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(Politico)   "Hey Boehner, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" "I think so, Mitch, but if we lost all these seats, should we still try and push unpopular measures?" "No you dunce, we're gonna TRY TO TAKE OVER THE CONGRESS"   (politico.com) divider line 65
    More: Interesting, Eric Bolling, young voters, Old Dominion, big tent, electoral colleges, swing states, RNC, voter ID  
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4655 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Nov 2012 at 2:36 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-08 07:48:33 AM  
They're Dinky, They're Dinky and the Brain Drain Drain Drain Drain *do do do dooo do!* NARF!!
 
2012-11-08 08:17:48 AM  
Rubio individually as the party's promising actors on immigration.

Funny, considering that when a copy of what Rubio was calling for came up for a vote, he didn't hesitate to vote against it.
 
2012-11-08 08:30:42 AM  
Impossible.

Neither of them is the brainl
 
2012-11-08 08:48:58 AM  

GAT_00: Rubio individually as the party's promising actors on immigration.

Funny, considering that when a copy of what Rubio was calling for came up for a vote, he didn't hesitate to vote against it.


Which Mitt Romney opposed, supported, and then opposed again.
 
2012-11-08 10:55:36 AM  
At this point, I'm betting their main chance is recruiting a cell of nutjob senior Marines and opening fire on the Senate chamber.
 
2012-11-08 11:59:51 AM  
Best line in the article is the last line:

"The conservative media bubble is totally self-defeating for us. It denies us any realistic view of the real world of the general election, assuming instead that all politics is simply an extension of the Republican primary. It blindly drives us off one cliff after another," said Republican presidential strategist Mike Murphy. "We will not win the real world of big-turnout, presidential-year politics until our bubble realizes that a big world exists outside the precincts of the Republican primary."

"Said Murphy: "Much of the conservative media bubble, with its isolation, denial and semi-paranoia, only incentivized us to lose general elections.""

So very true. Until fox news can tell the base the truth about why they lost- because GOP policies aren't inline with a majority of voters- the GOP won't be able to correctly reassess and move on from their losses.
 
2012-11-08 12:38:41 PM  

OceanVortex: So very true. Until fox news can tell the base the truth about why they lost- because GOP policies aren't inline with a majority of voters- the GOP won't be able to correctly reassess and move on from their losses.


That would be like Fox News telling it's viewers, "Hey, we farking lie to you. So stop watching us."

Unless they plan to change their formatting.
 
2012-11-08 12:40:26 PM  
Here's one obvious problem:

To get past that obstacle, Jankowski said Republicans need "the immigration debate ... to be addressed and settled in a way the Republican Party can live with."

The typical Republican answer "Let's make things work the way we want it" rather than "Gee, maybe we need to modify ourselves to match what the people want".
 
2012-11-08 12:49:45 PM  
It's Boehner and the Mitch
Boehner and the Mitch
One is a moron
The other's a biatch
 
2012-11-08 12:58:32 PM  

Hershey Highway Patrol: Here's one obvious problem:

To get past that obstacle, Jankowski said Republicans need "the immigration debate ... to be addressed and settled in a way the Republican Party can live with."

The typical Republican answer "Let's make things work the way we want it" rather than "Gee, maybe we need to modify ourselves to match what the people want".


Yes, but on the other side of the coin, it's like the king who saw all his subjects walking down a road, heading somewhere. He said to himself, "There go my people. I must find out where they're going so I can lead them."

It's one thing to do some soul-searching and see if maybe--just maybe--the planks in your platform need re-shellacking (or outright replacing). It's another thing to take a stance on an issue because it's popular. Things like supply-side do work...but not in extremes. Free-market works, but not if you let it run rampant all over the consumers, the public, and the country in general. Moderation is the key.

The funny thing about economic policy is there's no real way of knowing it will work until you implement it. Keynsian economics have worked so far, but is there a point where it doesn't work as well as it once did? Kind of like how the laws of physics morph a bit between the macroscopic world and the quantum world. But in economics, these "laws" are considerably more vague and nebulous. So, you have to keep re-evaluating your positions.

Easier said than done, I guess.

The GOP's problem has been that they were SO INVESTED in their ideology that few of them in their party ever even bothered to consider that there was even the slightest chance that they were wrong. And so, they fell on their faces this time around (but not SO bad that they lost the House).

I'm done talking out of my ass for now.
 
2012-11-08 12:58:45 PM  

GAT_00: Rubio individually as the party's promising actors on immigration.

Funny, considering that when a copy of what Rubio was calling for came up for a vote, he didn't hesitate to vote against it.


