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(NPR)   Kids these days are too lazy to download music illegally like in the old days   (npr.org ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Kids These Days, music download, Morning Edition, audio file format, online music, legal services  
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5237 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 08 Nov 2012 at 11:59 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



59 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2012-11-08 10:03:21 AM  
I believe that throughout all of the OMG PIRATEZ discussion, the argument has been "when it is easier to get it legally than to download it illegally, people will pay."
 
2012-11-08 10:12:07 AM  
Once amazon.com made it so easy to buy songs legitimately without the rigor morale of pirating, the writing was on the wall. I can go to amazon, press the button and within a minute I have the full album for about $5-8 total, or I can buy a song for 25 cents to 99 cents.
 
2012-11-08 10:38:15 AM  
Basically already said above, but, yeah, the whole "pirating music" thing was (A) not as widespread as the music industry wanted you to believe (at least in comparison to how many people use Itunes and other online music purchasing avenues now) and (B) because people wanted convenience, not necessarily to screw the artists out of money.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2012-11-08 11:13:52 AM  
The artists intended me to have the whole work, not a burned CD. I'll buy the album outright, thanks, but I can understand why people go the download route.
 
2012-11-08 12:04:08 PM  
This is good news. Thievery and criminal behavior on the decline always makes me happy.
 
2012-11-08 12:06:09 PM  
Picture caption FTFA: "Drake, who had the top torrent downloaded in the U.S. in the first half of 2012"

...
.....
........
WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?!
Does modern music suck THIS much?

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-08 12:06:23 PM  
Piracy will never go away as long as outfits like Spotify continue to not be as good as they should

A working shuffle would be a nice start
 
2012-11-08 12:08:51 PM  
My College had an intra-network file sharing system. It was farking incredible, and untraceable.
 
2012-11-08 12:10:46 PM  
I have an Amazon credit card so I have loads of points to buy music with. I was going to save my points for a Canon T something another but I realized it would be just another waste of money. Music I might actually use more than a few times.
 
2012-11-08 12:14:44 PM  
And there may be one other reason that unauthorized downloading has declined: People don't need to download anymore when they can just click on YouTube and hear their favorite song for free anytime they want.

Had a discussion with my friend about this, who is very very anti-piracy. I posited that so long as you aren't trying to make money off of it, downloading MP3s is like holding up a tape recorder to the radio while your favorite song is on (which isn't illegal) with better sound quality. He maintained that no matter what, obtaining a copy of a song you didn't pay for is stealing. The youtube aspect just makes things hazier, especially since with about 3 clicks, you can extract the audio from any youtube video at 256kbps.

Thoughts?
 
2012-11-08 12:16:47 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: Once amazon.com made it so easy to buy songs legitimately without the rigor morale rigamarole of pirating, the writing was on the wall. .


Fixed that for me.
 
2012-11-08 12:31:21 PM  
Well, I think alot more piracy traffic than people think is old guys sharing obscure 70's Italian prog,Japanese psych, Musique Concrete,classical,old jazz and blues etc that was never really available anywhere outside of the used record bins in major cities or thru mail order (or that the labels have reissued so many times there's a huge used glut , i.e. Miles Davis etc). Obviously those kinds of collectors/archivists/hoarders aren't a problem, because 99% of the time they would be buying used or trading not to mention they probably still buy far more music than average. So just giving teens/stupid people an easy,cheap way to download the chart hits will fix the vast majority of "leakage" the majors experience.
 
2012-11-08 12:31:33 PM  

EMCGuy: HST's Dead Carcass: Once amazon.com made it so easy to buy songs legitimately without the rigor morale rigamarole of pirating, the writing was on the wall. .

Fixed that for me.


I liked "stiff spirit or belief" better.
 
2012-11-08 12:35:12 PM  

grinding_journalist: Had a discussion with my friend about this, who is very very anti-piracy. I posited that so long as you aren't trying to make money off of it, downloading MP3s is like holding up a tape recorder to the radio while your favorite song is on (which isn't illegal) with better sound quality. He maintained that no matter what, obtaining a copy of a song you didn't pay for is stealing. The youtube aspect just makes things hazier, especially since with about 3 clicks, you can extract the audio from any youtube video at 256kbps.

