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(SacBee)   Now witness the power of this fully armed and operational Democratic supermajority. At least they won't have anyone else to blame when it all falls apart   (sacbee.com) divider line 124
    More: Scary, Democrats, supermajority, President Pro Tem, Steinberg, one-party state, Sacramento County, power corrupts, Jon Coupal  
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4851 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Nov 2012 at 11:36 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



124 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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Archived thread
 
2012-11-08 08:19:40 PM
Doesn't California actually have to be considered "together" before it can fall apart?
 
2012-11-08 08:28:17 PM
Nice to see fixing their stupid referendum process is on the list.
 
2012-11-08 08:46:59 PM
So I'm guessing Subby would also say the new Republican supermajority here in TN is bad too, right? After all, they have enough power they can suspend the normal rules of order and do whatever the fark they want.
 
2012-11-08 09:07:15 PM
Speaking of supermajorities, why is it that Republicans want California to become a red state again? It's seriously their dream every election.
 
2012-11-08 09:28:57 PM

themindiswatching: Speaking of supermajorities, why is it that Republicans want California to become a red state again? It's seriously their dream every election.


Because, all the leaves are brown, and the sky is gray.
 
2012-11-08 09:45:09 PM
This should be... interesting

MorrisBird: themindiswatching: Speaking of supermajorities, why is it that Republicans want California to become a red state again? It's seriously their dream every election.

Because, all the leaves are brown, and the sky is gray.


And 55 Electoral votes

/on a Winter's day
 
2012-11-08 09:53:59 PM
Anyway, I can definitely see the Democrats farking this up somehow and causing another Proposition 13.
 
2012-11-08 10:04:49 PM

GAT_00: So I'm guessing Subby would also say the new Republican supermajority here in TN is bad too, right? After all, they have enough power they can suspend the normal rules of order and do whatever the fark they want.


Or the one here in WY.
 
2012-11-08 10:35:39 PM
No, we can still blame Prop. 13 and Grover Norquist.

This state has been continually f*cked by a pack of scared retirees in the '70s, and the assholes that pandered to them, because inflation would totally last forever, so we can never, ever adjust property taxes or reassess old properties.
 
2012-11-08 10:43:15 PM

kmmontandon: No, we can still blame Prop. 13 and Grover Norquist.

This state has been continually f*cked by a pack of scared retirees in the '70s, and the assholes that pandered to them, because inflation would totally last forever, so we can never, ever adjust property taxes or reassess old properties.


Most of those retirees from the 70s are long dead. When a property is sold, it gets reassessed and taxed thereafter at current market value. About the only thing I can see left of Prop 13 is the cap on yearly increases (which is moot since property values have decreased lately), and the really stupid part about commercial property taxes

/what do you think we should change?
 
2012-11-08 10:49:30 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: About the only thing I can see left of Prop 13 is the cap on yearly increases (which is moot since property values have decreased lately), and the really stupid part about commercial property taxes

/what do you think we should change?


Remove the 1% property tax rate cap, lock the yearly increase cap to CPI and make Proposition 13 only apply to residential property.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-08 10:53:39 PM
Massachusetts has had a Democratic supermajority for a long time. I think the majority will be 37-3 and 127-33 next session. What happens is, the Democrats split into factions. You might call them progressive and traditional, but don't worry too much about the labels. One of the factions chooses a Speaker of the House, who decides how much taxes will go up. The Senate president has a say too. The rank and file mostly do what the boss says. As in parliamentary systems, occasionally they are allowed to vote their conscience instead of following orders.

The last effective thing Massachusetts Republicans did was side with the minority traditional Democrats to block a progressive Speaker. It was like 50 traditional Democrats, 70 progressives, and 40 Republicans. Republicans added their votes to traditional Democrats' to install Thomas Finneran as Speaker. People disagree about whether he was better for Republicans. He was eventually indicted for obstruction of justice, pleaded guilty, was sentenced to probation, and became a talk show host.

And it's true that nobody blames Republican legislators for Massachusetts' problems. It's also true that being a Democrat means you can screw up the state as much as you like. They don't fear being voted out in favor of Republicans. Personal misconduct, drunk driving or drunk groping, is a problem. Professional misconduct and mismanagement is not.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-08 10:58:46 PM
MaudlinMutantMollusk

According to a quick Google, California voters passed a law exempting property inherited from parents from reassessment. How many children and grandchildren of 70s retirees are still living in the family house, nearly tax free?
 
2012-11-08 11:22:55 PM

ZAZ: MaudlinMutantMollusk

According to a quick Google, California voters passed a law exempting property inherited from parents from reassessment. How many children and grandchildren of 70s retirees are still living in the family house, nearly tax free?


Probably some. I did for a while, but it wasn't exactly tax-free. I just inherited the then current tax rate and got the 1.whatever% annual increases while the values were going up. A lot more people who inherited under those circumstances sold while the market was good, so the tax values got reset anyway

themindiswatching: MaudlinMutantMollusk: About the only thing I can see left of Prop 13 is the cap on yearly increases (which is moot since property values have decreased lately), and the really stupid part about commercial property taxes

/what do you think we should change?

Remove the 1% property tax rate cap, lock the yearly increase cap to CPI and make Proposition 13 only apply to residential property.


Works for me

/but then, I'm no longer a property owner, so I shouldn't have much of a say in the issue
 
2012-11-08 11:39:02 PM
Your kids will meditate in school.
 
2012-11-08 11:39:53 PM
I'm hoping for an oil extraction tax. We'll see.
 
2012-11-08 11:44:35 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: kmmontandon: No, we can still blame Prop. 13 and Grover Norquist.

This state has been continually f*cked by a pack of scared retirees in the '70s, and the assholes that pandered to them, because inflation would totally last forever, so we can never, ever adjust property taxes or reassess old properties.

Most of those retirees from the 70s are long dead. When a property is sold, it gets reassessed and taxed thereafter at current market value. About the only thing I can see left of Prop 13 is the cap on yearly increases (which is moot since property values have decreased lately), and the really stupid part about commercial property taxes

/what do you think we should change?


That's not really true, though - what many rich(er) people have done is place their houses into ownership by a trust, which then can let the house get passed down to their kids without actually changing ownership of the house and triggering reassessment.
 
2012-11-08 11:44:53 PM
Holy cow. I'm so used to having resistance to everything ... it's like when that sticky door suddenly stops being sticky and you throw yourself at it and end up sprawled on the bathroom floor and you hadn't even been drinking...
 