All through this campaign, and *very* notably at the GOP Convention, Rubio has been notably reluctant to say anything about immigration. It's like he just gets "credit" in the party for having said it at one time in the same way that Ryan has the reputation of being a hard numbers guy simply because he happens to know that 2+3 != potato.
 
2012-11-08 02:39:00 PM  
Florida Sen. Marco Rubio's name came up repeatedly

AKA: Make our token minority do it.
 
2012-11-08 02:42:04 PM  
NARF
 
2012-11-08 02:42:50 PM  
Is that man on turtle love I see?
 
2012-11-08 02:43:30 PM  
"A lot of people said [the Obama campaign] couldn't duplicate what they did in '08. They did it," said Republican Party of Florida Chairman Lenny Curry

www.lemoncurry.nl
 
2012-11-08 02:45:48 PM  

xanadian: Things like supply-side do work


[Citation Needed]

Does it even work a little bit? I've not seen it, and it doesn't make intuitive sense that it would.
 
2012-11-08 02:45:51 PM  
I have a really hard time not laughing when I see Republicans saying they have to reach out to women and Latinos.

I mean, they've BEEN reaching out, but they've been doing it with a dagger in their hand, aiming for the back.
 
2012-11-08 02:46:21 PM  
If the GOP had any sense of self-awareness, it would implode and cease to exist. The GOP definitely has a demographic problem that isn't going away. But I still get the feeling that nothing will change noticeably for at least a couple decades. The only way to change the GOP is wait for the old ones to die out. There is no introspection on the individual level.
 
2012-11-08 02:46:26 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: GAT_00: Rubio individually as the party's promising actors on immigration.

Funny, considering that when a copy of what Rubio was calling for came up for a vote, he didn't hesitate to vote against it.

All through this campaign, and *very* notably at the GOP Convention, Rubio has been notably reluctant to say anything about immigration. It's like he just gets "credit" in the party for having said it at one time in the same way that Ryan has the reputation of being a hard numbers guy simply because he happens to know that 2+3 != potato.


Ryan has not proven that he knows what "2+3" equals.

He is a extreme right-wing social conservative that has abortion views that mirror Todd Akin. He's just a tiny bit smarter which allows him to realize that he needs to keep his trap shut.

He advocates a budget change that includes no revenue increases, no defense spending cuts, privitization of Medicare, and massive discretionary spending cuts. But, it produces a balanced budget and magical employment figures that have never been achieved by the American economy. Ever.

He counts to potato just like the rest of them. He just seems to be able to count to potato in front of a camera without drooling.
 
2012-11-08 02:46:33 PM  

OceanVortex: So very true. Until fox news can tell the base the truth about why they lost- because GOP policies aren't inline with a majority of voters- the GOP won't be able to correctly reassess and move on from their losses.


Pretty much, but all you see is the same old leftist-driveby-lamestream-media-conspiracy bullshiat explaining why Romney lost. The closest they'll get to blaming themselves is blaming Chris Christie for walking next to Obama after the hurricane.
 
2012-11-08 02:46:34 PM  
Just to lighten your day, here's a complete list of all Pinkyisms
Link
 
2012-11-08 02:48:53 PM  

Abner Doon: xanadian: Things like supply-side do work

[Citation Needed]

Does it even work a little bit? I've not seen it, and it doesn't make intuitive sense that it would.


There's no evidence whatsoever that proves it works and it goes against every reasonable economic theory out there.

But, rich people have convinced stupid people that, if they were to get more money, they'd invest it in jobs.

That's ridiculous. Rich people are rich because, when they get more money, they save it instead of spending when they don't need to spend it. If they can meet lower demand now, a tax cut wont change that.
 
2012-11-08 02:49:39 PM  

OceanVortex: Best line in the article is the last line:

"The conservative media bubble is totally self-defeating for us. It denies us any realistic view of the real world of the general election, assuming instead that all politics is simply an extension of the Republican primary. It blindly drives us off one cliff after another," said Republican presidential strategist Mike Murphy. "We will not win the real world of big-turnout, presidential-year politics until our bubble realizes that a big world exists outside the precincts of the Republican primary."

"Said Murphy: "Much of the conservative media bubble, with its isolation, denial and semi-paranoia, only incentivized us to lose general elections.""

So very true. Until fox news can tell the base the truth about why they lost- because GOP policies aren't inline with a majority of voters- the GOP won't be able to correctly reassess and move on from their losses.


sounds like he watched Maddow last night
 
2012-11-08 02:49:49 PM  
They'd better hurry and do something before their base dies.
 