Thoughts?


Since you asked:

"Better sound quality" than what's on the radio is something you should probably pay for. Just like movies playing on network t.v. -- you can record them for free, with commercials and t.v. edits, but if you want the unedited, non-commercial-interrupted version, you should go buy the DVD.

But really, arguing about crap like this is never going to convince anybody of anything. If you want stuff for free, you're going to take it and find a way to justify it. If you think people should pay for the things that they want, none of the arguments that people make about "illeagal" downloading is going to convince you.
 
2012-11-08 12:37:44 PM  

unlikely: I believe that throughout all of the OMG PIRATEZ discussion, the argument has been "when it is easier to get it legally than to download it illegally, people will pay."


hell it was that way 10 years ago when itunes first came out

the reality is there will always be those that have the time and energy to pirate stuff, and then there's everybody else
 
2012-11-08 12:38:48 PM  

grinding_journalist: The youtube aspect just makes things hazier


I have a few cheap-o friends who never buy/download music, they simply just add individual clips and playlists to their favourites list on YouTube. Whenever they want to hear music, or put out a playlist for a party, they just go to YouTube, edit together a list, and let it role like it's a CD.
 
2012-11-08 12:38:48 PM  

grinding_journalist: And there may be one other reason that unauthorized downloading has declined: People don't need to download anymore when they can just click on YouTube and hear their favorite song for free anytime they want.

Had a discussion with my friend about this, who is very very anti-piracy. I posited that so long as you aren't trying to make money off of it, downloading MP3s is like holding up a tape recorder to the radio while your favorite song is on (which isn't illegal) with better sound quality. He maintained that no matter what, obtaining a copy of a song you didn't pay for is stealing. The youtube aspect just makes things hazier, especially since with about 3 clicks, you can extract the audio from any youtube video at 256kbps.

Thoughts?


Since youtube doesn't expressly allow recording of their content, you could be violating DMCA by working around their protections.

Sony made holding the shift key as you turn your computer on, illegal.
 
2012-11-08 12:38:52 PM  
This is the inudstry where the easiest surefire way to make money is to make sure you're not one of the suckers actually making the music? Yeah, it's totally the fault of piracy!!!
 
2012-11-08 12:39:57 PM  

grinding_journalist: And there may be one other reason that unauthorized downloading has declined: People don't need to download anymore when they can just click on YouTube and hear their favorite song for free anytime they want.

Had a discussion with my friend about this, who is very very anti-piracy. I posited that so long as you aren't trying to make money off of it, downloading MP3s is like holding up a tape recorder to the radio while your favorite song is on (which isn't illegal) with better sound quality. He maintained that no matter what, obtaining a copy of a song you didn't pay for is stealing. The youtube aspect just makes things hazier, especially since with about 3 clicks, you can extract the audio from any youtube video at 256kbps.

Thoughts?


I tend to agree with you; after all, videos on youtube are paid for with advertising. In theory, videos in violation of copyright are taken down. I'll grant that I look for clips of copyrighted material when I just need to watch a scene or clip of a cartoon or movie, and I'm sure that most of them aren't exactly licensed.

Still, copyright holders now have more tools at their disposal than they had before. They couldn't make a record self-destruct after one play, they couldn't determine how many people were in the room when you played it. Now they have the tools to prohibit what has always been prohibited, it's just that there wasn't a practical way to stop you. In the meantime, customers got used to the vague areas of the law. How many friends watching a movie at home constitutes fair use? We had a thread yesterday about kinect potentially being used to determine how many people are in the room, and then charging viewing fees accordingly.

The good news is, as the OP mentioned, is that if there are superior legal options, customers will respond to them. Of course there are people that want the sum total of human entertainment for free, but those people aren't so worrisome as the companies thought.
 
2012-11-08 12:46:03 PM  
I am on youtube constantly and have about 20 playlists of songs. but usually I will end up buying songs because I will want to hear the song somewhere else besides when I am sitting at a computer.

I don't think listening to youtube is as bad as pirating music...but I don't know. I just think of it has a radio station. And many many bands get exposure solely because of youtube...most bands aren't playing what the radio wants to sell...so they would never get played.

This way people can hear them, and them maybe go to a show or buy a song or the album. Seems like a good thing for fans and musicians.
 