2012-11-08 11:45:47 PM
Well, if there's any state in the union capable of totally screwing the pooch with a Democratic supermajority, it's California.
 
2012-11-08 11:48:07 PM
Congratulations. Now use this power for good, set an example for the rest of the country, and don't fark it up!
 
2012-11-08 11:49:08 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: ZAZ: MaudlinMutantMollusk
/what do you think we should change?

Remove the 1% property tax rate cap, lock the yearly increase cap to CPI and make Proposition 13 only apply to residential property.

Works for me


Me three. Who recommended that? MaudlinMutantMollusk for Governor! Or themindiswatching? ZAZ? I can't tell.

"Whoever can improve Fark's comment quoting for Governor!"
 
2012-11-08 11:49:18 PM
I have lived in CA for 15 years and I think this is awesome. I find it amusing to hear the Republicans and "Taxpayer" people act like this is something other than the will of the people.

I mean face it, GOP. In the nations largest state and the nation itself your party is being blamed -- and now punished -- for gridlock and failing to meaningfully address the challenges we face. Stop yelling, stop casting blame, and really look at and think about what's happening here.
 
2012-11-08 11:50:40 PM
Should be interesting the next few years. Surely the population of California will plummet as people flea the state... amirite?
 
2012-11-08 11:51:59 PM
The phrase super-majority should have no meaning.. It is sick and warped that it has come to be the only majority with any meaning.

Anything too important to be decided by a simple majority of whatever is the legislative body in an area should be decided either by direct democracy or by a supreme court, whichever is appropriate in the case. Things such as tax rates, spending plans etc should never fall into this category. The major items for direct democracy should be changes to the democratic process, and for the courts matters of human rights or interpretation of constitutions.
 
2012-11-08 11:53:34 PM

theknuckler_33: Should be interesting the next few years. Surely the population of California will plummet as people flea the state... amirite?


I'm hoping...

/I'm hoping
//go ahead... make my commute easier
///I dare you
 
2012-11-08 11:56:58 PM
In ca a supermajority is required to raise taxes, which is a huge part of the reason why the state continually lurches from one fiscal crisis to another for years on end with nothing getting structurally fixed. The republicans have never even entertained the idea of raising taxes to go along with spending cuts. It's the model of the 2010 Congress, yes, but in CA we've been stuck here for decades now.
 
2012-11-08 11:57:07 PM
even tho I'm a Dem, there's nothing I hate more than those crooks in Sacramento, from both parties
 
2012-11-09 12:00:27 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Most of those retirees from the 70s are long dead. When a property is sold, it gets reassessed and taxed thereafter at current market value. About the only thing I can see left of Prop 13 is the cap on yearly increases (which is moot since property values have decreased lately), and the really stupid part about commercial property taxes

/what do you think we should change?


Except it doesn't just apply to "retirees from the 70s," nor does the fact that property values have decreased "lately" wipe out 30 years of untaxed value increases.

I'll use myself as an example. Property tax in California is assessed at 1% of assessed value. My home is probably worth, in today's market, around $400K. A couple of years ago, it was probably worth $550K. So my tax should be, what, $4000/yr?

That's less than what my neighbor's property tax is (even though her house is smaller and with less than mine), because she bought hers about 2 years ago, and it was reassessed then. Mine's only about $1700/yr, though, because I bought mine in at the bottom of the market in 1997 and paid only around $130K, and due to Prop 13 the cap on increases hasn't even remotely kept up with the value. How is it fair that my neighbor (a senior citizen, incidentally--the group that Prop 13 was sold as protecting) pays $4500/yr for her smaller, lower value house, whole I pay only $1700 for mine, solely by virtue of when I bought it?

My situation is not the exception--it's the rule. If it weren't for Prop 13, taxes could be equalized, and the percentage rate could be lowered, though based on current value--old farts who owned their home a long time would have a somewhat larger bill, but younger people and other newer buyers would see large tax decreases, and revenue as a whole would increase.

Then, of course, there's the problem that Prop 13--which was sold as a way to keep grandma and grandpa in the family home, also applies to commercial properties. Not only that, commercial landowners completely avoid reassessment even on sale of the property. The do this by holding title in the name of a corporation or other fictitious entity, and instead of selling the "property" they sell 100% of the shares in the holding company (whose only asset is the building). So if the biggest skyscraper in town at 1 Main Street is "owned" by "1 Main Street Management, Inc.," the buyer simply buys 100% of the shares (and assets) of "1 Main Street Management, Inc.," and there's been no change in the title of the property, and thus no transfer of ownership or reassessment under Prop 13 standards. It's a farking scam.

Because California gets little of its tax revenue from property tax--a very stable source of revenue regardless of cyclical economic trends-it's forced to rely on higher income tax and sales tax sources, which are highly dependent on boom-and-bust economic cycles. So when the economy crashes and there's more of a need for government services, California has a lot less income, which puts the state into a double dip death spiral.

Prop 13, more than any other factor, is killing this state.
 
2012-11-09 12:01:22 AM
I was listening to John and Ken (KFI talk show dickbags) complaining about this, and taking calls from people now moving out of state cause of this.

I'm all

"YOU FIRST, DICKBAGS!" I used to listen to these guys all the time. Then I slowly started to realize they were idiots with a poor grasp on diplomacy, tact, and the actual defintiion of politics. Radio shock-jocks indeed.

They helped out the Tea Party get started in California. They complain about all the brown people (But not black, although I may remember a dogwhistle or two).
 
2012-11-09 12:01:37 AM

unit63: In ca a supermajority is required to raise taxes, which is a huge part of the reason why the state continually lurches from one fiscal crisis to another for years on end with nothing getting structurally fixed. The republicans have never even entertained the idea of raising taxes to go along with spending cuts. It's the model of the 2010 Congress, yes, but in CA we've been stuck here for decades now.


Yeah... we missed that in our changes to Prop 13 ideas

/I'm not sure I like the idea of a simple majority rule, but the 2/3 thing hasn't been working well at all
//how can we fix that? Set some other percentage as minimum?
 
2012-11-09 12:01:48 AM
Jon Coupal, president of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, said it would create a dangerous, one-party rule and leave California "very close to becoming a banana republic."

And I'm sure he'd say the same thing about a GOP supermajority, right? Right?
 
2012-11-09 12:01:55 AM
Oh man, this should be fun. Let's see if Dem has the ball to raise those taxes.
 
