
2012-11-09 10:38:35 AM
i181.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-09 10:43:50 AM
There are lots of things in FLA that are laughingly bad. Education system may be the base.
 
2012-11-09 10:45:10 AM
Just remember if we had popular vote now instead of electoral college there is a good chance Obama would still be not officially declared president and we would be having recount battles in many states.
 
2012-11-09 10:45:39 AM
Could it be that the GOP is in charge of elections and created a 10 page ballot that took some elderly voters 40 minutes to complete and proved nearly impossible to scan the results?

I'm just spitballing here.
 
2012-11-09 10:47:14 AM

Corvus: Just remember if we had popular vote now instead of electoral college there is a good chance Obama would still be not officially declared president and we would be having recount battles in many states.


I'm sorry "officially" is not the right word. But you get my meaning.
 
2012-11-09 10:47:58 AM
The results still aren't official, but it looks like President Obama can put Florida's 29 electoral votes in his column.

Though, in the end it didn't really matter.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-09 10:49:24 AM

Corvus: Just remember if we had popular vote now instead of electoral college there is a good chance Obama would still be not officially declared president and we would be having recount battles in many states.


On the one hand, that is exactly why they want a switch to a national popular vote system.

On the other hand, if such a system were in place, more liberals in red states would have voted since their votes would not have been worthless, and Obama would have won the election anyway.
 
2012-11-09 10:50:51 AM
Remember stuff like this when you question why other States don't get their own Fark tag.
 
2012-11-09 10:54:56 AM
"I have gotten calls from all over the country asking why we can't run elections have nice things"
 
2012-11-09 10:56:37 AM
Living in FL I've been suspicious of Florida voting in many areas. I question how many snow birds live down here for only a couple months in the winter but vote here so that their vote is counted in a swing state, and I would suspect there are cases that have old ID's in their home states and FL and vote in both states. Republicans are grade A assholes here, but really I am talking out my butt with no real proof other than to suspect that assholes tend to do asshole things.
 
2012-11-09 11:02:52 AM
Florida resident here, with a valid explanation.
It's because they put the vote for the amendments to the state constitution on the presidential ballots.

This year our ballot was four pages long. The combined federal, state and local elections, plus the retention votes for the state judges, were all on page one. The rest of it was the amendments. This year there were ten of them. All the amendments are written in legalese, making them difficult to read. Only three of the amendments were simple enough to figure out on the first read, the rest of them were filled with double negatives and multiple variables. One of them, dealing with tax breaks for second homeowners and multiple other parties, took up nearly half of a page.

And about half the people don't do any research on these things beforehand, so when they get into line at the polling place they are reading them for the first time. I did my homework on them and it took me less than a minute to vote, but some people were taking upwards of twenty minutes to vote. So the voting lines are considerably slowed, thanks to these amendments, and when the polls close they allow everyone in line at that time to vote. So the polls could close at 7, but the voting won't be over until 10.

And because of the length of them (being three pages to the regular votes one) the people handling the paperwork are slowed, too.
This may not be the entire reason, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that it is a big part of it.
 
2012-11-09 11:02:59 AM

Boxcutta: Could it be that the GOP is in charge of elections and created a 10 page ballot that took some elderly voters 40 minutes to complete and proved nearly impossible to scan the results?

I'm just spitballing here.


You are right on target. The FL GOP Legislature put 11 amendments to the state constitution for approval on the ballots. They were all a wagon load of manure, presented in language that even some attorneys found to be difficult to decipher. Fortunately, a lot of us had done enough homework to simply vote 'no' on most of them.

/or in my case, "Hell, no!"
 
2012-11-09 11:03:24 AM

Corvus: Just remember if we had popular vote now instead of electoral college there is a good chance Obama would still be not officially declared president and we would be having recount battles in many states.


Obama's margin in the popular vote: 2.5% (and rising as more provisional ballots are counted). Not exactly close enough for huge recount battles.
 
2012-11-09 11:05:12 AM

ha-ha-guy: Dear Florida,
It's time for UN election monitors. Get your shiat together.


You're not kidding. In part, FL's problem on Tuesday can be linked to the GOP reducing early voting after the 2008 election. It used to be allowed up until the Sunday before Election Day but the GOP put a stop to that because too many blah people were going to the polls after church.

