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(SacBee)   Now witness the power of this fully armed and operational Democratic supermajority. At least they won't have anyone else to blame when it all falls apart   (sacbee.com) divider line 124
    More: Scary, Democrats, supermajority, President Pro Tem, Steinberg, one-party state, Sacramento County, power corrupts, Jon Coupal  
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4849 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Nov 2012 at 11:36 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-09 12:20:16 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk:

OK... your ideas for change, then?

/we've already covered removing the increase cap


How about progressive property tax rates? Houses assessed at $250,000 or less get one rate, $250,000-$500,000 a higher rate, $500,000-$1,000,000 an even higher rate, and so on and so forth.

Also, not sure how it works in CA, but in FL primary residences get a property tax break, which allows the tax to be higher for secondary and vacation homes.

It also seems like it would be a good idea to remove any tax caps on commercial property or property that is registered under a business/corporation to prevent the kind of abuses that Cyberluddite mentioned.
 
2012-11-09 12:20:21 AM
theintelhub.com

Remember the last time we had a REPUBLICAN supermajority?
 
2012-11-09 12:21:35 AM

I Am The Egg Matt Drudge Smears Upon His Body: Bullshi bullshiat bullshiat.


False premise is false.

You're obvoiusly a f*cking moron, and you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about, so I'm not going to wate my time with you, any more than I'd waste my time explaining it to my dog. Go listen to Fox News some more.
 
2012-11-09 12:23:29 AM

I Am The Egg Matt Drudge Smears Upon His Body: /Fricking get out of this state ya fricking moran.


You first.
 
2012-11-09 12:26:45 AM

Cyberluddite: I Am The Egg Matt Drudge Smears Upon His Body: Bullshi bullshiat bullshiat.

False premise is false.

You're obvoiusly a f*cking moron, and you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about, so I'm not going to wate my time with you, any more than I'd waste my time explaining it to my dog. Go listen to Fox News some more.


He does have a point, though. We've saddled ourselves with a LOT of mandated spending, mostly via initiatives. It makes it much harder to make adjustments when you've written required percentages into law

/but if I were to choose a starting point, I'd say we should begin by removing commercial property from Prop 13 coverage
 
2012-11-09 12:30:29 AM

YouAreItNoTagBacks: High Speed Rail everywhere!!!!

/seriously...hoping the LA to SF plan happens


It will happen. Now how long it will take and how much it will actually cost to build is another story. But it will be built.
 
2012-11-09 12:31:27 AM

theknuckler_33: Should be interesting the next few years. Surely the population of California will plummet as people flea the state... amirite?


God, please no!

/Oregonian
 
2012-11-09 12:31:37 AM

YouAreItNoTagBacks: High Speed Rail everywhere!!!!

/seriously...hoping the LA to SF plan happens


You do realize there will likely be a stop in Stockton, right?
 
2012-11-09 12:34:16 AM

Fart_Machine: theknuckler_33: Surely the population of California will plummet as people flea the state... amirite?

[stadium-arcadium.com image 250x313]

Dream of Californication


LMAO!!! was hoping someone would pick up on that!
 
2012-11-09 12:34:31 AM

Snarfangel: theknuckler_33: Should be interesting the next few years. Surely the population of California will plummet as people flea the state... amirite?

God, please no!

/Oregonian


Don't worry...no one wants to go to Oregon. Also, please take your hipsters back (Oaklander).
 
2012-11-09 12:35:24 AM

weltallica: [theintelhub.com image 540x650]

Remember the last time we had a REPUBLICAN supermajority?


No.
 
2012-11-09 12:37:28 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: He does have a point, though. We've saddled ourselves with a LOT of mandated spending, mostly via initiatives. It makes it much harder to make adjustments when you've written required percentages into law


No doubt, but it's more a problem of locking in a dedication of percentages of revenues-- tying everyone's hands regardless of revenue amounts--as compared with total spending as he was claiming, which is actually significantly down (in ratio to GDP as well as per capita) as compared to California's "golden age."

/but if I were to choose a starting point, I'd say we should begin by removing commercial property from Prop 13 coverage

I defitinely agree that this would be the place to start.
 
2012-11-09 12:38:25 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Cyberluddite: I Am The Egg Matt Drudge Smears Upon His Body: Bullshi bullshiat bullshiat.

