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(Boomstick Comics)   Neil Gaiman will return to 'Doctor Who' with Cyberman   (boomstickcomics.com ) divider line
    More: Cool, Cybermen, Neil Gaiman, Doctor Who, physicians, Hugo Award, Warwick Davis, Potter films, The Doctor's Wife  
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2937 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 07 Nov 2012 at 5:10 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-07 03:10:41 PM  
I agree with that author... Can't wait.
 
2012-11-07 03:18:45 PM  
SWEET
 
2012-11-07 03:38:39 PM  
The Cybermen are terrible. Like many Dr. Who villains, their greatest weakness is their inability to run.
 
2012-11-07 04:04:53 PM  
*And* a guy from Harry Potter?

Whoa.
 
2012-11-07 04:48:28 PM  
My TARDIS is ready!
 
2012-11-07 05:11:26 PM  
Awesome news.
 
2012-11-07 05:23:02 PM  
FTFA: Cyberman, the vicious cyborg (much like cylons)

Ummm.... right.
 
2012-11-07 05:24:58 PM  
YAY
 
2012-11-07 05:32:34 PM  
Woot!
 
2012-11-07 05:34:34 PM  
Sweet. His last episode was brilliant.
 
2012-11-07 05:36:54 PM  
Oh yeah, I'm there with bells on!

/What?
//Bells are cool now.
///Bringing them back.
 
2012-11-07 05:47:08 PM  
Cyberman? Like, one of them?
 
2012-11-07 05:50:41 PM  
Hopefully this will be "real "Cybermen, not retconned ones. I hate, hate, hate, what they did with a once great foe.
 
2012-11-07 05:55:20 PM  
Hope they won't go "Asylum of..." with this one. But if it's a must, then at least focus more on the original, death-by-floodlight ones.
 
2012-11-07 05:58:15 PM  
Dear Dr. Who writers,

The Cybermen are awful. Nothing you can write can make them better. No additional information or revision will ever make me feel anything but disgust whenever I see a Cybermen episode. They are a joke and a bad one at that. Take the Daleks, strip them of everything good about the character, add hands, and you get the Cybermen.

So here is my suggestion. Have them show up, the Doctor presses a button on some device and the Cybermen explode. The Doctor says, "well I finally got the last of them." And then continue the episode with some other creature like the Cybermen never existed.

While they might have been interesting pre 2006, I am well aware of the Borg and how much better of a character they are in every respect. Including humor. Please, stop writing Cybermen episodes.

Sincerely,
TGWJH
 
2012-11-07 06:00:22 PM  

TGWJH: Dear Dr. Who writers,

The Cybermen are awful. Nothing you can write can make them better. No additional information or revision will ever make me feel anything but disgust whenever I see a Cybermen episode. They are a joke and a bad one at that. Take the Daleks, strip them of everything good about the character, add hands, and you get the Cybermen.

So here is my suggestion. Have them show up, the Doctor presses a button on some device and the Cybermen explode. The Doctor says, "well I finally got the last of them." And then continue the episode with some other creature like the Cybermen never existed.

While they might have been interesting pre 2006, I am well aware of the Borg and how much better of a character they are in every respect. Including humor. Please, stop writing Cybermen episodes.

Sincerely,
TGWJH


sadly, yes
 
2012-11-07 06:09:05 PM  
screw the cybermen, bring back the iccccccccccccccccce warriors. it's only been 38 years since they have been on
 
2012-11-07 06:11:14 PM  
The original point of the Cybermen was to play on the fear of electronics replacing human tissue. Where does the man end and the machine begin? Artificial hearts and limbs being even more common now than they were back when they originated, they have the potential to be truly scary.

I did like how the modern ones 'started with people's growing dependence on technology. The ever present Bluetooth in the ear or cellphone glued to the hand. From there, though, it got stupid- ghosts in another reality crap didn't sit well with me but that's RTD for you.
 
2012-11-07 06:15:54 PM  
Make him the 3rd Doctor to visit the tomb.
 
2012-11-07 06:18:19 PM  

Dead for Tax Reasons: screw the cybermen, bring back the iccccccccccccccccce warriors. it's only been 38 years since they have been on


Merry Christmas, they are.
 
2012-11-07 06:22:49 PM  
I'm ready for this.
 
2012-11-07 06:23:59 PM  

Wasn't Looking at his Neck: Dead for Tax Reasons: screw the cybermen, bring back the iccccccccccccccccce warriors. it's only been 38 years since they have been on

Merry Christmas, they are.


sweet, awesome news, thanks
 
2012-11-07 06:32:58 PM  

TGWJH: While they might have been interesting pre 2006, I am well aware of the Borg and how much better of a character they are in every respect. Including humor.


I don't know. I don't remember the Borg being involved in any scene as funny as the Cybermen getting trash-talked by the Daleks.
 
2012-11-07 06:35:47 PM  
I wish Neil Gaiman would write more novels. I also miss the days when his blog was about something other than Amanda Palmer's gigs. I'm very pleased for him that he's happily married and working on projects that interest him, but as a fan I grow weary of his new career, Dr. Who writer/Amanda Palmer press agent and backup singer.
 
2012-11-07 06:35:58 PM  

Fish in a Barrel: TGWJH: While they might have been interesting pre 2006, I am well aware of the Borg and how much better of a character they are in every respect. Including humor.