2012-11-08 02:50:49 PM  

Abner Doon: xanadian: Things like supply-side do work

[Citation Needed]

Does it even work a little bit? I've not seen it, and it doesn't make intuitive sense that it would.


Ya know, I read his entire post and agreed in large part with it, but I couldn't get past that part either. Supply-side economics is a complete sham.
 
2012-11-08 02:51:20 PM  

OceanVortex: Best line in the article is the last line:

"The conservative media bubble is totally self-defeating for us. It denies us any realistic view of the real world of the general election, assuming instead that all politics is simply an extension of the Republican primary. It blindly drives us off one cliff after another," said Republican presidential strategist Mike Murphy. "We will not win the real world of big-turnout, presidential-year politics until our bubble realizes that a big world exists outside the precincts of the Republican primary."

"Said Murphy: "Much of the conservative media bubble, with its isolation, denial and semi-paranoia, only incentivized us to lose general elections.""

So very true. Until fox news can tell the base the truth about why they lost- because GOP policies aren't inline with a majority of voters- the GOP won't be able to correctly reassess and move on from their losses.


If they did that, people might change the channel. Better keep on keepin on.
 
2012-11-08 02:51:24 PM  

Headso: OceanVortex: So very true. Until fox news can tell the base the truth about why they lost- because GOP policies aren't inline with a majority of voters- the GOP won't be able to correctly reassess and move on from their losses.

Pretty much, but all you see is the same old leftist-driveby-lamestream-media-conspiracy bullshiat explaining why Romney lost. The closest they'll get to blaming themselves is blaming Chris Christie for walking next to Obama after the hurricane.


they need to learn a hard lesson. reality doesn't care if you believe in it or not. it doesn't need your faith.
 
2012-11-08 02:54:05 PM  

xanadian: It's Boehner and the Mitch
Boehner and the Mitch
One is a moron
The other's a biatch


I laughed way harder than I should have at that. Thanks.
 
2012-11-08 02:54:12 PM  

xanadian: Things like supply-side do work... I'm [...] talking out of my ass [...]


Yes. Yes you are. The last thirty years have driven more than enough nails into the coffin of this asinine idea.
 
2012-11-08 02:55:21 PM  

bulldg4life: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: GAT_00: Rubio individually as the party's promising actors on immigration.

Funny, considering that when a copy of what Rubio was calling for came up for a vote, he didn't hesitate to vote against it.

All through this campaign, and *very* notably at the GOP Convention, Rubio has been notably reluctant to say anything about immigration. It's like he just gets "credit" in the party for having said it at one time in the same way that Ryan has the reputation of being a hard numbers guy simply because he happens to know that 2+3 != potato.

Ryan has not proven that he knows what "2+3" equals.

He is a extreme right-wing social conservative that has abortion views that mirror Todd Akin. He's just a tiny bit smarter which allows him to realize that he needs to keep his trap shut.

He advocates a budget change that includes no revenue increases, no defense spending cuts, privitization of Medicare, and massive discretionary spending cuts. But, he claims it produces a balanced budget and magical employment figures that have never been achieved by the American economy. Ever.

He counts to potato just like the rest of them. He just seems to be able to count to potato in front of a camera without drooling.


I know you are mocking him, but I just can't let that sentence be.

Sorry.
 
2012-11-08 02:55:32 PM  

tortilla burger: If the GOP had any sense of self-awareness, it would implode and cease to exist. The GOP definitely has a demographic problem that isn't going away. But I still get the feeling that nothing will change noticeably for at least a couple decades. The only way to change the GOP is wait for the old ones to die out. There is no introspection on the individual level.


What frustrates me most is that they'll approach this problem like a CEO approaches any demographic problem: they'll starting SAYING they support Latinos, they'll PRETEND to support more women's rights, etc., but it's just flowery gestures to win back more votes. Should they ever return to power, they'll go right back to not giving one perfumed turd about these demographics...
 
2012-11-08 02:57:29 PM  

OceanVortex: Best line in the article is the last line:

So very true. Until fox news can tell the base the truth about why they lost- because GOP policies aren't inline with a majority of voters- the GOP won't be able to correctly reassess and move on from their losses.


Agreed. FOX and the Conservative Media have not come to grips with the Bush Presidency. That put Romney in a position where he couldn't oppose anything that happened during that time and distance himself from it. Romney couldn't embrace Bush policies either because their more toxic than Courtney Love's twat. It left Romney in some Nowhereland where he had to deny reality (albeit he seemed pretty comfortible do it though).
 
