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(The New York Times)   Craftsman, "America's most trusted tool brand", shafts real American craftsman with Chinese made, patent-infringing knockoff. Searsiously? What a bunch of mother-Roebuckers   (nytimes.com) divider line 57
    More: Asinine, made in china, Craftsman, wrenches, Americans, United Technologies Corp., industrial designer, Mr. Craig, plain  
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3630 clicks; posted to Business » on 08 Nov 2012 at 11:42 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-11-09 12:23:39 AM
3 votes:

KrispyKritter: many years ago the pride of manufacturing high quality made in america began to die due to greed. the practice of bullies in business began being taught in colleges and universities. the do anything, lay a company to waste Mitt Romney Bain mentality that made the rich even richer while working stiffs were left in the gutter. and Wall Street goons make mad money gambling on nothing at all derivatives and other nonsense while you and i watch both manufacturing and support jobs fly fly away.


You forgot an important item: consumers want the cheapest solution, regardless of quality, in many if not most cases. We'd rather go to Harbor freight and buy disposable power and hand tools if we only have a few jobs for them. Businesses met that demand with a race to the bottom that the consumer is complicit in. I have some excellent excellent tools but a couple of years ago I needed to do some quick demolition after a storm and a $18 chinese sawzall-type embarassment did the job and a couple more since then. It's already given me $18 worth of work so I won't mind trashing it when I need to. However, I will spit nails if my SawStop doesn't last a good long time.
2012-11-09 03:41:06 PM
2 votes:

tin_man: cheap_thoughts: Dewalt

I bought a new cordless drill/impact combo at Christmas time two years ago, because I had a gift card to a local store. Didn't have much call to use either one much for most of '11, but used them both occasionally. In March of '12 I started remodeling my bathroom, and my new Dewalt 18v drill, that was still shiny, made through about two days of standard use. Junk.

The impact turned out to be alright, but I'll never spend money on Dewalt again. Might as well buy the cheap knockoff stuff if it's not going to last any longer than that.


Milwaukee
2012-11-09 10:27:59 AM
2 votes:

jonnyh: sendtodave: This is Fark. It'd be easier for you to just blame a) the Chinese or b) the corporations for being all corporation-y and making money.

The consumer has no choice any longer. The corps have redefined what baseline quality and price are now. What used to be considered to be acceptable quality is now a luxury offering. What was once crap is now accepted. I think about my how my Grandmother used to shop for coats. She'd tug on all the buttons to make sure they were sewn on correctly. Do that now? You'd be arrested for damaging the clothing.

Take the example of shoes. What a decent, made in America shoe? Then you're looking at either Alden or Allen Edmonds. Alden, which I prefer, tend to cost $500-$700 a pair.

Now, those shoes will not only last for many years, but if they do wear out, Alden will restore them to nearly new quality for a nominal cost. With some care, you could expect them to last for life. I've had a pair of Alden wingtips for 10 years, redone once. Another pair for 5 years that still look like they came out of the box. And they don't make your feet hurt or turn into callously crap, either.

Compare that to, say, Florsheim. OK, you can get a nice pair of shoes from them for $175. Guess what? The heel is glued on, and will drop off in a year. The leather will distort and then crack. But it's 4x cheaper, even if it won't last 1/4th as long. And that's the new expectation for the the American consumer.


I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with me, or agreeing with me. The "corps" gave the consumers what they wanted: Lower prices.

Now, the consumers have come expect the lower prices. Meaning they won't compromise on the low prices, they just magically expect better quality.

Curse the corporations for giving consumers the crap they deserve?

Quality was always expensive..Sweatshop goods made things cheap. Raised the standard of living for everyone! "Even poor people have TVs."

But, now you have people looking around at all their cheap crap and going "I deserve quality!" It's kinda funny. No, you deserve what you are willing to and can afford to pay for.

My dad still has two pair of Florshiem shoes that are older than I am. Got them in the early 70s. They were $500 US each paid back them.

You get what you pay for. And that's all you get.
2012-11-09 12:53:12 AM
2 votes:

cheap_thoughts: Dewalt


I love how Black & Decker (now Stanley Spectrum Brands Holdings Inc.) is the manufacturer of DeWalt tools but keeps their B&D name completely away from the DeWalt name seeing that B&D tools aren't worth shiat.