I don't know. I don't remember the Borg being involved in any scene as funny as the Cybermen getting trash-talked by the Daleks.


Not to mention the Borg were basically gutted as a villain in Voyager.
 
2012-11-07 06:37:58 PM  

mjbok: Hopefully this will be "real "Cybermen, not retconned ones. I hate, hate, hate, what they did with a once great foe.


Last time 11 countered them, they were the Mondas (aka old school) variety. Hopefully the Cybus nonsense was dead and buried along with RTD's other terrible ideas.
 
2012-11-07 06:38:32 PM  

ConConHead: The original point of the Cybermen was to play on the fear of electronics replacing human tissue. Where does the man end and the machine begin? Artificial hearts and limbs being even more common now than they were back when they originated, they have the potential to be truly scary.

I did like how the modern ones 'started with people's growing dependence on technology. The ever present Bluetooth in the ear or cellphone glued to the hand. From there, though, it got stupid- ghosts in another reality crap didn't sit well with me but that's RTD for you.


I think, but don't quote me on it, that the Classic Cyberman were all wiped out. So RTD came up with some stupid story to bring them back. That's when RTD went past just annoying to stupid.
 
2012-11-07 06:44:10 PM  

Snapper Carr: Last time 11 countered them, they were the Mondas (aka old school) variety. Hopefully the Cybus nonsense was dead and buried along with RTD's other terrible ideas


Really? Did I miss one? The last time I remember seeing them was in the Pandorica episodes, and they were still the new style.

//Last time I remember seeing the original type were in the museum in "Dalek".
 
2012-11-07 06:49:17 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com

Would you like me to repeat the question?
 
2012-11-07 06:51:06 PM  
It's Neil Gaiman so it's going to be painfully derivative of whatever is really popular right now- so how much zombie school teachers making meth can you take?
 
2012-11-07 06:54:05 PM  

mjbok: Snapper Carr: Last time 11 countered them, they were the Mondas (aka old school) variety. Hopefully the Cybus nonsense was dead and buried along with RTD's other terrible ideas

Really? Did I miss one? The last time I remember seeing them was in the Pandorica episodes, and they were still the new style.

//Last time I remember seeing the original type were in the museum in "Dalek".


Well the episode "Closing Time" from newwho series 6 has the Doctor meeting Cybermen using Cybermats and they didn't have the Cybus industries logo on them, so many people have taken this to mean that they're offshoots of the original Mondas cybermen, even though they look exactly the same.
 
2012-11-07 07:05:45 PM  
I'm about 100 pages into American Gods. Except for one foray into a historical narrative, the story has been pure tedium. I hope it gets better.
 
2012-11-07 07:23:54 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: I'm about 100 pages into American Gods. Except for one foray into a historical narrative, the story has been pure tedium. I hope it gets better.


Spoiler alert: It doesn't really get any better.
 
2012-11-07 07:30:24 PM  

TGWJH: Dear Dr. Who writers,

The Cybermen are awful. Nothing you can write can make them better. No additional information or revision will ever make me feel anything but disgust whenever I see a Cybermen episode. They are a joke and a bad one at that. Take the Daleks, strip them of everything good about the character, add hands, and you get the Cybermen.


Well, they are better at dying.
 
2012-11-07 07:36:20 PM  
For those of you not familiar with the Cybermen as they used to be, I suggest you watch some classic Who. They used to have plans that were not about converting everyone to Cybermen. Just because neither RTD nor Moffat know what to do with them does not make them crappy villains.
If anyone can make the Cybermen as interesting as they used to be, it will be Neil.
 
2012-11-07 07:40:21 PM  

SockMonkeyHolocaust: It's Neil Gaiman so it's going to be painfully derivative of whatever is really popular right now- so how much zombie school teachers making meth can you take?


I don't even care enough to give you a score. Just go fark off and fark yourself.
 
2012-11-07 07:46:27 PM  
Warwick Davis! I shall be happy no matter what, Warwick is always worth watching. Also, RTD ruined a lot of episodes that could've been really good because he just can't leave the story alone without involving some sort of soap opera involving family and friends. The overly-emotional nonsense grated on my nerves after a while.

Dead for Tax Reasons: screw the cybermen, bring back the iccccccccccccccccce warriors. it's only been 38 years since they have been on

. Seconded. I loved the ice warriors, and have a soft spot for Fenric too, but Bok rules. We need to bring back The Daemons. And maybe The Pyramids of Mars.
 
2012-11-07 08:05:11 PM  

Galactica Actual: I wish Neil Gaiman would write more novels. I also miss the days when his blog was about something other than Amanda Palmer's gigs. I'm very pleased for him that he's happily married and working on projects that interest him, but as a fan I grow weary of his new career, Dr. Who writer/Amanda Palmer press agent and backup singer.


He is working on another Sandman graphic novel at the moment, and is having a children's book coming out soon. The guy use to be super introverted, and is finally found someone to expand his horizons for once. Also his episode of Doctor Who last season was one of the best episodes that season.
 
2012-11-07 08:12:40 PM  
The problem with the old school Cybermen, is they'll be easily defeated by Glenn Beck and an army of gold hoarding Tea Party Patriots.

/For those that don't know, the Cybermen of old had one weakness, they were allergic to gold dust.
 