2012-11-08 12:47:29 PM  

grinding_journalist: And there may be one other reason that unauthorized downloading has declined: People don't need to download anymore when they can just click on YouTube and hear their favorite song for free anytime they want.

Had a discussion with my friend about this, who is very very anti-piracy. I posited that so long as you aren't trying to make money off of it, downloading MP3s is like holding up a tape recorder to the radio while your favorite song is on (which isn't illegal) with better sound quality. He maintained that no matter what, obtaining a copy of a song you didn't pay for is stealing. The youtube aspect just makes things hazier, especially since with about 3 clicks, you can extract the audio from any youtube video at 256kbps.

Thoughts?


well how you get a product determines what that product is in the first place

ie: a music video isn't a song in the same way a tv show isn't a song or a video game isn't a song

a tape recording of a radio song isn't a straight-rip either, so who cares

downloading old software like roms doesn't really matter to me either, there have even been modders who took old games and improved them or made them practically into whole new games - that stuff is awesome

and products that can't be purchased anymore isn't a problem for me either

it's when somebody has clear intent to own something and downloads it anyways - whether it's a song or a piece of software - that's piracy, doing it day and date of release is just ridiculous too, and even worse are those indie game bundles where you pay what you want and people still pirate... at least pay and pirate, good grief man
 
2012-11-08 12:48:45 PM  

drewogatory: Well, I think alot more piracy traffic than people think is old guys sharing obscure 70's Italian prog,Japanese psych, Musique Concrete,classical,old jazz and blues etc that was never really available anywhere outside of the used record bins in major cities or thru mail order (or that the labels have reissued so many times there's a huge used glut , i.e. Miles Davis etc). Obviously those kinds of collectors/archivists/hoarders aren't a problem, because 99% of the time they would be buying used or trading not to mention they probably still buy far more music than average. So just giving teens/stupid people an easy,cheap way to download the chart hits will fix the vast majority of "leakage" the majors experience.


The vast majority of things that I (potentially might have) downloaded back in the day were things that were not ever going to be rereleased.Of course, that's a chicken/egg problem because what limited demand there might be is curtailed by downloaders.
 
2012-11-08 12:53:24 PM  

Nick Spiceyweiner: People aren't downloading as much because new music right now sucks. End of story.


facepalm.jpg

that's your fault and your fault alone if you can't find new music you like. don't blame the artists.
 
2012-11-08 12:56:45 PM  

Nick Spiceyweiner: Also, nobody cares if you think they shouldn't be downloading, go back to church and STFU.


watch out, we got a badass over here.
 
2012-11-08 01:00:40 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: rigor morale


I like this new spelling better than the real spelling. It gives the word a bizarrely fitting meaning.

/rigmarole
//please stop trusting spellcheck
 
2012-11-08 01:07:32 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Piracy will never go away as long as outfits like Spotify continue to not be as good as they should


www.allaccess.com
 
2012-11-08 01:17:30 PM  

Fano: drewogatory: Well, I think alot more piracy traffic than people think is old guys sharing obscure 70's Italian prog,Japanese psych, Musique Concrete,classical,old jazz and blues etc that was never really available anywhere outside of the used record bins in major cities or thru mail order (or that the labels have reissued so many times there's a huge used glut , i.e. Miles Davis etc). Obviously those kinds of collectors/archivists/hoarders aren't a problem, because 99% of the time they would be buying used or trading not to mention they probably still buy far more music than average. So just giving teens/stupid people an easy,cheap way to download the chart hits will fix the vast majority of "leakage" the majors experience.

The vast majority of things that I (potentially might have) downloaded back in the day were things that were not ever going to be rereleased.Of course, that's a chicken/egg problem because what limited demand there might be is curtailed by downloaders.


Also anytime stuff like that IS rereleased, often they fark with it to the point it's barely the same album anymore anyway. I'd rather be patient and keep combing through the used bins than grab some ill thought out, poorly remastered reissue that's stuffed with shiat b-sides,alternate takes etc. It's just like in the 70's when they started reprocessing all the awesome sounding mono originals into fake stereo and stamping them out of the thinnest,cheapest vinyl they could find and eliminating anything that resembled a gatefold.
 