False premise is false.

You're obvoiusly a f*cking moron, and you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about, so I'm not going to wate my time with you, any more than I'd waste my time explaining it to my dog. Go listen to Fox News some more.

He does have a point, though. We've saddled ourselves with a LOT of mandated spending, mostly via initiatives. It makes it much harder to make adjustments when you've written required percentages into law

/but if I were to choose a starting point, I'd say we should begin by removing commercial property from Prop 13 coverage


I really hope to see the Democratic party start attacking this myth that government spending is a bad thing. The economy doesn't grow without spending. Money changing hands, and hopefully going through as many people as possible, is good for everyone.

Programs that put money back into the hands of the middle and working class, or that free up more take home pay for those outside the 1%, puts money directly back into the local economy where it helps all businesses, and thereby all employees of those businesses and keeps the cycle of growth going. Money is useless to help grow the economy when it's hoarded or invested overseas, and it's the very wealthy that tend to do just that. Every action should be taken to remove money from those that aren't spending it and put it back into the hands of those that are.

Public works projects, infrastructure improvements, government jobs, tax cuts for middle and working class, college tuition waivers for middle and lower income families, government funded research, medicare, medicaid, social security, etc, all allow more money to be spent domestically to the benefit of all.

The only government spending I'm really against are subsidies to fatcat oil companies and defense contractors.
 
2012-11-09 12:40:13 AM
Remember what Nate Silver said about the Republicans running up the numbers so much in deep-red states that they've basically gerrymandered themselves?

Go ahead and let them all cower in Alabama and Idaho and Kansas. Better working majorities for the rest of the country and the feds can drag the red states along kicking and screaming.
 
2012-11-09 12:41:02 AM
Wait, so in California the MAX you can pay in property taxes is 1% of the assessed value? Seriously?
 
2012-11-09 12:42:02 AM

weltallica: [theintelhub.com image 540x650]

Remember the last time we had a REPUBLICAN supermajority?


No I don't remember a supermajority causing or even allowing that to happen. Do you ever post anything BUT that photo?
 
2012-11-09 12:43:09 AM

organizm: Wait, so in California the MAX you can pay in property taxes is 1% of the assessed value? Seriously?


No, that's the maximum your taxes can be increased per year, no matter how much the value appreciates
 
2012-11-09 12:44:59 AM

Notabunny: YouAreItNoTagBacks: High Speed Rail everywhere!!!!

/seriously...hoping the LA to SF plan happens

You do realize there will likely be a stop in Stockton, right?


That's just in the long-term late phase when the ACE and/or San Joaquin Amtrak train lines get upgraded. The Sacramento spur will parallel route 99 and have a stop in Stockton, but the LA-SF route will cut west at Pacheco Pass and head through San Jose.
 
2012-11-09 12:52:03 AM
Don't worry. We Californians are a forward-looking bunch.

i48.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-09 12:54:56 AM
I moved out of California in 1999, so I'm getting a kick, etc.

/3 inches of snow expected here between now and Saturday, so moving back has some appeal.
//Unemployment in California is twice what it is where I live now.
 
2012-11-09 12:56:07 AM
I'm going to go out on a cliff here and guess two things.

The first being the Democrats will not take responsibility for the mess they've made in that state.

The second being that they will not improve things, only make them worse.
 
2012-11-09 12:58:05 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: This should be... interesting

MorrisBird: themindiswatching: Speaking of supermajorities, why is it that Republicans want California to become a red state again? It's seriously their dream every election.

Because, all the leaves are brown, and the sky is gray.

And 55 Electoral votes

/on a Winter's day


Except that California has signed on to the "whoever gets the majority of the national vote gets our electoral votes" movement. As soon as enough states pass that law to total 270 electoral votes, the national winner gets the 55, not the person who get the majority in Cali.
 
2012-11-09 12:58:47 AM

randomjsa: I'm going to go out on a cliff here and guess two things.

transitionculture.org

blogs.northcountrypublicradio.org

 
2012-11-09 12:59:05 AM

randomjsa: I'm going to go out on a cliff here


Would you? Please?

I'd like that.
 
2012-11-09 12:59:07 AM

zimbach: Notabunny: YouAreItNoTagBacks: High Speed Rail everywhere!!!!