2012-11-07 08:19:42 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: I'm about 100 pages into American Gods. Except for one foray into a historical narrative, the story has been pure tedium. I hope it gets better.


American Gods is my least favorite Gaiman story. I'm not really sure why everyone points to it as an example of good Gaiman. The non-direct sequel Anansi Boys deals with similar themes but is *much* more fun. His two books of short stories that I know of, Smoke & Mirrors and Fragile Things are pretty great, though of course not every story in them is good. Fragile Things features a story called "Goliath" set in the Matrix universe that is ten times better than any of the sequels.
 
2012-11-07 08:24:17 PM  
I'm sorry, the idea of Cybermen cutting your brain out of your head while you're alive is rather disturbing.
 
2012-11-07 08:26:23 PM  
The Cybermen need an upgrade. Maybe be able to control human electronics, or have them transplant themselves into the Internet.
 
2012-11-07 08:40:37 PM  
It won't take much to make it the best episode of the season, as it's been farking awful thus far. Moffat or not, they need to get back to basics, and stop trying to show us how clever they think they are.
 
2012-11-07 08:49:57 PM  
Hoping Neil brings back the original, cloth-faced Cybermen from "The Tenth Planet".

unisycdotorg.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-07 09:32:13 PM  

Hebalo: It won't take much to make it the best episode of the season, as it's been farking awful thus far. Moffat or not, they need to get back to basics, and stop trying to show us how clever they think they are.


This. Blech. The more clever they try to get, the more they mess up and have to change / retcon later.
 
2012-11-07 09:36:29 PM  
 
2012-11-07 09:39:07 PM  
this season almost lost me with the 'Angel of Liberty', come onnnnnn. so many times this season it just seems silly and directionless. i enjoyed the Power of Three, and would like to see more of these... Shakri and their Tally.

Doctor Who has so many monsters and alien villains. bring back more of them, show us the Macra again but do them properly, etc.
 
2012-11-07 09:57:19 PM  

I. M. Foreman: Hoping Neil brings back the original, cloth-faced Cybermen from "The Tenth Planet".


THAT would .... beawe SOME
 
2012-11-07 09:57:41 PM  
At first I thought it said Neil deGrasse and almost had a nerdgasm.

Next year can't come fast enough.
 
2012-11-07 10:52:46 PM  

jackmalice: TGWJH: Dear Dr. Who writers,

The Cybermen are awful. Nothing you can write can make them better. No additional information or revision will ever make me feel anything but disgust whenever I see a Cybermen episode. They are a joke and a bad one at that. Take the Daleks, strip them of everything good about the character, add hands, and you get the Cybermen.


Well, they are better at dying.


"this is pest control!"
 
2012-11-07 11:14:27 PM  
Cyberman, Cyberman, does whatever a cyber can...

What?

/wrong show?
 
2012-11-07 11:30:28 PM  

Spiralmonkey: I loved the ice warriors, and have a soft spot for Fenric too, but Bok rules.


Thanks, I appreciate it.
 
2012-11-07 11:41:44 PM  

The_Eliminator: Man, I hope they bring back the 80's Jamaican Cybermen


That was awesome, bookmarking...

caperbear: this season almost lost me with the 'Angel of Liberty', come onnnnnn. so many times this season it just seems silly and directionless. i enjoyed the Power of Three, and would like to see more of these... Shakri and their Tally.

Doctor Who has so many monsters and alien villains. bring back more of them, show us the Macra again but do them properly, etc.


I enjoyed that episode, I just wish they could have done something with the Angel of Liberty other than just have it stand there and growl. Also, head over to youtube and look for the never filmed ending to that episode.

Personally, I would love to see some new Cybermen that look like advanced versions from the Sixth and Seventh Doctor era Cybermen, or maybe have some museum where old school Cybermen, all the different varieties are stored. Or, possibly even an episode based on the 5th Doctor audio play 'Spare Parts', about the conversion of the people of Mondas into the first generation of Cybermen.
 
2012-11-07 11:45:45 PM  

mjbok: Snapper Carr: Last time 11 countered them, they were the Mondas (aka old school) variety. Hopefully the Cybus nonsense was dead and buried along with RTD's other terrible ideas

Really? Did I miss one? The last time I remember seeing them was in the Pandorica episodes, and they were still the new style.

//Last time I remember seeing the original type were in the museum in "Dalek".


They also had a line about "all universes being deleted" in the Pandorica Opens, which I took to mean that they were from the parallel world.
 
2012-11-07 11:54:27 PM  

Great Janitor: Or, possibly even an episode based on the 5th Doctor audio play 'Spare Parts', about the conversion of the people of Mondas into the first generation of Cybermen.


Technically, they already did that with Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel (they even name dropped Spare Parts at one point). But yeah, a more direct adaptation would be much better.

Personally, I'd like to see a new design based on the 1970s design (c.f. Revenge of the Cybermen, or the display case in Dalek) but a little sleeker and updated.
 
2012-11-08 12:03:49 AM  

xanadian: *And* a guy from Harry Potter?

Whoa.


A bunch of the cast of Harry Potter has wandered through Doctor Who.
And that list doesn't include this season, which had the return of David Bradley (Argus Filch/Solomon) & Mark Williams (Arthur Weasley/Brian Williams) in the same episode.
 