2012-11-08 01:20:26 PM  

thecpt: My College had an intra-network file sharing system. It was farking incredible, and untraceable.


When I was in college 30 years ago we just made cassette copies of other people's albums. My collection gathered this way never got bigger than 30-40 tapes but I know people that acquired huge collections that way. The record companies whined about it and got a percentage of blank tape sales as compensation. This set a bad precedent since it was such easy money for them at the time that they've been hoping for another handout ever since.
 
2012-11-08 01:25:00 PM  
www.aylabrown.comupload.wikimedia.org screenshots.en.sftcdn.netwww.prepressure.com www.emotionalmachines.org 

Not like I would ever do that ;-)
 
2012-11-08 01:27:47 PM  

busy chillin': Nick Spiceyweiner: People aren't downloading as much because new music right now sucks. End of story.

facepalm.jpg

that's your fault and your fault alone if you can't find new music you like. don't blame the artists.


As a guy who squarely doesn't like new music - my process is this.
Hear something somewhere that really perks my ears up, maybe on youtube from following a 'related' link, look into getting a greatest hits or a band's "main album" next time I'm in the shop, or looking up a bunch of tracks on youtube.
If I dig it, download entire discography
If I dig THAT, look for some of the better albums at my local record store every 6 months or so.

Prime example: Mott the Hoople. I bought Mott. I bought Hoople. I don't particularly feel bad about not hunting down a copy of Mad Shadows. Another example: UFO. Downloaded the discography. Bought the box set of Chrysalis Years. Don't feel particularly bad for not hunting down a copy of Flying on its own, even tho I really enjoy it on my playlist.

For me, there's seriously no "oh, I'll just hear it on the radio" option for the music I like, and there isn't a "my friend can toss me a mix tape or play me a disc" either. I don't feel it's a big moral imperative to blind-buy 40 year old albums when I'm STILL giving my local shop cash for them on occasion after downloading. And for new albums from the few bands I was checking out, Darkness, Rush, I did buy them blind, yeah, because it... actually mattered to them. Mountain ain't gonna make more music based on my purchase history. It really just serves to keep a kid employed at Record and Tape Traders.
 
2012-11-08 01:41:35 PM  

evilmrsock: busy chillin': Nick Spiceyweiner: People aren't downloading as much because new music right now sucks. End of story.

facepalm.jpg

that's your fault and your fault alone if you can't find new music you like. don't blame the artists.

As a guy who squarely doesn't like new music - my process is this.

*Snip process.*



I can't stand new Top 40. It is hideous. But there are always new artists coming out with new stuff that I do like. It just isn't going to be on the radio.

My process.

1. Find good live music venues that play original acts. (Fortunately in Seattle, that is easy.)
2. Go there a lot. Have fun. If I like what is on the stage, go buy their CD which is on sale in the venue.
3. At home, find that artist on Spotify or Last.fm or one of the other dozens of free internet music services.
4. Follow the "You might also like..." feature that all of the aforementioned services provide.

Repeat as necessary.

I've found Zoe Muth (opening for Joe Pug), Ben Gilmer (opening for Justin Townes Earle) and a bunch of other great up and comers this way. I've also found a bunch of other "You'll cut two albums and go back to waiting tables" acts, too, but they're still pretty good.

/ But you've probably never heard of them....
// Hits self in face
 
2012-11-08 01:47:41 PM  
Buying songs legally can be easier and less time consuming than pirating.

When you pirate material you have to deal with bad quality, mislabeled/mistagged songs, missing album art, little stuff like that. It seems a fair trade of a quarter for a song where I know the quality of the product is where I want it to be.
 
2012-11-08 01:52:16 PM  
"Chang thinks people are making party play lists with the tracks."

Mao's Mad Revolution Mashup, and so on?
 
2012-11-08 01:58:07 PM  
Call me old fashioned, but I still stream-rip like a mofo. It's completely safe and fun. I find a new station, let it rip for a week and open a folder with thousands of songs. I pick the ones I want, trim them up and add them to my library.
 
2012-11-08 02:01:20 PM  
Bottom line: DRM is working. Suck it, pirates!
 