2012-11-09 12:04:24 AM
Actually, California just voted to raise taxes. That's right folks. We realized we would have to cut expenses and increase revenues to fix our economy so we did it. And what starts in California...
 
2012-11-09 12:04:46 AM

Cyberluddite: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Most of those retirees from the 70s are long dead. When a property is sold, it gets reassessed and taxed thereafter at current market value. About the only thing I can see left of Prop 13 is the cap on yearly increases (which is moot since property values have decreased lately), and the really stupid part about commercial property taxes

/what do you think we should change?

Except it doesn't just apply to "retirees from the 70s," nor does the fact that property values have decreased "lately" wipe out 30 years of untaxed value increases.

I'll use myself as an example. Property tax in California is assessed at 1% of assessed value. My home is probably worth, in today's market, around $400K. A couple of years ago, it was probably worth $550K. So my tax should be, what, $4000/yr?

That's less than what my neighbor's property tax is (even though her house is smaller and with less than mine), because she bought hers about 2 years ago, and it was reassessed then. Mine's only about $1700/yr, though, because I bought mine in at the bottom of the market in 1997 and paid only around $130K, and due to Prop 13 the cap on increases hasn't even remotely kept up with the value. How is it fair that my neighbor (a senior citizen, incidentally--the group that Prop 13 was sold as protecting) pays $4500/yr for her smaller, lower value house, whole I pay only $1700 for mine, solely by virtue of when I bought it?

My situation is not the exception--it's the rule. If it weren't for Prop 13, taxes could be equalized, and the percentage rate could be lowered, though based on current value--old farts who owned their home a long time would have a somewhat larger bill, but younger people and other newer buyers would see large tax decreases, and revenue as a whole would increase.

Then, of course, there's the problem that Prop 13--which was sold as a way to keep grandma and grandpa in the family home, also applies to commercial properties. Not only that, commercial land ...


OK... your ideas for change, then?

/we've already covered removing the increase cap
 
2012-11-09 12:05:16 AM
Well, alright. Let's see what they can do.
 
2012-11-09 12:06:36 AM

theknuckler_33: Surely the population of California will plummet as people flea the state... amirite?


stadium-arcadium.com

Dream of Californication
 
2012-11-09 12:07:21 AM

themindiswatching: Anyway, I can definitely see the Democrats farking this up somehow and causing another Proposition 13.


Oh great... yet another tard who doesn't know shiat from shinola when it comes to Prop 13.

assets.sbnation.com



/Fricking get out of this state ya fricking moran.
 
2012-11-09 12:08:11 AM

ZAZ: MaudlinMutantMollusk

According to a quick Google, California voters passed a law exempting property inherited from parents from reassessment. How many children and grandchildren of 70s retirees are still living in the family house, nearly tax free?


Farmers. Don't mess with farmers. They don't have to sell their food to the cities.
 
2012-11-09 12:10:18 AM

Smeggy Smurf: ZAZ: MaudlinMutantMollusk

According to a quick Google, California voters passed a law exempting property inherited from parents from reassessment. How many children and grandchildren of 70s retirees are still living in the family house, nearly tax free?

Farmers. Don't mess with farmers. They don't have to sell their food to the cities.


Engineers. Don't mess with Engineers. They can build farms in the middle of the cities and we don't have to buy from farmers.
 
2012-11-09 12:11:24 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk:
themindiswatching: MaudlinMutantMollusk: ...
Remove the 1% property tax rate cap, lock the yearly increase cap to CPI and make Proposition 13 only apply to residential property.

Works for me

/but then, I'm no longer a property owner, so I shouldn't have much of a say in the issue


couldn't disagree with this more. i believe in property rights at least as much as the average American, i imagine, but whether or not property is taxed in a democracy is a decision for everyone to make. don't abdicate your say in the matter just because you don't own property - if we only allowed those with skin in the game to make each individual decision, i think it's clear where taxes would be.
 
2012-11-09 12:11:41 AM
What are the farmers going to do, eat all that food themselves?
 
2012-11-09 12:12:00 AM
This supermajority will last exactly as long as it takes for a splinter group of the majority party to realize that by threatening to vote against legislation they can force the rest of the party to send some pork bellies their way.
 
2012-11-09 12:12:30 AM

Smeggy Smurf: Don't mess with farmers. They don't have to sell their food to the cities.


Sure, just avoid the markets where you make money. That will show em.
 
2012-11-09 12:13:08 AM

GAT_00: So I'm guessing Subby would also say the new Republican supermajority here in TN is bad too, right? After all, they have enough power they can suspend the normal rules of order and do whatever the fark they want.


4 years from now TN will be complaining that college acceptance standards are unfairly biased against their students.
 
2012-11-09 12:14:06 AM
Indiana has a super majority in both houses as well, let's see how that ends up.
 
2012-11-09 12:15:17 AM

Cyberluddite: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Most of those retirees from the 70s are long dead. When a property is sold, it gets reassessed and taxed thereafter at current market value. About the only thing I can see left of Prop 13 is the cap on yearly increases (which is moot since property values have decreased lately), and the really stupid part about commercial property taxes

/what do you think we should change?

Except it doesn't just apply to "retirees from the 70s," nor does the fact that property values have decreased "lately" wipe out 30 years of untaxed value increases.

I'll use myself as an example. Property tax in California is assessed at 1% of assessed value. My home is probably worth, in today's market, around $400K. A couple of years ago, it was probably worth $550K. So my tax should be, what, $4000/yr?

That's less than what my neighbor's property tax is (even though her house is smaller and with less than mine), because she bought hers about 2 years ago, and it was reassessed then. Mine's only about $1700/yr, though, because I bought mine in at the bottom of the market in 1997 and paid only around $130K, and due to Prop 13 the cap on increases hasn't even remotely kept up with the value. How is it fair that my neighbor (a senior citizen, incidentally--the group that Prop 13 was sold as protecting) pays $4500/yr for her smaller, lower value house, whole I pay only $1700 for mine, solely by virtue of when I bought it?

My situation is not the exception--it's the rule. If it weren't for Prop 13, taxes could be equalized, and the percentage rate could be lowered, though based on current value--old farts who owned their home a long time would have a somewhat larger bill, but younger people and other newer buyers would see large tax decreases, and revenue as a whole would increase.

Then, of course, there's the problem that Prop 13--which was sold as a way to keep grandma and grandpa in the family home, also applies to commercial properties. Not only that, commercial land ...
blah blah blah...