2012-11-08 12:11:40 AM  
Now that Romney's not running for president anymore he can get a cameo.
 
2012-11-08 01:06:12 AM  

Galactica Actual: I wish Neil Gaiman would write more novels. I also miss the days when his blog was about something other than Amanda Palmer's gigs.


He has a tumblr, maybe follow that. Since people can do 'asks' there he answers a lot of questions about writing, Dr Who, and random shiat. He's done a few posts about the table read for this episode.

http://neil-gaiman.tumblr.com/

Watch Neil Gaiman reblog fan art and cosplayers. Lulz.
 
2012-11-08 03:48:48 AM  

Comsamvimes: Fragile Things features a story called "Goliath" set in the Matrix universe that is ten times better than any of the sequels.


"Other People" remains my favorite from that collection.

"The Doctor's Wife" ruled.

Kinda meh about Cyberman to be honest but I'm sure they'll find a way to make it work..
 
2012-11-08 03:49:25 AM  
Cyberman? There's only been the one, then? He fakes being a murderous army of the technological undead quite well.

If that's the title of the episode, like "Dalek", then it might be kind of awesome. I'm imagining a storyline where the conversion into or existence of a single Cyberman was so terrible and dreadful that it became the focus and centerpiece of the story. With Gaiman writing it there should be some deep yet not-humorless exploration and perspective. And come out much better than Torchwood's "Cyberwoman". 'Cuz that kind of sucked.

/Cloth-faced Cybermen for the win.
 
2012-11-08 04:38:00 AM  

rickycal78: Well the episode "Closing Time" from newwho series 6 has the Doctor meeting Cybermen using Cybermats and they didn't have the Cybus industries logo on them, so many people have taken this to mean that they're offshoots of the original Mondas cybermen, even though they look exactly the same.


Keep in mind that in "Closing Time" the Cybership buried beneath the department store had crashed centuries earlier, and that by itself rules out Cybus Industries nuWhobermen. They are from Mondas - as are all Moffat-era Cybermen. Remember, the Cybermen in "A Good Man Goes to War" had no Cybus logo either.
 
2012-11-08 05:39:41 AM  

100 Watt Walrus:

Keep in mind that in "Closing Time" the Cybership buried beneath the department store had crashed centuries earlier, and that by itself rules out Cybus Industries nuWhobermen. They are from Mondas - as are all Moffat-era Cybermen. Remember, the Cybermen in "A Good Man Goes to War" had no Cybus logo either.


Which brings its own set of problems since the Cybermen didn't return to the Sol system til 1986 or so. Advanced scoutship maybe?

Definately some good news though. Here's hoping we get a story closer to Big Finish's creepy Spare Parts audio story and less the usual marching robots from the tv show.
 
2012-11-08 05:48:53 AM  

rickycal78: mjbok: Snapper Carr: Last time 11 countered them, they were the Mondas (aka old school) variety. Hopefully the Cybus nonsense was dead and buried along with RTD's other terrible ideas

Really? Did I miss one? The last time I remember seeing them was in the Pandorica episodes, and they were still the new style.

//Last time I remember seeing the original type were in the museum in "Dalek".

Well the episode "Closing Time" from newwho series 6 has the Doctor meeting Cybermen using Cybermats and they didn't have the Cybus industries logo on them, so many people have taken this to mean that they're offshoots of the original Mondas cybermen, even though they look exactly the same.



Um, no. They were the newer Cybus Cybermen. The newer style, the newer actions, the newer weapons. They added the Cybermat to add that bit of old-school-ness to the show again, but they weren't the Mondas Cybermen.

"... so many people have taken this to mean they're offshoots of the original Mondas cybermen." No they haven't. A few people who read way too much into every little detail of an episode came up with yet another far-out theory that sounded cool.
 
2012-11-08 05:54:26 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: rickycal78: Well the episode "Closing Time" from newwho series 6 has the Doctor meeting Cybermen using Cybermats and they didn't have the Cybus industries logo on them, so many people have taken this to mean that they're offshoots of the original Mondas cybermen, even though they look exactly the same.

Keep in mind that in "Closing Time" the Cybership buried beneath the department store had crashed centuries earlier, and that by itself rules out Cybus Industries nuWhobermen. They are from Mondas - as are all Moffat-era Cybermen. Remember, the Cybermen in "A Good Man Goes to War" had no Cybus logo either.


It rules out nothing. The newer Cybermen lost the Cybus logo, that's all. They've already been jumping around both time and parallel universes. Different weapons, TOTALLY different stylings, and no silly weakness to gold. They're the new-school variety.
 
2012-11-08 06:39:07 AM  

LeoffDaGrate: It rules out nothing. The newer Cybermen lost the Cybus logo, that's all. They've already been jumping around both time and parallel universes. Different weapons, TOTALLY different stylings, and no silly weakness to gold. They're the new-school variety.


Well, obviously they're not going to go back to the '60s-'80s style Cybermen.

I don't remember nuWho Cybermen doing any time travel. Can you refresh my memory on that? Is there any point at which it's specifically mentioned that they've time-travelled? Or are you assuming so because nuWho Cybers have shown up in Victorian times, etc.?

As for not having a weakness to gold, I don't recall them specifically coming into contact with gold - at least not the ones I'm presuming to be Mondas Cybers. The Pete's World Cybers may have, as RTD was trying to clearly establish that his Cybers were not old-school Cybers, but not those in "A Good Man Goes to War" or "Closing Time."
 