/seriously...hoping the LA to SF plan happens

You do realize there will likely be a stop in Stockton, right?

That's just in the long-term late phase when the ACE and/or San Joaquin Amtrak train lines get upgraded. The Sacramento spur will parallel route 99 and have a stop in Stockton, but the LA-SF route will cut west at Pacheco Pass and head through San Jose.


I'm tellin' ya, some Stocktonian will attempt a trainjacking and demand to be taken to Hawaii.
 
2012-11-09 01:00:07 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: organizm: Wait, so in California the MAX you can pay in property taxes is 1% of the assessed value? Seriously?

No, that's the maximum your taxes can be increased per year, no matter how much the value appreciates


No, what organizm asked is correct. The first paragraph of Prop 13 reads as follows:

Section 1. (a) The maximum amount of any ad valorem tax on real property shall not exceed one percent (1%) of the full cash value of such property. The one percent (1%) tax to be collected by the counties and apportioned according to law to the districts within the counties.

But that's not the big issue. The bigger issue is properties are reassessed only upon sale, and annual increases in valuation are capped at 2%, regardless of the actual increase in value. So, for example, I bought my house for around $130K in 1997, which meant that the tax was $1300/yr. Ten years later, it was probably worth $500,000, which meant that, if I sold it, the buyer would be paying around $5000/yr. But since I still owned it, it could only increase 2% a year for each of those 10 years, so I paid only around $1600/yr ($1300 + 20%), less than one-third of what a new or first-time buyer would be paying for the same house next door.
 
2012-11-09 01:01:21 AM

Notabunny: zimbach: Notabunny: YouAreItNoTagBacks: High Speed Rail everywhere!!!!

/seriously...hoping the LA to SF plan happens

You do realize there will likely be a stop in Stockton, right?

That's just in the long-term late phase when the ACE and/or San Joaquin Amtrak train lines get upgraded. The Sacramento spur will parallel route 99 and have a stop in Stockton, but the LA-SF route will cut west at Pacheco Pass and head through San Jose.

I'm tellin' ya, some Stocktonian will attempt a trainjacking and demand to be taken to Hawaii.


What kinda of idiot would think HSR would go to Hawaii. Oh, wait...Stockton...nm.
 
2012-11-09 01:03:25 AM
Three point plan to getting California heading in the right direction again:

1) Make only a simple majority instead of a super majority required to pass a budget.
2) Get rid of the stupid unfunded ballot initiatives - bye bye proposition system.
3) Reform property tax code.

I'm actually fairly certain that you could get a majority of both Dems and Reps to agree on 2 of those 3 suggestions. The tax code thing is difficult, but necessary. It will face huge resistanes in San Diego county however,but then again I don't own a home in La Jolla. :o
 
2012-11-09 01:08:05 AM
Also, I want to point out - Jerry Brown is the farking man.

Unlike most gutless politicians these days, he put his balls on the line for Prop 30 and got evil death threats from Republicans and almost no backing from his own party. People were saying that he was signing his own death sentance and that the state was ungovernable.

Well guess what? The state is governable, it just needs an actual governor.

Agree with him or not, the fact is you don't see that kind of political guts hardly at all anymore. Maybe now that he has a super majority in both houses he can undo a few decades of nonsense across both parties.
 
2012-11-09 01:11:44 AM

Snarfangel: theknuckler_33: Should be interesting the next few years. Surely the population of California will plummet as people flea the state... amirite?

God, please no!

/Oregonian


Californians have been leaving for the past decade because of the cost of living here. Not enough to stop its growth, but it sure has slowed down a lot. Transplants from CA may be one reason that Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico went blue.

California's been in gridlock for years between Republicans and Democrats. And the state has been a prediction of what happens nationally ... so a dem majority Congress soon?
 
2012-11-09 01:14:02 AM

themindiswatching: MaudlinMutantMollusk: About the only thing I can see left of Prop 13 is the cap on yearly increases (which is moot since property values have decreased lately), and the really stupid part about commercial property taxes

/what do you think we should change?

Remove the 1% property tax rate cap, lock the yearly increase cap to CPI and make Proposition 13 only apply to residential property.