27.media.tumblr.com


Jesus Christ tap dancing on a Saltine cracker... just how dense are you???? It's the SPENDING that's the problem, not Prop 13.







Prop 13 is probably the one good thing that actually has been done here in CA.






Let me guess, you voted for prop 30 this year, didn't you? Don't bother answering... I already know the answer. Fricking tard.

Get a BRAIN, ya MORAN.
 
2012-11-09 12:15:39 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: OK... your ideas for change, then?

/we've already covered removing the increase cap


The elimination of the annual increase cap and indexing it to CPI or some similar standard (with or without exempting commercial properties from Prop 13) pretty much makes prop 13 a moot point, because that's its centerpiece.

Works for me.
 
2012-11-09 12:17:02 AM
High Speed Rail everywhere!!!!

/seriously...hoping the LA to SF plan happens
 
2012-11-09 12:18:31 AM
California >>>>>>>>>>>>. Texas >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest of the shiat holes in the south.

Just FYI, people.
 
2012-11-09 12:19:10 AM
Richard Roth beat Jeff Miller in District 31, Riverside County

Wow, usually the dems don't run anyone in Riverside because it was so red.

This could be real good but I could see some issues with the legislature having so many dems in control getting away with piss poor legislation


Such a supermajority would also allow Democrats voting as a bloc to place constitutional amendments on the ballot


They could delete prop 8 out of the constitution if the supreme court upholds it.

or override vetoes of Gov. Jerry Brown.

California had a bill that would recognize more than 2 people as guardians of a child and Jerry Brown vetoed it. Imagine the cluster fark in the courts if that had passed.
 
2012-11-09 12:20:16 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk:

OK... your ideas for change, then?

/we've already covered removing the increase cap


How about progressive property tax rates? Houses assessed at $250,000 or less get one rate, $250,000-$500,000 a higher rate, $500,000-$1,000,000 an even higher rate, and so on and so forth.

Also, not sure how it works in CA, but in FL primary residences get a property tax break, which allows the tax to be higher for secondary and vacation homes.

It also seems like it would be a good idea to remove any tax caps on commercial property or property that is registered under a business/corporation to prevent the kind of abuses that Cyberluddite mentioned.
 
2012-11-09 12:20:21 AM
theintelhub.com

Remember the last time we had a REPUBLICAN supermajority?
 
2012-11-09 12:21:35 AM

I Am The Egg Matt Drudge Smears Upon His Body: Bullshi bullshiat bullshiat.


False premise is false.

You're obvoiusly a f*cking moron, and you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about, so I'm not going to wate my time with you, any more than I'd waste my time explaining it to my dog. Go listen to Fox News some more.
 
2012-11-09 12:23:29 AM

I Am The Egg Matt Drudge Smears Upon His Body: /Fricking get out of this state ya fricking moran.


You first.
 
2012-11-09 12:26:45 AM

Cyberluddite: I Am The Egg Matt Drudge Smears Upon His Body: Bullshi bullshiat bullshiat.

False premise is false.

You're obvoiusly a f*cking moron, and you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about, so I'm not going to wate my time with you, any more than I'd waste my time explaining it to my dog. Go listen to Fox News some more.


He does have a point, though. We've saddled ourselves with a LOT of mandated spending, mostly via initiatives. It makes it much harder to make adjustments when you've written required percentages into law

/but if I were to choose a starting point, I'd say we should begin by removing commercial property from Prop 13 coverage
 
2012-11-09 12:30:29 AM

YouAreItNoTagBacks: High Speed Rail everywhere!!!!

/seriously...hoping the LA to SF plan happens


It will happen. Now how long it will take and how much it will actually cost to build is another story. But it will be built.
 
2012-11-09 12:31:27 AM

theknuckler_33: Should be interesting the next few years. Surely the population of California will plummet as people flea the state... amirite?


God, please no!

/Oregonian
 
2012-11-09 12:31:37 AM

YouAreItNoTagBacks: High Speed Rail everywhere!!!!

/seriously...hoping the LA to SF plan happens


You do realize there will likely be a stop in Stockton, right?
 
2012-11-09 12:34:16 AM

Fart_Machine: theknuckler_33: Surely the population of California will plummet as people flea the state... amirite?

[stadium-arcadium.com image 250x313]

Dream of Californication


LMAO!!! was hoping someone would pick up on that!
 
2012-11-09 12:34:31 AM

Snarfangel: theknuckler_33: Should be interesting the next few years. Surely the population of California will plummet as people flea the state... amirite?

God, please no!

/Oregonian


Don't worry...no one wants to go to Oregon. Also, please take your hipsters back (Oaklander).
 
2012-11-09 12:35:24 AM

weltallica: [theintelhub.com image 540x650]

Remember the last time we had a REPUBLICAN supermajority?


No.
 
2012-11-09 12:37:28 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: He does have a point, though. We've saddled ourselves with a LOT of mandated spending, mostly via initiatives. It makes it much harder to make adjustments when you've written required percentages into law


No doubt, but it's more a problem of locking in a dedication of percentages of revenues-- tying everyone's hands regardless of revenue amounts--as compared with total spending as he was claiming, which is actually significantly down (in ratio to GDP as well as per capita) as compared to California's "golden age."

/but if I were to choose a starting point, I'd say we should begin by removing commercial property from Prop 13 coverage

I defitinely agree that this would be the place to start.
 
2012-11-09 12:38:25 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Cyberluddite: I Am The Egg Matt Drudge Smears Upon His Body: Bullshi bullshiat bullshiat.

False premise is false.

You're obvoiusly a f*cking moron, and you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about, so I'm not going to wate my time with you, any more than I'd waste my time explaining it to my dog. Go listen to Fox News some more.

He does have a point, though. We've saddled ourselves with a LOT of mandated spending, mostly via initiatives. It makes it much harder to make adjustments when you've written required percentages into law

/but if I were to choose a starting point, I'd say we should begin by removing commercial property from Prop 13 coverage


I really hope to see the Democratic party start attacking this myth that government spending is a bad thing. The economy doesn't grow without spending. Money changing hands, and hopefully going through as many people as possible, is good for everyone.

Programs that put money back into the hands of the middle and working class, or that free up more take home pay for those outside the 1%, puts money directly back into the local economy where it helps all businesses, and thereby all employees of those businesses and keeps the cycle of growth going. Money is useless to help grow the economy when it's hoarded or invested overseas, and it's the very wealthy that tend to do just that. Every action should be taken to remove money from those that aren't spending it and put it back into the hands of those that are.

