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(Some Guy)   Investors consider the implications of last night's elections: Will Congress be able to avoid the fiscal cliff? Will tax rates go up? Is a going heavy into light bulb manufacturers a smart play given the coming 1,000 years of darkness?   (investmentnews.com) divider line 143
    More: Interesting, congresses, tax rates, investment advisors, decisive victory, light bulbs, manufacturers, Obama administration, certainty  
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881 clicks; posted to Business » on 07 Nov 2012 at 12:55 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-07 10:38:21 AM
the question of if tax rates are going up was decided yesterday. If you die after 1.1.13, the estate taxes are going from 0% to 55%, if you qualify. The payroll tax is going to expire. Bush tax cuts are going to expire. If you pay income taxes in the past, your rate will go up. If you are one of the 47%, you might have to start paying income taxes.
 
2012-11-07 10:42:18 AM
At something like 8 PM last night Boehner was already saying no new taxes. Expect the automatic cuts to happen. The GOP will not budge.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-11-07 11:34:18 AM

EnviroDude: the question of if tax rates are going up was decided yesterday. If you die after 1.1.13, the estate taxes are going from 0% to 55%, if you qualify. The payroll tax is going to expire. Bush tax cuts are going to expire. If you pay income taxes in the past, your rate will go up. If you are one of the 47%, you might have to start paying income taxes.


Good. Exactly what I want.
 
2012-11-07 11:50:35 AM

EnviroDude: the question of if tax rates are going up was decided yesterday. If you die after 1.1.13, the estate taxes are going from 0% to 55%, if you qualify. The payroll tax is going to expire. Bush tax cuts are going to expire. If you pay income taxes in the past, your rate will go up. If you are one of the 47%, you might have to start paying income taxes.


That'll work for me. Do me a fave, sweetie, and when you mention estate taxes, always remind your reader that they apply to only 1 out of every 166 people. Or, if you like percentages, 0.6% of people who die in a given year have ANY estate tax levied, and that's after exempting the first FIVE MILLION dollars of their estate.
 
2012-11-07 12:00:53 PM

EnviroDude: the question of if tax rates are going up was decided yesterday. If you die after 1.1.13, the estate taxes are going from 0% to 55%, if you qualify. The payroll tax is going to expire. Bush tax cuts are going to expire. If you pay income taxes in the past, your rate will go up. If you are one of the 47%, you might have to start paying income taxes.


isn't that what the right wanted, for poor people to pay taxes?
 
2012-11-07 12:03:37 PM

ManateeGag: EnviroDude: the question of if tax rates are going up was decided yesterday. If you die after 1.1.13, the estate taxes are going from 0% to 55%, if you qualify. The payroll tax is going to expire. Bush tax cuts are going to expire. If you pay income taxes in the past, your rate will go up. If you are one of the 47%, you might have to start paying income taxes.

isn't that what the right wanted, for poor people to pay taxes?


Not while making anyone else pay them though. Oh, and there's no reason to believe the last will happen. Everything else will, and in every way that is good for the country because that will shrink the budget deficit quite a bit.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-11-07 12:30:36 PM

ManateeGag: EnviroDude: the question of if tax rates are going up was decided yesterday. If you die after 1.1.13, the estate taxes are going from 0% to 55%, if you qualify. The payroll tax is going to expire. Bush tax cuts are going to expire. If you pay income taxes in the past, your rate will go up. If you are one of the 47%, you might have to start paying income taxes.

isn't that what the right wanted, for poor people to pay taxes?


Yes, ONLY poor people.
 
2012-11-07 12:54:45 PM

ManateeGag: EnviroDude: the question of if tax rates are going up was decided yesterday. If you die after 1.1.13, the estate taxes are going from 0% to 55%, if you qualify. The payroll tax is going to expire. Bush tax cuts are going to expire. If you pay income taxes in the past, your rate will go up. If you are one of the 47%, you might have to start paying income taxes.

isn't that what the right wanted, for poor people to pay taxes?


Its what Obama wants.
 
2012-11-07 12:57:05 PM

EnviroDude: the question of if tax rates are going up was decided yesterday. If you die after 1.1.13, the estate taxes are going from 0% to 55%


So you're saying if someone is old and rich, he should kill himself now or the good of his children?
 