2012-11-08 02:58:39 PM  
Immigration reform

Book it. Done.
 
2012-11-08 02:59:24 PM  
Obligatory ;)

And for those of you too young to get the reference, the Christopher Walken conversation is a parody of this scene. :)
 
2012-11-08 03:00:30 PM  

tortilla burger: If the GOP had any sense of self-awareness, it would implode and cease to exist. The GOP definitely has a demographic problem that isn't going away. But I still get the feeling that nothing will change noticeably for at least a couple decades. The only way to change the GOP is wait for the old ones to die out. There is no introspection on the individual level.


I think it might come sooner than a couple of decades. If the GOP trend of the past three presidential elections continues (2004: 62,040,610, 2008: 59,934,814, 2012: 57,884,882... I realize the 2012 number is probably not final, but it's highly doubtful that will surpass 2008 total) they've got a real problem on their hands even just in the next presidential cycle. 2012 was supposedly a year with a highly motivated GOP electorate and they still came in fewer votes than four years ago. If whoever the Dem candidate is in 2016 were to win combined with perhaps another drop in the GOP vote total, I think many will realize the pattern and why it is happening and know that 2020 won't get better, so I think it is possible in the next 8 years they might try to shake things up.
 
2012-11-08 03:03:19 PM  
"Unquestionably, the future leaders and candidate for president are going to come from the ranks of the governors," said McDonnell. "More importantly, leadership on policy will come from the governors; we're the ones doing the most to help create jobs. We get stuff done."

You're known as the Vaginal Probe Governor. The stuff you get done isn't what people want you to do.
 
2012-11-08 03:03:35 PM  
The inherent problem is that from all sides of the GOP I keep hearing that they're going to double their efforts and do two things:

-Concentrate on the state and local level

-Put up a more Conservative candidate in 2016

It's like they just sprinted into a brick wall and are expecting different results if they change shoes and only run into it at a jog.
 
2012-11-08 03:06:51 PM  

Bermuda59: Just to lighten your day, here's a complete list of all Pinkyisms
Link


Is that even legal, posting something so awesome in the politics tab?
 
2012-11-08 03:06:52 PM  

OceanVortex: Best line in the article is the last line:

"The conservative media bubble is totally self-defeating for us. It denies us any realistic view of the real world of the general election, assuming instead that all politics is simply an extension of the Republican primary. It blindly drives us off one cliff after another," said Republican presidential strategist Mike Murphy. "We will not win the real world of big-turnout, presidential-year politics until our bubble realizes that a big world exists outside the precincts of the Republican primary."

"Said Murphy: "Much of the conservative media bubble, with its isolation, denial and semi-paranoia, only incentivized us to lose general elections.""

So very true. Until fox news can tell the base the truth about why they lost- because GOP policies aren't inline with a majority of voters- the GOP won't be able to correctly reassess and move on from their losses.



But the GOP are already not doing that; their narrative now is that their policies are fine. Rather's it's just their fiery rhetoric that's the problem. They believe how they describe their policies is what failed not the policies themselves. The problem with the 2012 election, in their view is that they failed to describe their policies mighty Reagan or Gingrich in a way that people could digest.

In short, they learned nothing so far. Their "core" values are fine. They just need to send a different message to revitalize their brand.
 
2012-11-08 03:07:23 PM  

Abner Doon: xanadian: Things like supply-side do work

[Citation Needed]

Does it even work a little bit? I've not seen it, and it doesn't make intuitive sense that it would.


It works when demand exceeds supply it can help re-establish equilibrium. Does demand exceed supply today? Probably not, inflation is too low to suggest it does. Has demand ever outstripped supply? One could make the argument that it did during the 70's and Reagan was right to implement Supply Side Stimulus.

Tax breaks for businesses are a Keynesian policy. Supply Side is a Keynesian policy appropriate for a subset of economic issues that may arise. Reagan was a Keynesian.
 
2012-11-08 03:12:13 PM  

Muta: Courtney Love's twat


I am so glad "Courtney Love's twat" made it through the fark filter.
 
2012-11-08 03:17:04 PM  
Sorry - but you're going to need more than Rubio. Rubio is a Cuban Republican - he's not going to speak well to the REST of the Hispanic / Latino voting community. You need to go out and actively build up that base. You need to find some REAL women - bat-sugar crazy Bachmann, Malkin, Loesch, O'Donnell don't speak for most women I know.

You have to find a way to balance your bible-thumping and "husband submission" rhetoric with the fact that more and more women are educated and leaving the house.

You have to find a way to embrace ALL Americans and while I don't think the Democrats have it 100% figured out either, they seem to be doing a better job.