Public works projects, infrastructure improvements, government jobs, tax cuts for middle and working class, college tuition waivers for middle and lower income families, government funded research, medicare, medicaid, social security, etc, all allow more money to be spent domestically to the benefit of all.

The only government spending I'm really against are subsidies to fatcat oil companies and defense contractors.
 
2012-11-09 12:40:13 AM
Remember what Nate Silver said about the Republicans running up the numbers so much in deep-red states that they've basically gerrymandered themselves?

Go ahead and let them all cower in Alabama and Idaho and Kansas. Better working majorities for the rest of the country and the feds can drag the red states along kicking and screaming.
 
2012-11-09 12:41:02 AM
Wait, so in California the MAX you can pay in property taxes is 1% of the assessed value? Seriously?
 
2012-11-09 12:42:02 AM

weltallica: [theintelhub.com image 540x650]

Remember the last time we had a REPUBLICAN supermajority?


No I don't remember a supermajority causing or even allowing that to happen. Do you ever post anything BUT that photo?
 
2012-11-09 12:43:09 AM

organizm: Wait, so in California the MAX you can pay in property taxes is 1% of the assessed value? Seriously?


No, that's the maximum your taxes can be increased per year, no matter how much the value appreciates
 
2012-11-09 12:44:59 AM

Notabunny: YouAreItNoTagBacks: High Speed Rail everywhere!!!!

/seriously...hoping the LA to SF plan happens

You do realize there will likely be a stop in Stockton, right?


That's just in the long-term late phase when the ACE and/or San Joaquin Amtrak train lines get upgraded. The Sacramento spur will parallel route 99 and have a stop in Stockton, but the LA-SF route will cut west at Pacheco Pass and head through San Jose.
 
2012-11-09 12:52:03 AM
Don't worry. We Californians are a forward-looking bunch.

i48.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-09 12:54:56 AM
I moved out of California in 1999, so I'm getting a kick, etc.

/3 inches of snow expected here between now and Saturday, so moving back has some appeal.
//Unemployment in California is twice what it is where I live now.
 
2012-11-09 12:56:07 AM
I'm going to go out on a cliff here and guess two things.

The first being the Democrats will not take responsibility for the mess they've made in that state.

The second being that they will not improve things, only make them worse.
 
2012-11-09 12:58:05 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: This should be... interesting

MorrisBird: themindiswatching: Speaking of supermajorities, why is it that Republicans want California to become a red state again? It's seriously their dream every election.

Because, all the leaves are brown, and the sky is gray.

And 55 Electoral votes

/on a Winter's day


Except that California has signed on to the "whoever gets the majority of the national vote gets our electoral votes" movement. As soon as enough states pass that law to total 270 electoral votes, the national winner gets the 55, not the person who get the majority in Cali.
 
2012-11-09 12:58:47 AM

randomjsa: I'm going to go out on a cliff here and guess two things.

transitionculture.org

blogs.northcountrypublicradio.org

 
2012-11-09 12:59:05 AM

randomjsa: I'm going to go out on a cliff here


Would you? Please?

I'd like that.
 
2012-11-09 12:59:07 AM

zimbach: Notabunny: YouAreItNoTagBacks: High Speed Rail everywhere!!!!

/seriously...hoping the LA to SF plan happens

You do realize there will likely be a stop in Stockton, right?

That's just in the long-term late phase when the ACE and/or San Joaquin Amtrak train lines get upgraded. The Sacramento spur will parallel route 99 and have a stop in Stockton, but the LA-SF route will cut west at Pacheco Pass and head through San Jose.


I'm tellin' ya, some Stocktonian will attempt a trainjacking and demand to be taken to Hawaii.
 
2012-11-09 01:00:07 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: organizm: Wait, so in California the MAX you can pay in property taxes is 1% of the assessed value? Seriously?

No, that's the maximum your taxes can be increased per year, no matter how much the value appreciates


No, what organizm asked is correct. The first paragraph of Prop 13 reads as follows:

Section 1. (a) The maximum amount of any ad valorem tax on real property shall not exceed one percent (1%) of the full cash value of such property. The one percent (1%) tax to be collected by the counties and apportioned according to law to the districts within the counties.

But that's not the big issue. The bigger issue is properties are reassessed only upon sale, and annual increases in valuation are capped at 2%, regardless of the actual increase in value. So, for example, I bought my house for around $130K in 1997, which meant that the tax was $1300/yr. Ten years later, it was probably worth $500,000, which meant that, if I sold it, the buyer would be paying around $5000/yr. But since I still owned it, it could only increase 2% a year for each of those 10 years, so I paid only around $1600/yr ($1300 + 20%), less than one-third of what a new or first-time buyer would be paying for the same house next door.
 
2012-11-09 01:01:21 AM

Notabunny: zimbach: Notabunny: YouAreItNoTagBacks: High Speed Rail everywhere!!!!

/seriously...hoping the LA to SF plan happens

You do realize there will likely be a stop in Stockton, right?

That's just in the long-term late phase when the ACE and/or San Joaquin Amtrak train lines get upgraded. The Sacramento spur will parallel route 99 and have a stop in Stockton, but the LA-SF route will cut west at Pacheco Pass and head through San Jose.

I'm tellin' ya, some Stocktonian will attempt a trainjacking and demand to be taken to Hawaii.


What kinda of idiot would think HSR would go to Hawaii. Oh, wait...Stockton...nm.
 
2012-11-09 01:03:25 AM
Three point plan to getting California heading in the right direction again:

1) Make only a simple majority instead of a super majority required to pass a budget.
2) Get rid of the stupid unfunded ballot initiatives - bye bye proposition system.
3) Reform property tax code.

I'm actually fairly certain that you could get a majority of both Dems and Reps to agree on 2 of those 3 suggestions. The tax code thing is difficult, but necessary. It will face huge resistanes in San Diego county however,but then again I don't own a home in La Jolla. :o
 
2012-11-09 01:08:05 AM
Also, I want to point out - Jerry Brown is the farking man.

Unlike most gutless politicians these days, he put his balls on the line for Prop 30 and got evil death threats from Republicans and almost no backing from his own party. People were saying that he was signing his own death sentance and that the state was ungovernable.

Well guess what? The state is governable, it just needs an actual governor.

Agree with him or not, the fact is you don't see that kind of political guts hardly at all anymore. Maybe now that he has a super majority in both houses he can undo a few decades of nonsense across both parties.
 