/Former BDHHI employee.
2012-11-09 12:05:26 AM
2 votes:
many years ago the pride of manufacturing high quality made in america began to die due to greed. the practice of bullies in business began being taught in colleges and universities. the do anything, lay a company to waste Mitt Romney Bain mentality that made the rich even richer while working stiffs were left in the gutter. and Wall Street goons make mad money gambling on nothing at all derivatives and other nonsense while you and i watch both manufacturing and support jobs fly fly away.
2012-11-08 10:27:00 PM
2 votes:
DNRTFA but I have been looking for a quality handbag made in the US. LOL. WTf?
i buy and sell vintage items and the pre 80's are in demand and sell well. I have a Kitcehn Aid stand mixer from the late 70's that is awesome and can't understand why the new ones don't work.
What's that? Cheap manufacturing, cutting standards and questionable inspections?
I'll thank people like The Mittens for making the Vintage world go round.
2012-11-08 09:12:57 PM
2 votes:
I have craftsman stuff that my great-grandpa first bought. And I have some crap that I bought recently that sucked ass but also had the Craftsman name on it. Sad to see a brand that once was the watchword of quality destroyed by MBAs.
2012-11-09 07:04:24 PM
1 votes:

jonnyh: sendtodave: This is Fark. It'd be easier for you to just blame a) the Chinese or b) the corporations for being all corporation-y and making money.

The consumer has no choice any longer. The corps have redefined what baseline quality and price are now. What used to be considered to be acceptable quality is now a luxury offering. What was once crap is now accepted. I think about my how my Grandmother used to shop for coats. She'd tug on all the buttons to make sure they were sewn on correctly. Do that now? You'd be arrested for damaging the clothing.

Take the example of shoes. What a decent, made in America shoe? Then you're looking at either Alden or Allen Edmonds. Alden, which I prefer, tend to cost $500-$700 a pair.

Now, those shoes will not only last for many years, but if they do wear out, Alden will restore them to nearly new quality for a nominal cost. With some care, you could expect them to last for life. I've had a pair of Alden wingtips for 10 years, redone once. Another pair for 5 years that still look like they came out of the box. And they don't make your feet hurt or turn into callously crap, either.

Compare that to, say, Florsheim. OK, you can get a nice pair of shoes from them for $175. Guess what? The heel is glued on, and will drop off in a year. The leather will distort and then crack. But it's 4x cheaper, even if it won't last 1/4th as long. And that's the new expectation for the the American consumer.


Read this guy's bio if you want to read a sad tale of American industry turned to rust.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_F._Johnson

Endicott-Johnson Co. & The Square Deal

In 1899, Johnson became co-owner of the business, which was renamed the Endicott-Johnson Co. Under his presidency, the company grew to eight factories in Broome County, New York, employing about 10,000. Endicott-Johnson was the first company in the shoe industry to introduce the 8-hour workday, 40-hour workweek, and comprehensive medical care. Despite paying some of the highest wages in the industry, Endicott-Johnson was consistently profitable.

Although Johnson oversaw many different factories throughout the Susquehanna Valley of Broome County, he attracted many immigrant workers to the area by offering to build homes. Although the name Johnson was given to the city in NY where George F. arrived, the city of Endicott better reflects his intimate vision for a prosperous community. This is because Johnson himself developed nearly all of the residential neighborhoods in Endicott, selling houses to the workers at a cost to himself of $1000 each.

Until he died in 1948, Johnson saw to it that Endicott-Johnson employees received a range of benefits that were not typically offered by most employers at the time. The company also created parks (containing swimming pools and carousels that anyone could ride for free), medical facilities, restaurants, libraries, and recreational facilities-all designed to provide high quality goods and services to the employees for free or at a low cost.

The Square Deal Towns of Endicott & Johnson City have set the precedent of eager industrial labor habits for Broome County. The humming EJ factories and neighborhoods were the origins of International Business Machines. Endicott and Johnson City were where George F. Johnson revolutionized the pay system and improved relationships between capital and labor.

Here is a quote from George F.: "To know in the morning that your compensation is fixed; to know that you must do the same thing all day long, to know that whether you do a little more or a little less, whether you are more or less interested and more or less efficient, your pay is automatically fixed-creates the most deadly monotony that I can believe possible". Here he describes what was then called the piece worker system, whereas Professor Melvyn Dubovsky calls Johnson's ethic "welfare capitalism".

The community of Lestershire was renamed Johnson City, New York in 1916 in honor of Johnson, and Endicott-Johnson workers built two arches over the area's main road in the early '20s, one at the entrance to Johnson City and the other in Endicott, New York stating that they were the gateways to the "Square Deal Towns". Endicott-Johnson would become the largest manufacturer of footwear in the United States, employing 24,000 workers at its peak.
2012-11-09 04:57:25 PM
1 votes:

Joe_diGriz: SpaceyCat: I still have one of my first Craftsman socket sets. Purchased in the early 80s. The shiat I've done to those wrenches would have busted a lesser wrench.

Plus, when they did break, that "lifetime warranty" was truly honored. My dad, while attempting to remove a particularly stubborn spark plug (back in the 80s, when working on a car didn't require $200K worth of specialty equipment), somehow managed to break his Craftsman socket wrench. 3 times in the same day. And this was one of those big, heavy-duty ones. Each time, he'd just head back over to Sears, and they replaced it on the spot, no questions asked, even though he had just been there replacing it an hour earlier.