2012-11-08 07:51:47 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: LeoffDaGrate: It rules out nothing. The newer Cybermen lost the Cybus logo, that's all. They've already been jumping around both time and parallel universes. Different weapons, TOTALLY different stylings, and no silly weakness to gold. They're the new-school variety.

Well, obviously they're not going to go back to the '60s-'80s style Cybermen.

I don't remember nuWho Cybermen doing any time travel. Can you refresh my memory on that? Is there any point at which it's specifically mentioned that they've time-travelled? Or are you assuming so because nuWho Cybers have shown up in Victorian times, etc.?

As for not having a weakness to gold, I don't recall them specifically coming into contact with gold - at least not the ones I'm presuming to be Mondas Cybers. The Pete's World Cybers may have, as RTD was trying to clearly establish that his Cybers were not old-school Cybers, but not those in "A Good Man Goes to War" or "Closing Time."



You're trying to make things "fit" with the vaguest of information. There's no indication that these are old-school Cybermen

Time Travel theories and examples:
"Army of Ghosts" Cybermen traveled through the void to a parallel universe, but no limitations are given as to what time period they can deposit themselves in, like much the Void Ship.
"The Next Doctor". Yes, Cybermen in Victorian times.
"The Pandorica Opens" Cybermen guard the Pandorica for hundreds, perhaps thousands of years.
"A Good Man goes to War" Cybermen in the future. Possibly from simple linear progression, possibly from time travel. No way to know, not addressed.

No contact with gold does not equal weakness for gold. Besides, if gold WAS a weakness, and they were old school, sooner or later the Doctor would have used it somehow as a plot point to help push the notion that these were old-schoolers.

Nowhere in any interviews or the episodes themselves have RTD, SM, or any other writers or producers mentioned Mondas, "old school" Cybermen, or given any hint of their former origin, aside from the brief view of the head of an old-schooler in "Dalek" and a hint of a reference in "Age of Steel."

It's very nice to think that the old school menace is back, but it's not, it's next gen, parallel-universe-originated model, like it or not.
 
2012-11-08 08:13:54 AM  
His dr who episode was better than any of his books.. looking forward to this
 
2012-11-08 09:14:08 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: I'm about 100 pages into American Gods. Except for one foray into a historical narrative, the story has been pure tedium. I hope it gets better.


He goes on long, wandering journeys that don't seem to make any sense, but then 2/3 of the way through he suddenly ties it all together and it picks up pace. I wouldn't call it original, and it was barely riveting, but he does have a way of making me care juuuust enough to keep turning that next page to find out WTF is going to happen next. I didn't think it was his best work, but I liked some of the character development enough to recommend it to anyone asking about Neil.

pseudowho: Personally, I'd like to see a new design based on the 1970s design (c.f. Revenge of the Cybermen, or the display case in Dalek) but a little sleeker and updated.


There has to be a way to incorporate some of the terrifying uniformity and death-like, blank, expressionless faces from the very first through the '70's era Cybers, but still make it modern. Even some of the "guts shots" from that one Colin Baker episode had a chilling effect on me as a teenager, as they were converting some poor soul into one. If they can go back to capturing the essence of the dehumanifying, but shed the utter uselessness, silliness, and cheesiness of the "modern" Cybermen, but bring back the understated threatening, and MAKE THE DAMNED THINGS MOVE, then we'd finally have a "new" villain worth keeping. For crying out loud, they're supposed to be superior!! The advanced tech should make them FASTER, stronger, smarter, and generally edgier enough to make them an actual threat. If one were to re-introduce the "gold plates/blocks their respiration" weakness, do it in a way that makes it damned difficult to do, so much so that you wind up with a lot of up-close and personal battles with physical action, and more tragic 'Adric' moments. This shouldn't be hard to do, since so many of the Doctor's companions die for him.

I still in my heart believe that the Cybermen are the most under-developed enemy the Doctor has, and it's about damned time someone made them terrifying again, both on an overt and subliminal level. Star Trek shouldn't have all the good "Borg" stories.

I only just recently watched "Tomb Of The Cybermen" for the very first time, and that was one helluva good psychological story, even if all it was was a modern :Mummy Returns" tale.
 
2012-11-08 09:41:41 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: I'm about 100 pages into American Gods. Except for one foray into a historical narrative, the story has been pure tedium. I hope it gets better.



In my opinion there's no shame in setting aside a book you just can't get into. I loved American Gods from the beginning, but everyone's mileage varies.


Galactica Actual: I wish Neil Gaiman would write more novels. I also miss the days when his blog was about something other than Amanda Palmer's gigs. I'm very pleased for him that he's happily married and working on projects that interest him, but as a fan I grow weary of his new career, Dr. Who writer/Amanda Palmer press agent and backup singer.



When I started reading his stuff shortly before Anansi Boys came out, he was the opposite -- it seemed like almost every month he either released something big or announced he was working on something huge. Novels, screenplays, short story collections, he had a lot going on. And being exactly his age myself (to the day, in fact) with a family of my own and a sometimes-busy work schedule, I couldn't see how he could continue along that path and stay healthy and sane.