That first part is pretty much what we had prior to Prop 13 and people were getting taxed out of their homes during the Carter years as inflation hit 18+%. Given the way the feds are spending borrowed money, those days will be here again.

California has plenty of other revenue sources, including a sales tax rate near the highest in the nation, the highest gasoline tax rate, and now the highest income tax rate. We're about to get massively higher energy bills thanks to the state's new cap-and-trade system that will cost businesses and consumers billions a year and that will deliver those billions to the state treasury. The obsession that the left has over Prop 13 property taxes, the one area where the citizens have managed to escape their plundering, is insane and indicative of just how fanatical they get when they think they're losing out on a single dollar of additional money to spend.
 
2012-11-09 01:16:38 AM

TwistedFark: Three point plan to getting California heading in the right direction again:

1) Make only a simple majority instead of a super majority required to pass a budget.


Ummmm . . . we already did this. Last November, Prop 25, which passed, and applied to the budget this year for the first time. The problem is that it still requires a 2/3 majority to change taxes (and another ballot initiative that passed in the same election extended the 2/3 requirement to increases in fees as well), so only spending, and not revenue, can now be controlled by a simple majority.
 
2012-11-09 01:18:16 AM

jjorsett: Don't worry. We Californians are a forward-looking bunch.

[i48.tinypic.com image 800x534]


Arizona, really?
 
2012-11-09 01:28:24 AM

jjorsett: We're about to get massively higher energy bills thanks to the state's new cap-and-trade system that will cost businesses and consumers billions a year


If by massive you mean about a $100 a year for the average consumer then yes.
 
2012-11-09 01:29:36 AM

Fart_Machine: jjorsett: Don't worry. We Californians are a forward-looking bunch.

[i48.tinypic.com image 800x534]

Arizona, really?


Well, if I made the sign say, "Welcome to Texas", all the lefties would be going, "Yaaa, yure so stooopid! Texas ain't next to California." Abstract concepts and artistic license are lost on them.
 
2012-11-09 01:35:58 AM

Fart_Machine: jjorsett: We're about to get massively higher energy bills thanks to the state's new cap-and-trade system that will cost businesses and consumers billions a year

If by massive you mean about a $100 a year for the average consumer then yes.


You're citing direct costs (energy bills), and you're using the soothing, "this suppository won't hurt, trust us!" numbers the government is putting out. Everything that requires energy to produce, move, or sell, which is, well, everything, is going to cost more. Nobody has any real idea how much yet because they're just getting this puppy warmed up, but the number isn't going lower. Trust me like I'm the government.
 
2012-11-09 01:43:03 AM

jjorsett: California has plenty of other revenue sources, including a sales tax rate near the highest in the nation, the highest gasoline tax rate, and now the highest income tax rate.


California's income tax rate isn't the highest. It's actually the 10th highest, with an average rate of 5.8%, which is lower than even some red states such as Tennessee (6%) and North Carolina (6.92%), and much lower than its neighbor to the north, Oregon (8.56%). Yes, the gas tax is high, but it's not the highest--it's actually #3 behind NY and CT (though many others are only a few cents behind). Yes, the base state sales tax rate is the highest, but when you add in the maximum allowable local sales tax rate, several states have higher maximum rates.

If we're going to discuss this, let's at least use genuine numbers.

By the way, in total tax dollars colected per capita, California ranks 38 of 50--despite having one of the highest per capita income rates (and highest real estate values) of any state.
 
2012-11-09 01:43:34 AM

TwistedFark: Also, I want to point out - Jerry Brown is the farking man.

Unlike most gutless politicians these days, he put his balls on the line for Prop 30 and got evil death threats from Republicans and almost no backing from his own party. People were saying that he was signing his own death sentance and that the state was ungovernable.

Well guess what? The state is governable, it just needs an actual governor.

Agree with him or not, the fact is you don't see that kind of political guts hardly at all anymore. Maybe now that he has a super majority in both houses he can undo a few decades of nonsense across both parties.


This. The man does not f*ck around.
 
2012-11-09 01:43:53 AM

jjorsett: Fart_Machine: jjorsett: We're about to get massively higher energy bills thanks to the state's new cap-and-trade system that will cost businesses and consumers billions a year

If by massive you mean about a $100 a year for the average consumer then yes.