That used to happen to me. Then I got tired of having to interrupt what I was doing and run to Sears to replace broken tools.

Snap-On: There is a Difference (when you are using the tools professionally anyways)
2012-11-09 04:35:46 PM
1 votes:
[takes notes]
2012-11-09 03:22:43 PM
1 votes:

DigitalCoffee: I'd be happy just to get a coffee maker that would last more than a year.

[csb]
Couple years ago for Christmas i got one of those Hamilton Beach Brew Stations. In less than a year the plunger broke. I got lucky in that it broke in the closed position. Many had it break in the open and had hot coffee run everywhere. Then I got a Sunbeam 12 cup coffee maker. That lasted less than a year when it just stopped working. The light on the switch worked, but it would not brew. That was replaced with a Mr. Coffee that ended up dead in about 8 months just like the Sunbeam. Now I have a Black & Decker coffee maker that's lasted 2 weeks so far. Every single one of those was made in China. I went through EVERY box on the shelves (all brands and models) and only found ONE not made in China, it was some expensive (over $100) German contraption that made SINGLE cups of coffee. It use to be that you got a new coffee maker when you broke the carafe, not when the maker just stopped working.
[/csb]

/use to be that you would strip the head on a frozen bolt with your socket
//now the bolt stays intact and the socket shatters into pieces :-(
///farking Chinese crap


Ziroshi

DigitalCoffee: I'd be happy just to get a coffee maker that would last more than a year.

[csb]
Couple years ago for Christmas i got one of those Hamilton Beach Brew Stations. In less than a year the plunger broke. I got lucky in that it broke in the closed position. Many had it break in the open and had hot coffee run everywhere. Then I got a Sunbeam 12 cup coffee maker. That lasted less than a year when it just stopped working. The light on the switch worked, but it would not brew. That was replaced with a Mr. Coffee that ended up dead in about 8 months just like the Sunbeam. Now I have a Black & Decker coffee maker that's lasted 2 weeks so far. Every single one of those was made in China. I went through EVERY box on the shelves (all brands and models) and only found ONE not made in China, it was some expensive (over $100) German contraption that made SINGLE cups of coffee. It use to be that you got a new coffee maker when you broke the carafe, not when the maker just stopped working.
[/csb]

/use to be that you would strip the head on a frozen bolt with your socket
//now the bolt stays intact and the socket shatters into pieces :-(
///farking Chinese crap


Mrs. Relax had the same problem until she purchased a Zojirushi No problems and been going strong for 5 years. We have a Zojirushi rice cooker that has to be at least 15 years old. I just wish they made toaster ovens.
2012-11-09 03:03:48 PM
1 votes:

darcsun: One of the automotive forums I frequent pointed this out a couple years ago, along with side by side pitcures of the American and Chinese products. I'm not as much into wrenching on cars, which is good, considering how easily the Chinese stuff breaks. I've spent more time running up to a store for a needed replacement tool than I have actually working on the cars.

As for the Kenmore crap I have in my kitchen, I'll never buy a big ticket from there again.


The first time I managed to split a Chrome-Vanadium socket right down the middle while trying to loosen a bolt, I felt like farking superman. I've done it often enough since to know its not me, its the crap tools I'm using
2012-11-09 02:51:16 PM
1 votes:
One of the automotive forums I frequent pointed this out a couple years ago, along with side by side pitcures of the American and Chinese products. I'm not as much into wrenching on cars, which is good, considering how easily the Chinese stuff breaks. I've spent more time running up to a store for a needed replacement tool than I have actually working on the cars.

As for the Kenmore crap I have in my kitchen, I'll never buy a big ticket from there again.
2012-11-09 02:43:57 PM
1 votes:
Am I the only one that buys tools at garage sales and estate sales.. why buy new crap for retail when you can find used quality old stuff for pennies on the dollar.... I have all old craftsman and snap on hand tools... I doubt I've spent over 2 grand on tools and have a good set for home, garden and vehicles
2012-11-09 02:28:33 PM
1 votes:

DigitalCoffee: I'd be happy just to get a coffee maker that would last more than a year.

[csb]
Couple years ago for Christmas i got one of those Hamilton Beach Brew Stations. In less than a year the plunger broke. I got lucky in that it broke in the closed position. Many had it break in the open and had hot coffee run everywhere. Then I got a Sunbeam 12 cup coffee maker. That lasted less than a year when it just stopped working. The light on the switch worked, but it would not brew. That was replaced with a Mr. Coffee that ended up dead in about 8 months just like the Sunbeam. Now I have a Black & Decker coffee maker that's lasted 2 weeks so far. Every single one of those was made in China. I went through EVERY box on the shelves (all brands and models) and only found ONE not made in China, it was some expensive (over $100) German contraption that made SINGLE cups of coffee. It use to be that you got a new coffee maker when you broke the carafe, not when the maker just stopped working.
[/csb]



Get a french press if you want to make good coffee forever.
2012-11-09 02:03:05 PM
1 votes:

sendtodave: I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with me, or agreeing with me. The "corps" gave the consumers what they wanted: Lower prices.