So I sent him several messages on his website-messagey-thingy suggesting that he slow the fark down, wrap up current projects and take a sabbatical for a year or three, spend some quality time with his family and loved ones, that he doesn't owe us anything at all... and that's almost exactly what he's proceeded to do. So you can blame me.

(I shouldn't really be so conceited to think that I gave him the idea. He had to be thinking along similar lines all on his own.)
 
2012-11-08 09:53:03 AM  

RevMercutio: xanadian: *And* a guy from Harry Potter?

Whoa.

A bunch of the cast of Harry Potter has wandered through Doctor Who.
And that list doesn't include this season, which had the return of David Bradley (Argus Filch/Solomon) & Mark Williams (Arthur Weasley/Brian Williams) in the same episode.


I knew about David Bradley and that guy who played Dumbledore, but that was it.
 
2012-11-08 10:12:47 AM  

Keyser_Soze_Death: AverageAmericanGuy: I'm about 100 pages into American Gods. Except for one foray into a historical narrative, the story has been pure tedium. I hope it gets better.

Spoiler alert: It doesn't really get any better.


Spoiler alert, it gets slightly better.

I'm glad he acknowledged Harlan Ellison at the end; in the end, I feel that he is a bit derivative of Ellison, but actually has the ability to write a novel.

As a Tom Baker devotee who has enjoyed NuWho, can I just say that the Matt Smith years have pretty much sailed way over the shark? Just giving Amy and Rory a bizarre "happily ever after / can't see them ever again for timey-wimey reasons" is not enough. Don't care how cute the new companion is.

Replace the lot of 'em, writers, actors, the whole bit. Revisit some old unused villains -- Ice Warriors a good start, Zygons maybe (they keep mentioning them).

I would love to see him reunited with that one-eyed walking dildo named Alpha Centauri from the Troughton/Pertwee years; CGI might make him a better alien. Maybe check out how Andred and Leela are doing (Louise Jameson may still be fap-worthy).

What happened to K9 now that poor Ms Sladen died? How did the series end, I never saw it?
 
2012-11-08 11:09:59 AM  
I once had Seder with the Cybermens. It was a good knosh.
 
2012-11-08 11:21:28 AM  
I really wish he'd get the movie version of "Good Omens" going.
Granted, it would never be as good as the book, but he could try, couldn't he?
 
2012-11-08 11:46:40 AM  
Meh...Cybermen...Daleks....over and over and over and over and over.....

How about the Wirrn, from Tom Baker's first GREAT episode, The Ark in Space?
 
2012-11-08 01:46:58 PM  

LeoffDaGrate: 100 Watt Walrus: LeoffDaGrate: It rules out nothing. The newer Cybermen lost the Cybus logo, that's all. They've already been jumping around both time and parallel universes. Different weapons, TOTALLY different stylings, and no silly weakness to gold. They're the new-school variety.

Well, obviously they're not going to go back to the '60s-'80s style Cybermen.

I don't remember nuWho Cybermen doing any time travel. Can you refresh my memory on that? Is there any point at which it's specifically mentioned that they've time-travelled? Or are you assuming so because nuWho Cybers have shown up in Victorian times, etc.?

As for not having a weakness to gold, I don't recall them specifically coming into contact with gold - at least not the ones I'm presuming to be Mondas Cybers. The Pete's World Cybers may have, as RTD was trying to clearly establish that his Cybers were not old-school Cybers, but not those in "A Good Man Goes to War" or "Closing Time."


You're trying to make things "fit" with the vaguest of information. There's no indication that these are old-school Cybermen

Time Travel theories and examples:
"Army of Ghosts" Cybermen traveled through the void to a parallel universe, but no limitations are given as to what time period they can deposit themselves in, like much the Void Ship.
"The Next Doctor". Yes, Cybermen in Victorian times.
"The Pandorica Opens" Cybermen guard the Pandorica for hundreds, perhaps thousands of years.
"A Good Man goes to War" Cybermen in the future. Possibly from simple linear progression, possibly from time travel. No way to know, not addressed.

No contact with gold does not equal weakness for gold. Besides, if gold WAS a weakness, and they were old school, sooner or later the Doctor would have used it somehow as a plot point to help push the notion that these were old-schoolers.

Nowhere in any interviews or the episodes themselves have RTD, SM, or any other writers or producers mentioned Mondas, "old school" Cybermen, or ...


It seems to me you're trying even hard to make things fit your view:

"Army of Ghosts" has Cybermen traveling from present-day Pete's World to present-day here. There has never, ever been even a hint that travel between those to worlds could also include time travel.

I do not recall - and apparently neither do you - any indication that the Cybermen time-travelled to any of the periods in any of the stories you mentioned. In fact, in the entire canonical history of "Doctor Who" (this doesn't include comics, audio books, etc.) I can recall only one occasion in which the Cybermen time-traveled of their own accord - the Colin Baker adventure "Attack of the Cybermen" - and in that story they stole a time machine.

You can't say things that haven't happened or haven't been said are evidence that you're theory is correct - especially when pointing to things that haven't been said or demonstrated is the entire basis of your argument that my theory is wrong.

So unless you can point to some story where it's said that the Cybermen have the ability to time-travel, I'm sticking to the theory that Cybers seen in any era prior to 2007 ("Rise of the Cybermen") are Mondas Cybermen.