2012-11-07 12:57:53 PM
They're going to ban the incandescent bulbs that I like. LIBS!!!!!

/actually don't mind cfls though they don't seem to last as long as advertised
 
2012-11-07 01:01:23 PM

wxboy: EnviroDude: the question of if tax rates are going up was decided yesterday. If you die after 1.1.13, the estate taxes are going from 0% to 55%

So you're saying if someone is old and rich, he should kill himself now or the good of his children?


Gifting limits have been removed for 2012, so you could just gift it to them tax free instead of killing yourself. That might be a little easier.
 
2012-11-07 01:02:39 PM
COME ON FISCAL CLIFF
 
2012-11-07 01:04:08 PM
if I was President Obama i'd be busy having henchmen rounding up people like Rmoney, Chuck Norris' wife & Clint Eastwood and make them leave. tell them their America privileges have been canceled.

/call me President ITG
 
2012-11-07 01:15:26 PM

ManateeGag: EnviroDude: the question of if tax rates are going up was decided yesterday. If you die after 1.1.13, the estate taxes are going from 0% to 55%, if you qualify. The payroll tax is going to expire. Bush tax cuts are going to expire. If you pay income taxes in the past, your rate will go up. If you are one of the 47%, you might have to start paying income taxes.

isn't that what the right wanted, for poor people to pay taxes?


Yes. It would be a good thing if we jumped off the fiscal cliff, at least over time. Let all the bush and Obama cuts expire. Make more people pay taxes and cut spending.

It will harm the economy in the short run, so maybe it should be a phased approach (1/3 or 1/2 of the cuts expire per year), but we just had an election. Obama's not running again. He has the luxury now to say the buck stops here- lets ALL sacrifice to fix the fiscal situation before its too late. He's the only one who can do it (Nixon to china), and the hope that he may was one of the reasons he got my vote again.

In all likelyhood, we'll just kick the can down the road another year.
 
2012-11-07 01:16:38 PM

KrispyKritter: if I was President Obama i'd be busy having henchmen rounding up people like Rmoney, Chuck Norris' wife & Clint Eastwood and make them leave. tell them their America privileges have been canceled.

/call me President ITG


Really? For what speaking their mind?
It's too early for Stalin like additudes.
 
2012-11-07 01:18:05 PM

dahmers love zombie: That'll work for me. Do me a fave, sweetie, and when you mention estate taxes, always remind your reader that they apply to only 1 out of every 166 people. Or, if you like percentages, 0.6% of people who die in a given year have ANY estate tax levied, and that's after exempting the first FIVE MILLION dollars of their estate.


I read recently that part of this whole thing would result in the estate tax exemption being cut to about a million dollars, which I'm sure sounds nice to everyone, but would really put a crimp in a lot of not-really-that-rich-people's styles.
 
2012-11-07 01:20:31 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: It will harm the economy in the short run, so maybe it should be a phased approach (1/3 or 1/2 of the cuts expire per year), but we just had an election. Obama's not running again. He has the luxury now to say the buck stops here- lets ALL sacrifice to fix the fiscal situation before its too late. He's the only one who can do it (Nixon to china), and the hope that he may was one of the reasons he got my vote again.


Obama's not running again, but Democrats and Republicans will go at it again in 2016 and I'm sure Obama would rather see President Hillary Clinton (or Tim Kaine or Cory Booker or Deval Patrick) than President Rick Santorum (or Jeb Bush or Chris Christie or Marco Rubio). He wants to do what's best for the county, but he doesn't want to see the shiat hit the fan to do it.
 
2012-11-07 01:24:04 PM

dahmers love zombie: EnviroDude: the question of if tax rates are going up was decided yesterday. If you die after 1.1.13, the estate taxes are going from 0% to 55%, if you qualify. The payroll tax is going to expire. Bush tax cuts are going to expire. If you pay income taxes in the past, your rate will go up. If you are one of the 47%, you might have to start paying income taxes.

That'll work for me. Do me a fave, sweetie, and when you mention estate taxes, always remind your reader that they apply to only 1 out of every 166 people. Or, if you like percentages, 0.6% of people who die in a given year have ANY estate tax levied, and that's after exempting the first FIVE MILLION dollars of their estate.