I'm disagreeing with you.

The consumer is the proverbial boiled frog. I have vintage sweaters from the late 60's that cost between $9 and $14 new (they were NOS, an amazing find). These were sold by Sears, and were Puritan brand. Each button hole and edge was finished with suede, and the buttons were real buttons. The wool was, well, wool - mohair at that price, too. The weave was too dense to see through. I have a pair of levi's that had a price tag of $4 from the same period. Four. Bucks.

According to the www.dollartimes.com, multiply by 6.66 to get parity with today's dollar. Guess what? The math works for the sweater, more or less, depending upon the store if there's a sale running. It's hard to find Levi's for under $30.

OK, so the price is effectively the same or higher. The quality? No way. Sweaters today are see-through. Levi's last about 6 months.

That's the rub. What used to be baseline is now luxury, and at luxury prices.
2012-11-09 01:58:43 PM
1 votes:

majestic: Breathe Laugh Twitch: Skyfrog: I'm surprised it took this long. Remember years ago when Walmart's big thing was how their stuff was all made in America. That didn't last very long.

It was significantly less honest than that. The slogan was "We buy American whenever we can, so you can too"... a statement which contains exactly zero meaning.

Uh, yeah, we'll buy American if the price is perfectly identical to the Chinese price. Oh, such a thing never actually happens, but if it did, then we could totally buy American!!1!1

Actually, prior to Sam's death, Wal-Mart did have a significant % of products made in the USA.


After Sam's death however they started pulling this crap:
To do business with Walmart you had to open your books to their accountants sothey new exactly how much profit per unit you were making. If they did business with you they'd gradually increase their orders from you until virtually all of your industrial capacity was geared toward servicing them and you had to let all your other clients go. At that point they'd start demanding discounts from you until you were barely making any profit on your sales to them. When the manufacturers finally balked at this since they weren;t making any money "The Wizards of Bentonville" as they called thier accounting Dept would bring you in , go over your books and then point out how you could save 30-40% in labor costs if you closed your US factory and moved production overseas, and and they'd like you to meet Mr. Ling who just happened to have a Chinese factory that could build your item for you.

then they'd hit you up for one more round of discounts knowing you could afford it because of your new, lower, labor costs
2012-11-09 11:30:18 AM
1 votes:

Breathe Laugh Twitch: Skyfrog: I'm surprised it took this long. Remember years ago when Walmart's big thing was how their stuff was all made in America. That didn't last very long.

It was significantly less honest than that. The slogan was "We buy American whenever we can, so you can too"... a statement which contains exactly zero meaning.

Uh, yeah, we'll buy American if the price is perfectly identical to the Chinese price. Oh, such a thing never actually happens, but if it did, then we could totally buy American!!1!1


Actually, prior to Sam's death, Wal-Mart did have a significant % of products made in the USA.
2012-11-09 11:28:34 AM
1 votes:
So I guess the real question is: What brand should I be loking for if I don't want crappy tool? SnapOn?
2012-11-09 11:18:57 AM
1 votes:
I've had good luck with Kobolt hand tools from Lowes. They have the lifetime replacement warranty like Craftsman. But I live in an apartment and don't actually need them to do any hard work, so their quality could be from the fact I don't use them much.
2012-11-09 10:53:14 AM
1 votes:

SpaceyCat: I still have one of my first Craftsman socket sets. Purchased in the early 80s. The shiat I've done to those wrenches would have busted a lesser wrench.


Plus, when they did break, that "lifetime warranty" was truly honored. My dad, while attempting to remove a particularly stubborn spark plug (back in the 80s, when working on a car didn't require $200K worth of specialty equipment), somehow managed to break his Craftsman socket wrench. 3 times in the same day. And this was one of those big, heavy-duty ones. Each time, he'd just head back over to Sears, and they replaced it on the spot, no questions asked, even though he had just been there replacing it an hour earlier.
2012-11-09 10:43:03 AM
1 votes:

urger: I have craftsman stuff that my great-grandpa first bought. And I have some crap that I bought recently that sucked ass but also had the Craftsman name on it. Sad to see a brand that once was the watchword of quality destroyed by MBAs.


