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(The Daily Dolt)   Colorado governor harshes everyone's buzz: "Don't break out the Cheetos too quickly"   (thedailydolt.com) divider line 74
    More: Sad, Colorado Governor, Cheetos, Marijuana Initiative, Colorado, Debbie Downer, goldfish  
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2057 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Nov 2012 at 2:31 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-08 11:04:10 AM  
Yeah, this is the thing i never understood about these initiatives. Federal law still takes precedence, no?
 
2012-11-08 11:07:03 AM  

Politicandy: Yeah, this is the thing i never understood about these initiatives. Federal law still takes precedence, no?


The only thing we can hope is not that he doesn't have to be worried about re-election, Obama won't have to worry about the 'soft on drugs' charge, and will tell the feds to back off.
 
2012-11-08 11:12:27 AM  
The Feds aren't going to be knocking down stoners doors trying to confiscate a few joints.
 
2012-11-08 11:16:39 AM  
I heard Hostess is planning to emerge from bankruptcy
 
2012-11-08 11:27:01 AM  

BunkyBrewman: The Feds aren't going to be knocking down stoners doors trying to confiscate a few joints.


No, but they likely WILL put the kibosh on any significantly large growing operation.

Politicandy: Yeah, this is the thing i never understood about these initiatives. Federal law still takes precedence, no?


Here's the question I have on that: Are state law enforcement officers REQUIRED to enforce federal law? I don't know the answer to that, to be honest.
 
2012-11-08 11:30:04 AM  

nekom: BunkyBrewman: The Feds aren't going to be knocking down stoners doors trying to confiscate a few joints.

No, but they likely WILL put the kibosh on any significantly large growing operation.

Politicandy: Yeah, this is the thing i never understood about these initiatives. Federal law still takes precedence, no?

Here's the question I have on that: Are state law enforcement officers REQUIRED to enforce federal law? I don't know the answer to that, to be honest.


No, they don't have to enforce federal laws.
 
2012-11-08 11:32:51 AM  

dr_blasto: No, they don't have to enforce federal laws.


I wouldn't have thought so, but I recall that question coming up re: illegal aliens in the past.

So what are we going to wind up with here? A brand new federal task force whose sole purpose is to enforce marijuana prohibition in the state of Colorado? That would likely be highly unpopular.
 
2012-11-08 12:11:05 PM  

nekom: BunkyBrewman: The Feds aren't going to be knocking down stoners doors trying to confiscate a few joints.

No, but they likely WILL put the kibosh on any significantly large growing operation.


As far as I know that hasn't been legalized under CO law anyway. Only simple possession of small amounts.

Politicandy: Yeah, this is the thing i never understood about these initiatives. Federal law still takes precedence, no?

Here's the question I have on that: Are state law enforcement officers REQUIRED to enforce federal law? I don't know the answer to that, to be honest.


No. Federal and state governments have concurrent authority, each over its own laws. Federal supremacy in this case just means that feds can enforce federal law even where state law says otherwise. It does NOT require your local county sheriff to enforce federal laws.
 
2012-11-08 12:15:19 PM  

nekom: dr_blasto: No, they don't have to enforce federal laws.

I wouldn't have thought so, but I recall that question coming up re: illegal aliens in the past.

So what are we going to wind up with here? A brand new federal task force whose sole purpose is to enforce marijuana prohibition in the state of Colorado? That would likely be highly unpopular.


Probably nothing. Growing hasn't been legalized, and you aren't going to have the DEA rolling in to bust up frat parties.

And interesting and sinister tactic the feds have been enforcing in states with growing operations is using the IRS to deny them tax deductions for ordinary businesses expenses, on the theory that deductions have to be directed toward a lawful enterprise. And they are doing it retroactively, I believe, and sending growers tax bills for those deductions dating back to however long they've been around.
 
2012-11-08 12:43:20 PM  
My worry is that Flippinlooperhooptywhoopty is going to use the "It's legal but it ain't 100% legal" argument to drag his feet and not do shiat about implementing anything.

Hopefully, Fartbongo is willing to call off the DEA now that he's not facing re-election. I can only imagine the category 5 derpstorm that will ensue if/when a black man takes steps to allow Americans to legally smoke the debil weed.
 
2012-11-08 12:51:04 PM  

gilgigamesh: nekom: dr_blasto: No, they don't have to enforce federal laws.

I wouldn't have thought so, but I recall that question coming up re: illegal aliens in the past.