In Miami-Dade, one of the largest counties, the Elections Supervisor called the mayor's office and asked that absentee voting be allowed on Sunday. The Deputy Mayor agreed and scheduled the polling stations to be opened. When Sunday came, all the stations got overwhelmed by huge crowds of 100 or more. Then Mayor Gimenez told them to shut it all down because nobody told him absentee ballots were allowed on that day (even though his entire Elections Board, Deputy Mayor, people scheduled to work the polling places, and a few hundred Floridians did.) He reopened later when his daughter-in-law showed him an article in that morning's paper.

But, it's telling that the counties lagging the furthest behind are mostly blue: Miami-Dade, Broward, Palm Beach. The spokespeople in FL kept blaming the long lines on log ballots to fill out. Even if that were the only culprit, it's not like a long ballot was a surprise to election officials on Tuesday. Plan for it, dumbasses! Put extra people & equipment on it! More likely, though, we're going to be hearing about some first-class shenanigans by Monday.
 
2012-11-09 11:14:56 AM
This is why Florida has its own FARK Tag
 
2012-11-09 11:14:59 AM
Oh, found some of the amendments on the FL ballot. And #1 is...

Amendment 1: "Health Care Freedom"

Another goodie:

Amendment 8: "Religious freedom"
This amendment would eliminate a restriction on state funds going to religious organizations.

So, right now in FL, no state money goes to religious organizations, which is as it should be. I do hope this one passed, though. I would freakin' PAY people to apply for state donations for Wiccans & Muslims, just to watch Floridians' derp-filled heads asplode.

Link
 
2012-11-09 11:22:38 AM

brigid_fitch: The spokespeople in FL kept blaming the long lines on log ballots to fill out. Even if that were the only culprit, it's not like a long ballot was a surprise to election officials on Tuesday. Plan for it, dumbasses! Put extra people & equipment on it! More likely, though, we're going to be hearing about some first-class shenanigans by Monday.


Let me know how they're doing to do that when the Republican controlled state refuses to give extra money for this?

They consolidated many polls locations to reduce costs, that's one of the major reasons there was so much congestion.

My local polling location had been there for over 30 years that I know of, then magically after the 2010 election and Rick Scott winning, they eliminate it and tell us we have to drive over 45mins away (one way) to vote. Everyone at my household got absentee ballots this year for the first time ever.

Everywhere I know of, even out of the way places in smaller areas (we're not talking Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville or Orlando, but small towns with 50k people or less) were having lines out the door. A co-worker waited over an hour.

So don't tell me this was the farking democrats or something not planning properly in Miami-Dade. The entire fiasco was because of the Republican controlled state trying to hurt voter turn out.
 
2012-11-09 11:33:03 AM
I have a sister in Florida who called me first thing in the morning to celebrate Obamas' win. She made a crack about Florida elections also. I believe she said "He won! W-o-o-o! And he did it without us. We're so flusterclucked we still don't know what's going on down here. I don't think they even know who we elected to the senate yet."

She really said flusterclucked. Now that we're Sunday school teachers we're trying to avoid using the language of our childhoods.
 
2012-11-09 11:37:36 AM

Corvus: Corvus: Just remember if we had popular vote now instead of electoral college there is a good chance Obama would still be not officially declared president and we would be having recount battles in many states.

I'm sorry "officially" is not the right word. But you get my meaning.


Yes, yet, I still feel we need to kick the electoral college to the curb, implement some minimum Federal standards regulating voting or, at least, better enforce those we have. We need to curb barriers to the ballot, implement instant run-off, and open way for multiple viable political parties. We need to eliminate any requirement to register for the draft to vote and stand firm against any other restrictions against voting especially those that discriminate based on conscience. Then we need to make voting in elections mandatory with fines implemented for those who do not vote because voting is not a right; it is a duty and a responsibility that should be carried out by every adult citizen.
 
2012-11-09 11:39:28 AM

King Something: Corvus: Just remember if we had popular vote now instead of electoral college there is a good chance Obama would still be not officially declared president and we would be having recount battles in many states.

On the one hand, that is exactly why they want a switch to a national popular vote system.