The third party candidates could be viable, but only if they come from a place that isn't so off-the-rocker crazy in some cases. You want to get rid of taxes - that's all well and good but give us a REAL plan to fix it to prevent the country from not going to hell in a hand basket while you implement it. Start by having your party candidates run for some House or Senate seats and gain some credibility -- it feels like when you show up on the Presidential ballot, no one has heard of you, no one knows what you stand for and no one knows what experience you have. Just like everyone else, work your way up from the bottom and rise to the top.

As for Mitch and John - I feel sorry for the both of them as well as the constituents who voted to keep them in office. We should demand more from them and working across the aisle and putting aside the R,D, I letters should be JOB 1. Digging your heels in and being petulant children is solving nothing -- 48 days gents, 48 days. Let's get this done!
 
2012-11-08 03:17:42 PM  

xanadian: It's Boehner and the Mitch
Boehner and the Mitch
One is a moron
The other's a biatch


/thread
//NARF
 
2012-11-08 03:17:59 PM  

Muta: Muta: Courtney Love's twat

I am so glad "Courtney Love's twat" made it through the fark filter.


I'm so glad the phrase takes on an entirely different meaning if you simply remove the apostrophe.
 
2012-11-08 03:20:21 PM  

AcademGreen: their narrative now is that their policies are fine. Rather's it's just their fiery rhetoric that's the problem.


Their policies are the major issue but the rhetoric is part of the problem as well. I'd give it a 50/30 split. There was a great article yesterday about how the homosexual community was able to gain so much popular support for same sex marriage to the point where a homosexual Senator was elected and same sex issues gain a lot of support this election. One thing they changed was their rhetoric. They went from "We're here! We're queer! Get used to it" and "We want the benefits you've got!" to "It's about family" and "It is about equal rights". The change in the rhetoric changed how their message resonated outside the homosexual community. It was a great article. I think it was on the Atlantic website.
 
2012-11-08 03:22:24 PM  

Alassra: Sorry - but you're going to need more than Rubio.


No, I think it's best if they stick with that whole Tea Party thing that worked out so well for them this election.
 
2012-11-08 03:23:06 PM  

theknuckler_33: tortilla burger: If the GOP had any sense of self-awareness, it would implode and cease to exist. The GOP definitely has a demographic problem that isn't going away. But I still get the feeling that nothing will change noticeably for at least a couple decades. The only way to change the GOP is wait for the old ones to die out. There is no introspection on the individual level.

I think it might come sooner than a couple of decades. If the GOP trend of the past three presidential elections continues (2004: 62,040,610, 2008: 59,934,814, 2012: 57,884,882... I realize the 2012 number is probably not final, but it's highly doubtful that will surpass 2008 total) they've got a real problem on their hands even just in the next presidential cycle. 2012 was supposedly a year with a highly motivated GOP electorate and they still came in fewer votes than four years ago. If whoever the Dem candidate is in 2016 were to win combined with perhaps another drop in the GOP vote total, I think many will realize the pattern and why it is happening and know that 2020 won't get better, so I think it is possible in the next 8 years they might try to shake things up.


If the GOP doesn't moderate their stance on immigration by 2020 their dwindling share of the popular vote will be the least of their worries. The possibility of places like Texas or Arizona being anything less than a solid red state in the next ten years should scare them shiatless.
 
2012-11-08 03:23:08 PM  

Cythraul: OceanVortex: So very true. Until fox news can tell the base the truth about why they lost- because GOP policies aren't inline with a majority of voters- the GOP won't be able to correctly reassess and move on from their losses.

That would be like Fox News telling it's viewers, "Hey, we farking lie to you. So stop watching us."

Unless they plan to change their formatting.


Don't expect to see any changes until their ratings start to drop. Fox News channel is a business and will continue to be run as such.
 
2012-11-08 03:24:43 PM  
I read an interview once where Vanilla Ice was describing the stark, instantaneous change that takes place when you get dropped by your record label. One day, you sell 11.7 million copies of an album and everyone is beating down your door. The next day, the luster has worn off, people have moved on to the next shiny thing down the road and absolutely nobody will return your calls. You're standing around going, "Guys?... Guys?..."

Can only imagine that getting dumped by your party the day after you were the HMIC is the same way.
 
2012-11-08 03:26:16 PM  
The problem is the evangelicals in the Republican Party. I saw a church this morning on Arkansas SR 41 whose sign proclaimed that "Success is not growth, but obedience."

This is not an anti-Christian thing, it is an indictment of religion in politics. If anyone else here has read Defensor Pacis, you understand where I am going with this.