2012-11-08 02:03:20 PM  
I get 90% of my new music from bandcamp.com these days. I get to hear it before I buy it, and I don't overpay for anything. A lot of it comes with album art and liner notes, too.

Best of all, I get to dodge the ugly world of marketing teams selling derivative pop garbage and manufactured personalities.

My most recent purchase was the album Genesis Frog. Worth it!
 
2012-11-08 02:06:52 PM  
download1.downloadhelper.net 

Video. Download. Helper.
 
2012-11-08 02:19:07 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: Once amazon.com made it so easy to buy songs legitimately without the rigor morale of pirating, the writing was on the wall. I can go to amazon, press the button and within a minute I have the full album for about $5-8 total, or I can buy a song for 25 cents to 99 cents.


Why would you do that when there are non-torrent sites with a selection that is arguably as good, an interface that is definitely better, with clean, high-quality music in ANY format you request, and prices that are 1/10 as much as what you just quoted?

/or so I've heard
 
2012-11-08 02:45:18 PM  

Rent Party: evilmrsock: busy chillin': Nick Spiceyweiner: People aren't downloading as much because new music right now sucks. End of story.

facepalm.jpg

that's your fault and your fault alone if you can't find new music you like. don't blame the artists.

As a guy who squarely doesn't like new music - my process is this.

*Snip process.*

I can't stand new Top 40. It is hideous. But there are always new artists coming out with new stuff that I do like. It just isn't going to be on the radio.

My process.

1. Find good live music venues that play original acts. (Fortunately in Seattle, that is easy.)
2. Go there a lot. Have fun. If I like what is on the stage, go buy their CD which is on sale in the venue.
3. At home, find that artist on Spotify or Last.fm or one of the other dozens of free internet music services.
4. Follow the "You might also like..." feature that all of the aforementioned services provide.

Repeat as necessary.

I've found Zoe Muth (opening for Joe Pug), Ben Gilmer (opening for Justin Townes Earle) and a bunch of other great up and comers this way. I've also found a bunch of other "You'll cut two albums and go back to waiting tables" acts, too, but they're still pretty good.

/ But you've probably never heard of them....
// Hits self in face


That is all fine and well but there seems to be a stagnation of good new music (in Britain anyway). Normally a new hip band would come along and they would be a nationally known band, one everyone knew, they would get played at every party, every pub, every club but there has been so much pop style music coming through it hasn't really happened.

Two examples of this: The Olympics, the biggest bands were older bands and even the new stuff was five year old arctic monkeys. Festival line-ups have been featuring more older artists on reunion tours like Pulp, Stone Roses and more pop like Beyonce.

So new music might not be dying in terms of creation but there is always the satisfaction of going out and hearing good music that everyone knows and likes. Lately it seems that kind of music is stagnant and it is the same stuff as five years ago.
 
2012-11-08 02:47:52 PM  

evilmrsock:

For me, there's seriously no "oh, I'll just hear it on the radio" option for the music I like, and there isn't a "my friend can toss me a mix tape or play me a disc" either.


Yeah, I don't listen to the radio either. It is just a passion of mine so I click related links in youtube or follow a farkers link or see what others have bought and check those artists out as well. A few songs I like do end up being played on the radio, but overall, the radio doesn't have the same taste as me.

And I am way to into music to let some program director dictate what I have to listen to and any particular time.
 
2012-11-08 03:45:09 PM  
SABnzbd is great.
 
2012-11-08 04:15:25 PM  

grinding_journalist: And there may be one other reason that unauthorized downloading has declined: People don't need to download anymore when they can just click on YouTube and hear their favorite song for free anytime they want.

Had a discussion with my friend about this, who is very very anti-piracy. I posited that so long as you aren't trying to make money off of it, downloading MP3s is like holding up a tape recorder to the radio while your favorite song is on (which isn't illegal) with better sound quality. He maintained that no matter what, obtaining a copy of a song you didn't pay for is stealing. The youtube aspect just makes things hazier, especially since with about 3 clicks, you can extract the audio from any youtube video at 256kbps.

Thoughts?


Downloading? Perhaps. Uploading? No.
 
2012-11-08 04:20:48 PM  

busy chillin': Nick Spiceyweiner: People aren't downloading as much because new music right now sucks. End of story.

facepalm.jpg

that's your fault and your fault alone if you can't find new music you like. don't blame the artists.