On the other hand, if such a system were in place, more liberals in red states would have voted since their votes would not have been worthless, and Obama would have won the election anyway.


Are there Republicans that favor eliminating the electoral college? Is that the group you are referring to when you use the word "they"? I thought only people on the left really wanted to see more political parties on the ballot.
 
2012-11-09 11:41:37 AM

Lunaville: King Something: Corvus: Just remember if we had popular vote now instead of electoral college there is a good chance Obama would still be not officially declared president and we would be having recount battles in many states.

On the one hand, that is exactly why they want a switch to a national popular vote system.

On the other hand, if such a system were in place, more liberals in red states would have voted since their votes would not have been worthless, and Obama would have won the election anyway.

Are there Republicans that favor eliminating the electoral college? Is that the group you are referring to when you use the word "they"? I thought only people on the left really wanted to see more political parties on the ballot.


This would be the first election cycle that Republicans favor eliminating the EC. And they want to because they think Obama would have lost if we eliminated it.
 
2012-11-09 11:48:15 AM

mgshamster: Lunaville: King Something: Corvus: Just remember if we had popular vote now instead of electoral college there is a good chance Obama would still be not officially declared president and we would be having recount battles in many states.

On the one hand, that is exactly why they want a switch to a national popular vote system.

On the other hand, if such a system were in place, more liberals in red states would have voted since their votes would not have been worthless, and Obama would have won the election anyway.

Are there Republicans that favor eliminating the electoral college? Is that the group you are referring to when you use the word "they"? I thought only people on the left really wanted to see more political parties on the ballot.

This would be the first election cycle that Republicans favor eliminating the EC. And they want to because they think Obama would have lost if we eliminated it.


Well, the fun part is that he still would have won and he may have won with an even bigger margin in the popular vote. It looks like now is the time to reach across the aisle and become very co-operative on a mutually agreed upon goal. Bye-bye electoral college. Bye-bye two party system. Hello, multi-party system that leaves corporate interests unsure who to bribe or unable to invest their "donations" to all the various candidates in an effective way.
 
2012-11-09 11:51:35 AM
You elect Republicans to State office, you get what you deserve.

/Floridian
//We'll improve when the dementia patients die off and the Cubans are bred out of power
 
2012-11-09 11:59:37 AM

Lunaville: mgshamster: Lunaville: King Something: Corvus: Just remember if we had popular vote now instead of electoral college there is a good chance Obama would still be not officially declared president and we would be having recount battles in many states.

On the one hand, that is exactly why they want a switch to a national popular vote system.

On the other hand, if such a system were in place, more liberals in red states would have voted since their votes would not have been worthless, and Obama would have won the election anyway.

Are there Republicans that favor eliminating the electoral college? Is that the group you are referring to when you use the word "they"? I thought only people on the left really wanted to see more political parties on the ballot.

This would be the first election cycle that Republicans favor eliminating the EC. And they want to because they think Obama would have lost if we eliminated it.

Well, the fun part is that he still would have won and he may have won with an even bigger margin in the popular vote. It looks like now is the time to reach across the aisle and become very co-operative on a mutually agreed upon goal. Bye-bye electoral college. Bye-bye two party system. Hello, multi-party system that leaves corporate interests unsure who to bribe or unable to invest their "donations" to all the various candidates in an effective way.


That would be nice. I'd like to see four or five parties up there during the presidential debates.
 
2012-11-09 12:35:51 PM

KellyX: brigid_fitch: The spokespeople in FL kept blaming the long lines on log ballots to fill out. Even if that were the only culprit, it's not like a long ballot was a surprise to election officials on Tuesday. Plan for it, dumbasses! Put extra people & equipment on it! More likely, though, we're going to be hearing about some first-class shenanigans by Monday.

Let me know how they're doing to do that when the Republican controlled state refuses to give extra money for this?

They consolidated many polls locations to reduce costs, that's one of the major reasons there was so much congestion.

My local polling location had been there for over 30 years that I know of, then magically after the 2010 election and Rick Scott winning, they eliminate it and tell us we have to drive over 45mins away (one way) to vote. Everyone at my household got absentee ballots this year for the first time ever.