Essentially, all fundamentalism says "Here is Truth, regardless of what the world tells you. Make reality mirror truth." An almost inescapable extrapolation is "Anything outside of this Truth is in opposition to what is good and right."

When you bring that mentality into politics, it stifles all other considerations. If I am a believer, then my opinions are by definition rooted in Truth and those in opposition are not just incorrect but wrong on a moral, ethical and sacred level. And that means I cannot budge from my stated position or I commit a sin. Not only that, but my Truth must be brought to all, or I commit another sin by allowing others to wallow in depravity.

We see this attitude in fundamentalists of every faith and creed. And I don't see a good way out of the woods for the Republican Party. I've come to accept that in the current alignment my form of conservatism is considered progressive instead, and I align more with the Greens than with the GOP.
 
2012-11-08 03:29:42 PM  

qorkfiend: If the GOP doesn't moderate their stance on immigration by 2020 their dwindling share of the popular vote will be the least of their worries. The possibility of places like Texas or Arizona being anything less than a solid red state in the next ten years should scare them shiatless.


Texas especially. That's a mountain of EVs.
 
2012-11-08 03:29:52 PM  
Well colour me surprised.....

//jk
 
2012-11-08 03:31:20 PM  
The idea that they're so convinced that Marco Rubio could save them just illustrates the undercurrent of racism in the party.

"Well shiat, the Dems got themselves a black and people must think that makes them cool. I can't see any other reason people are votin' for him, so it must be because of his race."
"I know! Let's get that there Mesican fella, Rubio! If we put him out front it'll surely get us some support from the other groups. It worked with Cain and Jindal! Them silly minorities can't help but vote for someone with the same colored skin!"
 
2012-11-08 03:39:21 PM  
"Florida Sen. Marco Rubio's name came up repeatedly."

Yes, you know what would work better when we talk about policies that hurt or have an impression of slighting Latinos...let's have a Latino guy talk about policies that hurt or have an impression of slighting Latinos. Because, let's face it, there's no way that those issues themselves are the problem.
 
2012-11-08 03:46:22 PM  

snowshovel: "Florida Sen. Marco Rubio's name came up repeatedly."

Yes, you know what would work better when we talk about policies that hurt or have an impression of slighting Latinos...let's have a Latino guy talk about policies that hurt or have an impression of slighting Latinos. Because, let's face it, there's no way that those issues themselves are the problem.


What gets me is that the rabid racist stuff was 3 years ago and the repubs lost the hispanic vote massively but the rape rape talk was months ago and the status quo on women stayed mainly the same.
 
2012-11-08 03:50:33 PM  

BKITU: qorkfiend: If the GOP doesn't moderate their stance on immigration by 2020 their dwindling share of the popular vote will be the least of their worries. The possibility of places like Texas or Arizona being anything less than a solid red state in the next ten years should scare them shiatless.

Texas especially. That's a mountain of EVs.


Some people said yesterday that the GOP won't change track until the Democrats crush them with 400+ EVs. If they lose Texas and Arizona that is a real possibility.
 
2012-11-08 04:10:53 PM  
The GOP has some choices.

1) Give up the expectation of winning elections at the national level.
2) Grow the sizes of the demographic groups that currently support them.
3) Increase turnout of those supporters (without pissing off current supporters enough to turn them to
non-supporters in larger numbers than the marginal turnout gain
).
4) Persuade more people in growing demographic groups to agree to support GOP candidates, by...
4.1) Rational appeals to accept the current GOP policy positions
4.2) Irrational appeals...
4.2.1) to accept the current GOP policy positions (again, without pissing off current supporters enough to turn them to non-supporters in larger numbers than the marginal turnout gain).
4.2.2) based on running more "token" candidates from the growing minorities (once more, without pissing off current supporters enough to turn them to non-supporters in larger numbers than the marginal turnout gain).
5) Shrink the number of active voters in demographic groups that oppose them by...
5.1) Suppressing the fraction voting
5.2) Reduce the population of those demographic groups
6) Change some of the policy positions to appeal to more people, particularly in growing demographic groups.

#1 is implausible.

#2 won't help any time soon as well as being really difficult. #3 is difficult, but there might be some tactics they can copy from the Obama team to get the GOP a little more. The obsessively empirical mindset that drove the Obama team, however, seems likely problematic given the GOP's apparent tendency to refuse acceptance to inconvenient empirical data.