No kidding. Bought an electric drill at a rummage sale the other day just because it looked like a 1930's sci-fi ray gun (i'm a sucker for industrial design). When I looked at it more closely I realized it was a Craftsman, and with a little googling determined it was at least 60 years old. I plugged it in and it ran like it was new. Meanwhile I can't tell you how many of their more recent cordless models I've thrown away. There was a time when you wouldn't gotten laughed off a jobsite for showing up with Craftsman tools instead of Makita or similiar. But those days are apparently long gone.
2012-11-09 09:58:08 AM
1 votes:

starlost: its been said already. more people want price over quality. there is a national commercial by a law firm asking if you have been injured by a table saw. they say the accident could have been prevented because of the fairly new technology that can sense when a finger or flesh is touching the blade and stop it almost instantly. because your saw doesn't have the technology the commercial says sue-sue-sue. i think many of the manufacturers don't use the technology simply because people don't want to pay for it. i've heard it adds around $75-100 to to the price of a table saw. kinda makes it tough when you are shopping for or trying to sell a cheap piece o'crap.


Plus, this doesn't work for all applications. For instance, my dad uses a motorized band saw to slice up deer. Obviously you cant have a flesh sensor on that.
2012-11-09 09:52:29 AM
1 votes:
Any handyman worth his salt knows that Snapon is far superior.
2012-11-09 09:43:05 AM
1 votes:
The company that makes the Max Axess wrench and other tools for Craftsman, the Apex Tool Group, is being acquired by Bain Capital, the company founded by Mitt Romney, in a $1.6 billion deal.

Why am I not surprised.
2012-11-09 09:11:57 AM
1 votes:

Elzar: Jesus craftsman has been cheap chinese donkey balls for years and years now...


Some of their things, yes. Most of their hand tools are still made in the US, have a lifetime warranty, and don't suck. The "evolv" brand they sell is Chinese made and about 5% cheaper than the US made stuff, so why not just get the US stuff?

My dad still has some Craftsman tools that belonged to his father. Some of the new tools I bought from them seem to be of similar quality even after some solid use around the house and on my car.

The only hand tool I don't buy from Sears/Craftsman is their click-type torque wrenches: they're way overpriced and only have a 6-month warranty. Harbor Freight ones are cheaper and have a 1-year warranty. For important stuff like wheel lug nuts I always double-check with a Craftsman beam-type torque wrench and the Harbor Freight one has been right on the money.
2012-11-09 09:08:27 AM
1 votes:
You returned the junk and you still shop at Harbor Freight.

That's a false assumption on your part, Englebert Slaptyback. But thanks for the misplaced sense of moral superiority. We can all sleep better now knowing you've put me in my place.
2012-11-09 09:07:45 AM
1 votes:

sendtodave: This is Fark. It'd be easier for you to just blame a) the Chinese or b) the corporations for being all corporation-y and making money.


The consumer has no choice any longer. The corps have redefined what baseline quality and price are now. What used to be considered to be acceptable quality is now a luxury offering. What was once crap is now accepted. I think about my how my Grandmother used to shop for coats. She'd tug on all the buttons to make sure they were sewn on correctly. Do that now? You'd be arrested for damaging the clothing.

Take the example of shoes. What a decent, made in America shoe? Then you're looking at either Alden or Allen Edmonds. Alden, which I prefer, tend to cost $500-$700 a pair.

Now, those shoes will not only last for many years, but if they do wear out, Alden will restore them to nearly new quality for a nominal cost. With some care, you could expect them to last for life. I've had a pair of Alden wingtips for 10 years, redone once. Another pair for 5 years that still look like they came out of the box. And they don't make your feet hurt or turn into callously crap, either.

Compare that to, say, Florsheim. OK, you can get a nice pair of shoes from them for $175. Guess what? The heel is glued on, and will drop off in a year. The leather will distort and then crack. But it's 4x cheaper, even if it won't last 1/4th as long. And that's the new expectation for the the American consumer.
2012-11-09 09:03:46 AM
1 votes:
After the Roto-Zip lawsuit, I was thinking Sears made a serious mistake. Now, with this case basically mirroring that case exactly, I think Sears is a disreputable nasty evil bunch of corporate thieves.


Job creators, my ass. Our megacorporations have cancer. The cancer is greed and lawlessness. Unfortunately, they've already purchased the government.
2012-11-09 08:58:01 AM
1 votes:

DigitalCoffee: I'd be happy just to get a coffee maker that would last more than a year.


Then look at a Technivorm. It's made in the Netherlands, just the same way they've been doing it since the '60s. Not only will it make the very best cup of drip coffee you've ever had, it will simply never die. I've had mine for 5 years, and it's still working as new.

There are many examples of NOT made in China goods that seem expensive, but when you realize that you're buying something that will last at least 10x as long, it's actually a good deal. Of course, you get other benefits of quality along the way.

//mah first greenlight
//aw shucks, it finally happened to me
2012-11-09 08:43:26 AM
1 votes:

Any Pie Left


You can see inside the broken handle, the tang and handle are joined by a plastic shaft and that plastic has a molded fake screw head on the outside. They were too cheap to use two machine screws to assemble the machete, just injected plastic, but MADE it look like it was held together by real screws. My wife thanked god she had the foresight to not have my boys work side-by-side in the yard that day, or we'd likely have had a horrible accident.