Ah, so because they affect only a small minority of individuals, we shouldn't worry about whether it's fair or appropriate. I feel the same way when people bring up problems in the Native American population. They're like 1% of the total population of the US, so who cares about their issues, right?

/Tyranny of the majority is tyranny.
 
2012-11-07 01:24:35 PM

FishyFred: dahmers love zombie: That'll work for me. Do me a fave, sweetie, and when you mention estate taxes, always remind your reader that they apply to only 1 out of every 166 people. Or, if you like percentages, 0.6% of people who die in a given year have ANY estate tax levied, and that's after exempting the first FIVE MILLION dollars of their estate.

I read recently that part of this whole thing would result in the estate tax exemption being cut to about a million dollars, which I'm sure sounds nice to everyone, but would really put a crimp in a lot of not-really-that-rich-people's styles.


The problem is when parents die and leave their children small businesses or real estate. They may not have large coffers of cash. A small business may be just squeaking by during this economy; however, it may be worth 10-15 million on paper. When the parents die the kids have to come up with 5/7 million to give Uncle Sam. The only way most can do this is by having a life insurance policy of the parents that the kids or a trust pay for.

Bottom line is the estate/death tax exists because of insurance lobbyist, Think of all the millions of life insurance policy they would lose if children weren't having to by safety nets.
 
2012-11-07 01:26:26 PM

EnviroDude: the question of if tax rates are going up was decided yesterday. If you die after 1.1.13, the estate taxes are going from 0% to 55%, if you qualify. The payroll tax is going to expire. Bush tax cuts are going to expire. If you pay income taxes in the past, your rate will go up. If you are one of the 47%, you might have to start paying income taxes.


I'm pretty sure federal estate taxes are 35% right now. It was zero in 2010 only.

It will drop the exemption amount from $5.1 million to $1million, however.
 
2012-11-07 01:29:33 PM

FishyFred: Debeo Summa Credo: It will harm the economy in the short run, so maybe it should be a phased approach (1/3 or 1/2 of the cuts expire per year), but we just had an election. Obama's not running again. He has the luxury now to say the buck stops here- lets ALL sacrifice to fix the fiscal situation before its too late. He's the only one who can do it (Nixon to china), and the hope that he may was one of the reasons he got my vote again.

Obama's not running again, but Democrats and Republicans will go at it again in 2016 and I'm sure Obama would rather see President Hillary Clinton (or Tim Kaine or Cory Booker or Deval Patrick) than President Rick Santorum (or Jeb Bush or Chris Christie or Marco Rubio). He wants to do what's best for the county, but he doesn't want to see the shiat hit the fan to do it.


At some point someone has to stop kicking the can. Obama has that opportunity now. Let's hope he takes it.
 
2012-11-07 01:30:58 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: EnviroDude: the question of if tax rates are going up was decided yesterday. If you die after 1.1.13, the estate taxes are going from 0% to 55%, if you qualify. The payroll tax is going to expire. Bush tax cuts are going to expire. If you pay income taxes in the past, your rate will go up. If you are one of the 47%, you might have to start paying income taxes.

I'm pretty sure federal estate taxes are 35% right now. It was zero in 2010 only.

It will drop the exemption amount from $5.1 million to $1million, however.


Yes the estate tax relief was 2010 only. The gift tax relief is 2012.
 
2012-11-07 01:32:09 PM

KrispyKritter: if I was President Obama i'd be busy having henchmen rounding up people like Rmoney, Chuck Norris' wife & Clint Eastwood and make them leave. tell them their America privileges have been canceled.

/call me President ITG


Not long ago Ted Nugent said if Obama won again, he'd either be dead or in prison. I think he should keep his word. Though I'd prefer the dead option.
 
2012-11-07 01:35:26 PM
Raise the estate tax to 100%, since your inheritance did not lead to your success, lets all start on the same line.
 
2012-11-07 01:37:59 PM

KrispyKritter: if I was President Obama i'd be busy having henchmen rounding up people like Rmoney, Chuck Norris' wife & Clint Eastwood and make them leave. tell them their America privileges have been canceled.

/call me President ITG


You do realize we have more guns than your side. We also have most of the military on our side. Most of vets as well. And because we have more rural people than you do we're able to control the logistics of the food supply. You really should rethink that bit of fascism before we have ourselves a merry little genocide.
 