Everywhere I know of, even out of the way places in smaller areas (we're not talking Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville or Orlando, but small towns with 50k people or less) were having lines out the door. A co-worker waited over an hour.

So don't tell me this was the farking democrats or something not planning properly in Miami-Dade. The entire fiasco was because of the Republican controlled state trying to hurt voter turn out.


I never for a second blamed the Democrats. I blame Scott, the Election Commission, Gimenez and the rest of the FL Republicans. They knew the ballot was ridiculously long, they knew the polling places would be swamped, and they knew there would be long lines to discourage voter--because that's exactly what they wanted. The point I was trying to make w/my initial post is that, had they not been corrupt, partisan assholes and behaved like NORMAL administrators, they would have attempted to mitigate the impact at some level. Scott could have signed an exec order to extend early voting, the Election Commission could have pared down the ballot, Gimenez and other county mayors could have redeployed resources. But nobody did anything like that because they so wanted Obama and the Dems to lose.

Instead, they got a fark-up bigger than the 2000 fiasco. Although anyone could clearly see the issue there was due to corruption--from the lame-ass butterfly ballots in a county of doddering senior citizens, all the way up to the Republican Elections Commission & governor--at least you could say that it was unprecedented. To have this many OBVIOUS problems 12 years later really puts the spotlight on them and now they won't be able to point fingers. Although he was only half-joking, election night, you can be sure Obama's going to put people on FL to make sure nothing like this happens again.
 
2012-11-09 12:38:51 PM

varmitydog: Florida resident here, with a valid explanation.
It's because they put the vote for the amendments to the state constitution on the presidential ballots.

This year our ballot was four pages long. The combined federal, state and local elections, plus the retention votes for the state judges, were all on page one. The rest of it was the amendments. This year there were ten of them.


Naa, we do this in Commiefornia, with no problems. Six page ballot, eleven state measures (we do the amendment thing too) and two county plus one city measure. No judges this time, but we did have the county DA. No problem.


Also, from the FA:
In Palm Beach County's case, 8,000 absentee ballots arrived in the mail Tuesday. And processing them is not a speedy task, due to a 2011 law. Elections officials are required to compare the signature on each ballot to the signature on a person's voter registration.


We also do that here, only the comparison is by machine, at the rate of hundreds per second. The envelope signature is only looked at by a poll worker if the machine kicks it out.

Palm Beach county has one-seventh the population of Los Angeles county, but Palm beach hasn't counted 8,000 mail-in ballots YET? Los Angeles County counted 448,470 vote by mail ballots on tuesday (LA saves all ballots 'til election day to count, regardless of when they were received.)

And our polls close late, and we are on Pacific time. And the state is broke. So Florida has no excuse.
 
2012-11-09 12:43:28 PM
I sent my right wing friend in FL a link to a youtube video that teachs children how to count and suggested he pass it along as we are waiting for their results.
 
2012-11-09 12:55:30 PM

DrRatchet: So Florida has no excuse.


Of course we do. We're Florida.
 
2012-11-09 02:24:46 PM

brigid_fitch: KellyX: brigid_fitch: The spokespeople in FL kept blaming the long lines on log ballots to fill out. Even if that were the only culprit, it's not like a long ballot was a surprise to election officials on Tuesday. Plan for it, dumbasses! Put extra people & equipment on it! More likely, though, we're going to be hearing about some first-class shenanigans by Monday.

Let me know how they're doing to do that when the Republican controlled state refuses to give extra money for this?

They consolidated many polls locations to reduce costs, that's one of the major reasons there was so much congestion.

My local polling location had been there for over 30 years that I know of, then magically after the 2010 election and Rick Scott winning, they eliminate it and tell us we have to drive over 45mins away (one way) to vote. Everyone at my household got absentee ballots this year for the first time ever.

Everywhere I know of, even out of the way places in smaller areas (we're not talking Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville or Orlando, but small towns with 50k people or less) were having lines out the door. A co-worker waited over an hour.

So don't tell me this was the farking democrats or something not planning properly in Miami-Dade. The entire fiasco was because of the Republican controlled state trying to hurt voter turn out.