You're citing direct costs (energy bills), and you're using the soothing, "this suppository won't hurt, trust us!" numbers the government is putting out. Everything that requires energy to produce, move, or sell, which is, well, everything, is going to cost more. Nobody has any real idea how much yet because they're just getting this puppy warmed up, but the number isn't going lower. Trust me like I'm the government.


Or trust you with words like massive and billions without any real data?
 
2012-11-09 01:47:58 AM

jjorsett: Fart_Machine: jjorsett: Don't worry. We Californians are a forward-looking bunch.

[i48.tinypic.com image 800x534]

Arizona, really?

Well, if I made the sign say, "Welcome to Texas", all the lefties would be going, "Yaaa, yure so stooopid! Texas ain't next to California." Abstract concepts and artistic license are lost on them.


So where is Arizona going to get all that federal money if donor states like California lose their population?
 
2012-11-09 01:51:08 AM

Notabunny: I'm hoping for an oil extraction tax. We'll see.



And a Tobin Tax to end high frequency trading, which will bring back true price discovery in the financial markets and crush some of the most crooked and powerful Wall Street bank's balls in a vice.
 
2012-11-09 01:54:26 AM

Cyberluddite: If we're going to discuss this, let's at least use genuine numbers.


He's using unskewed, Republican numbers.
 
2012-11-09 01:54:36 AM

Cyberluddite: TwistedFark: Three point plan to getting California heading in the right direction again:

1) Make only a simple majority instead of a super majority required to pass a budget.

Ummmm . . . we already did this. Last November, Prop 25, which passed, and applied to the budget this year for the first time. The problem is that it still requires a 2/3 majority to change taxes (and another ballot initiative that passed in the same election extended the 2/3 requirement to increases in fees as well), so only spending, and not revenue, can now be controlled by a simple majority.


Well shiat, how come no one told me this when I was back home in San Diego last month??? This is the most disconcerting part of being over seas for me, I feel like I lose track of so many things :(

Still... how do they plan to deal with unfunded ballot initiatives? Can they cut them from the budget somehow with a simple majority even if it passed as a referendum?
 
2012-11-09 01:58:19 AM

jjorsett: Don't worry. We Californians are a forward-looking bunch.

[i48.tinypic.com image 800x534]


So, you're leaving?

Awesome! Good luck! Need some help moving?!?
 
2012-11-09 02:23:27 AM

TwistedFark: Still... how do they plan to deal with unfunded ballot initiatives? Can they cut them from the budget somehow with a simple majority even if it passed as a referendum?


Generally, the answer is no--most ballot initiatives (especially those implemented as amendments to the state constitution) can only be modified by another ballot initiative. And, as has been pointed out, ballot-box budgeting (in the form of unchangeable, locked-in mandates) is one of the big roadblocks to the state getting its financial house in order.
 
2012-11-09 02:29:04 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Cyberluddite: I Am The Egg Matt Drudge Smears Upon His Body: Bullshi bullshiat bullshiat.

False premise is false.

You're obvoiusly a f*cking moron, and you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about, so I'm not going to wate my time with you, any more than I'd waste my time explaining it to my dog. Go listen to Fox News some more.

He does have a point, though.


He may. But being such a colossal dick about it sorta overshadows that.
 
2012-11-09 02:46:48 AM
If they get too aggro about wanting to raise taxes, or want to spend too much money (which they will), they are going to run into a roadblock named Jerry.
Don't F with the Jerry.
 
2012-11-09 02:53:27 AM

Practical_Draconian: Californians have been leaving for the past decade because of the cost of living here.


And yet, the population has not declined significantly. It's almost as if some people moved to California.
 
2012-11-09 03:33:34 AM

GAT_00: So I'm guessing Subby would also say the new Republican supermajority here in TN is bad too, right? After all, they have enough power they can suspend the normal rules of order and do whatever the fark they want.


Tennessee can have all the personhood amendments and Citizens United billionaire buyouts and unionbusting laws and voter suppression laws and DOMA laws that you like. California's going forward without Obstructionist Republicans. And as California goes, so will go the Union. The Confederacy can screw up its own states any way it wants.
 
2012-11-09 03:44:45 AM

culebra: Your kids will meditate in school.


That is a good thing. Already happening. See: David Lynch Foundation.
 
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