2012-11-09 01:11:44 AM

Snarfangel: theknuckler_33: Should be interesting the next few years. Surely the population of California will plummet as people flea the state... amirite?

God, please no!

/Oregonian


Californians have been leaving for the past decade because of the cost of living here. Not enough to stop its growth, but it sure has slowed down a lot. Transplants from CA may be one reason that Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico went blue.

California's been in gridlock for years between Republicans and Democrats. And the state has been a prediction of what happens nationally ... so a dem majority Congress soon?
 
2012-11-09 01:14:02 AM

themindiswatching: MaudlinMutantMollusk: About the only thing I can see left of Prop 13 is the cap on yearly increases (which is moot since property values have decreased lately), and the really stupid part about commercial property taxes

/what do you think we should change?

Remove the 1% property tax rate cap, lock the yearly increase cap to CPI and make Proposition 13 only apply to residential property.


That first part is pretty much what we had prior to Prop 13 and people were getting taxed out of their homes during the Carter years as inflation hit 18+%. Given the way the feds are spending borrowed money, those days will be here again.

California has plenty of other revenue sources, including a sales tax rate near the highest in the nation, the highest gasoline tax rate, and now the highest income tax rate. We're about to get massively higher energy bills thanks to the state's new cap-and-trade system that will cost businesses and consumers billions a year and that will deliver those billions to the state treasury. The obsession that the left has over Prop 13 property taxes, the one area where the citizens have managed to escape their plundering, is insane and indicative of just how fanatical they get when they think they're losing out on a single dollar of additional money to spend.
 
2012-11-09 01:16:38 AM

TwistedFark: Three point plan to getting California heading in the right direction again:

1) Make only a simple majority instead of a super majority required to pass a budget.


Ummmm . . . we already did this. Last November, Prop 25, which passed, and applied to the budget this year for the first time. The problem is that it still requires a 2/3 majority to change taxes (and another ballot initiative that passed in the same election extended the 2/3 requirement to increases in fees as well), so only spending, and not revenue, can now be controlled by a simple majority.
 
2012-11-09 01:18:16 AM

jjorsett: Don't worry. We Californians are a forward-looking bunch.

[i48.tinypic.com image 800x534]


Arizona, really?
 
2012-11-09 01:28:24 AM

jjorsett: We're about to get massively higher energy bills thanks to the state's new cap-and-trade system that will cost businesses and consumers billions a year


If by massive you mean about a $100 a year for the average consumer then yes.
 
2012-11-09 01:29:36 AM

Fart_Machine: jjorsett: Don't worry. We Californians are a forward-looking bunch.

[i48.tinypic.com image 800x534]

Arizona, really?


Well, if I made the sign say, "Welcome to Texas", all the lefties would be going, "Yaaa, yure so stooopid! Texas ain't next to California." Abstract concepts and artistic license are lost on them.
 
2012-11-09 01:35:58 AM

Fart_Machine: jjorsett: We're about to get massively higher energy bills thanks to the state's new cap-and-trade system that will cost businesses and consumers billions a year

If by massive you mean about a $100 a year for the average consumer then yes.


You're citing direct costs (energy bills), and you're using the soothing, "this suppository won't hurt, trust us!" numbers the government is putting out. Everything that requires energy to produce, move, or sell, which is, well, everything, is going to cost more. Nobody has any real idea how much yet because they're just getting this puppy warmed up, but the number isn't going lower. Trust me like I'm the government.
 
2012-11-09 01:43:03 AM

jjorsett: California has plenty of other revenue sources, including a sales tax rate near the highest in the nation, the highest gasoline tax rate, and now the highest income tax rate.


California's income tax rate isn't the highest. It's actually the 10th highest, with an average rate of 5.8%, which is lower than even some red states such as Tennessee (6%) and North Carolina (6.92%), and much lower than its neighbor to the north, Oregon (8.56%). Yes, the gas tax is high, but it's not the highest--it's actually #3 behind NY and CT (though many others are only a few cents behind). Yes, the base state sales tax rate is the highest, but when you add in the maximum allowable local sales tax rate, several states have higher maximum rates.

If we're going to discuss this, let's at least use genuine numbers.

By the way, in total tax dollars colected per capita, California ranks 38 of 50--despite having one of the highest per capita income rates (and highest real estate values) of any state.
 
2012-11-09 01:43:34 AM

TwistedFark: Also, I want to point out - Jerry Brown is the farking man.

Unlike most gutless politicians these days, he put his balls on the line for Prop 30 and got evil death threats from Republicans and almost no backing from his own party. People were saying that he was signing his own death sentance and that the state was ungovernable.

Well guess what? The state is governable, it just needs an actual governor.

Agree with him or not, the fact is you don't see that kind of political guts hardly at all anymore. Maybe now that he has a super majority in both houses he can undo a few decades of nonsense across both parties.


This. The man does not f*ck around.
 
2012-11-09 01:43:53 AM

jjorsett: Fart_Machine: jjorsett: We're about to get massively higher energy bills thanks to the state's new cap-and-trade system that will cost businesses and consumers billions a year

If by massive you mean about a $100 a year for the average consumer then yes.

You're citing direct costs (energy bills), and you're using the soothing, "this suppository won't hurt, trust us!" numbers the government is putting out. Everything that requires energy to produce, move, or sell, which is, well, everything, is going to cost more. Nobody has any real idea how much yet because they're just getting this puppy warmed up, but the number isn't going lower. Trust me like I'm the government.


Or trust you with words like massive and billions without any real data?
 
2012-11-09 01:47:58 AM

jjorsett: Fart_Machine: jjorsett: Don't worry. We Californians are a forward-looking bunch.

[i48.tinypic.com image 800x534]

Arizona, really?

Well, if I made the sign say, "Welcome to Texas", all the lefties would be going, "Yaaa, yure so stooopid! Texas ain't next to California." Abstract concepts and artistic license are lost on them.


So where is Arizona going to get all that federal money if donor states like California lose their population?
 
2012-11-09 01:51:08 AM

Notabunny: I'm hoping for an oil extraction tax. We'll see.



And a Tobin Tax to end high frequency trading, which will bring back true price discovery in the financial markets and crush some of the most crooked and powerful Wall Street bank's balls in a vice.
 
2012-11-09 01:54:26 AM

Cyberluddite: If we're going to discuss this, let's at least use genuine numbers.