I took the broken unit back to the store and showed the manager the lack of real machine screws. I asked him if he would sell such a product to his own family. Recently I was back there, they are of course still selling the machetes. We went to Menard's and got a replacement for two bucks more, its held together with actual screws.


You are part of the problem.

You intentionally bought the cheapest machete-like object you could find - and gave it to a member of your own family - and then were amazed when it turned out to be junk.

You returned the junk and you still shop at Harbor Freight.
2012-11-09 08:35:38 AM
1 votes:
Bought a cheap machete at Harbor Fright for my son to do some yard work. I come home and he shows me how the blade separated from the handle, flew fit feet and stuck int he wooden fence. I examine the handle, which is covered in black and green rubberized-looking plastic, even the screw heads are rubber-coated.

Only the screws are fake.

You can see inside the broken handle, the tang and handle are joined by a plastic shaft and that plastic has a molded fake screw head on the outside. They were too cheap to use two machine screws to assemble the machete, just injected plastic, but MADE it look like it was held together by real screws. My wife thanked god she had the foresight to not have my boys work side-by-side in the yard that day, or we'd likely have had a horrible accident.

I took the broken unit back to the store and showed the manager the lack of real machine screws. I asked him if he would sell such a product to his own family. Recently I was back there, they are of course still selling the machetes. We went to Menard's and got a replacement for two bucks more, its held together with actual screws.
2012-11-09 08:27:53 AM
1 votes:
About 10 years ago I bought a small box end wrench to remove a bolt from my car. I think it was an 8 or 10 mm wrench so not too big. I put some force on it and the damn thing bent. I looked on the wrench and sure enough. Made in China. From that point on I started to pay attention to where the tools were made. USA, Germany, and even Japan are acceptable choices for me now. China, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, and Mexico go right back on the shelf. Sure the products made in countries where their workers are paid a decent wage and have quality standards are going to be more expensive. Tools (hand and power) are a perfect example of getting what you pay for.
2012-11-09 08:14:23 AM
1 votes:

urger: I have craftsman stuff that my great-grandpa first bought. And I have some crap that I bought recently that sucked ass but also had the Craftsman name on it. Sad to see a brand that once was the watchword of quality destroyed by MBAs.


I'm not sure if you're serious about blaming MBAs here, or if you're just jumping on the blame MBAs trend to sound as if you were intelligent and snarky. Either way, you should know you're pointing the finger at the wrong people. There are plenty of reasons to blame MBAs, but this is not one of them. Quit spreading ignorance and being an idiot.

Consumers wanted cheap affordable stuff (think Walmart.) If the demand were for expensive quality stuff MBA's would have given the people what they wanted there too (like Apple.) Consumers drive demand which drives business.
2012-11-09 08:10:49 AM
1 votes:

tin_man


I bought a new cordless drill/impact combo at Christmas time two years ago, because I had a gift card to a local store. Didn't have much call to use either one much for most of '11, but used them both occasionally. In March of '12 I started remodeling my bathroom, and my new Dewalt 18v drill, that was still shiny, made through about two days of standard use. Junk.


About 12 years ago I bought a Craftsman 14.4v cordless drill and a Craftsman compound mitre saw. Both of them have held up through a *lot* of use remodeling an old house and they are still 100% functional. I was even able to walk into a local Sears a few years back and buy two replacement batteries for the cordless.

Stories like yours make me wonder what I'll get when these items reach EOL.
2012-11-09 07:40:57 AM
1 votes:

cheap_thoughts: Dewalt


I bought a new cordless drill/impact combo at Christmas time two years ago, because I had a gift card to a local store. Didn't have much call to use either one much for most of '11, but used them both occasionally. In March of '12 I started remodeling my bathroom, and my new Dewalt 18v drill, that was still shiny, made through about two days of standard use. Junk.

The impact turned out to be alright, but I'll never spend money on Dewalt again. Might as well buy the cheap knockoff stuff if it's not going to last any longer than that.
2012-11-09 07:08:44 AM
1 votes:
Its what happens to most businesses that are successful: when they become big enough, the people have passion quality and customer service (how they got successful in the first placed) are replaced with sociopaths whose passion is only for making money. Sadly, their efforts to squeeze ever more profits invariably causes product quality and customer service to suffer. They often run such companies into the ground and then jump to safety with a parachute of glittering gold; only to to do it again. 

And then we are told to worship at the feet of these "Job Creators" so they will continue to throw us crumbs from their overflowing tables.
2012-11-09 05:46:13 AM
1 votes:

KrispyKritter: many years ago the pride of manufacturing high quality made in america began to die due to greed. the practice of bullies in business began being taught in colleges and universities. the do anything, lay a company to waste Mitt Romney Bain mentality that made the rich even richer while working stiffs were left in the gutter. and Wall Street goons make mad money gambling on nothing at all derivatives and other nonsense while you and i watch both manufacturing and support jobs fly fly away.