So what are we going to wind up with here? A brand new federal task force whose sole purpose is to enforce marijuana prohibition in the state of Colorado? That would likely be highly unpopular.

Probably nothing. Growing hasn't been legalized, and you aren't going to have the DEA rolling in to bust up frat parties.

And interesting and sinister tactic the feds have been enforcing in states with growing operations is using the IRS to deny them tax deductions for ordinary businesses expenses, on the theory that deductions have to be directed toward a lawful enterprise. And they are doing it retroactively, I believe, and sending growers tax bills for those deductions dating back to however long they've been around.


Growing or owning up to six plants as an individual is legalized by this amendment. I doubt the DEA would waste resources on that; if they do, then I have an idea of where we could score some cuts to the federal budget.

This will all be fought by the IRS for the most part. You'll likely see some minor DEA raids here and there, but the IRS penalities for ill-gotten gains from illegal sales of a controlled substance will still be the most powerful weapon in their arsenal.
 
2012-11-08 12:53:05 PM  

nekom: Here's the question I have on that: Are state law enforcement officers REQUIRED to enforce federal law? I don't know the answer to that, to be honest.



No one has to enforce any law.  Just think of those goofy laws you see all the time from hundreds of years ago like "It is illegal to gargle in public places."   I highly doubt any LA police agency enforces this.
 
Or look at speed limits.  Its illegal to go above 35 on one road near me.  Cops often don't care unless you're driving very recklessly.
 
2012-11-08 01:04:22 PM  

nekom: BunkyBrewman: The Feds aren't going to be knocking down stoners doors trying to confiscate a few joints.

No, but they likely WILL put the kibosh on any significantly large growing operation.


...which makes it difficult for Colorado (and Washington State) to really tax this stuff to any worthwhile degree. :P
 
2012-11-08 01:07:45 PM  

downstairs: No one has to enforce any law. Just think of those goofy laws you see all the time from hundreds of years ago like "It is illegal to gargle in public places." I highly doubt any LA police agency enforces this.


Well, police officers do have discretion. There's an older guy in town who must smoke the stuff CONSTANTLY, judging by the fact that every single time I walk by his house, the smell is obvious even from the street. But the police have never been there. He doesn't beat his wife, he doesn't drive under the influence, he just sits at home and smokes his weed and never bothers anyone. That's the type of person who is rarely hassled by police, because quite frankly even if someone did call the police on the count of the smell of it, I doubt that would be reason enough for them to care to investigate. I'm pretty sure that outside of snitches, most people who are arrested for possession of marijuana would be more accurately described as possessing marijuana while committing another crime, or while doing something stupid.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-08 01:13:56 PM  
For the most part, state law enforcement officials may not enforce federal criminal law.

Suppose there is a federal crime of lèse majesté. The Onion violated it with that article about a topless Joe Biden. Colorado police can not arrest Onion editors for running that article. Federal law enforcement officials can. Colorado police can also call the FBI and report a federal crime, the same as any person.

Now suppose somebody comes into town with a kilo of cocaine. That violates Colorado law. Colorado police can arrest the dealer for a state law crime. It also violates federal law. The FBI could arrest the guy on their own.

The third case is a state-only crime. If you make a left turn onto another street and cross a double yellow line in the process you may have committed a crime. The feds can't arrest you for it.
 
2012-11-08 01:43:57 PM  
When does the law go into effect? I bet there are a lot of idiots who are gonna get busted in the act of purchasing during the next few weeks because they thought laws go into effect immediately.
 
2012-11-08 01:44:52 PM  
If voters choose to legalize a drug and the first thing you can think of to mock it is "don't break out the Cheetos," it's a pretty good sign that said drug being illegal is a friggin' joke.
 
2012-11-08 01:50:08 PM  

robsul82: If voters choose to legalize a drug and the first thing you can think of to mock it is "don't break out the Cheetos," it's a pretty good sign that said drug being illegal is a friggin' joke.


You're ignoring the real and evident harm of Cheetos abuse. That innocent looking orange powder is anything but harmless.
 
2012-11-08 02:03:59 PM  

dr_blasto: This will all be fought by the IRS for the most part. You'll likely see some minor DEA raids here and there, but the IRS penalities for ill-gotten gains from illegal sales of a controlled substance will still be the most powerful weapon in their arsenal.


That, along with fear, surprise and ruthless efficiency.

/and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope
 
2012-11-08 02:25:08 PM  

robsul82: If voters choose to legalize a drug and the first thing you can think of to mock it is "don't break out the Cheetos," it's a pretty good sign that said drug being illegal is a friggin' joke.