2012-11-07 01:47:44 PM
The next Dem will have both Obama and Clinton to campaign for him.

/hopes Bill makes it 4 more...
 
2012-11-07 02:01:30 PM

Heineken Skywalker: FishyFred: dahmers love zombie: That'll work for me. Do me a fave, sweetie, and when you mention estate taxes, always remind your reader that they apply to only 1 out of every 166 people. Or, if you like percentages, 0.6% of people who die in a given year have ANY estate tax levied, and that's after exempting the first FIVE MILLION dollars of their estate.

I read recently that part of this whole thing would result in the estate tax exemption being cut to about a million dollars, which I'm sure sounds nice to everyone, but would really put a crimp in a lot of not-really-that-rich-people's styles.

The problem is when parents die and leave their children small businesses or real estate. They may not have large coffers of cash. A small business may be just squeaking by during this economy; however, it may be worth 10-15 million on paper. When the parents die the kids have to come up with 5/7 million to give Uncle Sam. The only way most can do this is by having a life insurance policy of the parents that the kids or a trust pay for.

Bottom line is the estate/death tax exists because of insurance lobbyist, Think of all the millions of life insurance policy they would lose if children weren't having to by safety nets.


You have no idea how estate taxes work. First of all there is no single inheritance tax rate, there are ten tax brackets that go from between 0% for for estates under $10,000 and 35% for estates over $500,000. There is also a unified tax credit for $1,404,000 per estate. Your theoretical $15 million dollar estate would generate a gross inheritance tax of $5,212,300 minus the $1,405,000 credit for a total of $3,808,300 due, or %25 of the estate.

If the value of the company really is $15 million, they should be able to secure a line of credit to pay the tax bill.
 
2012-11-07 02:02:01 PM

Kanemano: Raise the estate tax to 100%, since your inheritance did not lead to your success, lets all start on the same line.


I doubt you are serious or anything close to it but there are some very real problems with an estate tax, particularly if the threshold is dropped to 1mil. Think about farmers with a ton of land, expensive farm equipment and a house running their own farm. They easily could be worth a few million but have very little in terms of actual cash, they die, leaving the farm to their children who have been working on the farm their whole lives and suddenly they have to pay the government 500k of money they don't have....

This needs to be addressed properly, but it won't be.
 
2012-11-07 02:02:37 PM
Obama win means uncertainty the only certainty, advisers say

As opposed to all of those other times when the market has certainty.

These people get paid for this.
 
2012-11-07 02:06:00 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: /Tyranny of the majority is tyranny.


LOL. I do so enjoy the butthurt. We're being forced to participate in the society that gave us our position by paying slightly more in taxes! TYRANNY!
 
2012-11-07 02:12:46 PM

Smeggy Smurf: You do realize we have more guns than your side. We also have most of the military on our side. Most of vets as well. And because we have more rural people than you do we're able to control the logistics of the food supply.



How will you be able to get your Cheetos? You really haven't thought this very far out yourself.
 
2012-11-07 02:14:28 PM

EnviroDude: the question of if tax rates are going up was decided yesterday. If you die after 1.1.13, the estate taxes are going from 0% to 55%, if you qualify. The payroll tax is going to expire. Bush tax cuts are going to expire. If you pay income taxes in the past, your rate will go up. If you are one of the 47%, you might have to start paying income taxes.


We'll see about middle class income taxes, but I am fine with mine going up. No serious person is saying we can reduce the deficit without raising taxes. No one wants to cut defense, and you can't cut SS or Medicare enough to either make a difference or not harm those who actually need the program.
 
2012-11-07 02:16:41 PM

max_pooper: they should be able to secure a line of credit to pay the tax bill.


Yes banks are lining up to issue $4 million line of credit on top of existing operating lines of credit. So they can pay a tax that shouldn't exist
 
2012-11-07 02:18:02 PM

Smeggy Smurf: KrispyKritter: if I was President Obama i'd be busy having henchmen rounding up people like Rmoney, Chuck Norris' wife & Clint Eastwood and make them leave. tell them their America privileges have been canceled.

/call me President ITG

You do realize we have more guns than your side. We also have most of the military on our side. Most of vets as well. And because we have more rural people than you do we're able to control the logistics of the food supply. You really should rethink that bit of fascism before we have ourselves a merry little genocide.