I remember a long time (obviously outside the US), people were suspicious of US manufactured items because it was believed that US manufacturing has built in obsolescence (esp. vehicles). People preferred Russian since it would last even thought it would not be pretty.
2012-11-09 03:25:33 AM
1 votes:

DigitalCoffee: I'd be happy just to get a coffee maker that would last more than a year.

[csb]
Couple years ago for Christmas i got one of those Hamilton Beach Brew Stations. In less than a year the plunger broke. I got lucky in that it broke in the closed position. Many had it break in the open and had hot coffee run everywhere. Then I got a Sunbeam 12 cup coffee maker. That lasted less than a year when it just stopped working. The light on the switch worked, but it would not brew. That was replaced with a Mr. Coffee that ended up dead in about 8 months just like the Sunbeam. Now I have a Black & Decker coffee maker that's lasted 2 weeks so far. Every single one of those was made in China. I went through EVERY box on the shelves (all brands and models) and only found ONE not made in China, it was some expensive (over $100) German contraption that made SINGLE cups of coffee. It use to be that you got a new coffee maker when you broke the carafe, not when the maker just stopped working.
[/csb]

/use to be that you would strip the head on a frozen bolt with your socket
//now the bolt stays intact and the socket shatters into pieces :-(
///farking Chinese crap


Dude, go commercial. As in, the stuff they have to use at Restaurants. I rarely plug places, but

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/ has seriously everything professional for dirt cheap.

I went through three blenders before I bought a commercial bar blender from them.
2012-11-09 03:24:05 AM
1 votes:
Triple constraints.

upload.wikimedia.org

Or, put another way:

upload.wikimedia.org

Retail stores are very convenient, in that your product is typically already on the shelves. Fast!

They make their profit on volume, selling large quantities of product on slim margins. Cheap!

Conclusion: You will not find Good at a friggen Sears. Stop expecting too much.
2012-11-09 03:11:57 AM
1 votes:

DigitalCoffee: I went through EVERY box on the shelves (all brands and models) and only found ONE not made in China, it was some expensive (over $100) German contraption that made SINGLE cups of coffee.


Shelves? Where were you shopping?

You can't really expect quality durable goods from a big box retailer. Nor should you expect them to be in the same price range as friggen Black and Decker. I mean, you can't complain about both the quality AND the price, can you?

/seems that you only want to pay for Chinese crap
2012-11-09 02:39:00 AM
1 votes:

Mr. Potatoass: knowless: There aren't any American made tool brands, not for electric, not even most air driven, been that way for awhile..

Is this seriously news to anyone?

I own, use, and am satisfied with the following brands. I'm sure some are made in the US:

DeWalt, Porter-Cable, Delta, Milwaukee, Channel Lock, Klein, Rigid, Irwin, and a couple of Stanley tape measures.

/I also use a 55 year old Craftsman chalk line that belonged to my father


I'm with you... be warned, though, that Channel Lock just recently turned into crap. I bought most of my tools from Harbor Freight because my bluecollar employees are going to lose or steal them anyway. But, I sprang for a real pair of Channel Lock groove-joint pliers. Just because I use that tool so damn much.

Joke's on me. The machining on the pliers is so lousy, the joint sticks when in two different positions. Alas, the MBAs have gotten hold of yet another once-great brand.
2012-11-09 01:58:08 AM
1 votes:
Sears is dying and they know it. They almost crash a couple of years ago and closed a bunch of stores. I still have one of my first Craftsman socket sets. Purchased in the early 80s. The shiat I've done to those wrenches would have busted a lesser wrench. The newer ones suck ass. I won't buy Craftsman if I can help it. Not any more.
2012-11-09 01:53:04 AM
1 votes:
The Craftsman and Kenmore brands are the ONLY excuses that Sears still has to justify it's continuing existence. One recent report on Consumerist told about a guy who sprung for stainless steel Kenmore Elite brand appliances for his new house, and within a few weeks it starts showing rust spots and not even being able to keep a carton of ice cream from turning into soup.

consumermediallc.files.wordpress.com
Cheap Chinese sh*t, obviously.

Methinks Sears isn't just doomed, it's going to epic implode a la Circuit City.
2012-11-09 01:51:12 AM
1 votes:

Mr. Potatoass: knowless: There aren't any American made tool brands, not for electric, not even most air driven, been that way for awhile..

Is this seriously news to anyone?

I own, use, and am satisfied with the following brands. I'm sure some are made in the US:

DeWalt, Porter-Cable, Delta, Milwaukee, Channel Lock, Klein, Rigid, Irwin, and a couple of Stanley tape measures.