That's a fact. If anyone thinks that marijuana is any more harmful than alcohol, they've either never smoked it, never drank or never attended a rock concert.

The potheads at concerts cause much more trouble than the drunks, said absolutely nobody ever.
 
2012-11-08 02:33:16 PM  
Well it is very cool that WA and CO did the right thing, but there's still that pesky matter of federal prohibition and Marijuana being listed in the same category as heroin...
 
2012-11-08 02:34:17 PM  
You marijuannaheads make me sick to my F*CKING stomach. Don't you know that statistically, people who smoke that funny tobacco leads to your testicles rotting off and heroin abuse? Liberal losers! Get a brain!
 
2012-11-08 02:34:24 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: I can only imagine the category 5 derpstorm that will ensue if/when a black man takes steps to allow Americans to legally smoke the debil weed.


Only if he makes jazz legal, too.
 
2012-11-08 02:34:45 PM  
isn't this the holy grail of conservative politics? States making their own decisions without having to listen to big brother? Or does that only work when you're cutting upper class taxes and oppressing minority rights?
 
2012-11-08 02:34:48 PM  

Politicandy: Yeah, this is the thing i never understood about these initiatives. Federal law still takes precedence, no?


It still de facto decriminalized MJ - while the feds can come down like a ton of bricks on legalized sales, they can't do a damn thing to make the state arrest people for possession.
 
2012-11-08 02:37:19 PM  

nekom: dr_blasto: No, they don't have to enforce federal laws.

I wouldn't have thought so, but I recall that question coming up re: illegal aliens in the past.

So what are we going to wind up with here? A brand new federal task force whose sole purpose is to enforce marijuana prohibition in the state of Colorado? That would likely be highly unpopular.


That would be the DEA, they're already there.

The thing to do is for Colorado to do is set this up intelligent. Tell the people:

1. Buy everything you need in Colorado from physical storefronts (avoid using the mail since it is federal or anything that could count as interstate commerce).
2. Sell only to people in Colorado and make them sign a form agreeing they aren't going to cross state lines with your product, like how when you buy certain servers you agree not to export them from the USA.
3. Pay your taxes so the IRS can't nail you some tax code annoyance al la Capone.

Then wait for the feds to arrest someone and have your AG sue over this. However make sure the test case you deploy don't have anything interstate or other things were the Feds trump you.
 
2012-11-08 02:39:18 PM  
We were smoking a little on a porch that we thought was nice and secluded in college once. Cop walked by, looked at us, said 'go inside'. We went inside.
/CSB
 
2012-11-08 02:42:23 PM  
Washington state appears to be full speed ahead.
 
2012-11-08 02:43:01 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Pay your taxes so the IRS can't nail you some tax code annoyance al la Capone.


This is where the Feds seem to concentrating their efforts as of late, if you run a dispensary nothing is a business expense so instead of making $200,000 a year and spending $25,000 on rent, $50,000 on Salaries, $75,000 on product and supplies leaving you $50,000 in taxable income, you will owe for $200,000 in taxable income.
 
2012-11-08 02:44:37 PM  

Martin Silenus: You marijuannaheads make me sick to my F*CKING stomach. Don't you know that statistically, people who smoke that funny tobacco leads to your testicles rotting off and heroin abuse? Liberal losers! Get a brain!


You are absolutely correct. Marijuana is the flame, heroin is the fuse and LSD is the bomb that will blow your mind.

/just the facts
 
2012-11-08 02:44:41 PM  

nekom: robsul82: If voters choose to legalize a drug and the first thing you can think of to mock it is "don't break out the Cheetos," it's a pretty good sign that said drug being illegal is a friggin' joke.

That's a fact. If anyone thinks that marijuana is any more harmful than alcohol, they've either never smoked it, never drank or never attended a rock concert.

The potheads at concerts cause much more trouble than the drunks, said absolutely nobody ever.


Bill Hicks Link 3:20 in NSFW language
 
2012-11-08 02:45:18 PM  
This man has the power to make federal enforcement of laws against marijuana a very low priority for the DEA.

i50.tinypic.com

Will he do it?
 
2012-11-08 02:45:40 PM  

mutterfark: Martin Silenus: You marijuannaheads make me sick to my F*CKING stomach. Don't you know that statistically, people who smoke that funny tobacco leads to your testicles rotting off and heroin abuse? Liberal losers! Get a brain!