The military will be on the opposite side of whoever decides to rise up against the US Government. That much is ensured. If two groups battle each other, the military will put them BOTH down. It's the way it works.

Don't try to rural vs. urban this out. It didn't work for the Confederacy and it won't work here.
 
2012-11-07 02:21:06 PM

Smeggy Smurf: KrispyKritter: if I was President Obama i'd be busy having henchmen rounding up people like Rmoney, Chuck Norris' wife & Clint Eastwood and make them leave. tell them their America privileges have been canceled.

/call me President ITG

You do realize we have more guns than your side. We also have most of the military on our side. Most of vets as well. And because we have more rural people than you do we're able to control the logistics of the food supply. You really should rethink that bit of fascism before we have ourselves a merry little genocide.


While rounding them up and throwing them out is ridiculous, your points are some of the dumbest I've ever seen.
 
2012-11-07 02:21:09 PM

ghall3: Kanemano: Raise the estate tax to 100%, since your inheritance did not lead to your success, lets all start on the same line.

I doubt you are serious or anything close to it but there are some very real problems with an estate tax, particularly if the threshold is dropped to 1mil. Think about farmers with a ton of land, expensive farm equipment and a house running their own farm. They easily could be worth a few million but have very little in terms of actual cash, they die, leaving the farm to their children who have been working on the farm their whole lives and suddenly they have to pay the government 500k of money they don't have....

This needs to be addressed properly, but it won't be.


And this is why the farm needs to be corporately owned instead of simply owned by mom and dad. If you want to preserve some sort of legacy, corporatize...
 
2012-11-07 02:22:40 PM

Heineken Skywalker: max_pooper: they should be able to secure a line of credit to pay the tax bill.

Yes banks are lining up to issue $4 million line of credit on top of existing operating lines of credit. So they can pay a tax that shouldn't exist


You're, banks only approve loan that are paying for expenses that should exist.

\Dumbass
 
2012-11-07 02:23:57 PM

max_pooper: Heineken Skywalker: max_pooper: they should be able to secure a line of credit to pay the tax bill.

Yes banks are lining up to issue $4 million line of credit on top of existing operating lines of credit. So they can pay a tax that shouldn't exist

You're right, banks only approve loan that are paying for expenses that should exist.

\Dumbass


Snark got lost in the "did not preview" error...
 
2012-11-07 02:25:19 PM
Obama owns the economy now.
 
2012-11-07 02:25:59 PM

Elzar: And this is why the farm needs to be corporately owned instead of simply owned by mom and dad. If you want to preserve some sort of legacy, corporatize


Wouldn't Mom and Dad still own the stocks for the corp?. And the kids would be taxed when the inherited them.
 
2012-11-07 02:26:46 PM

Elzar: And this is why the farm needs to be corporately owned instead of simply owned by mom and dad. If you want to preserve some sort of legacy, corporatize...


Jesus, this. It takes a few thousand dollars, tops, to become "JoeBob's Acres, LLC". I don't know any farmer/rancher around here who didn't do that years age. If you are simply too intransigent to do that, then, yeah, you're boned.
 
2012-11-07 02:27:24 PM

EnviroDude: isn't that what the right wanted, for poor people to pay taxes?

Its what Obama wants.


How much training does it take to, on a dime, start believing the exact opposite of what you professed for years without causing your brain serious injury?
 
2012-11-07 02:36:33 PM

max_pooper: max_pooper: Heineken Skywalker: max_pooper: they should be able to secure a line of credit to pay the tax bill.

Yes banks are lining up to issue $4 million line of credit on top of existing operating lines of credit. So they can pay a tax that shouldn't exist

You're right, banks only approve loan that are paying for expenses that should exist.

\Dumbass

Snark got lost in the "did not preview" error...


My point was in today's economy with banks drastically cutting companies operation credit lines, you might be hard pressed to find a bank to loan money to a to pay the taxes, especially if they are maxed on credit to already to keep the doors open. Whether the tax is fair or not is irrelevant.
 
2012-11-07 02:44:10 PM

max_pooper: Your theoretical $15 million dollar estate would generate a gross inheritance tax of $5,212,300 minus the $1,405,000 credit for a total of $3,808,300 due, or %25 of the estate.