#4.1 may not even be a self-consistent option, given the current attitudes apparently in vogue in the GOP base about intellectuals. The current "leading lights" seem at best pale shadows of William Buckley or Ayn Rand, who themselves were hardly titanic luminaries relative to the wider arena of politics. #4.2.1 might have some potentials I don't see (irrational persuasion is not my forte), but it looks like they're at the limits where increased scaremongering will drive away more moderates than it rallies terrified protofascists. #4.2.2 conceivably might work, except that such tokens are already hard to find without considerable slacking on ideological purity.

5.1 is criminal, but if the courts don't respond sharply the approach has significant risk of violent backlash. 5.2 verges on genocidal. Given US history, I don't put either out of the question. A replay of 1960s civil rights violence is about the best scenario to expect if they go that route.

That leaves #6. Unfortunately, that's going to involve pissing off some of their current core base, in a big way. The best chance that I see looks to be for the Moneycon and Jingocon factions to dig in and split off from the Theocon/Xenocon Tea Party types -- which will lose them at least half their numbers, and thus possibly the GOP/Republican name. They can then aim for a more Libertarian shore, and hope to pull in those plus some of the DIY democrats. Push against any legislative effort on the the abortion and gay marriage issues (voting "abstain" or "present" or not at all, rather than "yea" or "nay"), but once anything passes or is ruled on by the courts, accept it as the new status quo to be ignored once more. Recognize excessive corporate power is potentially as toxic as excess government power. Aim for "smaller government", but figure out where society will have a safety net and how it will maintain social mobility. They'll probably need to push for a change to the voting systems (concordet, instant run-off, whatever) to allow third party viability, as a way of buying some support from the Tea Party. (The democrats may prefer the GOP self-destruct, but might be long-sighted enough to see their own potential for fission.) That might be combined by addressing the problem of redistricting, and coming up with some principle yielding a long-term stable algorithm to take that source of political shenanigans off the table as the electoral college algorithm did for that back in the 1950s or so... though finally ditching that antique might also fit in well, and be needed if they don't want to take approach #1 on the presidency.

The biggest potential obstacle would be that I'm not sure the current officeholders are sufficiently representative of the GOP's internal factions to allow such a split to be graceful. Also, I may well be deluding myself on the coherence of such a platform block.
 
2012-11-08 04:29:15 PM  

qorkfiend: If the GOP doesn't moderate their stance on immigration by 2020


They've already scewed the pooch on immigration. Obam *is* going to push immigratin reform this term. The GOP has two choices. The Reps will either be productive partners with the dems and the president and pass a ballanced bill or they'll oppose it. If the bill passes it will be a victory for Obama which should help the dems in 2016. If the GOP opposes the bill, the hispanic population (which is bound to be larger the way Mexicans make babies) will be even more pro Dem and anti-GOP.

The Reps also have the problem of keeping their bigoted Teabaggers quiet during the discussions. One thing we learned about Teabaggers from the rape discussions was they really don't know when to STFU.
 
2012-11-08 04:57:26 PM  

Muta: qorkfiend: If the GOP doesn't moderate their stance on immigration by 2020

They've already scewed the pooch on immigration. Obam *is* going to push immigratin reform this term. The GOP has two choices. The Reps will either be productive partners with the dems and the president and pass a ballanced bill or they'll oppose it. If the bill passes it will be a victory for Obama which should help the dems in 2016. If the GOP opposes the bill, the hispanic population (which is bound to be larger the way Mexicans make babies) will be even more pro Dem and anti-GOP.

The Reps also have the problem of keeping their bigoted Teabaggers quiet during the discussions. One thing we learned about Teabaggers from the rape discussions was they really don't know when to STFU.


Bipartisanship to make inroads with the minority voting blocs is the lesser of the two evils in that scenario.

The question is if enough of the Republicans in the House can realize that (including Boehner, assuming he maintains Speaker status)
 
2012-11-08 05:20:29 PM  
i204.photobucket.com
Oldie but still a goodie.
 
2012-11-08 05:32:18 PM  
Here's the Republican Problem in a nutshell: over the course of thirty years, they have stopped giving a fark about everybody, including their base of poor and afraid white people. They have crafted their message so keenly that they have dumped everything else that can appeal outside of this group. They've even handed over fiscal conservative thought back in 1993 to the Democrats, assured that any change would take over so slowly that they could see and negate it. If they even thought about it. And with the Dubya Administration, they were satisfied that they could fool their way into power time and again, allowing them to grow lazy.