You are absolutely correct. Marijuana is the flame, heroin is the fuse and LSD is the bomb that will blow your mind.

/just the facts


Stop trying to get into my head, reeferboy. I'm praying for you.
 
2012-11-08 02:45:46 PM  
We already have rampant medical marijuana in CO and doctors that will prescribe it for anybody. People share it around with their friends and have pot parties. There are also a lot of stupid criminals trying to break into the dispensaries at night. What is the DEA doing about that?

incidentally, our local lefty indie paper is going gangbusters now. It's expanded and the back half is dominated by medical marijuana ads and news. This free paper is doing a lot better than the local conservative rag you have to pay for.
 
2012-11-08 02:48:18 PM  
Here is how things will work in Colorado...

It will take til Jan. 6th for the vote to be certified and Amendment 64 to become part of the Colorado state constitution. At that point, adults 21 and over may grow six plants and possess up to one oz. There is no chance the feds are gonna step in at the point. It will take until January 2014 for any retail sales to happen via the Amendments retail sales section. THIS is when the Feds might/will step in.

Basically, on Jan. 6th it will be legal for everyone over 21, but it will be at least another year before retail sales happen, if they do. I believe the Feds will leave low volume growers and those in possession alone, but buying joints at a legal, retail pot shop is probably gonna bring Federal enforcement.
 
2012-11-08 02:49:42 PM  

nekom: The potheads at concerts cause much more trouble than the drunks, said absolutely nobody ever.


The only issue I have ever had with a pothead at a concert was Pink Floyd Division Bell Tour 1994, he kept asking me if I saw the Round Screen in the middle of the field. He just wouldn't shut up about the round screen, even after I told him he was harshing my buzz.

/He was probably just as annoying not stoned but just maybe he had a filter.
 
2012-11-08 02:50:02 PM  

Egalitarian: What is the DEA doing about that?


Link
 
2012-11-08 02:50:48 PM  

moefuggenbrew: We were smoking a little on a porch that we thought was nice and secluded in college once. Cop walked by, looked at us, said 'go inside'. We went inside.
/CSB


Heh that reminds me of a time in college when we were in this shiatty sculpting class where we had to build "functional art". My friend decides to make a hammock, and this was the crappiest thing I've ever seen. Well he had to hang it up in the front yard and take a picture sitting in it for the "functional" part. We ended up getting stoned and forgetting it out there.

About a week later there's a knock on the door, and our next door neighbor (old guy, probably late 60s) asks me to come over. I'm high as a kite and kinda freaking out, but went anyway since my roommates knew where I was going. I'm walking through his house following him, and I'm seeing plaques and pictures of him in a police uniform. Now I'm really freaking out. He walks to the backyard, opens up this case, and pulls out a fully loaded pipe with some stroooong bud in it. He takes a puff and hands it to me. I give him this weird look and he says "Don't worry, I retired about 5 years ago."

Well we ended up talking for a few minutes and he says "Now that I made a peace offering, can you do something for me?" I said sure, what is it? He goes "Can you please get that stupid piece of shiat y'all have hanging in your tree? It just looks awful." I laughed and said no problem. We toked with him a few times after that too.

/CSB
 
2012-11-08 02:51:18 PM  
I wonder which small town in Colorado with fading economic prospects will decide to become the Pot Tourism capital of the US first. And there's a LOT of old mining towns throughout the state that are trying to get tourism dollars to save the day.

Could be risky for all the reasons mentioned in this thread. But if it's a question of your town dying... somewhere will give it a shot.
 
2012-11-08 02:52:23 PM  

Politicandy: Yeah, this is the thing i never understood about these initiatives. Federal law still takes precedence, no?


If the local and state police don't arrest you for you and don't enforce it, then the Feds enforcement efforts are SEVERELY hampered.
 
2012-11-08 02:53:44 PM  

Renowned transvestite sexologist: Politicandy: Yeah, this is the thing i never understood about these initiatives. Federal law still takes precedence, no?

If the local and state police don't arrest you for you and don't enforce it, then the Feds enforcement efforts are SEVERELY hampered.


de facto nullification
 
2012-11-08 02:55:33 PM  
ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2012-11-08 02:56:32 PM  

Tom_Slick: ha-ha-guy: Pay your taxes so the IRS can't nail you some tax code annoyance al la Capone.