If the value of the company really is $15 million, they should be able to secure a line of credit to pay the tax bill.


Very few companies could survive taking on that much debt with no hope of increasing revenue because of it.
 
2012-11-07 02:47:38 PM

Heineken Skywalker: max_pooper: max_pooper: Heineken Skywalker: max_pooper: they should be able to secure a line of credit to pay the tax bill.

Yes banks are lining up to issue $4 million line of credit on top of existing operating lines of credit. So they can pay a tax that shouldn't exist

You're right, banks only approve loan that are paying for expenses that should exist.

\Dumbass

Snark got lost in the "did not preview" error...

My point was in today's economy with banks drastically cutting companies operation credit lines, you might be hard pressed to find a bank to loan money to a to pay the taxes, especially if they are maxed on credit to already to keep the doors open. Whether the tax is fair or not is irrelevant.


If the imaginary company is "maxed out on credit just to keep the doors open" then the company is not really as valuable as you claim. A company with $15 millions dollars in assets with $15 million dollars in debt is worth zero dollars. If it was passed through an estate it would trigger an estate tax of zero dollars.
 
2012-11-07 02:49:01 PM

GoldSpider: EnviroDude: isn't that what the right wanted, for poor people to pay taxes?

Its what Obama wants.

How much training does it take to, on a dime, start believing the exact opposite of what you professed for years without causing your brain serious injury?


It is actually remarkably easy. Provided you have no brain in the first place. Like EnviroDude.

/I'm saying that guy is dumb
//Count-to-potato dumb
 
2012-11-07 02:55:25 PM

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: GoldSpider: EnviroDude: isn't that what the right wanted, for poor people to pay taxes?

Its what Obama wants.

How much training does it take to, on a dime, start believing the exact opposite of what you professed for years without causing your brain serious injury?

It is actually remarkably easy. Provided you have no brain in the first place. Like EnviroDude.

/I'm saying that guy is dumb
//Count-to-potato dumb


Somebody should make a photoshop of Scarecrow from Wizard of Oz with "Deep Thoughs by EnviroDude" plastered across.
 
2012-11-07 02:55:50 PM

max_pooper: If the imaginary company is "maxed out on credit just to keep the doors open" then the company is not really as valuable as you claim. A company with $15 millions dollars in assets with $15 million dollars in debt is worth zero dollars. If it was passed through an estate it would trigger an estate tax of zero dollars.


If the company has a $5 mill line of credit for operational use, and it's worth $15 mill the banks not gonna shell out another $4 mill to cover the taxes. Having a $5 Mill operation line doesn't mean they owe $5 mill it just means they can borrow that money. The banks not gonna up them to $9 mill. How they hell are they supposed to just absorb a $4 mill tax, it would be certain death for most companies. Especially those running on razor line margins trying to survive.
 
2012-11-07 02:57:31 PM

SlothB77: Obama owns the economy now.


So you're finally going to give him credit for turning around the ugly jobs numbers that his administration was handed on day one?

reflectionsofarationalrepublican.files.wordpress.com 

Cool. It's about time you started being honest.
 
2012-11-07 03:04:38 PM

Heineken Skywalker: max_pooper: If the imaginary company is "maxed out on credit just to keep the doors open" then the company is not really as valuable as you claim. A company with $15 millions dollars in assets with $15 million dollars in debt is worth zero dollars. If it was passed through an estate it would trigger an estate tax of zero dollars.

If the company has a $5 mill line of credit for operational use, and it's worth $15 mill the banks not gonna shell out another $4 mill to cover the taxes. Having a $5 Mill operation line doesn't mean they owe $5 mill it just means they can borrow that money. The banks not gonna up them to $9 mill. How they hell are they supposed to just absorb a $4 mill tax, it would be certain death for most companies. Especially those running on razor line margins trying to survive.


The loan would not be taken out by the company it would be taken out be the inheritor. The inheritor, who now owns the company, could use the company's hard assets as collateral for a loan. If the company is doing as bad as you claim it would be valued no greater than the hard assets, so $15 million would be real estate, equipment, intellectual property ext. A bank would have no problem issuing a loan with proven assets of 4 times the value of the loan.
 
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