And here is where they implode: they wildly overestimated their own skills, and wildly underestimated the effects of their nonsense on the voting public. The game is up for the Republicans because not only do they not have the ability to really pull away from their politics, their base will not let them. And this is ignoring the YEARS of misinformation that has been stored and dissected and mocked on the web. The Republican game is very well known and studied at this point. They really can't back out of the mess they created. Nor should they: they have proven that they are above nothing to attempt to grab power, not even rape.

The Republican soul searching comes too late. Not only did they try to pull the wool over everybody's eyes with their baffling and psychotic attacks on polling that was proven to be nothing but fantasy, they have lost all credibility. Mitch McConnell shows that the Republicans are not serious about changing. They just don't know how to deal with the loss. And right now, the only place for the Republican Party is on the scrap heap. They will not change, and there's no reason why anybody should go out of their way to save a political party that no longer has a real purpose.
 
2012-11-08 07:28:13 PM  

xanadian: The funny thing about economic policy is there's no real way of knowing it will work until you implement it. Keynsian economics have worked so far, but is there a point where it doesn't work as well as it once did?


No economic theory or plan works the same way forever. There is no such thing as a permanent solution -- everything is subject to wars, politics, demographics and population, social mobility, workforce and resources, fads, trends, confidence/paranoia, and of course human farking behavior.

So every theory needs to be continuously retooled and modified with changing conditions in demographics.

xanadian: Kind of like how the laws of physics morph a bit between the macroscopic world and the quantum world. But in economics, these "laws" are considerably more vague and nebulous. So, you have to keep re-evaluating your positions.


Economics is, ultimately, nothing but a series of numbers and formulas in an impossibly massive equation. The problem is, unlike physics proofs, we don't actually know what that equation looks like. We have general ideas of what parts of it look like and how it operates, but no one understands the complete, big picture to mathematical clarity, such that when we make small adjustments to the equation like changing interest rates or deregulating investment brackets, the results surprise us. Because they're almost nothing like what we predicted would happen. Not even supply & demand works the way it should -- you can not predict human behavior, at least not as accurate as you can the Universe.

The changes people make to the great economics algorithm are always blind, usually self-serving, and won't work the same way forever. There are men who come forth every now and then -- Keynes, Friedman, Greenspan, etc -- who propose theories and write treatises on how to manipulate the equation to make good things happen, and people put these theories to the test.....and the theories always get things partly right and partly wrong, but no theory gets it completely right.
 
2012-11-08 10:02:44 PM  

DeltaPunch: Bermuda59: Just to lighten your day, here's a complete list of all Pinkyisms
Link

Is that even legal, posting something so awesome in the politics tab?


I don't know Brain, but instant karma always gets so lumpy.
 
2012-11-08 10:28:06 PM  
I was pissed on Tuesday as I was just waiting to vote against Boehner. And then I saw there was no opposition, so I wrote in our old representative (and a Republican, no less) that was gerrymandered out of my district.
 
2012-11-09 02:40:05 AM  

Guntram Shatterhand: Here's the Republican Problem in a nutshell: over the course of thirty years, they have stopped giving a fark about everybody, including their base of poor and afraid white people. They have crafted their message so keenly that they have dumped everything else that can appeal outside of this group. They've even handed over fiscal conservative thought back in 1993 to the Democrats, assured that any change would take over so slowly that they could see and negate it. If they even thought about it. And with the Dubya Administration, they were satisfied that they could fool their way into power time and again, allowing them to grow lazy.

And here is where they implode: they wildly overestimated their own skills, and wildly underestimated the effects of their nonsense on the voting public. The game is up for the Republicans because not only do they not have the ability to really pull away from their politics, their base will not let them. And this is ignoring the YEARS of misinformation that has been stored and dissected and mocked on the web. The Republican game is very well known and studied at this point. They really can't back out of the mess they created. Nor should they: they have proven that they are above nothing to attempt to grab power, not even rape.

The Republican soul searching comes too late. Not only did they try to pull the wool over everybody's eyes with their baffling and psychotic attacks on polling that was proven to be nothing but fantasy, they have lost all credibility. Mitch McConnell shows that the Republicans are not serious about changing. They just don't know how to deal with the loss. And right now, the only place for the Republican Party is on the scrap heap. They will not change, and there's no reason why anybody should go out of their way to save a political party that no longer has a real purpose.


Pretty much.

The GOP at the moment is the party you turn to when you're scared of gays, women making decisions over their own bodies, non-existent gun grabs, and socialism. They had this election in the bag and they're still dumbfounded that they lost.

You can't cut one of these reactionary legs off the stool without the entire thing falling over. It's Frankenstein's monster and the Jewish golem come home to roost, and the party leaders have no other option but to double down on the derp and hope they scare up some more old white folks.
 
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