However, I will grant that damn near everybody the Doctor has ever beaten turns up in Roman times during "The Pandorica Opens," whether they've been mentioned as time-travelers or not (e.g., the Zygons), so either every villain race in the universe can time travel at some point in their existence (and hold a grudge for a very long time) or a bunch of them hitched a ride with those who can. Personally, I'd lean toward the latter.
 
2012-11-08 02:10:31 PM  

phaseolus: AverageAmericanGuy: I'm about 100 pages into American Gods. Except for one foray into a historical narrative, the story has been pure tedium. I hope it gets better.


In my opinion there's no shame in setting aside a book you just can't get into. I loved American Gods from the beginning, but everyone's mileage varies.


Galactica Actual: I wish Neil Gaiman would write more novels. I also miss the days when his blog was about something other than Amanda Palmer's gigs. I'm very pleased for him that he's happily married and working on projects that interest him, but as a fan I grow weary of his new career, Dr. Who writer/Amanda Palmer press agent and backup singer.


When I started reading his stuff shortly before Anansi Boys came out, he was the opposite -- it seemed like almost every month he either released something big or announced he was working on something huge. Novels, screenplays, short story collections, he had a lot going on. And being exactly his age myself (to the day, in fact) with a family of my own and a sometimes-busy work schedule, I couldn't see how he could continue along that path and stay healthy and sane.

So I sent him several messages on his website-messagey-thingy suggesting that he slow the fark down, wrap up current projects and take a sabbatical for a year or three, spend some quality time with his family and loved ones, that he doesn't owe us anything at all... and that's almost exactly what he's proceeded to do. So you can blame me.

(I shouldn't really be so conceited to think that I gave him the idea. He had to be thinking along similar lines all on his own.)


Sadly, Anansi Boys was about the last thing he wrote that I gave a crap about (Though his Doctor Who was really good, but I meant novelwise). His kids books are not that great, though clearly likes that kind of thing more. And I could not give less of a damn about Amanda Palmer if I tried. So I think I'm cooling on Gaiman, interest-wise.
 
2012-11-08 02:14:51 PM  

lake_huron:
Replace the lot of 'em, writers, actors, the whole bit. Revisit some old unused villains -- Ice Warriors a good start, Zygons maybe (they keep mentioning them).


I would love for the series to go back to the old structure of one producer working with one script editor. RTD was a great show-runner but a (mostly) crap writer, and the Moff was a great writer up to the end of Matt Smith's first season, but as a show-runner he really hasn't had one solid series of great episodes. I think if we had RTD producing and the Moff story-editing, we would have some of the best seasons of Who right up there with the Hinchcliffe/Holmes and Letts/Dicks seasons.

What happened to K9 now that poor Ms Sladen died? How did the series end, I never saw it?

I've not seen the final season of SJA, but K9 went with her son Luke when he went off to college.
 
2012-11-08 02:46:28 PM  
ok look, it doesn't matter if they are mondas cybermen or cybus cybermen or cybermen from tennant's arsecrack.

The whole point of Cybermen, as a who 'monster' is to explore themes of humanity and dehumanization through technology. This is highlighted in the cybus version with the emotion control chip as their primary weakness.

In the hands of a clumsy writer or director, you can get some pretty bad stories. I am very curious to see what Neil Gaiman can do.
 
2012-11-08 03:42:20 PM  

Mechdemon: ok look, it doesn't matter if they are mondas cybermen or cybus cybermen or cybermen from tennant's arsecrack.

The whole point of Cybermen, as a who 'monster' is to explore themes of humanity and dehumanization through technology. This is highlighted in the cybus version with the emotion control chip as their primary weakness.

In the hands of a clumsy writer or director, you can get some pretty bad stories. I am very curious to see what Neil Gaiman can do.


Waaay back in the '80s, in the "Doctor Who Monthly" magazine, there was a serialized comic about a Cyberman who somehow (having basically been made almost entirely of machine, not an assimilant,) had somehow still managed to become sentient with full emotions and reason. It chronicled his search for meaning, a la Jonathan Livingston Seagull. I'd like to see something like that again, versus the menace of the rest of the flock wanting to "undo" him.

ristst: How about the Wirrn, from Tom Baker's first GREAT episode, The Ark in Space?


It would be a good one-off; not much room for an on-going threat, or surely the rest of the 'verse would show up and say "time to do some house cleaning".

You know who almost never gets airtime and needs to come back? The Rutans. All this time we've had some more or less adequate Sontaran episodes, but have the Rutans ever seen the light of day since that one awful Baker episode at the lighthouse, with Teela? C'mon now, the shape-shifting jellyfish need some more action.
 
2012-11-08 03:43:38 PM  

phaseolus: AverageAmericanGuy: I'm about 100 pages into American Gods. Except for one foray into a historical narrative, the story has been pure tedium. I hope it gets better.


In my opinion there's no shame in setting aside a book you just can't get into. I loved American Gods from the beginning, but everyone's mileage varies.


I'll make the push through. The last few pages I read were the carousel scene, so the story does seem to be getting to some sort of actual point, and that's what I was hoping all along.

It's stuff like the coin flipping and checkers playing and random droning about minutia that I find tedious. When he's actually telling a story, like how the European woman migrated to America, Gaiman doesn't seem half bad.
 