He's using unskewed, Republican numbers.
 
2012-11-09 01:54:36 AM

Cyberluddite: TwistedFark: Three point plan to getting California heading in the right direction again:

1) Make only a simple majority instead of a super majority required to pass a budget.

Ummmm . . . we already did this. Last November, Prop 25, which passed, and applied to the budget this year for the first time. The problem is that it still requires a 2/3 majority to change taxes (and another ballot initiative that passed in the same election extended the 2/3 requirement to increases in fees as well), so only spending, and not revenue, can now be controlled by a simple majority.


Well shiat, how come no one told me this when I was back home in San Diego last month??? This is the most disconcerting part of being over seas for me, I feel like I lose track of so many things :(

Still... how do they plan to deal with unfunded ballot initiatives? Can they cut them from the budget somehow with a simple majority even if it passed as a referendum?
 
2012-11-09 01:58:19 AM

jjorsett: Don't worry. We Californians are a forward-looking bunch.

[i48.tinypic.com image 800x534]


So, you're leaving?

Awesome! Good luck! Need some help moving?!?
 
2012-11-09 02:23:27 AM

TwistedFark: Still... how do they plan to deal with unfunded ballot initiatives? Can they cut them from the budget somehow with a simple majority even if it passed as a referendum?


Generally, the answer is no--most ballot initiatives (especially those implemented as amendments to the state constitution) can only be modified by another ballot initiative. And, as has been pointed out, ballot-box budgeting (in the form of unchangeable, locked-in mandates) is one of the big roadblocks to the state getting its financial house in order.
 
2012-11-09 02:29:04 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Cyberluddite: I Am The Egg Matt Drudge Smears Upon His Body: Bullshi bullshiat bullshiat.

False premise is false.

You're obvoiusly a f*cking moron, and you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about, so I'm not going to wate my time with you, any more than I'd waste my time explaining it to my dog. Go listen to Fox News some more.

He does have a point, though.


He may. But being such a colossal dick about it sorta overshadows that.
 
2012-11-09 02:46:48 AM
If they get too aggro about wanting to raise taxes, or want to spend too much money (which they will), they are going to run into a roadblock named Jerry.
Don't F with the Jerry.
 
2012-11-09 02:53:27 AM

Practical_Draconian: Californians have been leaving for the past decade because of the cost of living here.


And yet, the population has not declined significantly. It's almost as if some people moved to California.
 
2012-11-09 03:33:34 AM

GAT_00: So I'm guessing Subby would also say the new Republican supermajority here in TN is bad too, right? After all, they have enough power they can suspend the normal rules of order and do whatever the fark they want.


Tennessee can have all the personhood amendments and Citizens United billionaire buyouts and unionbusting laws and voter suppression laws and DOMA laws that you like. California's going forward without Obstructionist Republicans. And as California goes, so will go the Union. The Confederacy can screw up its own states any way it wants.
 
2012-11-09 03:44:45 AM

culebra: Your kids will meditate in school.


That is a good thing. Already happening. See: David Lynch Foundation.
 
2012-11-09 03:48:13 AM

jjorsett: Fart_Machine: jjorsett: Don't worry. We Californians are a forward-looking bunch.

[i48.tinypic.com image 800x534]

Arizona, really?

Well, if I made the sign say, "Welcome to Texas", all the lefties would be going, "Yaaa, yure so stooopid! Texas ain't next to California." Abstract concepts and artistic license are lost on them.


Well, Flagstaff is nice. But your overall point is pants-on-head retarded.
 
2012-11-09 04:00:15 AM

jjorsett: Don't worry. We Californians are a forward-looking bunch.

[i48.tinypic.com image 800x534]


You know that Arizona is a garbage dump with a shiatty economy and one of the three worst education systems in the country, right?

/Former Scottsdale resident
//The place is a wreck, much like Jan Brewer's policy initiatives.
 
2012-11-09 04:25:21 AM

Smelly McUgly: jjorsett: Don't worry. We Californians are a forward-looking bunch.

[i48.tinypic.com image 800x534]

You know that Arizona is a garbage dump with a shiatty economy and one of the three worst education systems in the country, right?

/Former Scottsdale resident
//The place is a wreck, much like Jan Brewer's policy initiatives.


Arizona is going to go blue in less than a decade from now. If current demographic trends continue, Latinos are going to make up 29% of the voting electorate. Oh oh ho.
 
2012-11-09 05:28:05 AM

dr_blasto: Nice to see fixing their stupid referendum process is on the list.


Dare I hope? I don't know - it's been a third rail for so long it's hard for me to imagine anybody having the balls to go after it. It could save California if they did, but i'm not holding my breath.
 
2012-11-09 05:33:41 AM

Smelly McUgly: jjorsett: Don't worry. We Californians are a forward-looking bunch.

[i48.tinypic.com image 800x534]

You know that Arizona is a garbage dump with a shiatty economy and one of the three worst education systems in the country, right?

/Former Scottsdale resident
//The place is a wreck, much like Jan Brewer's policy initiatives.


Jan Brewer is an absolute Bachmann type disaster. I cant believe that crap she's been behind. Are the old farks in Sun City and Surprise really so influential that they can keep her and Joe in power? just amazing.

/lived in glendale 2 years.
 
2012-11-09 05:39:00 AM
Id like to see the following happen to CA's politics:

Gun/kill/draw and quarter Prop 13 and do a progressive tax on real estate. FIX THE REAL ESTATE TAXES.

Pass a proposition which KILLS propositions. No more, ever ever. We elect govt officials to govern in our name. Let them do their jobs and quit f'in with the budgets and earmark this and that for this pet project because it was a prop. F THE PROPS. Unless youre Switzerland there's a reason why no one uses direct democracy any longer. KILL THE PROPS

And as much as im a lefty in most things, one of the few things the Right is, erm, right about in CA: the CA State pension schemes are seriously out of whack and in dire need of serious gutting and reform; collecting pensions greater than your salary because you cash out your vacation time last year on the job and as such get pensioned at your last year... these kinds of costs are not ok. REVAMP STATE PENSION SCHEMES
 
2012-11-09 05:41:51 AM

ZAZ: It's also true that being a Democrat means you can screw up the state as much as you like. They don't fear being voted out in favor of Republicans.


That's why I hope to see the GOP get out of this derpy, extremist, Party-Uber-Alles phase and quickly. Democrats need a believable opposition.