How is that possible?? I've never heard of any of the *good* bands...
 
2012-11-08 04:30:34 PM  

Macular Degenerate: [www.aylabrown.com image 100x100][upload.wikimedia.org image 55x50] [screenshots.en.sftcdn.net image 100x100][www.prepressure.com image 50x50] [www.emotionalmachines.org image 90x100] 

Not like I would ever do that ;-)


I knew I recognized that icon from somewhere.

Here's another scenario to debate:

I play Rock Band religiously, and as such, have purchased and downloaded a couple hundred extra tracks to use within the game. I've discovered that with a little bit of jury rigging via my stereo, I can digital out from my Xbox to my computer, where using an audio capture utility, I can extract vocal-less audio tracks to use at a karaoke bar I frequent. I'm not selling the tracks, nobody else at the bar uses them, and I've already paid for the tracks in the first place. I'm certain that this doesn't constitute "fair use", but I really don't feel bad about it since I've paid for them in the first place, and no money is changing hands over their use.

/they're way better quality (mp3 over midi) than the ones on karaoke version
 
2012-11-08 04:45:09 PM  

WhippingBoy: busy chillin': Nick Spiceyweiner: People aren't downloading as much because new music right now sucks. End of story.

facepalm.jpg

that's your fault and your fault alone if you can't find new music you like. don't blame the artists.

How is that possible?? I've never heard of any of the *good* bands...


I think you are being funny, but just in case:

You have to be open minded and not afraid to listen to crap to find the good stuff

Click around youtube. Click songs from bands you have never heard of or about and listen

I go to iTunes and listen to almost every album that gets released. Song previews are easy. At least for me, I can tell within about 5 seconds if it has potential or not for me to like it

It takes time but it is a hobby and a passion that I seriously enjoy. You will hear an unbelievable amount of crap, but when you find a new band or song, to me, it is worth it.

You know how some guys care about sports and the players and the teams and stats? I'm like that with music.

but if you were being funny...there are no *good* bands. All music sucks. ; )

Cheers!
 
2012-11-08 04:52:19 PM  
and one more thing.

Good is subjective. Who cares if people think it is good or cool or trendy or whatever. If you like it, like it.

Own it.

That took me a few years to cultivate, but now at 36, it comes easy. They're my ears. But I am not a snob, if you love Nickleback and Lady Gaga and that stuff gets you fired up and happy and all that, then rock that stuff. I don't judge. Music is personal. I have my opinions and love it when I see ear to ear with people, but whatever. Music isn't a competition.

Sh*t, my favorite band sucks.
 
2012-11-08 05:03:32 PM  
This is why I have a bandcamp page where I give away everything I record for free with a donate if you want option. I find that 1 in 10 people who stream my tracks download, and of those that download 1 in 10 pay me something for it. That money goes directly to me with no middle man minus a small percentage for bandcamp. It's a win win for everyone except the recording industry. Why should I create content only to beg some rich guy in an office to sell if for me while he throws me a few pennies for every $15 he makes? Sure, I don't have a marketing team to make me look cool for all the kids, but my music gets disseminated to the people that are interested and thats all I really care about

/music is a hobby, it doesn't pay the bills
//you wouldn't like it anyway
 
2012-11-08 05:08:28 PM  

ModernPrimitive01:
//you wouldn't like it anyway


Let me see about that...clicks link.

only 1:25 in
 
2012-11-08 05:18:05 PM  

Faddy:
That is all fine and well but there seems to be a stagnation of good new music (in Britain anyway).


WRT Britain, my 13 year old daughter would tell you One Direction is the greatest thing EVAR!!! I file them under "Awful top 40" myself, but then again, I'm not a 13 year old girl.

On the other hand, I am in love with Mumford and Sons and The Frames (not new, but good. And also Irish and not U2).
 
2012-11-08 05:18:56 PM  

ModernPrimitive01:
//you wouldn't like it anyway


well, yeah, okay you were right...but seriously don't let my view change anything....I don't listen to much (read almost none, maybe Agalloch once a month or something) black metal, but some farkers do, so take it with a grain of salt.

Good luck for sure, though.
 
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