2012-11-08 05:34:01 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: It's stuff like the coin flipping and checkers playing and random droning about minutia that I find tedious. When he's actually telling a story, like how the European woman migrated to America, Gaiman doesn't seem half bad.


Most of that minutiae is actually fairly important plot detail.
 
2012-11-08 05:42:58 PM  
Remember Daveigh Chase? Little girl from Donnie Darko?

images.starpulse.com

Turns out, she didn't grow up that bad

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-11-08 05:43:33 PM  
Dammit, wrong thread.
 
2012-11-08 06:40:29 PM  
thespindrifter: ...have the Rutans ever seen the light of day since that one awful Baker episode at the lighthouse, with Teela?

was unaware there was a Doctor Who/He-Man crossover. ;)

and, dude, "Horror of Fang Rock" was a classic! Especially since it was written almost last minute because that slot was originally meant for "State of Decay", but the BBC pulled it because they were doing a "prestige" production of Dracula at that time and didn't want Doctor Who to "make fun of vampires".
 
2012-11-08 07:43:52 PM  
Heres hoping the show improves with a new companion on board. I haven't outright hated the last fewseasons, but I've really not been happy with the slow mutation into "The Amy Pond Show".

I. M. Foreman:

and, dude, "Horror of Fang Rock" was a classic! Especially since it was written almost last minute because that slot was originally meant for "State of Decay", but the BBC pulled it because they were doing a "prestige" production of Dracula at that time and didn't want Doctor Who to "make fun of vampires".



This. That was one of Tom's better stories, just before the plunge into silliness because the show was getting too violent.
 
2012-11-08 08:00:54 PM  

thespindrifter: There has to be a way to incorporate some of the terrifying uniformity and death-like, blank, expressionless faces from the very first through the '70's era Cybers, but still make it modern. Even some of the "guts shots" from that one Colin Baker episode had a chilling effect on me as a teenager, as they were converting some poor soul into one. If they can go back to capturing the essence of the dehumanifying, but shed the utter uselessness, silliness, and cheesiness of the "modern" Cybermen, but bring back the understated threatening, and MAKE THE DAMNED THINGS MOVE, then we'd finally have a "new" villain worth keeping. For crying out loud, they're supposed to be superior!! The advanced tech should make them FASTER, stronger, smarter, and generally edgier enough to make them an actual threat. If one were to re-introduce the "gold plates/blocks their respiration" weakness, do it in a way that makes it damned difficult to do, so much so that you wind up with a lot of up-close and personal battles with physical action, and more tragic 'Adric' moments. This shouldn't be hard to do, since so many of the Doctor's companions die for him.


Looks like there has been a sighting of the new Cybermen and they've been redesigned. There aren't any photos yet, but there is a rough sketch.
 
2012-11-08 08:05:34 PM  

LeoffDaGrate: It's very nice to think that the old school menace is back, but it's not, it's next gen, parallel-universe-originated model, like it or not.


Actually, Steven Moffat has said in interviews, and the Brilliant Book of Doctor Who 2012 both say that the Cybermen seen in and since series 5 have been Mondas Cybermen -- they just haven't been redesigned due to budget reasons.

However, they're filming the episode now and it seems they have been redesigned for the Gaiman story, with a look influenced by the 60s designs.
 
2012-11-08 08:08:21 PM  

thespindrifter: You know who almost never gets airtime and needs to come back? The Rutans. All this time we've had some more or less adequate Sontaran episodes, but have the Rutans ever seen the light of day since that one awful Baker episode at the lighthouse, with Teela? C'mon now, the shape-shifting jellyfish need some more action.


notsureifserious.jpg
 
2012-11-09 01:01:11 AM  

Galactica Actual: I wish Neil Gaiman would write more novels. I also miss the days when his blog was about something other than Amanda Palmer's gigs. I'm very pleased for him that he's happily married and working on projects that interest him, but as a fan I grow weary of his new career, Dr. Who writer/Amanda Palmer press agent and backup singer.


I share your frustration. Gaiman seems the stereotypical "creative type"--like the brooding speech & theater majors you could always spot on campus from a mile away. He's comfy enough where he can just write what he wants, when he wants. I'm sure he's got stacks of notes lying all around his house, jammed in drawers, used as bookmarks, and stuck to his beehives in the backyard that he'll eventually get to. And when he does, it'll be wonderful.

Remember, he once wrote an essay entitled, "George R.R. Martin is Not Your biatch". Gaiman will publish something when he feels like it. Or maybe he needs to collaborate again. Someone made this representation of the work involved w/Good Omens and Gaiman doesn't disagree:

whatzinaname.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-10 03:14:07 AM  
Well, here's what the new Cybermen look like. Not totally dissimilar to the Pete's World design, but different. Will have to see them on screen to decide what I think.

25.media.tumblr.com

There's a few more photos if you follow the link.
 
2012-11-10 03:55:09 AM  

pseudowho: Well, here's what the new Cybermen look like. Not totally dissimilar to the Pete's World design, but different. Will have to see them on screen to decide what I think.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 850x683]

There's a few more photos if you follow the link.


To me it honestly looks like they took some surplus Iron Man armor, painted it silver, and glued on some Cyberman handles to the head. It probably will look pretty good on screen, but you can REALLY see the Iron Man influence in the design, where the Pete's World versions looked more Iron Giant.
 
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