I never for a second blamed the Democrats. I blame Scott, the Election Commission, Gimenez and the rest of the FL Republicans. They knew the ballot was ridiculously long, they knew the polling places would be swamped, and they knew there would be long lines to discourage voter--because that's exactly what they wanted. The point I was trying to make w/my initial post is that, had they not been corrupt, partisan assholes and behaved like NORMAL administrators, they would have attempted to mitigate the impact at some level. Scott could have signed an exec order to extend early voting, the Election Commission could have pared down the ballot, Gimenez and o ...


My apologies then, I guess I read it wrong at the end.

We're in agreement, fark Rick Scott!
 
2012-11-09 02:27:22 PM

KellyX: We're in agreement, fark Rick Scott!


eewww!!!
 
2012-11-09 03:57:28 PM

DrRatchet: varmitydog: Florida resident here, with a valid explanation.
It's because they put the vote for the amendments to the state constitution on the presidential ballots.

This year our ballot was four pages long. The combined federal, state and local elections, plus the retention votes for the state judges, were all on page one. The rest of it was the amendments. This year there were ten of them.

Naa, we do this in Commiefornia, with no problems. Six page ballot, eleven state measures (we do the amendment thing too) and two county plus one city measure. No judges this time, but we did have the county DA. No problem.



Plus, California mails-out a sample ballot to all registered voters, which is an exact duplicate of the ballot they'll fill out at the polling place. One can take their time to read each amendment at leisure (including both the 'legalese' versions of propositions, and non-partisan plain-language summaries of them), and to mark their choices.

Then the sample ballot can be brought to the polling place, and can even be taken into the booth to transfer the choices from the sample ballot to a real ballot. It's like taking an open-book test where you're given all the questions in advance.

If a voter is encountering a multi-page ballot for the first time only upon stepping into the voting booth ... then, yeah; that's doing it wrong.
 
2012-11-09 05:33:55 PM
DrRatchet: Plus, California mails-out a sample ballot to all registered voters, which is an exact duplicate of the ballot they'll fill out at the polling place. One can take their time to read each amendment at leisure (including both the 'legalese' versions of propositions, and non-partisan plain-language summaries of them), and to mark their choices.

Then the sample ballot can be brought to the polling place, and can even be taken into the booth to transfer the choices from the sample ballot to a real ballot. It's like taking an open-book test where you're given all the questions in advance.

If a voter is encountering a multi-page ballot for the first time only upon stepping into the voting booth ... then, yeah; that's doing it wrong.


No, they send out sample ballots that are exact copies of what we vote for in Florida, too. But a fair percentage of the people don't read them until they get into the voting booth, enough to significantly slow the lines. It has been suggested to the Florida legislature several times that these amendments not be placed on the ballot during presidential elections, but they shot it down each time with the argument that since it is when the most people come out to vote, they get a truer representation.

Then they write it so it is barely understandable--even to me, a college grad. They are not only written in legalese (using legal terminology) they are often written with double negatives so that it looks like you are voting for something when you are actually voting against it. I would be interested to know if that is the same case in California; do they make it clear about what you are voting for or are your amendments written so you have to decipher them? 

This year the Supervisor of Elections office around here really pushed the early voting, more so than they ever did before.
They basically used scare tactics, warning of long lines for a month before the election. It worked pretty well in my precinct,
a good 1/3 of all our votes were done before election day. And there was still a fifteen minute wait to vote, because of all the slowpokes reading those amendments.
 
2012-11-09 05:51:38 PM
Its very comforting to think that the reason FLA is blue. ( so far ) mainly to stick it to Rick Scott and the FLA GOP
 
2012-11-09 08:32:51 PM

varmitydog: They basically used scare tactics, warning of long lines for a month before the election. It worked pretty well in my precinct,
a good 1/3 of all our votes were done before election day. And there was still a fifteen minute wait to vote, because of all the slowpokes reading those amendments.



I voted on the Wednesday before the regular election day in west Pasco county. I was in and out in about fifteen minutes, total.
 
2012-11-09 11:52:13 PM

Lunaville: implement some minimum Federal standards regulating voting


I can see this being a state's rights uproar, but it doesn't make any sense to me that the federal government can't at least mandate a uniform ballot format for federal elections.
 
2012-11-11 03:57:19 PM
Way to go Florida! Did not disappoint! Again! At this rate the UN is going to start monitoring your election process.
 
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