This is where the Feds seem to concentrating their efforts as of late, if you run a dispensary nothing is a business expense so instead of making $200,000 a year and spending $25,000 on rent, $50,000 on Salaries, $75,000 on product and supplies leaving you $50,000 in taxable income, you will owe for $200,000 in taxable income.


The theme I'm starting to see is the dispensary is always in the red. However the owner also owns a Party Store, Quik-E-Mart, or something in that vein and the latter is absurdly profitable. So the local guys get their taxes off the pot profit via the owner declaring them as Qik-E-Mart profit. However he income comes in via a method were you can deduct legit tax expenses. It's fraud, but the local and state governments look the other way since they still get the taxes and the IRS is unlikely to come out to North Buttfarkistan, Michigan to trace the actual revenue flow of the gas station and the weed place. The county treasurer could likely easily do it, but he knows whats going on and as long as the owner pays a fair share, the treasurer cashes the check and looks the other way.
 
2012-11-08 02:57:05 PM  
http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20121107/NEWS01/311070054/We-just-le galized-pot-Now-what-?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

"Will local police enforce federal law against people possessing marijuana?

No. Larimer County Sheriff Justin Smith, who opposed Amendment 64, said local agencies wouldn't be able to go after marijuana users in compliance with state law.

"We're not federal agents," he said. "We can arrest people if they're wanted on warrants on federal crimes, but unless we're involved in a specific case ... where (a deputy is) cross-commissioned as a federal agent, we don't directly enforce federal law."


FYI on local enforcement.
 
2012-11-08 03:00:49 PM  

Martin Silenus: mutterfark: Martin Silenus: You marijuannaheads make me sick to my F*CKING stomach. Don't you know that statistically, people who smoke that funny tobacco leads to your testicles rotting off and heroin abuse? Liberal losers! Get a brain!

You are absolutely correct. Marijuana is the flame, heroin is the fuse and LSD is the bomb that will blow your mind.

/just the facts

Stop trying to get into my head, reeferboy. I'm praying for you.


Genesis 1:29? Amen!
 
2012-11-08 03:04:30 PM  

jigger: Egalitarian: What is the DEA doing about that?

Link


The story is from Aug 14, 2009

Disingenuous, much?
 
2012-11-08 03:04:50 PM  

Egalitarian: We already have rampant medical marijuana in CO and doctors that will prescribe it for anybody. People share it around with their friends and have pot parties. There are also a lot of stupid criminals trying to break into the dispensaries at night. What is the DEA doing about that?

incidentally, our local lefty indie paper is going gangbusters now. It's expanded and the back half is dominated by medical marijuana ads and news. This free paper is doing a lot better than the local conservative rag you have to pay for.


It has been interesting to watch the industry go crazy. I expected all the ads for dispensaries and hydroponics suppliers, but was totally surprised at the number of ads by attorneys selling themselves to growing and dispensing operations.
 
2012-11-08 03:05:31 PM  

Dinki: Obama won't have to worry about the 'soft on drugs' charge, and will tell the feds to back off.


He told them that a long time ago. The DEA basically said they would enforce the law as they saw it.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-08 03:05:37 PM  
Great_Milenko

There is substantial support among conservatives for treating this as a states' rights issue. "Red" state attorneys general supported California's medical marijuana law when the Supreme Court heard Gonazles v. Raich. People who seek national office are more likely to want the federal government to make laws than not make laws, so it's unlikely that this will become a state issue in the near future. I think it's more likely that you will see Congress force medical marijuana on states than allow states to choose for themselves. More likely than either the federal ban will remain.
 
2012-11-08 03:08:59 PM  

ZAZ: Great_Milenko

There is substantial support among conservatives for treating this as a states' rights issue. "Red" state attorneys general supported California's medical marijuana law when the Supreme Court heard Gonazles v. Raich. People who seek national office are more likely to want the federal government to make laws than not make laws, so it's unlikely that this will become a state issue in the near future. I think it's more likely that you will see Congress force medical marijuana on states than allow states to choose for themselves. More likely than either the federal ban will remain.


Yup, our local libertarian sheriff has on a few occasions told the DEA to pound sand when they came nosing around the dispensaries. The DEA has pretty much backed out of operating in this area due to hostility from local LEO. However as was said up thread, now they sic the IRS on you or threaten your creditors. A lot of the small mom and pop shops that can fly below the level the IRS watches though have been running unmolested for years.

I saw a fun LEO conference where the liberal Ann Arbor Police Chief was swapping "How to tell the DEA to go fark themselves" stories with two far right lib sheriffs.

/they agreed on practically nothing else
 
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