/I also use a 55 year old Craftsman chalk line that belonged to my father


If it runs on electricity - it is almost surely made in Asia. There are still some hand tools made here - I bought an inexpensive saw and a nicer angled wrench recently that were made here. I also bought some drills bits that were made in the USA. I think a major part of the issue is that the production of motors and batteries involve a lot of heavy metals and toxic chemicals - which when combined with the increased labor component just make it so much cheaper to offshore. But forging steel and minor assembly work is still done fairly inexpensively here.
2012-11-09 01:26:49 AM
1 votes:

knowless: There aren't any American made tool brands, not for electric, not even most air driven, been that way for awhile..

Is this seriously news to anyone?


You know what tool IS made in America? The Bionic Wrench. The one that Sears ripped off and had manufactured cheaply in China.
2012-11-09 01:01:00 AM
1 votes:

knowless: There aren't any American made tool brands, not for electric, not even most air driven, been that way for awhile..

Is this seriously news to anyone?


I own, use, and am satisfied with the following brands. I'm sure some are made in the US:

DeWalt, Porter-Cable, Delta, Milwaukee, Channel Lock, Klein, Rigid, Irwin, and a couple of Stanley tape measures.

/I also use a 55 year old Craftsman chalk line that belonged to my father
2012-11-09 12:45:29 AM
1 votes:
There aren't any American made tool brands, not for electric, not even most air driven, been that way for awhile..

Is this seriously news to anyone?
2012-11-09 12:40:10 AM
1 votes:
I hope Sears has the crap sued out of them in court as all companies should who claim they are American and ship all their work off to China/India.

I never buy tools at Sear anyway, they are all crap there. If I want something cheap, made in China, that will break quickly, I'll go to Walmart. At least they are honest about being un-American sell-outs. They are from the mid-West after all.
2012-11-09 12:37:06 AM
1 votes:

Znuh: It's insane - as AbbySomeone stated, I dig earlier stuff for its solidity and functionality; never in my life would I expect that large, name brand appliances (dishwashers, washing machines, etc.) would turn into high cost, 'disposable' items.

New Washer from LG? Lasted two years. Call up LG, ask for the part (circuitboard) and.... 'we're sorry, we don't support that model anymore'. Mom's ancient Maytag from the 70s? Bombproof.

Doing things cheaply results in cheap things. Sears shafted me good with their new line of chainsaws. Chinese knockoffs of Husquvarna. Looked good, until we got the thing halfway through a large log and discovered the Chinese forgot to copy the bar oiling hole. Bar ate itself, chain destroyed.

Sad to see they're doing this with Craftsman. Sears and Roebuck must be spinning in their graves.


My folks had a television that my dad had since like the friggin' late 70s. Died while I was watching King of the Hill in '99. They bought a new CRT immediately after, and that died three years ago. I wonder how long that flatscreen is going to last ...
2012-11-09 12:34:01 AM
1 votes:
You can find a high quality, made from titanium, guaranteed for life pair of pliers... for 100 bucks. Or go down to Wal-mart and buy a cheap pair for 6 dollars. High quality tools are out there, you just have to be willing to pay for them.
2012-11-09 12:32:28 AM
1 votes:
Dewalt
2012-11-09 12:25:20 AM
1 votes:
Craftsman
Black & Decker
Stanley

^ Any other formerly great tool brands to add to the shiat list?
2012-11-09 12:24:56 AM
1 votes:
It's insane - as AbbySomeone stated, I dig earlier stuff for its solidity and functionality; never in my life would I expect that large, name brand appliances (dishwashers, washing machines, etc.) would turn into high cost, 'disposable' items.

New Washer from LG? Lasted two years. Call up LG, ask for the part (circuitboard) and.... 'we're sorry, we don't support that model anymore'. Mom's ancient Maytag from the 70s? Bombproof.

Doing things cheaply results in cheap things. Sears shafted me good with their new line of chainsaws. Chinese knockoffs of Husquvarna. Looked good, until we got the thing halfway through a large log and discovered the Chinese forgot to copy the bar oiling hole. Bar ate itself, chain destroyed.

Sad to see they're doing this with Craftsman. Sears and Roebuck must be spinning in their graves.
2012-11-09 12:17:26 AM
1 votes:
Corporatism is crushing entrepreneurialism.
2012-11-08 11:22:01 PM
1 votes:

Elzar: urger: I have craftsman stuff that my great-grandpa first bought. And I have some crap that I bought recently that sucked ass but also had the Craftsman name on it. Sad to see a brand that once was the watchword of quality destroyed by MBAs.

Jesus craftsman has been cheap chinese donkey balls for years and years now...


It's a shame. I have my grandfathers table saw, drill press, wood lathe, and band saw. Probably close to 100 years old, made of cast iron, and still running strong (new motors, but everything else is still stock).

I bought a torque wrench from them and it didn't last 6 months. Maybe that's why we're failing as a country?
2012-11-08 09:30:30 PM
1 votes:
I seem to recall Craftsman doing this before. I remember an inventor who came up with a thumb-slide operated adjustable wrench. He tried to sell it to Sears, they passed then started selling a knockoff.
 
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