/D, for now anyway
 
2012-11-09 05:53:01 AM

GAT_00: So I'm guessing Subby would also say the new Republican supermajority here in TN is bad too, right? After all, they have enough power they can suspend the normal rules of order and do whatever the fark they want.


Which state will go bankrupt first?

/I know I responded a post without agreeing. I hope you don't go to the mods to ban me again.
 
2012-11-09 06:47:14 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: kmmontandon: No, we can still blame Prop. 13 and Grover Norquist.

This state has been continually f*cked by a pack of scared retirees in the '70s, and the assholes that pandered to them, because inflation would totally last forever, so we can never, ever adjust property taxes or reassess old properties.

Most of those retirees from the 70s are long dead. When a property is sold, it gets reassessed and taxed thereafter at current market value. About the only thing I can see left of Prop 13 is the cap on yearly increases (which is moot since property values have decreased lately), and the really stupid part about commercial property taxes

/what do you think we should change?


My understanding - (As a MD resident who only breifly looked into this a while back) Corporate/corporate rental property and a lot of high dollar personal property in California is often held by a company designed specifically to hold those properties. When the land changes hands, the corporation is sold, not the actual property. As such, the taxes aren't re-assessed as the same owner maintains ownership throughout.
 
2012-11-09 06:53:15 AM
And we know what happened to both death stars.
 
2012-11-09 07:05:41 AM

Cyberluddite: Prop 13, more than any other factor, is killing this state.


So the drunken sailor-esque out of control spending is in no way a factor??
 
2012-11-09 07:21:24 AM
randomjsa

I'm going to go out on a cliff here

Please do.
 
2012-11-09 07:31:49 AM

jso2897: dr_blasto: Nice to see fixing their stupid referendum process is on the list.

Dare I hope? I don't know - it's been a third rail for so long it's hard for me to imagine anybody having the balls to go after it. It could save California if they did, but i'm not holding my breath.


That has to be addressed at some point. The entire state government is completely hamstrung and unable to do anything to resolve their fiscal problems and as long as people can just do a prop-whatever to make shiat happen their way, there's absolutely no way to pay for any of it.
 
2012-11-09 07:36:46 AM

Father_Jack: Gun/kill/draw and quarter Prop 13 and do a progressive tax on real estate. FIX THE REAL ESTATE TAXES.


That's an issue. My recollection is that the current bit only really affects people who are buying houses, but large and expensive commercial real estate is never sold so much as held by holding companies to allow corporations to have fancy office buildings with tax rates from the friggin 70's.

I don't know the details of the pension system there, but if CA has hired someone and in their contract they've obligated themselves to a pension plan of XX, then they need to honor that. I would say it is reasonable to start new hires out with a revamped system, but how would they get away with dishonoring their existing contracts?
 
2012-11-09 08:23:43 AM

randomjsa: I'm going to go out on a cliff here and guess two things.

The first being the Democrats will not take responsibility for the mess they've made in that state.

The second being that they will not improve things, only make them worse.


>checks randomjsa's track record on predictions*phew*
 
2012-11-09 09:06:14 AM

MorrisBird: themindiswatching: Speaking of supermajorities, why is it that Republicans want California to become a red state again? It's seriously their dream every election.

Because, all the leaves are brown, and the sky is gray.


brilliant
 
2012-11-09 09:08:39 AM

GAT_00: So I'm guessing Subby would also say the new Republican supermajority here in TN is bad too, right? After all, they have enough power they can suspend the normal rules of order and do whatever the fark they want.


Don't know about subby, but I certainly would.
 
Xai
2012-11-09 09:16:08 AM
I would love to see what the republicans say after california becomes an economic powerhouse...
 
2012-11-09 10:10:44 AM

dr_blasto: Nice to see fixing their stupid referendum process is on the list.


Hell yeah.
 
2012-11-09 10:18:31 AM

Cyberluddite: California's income tax rate isn't the highest. It's actually the 10th highest, with an average rate of 5.8%, which is lower than even some red states such as Tennessee (6%) and North Carolina (6.92%), and much lower than its neighbor to the north, Oregon (8.56%).


I am not sure what you are refering to here, but Tennessee does not have an income tax, only sales tax.
 
2012-11-09 10:38:58 AM

dinomyar: I am not sure what you are refering to here, but Tennessee does not have an income tax, only sales tax.


I was basing it off the table that I linked, and I don't personally know one way or the other. But according to this, TN has a flat 6% tax on all income, starting from the first dollar, but it looks like ordinary wages are exempt, so it applies mostly to investment income, capital gains, etc.
 
2012-11-09 12:27:13 PM

TwistedFark: Also, I want to point out - Jerry Brown is the farking man.

Unlike most gutless politicians these days, he put his balls on the line for Prop 30 and got evil death threats from Republicans and almost no backing from his own party. People were saying that he was signing his own death sentance and that the state was ungovernable.

Well guess what? The state is governable, it just needs an actual governor.

Agree with him or not, the fact is you don't see that kind of political guts hardly at all anymore. Maybe now that he has a super majority in both houses he can undo a few decades of nonsense across both parties.


By raising taxes with absolutely no reform or spending cuts? How exactly has he changed ANYTHING except to get more money to pay for the stuff already in place? No pension reform. Nothing.

The CTA and Unions run the state. Former Senate Protem, Democrat (and former teacher) Don Peralta when asked about Prop 32 said that the CTA wields WAY too much power and that the state is basically enslaved. When even the Dems are worried about the power of Unions you would think there needs to be some reform. The CTA is by far the biggest $$ in the state FAR outspending big oil and other "evil" corporations. Nothing, NOTHING happens in Sacramento without the CTA's blessing. Even the farking LA Times is concerned about the power they wield.

Link
 
2012-11-09 12:34:52 PM
Every loony lefty wet dream can now come true.

Expect new regulations on avg MPG for vehicles to the point that everyone will be riding a bicycle to work
And if that doesn't work expect carbon tax and other taxes to make fossil fuels so expensive that no one will be able to afford gas. In an effort to make everyone green the cost of energy will skyrocket. This, combined with the upcoming mega-inflation, will make consumer prices soar. Wonder who people will blame when gas in $8 a gallon and a loaf of bread costs $12
 
2012-11-09 09:45:19 PM

badaboom: Every loony lefty wet dream can now come true.

Expect new regulations on avg MPG for vehicles to the point that everyone will be riding a bicycle to work


Hey, man, a new Focus is something like $16-17k and gets 40mpg without requiring tithing to China to get batteries.
 
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